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Conscious Capitalism, And Open Thread
Zero Hedge will be out of pocket for several hours: please use this post as an open thread opportunity to discuss how honest and transparent the government economic data dissemination complex is, how efficient the stock market is, how free of monopoly the Wall Street Fixed Income trading complex is, how altruistic the Federal Reserve is, and everything else that tickles your fancy. In the meantime, here is the latest controversial, and very much must read letter from Mike Krieger: Conscious Capitalism.
From Mike Krieger of Kam LP
Conscious Capitalism
Action alone is the province, never the fruits thereof.
Let not thy motive be the fruit of action, nor shouldst thou desire to avoid action.
- The Bhagavad Gita
Renunciation means absence of hankering after fruit.
As a matter of fact he who renounces reaps a thousandfold.
He who is ever brooding over result often loses nerve in the performance of his duty.
He becomes impatient and then gives vent to anger and begins to do unworthy things;
He jumps from action to action, never remaining faithful to any.
- Mahatma Ghandi
A Merging of the “Left” and the “Right”
During my most recent interview with Max Keiser I briefly introduced a concept that I referred to as “conscious capitalism” and I promised to expound on this idea in future writings. When I look around me I see a lot of encouraging signs but I also see a political, military and industrial establishment that is fighting with all its might to squash what I think could be a very powerful merging of forces on both the motivated and moral “left” and “right” sides of the political spectrum. As I have mentioned previously I tend to be libertarian philosophically yet I find myself in agreement with many of those who the mainstream media tells me are on the “other side.” Side issues like who is “racist” and the ground zero mosque are used to emotionally separate us and we must not give into such tactics. I think the most important thing for people that really want to change things for the better and lessen the stranglehold of the current corrupt and dependency/warfare model that is the United States of America should do two things. First, find the issues that we can agree upon and secondly as Ghandi instructed us “be the change that you want to see in the world” and spread this idea to everyone you come in contact with. We must remember that we have the ultimate power as individuals and consumers and at the end of the day this nasty little system we’ve got going survives based on our compliance whether we want to admit that or not.
What are the Main Issues we can Agree On?
End the Fed. I think the first issue to be dealt with is the Federal Reserve. Either it needs to be castrated or ended. As I have said before I think we are already on the road to achieving this end but we can’t give up now. The keys to ending the Fed in its current form are several fold. The first is to educate the masses on how and when the Fed was formed, what the Fed is, and finally who it ultimately answers to. Secondly, we need to support Congressmen like Ron Paul in their bi-partisan efforts to “Audit the Fed” or audit the gold reserves in Fort Knox. Despite having had considerable support from Congressional Democrats the bill was not passed as Mr. Paul intended and indeed the Fed was given more powers in that laughing stock of a Financial Reform Bill. Many will view this as a setback and in some ways it was; however, it was also a victory in that it served to “awaken” a growing percentage of the citizenry to how things work and to recognize that the Congress does not listen to the will of the people but rather protects the corrupt establishment at all costs. Having the power to create money and credit out of thin air, the Federal Reserve is the ultimate tool of the establishment and the noose around the necks of us serfs. When we have forced the Fed to respond to our inquiries their response in all cases is to grab further power and fight to avoid any disclosures of the actions they have taken in the shadows. Whereas truth can always shine through even the darkest night, lies must be compounded upon themselves indefinitely to maintain themselves. To quote Ghandi yet again: “The wicked can prevail only when they number multitudes, but goodness will rule when embodied to perfection even in one person.” This is a man who was able to boot the most powerful empire the world has ever seen using nonviolent methods. I think we can learn a lot from him.
End the Warfare State. When 9/11 happened I was working in the World Financial Center. I saw the buildings come down with my own two eyes. I saw the people falling out of the towers. I was scared and traumatized and for a while felt like I needed the government to protect me. Initially I was willing to give up some civil liberties to achieve some sense of comfort. I have since realized the grave error of my ways and I now shudder to think of the police state the establishment is trying to move us toward. Yesterday I read an article about how a Virginia court has upheld the right of police to place a GPS tracking device on a car without a warrant. Article can be found here http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/crime/Va-appeals-court-upholds-tracking-suspects-with-GPS-102431294.html. Someone tell me how this does not violate the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution? This is really terrifying stuff. What is so hard about getting warrant? Is this the type of country we want to live in? Beyond this, there is a clear trend toward more invasive screening tactics to prevent terrorism. The bottom line is this, if someone wants to blow something up or hurt people they will do it. Furthermore, instead of us sheepishly just giving away whatever self-respect we have left so that Janet Napolitano can scan your naked body before getting on a plane how about we stop invading countries in the Middle East and killing people. Sounds like a good start to me.
End the Stranglehold of the Large Banks, Multi-National Corporations and Unproductive and Overpaid Government Workers. When you look at the latest polls about what Americans have faith in at the top of the list is small business and at the bottom are Congress and the Banks. This is perfectly rational as everyone that has observed with an unbiased eye how things have unfolded since the financial crisis occurred has seen that the political establishment and Fed have made it their primary order of business to protect the big banks, big corporations and the overpaid and bloated public sector at the expense of the productive and hardworking citizenry and at the end of the day what they have really sacrificed is our currency (this will become painfully obvious soon enough) and our standing in the rest of the world (we are now seen as the third world banana republic we are).
First, the large banks. If there is anything anyone that dislikes the system as it stands should be against it is the TBTF (Too Big To Fail) banks. They played a huge role in destroying the global financial system and the long-term wealth creation mechanism of the United States. Not only that, but as a punishment for their sins they have taken taxpayer bailouts, paid enormous bonuses while 35 million Americans entered the food stamp breadline, fought real reform every step of the way (successfully I might add) and the executives have escaped punishment. We protect these banks as if they are some sort of national treasure. The one trend that becomes clear when it comes to the banks, the Fed and the power players in Washington D.C. is the more you screw up the more power you get. It is amazingly Orwellian.
