Consequences of the Mass. Election

I was watching the election results from Mass. with some people who
know history better than I. None of us could come up with a historical
parallel to the development that took place this evening. This one is
going to go down as one of those ‘water shed’ events that you hear about.
The TV guys are all talking about what this could mean to the health
care legislation. At this point, I could care less. I thought it was
dead before and I think it is deader now. What I care about is what
this means for some of the other significant issues that we face.
In my opinion the vote in Mass was a vote against the status quo. It
was a loud enough vote for everyone in D.C. to hear. If there was any
doubt that Americans are sick of the "same old, same old", this was it.
The message was clear to me, “If you want to keep your job as an
elected official you have to do things differently.” This will force
changes across the board. Some things outside of health care that I
think may be impacted:
-The days where the Fed and Mr. Bernanke get to establish broad
economic policy without taking into consideration the mood of the
public is over. This is not to suggest that the Fed is going to jack up
rates anytime soon. But to me it means that the possibility of QE2 is
done. There was a time when you might have said, “The American people
don’t understand their monetary policy and have know idea how much debt
has been created in their name”. Well that was then and this is now.
Americans do understand how much debt there is. They are shocked,
dismayed and angered. They’re a lot of everyday citizens who are well
aware that the Fed printed 2 trillion in the last year or so. The vote
in Natick Mass showed their dislike and distrust of Fed policy. While I
don’t think this will result in Bernanke failing to get a second term
in the upcoming vote, it just got a bit more uncertain. In many ways
this election will tie Ben’s hands.
-There is has been some discussion on a second stimulus bill. Those
like me who see weakness before this year is over were pushing for
that. Some big voices in the public and private sector are going to be
disappointed. There will be no second stimulus bill. Not in 2010 at
least. There is no stomach for that any longer. There are many
Congressmen and Senators who are up for reelection in ten months. They
are not going to stick there neck out for something the White House
wants and they know the people don’t. I doubt the administration will
even ask for a stimulus bill after this shellacking.
-I read the election result as being dollar positive. Somewhere inside
this vote tonight is a call for fiscal conservatism. We are going to
hear rhetoric to that effect in the coming months and we will see
legislative steps that at least give lip service to the idea that we
aught to tighten our belt a few notches. To the extent that I am right
by calling this dollar positive, you have to also think that it is a
gold negative development. For those that love the yellow metal and
hate the dollar take heart. Any positive impact to dollar will be short
lived. The inability to put a second stimulus together will show up in
all of our numbers by midyear. At that point it will be more clearly
understood that the US is broke and there really aren’t any viable
options that don’t entail a lot time and pain.
-Tim Geithner’s ship went down in Massachusetts. I am convinced that he
now must go. The Administration will have to make changes after this
vote. They have to show that they are being responsive. The beating the
WH took tonight was biblical. So will their response be. It will take a
month, but changes and heads will roll.
-I am sure that all the stock pundits are going to read this evening’s
results good for the broad market averages. I have been skeptical of
this for a while. But not any longer. The stock market looks six months
ahead. It will soon be sensing the next economic slowdown soon. I would
not say the market is a screaming short. It is not, yet. It just got
closer however.
-I can see how some health care companies might see a pop in their
stocks for a few days. This group I would short. The absence of a
health care deal is actually bad for them in my opinion. Give that a
week at best.
-There will be no fix on Social Security this year. Mr. Goss who runs
that shop has said that the issues facing SS have to take a back burner
to finding a fix to health care. Well, we have not found that elusive
solution. And now it is farther away then ever. Mr. Goss will have to
wait at least another year. That will prove to be a devastating delay.
-There will be no significant steps to address the problems at the
mortgage Agencies; Fannie, Freddie and FHA. The reason is simple. If
you wanted to address the problems with these dogs you have to owe up
to the fact that it is a $500 billion dollar sinkhole. Who would want
to put that bad news on the table after getting your ass kicked in a
crucial election? The answer to that is that no one in Washington
would. And no one will. Having said that, I would not be at all
surprised to see an effort to cut the outrageously rich compensation
packages for the big shots at Fannie and Freddie. There may have been
some belief that these two companies were in the private sector where
salaries have no caps. But now there will be those in Congress that
want/need an election edge. What could be a better edge than to beat up
on a bunch of fat cat D.C. bankers?
-We have several states that are on the edge of a fiscal crisis. I
thought that there would be some form of Federal assistance for them
this year. That may still come, but it is now much less likely. You
can’t just help NY and Cali. Those States will simply have to cut their
deficits the old fashioned way, by cutting expenses. There is no way
the folks in Texas are going to let Federal dollars be used to bail out
TBTF States. And no one in Congress is going to stand up to that.
-If you were a TBTF institution you just hated this vote. This is bad
for the Citi’s and BoA’s, but it just downright terrible for the likes
of GS. The more successful you are, the more crap that you will have to
take. Washington knows that Americans hate their banks. Now Washington
is going to take sides with the people and lean on the TBTFs even
harder.
-The bailout mentality is over. If GM needed a handout today, they
would not get it. If a company runs into difficulty in the future they
will just go down. There is no will left for the bailout thinking. If
you are a legislator and you support a bailout, you will lose you right
to vote in Washington. The voters will take you out back and shoot you
on Election Day.
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on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 00:33
#199045
for a day.. the lunk heads will thing this changes things ,
nothing can be further from the truth , the bucko is dead.. frozen in space like some road runner imitation,
this brown guy likes the wars , likes the long string of lies about the 9-11 stuff. The nations of the earth could care less about this one vote.
as a nation we walk blinded on both sides . the freddie fanny housing deal will suck up the housing fall, the commercials will wither .. joblessness will hover at 22%. Social security smells , pension upside down.
California 12 percent of the gross national product .. is down for the count. 30 states to follow,
the nickle flippers in all their glory will game the system . and at the end of the day nothing changes , nothing is changed.
And the game of MOPE carries on. a senator with no power, on the bottom of the pole..
much ado about nothing ..
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 10:41
#199304
Dumpster has it right.
The result was largely driven by:
(1) a population already forced to buy their own health care so why subsidized other states?????
(2) a politician who has no idea why anyone cares about the RED SOX or why she should bother to campaign with a bunch of voters she doesn't know. DUHH!
Maybe national healthcare is dead (good!) but if Republicans think this election was about them then they have as much chance as the Democrats this November.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:36
#199374
flag as junk lol
the touchy feely political banter about change , about a shot against the bow of the status quo. Is pure balderdash.
the crying weeping eyes of the obomites lasted a week,,, as the drones slaughtered the civilians . voted by both sides, the TARP infusion pushed through with the population against it 100 to !. both sides .
this vote in mass.. while giving a few moments to drivel over change.. will not see change . the health care issue is already being played out with regulation.. slowly the creep comes.
the real issue is the freedoms lost... the strip searches , the protecting the HOMELAND ,, big brother .
wars of empire.. wars of deceit, to save us from a our own mandicity, our own distorted pavlovian dog brain cramp. at the bowl of gruel for a big lie. three bldgs for the price of two.. republicians on the cover up.. voting fraud florida supreme court decision.. how fast we forget,
pump the fist of glory . pump the fist of shame. wake up/ as the rope gets tighter around the necks of the many that refuse to see.
yes a vote in mass.. that changes perception but changes nothing
wait when they grab your 401k's .. or 201k's lol
lemmimgs thinking they be crossing the river on a log to wake up ts see a python
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 12:07
#199431
Wah! Dumpster, you got flagged as junk!
Don't go into show business if you are not ready for the critics.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 12:46
#199485
+1
(would you edit your other duplicate posts to save scrolling time please - gracias)
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:36
#199375
flag as junk lol
the touchy feely political banter about change , about a shot against the bow of the status quo. Is pure balderdash.
the crying weeping eyes of the obomites lasted a week,,, as the drones slaughtered the civilians . voted by both sides, the TARP infusion pushed through with the population against it 100 to !. both sides .
this vote in mass.. while giving a few moments to drivel over change.. will not see change . the health care issue is already being played out with regulation.. slowly the creep comes.
the real issue is the freedoms lost... the strip searches , the protecting the HOMELAND ,, big brother .
wars of empire.. wars of deceit, to save us from a our own mandicity, our own distorted pavlovian dog brain cramp. at the bowl of gruel for a big lie. three bldgs for the price of two.. republicians on the cover up.. voting fraud florida supreme court decision.. how fast we forget,
pump the fist of glory . pump the fist of shame. wake up/ as the rope gets tighter around the necks of the many that refuse to see.
yes a vote in mass.. that changes perception but changes nothing
wait when they grab your 401k's .. or 201k's lol
lemmimgs thinking they be crossing the river on a log to wake up ts see a python
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:36
#199376
flag as junk lol
the touchy feely political banter about change , about a shot against the bow of the status quo. Is pure balderdash.
the crying weeping eyes of the obomites lasted a week,,, as the drones slaughtered the civilians . voted by both sides, the TARP infusion pushed through with the population against it 100 to !. both sides .
this vote in mass.. while giving a few moments to drivel over change.. will not see change . the health care issue is already being played out with regulation.. slowly the creep comes.
the real issue is the freedoms lost... the strip searches , the protecting the HOMELAND ,, big brother .
wars of empire.. wars of deceit, to save us from a our own mandicity, our own distorted pavlovian dog brain cramp. at the bowl of gruel for a big lie. three bldgs for the price of two.. republicians on the cover up.. voting fraud florida supreme court decision.. how fast we forget,
pump the fist of glory . pump the fist of shame. wake up/ as the rope gets tighter around the necks of the many that refuse to see.
yes a vote in mass.. that changes perception but changes nothing
wait when they grab your 401k's .. or 201k's lol
lemmimgs thinking they be crossing the river on a log to wake up ts see a python
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:36
#199377
flag as junk lol
the touchy feely political banter about change , about a shot against the bow of the status quo. Is pure balderdash.
the crying weeping eyes of the obomites lasted a week,,, as the drones slaughtered the civilians . voted by both sides, the TARP infusion pushed through with the population against it 100 to !. both sides .
this vote in mass.. while giving a few moments to drivel over change.. will not see change . the health care issue is already being played out with regulation.. slowly the creep comes.
the real issue is the freedoms lost... the strip searches , the protecting the HOMELAND ,, big brother .
wars of empire.. wars of deceit, to save us from a our own mandicity, our own distorted pavlovian dog brain cramp. at the bowl of gruel for a big lie. three bldgs for the price of two.. republicians on the cover up.. voting fraud florida supreme court decision.. how fast we forget,
pump the fist of glory . pump the fist of shame. wake up/ as the rope gets tighter around the necks of the many that refuse to see.
yes a vote in mass.. that changes perception but changes nothing
wait when they grab your 401k's .. or 201k's lol
lemmimgs thinking they be crossing the river on a log to wake up ts see a python
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 00:46
#199053
Great read Bruce. I do not (yet!) know where I come down re your various conclusions, but I do think that this was a real political earthquake.
