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Is The Consumer Protection Bill Just One Huge Governmental Subversion Of Privacy Ploy?

Tyler Durden's picture


If anyone has been curious why the Fed, banks and politicians have all been pushing for the "consumer protection" portion of the Financial Regulation bill, it appears we may have the answer. As reports, the bill "would create the Bureau of Consumer Financial Protection and empower it to “gather information and activities of persons operating in consumer financial markets,” including the names and addresses of account holders, ATM and other transaction records, and the amount of money kept in each customer’s account. The new bureaucracy is then allowed to “use the data on branches and [individual and personal] deposit accounts … for any purpose” and may keep all records on file for at least three years and these can be made publicly available upon request." Goodbye privacy, hello 1984.

More from CNSNews:

Shelby slammed the new consumer bureaucracy, saying that it was meant not to protect consumers but to “manage” them by monitoring their behavior.
“Mr. President, make no mistake, behind the veil of anti-Wall Street rhetoric is an unrelenting desire to manage every facet of commerce under the guise of consumer protection.
“They may be interested in protecting consumers, but they are more interested in managing them,” Shelby said.
Shelby also criticized the idea that Americans need government to watch over their every financial move, saying that it was better to allow people the freedom to make their own choices and fail than to never allow them the freedom to choose at all.
“Mr. President, I have faith in the American people and their ability to make good choices,” said Shelby.  “Granted, we do not always choose well.  But I believe that a poor choice freely made is far superior to a good choice made for me.”

And the punchline:

Shelby further said that the ability of the Federal Reserve to collect such detailed information about the most basic of financial transactions was the beginning of an effort by government to regulate every financial action of every American citizen.
“This new consumer bureaucracy is intended by its architects in the Treasury to begin the process of financial regulation with the intent of changing the behaviors of the American people,” said the senator.
Shelby appears to be correct. The bill allows the bureau to collect any and all information on any person operating in the financial markets.
As it reads: “[T]he Bureau shall have the authority to gather information from time to time regarding the organization, business conduct, markets, and activities of persons operating in consumer financial services markets.”

In other news, communist, and other, dictators everywhere are now copying the US constitution and laws verbatim, in their own attempts to recreate the biggest centrally planned, communist regime ever seen.

h/t John


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Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:40 | 372301 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

"It's a trap!"

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:08 | 372402 MisesFTW
MisesFTW's picture

It's a tarp?

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:25 | 372451 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

Time to create a new money, or engage in trade using non-money entities.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:55 | 372544 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

TARP trap!

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:21 | 372634 illyia
illyia's picture

The TARP's a cover for the TRAP...

And, they finally have Poindexter's TIA bugs worked out...

Ready, set: Monetize EVERYTHING .

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:59 | 372724 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture


No Wait!!!!

OK NOW, do it NOW!!!!

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:12 | 372412 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

So not only do we not get to audit the Fed, but the Fed gets to audit us.  See?

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:24 | 372450 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


In Russia the Fed audit you.


Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:43 | 372502 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Wow!  This new regime really can move fast on things they care about.

I may have to re-think my decision not to leave the USA (and fight it out in case things get Really Really Bad).

So Orwellian.  Double-speak.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:34 | 372801 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Mother of all backfires

Bugs: Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home?
Daffy: Shoot him now! Shoot him now!
Bugs: You keep outta this! He doesn't have to shoot you now!
Daffy: He does so have to shoot me now!
[to Elmer]
Daffy: I demand that you shoot me now!
[Elmer shoots him.]

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:41 | 372305 curbyourrisk
curbyourrisk's picture

When is it OK to start hating my country????

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:45 | 372322 PhD
PhD's picture

When they tell you too.


Any other questions?

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:13 | 372418 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture


Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:47 | 372328 koaj
koaj's picture

In Russia, country hates you!