As far as the Unproductive and Overpaid government sector I am not going to spend much time on it myself. Rather, I ask you to listen to this compelling interview given by Stephen Meister to King World News http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2010/9/4_Stephen_Meister.html. One of the key points he makes is that there are 7.9 million public sector union members and that for the first time in 2009 there are now more public union members than private sector union members (7.4 million). More importantly, the private sector workforce is five times as large as the public sector workforce so what you get is a situation where union membership is 34% in the public sector and 7% in the private sector. A lot of “conservatives” like to demonize auto unions and the like but the real issue is the public sector unions. He goes on to point out that at least at a private company there is a profit motive and so if the unions push too far they end up hurting themselves. Not so with a government union since there is no profit motive and their pay is just subsidized by the taxpayer! To summarize, what are we subsidizing? The TBTF banks, the war machine, a growing police state, and public sector unions that keep taking more and more. Everything is completely backwards. We live in and participate in a complete and total insane asylum.
Finally, the multi-nationals. As many are starting to understand we do not live in a world of “free trade” we live in a world of rigged trade where China manipulates its currency lower to keep the labor arbitrage alive. Due to rising inflation and wages in the coastal areas this is beginning to change, but the key is not to have companies now move from China to Vietnam or Mexico. We need jobs here. Our days of pushing paper around as a nation of traders, lawyers and bureaucrats is OVER. We don’t know it yet since the currency crisis hasn’t fully shown up in commodity inflation but it is happening underneath the surface. As a result, it is key to get producing jobs back to American shores as soon as possible. That way we will be able to provide for ourselves better after the currency loses much of its purchasing power abroad. This will not be easy but it is necessary. Furthermore, the longer we export such jobs abroad and continue to just collect food stamps, day-trade and file lawsuits the less skills we will have here to do the necessary things when the time comes.
Implementing Conscious Capitalism
So now we are back full circle to the idea of conscious capitalism. Back in 2002 in my personal journal I wrote a little essay titled “Ambivalence Toward Capitalism.” I decided to go back and read it before writing today and one of the lines stuck out to me. I wrote: “In my opinion capitalism is the best form of society that has graced this earth and yet is the worst form of ideology that has ever become so widely accepted.” What I meant by this was that I saw the inherent dangers of using a system based in large part on the selfish desires prevalent in mankind. Harnessing the abilities of man to produce, innovate and create to the best of his or her ability by offering rewards is essentially what capitalism does when it works well. However, what has become abundantly clear as of late is that if the society itself is immoral then capitalism will fail to function and it can be as destructive as any other system. This is where I disagree with many libertarians AND big government folks. There is nothing wrong with some limited federal government and there is nothing wrong with capitalism, where we get into problems is when we view either as a panacea or a religion. This is because they are both merely systems devised by imperfect human beings and as such will ultimately reflect the morality and ethics of the human beings interacting within that system. The United States has become in recent years, decadent, aggressive, immoral and brainwashed by television and mainstream media. As such, should we really be surprised that nothing seems to work whether it be Federal government or capitalism?
At the end of the day I still think as long as human nature remains the same capitalism is the best thing we’ve got. The reason it is the best thing we have come up with is because at the end of the day it is not something we came up with. Real capitalism, as opposed to the crony capitalism we have today, consists of the natural state of affairs in complex societies. As is wisely noted over and over in the epic Bhagavad Gita, we run into trouble when we become obsessed with the “fruits of action” since then we would lie, cheat and steal to achieve ones ends. However, those that attempt to demonize capitalism must understand that if the moral base of a society is unchanged it doesn’t matter what system is in place it will eventually become corrupt and tyrannical.
Therefore, what I think is of paramount importance in today’s America is we need to get a grip on reality as it is not as we wish to see it. The first thing is to understand how the financial system operates and how the Federal Reserve controls it. The second thing is to spread this knowledge to everyone you know. The third and final stage, which is the one we are entering in my view, is to be the change you want to see in the world. The most effective way to protest the system is to shed counterfeit money for honest money. This means for everyone that has the means to should sell a certain percent of their dollars and buy physical gold. If we did this the Fed would be history tomorrow. More importantly, once this happens the last thing we should do is accept another fiat currency devised by these same insane academics and central bankers that want to push this ridiculous idea of an SDR on us. Other things people can do is to look at their own lives and be more thoughtful about what bank one uses or what products one buys. I do not bank at the TBTFs and this is a conscious choice. This is conscious capitalism. Buying local goods produced nearby rather than something produced by Asian slave labor is another way. If we do these things based on a sense of morality, then not only can we get back to real capital markets rather than praying to the false god of crony capitalism, but indeed we can change the world through a paradigm shift in our collective consciousness.
All the best,
Mike
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Open Thread Bitchez!
+1000
Boy, is this guy clueless. As a youth, my dad fancied himself a juvenile delinquent, but nonetheless graduated valedictorian and was awarded a scholarship @ a leading university. One day, his father, in exasperation with the duck tail, suede shoes, etc, warned him to never play pool with someone who had to feed a family. In other words, when punch came to shove, dilettantes such as my father were given a first-hand demonstration of how the world really worked.
Likewise, we have here our fair-hair child who authored this homage to naivete & wishful thinking. Michael, here's some potentially useful advice: it matters not a whit what you wish, it only matters what the psychopaths in charge want for themselves. The people playing the game at the highest levels are well beyond the satiation level; now, it's simply a means to stave off boredom.
The power-elite already ripped everyone off for $trillions during the bailouts; there isn't any more money to be made on the upside. But the problem is, they're bored. (Ever hear the line that goes something like this "Show me a super-model, and I'll show you someone who's bored of fucking that super-model".) At this level, money itself isn't the primary driver, it's the dopamine rush from achieving the next big score.
In this context, the next big opportunity is to short the crash and take all the pieces across the board. Who will make the move? Will it be a foreign entity like Russia or China, or a domestic player like the MIC or even a banking judas goat?
The USA has placed its continuing political solvency in the hands of the Fed. In turn, the Fed has exposed itself to an incredible degree of vulnerability by telegraphing its positions & asset support mechanisms. Take down the Fed, take down the USA.
Fix the problem? You've got to be kidding me. With this much at stake tantalizing those who would be king, it's all there just waiting for anyone to step up and grab it. Who benefits? Who's got the balls?
So...somebody takes it all. Then what?
Then they realize the truth of what Alexander himself discovered 2,300 years ago:
There are no more worlds to conquer!