Adios to health care "reform", RIP. Adios Cap 'n' Trade.
I do not yet sense how TPTB will react re financial policies. It does look like Americans are pissed (at both parties) regarding spending, as well they should be.
YES, it looks like Dems looking to spend and grab power are in peril. What happens next re health care? Jobs? Spending & taxes? I don't know, but the new Senator Brown from Mass. has shaken everything up. And probably for the better for our country, though I see MANY BIG problems ahead.
I will still hold & buy precious metals, keep some cash and hope for the best.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 01:08
#199074
Much appreciate your comments, Bruce, I always enjoy reading them.
I also see some political techtonics, perhaps not an earthquake but hopefully some shift towards realism.
I heard on NPR before the close of the polls several strategies yet remaining to the Dems that may weasel the healthcare bill through, including disguising it as a budget amendment. Please, all concerned (and that should mean everyone), remain vigilant against backdoor efforts to continue this flawed legislation.
I am a full-blown conservative liberaterian, but would support true reform of our healthcare system. However, I will not support further encouragement of the existing system; it serves only those who profit from the industry, not those who seek its services.
Wilderman
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:37
#199379
As a full blown moderately centrist Libertarian http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-0.25&soc=-5.49 I can say that if they try and backdoor it through, it will only be worse for them.
Most people realize that more bureaucracy isn't reform, and will only serve to make health care more expensive.
They also realize that the bailout was simply a huge giveaway to the banks with no strings attached.
I think that it's possible that many of them are starting to realize that the Federal government has become steadily more intrusive over the decades and needs to be reined in. Massachusetts had the health care they wanted, AND THEY DID IT ALL BY THEMSELVES. What a concept!
I think it's possible that they also realize that starting a war without a plan to decisively win it, and with NO CONSEQUENCES IF YOU DO NOT, is just a big givaway to the defense industry. Just like the health care industry has a vested interest in continued ilness (no money in an actual cure) rest, so the defense industry has a vested interest in continued conflict (no money in peace).
Perhaps people are actually starting to want results from government... Or their money back! Wouldn't that be something!
And most importantly, 17.2% of them also have a lot more time on their hands to think about these and other things. Without that, none of this would be an issue.
"It's the economy, stupids!"
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 12:44
#199478
Cool test. Here's me:
http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=3.25&soc=-5.13
This should almost be a requirement to have available for view under your account here at ZH. But that would go against some of my principles anyway.
If anyone else wants to try:
http://www.politicalcompass.org/
----------
+1 on your post. When Insurance equities look to be a good buy because of the 2,000 page behemoth, that criminally negligent representatives don't even read, we know we need to cut out the HMO middlemen.
Dr. Ron Paul's proposal is to make routine visits a cash payment. Let the doctor and patient work more closely together. Insurance should be for the unpredictable!
http://www.ronpaul.com/2009-09-24/ron-paul-we-need-true-competition-in-m...
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 13:27
#199557
I've taken this test multiple times, and I always end up a little bit left of you. Probably just as far south, but I'm slightly east of the border between left and right. You're a little more right than me, but I'm just as far south on the libertarian side.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 17:14
#199581
Cool. When it comes to discussing solutions I hate being surrounded by people that think exactly like me. That's why oligarchies eventually fail - and why Orwell knew that a collective oligarchy on a massive scale was the greatest threat to humanity.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 13:29
#199558
Where do you register on the "political compass" if your core belief is that all the Bilderbergers, Trilateralists and all of their cock sucking, cunt lapping slaves should be tried Nuremberg style, convicted, executed and bulldozed into a mass grave?
Reset, start the fuck over.
Is that right or left?
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 13:42
#199578
It's right in the center of mass. The bullseye on the chart. With FMJ after a jury of 12 peers.
Anytime you break above that Authotarian line you risk shooting for the moon as there is little resistance. Every single day that passes the gov't moves up on that chart. The higher you go, the less left and right mean anything.
I wonder what answering every single question in the opposite of my views would look like. I wish some of the questions were more specific; I found myself thinking, "It depends."
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 14:12
#199609
"Every single day that passes the gov't moves up on that chart. The higher you go, the less left and right mean anything."
Exactly, because the whole left - right, dem - repub, liberal vs. conservative front is a manufactured - for - television product designed to make the electorate feel that they have had an opinion and a choice for the past 40 years. Nothing could be further from reality.
Divide and control. The oldest crowd control technique known to civilization.
I wonder what would happen to this "political scale" distribution of outcomes if some revolutionary thinker with means was able to take out the broadcasting and distribution capabilities of CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, CNN, MSNBC, CNBC etc. etc. et, for an extended period of time?????
Anyway, it would make a good screenplay for all of us to watch while we sit in the internment camps on Saturday nights waiting for our orderly exterminations.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 14:39
#199635
Thanks for the link. Here's where I landed on my only crack at it:
Interesting set of questions, and I found myself thinking "fundamentally, the question/phrase is worded such that I find it to be correct, but not just."
Not sure if I should be proud or ashamed of where I lay...
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 15:29
#199708
Hmm. You're slightly more a dictator than I. Hmm.
The noise in every spectrum imaginable keeps us from finding what we have in common - politics tends to be "thinking in slogans and speaking in bullets".
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 18:02
#199979
It would be fun to see where Marla and Tyler would be and yes I know that there are many of each.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 02:03
#199107
imo it isn't spending per se, the need for fiscal rectitude is seen still by only a minority of voters. it is what the money is being spent on: wars and crony capitalism. obama has burned through his left wing support, done little to gain moderates (who largely want jobs, it seems) and was never going to take a republican vote from republicans once bush was gone.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 00:49
#199056
The point here is that nobody is safe in their cushy DC jobs. If Massachusetts, the only state to vote for McGovern and Dukakis, can vote in a Repub senator, then the whole country is up for grabs. Now they cannot say that the two new Repub governors were a fluke. This is for real. Obama is basically a lame duck after tonight. Without the Senate steamroller supermajority, everyone has to be extra careful and tread lightly from now to November, including Barney and Nancy. This may seem insignificant now, but just wait to see if the Dems try to ram through healthcare, after Brown ran almost exclusively against it.
I can't wait to see how Nancy takes to being a back-bencher.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 00:50
#199057
If you are a legislator and you support a bailout, you will lose you right to vote in Washington. The voters will take you out back and shoot you on Election Day.
If not before once they figure out the extent and the ramifications of what has already been done. War is a real possibility now. People who view violence as a legitimate means of control have been in broad control of the economy for a number of years. At least 29. 113 years if you agree with Chomsky. They know know THEY have a problem. Very dangerous waters we are sailing / drifting into.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 00:51
#199059
I think that's a decent set of predictions. Bottom line, the GOP gains everything by saying "no" across the board. Best scenario for them from an electoral standpoint is a second meltdown before November.
I think a scorched-earth campaign against wall street may be in the cards. Obvious target of misdirection for the Dems.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 15:54
#199756
"I think a scorched-earth campaign against wall street may be in the cards"
It would be interesting to see how they play "scorched-earth campaign" in a Kabuki theater. That would be a first I believe.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 00:54
#199060
Tonight reminded me of the WWE, where the guy in the Red mask won over the gal in the Blue mask.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 03:45
#199136
Yeah, or that moment in an uprising when, after the deaths of 700 peasants armed with farm tools, the rabble finally pulls down one knight. And everyone cheers and acts like the peasants suddenly have a chance of victory.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 09:09
#199230
A funny thing happens after you bloody the bully's nose, though.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 14:04
#199606
Anon...199230:
Yep, the bully becomes your friend.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 09:48
#199251
+1
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:40
#199383
It only takes about seven peasants to take out a knight (if they take out the horse first). If you train 'em, it only takes three.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 12:50
#199486
If one of the trained peasants has an M1A it's ~20 knights per magazine, @ 400 yards.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 16:36
#199825
+~1
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 15:36
#199721
This is a historical non-sequiter, but in the battle of Agincourt welsh bowman armed with nothing but knives killed thousand of French knights in full armor. Once the knights were off their horses, they flailed around in the mud like upside-down turtles. The welsh soldiers simply walked up to a knight, lifted his visor, and stuck a knife in his eye.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 00:57
#199064
Sad-NoObama is a oneterm President. And then the US takes the power from the corrupt and hands it back to the corrupt. Obama is showing no signs of political aptitude
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 09:50
#199255
"And then the US takes the power from the corrupt and hands it back to the corrupt."
