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Congresswoman McMorris Rodgers Reponds To IMF Statement Europe Bailout Will Cost US Taxpayers $100 Billion+

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Last week we pointed out a very troubling statement by the head of IMF's policy-steering committee, Youssef Boutros-Ghali who
said that the IMF is essentially insolvent in its current form of being
the go to backstop for a European bailout. "If we are going to start including funds made available to
Europe, then the IMF is not properly resourced."
Finally, someone in Washington is waking up over the most recent bottomless moneyhole, now affectionately known as Euro-TARP, and the hundreds of billions this will cost US taxpayers.

From the just released statement by Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-WA):

McMorris Rodgers Responds to Statement by IMF Leader Suggesting that European Bailout Will Cost U.S. Taxpayers $100 Billion or More

“Obama Administration Needs to Stand Up for U.S. Taxpayers”

Washington, DC – Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-WA), Vice Chair of the House Republican Conference, called a statement by one of the leaders of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) suggesting that American taxpayers would be forced to spend $100 billion to help bailout Europe “extremely troubling.”

On Friday, June 4, the chairman of the IMF’s policy committee, Youssef Boutros-Ghali, said the IMF’s financial reserves would have to rise “very significantly” in the wake of the IMF’s $335 billion commitment to bailout Greece and the European Union.  "If we are going to start including funds made available to Europe, then the IMF is not properly resourced," said Mr. Boutros-Ghali, while adding that IMF members were talking of doubling the amount of Special Drawing Rights (SDRs).  In 2009, the IMF increased its SDR allocation from $34 billion to $318 billion.  To help facilitate this process, the U.S. Congress – over the objection of most House Republicans – increased America’s commitment to the IMF by $100 billion.  If the SDR allocation needs to be doubled – as Mr. Boutros-Ghali claims – that would mean U.S. taxpayers would probably be on the hook for an additional $100 billion, if not more. [emphasis ours]

“This should give pause to Treasury Secretary Geithner and others who boasted that the IMF’s bailout bonanza wouldn’t cost U.S. taxpayers a dime,” said Rep. McMorris Rodgers.  “In truth, the cost to U.S. taxpayers goes up every few weeks.  After the Greek bailout, it stood at about $7 billion; after the EU bailout, it stood at about $60 billion.  Now – based on Mr. Boutros-Ghali’s comments – we’re talking at possibly $100 billion or more.  This has got to stop.”

Growing concerns about U.S. involvement in the European debt crisis have sent stocks sharply lower and raised fears of a double-dip recession.  After the $900 billion EU bailout was announced on the evening of May 9, the Dow Jones rose to 10,880.14 in the first hour of trading the next day.  But since then, growing doubts about the wisdom of the bailout have rattled financial markets.  At the close of trading on June 4, the Dow stood at 9,931.97.  May 2010 was the worst May for the Dow Jones since 1940.  

On May 18, Rep. McMorris Rodgers and Rep. Mike Pence (R-IN) introduced a Congressional Resolution, H. Con. Res. 279, opposing U.S. participation in the European bailouts.

“Every Member of Congress should go on record – either ‘yay’ or ‘nay’ – on whether or not U.S. tax dollars should go to a Euro-TARP,” said Rep. McMorris Rodgers.  “Should Congress approve our resolution, it will send a powerful signal to the Obama Administration that we cannot take this ‘too big to fail’ philosophy to a global level.  The only thing ‘too big to fail’ is America itself.” [emph. ours]

 

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Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:29 | 399641 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

"Now – based on Mr. Boutros-Ghali’s comments – we’re talking at possibly $100 billion or more.  This has got to stop.”

It will in November.  NOVEMBER INCUMBENT BLOODBATH !!! MAKE IT HAPPEN !!!

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:36 | 399663 bingaling
bingaling's picture

What are you going to do vote republican and end up with the same corporatist BS? Gimme a break .How many years has this gone on and it just keeps getting worse ? Even the supreme court is in on the joke .

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:39 | 399673 theopco
theopco's picture

+1

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:41 | 399680 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Then give up and move away. If you want to throw up your hands and bitch, do it quietly.

I am not giving up.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:45 | 399697 Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo's picture

Vote out the incumbents who were elected after the gross mismanagement of the United States by the previous incumbents.

Are Democrats better than Republicans?  Probably not.  Is electing Republicans the answer to fix the problems that they created?  Probably not.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:59 | 399722 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

They seem pretty concerned about the few "incumbent rebukes" we have seen so far in 2010.

They should be.

I have no illusions about the WWE event called Dem. vs. Repub.- Liberal vs. Conservative. It is the oldest crowd control technique known through history. Divide and conquer.

The "purging cycle" will take at least 3 elections. And that will only work if the electorate wakes up and starts paying attention. A third and possible fourth party must emerge during this time frame.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:33 | 399818 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

You are on the right track, of course.  Doesn't matter which of the parties is holding a particular office so long as he/she knows that this is NOT a lifetime career.  It is NOT a ladder to getting rich.  It is NOT a guaranteed source of campaign funding thru lobbyists.  It is NOT a good-ole-boy network where you vote for my bill and I'll vote for yours.  It HAS to be a job where each of them looks over the shoulder to gauge the voter sentiment alone.  Ideally we would have NO parties -- just responsive and concerned legislators -- you know, like what the original design envisioned.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 15:12 | 400222 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Lobbying and corporate contributions need to be done period. If Roberts doesn't like it I am perfectly happy for him to drop dead. The sooner the better actually.

I know a new form of "influence" will evolve if we do stop this "traditionally entrenched" form of influence but something must be changed, and soon.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 17:46 | 400534 baserunr
baserunr's picture

The new form of influence may involve lead and lead delivery systems.....

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:14 | 399940 bingaling
bingaling's picture

They are gonna play it in the election to hide who they really are and what they really stand for . All the right things will be said - I also believe they will infiltrate the tea party with their own . End of the day same corporatist just a different story to get elected .

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:18 | 400101 Duuude
Duuude's picture

 

 

If They're In They're Out

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 15:17 | 400239 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Agreed, it is the only way. And some good representatives will lose seats but that is the unavoidable  collateral damage in a movement of this nature.

The liars will be voted in but they will get voted out soon enough if the electorate does it's homework. After 3 or 4 cycles the liars will give up, be in jail or better yet be dead.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 16:22 | 400335 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I will abide by this old axiom:

If nothing changes, nothing changes.

Tue, 06/08/2010 - 00:02 | 400965 msjimmied
msjimmied's picture

I doubt we survive 3 election cycles. We are just careening from one disaster into another and the wave cycle is too freaking tight, its almost in chaos territory. There is no reforming or reworking this, it's broken.