Statement portrayed as a quotation in a 1927 Reader's Digest article, this probably derives from traditions about Alexander lamenting at his father's Philip's victories that there would be no conquests left for him, or that after his conquests in Egypt and Asia there were no worlds left to conquer.
Some of the oldest accounts of this, as quoted by John Calvin state that on "hearing that there were other worlds, wept that he had not yet conquered one."
Never underestimate the matrix. anything can and does happen. raw power is at the controls, and the only determinant is that there is none. it's not the fruits we're attached to, it's the forbidden fruit.
Thanks to ZH, B9K9, and CD. This is the Most insightful board on the net.
On the tube we get 90% garbage, 10% stuff we can use.
Here, we swap, 90% stuff we use, 10% garbage.
Thanks to all who contribute to ourselves. BEST BOARD on the NET.
I like that, "Never underestimate the Matrix."
Here's some tradable knowledge.
The S&P topped today. It will start a new downtrend tomorrow. Support at 1075.
It's forming a triangle. I don't know which way the triangle will resolve. Maybe down.
It will hit 1080-1085 first, and if it breaks that... SPLAT. If 1080 to 1085 holds, it will break previous resistance at 1130 perhaps.
Point and figure charts show a target of 1160, but I don't know if I'd buy that.
Johnny Bravo - the best trader on ZH
Do you really believe technical analysis will make you $ over the long-run? Every single piece of evidence I've seen refutes this concept. Not bashing you like everyone else on this board. Just wondering if you really believe in TA?
Honestly, I believe that it will. It's done well for me so far, and even when I don't trade on it, it's been right more often than not.
Another reason why it's valid is because HFT algorithms use TA to make decisions. When 70% of the trades in the world are based on TA computer algorithms, it's valid.
Besides, what's the alternative?
We've already seen that markets haven't been trading on fundamentals. Hold and Pray doesn't work.
TA has been very right, as far as I've been concerned. The trick is to get as many perspectives as possible and trade with tight stops.
What evidence are you speaking of that it doesn't work? I would like to know. It's paid for my college education, personally.
Watch the S&P drop tomorrow, and then tell me if TA works or not. I'm not being snotty, I'm just betting that the S&P will drop, and my analysis is based on TA.
hey a johnboy!
i play a the technicals a too. it called always bet on a red and a double your bet until you a win.
even a genius a like you can a do it.
TA is a also like a tits and a ass. i bet on a you mama you wish you could a play the technicals on a that TA.
hey, but you still a the best a trader on a the zerohedge! you a play with all the TA the internet have a to offer.
bravo, johnboy!
So far S&P not dropping...
Nope, SP up 6 points
Tell our traders to advise their clients to buy pork bellies at 44.
Mr. Valentine has set the price !!!!
hey Kid?...pssst...want some more uppers? Oh you Fiat rambo, act like you are on uppers. Relax, shut the fuck up and learn from your betters.
Oh yea, your young and smarter. It doesnt last. Gold will survive whilst you and i shall perish young superhero of the fiatpaper.
Back to ignoring you, its what you deserve for being a shill.
Tell our traders to advise their clients to buy pork bellies at 44.
Mr. Valentine has set the price !!!!
I agree, and I think B9K9 is really asking the right questions, because he is a realist, not an idealist.
Thank you B9K9 for your realism.
Please consider what I view as the best analogy for what is going on, "the tapeworm economy", as described by Catherine Austin Fitts :
http://solari.com/realdeal.htm
Now here's the central question : what happens when we pull resources from the tapeworm (basically, buying physical Gold or any other valuable hard asset from our savings)
1. will the tapeworm react and can it react by stoping us from pulling such resources once it starts really bothering him?
2. does starving the tapeworm to death eventually kill the host?
Basically, is it feasible to kill the tapeworm and can it be done without killing the host?
And who is this tapeworm?
Is it the Fed, the ECB, the PBoC, the BoJ, the big international banks, the Mainstream Media, or are those just the tools the tapeworm uses to inject the host with the chemical (CREDIT) that makes him crave for more? Or is it the small elite group of billionaire financial oligarchs and their families who, despite their competing interests, control the tapeworm's tools and benefit from most of the drainage?
Governments? To the tapeworm, they are just slaves, like everyone else in the host.
Obviously, we're at the stage when the biggest part of the host (the so called developped economies of the OECD) is so saturated and addicted to that chemical that the tapeworm can't drain further resources from it using that mechanism. But to the tapeworm it doesn't matter, the developped part is so saturated with that chemical that it can drain all there is left from it without any further injections (a deflationary depression) or drain it even faster with one last deadly injection (a hyperinflationary collapse). And the tapeworm will now focus its attention to the smaller undevelopped part, which anyway offers a far larger drainage potential with its 5 billion uneducated slaves ready and willing to be injected with its chemical.
Some might disagree, but I think that as long as we, the people, are mired in all these perfectly useless ideological paradigms, left/right, Libertarian/Socialist, Austrian/Keynesian, etc... we're fucked, and the tapeworm is loving it. For the tapeworm has always succeeded in draining maximum resources from the host in every political or ideological system, whether crony communist USSR or crony capitalist USA or crony social democratic Europe. The only time when the tapeworm didn't exercise its deleterious activities has been when those parts of the host were so small, or offered so little drainage potential, that the tapeworm didn't even bother with it.
Basically, as long as there is going to be money, property, and power associated with them, there will be the possibility that such things are accumulated so that a crony "tapeworm economy" develops. It doesn't matter what the monetary system is, what the socio economic model is, what the political system is, the tapeworm derives its control over the host from accumulation and drain.
Can we kill the tapeworm without killing the host, and how do we do it? That's where our focus should be.
Which is what led Alexander to wind up dead in Afghanistan, at the ripe old age of 33. Even he didn't conquer the Afghans, aside from a small part, and the country has been known as the graveyard of civilizations for centuries...
he died in Babylon, 323 BC
The US has conquered the Afghans. If Alexander were king of the USA, there would be piles of Afghan skulls lined up on their shitty roads - extermination may be the only way to deal with those backward people, and it would serve as an example to the rest of the world.