Pretty much my thoughts, but I admit I'm about 5% happier today than I was yesterday.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 15:58
#199760
In his search for bi-partisan "change we can all believe in" he has left way too much in the hands of Congress. They then proceed to prove once again that they can fuck up a two car funeral in a magnitude not even dreamed of by the most insanly inept.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 01:03
#199071
I appreciate the thoughts, but I don't believe that the incumbents on either side are going to take this to heart yet. Not enough to matter, anyway.
The US is still very much a welfare state and that's not gonna change because one bad candidate screwed up a highly winnable election. Sure, some of the weaker ones or the few with real survival instincts are going to correctly gauge how the wind is blowing, but they also know that like real wind it changes direction, goes away, blows harder sometimes, etc.
I wouldn't bet too hard on the TBTF's being allowed to fail -- there are still plenty of union goons putting too much money in these thieves' pockets. The ones who know they're toast have nothing to lose, so you can bet they'll go along with the Community Organizer's 5-year plan, and they'll line their pockets as much as they can in the coming year.
Also not sure how much this is going to translate to other states. If Mass didn't already have a crushing healthcare program of its own Coakley would have still cakewalked to the seat. Other states won't have that be a nonissue, and I don't have faith that there are enough small-gov't voters to stem the tide.
The iceberg has hit, we're sinking, but the voters won't head for the lifeboats until they feel the cold water.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 01:44
#199096
"The iceberg has hit, we're sinking, but the voters won't head for the lifeboats until they feel the cold water."
Where I live (NW US), we felt the meltwater around our gonads two years ago. The water's getting deep enough now to affect those on higher ground ,formerly the status quo and/or upper middle class. My father, a successful TX doctor, has recently converted to what were previously "hard right" principles, such as gun ownership and practice, concern over what implements to purchase prior to the advent of anarchy, and other highly anti-typical (of generally well-to-do retirees) behaviors.
Most of America is scared, and will continue to vote for those who proclaim to be most against the staus quo, or who profer some prospect of 'return to the good 'ol days', when our economy ran on production of goods.
Those days are gone. Period. In order to move to the next best thing, we need to elect leaders beyond the party paradigm. I know nothing of Brown, other than that he means to kill the current healthcare bill, and for that, god bless his soul. I hope the angst expressed today in Mass. lasts for at least another year, and that, for once, we might elect a sufficient quantity of independants to re-mold the legislative process.
Barring a populist movement (as Bruce suggests), we are doomed to more of the same. It is all or none in November; this most recent election is but a hopeful sign that reason still exists.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 08:12
#199201
What you should know about Scott Brown.
"Israel
Israel has made enormous sacrifices in an attempt to secure peace – including unilateral withdrawal from Gaza. I support a two-state solution that reaffirms Israel’s right to exist and provides the Palestinians with a place of their own where both sides can live in peace and security. As our closest ally in the Middle East, Israel lives every day under the threat of terror yet shares with America a dedication to democratic ideals, a respect for faith, and a commitment to peace in the region. Until a lasting peace is achieved, I support the security barrier erected by Israel which has proven successful in protecting Israeli civilians from terrorist attacks."
http://www.brownforussenate.com/issues
Another sell-out, war-mongering tool.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 10:05
#199270
You were expecting something else from a Republican?
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 17:32
#199939
Which is actually a bit ironic...
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 16:03
#199767
Fucking pile of putrid shit.
Isreal wrote the blueprints and the guidebooks for terrorism. Isreal should not even be a political issue in this country. They should be categorized as a terrorist nation period the end.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 14:56
#199660
This is probably the best comment on the entire thread. Very well thought out, impeccably written, with just the right balance of insight and wit. A real pleasure to read.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 01:09
#199075
the political class are identical .. the hope of salvation is not in the bounds of a vote.
these bleating sounds are found every election.. nothing changes ,, the power resides in the money folks.. republican ... democrat.. two sides of a square coin.
will this stop random searches of the body parts at airports.. the insane wars .. the lies and distortains that got as thier . people wake up ..
these feely touchy political expressions are lost in the haze of reality.
the fed is easing, the debt is going up. 22% unemployment ... the politicains best get out of the way.
enough of this messiah complex of the system being the answer. the mass of politicans are bought and paid for, do you think the powers that decide the vote results will stand by and let a honest vote decide matters..
then heres a bridge ..
these limited vision editorials on political change are a pizz in the ocean ,, a spit in the creek . an expression of a mad hatter ,,
The foundation is rotten to the core , the industrial military complex is out of sight out of hand. the rumblings of freedoms losts. obama still has the supreme court vote next.
what will change but a handfull of sobbing hearts yearning for a political answer .
Can a lump of wood provide light for 60 years of political deceit. The Harvard marxist economic model . in retreat .. sure..
monetary infusion the name of the game . here we go round the mulberry bush ..
the republicans if they take over will be the same .
or where have you all been the last twenty years ,,
blind dumb and happy
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 01:38
#199091
Is there something wrong with your keyboard?
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 13:31
#199461
Thorazine! Now its for breakfast, lunch and dinner! Yum!
Ok, my bad. Clearly his fleshlight is resting on the space bar.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 01:57
#199104
e. e. cummings explains the Fabian Society.
+1
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 04:18
#199145
+1000
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 05:54
#199168
thuggin'
Sid the Communist
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 09:39
#199244
How in the world could anyone junk the must truthful comment in the thread??
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:36
#199367
Because rather than refute, provide an alternative view, or even just type: "i disagree with what u sez", they junk.
I always gotta read the junked posts - it's pretty obvious which mentality is junking under different circumstances. Junking is a neon sign, "must read!", for the crowd that has plenty of time on their hands.
Junking should be reserved for the crap posts, but, alas, we have children running around in here. Not that I don't sometimes act like a child myself. Your post is a must read, so I junked you.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:47
#199396
It's not like they have a choice between "junk", "like" and "dislike".
We only get "junk". What a shocker that it gets clicked on frequently. You also can't UN-click it.
I've proposed they replace "junk" with "like", "dislike" and "spam" to ZH at least twice. This way users could set their threshold to only allow posts that had less than (e.g.) 10 dislikes, etc.
Funny that we seem to be having the same problem getting heard on ZH that we do in Warshingtun.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 12:43
#199475
One can't really argue with free...but at the same time I feel ya, some sort of thumbs up/down system would be a solid improvement.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 12:52
#199494
I'm pretty sure you can UN-junk someone. I've junked a couple of comments by accident (fat fingers, and such) - just clicked on the junk link again and viola! No more junk.
From ground zero - this was independents tossing the Democrats under the bus in droves. The same people Bush 43 drove away from the GOP in '04 flocked to Scott Brown yesterday. I talked to many people at the polls after they voted (it's never cool to talk with them just before they vote), and it pretty much came down to 1) kill "healthcare reform" deader than dead, bury it, and then salt the earth so it can never come bacl, 2) end multi-trillion dollar deficits, and 3) get unemployment down or we're going to dice you all up 5-ways from Sunday.
A couple of things that literally never came up:
1) The wars
2) Abortion, or any other social issues
3) George Bush
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 13:20
#199546
docj - you've got your "boots on the ground" there right now, yes? Was it you that mentioned it was going to be interesting to see what happens in Fwanks domain? I think you're right: the Republicans are coopting this but it's really a victory for the independents, whatever their intensity. I don't really care about what happens on Capitol Hill anymore anyway - I'm just glad to see further entrenchment of dissent. It's the willingness to dissent, even if Olbermann says "tea-bagger" 50 times an hour.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 14:05
#199607
Indeed, I live just south of Boston. I was at the polls most of the day yesterday.
I was not the one who mentioned what would happen in Barney Mumbles' district, but I don't think that was much of a surprise.
We were handing out tea (as in, brewed, hot) at a rally in the center of town on Saturday. Almost everyone "got it", didn't care if that labeled them a "tea-bagger" or whatever. And yeah, I'm a Republican - I think they suck a little less than the Democrats - and really, we're pretty much a 3rd-party in MA already, so it still feels like an insurgent movement.
I do know and like Scott Brown quite a bit, though. We're not bowling buddies or anything like that, but it doesn't take long speaking with the man to figure out what you see is what you get. I really hope this Mr. Smith isn't changed by going to Washington, it will be very disappointing (not my first ride on that merry-go-round, either, unfortunately).
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 15:34
#199719
ROFLCOPTER
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 01:11
#199077
radical political change is now essential to deal with the radical economic restructuring going on at the global level. Do I smell a real opening for the "third way"?
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 01:19
#199080
The Dems are going to get killed in the mid terms. The market will sniff this out very early. When that happens (and who knows, it may start tomorrow) this market will get crushed.
Why is it that the economists/stratagists who saw the debt implosion are now backing away from the market dropping below 666? Rosenberg, Faber, etc saw this whole thing coming. I see the market topping due to the fact these experts are capitulating on their forecasts. This market will go below 666. It is inevitable. This is not a doom and gloom call, it is a reality driven call.
Once we wipe out and restructure a huge chunk of the debt at the household and biz levels, and reduce dramatically the private sector debt, we can begin to have real growth. I bet we could be on the path to real growth in 2-3 years. That's what I'm hoping for.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:51
#199402
I thought the call was for below 666 in 2010.
2011 should see new lows.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 01:24
#199083
This is an embarrassment. It won't amount to anything more than that. The administration is already weak and apparently incompetent; this won't make it any weaker or any more effective. Carry on.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 01:26
#199084
the smell lol is the same old same old .
can any one 15 years old or older not see through these political statements..
the powers are now in secret meetings.. gaming the emotional appeal.. the usa is on to a third world wet rag.. the tilt is to the east.
best hold on to your ankles if you think this mASS VOTE MEANS SQUAT
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 16:07
#199773
Fleshlight now bouncing off the Caps Lock key.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 01:31
#199088
jim sinclair on the mass election
Final Thought For Today:
there are two things you can be absolutely sure of.