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:03 | 372380 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

In America, your President loathes you.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:50 | 372494 knukles
knukles's picture

"They [the makers of the Constitution] conferred, as against the Government, the right to be let alone -the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilised men."
- Louis D. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States, 277 U.S. 483, 478 [1928]

"Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-WIlliam O. Douglas

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:25 | 372452 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

+1 Yakoff Smirnoff

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:36 | 372808 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

No Yakking Off in the forums please

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:49 | 372335 JohnKing
JohnKing's picture

Our country was founded on the overthrow of tyrannical government, that is our character, re-boot looks more likely everyday.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:33 | 372473 doublethink
doublethink's picture


A re-boot will occur after the S&P hits 380.


Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:58 | 372562 superman07
superman07's picture

reboot now!

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:32 | 372796 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Nah, we're much too soft.  We'll see no reboot till we're hardened by the appearance of a jackboot.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:54 | 372354 Let them all fail
Let them all fail's picture

yesterday.....anyone know if there would be any legal objection to this bill?  This has got to be illegal (at least for now)...

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:35 | 372479 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Gosh, and the Supreme Court will surely over turn it, right?

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:57 | 372548 knukles
knukles's picture

Anything be legal within the purview of the Patriot Act, and it ain't even been tested yet.  Pretty hard to attempt to address grievances in a Court of Law when under the Act, once deemed a "suspected" terrorist, one can completely disappear without Writ of Habeas Corpus, trial, access to counsel, petition or redress. 

And this is an infringement?  There are no more infringements. 

The Magna Carta Has been Shredded.   

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:00 | 372571 RonnieHonduras
RonnieHonduras's picture

You are a verbal terrorist.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 17:39 | 372958 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

"Gosh, and the Supreme Court will surely over turn it, right?"

You bet, MsCreant.  Just like they always do.  We're all perfectly safe and free.  Our economy is recovering and your health care will never be rationed.

Saying otherwise would be seditious!

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:59 | 372568 RonnieHonduras
RonnieHonduras's picture

Not when you pack the court with people who incrementally believe more and more intervention was what the constitution was supposed to mean.  Really, do you think any of this quasi-authoritarians wants someone in their who will actually say no?

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:02 | 372375 LoneStarHog
LoneStarHog's picture

Your "country" (i.e. The Republic) exists in the documents left to us by The Founding Fathers.  It has been subverted by an ILLEGAL government.  It is THAT government which you may hate.  Your "country", while presently existing only on paper, should still be loved and that for which we all must FIGHT.

There is a difference between The Republic (Country) and the government.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:39 | 372489 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Go HOG!!!! 

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:24 | 372647 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

+ 1000

We owe it to ourselves to try to correct it peacefully


If that is not a possibility, we see 1776 again.



Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:39 | 372819 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

death of 1K hanging chads

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:00 | 372718 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

FEMA has been quiet these days (Oil!). Too quiet.

Wonder if the coming months (weeks) will see evacuations from rising toxicity. Maybe even Continuity of Government actions out in the open...

According to James Bamford, “The existence of the secret government was so closely held that Congress was completely bypassed.”[2] (Key individuals in Congress were almost certainly aware.)


Brooks was responding to a story by Alfonzo Chardy in the Miami Herald. Chardy’s story alleged that Oliver North was involved with the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) in plans  to take over federal, state and local functions during a national emergency. This planning for “Continuity of Government” (COG) called for “suspension of the Constitution, turning control of the government over to the Federal Emergency Management Agency, emergency appointment of military commanders to run state and local governments and declaration of martial law.

Until then, get your Gringo Mask! and "erase stereotypes". Yay!

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:10 | 372758 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Amen, sooner(than later) they will push the GO button.

In their guessimate is BEFORE November.........has to be.

IF your leaving, best get a move on fast, if your staying, better be prepared..............

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:51 | 372867 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Yes Sir!

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 19:15 | 373188 spekulatn
spekulatn's picture

+ 13 trillion and...............2

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:41 | 372306 AR15AU
AR15AU's picture

Yep, just like "Net Neutrality"...  