These moves will only be possible after the Republic falls and the Empire is in full swing, which will only happen when the wealthy feel threatened that the poor will want to redistribute the wealth (which happens to be the only way to fix the economy which is caught in a deflationary death spiral.)
Here's what
happens, and at
the bottom of the
page is "A Little
Night Music" for
The Wealthiest
Country On Earth
www.americancasinothemovie.com/synopsis
"The Myth of the rule of law":
http://faculty.msb.edu/hasnasj/GTWebSite/MythWeb.htm
You say you want a revolution?
Check out:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block165.html
Great links...thanks
OK, I'll ask. Who has the balls? Name some names B9K9.
I appreciate that you spend a great deal of time on your posts and you're obviously intelligent. So rather than tell all us lower intelligent people how wrong we are, why don't you actually name some names and tell us exactly who is pulling the strings.
I ask because your tone is such that you're implying that you have some inside knowledge. You've been on this theme for a few days now yet you won't actually point fingers. You ask questions as if you know the answers. So inform us B9K9. I for one would appreciate being enlightened.
I actually provided a bullet point list on a previous thread that comprised the usual suspects:
Foreign
Domestic
My confidence is born by a life spent profiting from leveraging human nature. Many believe I was born of the manner, but in reality I've always kept close council.
Unless one were to believe that human nature has somehow miraculously changed, that there are no longer any Hitlers, Stalins & Maos among us, then it's quite easy to see how this is going to play out.
These types of periodic economic cycles don't end peacefully with everyone holding hands and signing kumbaya. Nations fail, older, established political orders collapse, and people die.
When something this vulnerable is hanging by a thread, someone, somewhere is going to grab for the brass ring. It is inevitable. Hence, my basic advice is Get.Out.Now.
I waited for this? I will let CD have at it, and perhaps you want to keep your own counsel, but this list is so broad as to be all-inclusive.
I guess the point is that it matters not who initiates the grab, it only matters that someone WILL initiate the grab. After that, we can collectively say good-bye to our 18 month long holdiday-from-history (since Mar '09) as all hell breaks loose.
What happens when this occurs? What is the historical pattern of large population flows when the herd stampedes to safety? A significant portion of the US population are either renters, or underwater homeowners; we have a very high level of un/under-employment, along with massive numbers of "students" who aren't even counted. So we have a situation where no one is really tied down to any meaningful degree to where they currently reside.
Get the picture? How much clearer do I need to be? Hence: Get.Out.Now. If you get there first, not only will you get first dabs, but you'll also be able to potentially profit from those following seeking safety. Just one bit of advice: when this occurs, only accept gold/silver for goods & services.
(As I said below) I agree with the 'get out' sentiment. I am hoping beyond hope to do that myself, with my family, before it's too late. The Bay Area is not a place I want to be when things get bad.
"My confidence is born by a life spent profiting from leveraging human nature"
Seriously B9, spare us the movie script and cut loose with some of those mushrooms. We all like a little break too you know.
Have you been channeling Albert Pike again ...?
B9K9
I don't disagree with you so much as I'm stunned by your constant in-your-face style. I don't think I've ever seen you write one sentence that starts with "Consider the following..." or even "Some may disagree but I....".
What exactly are you trying to do with your in-your-face style other than to humiliate and insult? And please don't tell me you're "making" people wake up because you can't "wake" anyone up who doesn't wish to awaken. That excuse is a favorite among bullies and other insecure types.
You don't need to be so arrogant to make your point, In fact, tone it down a bit and you might actually make more points. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Even the fucking Nazi's knew that much, hence the classic music playing over the loud speakers and flowers gardens lining the path to the gas chambers.
Tone it back. You'll gain more listeners. A little humility goes a long way. Your message is basically sound in many ways, but the delivery method is brutal and unnecessary unless it really is all about you.
Pipe down, CD. The man is posting on a message board, not trying to make alternative opinions feel "respected."
Spoken like a bull in the china shop looking back at its mess. If all ZH is to you is a message board, you're in the wrong place. Yahoo finance is a message board. ZH is a community.
woah there nellie! tamp down them possesive sensebilities there girl....zh...a...community?...phhph...phhhbuhahahahahahahahaahhaahhahahaa...oh okay, soooo this is the zh town hall...hmmm...but ain't that the anti-thesis of [Zero] [Hedge]? as in 0 insurance, no support, prevailing risk?...whatever, it's all shits and giggles...I'll hold hands...like AA right? it's a Cohmmmuniteee...ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Says the jerk who's been around for 11 days.
"Dammit! we're SO over! you're NEVER around!"
You must be so excited after commenting on 3 articles. Keep up the good work and tell all your Yahoo friends ZH is open for business.
you becha sweet cheeks, especially since you are part of my new ko-ko-ko- mmmmuuu- nit- eeeeeee.
i think CD hasn't been around a lifecycle of anything from birth till mainstream... you know one of the main reasons early fans of bands ditch after the band gets popular? Not always because the music changed, but that they can't stand all the new fans that don't take the band as serious as they do so they have to stop associating themselves with the band
such as ZH may as well unless you jack up ticket prices for only the hardcore (make ZH a paid member site.. but then that changes a lot of other things as well...)
life doesn't exist in a vacuum - stasis is only good for memories...
The most intelligent comment I've seen here in months.
I'm going to junk myself and be the first junker!
Badge of honor!
From...ZERO HEDGE! TO INFINITY AND BEYOND!
This is fight club. If people are sometimes in the mood for a fight, so be it.
JM
There are those who use ZH solely to fight. Worse, to hurt and injure for the sole purpose of hurting and injuring. What do people thing fight club was? That all that ever transpired in fight club was fighting?
Maybe you need to pick up the book (rather than just watch the movie) and read it because fight club was the method used to build a strong and loyal community, a brotherhood. The fighting was used to strip out the individual ego and rebuild as a brotherhood, sort of what the military does.
The fighting was a means to an end, not a means to the means.
try r-e-a-l-i-t-y sweet heart. It's a bit harsher than the books and online forums that make up your delusional kkkomuniteee, but juuuust that much more satisfying, knowwhatimean? ; )
Good lord, it looks like one of the rejects as taken on a new zombie body. Welcome to ZH. Shut up and go sit in the corner. No speaking unless spoken to.
