This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Complete Transcript Of Assange Guardian Livechat (And Possibly His Last Pre-Arrest)

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Earlier today, record interest in what could be Julian Assange's last live chat crashed the Guardian's entire website (which is the 16th top ranked site in Britain on a regular day getting tens of millions of hits). To be sure, the Guardian's exhaustive coverage of Assange's travails have paid off in droves, and as the Alexa chart below shows, the site's rank has surged as ad revenues have exploded. We hope the Guardian is keeping at least some of the proceeds in escrow for the soon to be created "Free Julian" fund. And while a boredom-intolerant world awaits news of the Wikileaks creator's arrest, below is a complete transcript of what could be his last live interview before captivity.

But first, the Guardian's traffic spike since the whoe Cablegate affair:

Full transcript from the Guardian.

Fwoggie
I'll start the ball rolling with a question.
You're an Australian passport holder - would you want return to your own
country or is this now out of the question due to potentially being
arrested on arrival for releasing cables relating to Australian
diplomats and polices?


Julian Assange small

Julian Assange:
I
am an Australian citizen and I miss my country a great deal. However,
during the last weeks the Australian prime minister, Julia Gillard, and
the attorney general, Robert McClelland, have made it clear that not
only is my return is impossible but that they are actively working to
assist the United States government in its attacks on myself and our
people. This brings into question what does it mean to be an Australian
citizen - does that mean anything at all? Or are we all to be treated
like David Hicks at the first possible opportunity merely so that
Australian politicians and diplomats can be invited to the best US
embassy cocktail parties.

girish89
How do you think you have changed world affairs?
And if you call all the attention you've been given-credit ... shouldn't the mole or source receive a word of praise from you?


Julian Assange small

Julian Assange:
For the past four years one of
our goals has been to lionise the source who take the real risks in
nearly every journalistic disclosure and without whose efforts,
journalists would be nothing. If indeed it is the case, as alleged by
the Pentagon, that the young soldier - Bradley Manning - is behind some
of our recent disclosures, then he is without doubt an unparalleled
hero.

Daithi
Have you released, or will you
release, cables (either in the last few days or with the Afghan and Iraq
war logs) with the names of Afghan informants or anything else like so?
Are you willing to censor (sorry for using the term) any names that you feel might land people in danger from reprisals??
By the way, I think history will absolve you. Well done!!!


Julian Assange small

Julian Assange:
WikiLeaks
has a four-year publishing history. During that time there has been no
credible allegation, even by organisations like the Pentagon that even a
single person has come to harm as a result of our activities. This is
despite much-attempted manipulation and spin trying to lead people to a
counter-factual conclusion. We do not expect any change in this regard.

distrot
The
State Dept is mulling over the issue of whether you are a journalist or
not. Are you a journalist? As far as delivering information that
someone [anyone] does not want seen is concerned, does it matter if you
are a 'journalist' or not?


Julian Assange small

Julian Assange:
I coauthored my first nonfiction
book by the time I was 25. I have been involved in nonfiction
documentaries, newspapers, TV and internet since that time. However, it
is not necessary to debate whether I am a journalist, or how our people
mysteriously are alleged to cease to be journalists when they start
writing for our organisaiton. Although I still write, research and
investigate my role is primarily that of a publisher and editor-in-chief
who organises and directs other journalists.

achanth
Mr Assange,
have there ever been documents forwarded to you which deal with the topic of UFOs or extraterrestrials?


Julian Assange small

Julian Assange:
Many weirdos email us about UFOs
or how they discovered that they were the anti-christ whilst talking
with their ex-wife at a garden party over a pot-plant. However, as yet
they have not satisfied two of our publishing rules.
1) that the documents not be self-authored;
2) that they be original.
However, it is worth noting that in yet-to-be-published parts of the cablegate archive there are indeed references to UFOs.

gnosticheresy
What
happened to all the other documents that were on Wikileaks prior to
these series of "megaleaks"? Will you put them back online at some stage
("technical difficulties" permitting)?


Julian Assange small

Julian Assange:
Many of these are still available
at mirror.wikileaks.info and the rest will be returning as soon as we
can find a moment to do address the engineering complexities. Since
April of this year our timetable has not been our own, rather it has
been one that has centred on the moves of abusive elements of the United
States government against us. But rest assured I am deeply unhappy that
the three-and-a-half years of my work and others is not easily
available or searchable by the general public.

CrisShutlar
Have you expected this level of impact all over the world? Do you fear for your security?


Julian Assange small

Julian Assange:
I always believed that WikiLeaks
as a concept would perform a global role and to some degree it was clear
that is was doing that as far back as 2007 when it changed the result
of the Kenyan general election. I thought it would take two years
instead of four to be recognised by others as having this important
role, so we are still a little behind schedule and have much more work
to do. The threats against our lives are a matter of public record,
however, we are taking the appropriate precautions to the degree that we
are able when dealing with a super power.

JAnthony
Julian.
I
am a former British diplomat. In the course of my former duties I
helped to coordinate multilateral action against a brutal regime in the
Balkans, impose sanctions on a renegade state threatening ethnic
cleansing, and negotiate a debt relief programme for an impoverished
nation. None of this would have been possible without the security and
secrecy of diplomatic correspondence, and the protection of that
correspondence from publication under the laws of the UK and many other
liberal and democratic states. An embassy which cannot securely offer
advice or pass messages back to London is an embassy which cannot
operate. Diplomacy cannot operate without discretion and the
protection of sources. This applies to the UK and the UN as much as the US.
In
publishing this massive volume of correspondence, Wikileaks is not
highlighting specific cases of wrongdoing but undermining the entire
process of diplomacy. If you can publish US cables then you can publish
UK telegrams and UN emails.
My question to you is: why should we not
hold you personally responsible when next an international crisis goes
unresolved because diplomats cannot function.


Julian Assange small

Julian Assange:
If you trim the vast editorial letter to the singular question actually asked, I would be happy to give it my attention.

cargun
Mr Assange,
Can
you explain the censorship of identities as XXXXX's in the revealed
cables? Some critical identities are left as is, whereas some are
XXXXX'd. Some cables are partially revealed. Who can make such critical
decisons, but the US gov't? As far as we know your request for such help
was rejected by the State department. Also is there an order in the
release of cable or are they randomly selected?
Thank you.


Julian Assange small

Julian Assange:
The cables we have release
correspond to stories released by our main stream media partners and
ourselves. They have been redacted by the journalists working on the
stories, as these people must know the material well in order to write
about it. The redactions are then reviewed by at least one other
journalist or editor, and we review samples supplied by the other
organisations to make sure the process is working.

rszopa
Annoying
as it may be, the DDoS seems to be good publicity (if anything, it adds
to your credibility). So is getting kicked out of AWS. Do you agree
with this statement? Were you planning for it?
Thank you for doing what you are doing.


Julian Assange small

Julian Assange:
Since 2007 we have been
deliberately placing some of our servers in jurisdictions that we
suspected suffered a free speech deficit inorder to separate rhetoric
from reality. Amazon was one of these cases.

abbeherrera
You
started something that nobody can stop. The Beginning of a New World.
Remember, that community is behind you and support you (from Slovakia).
Do you have leaks on ACTA?


Julian Assange small

Julian Assange:
Yes, we have leaks on the
Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement, a trojan horse trade agreement
designed from the very beginning to satisfy big players in the US
copyright and patent industries. In fact, it was WikiLeaks that first
drew ACTA to the public's attention - with a leak.

people1st
Tom
Flanagan, a [former] senior adviser to Canadian Prime Minister recently
stated "I think Assange should be assassinated ... I think Obama should
put out a contract ... I wouldn't feel unhappy if Assange does
disappear."
How do you feel about this?


Julian Assange small

Julian Assange:
It is correct that Mr. Flanagan
and the others seriously making these statements should be charged with
incitement to commit murder.