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:53 | 372345 JohnKing
JohnKing's picture

"Net Neutrality" = GoogleTV


Another regulatory scam.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:43 | 372313 King_of_simpletons
King_of_simpletons's picture

Quick call the radio talk show hosts to vent. After that, carry on with business as usual.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:05 | 372385 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Best talk show in America, that I know of, Chris Plante on WMAL in DC, 9am-noon weekdays.  Guy is fantastic.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:27 | 372454 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


Phil Ochs nailed it oh so long ago, or so it seems.

Love Me, I'm a Liberal

I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
Tears ran down my spine
I cried when they shot Mr. Kennedy
As though I'd lost a father of mine
But Malcolm X got what was coming
He got what he asked for this time
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I go to civil rights rallies
And I put down the old D.A.R.
I love Harry and Sidney and Sammy
I hope every colored boy becomes a star
But don't talk about revolution
That's going a little bit too far
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I cheered when Humphrey was chosen
My faith in the system restored
I'm glad the commies were thrown out
of the A.F.L. C.I.O. board
I love Puerto Ricans and Negros
as long as they don't move next door
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

The people of old Mississippi
Should all hang their heads in shame
I can't understand how their minds work
What's the matter don't they watch Les Crain?
But if you ask me to bus my children
I hope the cops take down your name
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I read New republic and Nation
I've learned to take every view
You know, I've memorized Lerner and Golden
I feel like I'm almost a Jew
But when it comes to times like Korea
There's no one more red, white and blue
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I vote for the democratic party
They want the U.N. to be strong
I go to all the Pete Seeger concerts
He sure gets me singing those songs
I'll send all the money you ask for
But don't ask me to come on along
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

Once I was young and impulsive
I wore every conceivable pin
Even went to the socialist meetings
Learned all the old union hymns
But I've grown older and wiser
And that's why I'm turning you in
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:45 | 372318 The Rogue Trader
The Rogue Trader's picture

We always knew "Big Brother" would not be called "Big Brother"....more like something cute like "Google" or "Facebook"....

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:46 | 372325 Apostate
Apostate's picture

I love how the Senate can write a threatening letter to Facebook about privacy and then turn around and push a bill like this through.

Not to mention vote for the PATRIOT act.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:50 | 372339 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture



Complete and utter lawlessness on all levels.


“When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion — when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing — when you see money flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors — when you see that men get richer by graft and pull than by work, and your laws don’t protect you against them, but protect them against you — when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice — you may know that your society is doomed.” 

Ayn Rand

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:19 | 372434 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

I wasn't going to junk you, that was pretty good stuff, but you asked nicely so I did.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:48 | 372518 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I regret that I have but one junk to give for our cheeky bastard. [Sigh!]

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 18:24 | 373090 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

The Cheeky comment has been pulled. In no way should that have happened. I think Tyler has a bot that is pulling comments after so many junks. We need to be aware of this if I am correct.

The Cheekyness may have been kinda wrong (see my post below) and kinda right, but it had interesting content and should not have been censored.


BOOO us for too many junks. 

Cheeky, I sorry for junkin youse. I was playin. Didn't want you censored.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 20:01 | 373246 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

I think we deserve an explanation. And it has disjointed countless threads.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 20:37 | 373282 velobabe
velobabe's picture

he is my cliffsnotes, literary reference for information on scholastic subjects, philosophy, sciences, mathematics, and history.

WOW i missed all of the above in school.

even had to dictionary a lot of your post, as well, Mssss†

cheeky, don't feel badly about junked to removal.

i got banned from nate's economic edge blog today for posting one of my naked pictures.

well, he allows for images when you post, but probably limited to charts, which i don't have any.

hope your sleeping, we will try and take care of it†


Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:20 | 372438 suteibu
suteibu's picture don't like Rand.  Still, rather than trashing Rusty for quoting her, why don't you tell us all why this particular quote should be thrown out with the Rand bathwater?