And I hate to break the bad news to you, but no matter how macho you try to be, it ain't going to grow any bigger than it is right now.
your clinical eval: OCD Delusional
sweetie, i think you're conflating the movie and this site. Actually, based on your inane posts, I'm pretty sure you missed the whole point of the movie and this site.
You do have one thing in common with the main character of that flick though, you're completely delusional.
You're most interesting idea would pale in comparison to Cog. Dis.'s used toilet paper!
CD, I think "Tyler" needs to consider some type of member cap. Maybe create a waiting list above a certain number of admitted members. This place is becoming troll city.
Is it me or do trolls always have the same tone? Word synch? Visualization? It's eerie. It is if they share one mind. One troll mind.
The guy isn't worth the effort of a response. He obviously gets off on his provocativeness so I'm turning off the "listen" button when I see his cute American flag and suggest you do the same.
it seems like the validity of ZH content is being diluted and undermined intentionally by the number and *quality* of the comments...
"it seems like the validity of ZH content is being diluted and undermined intentionally by the number and *quality* of the comments..."
IMO, the bulk of the content (TD et al) is just fine. As far as the number of comments, chalk that up to the message getting out. As far as the quality of comments go - get out there and make a difference. Most people (including you) who have been around for a while have seen the quality of comments ebb and flow.
Ignorance usually finds the door pretty quickly around here.
A
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o
t
h
e
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s
k
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n
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y
p
o
s
t
!
f
u
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absolutely
"One troll mind"
bumper sticker
Sometimes the same person come back in different names... regardless, I enjoyed adding junks to his/her pile. :)
easy as cake ; )
The article on unemployment figures being estimated by 2 states and BLS estimating for the remaining 7 was a top link on Drudgereport a couple days ago. Soooo...here come the clueless trolls. Personally, I think a couple eye-roll-worthy dickholes is well worth seeing ZH's reporting getting out there to a huge audience.
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
<double post>
Really, at this point, I'm just wondering how fat you are CD?
you know what's so funny about you ardent zh losers? .....I think you do.
you damn straight im a fcuking reject! you idiot.
I junked you to let you know that I stand with CD. Try to add something to the conversation here.
I think I just did, not my fault if you can't benefit from it, plus, it's an open thread....you moron! hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
CD is the leader of the conspiracy theorists on this site. Anybody who disagrees with his or her arguments gets junked by the masses.
Unfortunately, masses tend to be wrong.
Just take comfort in knowing that CD will be proven wrong in a short amount of time.
Not even his handle from Psych 1001 will save him.
If CD was 'the masses' the world situation we are in would be much different and there would be no need for ZH, Robert Prechter, Max Kaiser, TheNeoMatrix, Debtdeflation (Steve Keen), SGS, Gerald Celente, WikiLeaks etc. etc. etc....
Obviously you are in one of these sites, thus they exist, thus CD is not 'the masses'... Get it Mr. Bravo...Should be easy for a smart guy like you.
Yep you "added" to the conversation, but most people really don't want stinking piles attracting flies around.
Sure, I'd pay a few bones to see turd furgeson and mitchman feltch.
You....are truly....a man.....that would be you mitch.
gangland.
suicide or killing your brethren are both good options.
have fun in the void.
[click] deleted..
Not in the mood for a scuffle tonight, especially about this.
Changing subject. I don't know why so many ZHers are hot on the losers on CNBS. Guys, you need to watch Bloomberg. Every girl is hotter by far.
Who is Bloomberg's best?
a. Scarlet Fu
b. Michele Steel
d. Betty Liu
z. Deirdre Bolton, who speaks really clean French
q. Sheila Dharmarajan, this girl is so smart it turns me on
#. Gigi Stone
I can never remember the two gals on during the Asian markets. Both very cute. The gal with the longer hair has nice legs.
European gals not so much.
Deirdre is hot.
You forget Margret Brennan - who has to do that awkward walk in at the top of her show to reveal what she is wearing for the day.
Susan Li is on Bloomberg Asia and yeah, she's amazing.
You're right about Brennan too.
Junks!?! I guess some ZHers don't like girls...
Duuuudes....(jm & tj) I hear your women in the form of raw hip hop...They be singn' 2 you!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J0utfYWJvg
And if your in the fightn' mood with them bitchez!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPN5lEIWyVw&feature=related
m
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#1. I think it is hysterical you got junked for this. LOL!
#2. Don't let RoboTrader catch you saying this!!
You are an embarrassment. F off.
All brawn, small brain, part time lurker on ZH. What motivated you to pull your head out of your ass long enough to post this time?
That's the spirit!
Actually, why don't you email TD and ask him if he agrees with you on that? While you're at it, why don't you ask him whether I have delivered substantial original and highlighted ZH content to him?
OOOOOOOO I'm all impressed now - so it really IS all about you then?
CD, no need to get to their level... Some get satisfaction by trying to aggravate people... Don't give that satisfaction. Ignoring ignorants is the way to go... Cannot open the eyes of everyone, don't even try. Just let them be, spit on the floor if need be, but don't stoop to their level.
Bravo!Bravo CD! I feel the same way. ZH is a community and like all communities there is a well rounded collection of opinions and knowledge on many topics.
CD
I have had a different interpretation of B9K9's posts. IMO, I have not felt they were arrogant, or meant to insult.
My 2 euros.
You could very well be right. I've been known to misinterpret posts and it wouldn't be the first time.
I'm just tired of being told by B9K9 that I/we/you don't understand shit. He's MIA for weeks or months, then he drops in for a few days of big talk. Then he's gone with the wind. And he's always absolutely correct in everything he says.
I've learned in my old age that people who speak without any doubt and in absolutes are often, but not always, very insecure and usually compensating for something. Just my opinion.
Everybody that disagrees with your opinion makes you angry.
Just because he isn't the leader of the conspiracy set on this site like you are, doesn't mean that his opinions aren't valid.
For somebody that professes to know so much about psychology, you seem to have some issues yourself.
People that disagree with you shouldn't make you so mad.
Plus...
"I've learned in my old age that people who speak without any doubt and in absolutes"
Have you looked at your own posts lately?