1. A total panic over unemployment with untold amounts of dollars being thrown at the economy.
2. If "BB" Ben Bernanke moves one inch off the "QE to Infinity" track, the Fed will be closed down two days later.
If you think any of that is dollar positive or gold bearish, you are bonkers.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:09
#199328
This analysis makes less sense to me than the one presented in the article above. I do worry that this is only the case because I want Bruce's analysis to be the correct one, however.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:55
#199407
Doesn't mean we won't see another round of deflation before inflation.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 12:41
#199470
+1
Deflation first and inflation later is my bet.
Stocks deflating today...
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 12:56
#199500
+1 (or NOT-Junk, !Junk, whatever)
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 01:35
#199089
It is a real bad time to be an incumbent.
Guys in power bad; outsiders good.
Worked against Bush and the Republicans, worked for Obama and the Democrats in 2008.
Worked for Obama and against Hillary in the 08 primaries.
Worked for Brown in Mass., will probably work for Palin, Huckabee, etc. in 2012. I have a hard time seeing Obama engineer a repeat of the Reagan comeback/turn-around from '82 to '84. Obama's only chance is if the Republicans regain control of Senate or House later this year.
Expect lots of churn all over the country at all levels of government. It doubt it will correlate with party; instead it will correlate with states in fiscal trouble and/or high unemployment.
The electorate's "pissed off" rating has been on a slow but steady increasing trend. Will only accelerate this decade. I can't imagine why anyone would want to win an election any time in the next decade. We are still a long way from organizing the political will/consensus to affect a real change.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 13:32
#199495
"will probably work for Palin, Huckabee, etc. in 2012" Probably a good estimate. Those two would be perfect during the martial law event that will occur when people finally take to the streets. Citizens of a third world country dressed in designer clothing driving late model cars (until the gas stations shut down) with a "what the fuck happened look" on their faces. The videos will be shown abroad and the laughter will be deafening.
This time period can not be compared to '82 to '84 by any stretch of the imagination. The game was far from complete then but the masters made great strides during the Reagan period. Almost perfecting the scenario but not quite there yet.
By '97 - '98 the mastery had evolved to its highest form. All that was left was to set the events in motion that would obliterate the system. We see it now today. We are now witnessing the time that has been planned for by the money elite for close to a century.
Anyone who thinks the Bilderbergers and Trilateralists give a rats ass about our sorry existence is completely delusional.
They will try to exterminate us.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 15:50
#199747
Didnt Huckabee as Governor pardon that psychotic who gunned down four law enforcement officers near Seattle recently?
Palin?
The videos will be shown abroad and the laughter will be deafening.
True that. The terrorists must be quite pleased watching all this. And Satan.
Btw, if it werent for Haiti's misfortune, we might not have ever seen Bush's face again. Why do you imagine that is?
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 16:12
#199784
A better question is why do you think I even care why that is?
The system is finished.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 01:54
#199102
What is going to be more influential in the Fed's decision to forgo QE2, the lack of political will, or an improved economic outlook given that ambitious bills on healthcare, cap-and-trade, and higher tax rates are going to be scaled back?
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 08:10
#199200
Even with healthcare and cap-and-trade dead the headwinds facing our economy are monsterous. We are talking about a difference in the size of iceburgs and our economy is the Titanic. A great and mighty ship that even God couldn't sink until well he did!
We will still be running 17+ U6 does anyone think that congress will suddenly cut unemplyment benifits.
Taxes will still be going up as the Bush cuts expire. We might not get massive increase's but a fairer implementation of them where those under 250k revert also but regardless taxes are going up.
The other problems such as Fannie, Freddie, SS, The states looming defaults, Medicare, Pension and Medicade will still kill us its just a matter of how slow we will bleed out.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 02:09
#199111
I agree that the administration has taken notice, but their response will be different. Remember how little kids act when they have gotten in trouble? They deny anything happened and act as if nothing happened. That is the way of politicians, liars and thieves.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 02:13
#199112
While I firmly believe that the Mass vote was about the bankers,the MSM is already coming up with the "health care" execuse. Well I don't believe that,for a simple reason,because Mass itself has a state mandated health care initiative. So for them to be discontent over that issue will be very hypocratical. I think all the previous lost elections for dems were about one and only one issue:The anger over the full control of Wall St. of DC.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 02:35
#199115
If the system is irrevocably broken, is this election really significant on any major level? It seems to me that as much as it is an indicator, the political economy of the US is so f*&^%ed up that no amount of 'signalling' from the electorate is going to stop what was set in motion in late '08.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 13:04
#199518
I wholeheartedly agree. The bailout culture that took over late 2008 will continue unabated. Invariably Dems will see their big problem as one of communication and message. We saw some of that with Obama's hopeless "fat cats" comment.
One of the failings at Rome's collapse was the focus on rhetoric in academia and public discourse. We now suffer from the same narrow mindedness and our leaders have collectively forgotten how to DO and ACT. Even the Fed now puts public perception as a key monetary tool. More time and attention is put into the statements and public posture of the Fed than any of the spaghetti-on-wall strategies they've come up with.
Expect Dems all up and down the leadership to bemoan certain misconceptions and highlight the need to focus on certain messages. Do not expect any Dem from the President on down to actually DO anything different, as that would communicate weakness (according to any political communications strategist).
IMHO the Dems should just get rid of the filibuster and ram through their agenda...cause I can guarantee thats what will happen in 2012 but under a different party.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 16:18
#199792
It is broken beyond repair. The continuing "elections" covered and analyzed in depth by "the media" is just everyone sticking to their assignments until they receive new orders.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 07:48
#199116
If the economy does not improve, there could be a serious political crisis in the U.S....and it's hard to see how the economy will improve.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 02:50
#199120
From Kansas (Topeka) I think Wilderman (above) has it right.
Unfortunately, I don't think that this administration will accept the results for what they are or what they mean.
Instead of accepting responsibility for what has (or has not) happened, it is blaming Cokely--who was just a symbol for the failure of what is hapening.
Obama scammed us all big time. We need to learn from this.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 03:27
#199131
Brown knew that GOP is not popular either, therefore he labeled himself as "independent.: I hope this is the start of the coming"independent" movement, independent from status quo, wall street, military industrial complex.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 03:36
#199135
Spin spin spin. Coakley blew it! She ran the Hillary Clinton strategy: "it's just destined that I'm going to win so let's not get out there and feel the hunger".
This will be in the news for 3 days and then something else will appear.
Whether this is really a referendum depends on the precinct maps: if the eastern MA libs voted in a weirdo who thinks Obama was born out of wedlock, there's a problem. (Yes, he said that a year ago on a cable noise show.)
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 03:48
#199137
i agree that its dollar positive but disagree that its big bank negative. Whilst there may be fewer bail outs there will also be lighter regulation and I think that is marginally positive.
I think its going to far at this stage to proclaim the end to BB et al
Can all the fucking idiots please stay off the comments post with retarded comments like "lynch em" and boring polemics....
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 04:08
#199142
Commiefornia only gets 78cents back on every buck it sends to DC. It needs that 22cents.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 05:14
#199160
I agree with your sentiments Mr. Krasting. But...
Mr. Change will come to all the wrong conclusions from this election.
You see... Mr. Change turned into Mr. Slick less than 30 days after his election when he rolled out his economic team full of loser Rubinites.
Mr. Slick thought he could BS the public, lie about everything he campaigned on and do the opposite. He and his team of economic and political stooges (of which Rham Baby is the head political stooge) thought the Amerikan public were just too stupid to remember what Mr. Slick campaigned on.
Here is a clue White House bitches... we all have copies of Obullshit's "Blueprint for Change."
If you are going to lie out your ass so often people can't tell if it is your breath or whether you just farted... then maybe you should not put your bullshit the public plan in writing. You will hear another one of those disingenuous speeches about "I get it." Then Mr. Slick won't get it and screw the public some more.
Obama has done nothing but screw the public at every turn. But he and Summers will just come with another disingenuous deceptive plan. Remember, Mr. Slick and Fat Larry are smarter than us... just ask them.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 05:25
#199161
"-The days where the Fed and Mr. Bernanke get to establish broad economic policy without taking into consideration the mood of the public is over."
INCORRECT - you are overestimating the public's understanding of the FED as the heart of darkness in this crisis
"But to me it means that the possibility of QE2 is done"
INCORRECT - without continued QE the game ends here and now, it won't happen.
"There will be no second stimulus bill."
INCORRECT - future stimulus will be positioned as "job creation initiatives" . The public will swallow it hook, line and sinker.
"I read the election result as being dollar positive"
INCORRECT - Uncle sugar knows the banks are insolvent, easing off the pedal of 0 interest and QE brings us back to square one and worse.
"Tim Geithner’s ship went down in Massachusetts."
CORRECT - Turbo Tax Tim will be offered as a sacrificial lamb to the masses at some point, this may have advanced the date of the sacrifice.
"I would not say the market is a screaming short. It is not, yet. It just got closer however."
CORRECT - Health Care "reform" failing will not be market positive.
"I can see how some health care companies might see a pop in their stocks for a few days. This group I would short."
CORRECT - They popped up in anticipation of the bill passing, they'll pop down in it's absence.
"There will be no fix on Social Security this year"
CORRECT - Brown or no Brown, they would have not been a "fix" in SS this year.
"There will be no significant steps to address the problems at the mortgage Agencies; Fannie, Freddie and FHA"
CORRECT - It's all about saving the banks, end of story.
"We have several states that are on the edge of a fiscal crisis. I thought that there would be some form of Federal assistance for them this year. "
MAY BE - By the end of the day, what other choice do they have?
"If you were a TBTF institution you just hated this vote. This is bad for the Citi’s and BoA’s, but it just downright terrible for the likes of GS."