Isopod
Julian, why do
you think it was necessary to "give Wikileaks a face"? Don't you think
it would be better if the organization was anonymous?
This whole
debate has become very personal and reduced on you - "Julian Assange
leaked documents", "Julian Assange is a terrorist", "Julian Assange
alledgedly raped a woman", "Julian Assange should be assassinated",
"Live Q&A qith Julian Assange" etc. Nobody talks about Wikileaks as
an organization anymore. Many people don't even realize that there are
other people behind Wikileaks, too.
And this, in my opinion, makes
Wikileaks vulnerable because this enables your opponents to argue ad
hominem. If they convince the public that you're an evil, woman-raping
terrorist, then Wikileaks' credibility will be gone. Also, with due
respect for all that you've done, I think it's unfair to all the other
brave, hard working people behind Wikileaks, that you get so much
credit.


Julian Assange small

Julian Assange:
This is an interesting question. I
originally tried hard for the organisation to have no face, because I
wanted egos to play no part in our activities. This followed the
tradition of the French anonymous pure mathematians, who wrote under the
collective allonym, "The Bourbaki". However this quickly led to
tremendous distracting curiosity about who and random individuals
claiming to represent us. In the end, someone must be responsible to the
public and only a leadership that is willing to be publicly courageous
can genuinely suggest that sources take risks for the greater good. In
that process, I have become the lightening rod. I get undue attacks on
every aspect of my life, but then I also get undue credit as some kind
of balancing force.

tburgi
Western governments lay claim to moral authority in part from having legal guarantees for a free press.
Threats of legal sanction against Wikileaks and yourself seem to weaken this claim.
(What
press needs to be protected except that which is unpopular to the
State? If being state-sanctioned is the test for being a media
organization, and therefore able to claim rights to press freedom, the
situation appears to be the same in authoritarian regimes and the west.)
Do you agree that western governments risk losing moral authority by
attacking Wikileaks?
Do you believe western goverments have any moral authority to begin with?
Thanks,
Tim Burgi
Vancouver, Canada


Julian Assange small

Julian Assange:
The west has fiscalised its basic
power relationships through a web of contracts, loans, shareholdings,
bank holdings and so on. In such an environment it is easy for speech to
be "free" because a change in political will rarely leads to any change
in these basic instruments. Western speech, as something that rarely
has any effect on power, is, like badgers and birds, free. In states
like China, there is pervasive censorship, because speech still has
power and power is scared of it. We should always look at censorship as
an economic signal that reveals the potential power of speech in that
jurisdiction. The attacks against us by the US point to a great hope,
speech powerful enough to break the fiscal blockade.

rajiv1857
Hi,
Is
the game that you are caught up in winnable? Technically, can you keep
playing hide and seek with the powers that be when services and service
providers are directly or indirectly under government control or
vulnerable to pressure - like Amazon?
Also, if you get "taken out" -
and that could be technical, not necessarily physical - what are the
alternatives for your cache of material?
Is there a 'second line' of activists in place that would continue the campaign?
Is your material 'dispersed' so that taking out one cache would not necessarily mean the end of the game?


Julian Assange small

Julian Assange:
The Cable Gate archive has been
spread, along with significant material from the US and other countries
to over 100,000 people in encrypted form. If something happens to us,
the key parts will be released automatically. Further, the Cable Gate
archives is in the hands of multiple news organisations. History will
win. The world will be elevated to a better place. Will we survive? That
depends on you.


logo2

That's it every one, thanks for all your questions and
comments. Julian Assange is sorry that he can't answer every question
but he has tried to cover as much territory as possible. Thanks for your
patience with our earlier technical difficulties.

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Fri, 12/03/2010 - 14:54 | 776065 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

This brings into question what does it mean to be an Australian citizen - does that mean anything at all? Or are we all to be treated like David Hicks at the first possible opportunity merely so that Australian politicians and diplomats can be invited to the best US embassy cocktail parties.

This is a good question, yet rhetorical.  I will answer it anyway.  Julian is an Australian, and he should definately be allowed to return there. 

No questions about the bank leak release?

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:24 | 776180 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

Citizenship = voluntary slavery, damn if it was possible to live without a passport I'd throw away mine in a second

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:53 | 776284 tmosley
tmosley's picture

How is citizenship voluntary?  You can't renounce it unless you get citizenship somewhere else.  We are all just slaves (at least in name), free only to change masters (sometimes).

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:38 | 776426 Shylockracy
Shylockracy's picture

If you are already despondent about citizenship, make sure you do NOT read the following book. It may cause severe depression.

Besatzungsrecht im wiedervereinten Deutschland: Abbauprobleme und Restbestände.
Dr. Michael Rensmann

2002, Nomos Verlagsges.MBH + Co. ISBN: 3789078832

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 00:22 | 777561 caconhma
caconhma's picture

Back in 1938, the chief of the Soviet KGB in Europe defected to the USA. His name was Orlov. He was a 3-star KGB general.

FBI found about his defection many years later after he revealed it after Stalin's death. His new name was Borg, and he moved to Cleveland, OH.

KGB was very good assassinating people from ordinary defectors to heads of sates.

Orlov/Borg knew that. So, he wrote a letter to Stalin offering a deal: if my and my family lives are safe, I keep my mouth shut. Stalin accepted the deal.

After Stalin's death, he revealed himself. He even testified in front of the USA Congress but he never revealed any info about Soviet spies in the USA  or in Europe.

He knew the entire KGB spy-net in the USA including all nuclear spies as well as the famous Cambridge 5 in England. But FBI and MI6 never got anything.

He called Stalin a "bloody butcher" but he kept his part of the deal even after Stalin's death.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 06:52 | 777885 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

The Aussie gov't is under the US thumb, like Canada's.

Wikileaks ambiguities, from the web -

- Board members of Wikileaks from CIA-entities, including ones tied to CIA-Google contracts and funding, and to CIA's front NGO 'National Endowment for Democracy'

- Thrust of Wikileaks revelations supporting US war initiatives against Iran and for military intervention against Pakistan

- Israeli Prime Minister happy about Wikileaks in effect supporting war in Middle East, and Julian Assange praises the Israeli Prime Minister

- Wikileaks has something like € 1 million in bank, € 200,000 annual budget, supposedly from small 'donations' via PayPal, ha! not likely, bigger sweetheart funding likely behind it

- Wikileaks website doesn't reflect million-in-assets organisation, many have done much more with much less

- One of Wikileaks site names registered by Jimmy Wales founder of Wikipedia, notorious CIA-agent disinfo site (proven in Wired news etc.), Wales himself part of CIA-linked CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) major US gov't policy tool for oligarchs & establishment

- Wikileaks has unusual super good access to corporate media, NY Times and UK Guardian, both shills - mouthpieces for US and UK governments and establishment, media with fake 'progressive' image but refusing to carry much anti-gov't reporting, however nice open door for Wikileaks

- One of Julian Assange's lawyers is also lawyer for US Associated Press, giant US-gov't linked corporate media agency, owned by major US media owned by ruling US oligarch families

- Julian Assange hostile to other progressive revelations, Assange hostile to questioning about US 11 Sept for example

- Julian Assange childhood troubled, under tutelage of parental figures involved with CIA-mind-control-experiment-type application of severely mind-altering drugs upon children

- Assange has previously used internet code name 'Mendax', ancient Latin word for 'liar'

- Weird situation with Assange and Swedish girls, one of them previously published web treatise on how to get revenge on ex-boyfriend re false accusations, one of them has departed for Israel

- The best lies are those that mix some truth with the lies, and the US gov't, has little problem with a further expansion of the well-known fact it is a torturing, murdering, killing-of-innocents regime. A few more Iraq and Afghanistan war atrocities exposed, are a small price to pay for a world-class media manipulation project to help sponsor more upcoming wars, and which will enable US to achieve greater dominance over internet content.