I do this, because it is how I was trained (as a nationally ranked debator). You also do this.
Now I know for sure you are very smart.... A "Nationally Ranked Debator"... WOW, I actually knew one more like that I think in the entire universe.... But he died of stupidity... Be careful, I think it's a professional disease...
i am missing a poster who loved to exclaim we were /are all doomed, as he often states"billions will perish". That was a coldblooded statement, felt almost cruel. So is life, thats whats real for so many whos comforts have disappeared, whos life has been disrupted and left in a frazzle. The future is no comfort to any of us working folks.
Ah , dear God , thank you for the shitty misery, i must need it and will learn to love it till it goes away.
For every new low is a new high, and this turd will be flushed also
Scary but fascinating wasn't he.
http://www.geardownload.com/images/screenshot/42616.jpg
lol, i love it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dyu7yevZRGw
B9 comes across with "superior to you" tone. That can not be denied. Some people enjoy that kind of crap.
"Even the fucking Nazi's knew that much, hence the classic music playing over the loud speakers and flowers gardens lining the path to the gas chambers."
Assuming that this little piece of victors history is true.
there were no gas chambers
that's what I'm talking about you fcuking faghots !!
I am an asshole because i tell it like it is. I have 3 friends, one of them is me. I lack diplomacy also, but more than that when angry it does good to let it out a bit and be real with your feelings.
What are you , the feel good police? Folks aint a learning so quick, we are a bunch of dumfucks and a hard word may be a good thing, shit, lets ask clint eastwood, you feel lucky?
I have to agree with you. I only have two friends though, and they are both me.
I find value in posts from both CD and B9. But it's like comparing a hammer to a piano. Both are trying to get us/help us/put a boot in our ass to think. Just different ways of going about it. CD is more a helper, and B9 is more of a drill sargeant.
B9 does aim a lot of comments in CD's direction; I can see why CD would interpret it as combatative. From an outsiders perspective, I see it more as B9 addressing an equal intellect??? Just my 2 cents.
B9K9 > CD in intellect. CD says a whole lot without saying much. B9 says a lot, but lacks tact. He has a lot more to say.
Just my two cents.
The intent of both posters is different, therefore you cannot compare the content. Apples and oranges.
CD says more than you give him credit for. It just isn't as "action packed". That doesn't mean it has less value.
I look for insight in everybody's posts; even yours when you are serious.
You should read Sun Tzu. It may change your outlook on the value of posts from everybody here.
***EDIT I meant Tao Te Ching, not Art of War, though both are good for the brain. Here's one for you JB:
Knowledge and humility
Tao Te Ching
i went and got that book. thank you for your post and quote above from this lovely book. really enjoyed, understand, reflect and learn.
Colonel, thats well put . I have in mind the scientists who warn us of impending doom in such a way that we do not take them serious. It remains a mental exercise. I bet if we had no TV this country would already be in a revolution. i see us being raped as we sleepwalk from day to day. Some/many need shouting at. For the multitudes awakening will come with the onset of suffering . Even a hard word is not sufficient for those selfabsorbed and deluded, and they are legion. merehuman in oregon
"I am an asshole because i tell it like it is. I have 3 friends, one of them is me."
Golf clap, well stated.
Friends accept you for who you are. If you have to contort yourself to someone elses ideals you can't be true to yourself...or them.
One of my best friends, at one point in time, I thought of as one of the biggest pricks in the world. And he was, to a lot of people. But he is one of those that if he is your friend he will do anything (and I do mean anything) for you when needed. If he is your enemy he is the worst enemy you will ever know.
CD
Although I respect some of your insights, if you read this thread - it is clear you have made an ass of yourself. The other poster a greater ass, but an ass non the less. You are perhaps one of the most arrogant posters on ZH -> in fact, its clear you hand-craft each sentence you type, proud of your insights and pros - no doubt checking the thread every 3 minutes to see who responded… All those accolades must feel nice coursing through your veins. But you may question – in time – why you seek the accolades of the masses?
How bout that for some insertion of psychological grandfatherly patriarchal insight into every thread --- right up your ally
Have fun with the futures at 4:30 am
<assholeness off>
lol, hahhah, i can see theres truth in that and laughing my ass off. We all got failings. I got them. That CD is smart, but i would hear him better if he came straight from the heart. But thats the beauty of the diversity of life and its complexities. You are all souls with diverse outer/human covers, some closer to their hearts , some closer to their mind. As told to me" I respect my mind, but love my heart.
I don't think, in response to your "get out" advice that there is anywhere to go if a true crash of the type that you envision will truly occur. If the Russians or the Chinese want the power grab, it will not be a single, masterful geopolitical stroke. It will be incremental and it will be on a geopolitical basis (say in the case of the Chinese a takeover of Taiwan). The fact is the Chinese do not need to destroy us economically-we're doing a pretty good job of that ourselves.
I am somewhat sympathetic to what you are saying and it is quite possible that vamoosing it out of here will be the only rational thing left to do. I do think that the results will be different if it is a power grab from the inside (why would Jamie Dimon want to be president of the US and take such a big demotion?) or if it comes from the outside.
I mean what hes talking about is really brutal. This is the first time i've come across his post, so sorry for busting your balls B9K9 right off the bat... with the albert pike stuff.
CD hes really trying to be nice about it if I understand him correctly hes holding back. Scary shit indeed.
And this is why there are horse races. I beg to differ, and think there are some major resource plays in the offing. Look to history, understand tribalism, study the reaction(s) of the herd when it panics.
I've already identified the region where I believe a major gold rush will occur when the SHTF. In fact, I've already been placing certain assets in key locations, which is why I'm periodically out & off-line.
Once all the chips are in place, then the P/R campaign begins. Of course, there are plenty of others who have figured it out as well (you can tell from the license plates), so in some sense a lot of the heavy lifting will be shared by all.
The bottom line is really quite simple: the Fed has really laid it all out on the line - they've bet the house by pledging the USA. It's so impossibly tenuous that it almost causes one to suck in their breadth at the sheer lunacy of such a mad gamble.
Once you realize there is no way to bring back organic, sustainable economic growth under the current paradigm, then it merely becomes a function of determining when this fucker comes down.