To me, all this talk about dems or repubs, or some still to emerge third or fourth party is meaningless. We will have a paradigm shift. I would like it sooner, so people still have the fight in them to move forward. If the extend and pretend lasts years and decades, what we will have is a hollowed out nation and traumatized zombies.  Words will not win this war. There is no powerhouse of American politics waiting in the wings, picking off the well fed leeches to be replaced by new hungry ones is not a solution.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:48 | 399701 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

A strong third party or even fourth party will be the only answer. Otherwise, ironically, votes are thrown away.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:10 | 399922 MichiganMilitiaMan
MichiganMilitiaMan's picture

A third party only consolidates futher the Dem and Republican strength.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:40 | 400006 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

You should vote for what you really want instead of holding your nose and voting for the lesser of two evils.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:51 | 400038 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

What if no one voted for anyone, and we all demonstrated outside of Federal buildings and other governmental places instead?

I am serious too by the way, as I have done this the past two elections; didn't vote for anyone either time.

Disclaimer:  I do vote locally.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:24 | 400115 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Write-in, AND demonstrate.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:09 | 400078 scofflaw
scofflaw's picture

In a winner takes all system like ours 3rd party candidates are moot.  At the executive branch, winning a plurality, even if it is not a majority, means you get 100% of the government--all cabinet appointments etc.  No sharing whatsoever.    In a parliamentary system a 3rd party that takes 15% of the vote and denies an outright majority has considerable influence on governing.  Our system is a pluarlity-takes-all in which a 3rd party regardless of how considerable the showing has zero impact on governing.  Those that would pursue a 3rd party (i.e. independent Tea Party) are deliberately marginalizing themselves in the name of principle.  Good for you.  But if your objective is to actually make change and not just make a point you have to do it from the inside which is why the Tea Party is an extremely powerful force within the Republican Party and would be a feckless bunch of whiners that could be ignored if they were on the outside.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 16:25 | 400342 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Yep--Nader in 2000 (arguably), Perot in '92 certainly.  Result opposite of the 3d party intention.

Tea party in MA quite energized for Scott Brown.  For the first time in my life I can say that I'm really proud to be from MA.

- Ned

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:50 | 399706 ufamizm
ufamizm's picture

I am, for my kids sake. Just haven't fully decided on the country yet. Need to get out before capital controls confiscate a greater percentage of total worth to pay for the privilege of rescinding citizenship. Time is short.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:54 | 399711 bingaling
bingaling's picture

I dont have to give up, I have already won as I sit here and watch the inevitable totally detached from it all. Real change is coming

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:43 | 399688 RSDallas
RSDallas's picture

Agreed, but what else are you going to do?  You sure as hell don't want to continue on the path we are on.  I think you vote the old cronies out Republican or Democratic.  We might not be able to completely stop the elites, but I think we can take a firmer stance than we are now.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:54 | 399716 Missing_Link
Missing_Link's picture

Screw you and your pathetic fatalism, bingaling.  The Tea Party movement is for real and they are going to make sure the Republican Party moves back in the direction of fiscal conservatism.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:00 | 399737 bingaling
bingaling's picture

The teabaggers are total bullshit -what are they going to do ? cut everything ? We still owe what we owe.  Simple plan Default/ start from scratch(the system does not work ) and a real currency .

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:11 | 399764 Mako
Mako's picture

There is no out for the teabaggers, never was.  They could elect Ron Paul and his whole family clan.  System will collapse and liquidate, matter of fact it would probably collapse almost instantly.

The global financial credit relies on the US consumer to manufacturer new credit via the commercial banks, unfortunately or fortunately those US consumers stopped requesting said new instruments.  The failure of the system has nothing to do with government borrowing, the system is not getting the required juice to run.  Collase > Liquidation 

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:26 | 399806 centerline
centerline's picture

Next group voted in = bagholders

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:41 | 399842 total nonsense
total nonsense's picture

Move to Greece i am sure the next few decades will be great..There is no where in the world that is or will be ok..If you want to give up your citizenship go right ahead we do not need you

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:59 | 399864 Mako
Mako's picture

I agree nowhere to hide this time.   Virtually all are fucked, they just think there is a way out.  The teabaggers are under the false assumption that there is a way out, well I guess there is, right through the saw blades. 

There is no Helicopter Ben, nor a Benny and the Jets, or a Wizard of Oz.  System collapse then liquidation of the non-performing liabilities.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:46 | 400026 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Mako,

Hey one-trick pony: why don't you tell us what you really think we all should do?  Tell us what you really want; don't hide it.  You always say the same thing, and it's very very boring.  The system is going to collapse.  There's no hope.  Blah Blah Blah.  Come on, out with it.  What are you selling?  What do you think we should do?  Details, please.  "Prepare for the collapse" doesn't do it.

Tell us what you're really about.  I dare you.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:00 | 400053 Mako
Mako's picture

"why don't you tell us what you really think we all should do?"

Either pick another path or STFU and take the liquidation without crying, you are not going to get a different result.  The choice is yours.

If you don't like that I don't know what to tell you.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:01 | 400059 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

What "other path" would you like us to pick?

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:12 | 400068 Mako
Mako's picture

Either use a system where you take out more than you put in or you don't.  I would say humans will continue to try and put a square peg in a round hole.  

To be honest, if you don't pick the other path for everyone's sake at least stop crying about the end results when it collapses, take the liquidation like a Man.... sit back and enjoy the show.  This is like jumping out of an airplane with no parachute thinking the landing is going to be soft, well, I think I would learn the first time I see the broken body of the first person on the ground.   The choice is yours.... the result will continue to be the same.

The one-trick pony is all you guys that continue to think you are going to get a different result doing the same thing over and over and over and over.

Don't worry you won't have to make it through liquidation more than once.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:20 | 400104 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I think we all agree with the premise that the equation, on a long enough timeline, cannot be filled... 

However, I am curious as to the alternative.  We still have infrastructure from the CCC.  The boom bust cycle does not necessarily conclude with everything going to zero.  Rather, humans are using it to stair step upwards.  After every liquidation, there is still some residue...

Now, I agree that we have incredible risks each time...  in that, we risk wiping out all of humanity and all of our previous accomplishments...  and I understand that induction does not necessarily have anything to do with me or "this" time...   but history should at least be somewhat optimistic in that there will be something survive our volatility.

I guess the question is, what is the alternative?  Do you believe it is even possible for us to CHOOSE an alternative?  The one where we're a collective of sustenance farmers?  Where R & D means walking over the field for where the cows shit the most the year before?  How do we progress?  How do we achieve the unthinkable (walking on the moon) without the credit system as it is?  Ultimately, if we want to survive, isn't it our only chance?  Don't we have to come up with some answer that is vastly outside the realm of ordinary achievement and common understanding?

I'm not advocating one way or the other, I just don't ever see you try and tackle these topics...  just curious. 

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:48 | 400123 Mako
Mako's picture

Nice post by the way, pretty constructive.  Actually I will disagree with the "we all agree"... the mass lemmings will disagree until the end and most probably will continue to believe that housing and derivatives or government spending is the reason.

"what is the alternative?  Do you believe it is even possible for us to CHOOSE an alternative?"

The alternate is not to do what we have been doing.  Yes, the devil is in the details and I don't see just one simple solution.   Actually, lemmings can bring the system to a stand still right now.  Don't do it, of course I know that might be oversimplying the problem and issues.