Just sayin'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brGAgrxscOg

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 09:10 | 777923 Tense INDIAN
Tense INDIAN's picture

exellant... the leaks are about torture , crime , killing of innocents....whats new there...the uS govt is aware that the people already know of these going ons......what r the people going to do anyway.....but suppose if u just plant a few more leaks like "dirty bombs found in Libya leads to Pakistan"....or something similar....their job is done ...people will believe it to be true work of a HERO.....i cant believe so many ZHers are prasing this guy.....

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 12:05 | 778044 CD
CD's picture

"- One of Wikileaks site names registered by Jimmy Wales founder of Wikipedia, notorious CIA-agent disinfo site (proven in Wired news etc.), Wales himself part of CIA-linked CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) major US gov't policy tool for oligarchs & establishment"

 

cryptome.org founder John Young leaked the (alleged) emails around the foundation of WL, and some of them discuss this very issue - check out the site. If you Google GeorgieBC, he's got a pretty good summary/Cliffnotes version.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 14:53 | 776066 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Tyler, you do wear a thick condom, I hope.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 14:54 | 776070 kaiten
kaiten's picture

"Since 2007 we have been deliberately placing some of our servers in jurisdictions that we suspected suffered a free speech deficit inorder to separate rhetoric from reality. Amazon was one of these cases."

 

Ouch!

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 14:55 | 776071 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

go julian go!!

"It is correct that Mr. Flanagan and the others seriously making these statements should be charged with incitement to commit murder."

this is the complete hypocrisy of the fascist american state....if you uttered the word sqirt pistol at an airport you would be shot dead where you stood without a trial just as happened at the miami airport during caligula's reign a few years ago....but a senior government official can call for assassination of an individual by the usa and get away scot free...

this is perfect proof that security has nothing to do with safety but with power and subjugation

fuck the tsa, candians, and americans...they are lying hypocrites...

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:07 | 776116 digitaldorobo
digitaldorobo's picture

"fuck the tsa, candians, and americans"

 

How about specifying which Canadians and Americans? There are many Canadians, myself one, and many Americans who support what he is doing.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:15 | 776149 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

A valid point. However the actual number is so low that it is in no way a stretch to say "fuck Americans" on the specific issue of opposing fascist elements in government and industry. This is a battle we are losing and badly.

Americans really are too busy getting rich or staying rich to do much to rock the boat. And so we slide into the abyss where awaits the moral undertow. So sure, fuck Americans. We're self-involved losers.

I won't say "fuck Canadians" because I'm not Canadian. Hey some Canadian: Little help here?

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:47 | 776255 WaterWings
Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:31 | 776381 revenue_anticip...
revenue_anticipation_believer's picture

Lets pretend, imagine, for the moment this scenario:

Inverse 'rendition': Assange is an 'asset' to be protected from the mob, simply by placing him police protection for the moment

Assange and zerohedge BOTH can be considered 'assets', and therefore protected and funded as needed (along with other 'special operations'

BOTH Assange/ZH were enabled/activated/protected as part of the 'management of information/propaganda' mostly in relation to the financial TOTAL COLLAPSE that did NOT...indeed  occur....sucessfully averted/diverted from mass-critical...

It is near CERTAIN that Assange/ZH do NOT know that they were selected/to perform 'management actitities...employed, but yet subject to be 'fired' at anytime = 'cutout-nullified/discredited'

the pseudo 'controller-agent' probably is something like the CFR....no way mere 'hired hands' could regulate/control, sucessfully, while unbeknown/unconscious to Assange/ZH while,yet,these "assets"BOTH pre-existed, not necessarily as 'sleepers' but simply were 'selected'/utilized/hired to perform the perceived necessary functions, that they would do anyway, self motivated...but nearly as well, and not nearly as policy-perfected...'good employees for the job'  

indications: 'protected', continuity-like with evolving business-like improvements, influential/yetinfluential beyond their basic internal structures...IE outsiders have been draftedto ensure/assist sucess...to provide extraordinary access to inside information, to be provided/from time to time...extraordinary, professional commentary mixed with intentional 'noise-commentary'....fundamentally well within conventional ways and means..'revert to the mean policy-steered'

...just a thought experiment..

 

 

 

 

 

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:38 | 776431 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Fair enough.

Hmm ...

Having thought about it, I don't think so. Too complicated and too many untested/untestable assumptions.

But thank you for bring that to my attention.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:53 | 776497 WaterWings
Fri, 12/03/2010 - 22:27 | 777371 romberry
romberry's picture

One problem. Wikileaks isn't doing the redations. The newspapers/media they released these documents to are doing the redactions, and the redactions are a specific effort to protect innocent people from potential harm. Anyway, take it up with Der Spiegel, The Guardian and others.

BTW, as valuable as Cryptome has been and is, some of the criticism from that corner is beginning to strike me as something akin to jealousy. Do the people at Cryptome resent the high profile status of Wikilleaks and the fact that they have not been able to achieve similar levels of recognition even though they have been at it much longer? I don't know the answer to that, but I do know that much of the criticism from that direction in recent weeks does not seem to me well founded.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 03:52 | 777825 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Uh, where did you read the cables cuz I read 'em from their very organized site; directly. Yeah. Redacted. WTF? I didn't read what the papers pushed - I read it live.

Redacted.

 

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:22 | 778377 romberry
romberry's picture

The cables you read directly on Wikileaks are the redacted versions that have been published by their media partners.

 

WikiLeaks has not published "250,000 classified documents."  They've only published 612, and the only documents from the leak of diplomatic cables published on the WikiLeaks site thus far have all been ones published by its newspaper partners such as The New York Times, The Guardian, Der Spiegel, etc., including with the same redactions.   - Source: http://is.gd/iaqUB

 

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 17:25 | 776651 Jasper M
Jasper M's picture

Not Enough 'scare quotes'!!

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 19:25 | 777067 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

The new "needs more cowbell"

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 01:24 | 777648 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

funny

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:40 | 776442 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

Fu&k the 'Leafs!

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:25 | 776392 RowdyRoddyPiper
RowdyRoddyPiper's picture

Flanagan is a idiot. I had the misfortune to take a intro Poli Sci class of his back in the 80s at the glorified high school called the University of Calgary. Like lots of tenured folk, he believes he alone among the masses has wisdom that makes him wise.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:23 | 776175 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

"How about specifying which Canadians and Americans? There are many Canadians, myself one, and many Americans who support what he is doing."

 

Yes, and there are Jews who are supporting him as well.  The "clarification" thing doesn't work so well around here - I've tried.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 18:07 | 776820 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

I know. I get so enraged by idiots who think that if an organization of Arab Terrorists blow something up, therefore all Arabs are evil. You can extrapolate this to Jews, Americans, Chinese and so forth and so on.

This myopia allows the real threat, leadership amongst these groups, to be protected by layers upon layers of people who identify as one of the groups now wholly demonized. Been working like a charm since Babylon.

Be specific about who you dislike or else STFU because you are merely propping up the powers that be or the powers that WANT to be. Freedom starts with the individual recognizing that everyone is an individual who is part of various groups. It's rare to find a group anywhere whose membership is evil through and through. It happens, but most of the time ordinary people who don't know what the fuck is going on are lumped in with Saddam or Ariel Sharon or Bush or Obama or the Queen of England.

No more collateral damage. "Leaders" are and always have been the problem.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 18:06 | 776819 Eureka Springs
Eureka Springs's picture

+++

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 21:36 | 777284 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

As he stated, for them to be after him so bad it shows that whatever he's doing and what he has is earth shattering and can change.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 14:55 | 776072 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

I wish I would have known! I would have asked about BAC!

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 14:55 | 776078 moofph
moofph's picture

...bravo! mr. durden...and we are all suspects at this point in time...here's a toast to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness!