CORRECT - Sooner or later an "orderly" wind down of one of these TBTF is unavoidable. I vote for that toxic cess pool called City.
"The bailout mentality is over."
MAY BE - I'm not sure we're done with stealth bailouts yet
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 05:51
#199166
What was disappointing was his homage to Ted 'Boyo' Kennedy.
Kennedy spent 30 years piling on national debt likely in the trillions for programs he couldn't or wouldn't raise taxes to pay for, where the people could have then said. "Hey! Wait a minute! I want something for nothing!! If you have to take my money to pay for these socialist programs giving you a bye, and give it to someone else, then you're outa here!!" Sparing us the trillions in unfunded liabilities and a saner approach to governance.
We'll see what he does, how long it takes to co-opt him. If he's truly one of us, "TheIndependents", we'll know soon enough if he's just one more dud. My cynicism is not on hold.
AS for ".... overestimating the public's understanding of the FED as the heart of darkness in this crisis..", you are being very generous to think that 1 in 100 people who vote (1 in 100,000,000 for those who don't vote)understand what the FED has done. I have yet to meet one of my associates who can tell me what the FED actually is supposed to do, and what they have done, and what it does, other than some iterating some lame-brained sound bites.
It's enough for me that thise vote was a bitch slap in the face of Dodd, Frank, Cox, TheBamster, Geithner, Bernanke, Rubin, Paulson, Kashkari,Friedman, Orszag, Gensler, and the rest of the Tribe.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:15
#199333
Like it or not, the Swimmer is a God in Mass. Brown was simply letting everyone know that HE knows what the score is (i.e., a Republican taking over God's Democratic seat is an extraordinary turn of events), and whether one agrees with the old fart's policies/votes or not, Brown is getting a great job due to God assuming room temperature.
I wouldn't read too much into it -- it's just a way of showing the heavily Dem state that he gets it. No harm in giving the old goat a last hurrah even if he doesn't deserve it, and it generates something resembling warm feelings for those who might otherwise vote against him in the next general election simply because of the (R).
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 05:59
#199169
I don't believe President Obama will be dissuaded from pursuing his radical socialist agenda. It's who he is and what he believes in.
Just about every other member of Congress who wants to have a job after the November elections probably didn't get much sleep last night.
The message of the election for the first time in a generation of a Republican Senator from Massachusetts filling Ted Kennedy's (the father of health care reform) vacant Senate seat is simple:
We, The People, hate your policies, we hate your politics, and we are revolting at the ballot box. Viva La Revolution!
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 06:11
#199172
Kennedy was not in favor of Health Care Reform. He was in favor of Socialism, communism for the masses (but don't you plebes dare touch the fucking beachfront he doesn't even own with a windmill!) truth be told.
He wanted single payer government controlled (READ: Monomania for himself gone nuts) cradle to grave, forget about personal responsibility for his supporters.
I wish he were alive to have been thrown out on his ass.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 12:50
#199490
+1
Obama will stick to his radical agenda, but Congress is going to be fearful in going that route.
We, The People, want our country back!
Wish I could find more of those Pt Eagles, Instant!
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 06:13
#199173
Ponzi schemes fall apart, leaving chaos.
Chaos always looks like a lot of stuff from the old paradigm.
Until it doesn't.
Social Security is the prime example.
There is no escape.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 06:18
#199175
Angry voters = Incumbant Pres In Trouble = Down Stock Market, Down $USD, Up Metals.
Watch out for Mr. O's hissy-fit, though...
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 06:54
#199179
I suspect that the topic of conversation will soon shift from DC to the various states and localities and their massive shortfalls that will not be addressed this year as it was last with massive transfers to local governments under stimulus 2. This spring & summer will be the first time many citizens will have to come face to face with our fiscal realities and folks are gonna cry. From the projects to the board rooms the first real signs of belt tightening are coming and this will suck all of the O2 out of the air.
Of course the public mood souring by the nanosecond. What will public reaction be if mortgage securitization fails without the fed playing the role of the market? Will folks go for the standard line that "stability" is needed or will they say no and mean it? And what will happen when the reality sets in that taxes will have to go up and spending will have to go down, for years? There are many unanswered questions and I agree that vital time will be lost on a whole host of issues. The key will be in how rapidly the political class loses the capacity to act at all without total cynicism from a public that is rapidly losing faith that our social institutions and those of the two political parties who lead them can meet the challenges that lie ahead....
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:41
#199384
Would one be prosecuted for handing out flyers detailing outrageous salaries for local public employees? Would that be "inciting a riot"?
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 12:37
#199462
It has been true throughout human history that a term as sheriff sets one up for life....
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 12:54
#199496
Ha! I can see that. Openly armed politician.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 06:49
#199180
I think this ( and the NJ and Virginia votes) were simply the American people telling Washington to wake up. The healthcare bill is pre September 18th politics, atavistic legislation that, while important to Obama and his party, is so out of tune with today's reality it boggles belief.
Piling new entitlements on top of existing ones while the existing ones are crumbling from the collapse in revenue confronting the government made me wonder if Obama and the Democrat leadership had any idea at all of the state of the US economy.
The American people want their jobs back and if that means Trade Wars so be it.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 12:51
#199492
+1 well said
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 12:51
#199493
+1 well said
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 06:58
#199181
Let's not get too excited about this vote. Cap and Trade or Carbon taxes will come in through EPA "regulations" as Executive Branch has usurped and will continue to usurp the Congress. Progessive agenda hasn't change and they will do whatever it takes to make the "right" decisions for the sheeple who don't really know how to run things (according to them). They have the power and will use it. It will mean higher taxes and more spending one way or another. Dollar is still toast and will be a lot lower in 6 months than it is today. Heath care "reform" will continue, even if not exactly as now. They just need to get the camel's nose in the tent...and they will.
groovyroovy
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 10:00
#199266
Spot on.
At the end of the day, this vote means nothing, in spite of what all the political pundits and MSM talking heads think.
The current ideologues in Congress are on a mission; they have the numbers; they have the battle plan. They won't be swayed by any "message" sent now- or in November.
And I don't have much faith in the electorate...yet.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 07:22
#199182
Completely disagree with no QE 2.0. The fact of the matter is it has to happen in order to prevent instant implosion. Besides, I would argue QE is one of the few things that can be done under the cover of ignorance in how monetary policy works.
Secondly, there will be a Stimulus II in the form of a state bail out. Tax revenue continues to decline and its the only option left.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 07:24
#199183
Nothing is going to change for the better....
Until these occur.....
1) Banks separated from the securities business....banks have turned into hedge funds....they are supposed to be banks....
2) Tax structure change....
Eliminate individual/corp. taxes....
The US has to design tax structure to favor business in all sizes....
The US cannot continue to seek more from less....as this is certain demise....
Solution is clear....A 15% Consumption tax only...10% to the states....5% to the Fed....absolutely no other taxes of any kind....With this structure.....the US marches ahead in all types of manufacturing....
3) Removal of legal largesse....
The next phase is the age of business friendliness....not business destruction by lawyer ambulance chasers....
4) Removal of the FED lobbyist system....the power goes to the states who manage their affairs locally....and the population vote by internet on all project categories as to how taxes are expended....Wash. just becomes a focus of information.....and not power....the states hold the power....and the management responsibilities locally....
5) Education by internet.....basically no cost to students....
Education to the WILLING....
6) Health care....must exhibit pricing via the internet...and be subject to competition nationwide....states will vote how much they are willing to fund....if anything....
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 07:27
#199184
Here's what we want in Massachusetts:
A)Enough of the help to the TBTF and bankrupt
entities, whether it's through legislation, Treasury,
or manipulation of interest rates by the Fed
B)Enough of the "nice" legislation like health
care that we have lost the ability to afford due
to all the spending on A above.
C)Enough of Frank, Dodd, Pelosi, et al. We are well aware
of their central role in bankrupting the country.
D)Do we love Scott Brown? Is he the Republican messiah?
No....he was voted in by the Independent majority in
Massachusetts. Independents despise the epidemic corruption within BOTH parties.
Brown's been elected because he's not "owned" yet. The biggest error he can now make is to get carried away
with his own press and kowtow to the equally corrupt
Republicans. Look to Bernie Sanders, Scott, or be
replaced in two years. Good luck.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 10:48
#199310
Bernie Sanders is nothing more than a free-lance Congressman-for-hire without political affiliation. He'll take money from ANYBODY!
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 07:40
#199187
Bruce Krasting takes an "it's all about me" approach to event analysis. He seems to think that the Mass election proves the issues that are important to him are also the pivotal issues in the election. Watershed, yes, Krastings' pet peeves, not so much.
I personally voted for Obama's implied populism. I will never vote for him again, because he turned tail and ran away from his promises (some real, some only implied, as I now realize). To me, his presidency looks too much like the one before him.
I would vote for a Democrat, if made in the image of Alan Grayson. I would vote for a Republican, if only in the mold of Ron Paul. Otherwise, I'll spend my energy getting ready for the meltdown, because our politics is broken.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 13:12
#199532
+1
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 13:24
#199551
I would vote for a Democrat if it was Ron Paul.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 15:47
#199744
Sorry you saw it that was. When I was writing it I was not thinking of me. I was thinking of us.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 16:10
#199779
+1000
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 07:55
#199193
if you think there is difference between republican and democrat you are a fool. all theater for the sheeple. wake up world, our gov't was co-opted by the rich long ago.
your media is a lie. your gov't is a lie, in 2012 jesus is coming and there is no jesus fools. it will be a staged act as the global elites unleash biowarfare, famine, genocide, chaos...death and destruction on a massive scale. --- Idiots!