As far as the legal aspects, the infrastructure is already there in the legal system.   Debt is a fiction of law, most do not understand this.  In some ways people are starting to understand this portion, the problem is they are doing it out of greed more than anything.  

http://www.reclaimmichigan.com

The teabaggers can take this country back anytime they want.  That will not just make life instantly better, matter of fact it will be much harder in some ways.  It's choice.  I encourage more discussion in this area, I do not offer 99 virgins at the end of the choice either.... you will be down to what you need and not what you want.


Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:23 | 400114 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

So we should all just shut up and close down the blog then? 

for everyone's sake at least stop crying about the end results when it collapses, take the liquidation like a Man.... sit back and enjoy the show.

Are you sure you're not Hyperkitty?  He was very actively shoveling the exact same stuff: it's hopeless, give up, accept fate...

As as for sitting back and enjoying the show, I read the book already: Weimar Germany.  What came after that I will choose to not sit back and enjoy, and damn you for suggesting that I do so.  All of you who are here preaching this passive crap are the problem, not the solution.  You may keep your fear, and embrace it as dearly as you like.  Personally, I wish you'd keep you fear to yourself and stop coming here trying to infect the rest of us with it.  Some of us are trying to keep our kids from inheriting a gulag.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:48 | 400136 Mako
Mako's picture

"He was very actively shoveling the exact same stuff: it's hopeless, give up, accept fate..."

I do not believe in fate per se, I believe in limited choices and once choices are made your choices down the line become narrower and narrower.   You do not have unlimite choices and you have to live with the choices you have made, and some mistakes you never escape... that is life.

If your life choices are based on the assumption that 2+2 does not equal for 4, well, I would imagine those choices are not going to work out for you so well.

"What came after that I will choose to not sit back and enjoy, and damn you for suggesting that I do so."

Yeah, you will be part of the lemmings clubing one another.    Heck, you can go jump off a building there isn't much I can do about it. 

Actually Germany recovered very quickly from the Weimar days, it wasn't until the  UK peaked out and the global system went kaboom that the real troubles began. 

 

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 15:13 | 400230 Gold...Bitches
Gold...Bitches's picture

I keep expecting Mako at some point to just advise everyone to put the gun in their mouth to stop the hopelessness

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 16:33 | 400321 Mako
Mako's picture

Lemmings usually don't take their own life or not enough to make a difference.  The top have no more use for you... you are now a bunch of unfunded liabilities to the system. 

I guess we can talk about fantasy land and unicorns and fairies if you wish. 

A few billion will probably have to go either way, I doubt you can get the needed liquidation by suicide alone but they are always looking for volunteers

The Oracle: Seems like every time we meet I've got nothing but bad news. I'm sorry about that, I surely am. But for what it's worth, you've made a believer out of me. Good luck, kiddo.

........

Neo: Are you saying I have to choose whether Trinity lives or dies?

The Oracle: No. You've already made the choice, now you have to understand it.
Neo: No, I can't do that. I won't.


Mon, 06/07/2010 - 16:24 | 400338 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Mako's got a a know-it-all, rise-above-the-unwashed-masses attitude while offering no specific information beyond this:

"The alternate is not to do what we have been doing."  That's pure fucking genius.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 16:49 | 400347 Mako
Mako's picture

I actually know very little.  The information I have provided should be obvious.   You are just like the rest, you live for one reason to believe lies.   If I were to tell you how beatiful you are or how smart you are or what a great guy you are, you would eat that up.   Lemmings love lies and delusions.  You certainly don't have to be smart to stop listening to lies.  The choice is obvious, you reject the simple choices.  Not a genius at all, any retard can figure this out as soon as they stop listening to lies.

The Oracle was not smart, it was an obvious result repeated over and over with slightly different details.  The Oracle knew basically what was going to happen, the change was Smith that changed the result, absent Smith the same result was going to happen.  The Oracle had seen it 6 times, the humans had no idea because it was all new to them the first time, but unlike them, you actually have history books.   You have learned NOTHING, well if nothing is what you want... nothing is what you are going to get. "Same shit different day."

Good luck, kiddo.  I am pulling for you.  :)

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 17:17 | 400468 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

I actually know very little.  The information I have provided should be obvious.

So, based on your not knowing much and so being unable to provide any actual useful information, which you say you've already provided, you switch to condescension mixed with insults?  Any fool can sit around and point out what's not right.  I want you to come right out and tell us what you're selling, because you are obviously selling something, and I am sure I know what it is, and I am also sure that everyone here would tune you out if you just flat out told us, and that's why you try to hide in stupid statements like the one above and then try to cover it up with dialog you think is clever.  You had the opportunity to agree with others below that you are trying to tell us something specific about the credit system, that credit can't expand faster than productivity; others here think that is what you are saying.  But you're not, are you?

Spill.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 17:57 | 400562 Mako
Mako's picture

Look SWRichmond, I have said it in multiple ways to where a 10 year old can get, the reason you are having a hard time is not intelligence or lack of... it's because you are being unwilling to let go.

"I want you to come right out and tell us what you're selling, because you are obviously selling something, and I am sure I know what it is, and I am also sure that everyone here would tune you out if you just flat out told us, and that's why you try to hide in stupid statements like the one above and then try to cover it up with dialog you think is clever."

I have offered to sell you nothing, and nothing is going to be what you get.  I have nothing to offer but the truth, that's it, I don't want your gold or your money or anything.   I want you to think and that is free. 

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 18:49 | 400630 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

it's because you are being unwilling to let go.

Now we're getting somewhere.

I have nothing to offer but the truth, that's it

Please enlighten me, O sage one, tell me your "truth".

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:54 | 399874 QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

"We don't need to you"... who is we? you have a mouse in your pocket? expat is a viable option -

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:19 | 399960 total nonsense
total nonsense's picture

Yes me and my mouse do not need you..Go see if the grass is greener on the other side..Give up your citizenship and do not come back..

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:05 | 399908 bingaling
bingaling's picture

+10

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:45 | 400023 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Mako,

Hey one-trick pony: why don't you tell us what you really think we all should do?  Tell us what you really want; don't hide it.  You always say the same thing, and it's very very boring.  The system is going to collapse.  There's no hope.  Blah Blah Blah.  Come on, out with it.  What are you selling?  What do you think we should do?  Details, please.  "Prepare for the collapse" doesn't do it.

Tell us what you're really about.  I dare you.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:45 | 400150 B9K9
B9K9's picture

I feel Mako needs someone else to defend his point-of-view, since he appears to have a blind-spot with regard to explicating exactly what he means.

The bottom line is that if humanity chooses to utilize a credit system in which to facilitate economic production, then production growth MUST exceed credit growth.

If production growth does not exceed credit growth, then the compounding principle+interest of the debt must, at some point, necessarily exceed the carrying capacity of the underlying economy.

Typically, over the long-term, productive growth never exceeds credit growth, because humanity continually realizes that the same credit facility can be used for current consumption. Hence, the illusion of prosperity as we pull forward future demand.