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:01 | 776084 spekulatn
spekulatn's picture

 

Isopod
Julian, why do you think it was necessary to "give Wikileaks a face"? Don't you think it would be better if the organization was anonymous?
This whole debate has become very personal and reduced on you - "Julian Assange leaked documents", "Julian Assange is a terrorist", "Julian Assange alledgedly raped a woman", "Julian Assange should be assassinated", "Live Q&A qith Julian Assange" etc. Nobody talks about Wikileaks as an organization anymore. Many people don't even realize that there are other people behind Wikileaks, too.
And this, in my opinion, makes Wikileaks vulnerable because this enables your opponents to argue ad hominem. If they convince the public that you're an evil, woman-raping terrorist, then Wikileaks' credibility will be gone. Also, with due respect for all that you've done, I think it's unfair to all the other brave, hard working people behind Wikileaks, that you get so much credit.


 

 

Julian Assange:
This is an interesting question. I originally tried hard for the organisation to have no face, because I wanted egos to play no part in our activities. This followed the tradition of the French anonymous pure mathematians, who wrote under the collective allonym, "The Bourbaki".
However this quickly led to tremendous distracting curiosity about who and random individuals claiming to represent us. In the end, someone must be responsible to the public and only a leadership that is willing to be publicly courageous can genuinely suggest that sources take risks for the greater good. In that process, I have become the lightening rod. I get undue attacks on every aspect of my life, but then I also get undue credit as some kind of balancing force.

 

 

 It was a great question and Assange's answer shines a bright light on his psyche. Hopefully wikileaks survives the ego of its leader.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:03 | 776103 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Agreed. People here who claim he is vain and WikiLeaks is an ego trip sound like jealous fucktards.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:26 | 776190 SignsAndWonders
SignsAndWonders's picture

Umm, you mean people like Zero Hedge?

We at Zero Hedge have watched with interest (and some horror) the Wikievents of the last several weeks. Of particular notice to us recently has been the complete inability (or unwillingness) of Wikileaks to release any new material not related to the self-promotion of its ubiquitous figurehead "Julian Assange." Despite a massive budget, it would seem more than an order of magnitude larger than ours, the Wikileaks enterprise seems totally unable to do more than tweet pleas for patience while sending Mr. Assange to, e.g., Brussels to debate freedom of expression. Where are the millions of documents leakers risked to liberate? This is quite sad for us to see, as we were some of the earliest and most enthusiastic supporters of Wikileaks, as individuals as well as under the umbrella of "Zero Hedge."

http://cryptome.org/0001/wikileaks-zero.htm

 

 

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:41 | 776231 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

There are many Tylers. I don't agree with the tone and sometimes the content of a good part of what they post. But they are entitled to their opinions one must suppose.

WikiLeaks is a moving target, in both senses of the word moving.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:11 | 776340 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Where are the millions of documents leakers risked to liberate?

If you read the transcript above you'd know that individual cables are reviewed to ensure that individual's names may be redacted if releasing the name would put the person in danger.

Please tell me how Wikileaks can redact information which is potentially dangerous to individuals if they do a document dump?

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 20:11 | 777158 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

http://coto2.wordpress.com/2010/12/01/former-wikileaks-activists-to-launch-new-whistleblowing-site/


“I am the heart and soul of this organization, its founder, philosopher, original coder, organizer, financier and all the rest. If you have a problem with me, piss off,” Assange famously wrote to one internal critic.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 22:19 | 777359 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

All government is cospiracy and all governed are conspired against. My guess is Julian's transgressions are planned and his forgiveness pre-ordained.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:22 | 776173 YHWH
YHWH's picture

He could have easily picked psuedonyms from popular movies and used that.  It's been known to work elsewhere.

I suggest Wikileaks pick names out of "Resevoir Dogs".  Cool movie.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:04 | 776318 MurderNeverWasLove
MurderNeverWasLove's picture

"Hey!  Why do I have to be Mr. Pink?"

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:03 | 776089 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

"Courage is contagious."  

So is truth.

People need to rip their fascist overlords of oppression from their places of high worship, unmask the incorporation of violence, evil, and war profiteering at the expense of the public -- one and the same Congress.

Assange is a threat because he's right and armed with truth.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:05 | 776110 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Being right and armed with truth won't get you very far in a world where the MSM are part of the fascist control grid.

What makes Julian and WikiLeaks a threat is the Internet.

It is why you are at ZH. Always keep that in mind. Always.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:46 | 776131 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

Do you work for 2600 or something?

I agree, the Internet has no master, and somehow manages to leverage information with freedom.   It can hurt when its pointed at ya though!

 

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 17:25 | 776653 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

I predate 2600. But we would recognize each other in a dark alley.

Welcome to our world.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:14 | 776147 spekulatn
spekulatn's picture

It is why you are at ZH. Always keep that in mind. Always.

 

Wow.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:28 | 776403 BorisTheBlade
BorisTheBlade's picture

What makes Julian and WikiLeaks a threat is the Internet.

Very much so. I would go as far as to say that this case is not about Wikileaks, but about the conflict between governments and the Internet, governments will not win this fight unless they succeed in seriously altering the way information is disseminated through the web, which I don't see hapenning given its highly decentralized structure. However, that will not stop them from trying.

What's interesting: Wiki, relying mostly on the help of volunteers and anonymous sources regularly releases some very sensitive material on the government, while the only thing government with their multi-billion budgets and a huge security apparatus has succeeded so far are some sex crimes allegations and taking down WL website, which was predictably reinstated. It is an assymetric information warfare, much like a regular army vs guerillas.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:44 | 776467 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

And the Internet was originally a DARPA project. I just love irony, don't you?

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 23:36 | 777493 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

You would think that TPTB would ask the designers of Arpanet if the intrawebz can be taken down -- we both know that:

No, it cannot and

even if it could, eCommerce is more important that saving the Govt's face!

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 14:59 | 776090 The Third Man
The Third Man's picture

Viva le Assange!!

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 14:59 | 776092 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Wow. I like him more now. Still skeptical...

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:02 | 776099 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I feel the same way.  He needs to walk the walk.  Until he releases the bank docs he ain't sayin' much. 

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:07 | 776117 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

It's not a beauty pagaent. You don't actually have to like him.

You do have to pay attention. Then, you may need to act.

He won't always please you. Neither will I. Neither will TD. But you really do need to pay attention.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:59 | 776305 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

As GW posted a few days ago Julian needs to "put up or shut up". Months until a bank release...pah-leeze. I get more of a regular thrill on cryptome than I ever did reading the embassy docs. Weak sauce.

But, I agree for the most part. Which is why I cannot tear myself away from ZH and community.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 01:34 | 777669 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

truer words were never spoken

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:00 | 776093 Tense INDIAN
Tense INDIAN's picture

The Pretender ...bitchez

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:01 | 776096 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Part of the problem right here:

Question: blah blah blah pages later --- My question to you is: why should we not hold you personally responsible when next an international crisis goes unresolved because diplomats cannot function.

Cougar's answer: You guys fuck up diplomacy all the time. Hello World War Fucking One and Two. Do you ever take the blame? Hell no. Leave me out of your twisted little world.

 

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 02:08 | 777676 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

or.. your continued failure to take responsibility to ensure future safety forces us to take it in this form

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:01 | 776098 Captain Obviousness
Captain Obviousness's picture

"In states like China, there is pervasive censorship, because speech still has power and power is scared of it. We should always look at censorship as an economic signal that reveals the potential power of speech in that jurisdiction. The attacks against us by the US point to a great hope..."

Fucking good point right there.  It sucks that Assange has to take the fall for this (or some BS rape charge for now anyway), but eventually he'll be vindicated.  Information can't be destroyed, and with the internet it can no longer be contained.  I've never seen the political class so upset about anything in my life.  Too bad everyone from MSNBC to Fox to CNN has the vapors over the truth being released.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 17:00 | 776529 seek
seek's picture

This comment is what got my attention as well, it's really a brilliant perspective. Put me in a happy mood for once!