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 12:44
#199479
you can buy cheer or tide or vote republican or democrat they are both owned by procter & gamble.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 08:01
#199195
Now is the perfect time to elect Republicans, so we have a Republican in the White House and in both houses in Congress. Then let's see how fast jobs do or don't get created. On a lighter note, someone should put the Cosmo centerfold in front of Sarah Palin and see if she knows who the man is!
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 16:16
#199789
You betcha! I think the Republican's track record on employment is pretty much self evident right now. Actors, alcoholics, weather girls and pin-up boys make shitty Politicians.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 08:01
#199196
Where is Project Mayhem?
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 12:55
#199497
+1
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 14:24
#199625
Good question. Should one look, he is no longer listed as part of the ZH team.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 08:15
#199203
It's an election in Massachussetts. Big F'n deal. People buried DC under a blizzard of faxes and phone calls against TARP and it didn't matter. They elected a black guy (!) as president and it didn't matter. The rhetoric may change a bit, but I suspect it will be BAU in Washington until people are physically replaced (in an election) or they are no longer able to write checks. Look at the states like Illinois. It is BAU until the credit card doesn't work anymore.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 08:56
#199206
Bruce,
Excellent article. I agree with you, everyone is focused on healthcare but the real story is Timmy G. His days are numbered so he is already preparing for his next job on Wall Street or "consulting" some hedge fund. Stimulus 2.0 looks all but a dead right now, but it depends on how the economic recovery unfolds. If it fizzles, the Dems will try cramming it through.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 09:04
#199225
The stimulus fizzling is a foregone conclusion. Japan has great highways -- so much for those 'shovel-ready' projects.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 15:45
#199738
That's the point Leo, The cram down option is dead. It died last night in Boston.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 15:45
#199740
That's the point Leo, The cram down option is dead. It died last night in Boston.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 08:48
#199215
I actually see a small glimmer in this election's result.
Not a Dem' vs. 'Pub glimmer. I do not subscribe to that false paradigm.
Not a most folks are now very aware of the Fed's actions/monetary "policy." I am part of too many conversations each week where it is painfully obvious that folks still don't "get it."
No, the glimmer of hope I see is that 52% of those voters reached an incomplete state of dissatisfaction with the status quo. Although incomplete, this dissatisfaction still manifested itself in those people voting against status quo/incumbents/political machinism. This gives me a glimmer of hope that the sea change of widespread and well-informed dissatisfaction is much closer than I believed prior to last night.
Remember, there is strength in numbers.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 08:55
#199219
The independent and centrist voters who supported Obama wanted a new Teddy Roosevelt. What they got was an ineffective FDR who has allowed two idiot Congressional leaders to destroy his presidency. Obama has a choice now: tell Reid-Pelosi to shut up and follow his lead or become a 3-year lame duck.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 09:09
#199226
Totally agree with you gigeze787. President Obama needs to be a hell of a lot more assertive, shunning Pelosi and Reid, laying down his agenda for reform. But on the economy, which is what matters most, he needs to get rid of Geithner and Summers and replace them with guys like Michael Hudson (yeah, I am dreaming but hey, look at the crop out there!). At least put in Ken Rogoff who has served as Economic Counsellor and Director, Research Department of the International Monetary Fund, and knows a lot more about crafting balanced policies that take into account the needs of Main Street.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 10:54
#199315
That assumes he is even capable of being more aggressive. The idea that he defered healthcare to Pelosi and Reid when he was (at the time) the most popular politician in a generation completely defies logic. He should have made that his own from the very beginning. Had he done so, then it would have been signed into law by the August recess. His deference is clearly an indication that he really has no idea how to lead. Nobody should be surprised by that either.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 09:12
#199232
Obama became a lame duck on September 12th.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 10:14
#199273
I disagree with most of your thoughts on Obama's choices going forwards. Obama, Reid and Pelosi are three birds of the same feather, and never stopped flocking together. Reid & Pelosi have been following Obama's lead from the start, and if anything, their forwardness has allow Obama to stand in the shadows while they handle the dirty work on his behalf.
I can't speak for the expectations of the American public, but Obama had FDR-esque policies in his sights from day one. Change was simply a catch-phrase designed to imply whatever the listener wanted to hear, while keeping Obama obligated to nothing. He openly discussed taxing the rich, "helping real working Americans," and instituting national health care- the sum of which blows past progressive politics and places him on the tipping point of socialist.
I do agree, however, that Obama needs to step back and decide which direction to take from this point forwards to ensure his remaining tenure isn't completely lost. Ironically, this seems remarkably similar to the position Bill Clinton was in back in early 1994, just before Hillary-Care failed and the Dems lost power in Congress.
What kind of "change" would we see if Obama started coming back to the center à la Billy Boy?
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 12:15
#199445
Good point regarding the similarities to Bubba in 1994. Unlike Clinton, however, Obama is tethered tightly to the liberal left and Clinton only pretended to be such when he needed to. So when he realized the '94 Congressional rout was all about the disaffected Center, he quickly moved there fast enough to save himself in the '96 elections.
Independents are a driving political force now.....much more so than in '94. They are generally centrists on social issues and conservative on fiscal issues. Events of the past year have the pro-Obama voters in that group feeling betrayed ( even though they shoulda' seen the radicalism coming ). You can bet the GOP theme will be about moving to center. The Dems are handcuffed.
I expect a bigger bloodbath for the Dems in November.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 08:57
#199221
One more positive result from this election - it removes Lieberman from being #60, and all the ass kissing that went with that distinction.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 09:28
#199242
The fact remains that there will be a whole lot more of that going on.. I am just so overwhelmingly happy that Arlen Specter gets to enjoy his decision as well.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 10:44
#199308
Barney Fwank applauded the drop from 67 to 60, and then said it's anti-Democratic and, "God didn't create the filibuster."
I think he is using the ambiguity of whether or not he meant anti-democracy, which in this case is fine because the Founding Fathers created a Constitutional Republic, not mob rule, or anti-Democrat, to his advantage.
Oh! the befuddled minds of our peers. Have we forgotten the intent of a bicameral legislative process?
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 13:36
#199566
Lieberman! Now there is one of Nature's Natural Noblemen!
He needs to be out of government today. He is completely qualified to be the assistant to the personnel manager of a wastewater plant.
Fuck Lieberman.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 16:28
#199803
True that.
That turd is qualified to be processed inside of a wastewater plant.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 09:05
#199227
That win was for you Valerie Jarrett, and for you Van Jones.
That win was a response to the attempt to radicalize a country.
That win was for trying to turn a 234 year old country into something it is not.
That win was a warning shot to a stunningly tone deaf administration.
Obama: Turn yourself into something that you are not; We won't do that. Otherwise just quit.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 09:07
#199228
Disagree with several of the conclusions.
- Regarding Fed policy, I don't think the typical voter here in Mass understands any better the role of the Fed. Thus I dont see the impact on Ben that you do.
- While I agree that we will hear rhetoric about fiscal conservatism, that will merely translate into tax cuts without substantive spending cuts. Health care costs will not be reined in and nor will defense spending.
- I dont think that TBTF banks are as harmed by this. My informal assessment of voters I know here in Mass shows that they blame congress and "regulators" more than GS or Citi and Scott Brown will be a 'good' Republican and oppose any Obama financial reform plans.
Agree that:
- No more stimulus; no more bailouts; no SS fix; no healthcare fix; no significant mortgage agency reform.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 09:13
#199233
Bruce, you place entirely too much faith in the Republican Party.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 09:25
#199240
+1
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 09:49
#199254
I'm all for "sending a message to D.C." but we're out of choices. We had two "tsunami" elections in 2006 and 2008. Now in 2010. Are we going to whipsaw between the two failed parties every two years?
Despite the waste and corruption, there is some actual business that needs to get done in D.C. sometimes. There isn't a leader in sight.
At this point, I don't see how replacing one party with the other gains us anything. Do we really believe that suddenly Republicans are "fiscally conservative"? I don't.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:28
#199360
I so completely agree with that sentiment -- the two party system is failing us. This is the UNITED states, yet the two parties are locked in an intractible game of trying to divide the map into plots of red and blue.
I want honesty. I want less government. I want accountability. I get neither from either party.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 16:33
#199820
+1000
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 09:16
#199236
"we aught to tighten our belt a few notches."
Aught...really? You ought to learn to spell because it looks like you know aught.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 15:43
#199735
My copy editor is responsible for this mistake. After the election results came in she started drinking hard. It's possible that illegal substances were involved as well. Anyway she was down for the count before I finished. Sorry for the error. Be sure that the appropriate punishment will be meted out.......
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 09:40
#199245
bruce,
dig this.
he will vote for health care even though he campaigned against it. so make sure you know this. trust me. he will. he is nothing but a shabbat goy. remember. the people who voted for him wanted change. and like obama, they will get change, whatever the present definition of that term is now.....
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 09:40
#199246
One comment - TERM LIMITS!
In a nation of 300M+ why do we have a senate of 100 people enjoying 20 years in office? Are these the only 100 people in the country who can do the job? Let's get real.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 09:45
#199249
I have said the same thing for 20 years! There is something profoundly wrong with a system given the fact that there are millions of qualified people capable of real leadership, and all we end with are these stupid "dynasties" like the Kennedy family and the Bush family. Puke.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 10:20
#199284
I wholehearted agree with you. But don't hold your breath waiting for it- Congress would need to legislate that for/on/against themselves. The longer they stick around, the lesser the odds of them being productive and beneficial to society, and the greater the odds of them becoming severely corrupt.
+1000
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:44
#199316
Better to reign in campaign finance, which ensures massive media spin and exposure domination, to allow the People to truly elect who they feel will best fight for their interests.
But, alas, I cannot disagree with Unscarred because allowing our legislators to handle it now is a conflict of interest. The Press isn't the Press anymore, it's the Media, so our countrymen will have no idea what is going on no matter what happens, as usual.