Once the credit system reaches terminal velocity, the system implodes on itself since there isn't sufficient new credit being generated to pay off (ie roll forward) older debts coming due with attached interest coupons.

This cycle of typically runs in 50-60 year increments; we were due back in 2000. The Fed knew it, but chose the real estate bubble as a temporary out.

What Mako is saying is that if we collectively choose to dance with the Devil, don't complain when the bill comes due. He gets annoyed, because here at ZH of all places, many people still do not understand the nature of our credit-money system.

Absent some really game changing event in the energy arena, there isn't any way out - the system must and WILL crash. No political party has any answers to solving our problems; if the TPs think it can be reformed, they are sadly mistaken.

What any anti-incumbent movement will do (as the far right & far left unite), however, is bring on the crash, either intentionally or unintentionally, which can get us going again after the slate is cleaned. At that point, hopefully mankind will have a good chance to contemplate exactly what type of system we need to move forward.

If the cabal of private money changers retain control, then the cycle will just be re-visited in another couple of generations.

 

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 15:16 | 400235 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

Well written.  Thanks.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 15:16 | 400237 bingaling
bingaling's picture

100% on the money B9k9 -

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 15:19 | 400242 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

The bottom line is that if humanity chooses to utilize a credit system in which to facilitate economic production, then production growth MUST exceed credit growth....Typically, over the long-term, productive growth never exceeds credit growth, because humanity continually realizes that the same credit facility can be used for current consumption. Hence, the illusion of prosperity as we pull forward future demand.

I agree completely with this statement, and it is a clear statement of a basic flaw in the existing system.

I also completely doubt that that is what Mako is really getting at.  Maybe I am wrong.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 15:32 | 400269 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

I'm new to posting, but have been reading here for a couple of years.  I do think that this is where Mako is coming from.  He has a narrative behind the cause that many people don't like.  I'm open minded, but skeptical (the part of the narative that many refer to as "conspiracy"... I don't refer to it as conspiracy as I think it's just a label that allows people to dismiss things they would rather not think about... though I'm not sure how much I buy the whole bit).  I also don't know how much it really matters.  I think there are more or less two outcomes here: 1. Everything is by design leading us to a form of global governance that I don't think will be so good, or... 2. Not everything is by design and we are somewhere between 1935 and 1940 and WWIII is really going to suck.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 16:30 | 400353 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

No, that's pretty much where Mako is coming from. What he never seems to conclude, though, is how this rational non-expanding-credit system is defined and enforced. He also seems pretty insistent that humanity's development is a zero-sum game.

I believe that is incorrect (vis a vis increasing productivity and efficiency with respect to limited resources), but I also believe that the rate of credit/debt expansion facilitated and encouraged by the laws and institutions developed to date is way out of whack with what is sustainable by the organic growth rate of human activity. Ergo, crash city.

One implication is that the alternate path could be achieved by outlawing "usury". I doubt this would be effective, as it is hard to show that a consentual trade of money for future money is somehow inherently harmful to anyone. Nearly everyone goes into the transaction with eyes open, WRT the cost of interest.

It is maybe a little easier to show that fractional lending as we have it today is harmful and should be illegal, especially since it's really not widely known that 'the banks don't actually have all that money.' And therefore it's pretty much a fraudulent deal to borrow 'money' from a bank that they just create out of thin air.

Both of these problems are amplified and exacerbated by the monopoly of paper debt currency.

An alternative is hard currency (precious metals, etc), which, as Mako explains, does not preclude "usury", i.e. compounding interest. However it does change the landscape of credit options, and my belief is it would severely limit private credit expansion. And it does militate against fractional lending - not that it would go away (outside of legal banishment), but that there's built in disincentives for doing it. The risk of bank runs goes way up.

Also note that the Federal Reserve was created to (eventually) get rid of the gold standard, and to make money/credit creation as simple as running a printing press and entering numbers on a ledger.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 17:19 | 400477 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Waiting here for Mako to agree with you, faustian, that that is what he/she is trying to say.  Not holding my breath.

Wed, 06/09/2010 - 14:36 | 403881 Marla And Me
Marla And Me's picture

SWR, also note that from his writing style, I infer that Mako is an ESL, and that may hamper communications a bit.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 17:40 | 400513 Mako
Mako's picture

Overall, a very good post, I welcome the discussion in that directly.  I don't hold all the answers. 

"One implication is that the alternate path could be achieved by outlawing "usury""

I somewhat agree, actually the legal structure is already setup to handle it.  "Debt collectors" is a regulated activity, see your State code and Federal code for more information. 

Oh what the masses don't know.  Read Title 15 USC Ch. 41 Subchapter 5.

A debt collector is a public right that is statutorily codified in the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act, and the corresponding state law enacted in compliance to Title 16 CFR part 901.

15 U.S.C. § 1692a(6).

A "debt collector" as "any person who uses any instrumentality of interstate commerce or the mails in any business the principal purpose of which is the collection of any debts, or who regularly collects or attempts to collect, directly or indirectly, debts owed or due or asserted to be owed or due another".

Daniel GARRETT v.Richard S. DERBES, A Professional Law Corporation

Therefore, we hold that a person who, during a single nine-month period, attempts to collect debts owed another by 639 different individuals "regularly" attempts to collect debts owed another, and thus is a "debt collector" under § 1692a(6).

“ For these reasons, we agree with the Seventh Circuit that the Act     applies to attorneys who "regularly" engage in consumer-debt-   collection activity, even when that activity consists of litigation.    Its judgment is therefore  Affirmed.” Heintz v. Jenkins 514 US 291,299

OH MY attorneys that represent 3rd parties are debt collectors.... maybe all these guys should look in the code for their answers.

A debt is a legal fiction, humans give substance to the debt through contract called "obligation".   The problem is simply, humans want to deal in non-existent items and want to play make pretend.   Eventually this behavior effects all.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:07 | 399757 theopco
theopco's picture

Lol

the tea party died the day rupert murdoch started running it.

the Republicans are just positioning themselves to co-opt a popular movement.

And they are succeeding- If the tea party were for real, it would tell the Republicans to go blow.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:20 | 399794 hound dog vigilante
hound dog vigilante's picture

"If the tea party were for real, it would tell the Republicans to go blow..."

 

Um, that's EXACTLY what the Tea Party has been doing... various TP cells have routed multiple incumbent GOP reps. in their home state IN THE PRIMARIES.

If you think the TP has been co-opted by Fox/GOP, then explain Rand Paul's primary win. And explain Bennett getting the boot in UT. And Scott Brown in MA (SB ran w/o RNC endorsement/support).

Not sure where people get this idea that the Tea Partys are being pulled into the GOP... the facts clearly show Tea Partys are 'blowing up' the GOP... very positive and long overdue, IMO.

 

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:52 | 399872 theopco
theopco's picture

I guess you could look at it that way, sure.

They are definitely pulling the dialogue to the right.