In a nutshell, he is saying censorship is an acknowledgement that the people, rather than TPTB, have the power.

The US increasing efforts at censorship is a very good sign, indeed. It means our power is increasing; it has been so long since this has happened I doubt TPTB know how to deal with it effectively, hence the political class freakout.

 

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:05 | 776113 Crummy
Crummy's picture

Well, fuck me without a condom. That there Jewlien Asangee is a right bright feller, tell you wut.

 

 

 

 

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:09 | 776125 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Do you have an actual beef with the contents of the interview? Or was that just unflagged sarcasm?

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:28 | 776192 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

"Do you have an actual beef with the contents of the interview? Or was that just unflagged sarcasm?"

JEWlien?  More than sarcasm, I think.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:30 | 776201 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

I think his comment speaks for itself.  It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the interview.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:34 | 776210 Crummy
Crummy's picture

Aww, go shave your neckbeards...

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:43 | 776238 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

I knew it. A nitwit. Glad I could call you out then. I enjoy a little public service.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:53 | 776281 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

"Glad I could call you out then"

 

It's so easy to do, isn't it?  Cheers.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:58 | 776302 Crummy
Crummy's picture

Sure is vinegar and water in here.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:17 | 776361 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Must not be working, I still smell you.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:34 | 776420 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

"Must not be working, I still smell you."

 

Funny.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 17:21 | 776621 Crummy
Crummy's picture

That made my feelings feel bad.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:42 | 776236 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

He was well educated in an alternative way and an IQ that would ring the bell at the circus.

They are frightened of him - WHY.

If he goes there are many more, like minded people.

That interview lets you know he plays their game with a discipline of a grand master.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:00 | 776295 Maddeafandblind
Maddeafandblind's picture

you are obviously a major expert on education.

 

 

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:09 | 776124 McMia
McMia's picture

Julian Assange:
WikiLeaks has a four-year publishing history. During that time there has been no credible allegation, even by organisations like the Pentagon that even a single person has come to harm as a result of our activities. This is despite much-attempted manipulation and spin trying to lead people to a counter-factual conclusion. We do not expect any change in this regard.

Every time I see a statement like this I get a sick feeling in my stomach as it directly incentivises people like Obama and Panetta to stage a false flag op against one of their own just to prove Wikileaks wrong.

Here's hoping A) that doesn't happen and B) Wikileaks and successor organizations can hang on. At this point it's the only hope the lowly proles have...

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 17:07 | 776477 Bob
Bob's picture

On that note, wikileaks is in a very important sense the tip of an iceberg at most:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QsmfKHQJrM

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 01:44 | 777688 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

had the same thought

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:09 | 776126 Contura
Contura's picture

Is he....The One ?

 

 

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 17:34 | 776696 redpill
redpill's picture

His life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the world?

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:09 | 776128 SpeakerFTD
SpeakerFTD's picture

I thought the most interesting question was the one from the ex-diplomat, and Assange danced away from it.   

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:18 | 776154 spekulatn
spekulatn's picture

http://www.thedailybell.com/1572/WikiLeaks-Copies-16th-Century-Amsterdam...

 

from the comments section below the article:


  on 12/2/2010 7:38:38 AM

It seems implausible that Wikileaks has the support structure to amass thousands of high level communiques involving many countries. How did Julian Assange obtain all of his information. The amount of information is so massive that it gives the game away. The hacking of East Anglia University systems and exposure of Global Warming lies seems like a credible event. Wikileaks might have more credibility if it were providing a series of small leaks, but these Megaleaks stink of CIA, MI6, MOSSAD coordination

 

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:00 | 776301 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

Or as an alternative view you could say that if it has an operating system, encrypted or not, it can be written over on a black screen and cracked. That he and others have that proven ability is not in question. Julian has been convicted of this "crime" previously.

If you wanted to know much about a person you should start your search in their youth. The "Northern Star" (Newspaper) archives would be a start.

If you cut the head off, there are others, who view the search for Truth worth the inconvenience. 

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:45 | 776248 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

 

The diplomat used the "question" to pontificate and cast accusations. It wasn't even particularly diplomatic. I thought Julian's answer was gentlemanly. See further above in comment land for an example of what I would have said.

 

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:49 | 776269 Maddeafandblind
Maddeafandblind's picture

"The diplomat"

 

"Julian's answer"

 

Are you his Mum?

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:13 | 776344 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Goodness no. I'm not even female.

I'm a logician.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 17:33 | 776674 Maddeafandblind
Maddeafandblind's picture

I'm a logician.

 

Really? My commiserations - however, last time I looked March Lumber was up 80 cents, so don't despair.

My point is that I (probably in common with 99.9% of the people here) do not know "Julian" or his objectives.

While I welcome the spanner that he has thrown into the works, his evasion of a reasonable question makes me think that he, in all probability, isn`t the Messias.

He seemed to revel in the sycophancy of the other questioners though.

 

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:06 | 776325 SpeakerFTD
SpeakerFTD's picture

I disagree with your characterization of it as pontification.  

The questioner gave some background to his question - I am a diplomat, here is my experience, here is why I think diplomatic secrecy is important.  His question itself was a little over-the-top, but the core question is legitimate. 

Is some government secrecy desirable or can anything legitimately be dumped in the public sphere?

I am all for whistleblowers.  My problem with the cablegate stuff is it is NOT whistleblowing.  Whisteblowing involves public release of information related to criminal activity.   Releasing  the cable of a diplomat speculating privately to his bosses on the motives and actions of another country is gossip, not whistleblowing.   

In that respect, cablegate seems more to me about embarrassing people in the U.S. government then actually uncovering actionable wrongdoing.  I have trouble being very supportive of that.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:16 | 776357 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Expand your definition of criminal activity just a bit and you have arrived.

And actually, it's okay to make your own rules as a basis for the determination of criminality. In fact, you really should start from your own rules because most people are honest and sane. Governments and corporations are dishonest and marginally insane.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:49 | 776483 Bob
Bob's picture

snap. 

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 19:49 | 777124 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

Bingo. The diplomat is failing to realize the earlier beginning to this entire affair, which is that individuals within these security cleared positions have handed over data to persons or groups whose intention it is to air them out publicly. I am assuming he doesn't think Wikileaks hacked computers to gain all this info, nor is it spelled out as such. Wikileaks is only half (if that much) of the problem. The real issues are the people within organizations who a) leak data because of a disagreement with a group's activities or b) as a subterfuge or obfuscation to cloak even larger unsavory activities.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:51 | 776489 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

There's nothing legit about asking someone else how you're allowed to feel.

The only good answers to a question like that would be:

1) Blame me all you like--you're a grown person.

2) Don't blame me because people will hate you for your actions.

Take your pick for the answer there...

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 21:21 | 777259 romberry
romberry's picture

You said "His question itself was a little over-the-top..."

And with that I agree. Apparently Mr. Assange agreed also.

Followed by "...but the core question is legitimate."

Which is why Mr. Assange told the questioner to strip the editorializng, get to to the singular question and he would answer it.

Sorry that Mr. Assange did not perform to your expectations. He apparently does not share them. Neither do I.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:46 | 776253 Maddeafandblind
Maddeafandblind's picture

Yep. Just what I thought.