Repeal the 17th, re-assert States' right of sovereignty from the centralized gov't the Founding Fathers tried to protect us from under the 10th, and let's roll up our sleeves and sharpen our pencils. They probably have not taught the importance of State sovereignty for decades. I mean, that's what I would suggest, but my view of any future progress is quite cynical.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:37
#199380
Gimp - You normally put up excellent commentary, but this time ya missed it. The only thing term limits do is detract from the particular politician from getting their crumbs. Term limits won't change who writes legislation, how it gets enacted or how the rule of law will be adhered to.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 12:10
#199419
Miles- you are the man, but I've gotta call ya to task here...
IMO, the longer politicians stay in office, the more tricks they learn, and the more shenanigans they're capable of pulling off. Given enough time, grandiose schemes (like 5000 earmarks on one bill) become the norm.
To give you an analogy, one of my best friends is an instructor at Fort Lewis (two Iraq tours). He told me, once after basic and a second time after his first Iraqi tour, that if he knew now what he knew then, he would have done things totally differently- all of which to his advantage.
I think that the same is true with politicians. The more familiar they become with the process, the more apt they are to abuse and exploit the process. And I could be totally wrong, but that's what I've come to see in how most things in life turn out.
I do agree that, fundamentally, the legislative process will not change. But, I feel that the amount of abuse would decrease.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 12:48
#199482
The politicians only deploy the tricks they learn from those that also happen to write their legislation for them. I happen to believe that the newer politicians get abused far more easily and as a result try even harder to make their K Street masters happy and accepting of them. Ultimately, the system is so corrupt it really doesn't matter much. After all, earmarks total around what, 10 billion a year. Hell, that's is less than SocGen got from the previous administration on the AIG back door reach around. So, there it is.... I hear ya saying that 10 billion is a lot of money and I agree with you. I am just saying it matters not an old dog or a new one, the end result is the same +/- various crumbs. After all:
Innocence creates my hell....
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 13:00
#199508
Can't argue with ya, brother. We're really just splicing hairs at this point.
Have you ever gone back and read The Federalist Papers where our Founding Fathers warned against all of this shit? Amazing to think of what they fought so hard to gain independence from, only to become something even more convoluted and corrupt.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 13:04
#199520
Just don't overlook the fact it was the Anti-Feds and Jefferson that stood so adamantly opposed to potential centralization of power away from the states and individual. Their gift to all of humanity was The Bill of Rights.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 15:25
#199701
Dupe.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 15:24
#199702
Absolutely. A little bit more for ya:
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/910687.html
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 16:31
#199813
Great link. It's tricky, because in some ways I actually start to like Hamilton, but even Greenspan was Great in '66. Here are some excerpts, which in my opinion are some of the most ominous in view of our modern predicament:
When asked of his greatest achievement Andrew Jackson, a follower of Jefferson, replied:
Oh the irony! Hamilton opened Pandora's Box:
More irony yet: Hamilton was an agent of the banks:
Hey, they didn't specifically tell us we couldn't! That's like your wife telling you it was never made specific she couldn't sleep with your brother! Okay, maybe a stretch. Never trust the Treasury Secretary to go unsupervised.
Do you really want to give carte blanche power to somebody like this:
I'll stop. I love it when people tell me to read more history. "Yeah. I'm tryin'!"
For all you tin-foil hatters out there note that it's the U of Chicago.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 14:23
#199623
they were amazing gifted men, that lived in a certain time and in a certain place and they helped us get something no one in the world had up until that point, ever seen. did this happen by accident? i say no. so then, what shall we do now? let it die? let it go away. God forbid it. the 3 percent out here in the void are waiting for a sign. they are waiting until the time is right. We see them as they are. We see what is happening. We know their corruption and their lies. We know their treason. We know that they will never go away unless they are made to go away permanently. These are times that try men's souls. How much longer shall we sit and watch the destruction of this land, that was secured for us so long ago by men who knew the forces that were the real powers in this world but nevertheless, did the right thing for posterity. Shall we sit and let all their effort and hard work go to naught. God forbit it. Please God, let the people see and let them hear and help them to understand the gravity of the situation. The time is now and now is the time.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 13:01
#199511
+1, to Miles, too.
I think the solution is a completely unfettered Press. One that investigates even itself in order to stamp abuses and influences out of existence. If the people have access to the "boots on the ground" information we will have a more free society.
If the People believe a certain outlet is abusive their revenue will drop. There should be a very clear line between entertainment and information.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 09:51
#199257
Just another puppet in marianet land. Sooner than later he will get the hand out of his butt so he can grab a few strings to keep in the show.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 09:54
#199262
Let's hear it for CNBS's Jim Cramer who said that a Brown win would result in a massive stock market rally!
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 13:04
#199522
LOL!
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 09:58
#199264
Agreed with most. Unfortunately, the only real alternative to the Democrat stooge was a Republican meathead.
Romney on the podium and filial approval of John McCain shows how short-lived Scott Brown's stock rise will be.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 14:52
#199654
Romney on the podium and filial approval of John McCain shows how short-lived Scott Brown's stock rise will be.
Yup. Same old shit.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 09:59
#199267
"In my opinion the vote in Mass was a vote against the status quo......The message was clear to me, “If you want to keep your job as an elected official you have to do things differently.”
Wrong. Unless by "status quo" you mean how 12 months of Democratic control has played out. Partisanship is worse now. Legislative transparency is worst now. Cash / goodies / tax breaks for votes is worse now. Government expansion is worse now. Deficit spending is worse now. So elected officials are doing things "differently" then before 2009. It's just the majority of voters don't like it (although 47% in Mass seem to love it).
Obama jerked the reins to the left upon election (while inconsistent with his campaign, it is consistent with his character). This is a reaction against that.
This was NOT about bank angst. Brown clearly stated he is against the Obama tax on banks. You think anyone in Mass who is livid at banks can live with Brown's clear position on that tax?? No way.
Despite whether Mass voters think national healthcare affects them directly, a) they were not supportive of the content of Obamacare and b) more importantly hated the process (no transparency, goodies / breaks for friends of Democrats, etc).
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 16:46
#199850
i agree. the homosexual drug addict, rush limbaugh, was on the radio today proclaiming that is not the case. the vote was a vote against the democrats. he doesn't get it. people are mad and fed up, even in the people's republic of taxachusetts. what they got when they voted for this man, is another disappointment. what they are not seeing is that these people who run for office these days are controlled. but they are learning....... and fast i hope.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 10:03
#199269
Will Brown have the humility to see he is the lessor evil? I doubt it. The two party system can function just fine with ALL one term politicians so we are screwed. The people are angry. Beware they don't start removing politicians before the end of their one term.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:54
#199404
Wait until the idiot starts with the 911 terror bag of shit; the scanners in airports, the "we have to fight them there to so we don't have to fight them here" nonsense, the support of terrorizing Muslim patsies, let's bomb Iran, etc.
Dude's uplift is toast within 6 months.
Oh yeah, let's get Rudy to weigh in. That'll sell.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 10:18
#199281
Republicans....Democrats.....
Who cares!
You folks are missing the important prurient details.
Scott Browns wife, Gail Huff was SMOKIN hot in her day.
To appreciate you must watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3JNyIPJEuM&feature=PlayList&p=C34FF5E550...
Granted, Digney Fungus is (justifiably) only remembered on the South Shore and this was recorded before most of you were born.
but you have to see the money shot at 2:02.
She's bringing it!
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 13:31
#199560
LOL!
I thought, na, I've got better things to do. Then, after a second or two, ships going down anyway, might as well check it out.
JEEZ! With an expression like that I wonder when she first started! And then I noticed what the guy was singing about - and it's still family friendly.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 17:23
#199927
The expression is matchless. I haven't seen a better 'look' in any topical NSFW locations anywhere on the web. She could have been a pro. She was\is a really stunning woman. He daughters are testament to the genes.
In days gone by you used to see her in the old Elliot lounge (of Boston Marathon fame) and at Doyles in the days when the Orange line ran OVER the place. She also frequented the Beachcomber in Wellfleet. Man, the place used to go silent when she walked in!
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 10:19
#199282
How about for Senate elections the major two parties have to offer 2 candidates each, and they have to promote & lobby for both candidates on an equal financial basis. By splitting the vote, that would level the playing field a little for the independent candidates who are the only hope there is for busting the system.
Any shenannigans by central party to bias in favour of one of the pair will result in striking out of both.
Find a way to make that work.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 10:20
#199285
It would also produce a polite way to remove old warhorses and scoundrels.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 10:32
#199293
Arrogance - don't worry about any change in DC.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 10:44
#199309
+1
I wish I had read this before I posted on the same issue under "Front Running." My take is similar but also different. There is racism in the Democratic party and in the Democratic leadership that is blockading Obama's agenda - the one he was elected on.
We need healthcare reform, but the form it took was a abomination. Reid and Pelosi have to quit trying to be President and Vice President. That is not the job to which they were elected.
Washington's "Plantation Mentality" needs to be exposed to the light of day. We need a national discourse if we are to slip the bonds of racism.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 10:51
#199314
Banks also hate the result because it likely kills Cap "n" Trade, which is their next big scam to tie in with the global warming hysteria.
Also, re: state crisis, look out for Illinois as they are going bankrupt shortly.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:05
#199323
I'm going to boil it down to something simple.
"Mainstreet" becomes more aware, every day. And they know that all the bullshit strategies/tactics/ropeadope recently shoveled by TPTB would NEVER work in their own homes. So, if it won't work on a small scale, why would it ever work on a large scale.
Down here in Tennessee we say, "that dog don't hunt".