Hence, Get.Out.Now.
so you're saying a 'double dip ' is possible. right
LOL
Aw crap, these green shoots, they are choking me up.
I have thought about the end and prepared for it. My gal and i will have a drink to it when it comes. We dont drink booze, but will make an exception for this.
No, no.. He's saying grab a new pair of nike sneakers and wait for the comet..
B9K9, What "key assets"? And of what value are they to the locals? What will you do if said assets have no locally percieved value?? Better learn to grow whatever the locals are smokin and catch what they're eatin..
Maybe in order to understand tribalism, we have to look at the word itself: "tribalism". Basically, it's made up of two separate words - "triba" and "lism". What do these words mean ? It's a mystery, and that's why so is tribalism.
Tribalism is no mystery. It is how the world operated until recently. Much of the world operates this way today. Or were you joking?
I think "nationalism" is the more appropriate word and it is the movement driving a lot of the conflict in the world today.
We can all sit on here and wonder why nothing is falling apart when we are staring at the most insidious period in our nations history, as the people of our country ignore and rationalize the facts, if they even bother to look at them. The rest of the world will decide our fate for us, just like every other collapse of nations in the past. When thinking of China and Russia, think of an attack on our currency, not on our borders, there is much to worry about.
B9K9, unlike some of the others here, I do not see your comments as anything other than pushing a sense of urgency: anyone who is sensitive to them likley understands that you are right, and that they are unwilling to face up to the direness (or betterment, if one views the coming big change as necessary). You're right on the mark; however, and it's doubtful that you'd spot my post here, or that I'd find my way back to read any such reply from you, but this quote from your post is a bit of a concern:
"Once you realize there is no way to bring back organic, sustainable economic growth under the current paradigm"
There can be NO sustainable growth, "organic" or otherwise. It all reads fine, but the use of "back" completley derails it. Without this understanding we're perpetually doomed to repeat this disaster (unless we completly wipe the globe via some stupid nuclear war). I had thought that you understood this fundamental.
I had explored relocating elsewhere, but, in all seriousness, there really isn't any other place to run to. If the collapse of the US occurs folks in other locations will find it good sport to pick on a representative of the bully nation that's in their midst. The kicking might be minimized with the proper "gifting," which will likely leave you broke and still in pain.
I've decide to stay put. No, not stay and "fight," as fighting will achieve nothing. I'm oging to stay and make the best environment that I can. I will not, however, accommodate bigots/racists, and will act as protector to those I've pledged protection to.
The goal, therefore, isn't to run, and it isn't to stay and "fight." The goal is to provide the most sustainable environment that you can. We're all going to die, might as well have something good to pass on (be it usable land, or be it wisdom).
This post was not written to me, but I liked it. Thanks.
If you do come back to read this, please: post more often.
+100. Common sense perspective--great points. As an American, you can run, but you just can't hide.
It's good to hear a wider range of the community's perceptions of its members and its own collective mores--and a relief to find that tolerance remains, regardless of the means or manner by which some members will inevitably strive to discredit or undermine it . . . consciously or not.
Locational hint, not GPS coordinates but clues to perhaps lead the right people to the gulch..
No worries, vast majority will not, cannot follow..
We're already in the double dip right now.
This IS the new slowdown.
Growth will come in the first half of next year. You can bet on it. Employers are already hiring much more than they used to.
Lunacy is right! Dude, you've got it nailed!
Military defanging without firing a shot would shatter the myth once and for all. There is a reason the US military is so focused on China space program and their purported carrier seeking ICBM? (note the orbital observations/dissapearance re the recently launched NASA vehicle) Real or perceived a military defanging may explain why beyond the obvious complications/interests the US equivicates so much about Iran. After all, the military is really the only thing left standing MXN Fx status (& oil/commodity implications); When your greatest strength is your achilles heel
http://www.whatsonxiamen.com/tech345.html
http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2010-08/china-executes-secret-orbit-satellite-rendezvous-sparking-speculation-what-its-developing
And here, ladies & gentlemen, is exhibit #1 why I love ZH and why those lurking in the shadows should readily appreciate such an important & valuable resource.
Yes, yes & yes!
Ok, since maybe I haven't scared enough people already, let's play out this little thought experiment: You know that one day a carrier is going down, right? Now, it might not be this year, in fact, it might not happen for 5, 10, or even 50 years, but at some point in the future, a carrier is going down.
Now, what does that mean? Well, it means, as the poster above notes, that the oil-USD nexus will have been severed by demonstrating that the USA could no longer defend its supply lines.
Question: What would would be the very first thing you would do if you heard a carrier had gone down? Myself, I would grab the family, fill up the car, and head on out. Don't look back, because the life you previously knew would be gone forever.
We are living through impossibly exciting times, with true existential threats present on many different levels. With so much at stake, someone is bound to make a mistake.
What, you thought your future would consist solely of being exasperated about fake Treasury sales & the markets gunning higher in spite of continuing poor results? You wish. LOL
This fucker is gonna get hot.
"With so much at stake, someone is bound to make a mistake.
What, you thought your future would consist solely of being exasperated about fake Treasury sales & the markets gunning higher in spite of continuing poor results? You wish. LOL
This fucker is gonna get hot."
Yup. Planning my exit now. As you mentioned before, there is no more growth in the system. It will come down. Only a matter of time. Lots of shock, disappointment, and dismay coming.
B9K9, thanks for your posts. The way I think of it, either China breaks first or we break first. I think it happens economically-not militarily. Not to say that a desperate Chinese regime doesn't take a shot at one of our aircraft carriers, but if they do, for about the next 10 years we have enough nukes to outgun them in any such confrontation. And I think the financial meltdown-either theirs or ours-will come a lot sooner.
"ecomonically-not militarily"
My belief is that the first will lead to the second.
B9K9--I really have enjoyed and appriciated your thoughtful posts. But this my man is way over the top. Take a couple of hits and call it day. Milestones
Come on now B9K9, one carrier down and we are done as a country.?
Well China is the only one who could do this tomorrow (antiship cruise missle) so let's rule them out now..
They have stolen every bit of everything that they now manufacture...Innovation show me ?