And, please...chill out.  She's been dead for nearly 30 years.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:33 | 372474 Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

a) This particular quote is taken out of context since Rand said this in connection to bureaucracy and government; not in connection to the ways private capital operates. Also this quote is addressing the problems that, she considered, plagued USSR and she used USSR [a very popular argumentative method in that day and age] as a reference point to negate the need for a government and public service. 

b) Read the comment again; I have clearly wrote that this has nothing to do with Rusty, nor was I attacking him.

c) She is dead; but her theories [read; fringe bullshit dismissed by anyone even remotely introduced to philosophy, economics and history] are referenced as an answer to the mess we are currently in. Rand Paul openly preaches her Objectivist "philosophy" and echoes her stand regarding the structure of society and structure of commercial activities.

d) Rand is to "Wild West Capitalism" what Marx [and he is one of the most influential people who have ever lived] is to "Radical Materialism". Think about that.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:56 | 372546 suteibu
suteibu's picture

Wow, responses from the two I respect most.  I'm honored.

However, please explain how the effects of Rand's theories have had a more detrimental effect on our current economy than Keynes.  Or did I miss your Keynes rant?

Whether the quote was taken out of context, the usage by Rusty seemed appropriate.  What is wrong with it in the conteext that he used it? 

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:06 | 372584 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

You are the most arrogant overrated poster. Ayn Rand is right, Rand Paul is right, and if you don't like it who gives a fuck?


As for fringe bullshit, it is fringe bullshit that is running the economic system in this country and your country. Any Rand didn't get us in this mess, asshole. Keynes did.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:38 | 372685 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Wow! you really are a tough guy.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:12 | 372606 Rick64
Rick64's picture

As CB said this wasn't a personal attack on Rusty, but rather Ayn Rand's philosophy. The quote was one everybody could relate to, but I would give CB his due for giving out some constructive critisizm on her philosophy.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:11 | 372760 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

It's too bad governments as of late have trying on Marxist skin instead of Rand. I would like to see Rand in action, just once before I die. Rigid protections of private property instead of psychopaths promising to spread around what does not belong to them.

Wild West: if someone tries to take my stuff or force my hand they get shot. An armed society is a polite society.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:45 | 372847 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

They know not what they do.

Sad.  Me.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 21:43 | 373391 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

Rand believed Man defined the meaning of his life through his work-and as a research scientist I agree completely.  This is the central theme of her work.  That the individual and he alone should control that work/production.  This is as universal a truth in my experience as the Buddas' opinion that "desire is the source of all unhappiness".  The battle is always about the collective vs. the individual-freedom vs the false security of the state.  It just takes different forms in different eras.  The right to be left alone is the a fundamental one.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:38 | 372485 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"And, please...chill out.  She's been dead for nearly 30 years."

But some people think she's still stinking up the joint. :>)

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:07 | 372588 suteibu
suteibu's picture

How is she stinking up the joint?  No one in authority is listening to her, only on the internet.

What policies of hers are in effect?

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:39 | 372688 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Should I assume the smiley face :>) after my comment as well as the quoted text above it wasn't enough of an indication of my obviously lame attempt at humor?

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:45 | 372695 suteibu
suteibu's picture

Damn!  No, assume I wasn't paying attention.  Sorry.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:44 | 372693 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Perhaps. But most people are really too lazy to read thousands of books much less a few hundered. Even if they do they (may) lack the ability to form an insigtful opinion based on what they read.

Rand has had more exposure recently as a result of the connection to Greenspan and the increase in the number of movie scripts about her life and its impact (see paragraph 1).

This is part of what I politely call "The Bullshit Cycle"

Think for yourselves. Question authority. You will be much better off in the long run.





Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:47 | 372486 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Regardless of the target of it's original intent and the intellectual capacity of the author...the quote Rusty posted is for all intents and purposes  "Spot On!"

Sorry Cheeky... still love ya big guy... but if a 'junk' is what you want... then a junk is what you'll get!

Does anyone know what the record for accumulated 'junk's' are by the way?