Still a two-party corportist/entitlement system though. I don't see how they can change that, in the long term.

What we really need is reform of our electoral process.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:06 | 399911 hound dog vigilante
hound dog vigilante's picture

The Tea Partys may be too little, too late... but better late than never.

It just bugs me when folks who are pining for 'revolt' and 'change' refuse to acknowledge said revolt when it is staring them in the face...

Before this is over, the Tea Partys will be joined by a large number of betrayed liberals... the anti-war/anti-corporate crowd... it already happening, imo.

TPs don't NEED to win a congressional majority. The fact that the TP movement exists is enough to shift the political paradigm, which is a positive development no matter what happens next...

 

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:00 | 400054 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Before this is over, the Tea Partys will be joined by a large number of betrayed liberals... the anti-war/anti-corporate crowd... it already happening, imo.

Agree, and it will accelerate as the die hard libs like Taibbi finally figure it out and stop reflexively shouting "Oh, yeah, and Tea Baggers suck!" after every rant.  Some might actually find out that the corporatist-led old party takeover of the movement has failed almost completely.  Palin and Steele underestimated the genuineness of the movement (as do many here) and outed themselves and their motives with that ridiculous "National Tea Party" event that was held and was paid Palin to speak at. Epic FAIL.  False dichotomy; we've seen it so many times before that almost no one fell for it, but the nationalsocialprogressives needed someone to ridicule so they constantly bitch about Palin.  I got news for you guys: I can't stand her, either.  She's an idiot.  The republican party is pushing pretty faces like her and Dana Perino, another know-nothing, do-nothing, Murdoch talking head that they think can "energize" the "base". 

 

Tue, 06/08/2010 - 06:06 | 401152 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Palin is a "Wookie", without all the fur -- distracting folks from the real goings on.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 15:34 | 400275 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

"various TP cells have routed multiple incumbent GOP reps. in their home state" 

Yes sir they have. This is a political movement. The core of it is fiscal responsibility and smaller government. I think this is a legitimate desire of many.  The Repubs. that try to "latch on to it" that have a conflicting "ideological" past are going to get burned.

"Not sure where people get this idea that the Tea Party's are being pulled into the GOP"

By watching MSNBC etc. etc.

If you are unwilling to go out and read about all of the arguments concerning any political issue and form your own opinion and instead rely on TV to form your opinion for you, don't bother voting. Better yet, please euthanize yourself.

 

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:10 | 399891 bingaling
bingaling's picture

I still say it's past midnight even if the teabaggers get in the mess inherited is too great also I assure you you will see them get a big fat zero by the MSM when primetime elections roll around -

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:50 | 400036 MaximumPig
MaximumPig's picture

When the Tea Partiers realize that white people, too, get medicare, unemployment insurance and social security, which may only happen after the movement is stratified, institutionalized and bureaucratized, the Tea Party will experience the same sell-out dynamic that the dems and republicans have and the movement will fall apart.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 16:21 | 400334 superman07
superman07's picture

Racist douche.

go to a rally. no-one there gives a shit who is getting handouts. They just want them them stopped, and government to quite picking winners and lossers soley for re-election money and personal wealth / power. 

 

 

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 17:48 | 400540 MaximumPig
MaximumPig's picture

Fair point although I don't think it's racism I'm guilty of, just ignorance.  tell you what, i'll go to the next meeting on 6/21 in manhattan where I live and let you know what I think then.  I'm actually sympathetic to a lot of the TP points and have argued that there is a lot more in common between the sensible left and the sensible right (as both vs. corporate-DC mainstream) than most people think.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:30 | 399816 lesterbegood
lesterbegood's picture

The democraps and rethuglicans are not the only political party in America.

And who says that you have to vote for a party?

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:06 | 399912 Buzz Fuzzel
Buzz Fuzzel's picture

Who ever, how ever, what ever it's orgin we live on a self regulating world in a self regulating universe.  The arrogance of men, democrat or republican who believe they can improve on or overcome the self regulating nature of our world is about to be proven in spades.  Nothing is TOO BIG to fail.

 

 

 

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:37 | 399995 macfly
macfly's picture

yep, sadly thats the truth!

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:49 | 400033 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

A) Go become city hall.

B) There are more than two parties. Choose wisely.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 15:24 | 400256 qualia
qualia's picture

+1

 

Because Republicans have never been a part of the international banking establishment, nor under the influence of their lobbyists.  Back in the days of GWB and RR, we had responsible budgets and reasonable central banking.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:37 | 399667 Calculated_Risk
Calculated_Risk's picture

Unfortunately, I think McCain is going to end up back in office.... as with many others. People are just too dumb to get it. I'm praying I'm wrong.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:05 | 399752 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

But he won't last a full term

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:18 | 399790 centerline
centerline's picture

Most people I talk to actually respond with frustration and denial that the system could in fact be flawed and crash. I can't even get a shred of reality through to family! History will repeat itself. (sigh).

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:54 | 399717 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

Hopefully you are suggesting a 3rd party candidate(s) since the choices between the lesser of 2 evils (no idea which is which) has been an uber-fail so far.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:56 | 399719 bingaling
bingaling's picture

Even if a 3rd party candidate gets in at this point the cake is already baked - I think starting from scratch is where this all heads .

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:02 | 399740 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

And that would occur in an orderly fashion? Without Marshall law and mass imprisonment?

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:10 | 399767 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

Most likely not, IMO.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:11 | 399768 bingaling
bingaling's picture

Historically change has never happened in an orderly fashion (with the exception of maybe India being the closest to "orderly" even that was pretty fn ugly after independence)- It is going to be a mess - In my opinion it is past midnight and no matter who gets in office, the next five years + are going to be real ugly . I am not condoning lunatics or mobs in the streets I just think it is inevitable.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:11 | 400081 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

In my opinion it is past midnight and no matter who gets in office, the next five years + are going to be real ugly. I am not condoning lunatics or mobs in the streets I just think it is inevitable.

The teabaggers are total bullshit -what are they going to do ? cut everything ? We still owe what we owe.  Simple plan Default/ start from scratch(the system does not work ) and a real currency .

Tell me: do you believe you can sit in your home and watch while others settle these questions?  Do you understand what happens when no one is willing to stand up?  You might not be condoning mobs, but you are stopping just short of condoning them and merely stand aside and let what will be, be.  Will you continue to bitch about the results not being the system that you wanted?

Fine, then; hide and watch.  And if it makes you feel any better, call me a teabagger, you useless wallflower.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 16:07 | 400288 bingaling
bingaling's picture

SW - "stand aside and let what will be, be" is exactly what I plan to do. If you think you can jump in front of this freight train coming go ahead be my guest . My opinion is you are too late to stop it. Ron Paul may have been able to slow this thing a couple of years ago if he got elected but honestly the last chance to stop it was probably Ross Perot . Now it is inevitable . K9 has it right, IMO- I am not selling anything. I dont disagree with what you are doing I just believe your timing sucks .And I promise you I will not complain about the result of all of this .