Land something on the moon,drive your buggy aroung mars, make salt water drinkable, internet, scramjet (mach 6) , democracy, nanotech, r&d, cloud computing, I could go on and on, when did we develope the stealth bomber early 80's right?Gee I wonder what we have cooking in 2010 behind closed doors at Boeing's advanced research and development division?
We as a nation continue to innovate, we are light years ahead of these pimps.
Did you ever notice we sold off a ton's of fannie & freddie, credit cards, all kinds of toxic waste of securitized debt now who is sitting on all of this toliet paper? China among others, was it smart of the U.S.A to offshore it's debt over the last 20-30 years??? I'm glad we are not holding ALL of this crap.
Not a bad time to be in debt now is it, we can default, China is holding crap ola', the fed falls on a sword for the nation,reset,our problem solved. One carrier down, big deal.
They helped to maximise profits of big business over the last 30 years, thats it, used like a bitch, thanks ... Your not going to ship your cheap fucking crap this way, perfect.
Now they are going to take everything away, I should run, hide...?
BwaaaaaaaaHAWAHaaaaaa...
China has trouble with food, energy, ect... a fly on a horses ass.
Unfortunately this isn't true anymore:
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/navy-maritime/sunburst-invincible-5621-2/
E-Bomb
http://science.howstuffworks.com/e-bomb.htm
We would shut down any country within 2 hours if they sink our carrier or if Iran tries to shut down the strait.
Every object with a chip that is not protected shut's down, cars, phones, most weapons.Chaos for that very dumb enemy nothing is working for miles and miles.
........or China just opens the back door of every microchip they made for us and shuts down our country. Assuming of course everything they made for us hasn't been thrown out already.
Something tells me that a carrier has gone down before ... would that be the Langley, the Lexington, the Yorktown, the Liscomb Bay ... etc?
In the 1970s, a base on Long Island was equipped with nike nuclear missiles. These were short range missiles and were part of a last ditch defense against Soviet bombers. Send up the missles into the atmosphere and flash boom (crash?). If the percussion did not get them maybe the EMP would.
However, should this scenario have enfolded the fallout would have been obviously detrimental to the citizens living below ...
And you are worried now about some new Chinese toys?
the question B9K9 is whether you me and 300 million americans have the balls to stand when the time comes, or will we lay nestled in the fetal position while the feds/foreigners piss on us and take our PM's and guns or lives and the true police state is abound? will you stand for the country your forefathers died to create? the time is near. we (myself included) babble constant bullshit on what we need to do and what could happen and this and that. we all have to be less selfish and more concerned with strength in numbers. action not talk is the path. when the time is right.
Looks like somone read How to Survive the End of the World As We Know It by James Wesley. Your human escape pattern quote is from the first few pages of that book.
Wow, you have electricity where you are? Very nice.
Fear is a great motivator but never let the lizard brain gain the upper hand ...
As for the great "grab", maybe it's called history, which has not to my knowledge been a terminal process. It's still in play. It's always in play.
Use your intelligence and be part of it. If you are alerting others to a menace, fine, agree wholeheartedly. But now what? Run away?
In the words of a worth Tai Kwon Do master I once met, "Never back up!" Meaning, never give up the fight (even if retreat is part of it).
B9K9,
I agree entirely. The fact is that the elite in charge are sociopaths, their brains are wired differently from the rest of us. You don't get to that level by being nice and playing nice. You get there by being ruthless. At some point it's not about the money it's about power, as Kissinger said, Power is the greatest aphrodisiac. The ultimate game is for power, ever more power. It is relative power that counts, not absolute as well. The Russian elite, the VChinese elite etc are all looking to get a one up on the US and Europe. The resource grab is on, this won't end well, such is the lesson of history.
The question I have, looking at the list, is who actually has the power to do this? How would the Russians effectuate such a takeover? The Chinese? Dumping Treasuries and taking a $1 trillion loss? The Israelis? How? With what?
I agree that we live in a dangerous world with all sorts of individuals and factions vying for more and more power. But a palace coup here in the US and have the sheeple calmly accept it and have the military support it? I don't think we are quite there yet.
Lots of guns in the USA ... Never going to happen.
The "Li" clan better bring boatloads of boys' with him from China.
I agree. This thread makes me want to go watch Independence Day or Red Dawn.
watch this instead. always cheers me up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObRtHOZ3384&feature=related
Veeeery impressive. Thanks!
It'll be a lot easier to bring down the neighbors with all those guns than to have much effect on a chopper, drone or Stryker when it shows up in the neighborhood.
With a bio attack a gun would be useless, and leave you completely vulnerable. In that situation you would accept the governments or anybodies help just to save your family.
Sure, but where are THEY going to go to hide from US?
I know where all the local national guard armories are. I also know how to make numerous unconventional weapons. There are lots of other people who have similar knowledge, or can get it quickly.
If you think they can establish a thousand "green zones" around the country overnight, you need to think again.
The probability of China invading the US is next to nill. The US, just like the Soviet Union, will be its own demise.
People dwelling on this foreign invader stuff only help to spread racism. And That my friends, is what will light the powder (our own people fighting each other; and, of course, the insitgators, the elites, will mange to sneak off- they'll have enough money to buy their safety elsewhere).
+1. I find it more likely that our two countries will war with each other on somebody elses stage, perhaps naval attacks if it gets that far.
I agree with you however that we are our own worst enemy.
I sincerely doubt that a palace coup is envisaged anywhere. If the enemy is foreign, a likely route is via the Internet, and/or an EMP. The former is ongoing, but generally deflected; the latter has been postulated with increasing frequency of late in some areas of the media, much to my horror.
If the enemy is domestic, I daresay all they need to do is bide their time.
I attempt to explain this again and again, so this is my final installment:
Look at the 5 principal organizations which have the most influence on the American government -- they all have international membership (and two of them have the same exact business address and fax number, 'natch!):
Peterson Institute (also known as International Institute for Economics)
Council on Foreign Relations
Trilateral Commission
Group of Thirty (same biz address and fax # as below)
Bretton Woods Committee
(just take a close look at their membership, count the billionaires, the add up all their hidden capital and assets).
End of story.
+1000, just to let you know *someone* hears you.