 

And it's not as if the cables that have been released so far have contained any surprises. Unless you've been living in a hole in the side of a mountain for the last 300 years.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 21:26 | 777267 romberry
romberry's picture

Nothing new? Are you sure of that, or are you just repeating a talking point? Before you answer:

If there's Nothing New in these documents, can Jonathan Capehart (or any other "journalist" claiming this) please point to where The Washington Post previously reported on these facts, all revealed by the WikiLeaks disclosures:  

 

(1) the U.S. military formally adopted a policy of turning a blind eye to systematic, pervasive torture and other abuses by Iraqi forces;

(2) the State Department threatened Germany not to criminally investigate the CIA's kidnapping of one of its citizens who turned out to be completely innocent;

(3) the State Department under Bush and Obama applied continuous pressure on the Spanish Government to suppress investigations of the CIA's torture of its citizens and the 2003 killing of a Spanish photojournalist when the U.S. military fired on the Palestine Hotel in Baghdad (see The Philadelphia Inquirer's Will Bunch today about this: "The day Barack Obama Lied to me"); 

(4) the British Government privately promised to shield Bush officials from embarrassment as part of its Iraq War "investigation"; 

(5) there were at least 15,000 people killed in Iraq that were previously uncounted;

(6) "American leaders lied, knowingly, to the American public, to American troops, and to the world" about the Iraq war as it was prosecuted, a conclusion the Post's own former Baghdad Bureau Chief wrote was proven by the WikiLeaks documents;

(7) the U.S.'s own Ambassador concluded that the July, 2009 removal of the Honduran President was illegal -- a coup -- but the State Department did not want to conclude that and thus ignored it until it was too late to matter;

(8) U.S. and British officials colluded to allow the U.S. to keep cluster bombs on British soil even though Britain had signed the treaty banning such weapons, and,

(9) Hillary Clinton's State Department ordered diplomats to collect passwords, emails, and biometric data on U.N. and other foreign officials, almost certainly in violation of the Vienna Treaty of 1961. 

That's just a sampling.

Source: http://is.gd/iaqUB

 

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 14:10 | 778175 steve2241
steve2241's picture

"(7) the U.S.'s own Ambassador concluded that the July, 2009 removal of the Honduran President was illegal -- a coup --" --- Since when is a U.S. Ambassador to Honduras qualified to opine on the Honduran Constitution? Half the time, these Ambassadors in Latin America aren't even bilingual, having acquired the position due to a political campaign contribution!

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:13 | 776142 TaggartGalt
TaggartGalt's picture

The below is the transcript of the US Departement of State press conference concerning the media status of WikiLeaks.   http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2010/12/152291.htm

QUESTION: Do you know if the State Department regards WikiLeaks as a media organization?

MR. CROWLEY: No. We do not.

QUESTION: And why not?

MR. CROWLEY: WikiLeaks is not a media organization. That is our view.

QUESTION: So P.J., going back to the answer to your last question, have you contacted governments that have been censoring this to protest that – or sites that they have --

MR. CROWLEY: I’m not in a position to say what governments have done or what conversations have occurred between governments and media. There’s – certainly, there are countries around the world that do not have as robust a focus on these issues as ours does. That’s probably not a surprise to us, and when we do meet with these governments, we talk about media issues among key human rights issues. Our dialogue is not going to change over this.

QUESTION: P.J., on that subject of WikiLeaks, Amazon, as we know, did have them on their server for a time and then stopped doing that. And there’s a human rights group that says that Amazon was directed by the U.S. Government to stop that relationship. Do you know anything –

MR. CROWLEY: All I can say is I’m not aware of any contacts between the Department of State and Amazon.

QUESTION: Or the U.S. Government or just State?

MR. CROWLEY: I’m not in a position on this particular issue to talk about the entire government. I’m just not aware of any contacts directly.

QUESTION: From your perspective, what is WikiLeaks? How do you define them, if it is not a media organization, then?

MR. CROWLEY: Well, as the Secretary said earlier this week, it is – one might infer it has many characteristics of some internet sites. Not every internet site you would call a media organization or a news organization. We’re focused on WikiLeaks’s behavior, and I have had personally conversations with media outlets that are reporting on this, and we have had the opportunity to express our specific concerns about intelligence sources and methods and other interests that could put real lives at risk.

Mr. Assange, in a letter to our Ambassador in the United Kingdom over the weekend, after documents had been released to news organizations, made what we thought was a halfhearted gesture to have some sort of conversation, but that was after he released the documents and after he knew that they were going to emerge publicly. So I think there’s been a very different approach. And Mr. Assange obviously has a particular political objective behind his activities, and I think that, among other things, disqualifies him as being considered a journalist.

QUESTION: What is his political objective?

QUESTION: The same letter --

MR. CROWLEY: Hmm?

QUESTION: What is his political objective?

MR. CROWLEY: Well, his – I mean he could be considered a political actor. I think he’s an anarchist, but he’s not a journalist.

QUESTION: So his objective is to sow chaos, you mean?

MR. CROWLEY: Well, I mean, you all come here prepared to objectively report the activities of the United States Government. I think that Mr. Assange doesn’t meet that particular standard.

QUESTION: But just so I understand, P.J., what – I mean you just said the – that you thought he was --

MR. CROWLEY: Well, but I mean – let me – he’s not a journalist. He’s not a whistleblower. And there – he is a political actor. He has a political agenda. He is trying to undermine the international system of -- that enables us to cooperate and collaborate with other governments and to work in multilateral settings and on a bilateral basis to help solve regional and international issues.

What he’s doing is damaging to our efforts and the efforts of other governments. They are putting at risk our national interest and the interests of other governments around the world. He is not an objective observer of anything. He is an active player. He has an agenda. He’s trying to pursue that agenda, and I don’t think he can – he can’t qualify as either a journalist on the one hand or a whistleblower on the other.

QUESTION: Sorry. What is that agenda, that political agenda? Can you be more --

MR. CROWLEY: I’ll leave it for Mr. Assange to define his agenda. He has been interviewed by some of your news organizations. He has the ability to talk for himself. But you asked -- I was asked a specific question, “Do we consider him a journalist?” The answer is no.

QUESTION: In the same letter, he said that U.S. is trying to suppress the whole thing about human rights abuses. And do you agree with his contention that the U.S. is --

MR. CROWLEY: I found very little that Mr. Assange has said that we agree with.

 

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 23:10 | 777301 CD
CD's picture

Wow. And some felt it was Assange who evaded difficult questions, had an oversized ego and reveled in the sycophancy of softball questions... 

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 02:35 | 777752 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

you said it, what a circular, worthless, eye opening set of answers. Thanks Taggart

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:14 | 776144 bubba1231
bubba1231's picture

Tyler,

 

Fairly pathetic you are supporting this terrorist supporting thug with blood on his hands.  He is literally going to be responsible for the deaths of how many innocents.  We all know you love conspiracies and "freedom of speech" - even to the point of supporting posters who claim the US govt supported 9/11 - and thereby crapping on the memories of the dead and their families.  I guess this just foillows sut.  Pathetic

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:19 | 776161 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Ha ha! Look everyone we hit a nerve! I just love it when that happens.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:21 | 776165 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

How will this literally cause the death of many innocents? I have never heard anyone explain this statement.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:25 | 776184 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Well in fairness, across the State Department and the MSM zoo, heads are exploding all over the place.

Innocent heads, some of them. Not many though. Maybe like 2 innocent heads out of all the heads exploding. But those count!

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 17:34 | 776691 Jasper M
Jasper M's picture

cougar, been watching your posts for days, and you are a gold mine. A community treasure. If I had a daughter, I'd let you go out with her. 

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 18:46 | 776966 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

An opening!

If you like my spew at ZH -- where I hardly give it any thought at all -- you might enjoy my ZH fiction where I give things only slightly more than no thought at all:

http://madscienceunlimited.com/fiction/

It's not too serious. Light reading really. Almost nobody is set on fire or eaten. Until the next and final chapter and then actually I'm afraid everyone really does die in flames and slaughter. With actual Christmas caroling in the background sung by an actual angel of the Lord with an actual halo. It's gonna be totally awesome I can't wait.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:22 | 776171 TaggartGalt
TaggartGalt's picture

Fuck you, Bubba. 

 

And we see many right-wing commentators demanding that Assange be hunted down, with some even calling for his murder, on the grounds that he may have endangered lives by releasing confidential government documents.