Your friend , The Wallflower

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 17:36 | 400517 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

I got involved with genuine fiscal conservatism and small-l classical liberalism decades ago but no one wanted to hear about it. For that I blame many, especially the Fed.

I'm not trying to stop the wreck, I agree it's not stoppable.  I'm trying to be ready to influence the methods used in the cleanup.  It's the aftermath that worries me, that's where all the really bad decisions get hastily made.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:34 | 399825 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

FYI - It's called "martial law", as in wartime exigency.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:13 | 399932 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

. Dupe

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 15:08 | 400215 petridish
petridish's picture

"martial" law

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 16:33 | 400350 Yardfarmer
Yardfarmer's picture

it's spelled "martial". perhaps you have it confused with the Marshall Plan, the post WWII effort to rebuild Europe and in particular the devastated Germany. Ironically and oddly enough, that particular event has peculiar relevance to the subject under discussion here for it signaled the beginning of significant U.S. military and economic involvement on the continent in conjunction with the establishment of Bretton Woods and the beginning of our Keynesian nightmare It has been suggested by some that it was at that important juncture that plans began to be implemented for the creation of a United States of Europe a project which was later enthusiastically and covertly undertaken by the Council on Foreign Relations. This came to fruition some decades later with the creation of the Eu and the establishment of the Euro, the malign results of which we are now all to aware of.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:21 | 399796 Shrimp Head
Shrimp Head's picture

HA!  Like there is going to be ANY elections in November.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:32 | 399648 mikla
mikla's picture

Next in news:  "US Bank bailouts could similarly cost US Taxpayers hundreds of billions."  ;-)

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:33 | 399651 Calculated_Risk
Calculated_Risk's picture

Dear Slavemasters,

 Fuck off!

Sincerely,

The Slaves

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:43 | 399687 Mr. Anonymous
Mr. Anonymous's picture

I'M Spartacus!

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:59 | 399713 Mako
Mako's picture

The top of the pyramid scheme will survive longer and better than the slaves, they didn't get to that position by being stupid.  The families behind the scene have been there for centuries, they teach their children how the system works which is different than what the slaves are taught in schools.

The top of the pyramid scheme can only return you a percentage of the new bricks entering the scam, once the pyramid is maxed out and new bricks are not entering at the rate needed, the top can no longer give you what you have yet to produce. 

The top will capitalize on the fall just as much if not more than when it was going up, eventually you will hit a point where there is no more dead cat bounces and nothing left to short.  The top will go into hiberation for 30-70 years.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:17 | 399787 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

In your opinion, how big is this network of people who understand how the system works?  Would the CEO of BP be a part of it?  Would some % of those in congress be a part of it?  How large of a % of congress?  Are all of the members of the supreme court a part of the network?  When Greenspan advocated for the gold standard, was he outside the network and was he then invited in?  Just in general... I know there is no totally right or wrong answer... but in general, who is in on the plan?

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:24 | 399799 Mako
Mako's picture

Most of those people are the slave handlers, they are raised with the slave children.  The top are the families that go back many generations that make Bill Gates money look like chump change.  The profit on the way up and the way down, then hiberation.  

It's not a plan, that is how the system works, this system is easiest to implement.  Lemmings are lemmings by choice, the top get the lemmings walking in the right direction by the use of Ben and others.   The top keep it in the family and are not on TV like these rest of these bozos.  I mean why should they lie when they can just hire someone to do it. 

 

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:19 | 399949 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Rich without being famous - what a dream. (sigh) You can try to enlighten fellow slaves all you like...but nothing save external violence will wake them up - it's too much of a dream state.

"If there is hope, it lies in the proles." Too late. Thanks, Winston, for trying...

It is already here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Theory_and_Practice_of_Oligarchical_Col...

---

Here's how to survive:

http://www.survivalblog.com/2010/06/lessons_in_survival_from_rural.html

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:36 | 399991 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture

And how do you know this construct to be true?

Is this pure speculation on your part, or are you personally connected to the top of this system in some way?

Do you have any kind of information that you can reveal which documents conclusively the existence of this system? Or is this simply conjecture based on your perception of how things must work?

 

Just asking.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:44 | 400005 Mako
Mako's picture

The same families you always hear about but never see.   Go do some digging around. 

The lie is the same lie that's been told for many many generations, if you have to ask if you are the top than you are not the top.   The next system is going to end the exact same way if the lemmings pick the same path, the top will be there to guide you to the path they prefer. 

This world lives in a fantasy... debt inflationary ponzi scheme.   The people at the top of the pyramid scheme know fully well what the end result of the equation is.  The same as it always has been.

 

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:14 | 400092 Kali
Kali's picture

Talking Heads "Same as it ever was"

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 16:35 | 400360 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

Also, "Things fall apart...it's scientific."

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 15:07 | 400212 Calculated_Risk
Calculated_Risk's picture

Check out The Shadows of Power.. give is pretty good primer.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:40 | 400009 Vasco7777
Vasco7777's picture

How is Bill Gates money acting or looking like chump change?  I'm not understanding that part of your argument.  There is plenty of new money around and a lot of it is substantial.  

Old connections, power, inner circle sort of influencing is another matter.  Some old money is tapped out because it derived from old industry while others remain entrenched.

I enjoy your comments but am struggling with this one.  Are you suggesting the "real top" has hidden wealth?  Or is it more a case of the newer money still being heavily paper based or what?

http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/03/americas-richest-families-walton-rockef...

These are the old money families...

Then there are the indviduals...with Gates on top, easily.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/09/30/forbes-400-gates-buffett-wealth-rich-li...

Best as I can tell, Gates is no chump by any measure.

 

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:55 | 400029 Mako
Mako's picture

"Some old money is tapped out because it derived from old industry while others remain entrenched."

Oh they could careless about industry, they have no preference to what is being produced and sold, they just need the benefit.   You could be making and selling fake plastic dog do-do. 

They know the end of the system will come just like the time before that and the time before that... like a clock ringing at the top of the hour.  

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:10 | 400079 Vasco7777
Vasco7777's picture

"Oh they could careless about industry, they have no preference to what is being produced and sold, they just need the benefit.   You could be making and selling fake plastic dog do-do."

Not my point but let me try it this way.  Who are "they?"  If not those on the Forbes list, whether new or old money, who then are you talking about?  

The wealthiest people tend to gather in enclaves, high taxes, great schools, country clubs yadda yadda yadda.  I live in one of those places though am hardly wealthy.  That said, if not Aspen, Boston, Greenich, Palo Alto...etc.  

I'm still wondering how Bill Gates is chump change.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:34 | 399654 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Sorry, too late.......you been under a ROCK?.

" The only thing ‘too big to fail’ is America itself.”

 
   

 

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:34 | 399655 ZackAttack
ZackAttack's picture

Teach 'em a lesson: voting to allow a bailout is career suicide.  