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:12
#199330
...strategies/tactics/ropeadope recently shoveled by TPTB...
delete "recently". This crap has been going on for years.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:46
#199394
+hunting dogs
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:16
#199334
Not permitted to vote for anyone representing an authentic alternative to the Regime, the people of Massachusetts, thinking that they have registered a protest, have simply intensified the problems we face, not that the choice of Coakley would have been any better. In truth, a choice of Coakley over Brown had the same significance as a choice to join the Stahlhelm instead of the Sturmabteilung. The instincts of the Tea Party crowd are largely brownshirt, purely and simply, and like Hitler's reining in Ernst Roehm, the Republican Party will now embrace and envelope them. They are hyper-Regime, not anti-Regime, and they are the strongest political force going at the moment. Let there be no mistake here, Hitler envisioned his movement as a "national revolution" every bit as much as do the Tea Party goers. They have the same smell and the same feel.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:20
#199345
"They have the same smell and the same feel."
Mein Kampf?!?!
Not me, baby.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:37
#199371
These are well intentioned people who have allowed gangsters and warmongers to give their movement its direction. I'll bet dimes to donuts that the reality of the Tea Party will last just through the next congressional election, just long enough for the Republicans to make maximum use of it. And then will come the interminable nightmare, the year after year of 12-15% unemployment with no heart whatsoever for recourse to needed fiscal measures to staunch it. And then, perhaps, an authentic peoples' movement will emerge.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 12:04
#199412
Very chewy, in a good way, today. I want to disagree, but this amorphous Tea Party/Independent/"Libertarian" (in quotes because Glenn Beck considers himself one; give me a break) movement is inherently weak because:
we are unlikely to see anything but more of the same unless we reach the point of general strike(s) - and that is when our society will be the most vulnerable to demagoguery; just like 30's Deutschland. I wonder if they will make comparisons between the Versailles Treaty and bailout legislation someday. Instead of paying for a war we're paying for bankers mistakes; which since 1913 go especially hand in hand.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 14:41
#199647
While the Tea Party rejection of the bailouts is entirely sound, the business of deficit paranoia at a time of record unemployment is simply daft. It reads directly from the traditional Republican songbook and, with its stress on restricted government, kills off the possibility either of regulation or nationalization of the biggest banks. Not that I feel there would be any possibility of meaningful reform even with the marginalization of these folks, I don't, its just that they make themselves willing tools of the worst instincts out there at the moment, those most typically signified by the Republican Party as the clearest carrier of fascist, neo-conservative ideology, i.e. deregulation, imperialist war, support for Israeli ethnic cleansing and the like. The Regime will not be brought to its knees by a militancy that places stress on it most fundamental tenets, it simply will be strengthened. One must stand wholly outside the system to be of any value to the people.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 15:01
#199667
The bias in your assessment of the Tea Party movement is revealed in your post above: the business of deficit paranoia at a time of record unemployment is simply daft. You are obviously one who believes in government as a positive power, and so the paradox is put to you: how to love the powerful government, while at the same time hating the extremes it goes to to achieve its aims?
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 16:44
#199816
"You are obviously one who believes in government as a positive power..."
Obviously, you say? That would be so only if one looks at government as itself the prime actor here and not the people that move it. Government, sir, contrary to the tenets of libertarian pseudo-religion, is not a moral agent. It is a sterile reality from a moral perspective, neutral, if you will. Only human beings possess moral agency and can render government positive or negative. There is no such thing as an intrinsically "positive" or "negative" government. Now, do I believe that government can be made to serve what are ultimately moral ends? Yes, indeed, I do. And do I believe dangerous a Tea Party phenomenon captured as it now is by a crypto-fascist, imperialist, neo-conservatism and domestically by an uncharitable, anti-deficit paranoia that places balance sheets ahead of unemployed, foreclosed-upon human beings? Yes to that question as well.
"... and so the paradox is put to you: how to love the powerful government, while at the same time hating the extremes it goes to to achieve its aims?"
Well, since it is the human beings behind government that are powerful and not the institution itself, there is no loving of government, as it were, and, therefore, no paradox, eh? Hope this helps.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 16:47
#199851
Which Libertarians have you been talking to? There is a palpable ferver, but if anything government is to be kept as small as possible or it becomes an immoral and oppressive agent, as we can see today. The solution?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQtMKGigFXQ
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 17:00
#199876
I have familiarity with the Lew Rockwell site and a number of the contributors there.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 19:14
#200071
There is no such thing as an intrinsically "positive" or "negative" government.
Well, since it is the human beings behind government that are powerful and not the institution itself, there is no loving of government, as it were, and, therefore, no paradox, eh? Hope this helps.
You may believe you have cleverly skirted the issue, using....cleverness, a common attribute among my Liberal friends who believe they have "won" when they work around an issue by avoiding it "cleverly". It shows disdain for those who disagree with you, as spoken from a perspective of self-supposed superiority. Is this also the purpose of the snarky "Hope this helps"? It is important to remind you that you will never convince anyone of anything when you begin by insulting them, even when in such an offhanded manner that you think they are too stupid to notice.
I disagree with your first statement above, vehemently. Freedom is always freedom from the government, however it is incarnated. Government is the negation of liberty, and as such is a negative force. Your kind of government reduces liberty to a bidding war, and me to a serf whose economic output doesn't belong to me but rather is bid upon by big government socialists and big government fascists.
on Thu, 01/21/2010 - 00:01
#200370
Well, you know, strange as may seem to you, it never occurred to me that I might be in a kind of contest with you when dealing with the questions you raised above, SW, although it would seem that that's not how you had perceived the matter. You had asked me for a resolution of a paradox and, since you quite clearly hadn't devised one for yourself, I'd provided one, and along with it my very fondest hope that you'd somehow gained in the experience. Now I note that your reply doesn't deal with the content of my explanation but merely with your emotional state in reading it. One certainly hopes that bruised sensibilities won't get in the way of your eventually grasping the logic involved. And, if you'll permit me a further observation, it might it profitable to begin envisioning "freedom" in a context less confining than the merely political, since freedom isn't always "freedom from the government, however it is incarnated". There is a more fundamental ontological freedom that one can enjoy even in the teeth of political oppression, one that lends authenticity to human life. It takes all the sting out of hurt feelings, trust me.
on Thu, 01/21/2010 - 08:21
#200541
Whatever your "more fundamental ontological freedom that one can enjoy even in the teeth of political oppression" is, I suspect strongly that it is a poor substitute for the real thing: genuine choice to order one's affairs in the manner one sees fit. All your replies in this thread seem to be made from a perspective of justifying or excusing overweening government. I really can't understand why you would do that, given the history of the failure of big government to do good, and its incredible capacity to do evil.
Your attempts to engender anger, or to claim to see it where it doesn't exist, adds nothing to the discussion and strike me as a bit pathetic. Come back to the subject, and let's deal with facts if possible.
While the Tea Party rejection of the bailouts is entirely sound, the business of deficit paranoia at a time of record unemployment is simply daft. It reads directly from the traditional Republican songbook and, with its stress on restricted government, kills off the possibility either of regulation or nationalization of the biggest banks.
In this statement, you bemoan "deficit paranoia" as "daft" and assign it to the "traditional republican songbook", restricted government, and the lack of "regulation or nationalization of the biggest banks". The most logical way for me to interpret this statement, especially in light of the vitriol that follows it, is as your opposition to the things you state the tea party supports: balanced budgets, limited government, bank failure rather than bailouts, etc. So, maybe you can tell me whether I have interpreted this incorrectly? Other socialists-in-drag I've encountered see the tea party movement in terms similar to yours, describing it the way Rachel Maddow would, unable to hide disdain. Other socialists-in-drag also have never been to one of these events and spoken to participants, so it is easy to assume they are republicans eager to aid the rise of the new demagogue and usher in a new fascism.
Certainly you can agree that we've been brought to this precipice by the failure of government and the failure of central banking; government and central banking cannot be the solution, unless of course you believe that government simply isn't yet powerful enough. The government has become a power unto itself, and for that the people have no one to blame but themselves. It's time to correct that. Are these dangerous times? Yes, moreso if you work for the government, as you might need to get a job actually making something.
Do you support deficits under any circumstances? All circumstances? Which ones?
What do you believe is the purpose of government?
What do you believe should have been done with the TBTFs?
Earlier you said that "rejection of the bailouts is entirely sound", but then go on to say the banks could have been nationalized or regulated. How can you regulate something that is actually bankrupt (dead)? Nationalizing them, functionally, is the same thing as bailing them out, as it keeps them in operation, only turning their business power over to....the government.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 16:38
#199830
He is Stalin's star prosecutor...
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 16:54
#199865
Shh!
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 12:24
#199451
did somebody just shoot Archduke Ferdinand?
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:23
#199349
The odds of the US committing financial suicide just went down considerably - along with the price of GOLD.
The American psyche will not self destroy.
Yes, a deflationary wipe-out will be painful. And, in my view, asset prices correcting to pre-1980 levels is all but inevitable (ESPECIALLY real estate).
So the banks get wiped out, along with all those who can't pay their debts.
Government reduces its size and scope by 70% - and then the healing can begin.
The Mass election was a game-ender for the doomers.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:41
#199388
Idiotic....the deflationary doom will
now intensify and overwhelm the markets.
Vampire squids boyz are abandoning ship
with far less gubbermint hand holding now
being in the offing.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 15:06
#199677
Government reduces its size and scope by 70% - and then the healing can begin.
I'd really like to believe that, but it will never happen voluntarily, and never by legislation. The only way such measures can come about are under extreme duress. The dependency class and government employees in the U.S. still vote, and with their supporters and rent-seekers they are a clear majority. Now, any libertarian worth the name could easily come up with a 70% reduction in the US budget, no sweat, by lunch time tomorrow.
on Wed, 01/20/2010 - 11:28
#199359
The market is signaling its thoughts on how a 59/41 Senate split will change things.