Yet, for the right-wing, this apparently was not a concern when the late columnist Robert Novak "outed" CIA agent Valerie Plame after her husband Joseph Wilson authored an OP-ED piece in The New York Times criticizing the motivations for waging war against Iraq. Even though there was evidence of involvement within the highest echelons of the Bush dictatorship, only one person, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, was indicted and convicted of "outing" Plame to Novak. And, despite the fact that this "outing" potentially endangered the lives of Plame's overseas contacts, Bush commuted Libby's thirty-month prison sentence, calling it "excessive."

Why the disparity? The answer is simple: The Plame "outing" served the interests of the military-industrial complex and helped to conceal the Bush dictatorship's lies, tortures and war crimes, while Wikileaks not only exposed such evils, but also revealed how Obama's administration, and Obama himself, are little more than "snake oil" merchants pontificating about government accountability while undermining it at every turn.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://english.prav...

 

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:37 | 776220 svendthrift
svendthrift's picture

Right-wing, in the above, means neo-con warmonger. I am populist paleo-con, and I'm completely behind Wikileaks.

Right-wingers - the real ones - despise the msm with every bone in our body. We despise the empire. We despise the bankers. We despise it all and anything that undermines this cesspool of shit and violence is welcome news.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 02:27 | 777745 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

real wingers of either direction should be completely behind wikileaks. Our government is broken and criminal and the stakes are climbing every day, a condition entirely separate from any political philosophy. I too keep thinking of the plame libby insanity as I watch this. The hypocrisy is dumbfounding. The first question out of those jurors mouths post verdict was where in the hell is Karl Rove and the Vice President.   

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:36 | 776218 Bob
Bob's picture

Fuck you, bubba.  The most benign interpretation of you is that you're a dangerous tool.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:44 | 776235 CPL
CPL's picture

What a fantastically unique name bubba1231.

Make that up with a script?

You understand that ZH, while being popular, doesn't fall into the yahoo moron category where there were 1230 bubba's before you.

Could have at least picked a sensible name instead of bubba1231. What are you retards at the agencies that inbred now you can't "make it up"?

Judging from the cables, appearently you are not. Low IQ, hopefully low sperm coutns to cut back on that breeding crap and I'll hazard a guess. Your mate picked you because you were a good provider instead of interesting or hung like a sewer rat.

I come to this broad conclusion, just like your assumption above from the following.

I'm guessing you are disinteresting because of your ability to parrot and puppet nonsense you overheard, misunderstood then acted in terms of your dogma to further extend your newly stolen viewpoint.

You would bore the shit out of the elderly in a nursing home on a saturday afternoon and have them to beg you to leave them alone.

By hung like a gerbil/dickless/without cock, I mean just that. You obviously don't have a man card and handed in your coin purse a long time ago. Is it in the fridge or next to your wife's wallet?

It may seem like Assange is a terrorist in undefined media term now. But it's funny how terms like Courage have been swapped with terrorist. Or wall-flower empty suit with no balls becomes hero as long as they just buy what they are told to buy and do.

What are you three years old? I hardly think any of the people in the cable leaks are innocent or without blame. He's just opened the kimino and revealed a very ugly fat man wearing a diaper while trying to tempt kids into a van with candy.

It's not a prety picture, but life isn't always pretty.

Grow up Mary, or get your purse and get out.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 20:16 | 777169 Clycntct
Clycntct's picture

Hey bubba1231

You could have saved mucho typing, we got the message with your name.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:16 | 776151 ronin12
ronin12's picture

His answers were fantastic. He has gained a new supporter.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:42 | 776237 Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

yeah, I loved the one where he answered the excellent question from the former diplomat.

wait, what? he didn't? oh yeah, he avoided the most pertinent and pointed question asked.

sweet!

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:47 | 776252 CPL
CPL's picture

You mean the diplomat that asked twenty unrelated questions with no relation to the context of the quote provided for the final rebutal question?

BTW, Jesus was gay, so was Joseph Smith of the Mormons...both were pedophiles as well. They both LOVED boys, the younger the better.

//Do you see what I did there child? troll harder next time..

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:04 | 776320 Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

great question got no answer. it is what it is.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:08 | 776334 CPL
CPL's picture

Exactly.

The diplomat didn't ask a question, other than a vieled statement of "don't you feel bad"?

Go read it again and break down the diplomat's question following the KIS rule of simplicity.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:25 | 776396 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

great question got no answer. it is what it is.

Have you stopped beating your wife?

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:41 | 776450 Sabremesh
Sabremesh's picture

My question to you is: why should we not hold you personally responsible when next an international crisis goes unresolved because diplomats cannot function.

Excellent question? Are you retarded? First of all, it is really a rhetorical question - the ex-diplomat is couching negative criticism as a question. Secondly, the criticism is absurd. Diplomats can't function because of Julian Assange? The next international crisis goes unresolved because of Julian Assange? Just how is he supposed to respond to this nonsense?

 


Sat, 12/04/2010 - 01:05 | 777629 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Possible answer:  "You should not hold me responsible when an international crisis goes unresolved BECAUSE diplomats ARE DYSFUNCTIONAL!  Look around, precisely what has been resolved by diplomats lately?  The war in the Balkans? (solved by US military action, I seem to recall!)  Mideast peace 'process' betwixt the Israelis and Palestinians?  (No closer to a 'solution' since the day I was born in 1957!)  Irans giving up on nukular weapons?, etc"

In short, if you want diplomatic messages to remain confidential, then LEARN how to encrypt them -- don't shoot the messenger for revealing that US Diplomacy is beyond STUPID!!

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:55 | 776511 ronin12
ronin12's picture

I said his answers were fantastic. I said nothing about his "non-answers" :).

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 12:27 | 778062 Sabremesh
Sabremesh's picture

Not you...that other guy!

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:18 | 776158 TaggartGalt
TaggartGalt's picture

If you are interested about the origins and intent of the WikiLeaks group, you must read this:

http://georgiebc.wordpress.com/2010/12/02/who-were-wikileaks/

Here is a sample:

We are going to fuck them all. Chinese mostly, but not entirely a feint. Invention abounds. Lies, twists and distorts everywhere needed for protection. Hackers monitor chinese and other intel as they burrow into their targets, when they pull, so do we. Inxhaustible supply of material. Near 100,000 documents/emails a day. We’re going to crack the world open and let it flower into something new. If fleecing the CIA will assist us, then fleece we will. We have pullbacks from NED, CFR, Freedomhouse and other CIA teats. We have all of pre 2005 afghanistan. Almost all of india fed. Half a dozen foreign ministries. Dozens of political parties and consulates, worldbank, apec, UN sections, trade groups, tibet and fulan dafa associations and… russian phishing mafia who pull data everywhere. We’re drowing. We don’t even know a tenth of what we have or who it belongs to. We stopped storing it at 1Tb.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:23 | 776174 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Why? Did you write that yourself? Where did that information come from? And how do you know that?

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:31 | 776202 TaggartGalt
TaggartGalt's picture

GeorgieBC is the author and quotes from the WikiLeaks leak.  Read more.

http://georgiebc.wordpress.com/2010/12/02/who-were-wikileaks/

Too few people have read what probably will be considered John Young’s greatest historical achievement (besides creating Cryptome, the seed for Wikileaks). When he became annoyed with Wikileaks he published all the emails that went into the original discussions in 2006 and 2007, a fascinating look at characters that must have been so difficult to get together in agreement that it is mind boggling how few public eruptions we have actually seen. The anarchist, the revolutionary, the difficult, the brilliant, and the possibly mad, sometimes all in one person. And frequently, a very familiar voice. All working towards the same goal, to rock your world and make it better.