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:03 | 400064 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Voting against a bailout is career suicide. Getting voted out of public office is just a stepping stone to a lucrative corporate gig.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:38 | 399669 john_connor
john_connor's picture

I thought Obama already rebuked this and said he can authorize w/o congressional approval because it would interfere with his ability "to conduct foreign policy matters."

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:18 | 399789 dumpster
dumpster's picture

john .. nice article on gold seek 

good read ,, thanks

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:00 | 399893 knukles
knukles's picture

Conducting What?

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:12 | 400084 john_connor
john_connor's picture

http://image.examiner.com/x-39852-DC-RNC-Examiner~y2010m5d13-Republicans-Seek-to-Block-Greek-IMF-Bailout

"President Barack Obama has asserted in a signing statement after a House vote on an IMF provision that he doesn’t recognize Congress’ ability to tell the administration how to vote at the IMF. Such a restriction, the president said, “would interfere with my constitutional authority to conduct foreign relations.”

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:39 | 399674 Calculated_Risk
Calculated_Risk's picture

On a different note.. anyone see drudgereport??? Got the debt/GDP as a headline with a sinking ship.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:49 | 399685 Mako
Mako's picture

It's an end to the system.

Peak - 2007 ($4.7T annualized)

Unable to expand - 2008 ($2T annualized)

Credit creation negative - 2009 (-$600B annualized)

Next collapse

Then liquidation

See Federal Reserve Z1 data for details.

 

See ya in a generation or two. 

I don't know what the Congress woman is talking about, there is just one global system.  Just like China has no choice other than to help support the UST market.  Let me know how the mushroom cloud over China look when they stop buying those. 

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:44 | 399689 percolator
percolator's picture

Rep. McMorris Rodgers says “The only thing ‘too big to fail' is America itself.”

The way things are going the only thing that will fail is the USA.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:44 | 399691 Species8472
Species8472's picture

introduced a Congressional Resolution

Why  not a law to stop it?

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:23 | 399804 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

She's talking out her pie hole.

"We're going to do everything in our power to..."

"We need to reform..."

"We resolve to..."

"We need stronger legislation..."

quack quack quack

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:49 | 399699 Rainman
Rainman's picture

IMF was never intended to be a bailout mechanism for developed European countries. It was meant to be a bottomless pit for worldwide risky investment in corrupted emerging nations.

The gall of these people.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:09 | 399765 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

LOL!

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:16 | 399785 Lux Fiat
Lux Fiat's picture

Think you mispelled - gall should have been Gaul....

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 16:45 | 400386 Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture

Think you corrected someone without:

A)  Knowing what you're talking about, or

B)  Taking the trouble to look up how to spell gall before you told someone they were misspelling something.  You have a lot of Bauls.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:50 | 399867 taraxias
taraxias's picture

No, the IMF was intended to be a wealth transfer mechanism for the natural resources and other strategic physical assets of smaller nations to the money cartel in return for freshly printed FRNs.

 

 

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:29 | 400127 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

One of its purposes. It has obviously others as it operates now in different seas.

 

My belief is that the IMF tests solutions serving a certain goal.

For example, when the IMF forces a solution on a country including a 50 pc tax on labour and a 1pc tax on property, I see in it a live test of what might happen when resources start to dwindle, reducing the capability to support labour.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:51 | 399708 dumpster
dumpster's picture

comment field

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:57 | 399725 Rockfish
Rockfish's picture

NOTICE:

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:57 | 399728 onlooker
onlooker's picture

Democrats and Republicans may both be liars and thieves. If the control can be split with the Republicans in control of the Senate, there will at least be a different fox in the hen house. If the House and Senate can be split, political revenge/pressure will be a safe guard. VOTE this election and no matter which party, get the incumbents out.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 11:59 | 399735 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Is it just me or does the IMF sound just like the FDIC?  Maybe they can pull 3 years of payments ahead from all member nations?  That ought to last them a month or two.

It's now gone from just spinning plates to spinning plates while on a tightrope...  pretty soon, we'll have to balance on a bear's shoulder's while its riding a unicycle on the tight rope...  or maybe even Ogre and the rest of the Alpha Betas are going to be jerking on the rope trying to throw us...  ridiculous.

I can certainly appreciate a can't die attitude...  but, if you're going to go down in flames for ideals, at least make sure they're somewhat rooted in reality. 

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:01 | 399738 Josephine29
Josephine29's picture

These numbers are concerning and I notice that the same people who say these things will not cost us a dime are having to come back to us 6 months or a year later to ask for more. I was first alerting to problems with the IMFs funding and the cures proposed by the increase in its funding planned at last years G20 meeting by the notayesmanseconomics web blog.

"I have a question for my readers here and it relates to the recent increase in loan capital for the IMF. This was announced to great fanfare at the April 2009 G20 meeting by the UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown. He announced it as if it was a rabbit from a hat. However there are potential implication from it, for example what would happen if some of the money was lent and the loan was not repaid? Who is then liable? Has there in any country been a debate on this? As the largest player the biggest potential burden is on the taxpayers of the United States but all G20 countries are involved and liable. This strikes me as an off-balance sheet liability for the taxpayers of the G20 nations."

As time goes by these questions look more and more relevant to me. The link is http://notayesmanseconomics.wordpress.com

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:21 | 399969 MichiganMilitiaMan
MichiganMilitiaMan's picture

I am tired of and beyond asking questions.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:40 | 400149 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

+1

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:02 | 399741 Howard Bork
Howard Bork's picture

Congressman Timothy Johnson (Illinois) has also been vocal against the IMF bailout, as illustrated in the link below:

http://timjohnson.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=29&sectiontree=7,29&itemid=340

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:09 | 399761 Crook County
Crook County's picture

“Every Member of Congress should go on record – either ‘yay’ or ‘nay’ – on whether or not U.S. tax dollars should go to a Euro-TARP,”

 

fuckin-A!

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:15 | 399783 buzlightening
buzlightening's picture

Paper ponzi crimex doing well today! Don't know? Most likely a hollow play when 100% possession is the law among the lawless!! http://www.goldseek.com/ 

Short term debt rollover goona kill all cash to trash!!

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:47 | 399850 RichardP
RichardP's picture

Money exists to facilitate commerce.  Commerce exists to meet a need.  What happens to commerce - and money - when everyone pretty much has what they need?  What does "start over from scratch" mean in that context?  Who is going to buy your output when everyone pretty much has everything they need?

OK!  So we will focus on poor folks (all around the world) who don't have what they need.  Commerce could meet a need there.  But what does "start over from scratch" mean re. the poor folks - when capital, raw materials, and the means of production are all controlled by the folks who created the current situation?  Who starts over from scratch?  The whole world could collapse and capital, raw materials, and the means of production still won't change hands.

Micro-loans are facilitating the commerce which is meeting the needs of poor folks in some parts of the wold.  But the increasing use of micro-loans is "morphing".  It is not "starting over from scratch".

"Starting over from scratch" requires the have-nots to gain control of capital, raw materials, and the means of production.  That ain't gonna happen.  A world-wide "French Revolution" might place control of these things into the hands of the have-nots.  But in short order, it would be snatched out of their hands by folks smarter and/or stronger than they are.  Look at history, and look around you today.  That is the way the world has always worked.  Venting on this site won't change that.

The world is going to morph into something different, just like it always has and probably always will.  But the entire world is not going to start over from scratch and no invisible hand is going to press a global (as opposed to local) reset button.

You personally can start over from scratch (live locally, not globally).  But not enough other folks will to make a difference.

 

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:57 | 399881 theopco
theopco's picture

Thanks for cheering me up, dude.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:12 | 399929 primefool
primefool's picture

Yep - dem pofolk are gonna have to fend fer themselves. If they want capital from the rich folk they are going to offer something in return - skilled labor. Fat, unhealthy, unskilled, whiney poor folk with extremely high expectations - alas may well have nothing to offer. Maybe they can get charity for a while.

There are no jobs goes the cry. So I ask - I assume there are no jobs because you folk have no unmet needs? Oh you do have unmet needs? There ya go that is called a job.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:00 | 399892 Carpet Pisser
Carpet Pisser's picture

More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.
  - Woody Allen

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:15 | 399947 TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

Can we get the list of banks the money is going to in Europe?

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 13:17 | 399951 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

For the ultimate example of crony-ism, how about this....

" His uncle, Dr. Boutros Boutros Ghali, is a former Secretary-General of the United Nations."

All these parasites are from the same lineage. The narrow top of the pyramid is more and more exposed.

But we can make a difference. Only not within the system, but from it's ashes. Not from it's asses.

www.squareandc.net

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:59 | 400194 RichardP
RichardP's picture

"But we can make a difference. ... from it's ashes."

How?  Only those who control the capital, raw materials, and means of production can ever make a difference.  The rest of us can only react.  When has it ever been any different?

 

 

Tue, 06/08/2010 - 01:28 | 401045 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

With a new vision Richard. All great change came when a sufficient number of people were fired up by a new vision.

And it rose from within, thesis and anti-thesis are co-dependent.

I'm not philosophizing. My tech-no-logical vision, as an example is like that of a bricoleur, take what we have, but with a new vision you can simply rearrange things in absolutely magical ways.

It would take a lot more than a post-reply, but please visit my site, if you feel called and look around and ask yourself, is anything in this industrial paradigm even remotely in tune with me (as in with you)?

I'd say not.

So rid yourself of things that feel uncomfortable, switch off the TV and answers start to suggest themselves.

The best answers are in plain sight. We've made our lives burdensome without reason.

Even world changing visions start as little springs that merge into a rushing torrent.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:23 | 400112 cdskiller
cdskiller's picture

Let's stop the partisan stuff, okay. Much of the bailout of AIG, which happened under Bush, went to foreign counterparty pockets. Tell your Democratic representatives to support McMorris Rodgers' bill. Period. 

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 15:26 | 400258 qualia
qualia's picture

+1

Turns out, Nader, Chomsky, et. al., were dead on about this being nonpartisan.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:31 | 400132 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

"the IMF is essentially insolvent in its current form..."

Great! Let's Shut the Bitch Down!
Get Bobble Head Sheila Bair to hack this thing up...

We can sell the IMF DC Hq to Goldman since there are soooooo many GS Sodomites in DC anyway...

Hey Lloyd B. God
Are you interested in 700 19th Street, N.W. at a bargain price?

Bitch like you can't pass up a steal...

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 14:51 | 400170 Clayton Bigsby
Clayton Bigsby's picture

I think Mako needs some pussy or a drink or both

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 15:07 | 400211 JR
JR's picture

Speaking of the pleasures of taxpayer rape, in case you missed it:

SIX GIANT BANKS MADE $51 BILLION LAST YEAR; THE OTHER 980 LOST MONEY by Robert Lenzner, 06.03.10 | Forbes

Focus hard on this shocking Wall Street reality: The top six bank holding companies earned an aggregate of $51 billion in pretax income in 2009. We're talking about JPMorgan Chase, Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, Morgan Stanley, Citigroup and Wells Fargo.

All of this pretax income can be attributed to their trading revenues of $59.7 billion. The proprietary trading operations of an oligopoly of banks, saved from disaster by Uncle Sam's largesse and subsidized with cheap money from the central bank, was the single driving force behind the restoration of their fortunes and the renewed surge in their stock prices.

For those willing to go long when the outlook was the bleakest, they've banked a double in JPMorgan Chase, scored a quadruple in Citigroup and nearly a quintuple in BofA.

Some of the other 980 bank holding companies--like Bank of New York Mellon, PNC Financial Services, U.S. Bancorp and M&T Bank--lost an aggregate of $19 billion for the 2009 year. Bank of New York Mellon had the seventh-largest trading revenue--it was just 1.6% of the total. By comparison, Goldman Sachs had 36.2%, Bank of America 18.8%, JPMorgan Chase 15.4%, Morgan Stanley 11.3%, Citigroup 6.9% and Wells Fargo 4.2%…

Even more fascinating for public policy reasons, Goldman Sachs' trading revenue was 119% of its own pretax income. Bank of America's trading was 262.8% of its pretax income and Morgan Stanley's trading was an incredible 849.4% of its pretax income…

Even more amazing, Goldman Sachs, Bank of America and JPMorgan Chase did not lose money during any single trading session of the 2010 first quarter. This astonishing performance underscores the casino the oligopoly has become. It bears testament to the payoff from the Wall Street bailout of 2008, which resulted in the elimination of competition and the concurrent strengthening of the few giants left standing.

They have taken advantage of their opportunity to grow more powerful by absorbing crippled institutions like Merrill Lynch and Wachovia. JPM's trading revenue is up 127% over a year ago; Morgan Stanley's is up 176%. …

Public policy has benefited the oligopoly at the cost of hurting some of the other 980 bank holding companies in the nation…

It's just plain unfair to subsidize the oligopoly while penalizing the regional banks with a tax to prepare for the next too-big-to-fail episode. Because sooner or later a member of the oligopoly is going to climb out on a limb and need rescuing.

Maybe the price-earnings multiple and the premium over book value for this oversized oligopoly should be penalized by the marketplace. Burst the potential bank bubble now. (emphasis mine)

http://www.forbes.com/2010/06/03/goldman-sachs-citigroup-markets-lenzner...

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 15:24 | 400255 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Thanks for this link/info.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 15:42 | 400286 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

+ !!!!

Beautiful!  Thanks for this link.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 15:37 | 400280 jkruffin
jkruffin's picture

Somehow, someway, the American people must stand up collectively and demand Geithner and Bernanke be removed from office and tried for crimes against Americans.  It must happen somehow to send the message to these crooks in Congress and other Presidential appointed positions they are not above the law and certainly not above the people.  Do we need to go back to old fashion lynch mobs again to stop this mess.

Mon, 06/07/2010 - 16:48 | 400393 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Lets not forget Alan G (for Genius)

 

Hank Paulson

 

Larry Summers

 

Bob Rubin

 

Please add as many names to this list as you like.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!