Since I know most of you really don’t have time to add these giant files to your list of required reading this week, I have gone through it all and pulled what I felt was most illustrative for your reading enjoyment. Wikileaks now is not Wikileaks then. People have wandered in and out, and a lot of much more mainstream professionals have joined. But these are the origins.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:47 | 776256 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Who the hell is GeorgieBC? This is the Internet, know your sources.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:53 | 776283 TaggartGalt
TaggartGalt's picture

Who the hell is Tyler Durden?! 

You are a sorry, sad, critic.  Go forth and read and research and know.

http://cryptome.org/wikileaks/wikileaks-leak.htm

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:20 | 776369 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

No I'm questioning. You haven't answered a simple question. And I don't care who Tyler Durden is, I can verify ZH posts from the original sources. You are not my guru, and I'm not even certain you understand what is going on here.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:24 | 776386 TaggartGalt
TaggartGalt's picture

I thought I did answer; and provided links to the original sources. If you care to enlighten me, please do so in private.  my handle at gmail.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:24 | 778379 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

Thank you, this is the most helpful piece of info on WL I've seen.

I've come full circle this week to thinking the following about WL:

 

1. WL was started with good intent by people who care about freedom.

 

2. Julian Asagne is brilliant but an egomaniac. That doesn't preclude him being a big part of #1 above.

3. WL may have been used in the most recent Cablegate as the source may have been pushing for an agenda. eg Make Iran, Turkey look bad to further far-right Israeli policy.

So I think JA and the WL crew have a good heart, but that doesn't mean they can't be used by pointed leaks with a pre-determined political outcome eg eviscerate diplomacy and push for war with Iran.

Thanks again to all the folks who have helped flesh out my understanding of WL. Here's hoping this most current re-assessment of mine is correct and WL is a freedom based organization. Not that my assessment means anything other than as a possibly correct point of view. The whole WL and related intel-war is amazingly confusing. Here's hoping the hackers really are and continue to rise up. That was always my hope from even the bulletin board dial up days.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:20 | 776162 cbaba
cbaba's picture

Hoping to live in a better world, good Job Julian Assange.

 

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:23 | 776176 YHWH
YHWH's picture

I would love to see more leaks on the efforts behind the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement. 

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 01:08 | 777632 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

I'm waiting with bated breath to see how cables relating to Israel dissect the Aorta of Joe Lieberman (going forward -- whatever that means!)

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:25 | 776182 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Free Julian.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:26 | 776188 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

He's not in actual jail yet. You can relax.

But do hold that thought...

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:42 | 776197 Horatio Beanblower
Horatio Beanblower's picture

 

The fear!  The fear! "French ministers and bankers have warned that an appeal by Eric Cantona, the former Manchester United star, for citizens to withdraw all their money from banks could propel France into economic chaos."

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8179516/French-ministers-and-bankers-warn-against-Eric-Cantona-protest.html 

 

Don't mess with Eric - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7y72_cantona-incident-a-crystal-palace_sport

 

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:59 | 776307 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Jean-Luc Melenchon, the firebrand leader of The Party of the Left said: "I don't know if we would gain much by a general and instant collapse of the system. I approach things differently, with elections, with programmes."

The firebrand ahahaha.  Meet the new boss....

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:25 | 776390 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

"I don't know if we would gain much by a general and instant collapse of the system."

I don't know the guy, and maybe I'd agree with his thoughts in general or not. But that kind of line easily translates into this one:

"I don't know if I would be in the right political position to benefit from an instant collapse of the system."

If you follow my meaning here.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 01:10 | 777636 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Anyone that sez "cats are stupid" has just been proven wrong (in spades!)

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:30 | 776199 KenShabby
KenShabby's picture

I second that FUCK YOU Bubba. The real traitors are the fucking bankers and their enablers the politicians.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:30 | 776204 bubba1231
bubba1231's picture

Anyone who supports Julian supports anarchy and terror.  You literally all have blood on your hands as well.  You think its cool to be "anti establishment."  In fact its pathetic.  If people like him had their way how would your families live?  Our men and women protect us overseas and people like this unravel everything.  There are plenty of legitimate ways to express views.  Anyone who supports this jackass desrves to live under Hugo Chavez and similar thinking idiots.  And Tyler - why are you to big a COWARD to say where you stand on 9/11.  Was OBL responsible.  It isnt good enough to say allowing GW to lie on your blog is just freedom of speech.  What about the Holocaust - did that happen?  Is it Ok to write here saying it didn't?

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:34 | 776213 TaggartGalt
TaggartGalt's picture
Martin Luther King
  1. A man who won’t die for something is not fit to live.
  2. An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law.
  3. An individual has not started living until he can rise above the narrow confines of his individualistic concerns to the broader concerns of all humanity.
  4. Change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through continuous struggle. And so we must straighten our backs and work for our freedom. A man can’t ride you unless your back is bent.
  5. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
  6. Every man must decide whether he will walk in the light of creative altruism or in the darkness of destructive selfishness.
  7. Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see.
  8. Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed.
  9. Have we not come to such an impasse in the modern world that we must love our enemies – or else? The chain reaction of evil – hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars – must be broken, or else we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation.
  10. He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.
  11. History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.
  12. Human progress is neither automatic nor inevitable… Every step toward the goal of justice requires sacrifice, suffering, and struggle; the tireless exertions and passionate concern of dedicated individuals.
  13. Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted.
Sat, 12/04/2010 - 01:13 | 777637 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

I would add:  "Calls for 'Patriotism' are the last refuge of Scoundrels!"

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:40 | 776230 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Stop trying to tie Assange to 911 troofers; he has specifically rejected them in the past.

You are a brainwashed fool; now go get your orifices probed on the way to catch a flight at the airport.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:49 | 776268 CPL
CPL's picture

he can get groped at the bus station now.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 17:06 | 776552 Bob
Bob's picture

 

Indeed.  I think we should also be attending to matters even closer to heart and home than wikileaks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QsmfKHQJrM

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:12 | 776341 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Yeah, we can see with our own eyes the "troof" of 9/11 I suppose.

Building 7. Nuff said.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:55 | 776479 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

"Building what???"  Said the judge to the families of the September 11th bombing victems when asked about his knowledge of Building Seven.

And WW gets junked for bringing up Building Seven!  Well, please, anyone, someone, how did the 47 story building collapse at freefall speed into its own footprint?

 

Bueller?

 

Bueller?

 

Bueller?

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:41 | 776232 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

You are barely treading water in the official cesspool of lies.

Time is long past due for people like you to re-think your positions.

Best keep your mouth shut before you swallow any more shit.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:03 | 776314 tmosley
tmosley's picture

How much blood does the United States government have on it's hands?

In the last ten years alone, enough to fill a good sized lake.  Millions murdered.  These are the innocents.

Why on earth do you think people who want openness in government deserve to live under a dictator?  How stupid are you?  People who want to live under and open government deserve an open government, whatever that should mean.  Your closed government has lead us to where we are today.  Your support of that government means you deserve what we have now.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:04 | 776324 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

The US is increasingly using drones for air strikes in Pakistan's border area, with the CIA controlling the unmanned aircraft from the US. Drone attacks against insurgent targets form a key part of US President Barack Obama's anti-terror strategy, and are estimated to have killed over 500 people in 2010 alone. The approach has been criticized by some human rights experts as violating international law, given that Pakistan is not a war zone.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,732684,00.html

BLOOD! OMG! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

Terror is as terror does mate.

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 17:10 | 776569 Bob
Bob's picture

Exactly.  And I hope you won't mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QsmfKHQJrM

Even closer to home. 

Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:32 | 776412 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Anyone who supports Julian supports anarchy and terror.

 

As an anarcho-capitalist I cop to the charge of supporting anarchy. It is, however, those who support the state who are responsible for terror. The blood is on your hands and you're a moocher to boot.

Don't Tread on Me.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 01:17 | 777642 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Anarchy (lack of oppressive Govt) != Chaos.

A well-armed society is a polite society.

Pity that the rest of us that understand the 1st Amendment have to use the 2nd to defend such creatures!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!