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:51 | 372532 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ a big number.

The quote was good.  Whatever the context.

Feel the same Cheeky, love your work, but nobody's perfect.

I haven't junked anyone yet since joining ZH.  Not even Bravo.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:32 | 372795 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Come on DoChen... join the fun!

Here... I'll help you out by junking you first!

Now junk me buddy... junk me!

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 17:45 | 372975 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

OK, junked back!

Actually to be strictly truthful, I junked Shameful when he asked how to do it.  Then I un-junked him.

Yo!  I'll leave yours on, LOL.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:47 | 372457 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

Hey Cheeky, go fuck yourself.

It's prescient, and apt for the topic at hand, and I was directly replying to Apostate (who, given his/her avatar, would likely enjoy it, I would assume).


Since when did you become the discussion leader around here?  Should I check in with you first before participating in civil discourse to see if what I'm going to say meets up to your standards?


You've had some posts in the past few days that were just completely uncalled for.


You're becoming more and more unhinged.


There's a fine line between being "cheeky" and just a tired sadistic tyrant.


And again, fuck you, jerk.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:49 | 372523 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Fight Club, Bitches!

Clear the ring.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:05 | 372581 Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

Rusty; as I said in the comment, this was not going against you personally. Also; the quote was about the government; so I do not think it can be applied here. But; OK, lets say the quote is applicable to this and lets consider it in that way. My problem with Rand is that the very basis of her philosophy can easily be dismissed just by evoking a contra-argument by evoking solipsism. She can not refute it [or for that matter no one can; since its basically Orthodox Subjectivism, and hence, irrefutable.]. Also her mis-interpretation of Kantian epistemology led her to faulty anthropology where she offered nothing except reversing Kant to a polar negative. Technically, she offered no Logical System to support her beliefs [something you must do if you are building a metaphysical system from scratch; you need axioms and derived laws which can be analyzed by relations between denotation and symbols] and her system is, therefore, not defined; it is open, it is not finished; it is faulty. If we move past the technical side, we can easily conclude that her anthropocentric view is taken from Heidegger and his metaphysics which was directly built on Husserl and Nietzsche. So she was wrong there too. I could go on and on about why Rand is an utter failure. She is a monist in an environment in which meta-narratives are incapable of offering a solution. She is at best outdated. Next. She presupposes that reason confirms non-existence of Subjectivity. She offers not definition of Value [which is also central to her theories]. Kant was far from perfect in his political philosophy [his epistemology continues to this day as a referential point of many subsequent schools and logical systems], but Rands solution is nothing else than wrong interpretation of Kants epistemology and metaphysics. In short; she is wrong.

Also, I dont know why you took my comment as if it was pointed towards you, when I clearly said it was not. 

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:08 | 372595 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Every time someone calls you on your bullshit you dissemble with jargon.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:18 | 372621 Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

ITG; not my fault if you can not understand it. She considered her writings to be philosophy; I am, therefore, attacking her from a philosophical point of view. Usually that is how it is done. I am sorry if it is not dumbed down enough for you. Nothing I can do about that. As for you above response; I consider Keynes to be equal to Rand in his contributions to society; and I do blame what he wrote and how those writings were used to create a system which is catastrophic. Keynes was the same snake oil salesman as was Rand. And Rand Paul is far from being right; not even close. I know that he offers novel approach to old problems; but novelty does not equal usefulness. As for going for my jugular just by not agreeing with something that is utterly idiotic [ie; most of Rands writings]; that is just absurd. I do not know why everyone is taking it personally whenever I say something negative about Rand, or something that is not appealing to the majority here. If you want an echo chamber; you can have it; but do not bitch and moan when the accepted line of thought gets us into the same set of problems. It will happen; disagreement is your friend, skepticism also. Use them.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:53 | 372678 Whizbang
Whizbang's picture

I have read Rand, and one issue I take with her work is that the very government she opposes as a leech and a hindrance to the free flow of private capital in the economy with regulation is the same monster that provides the framework for consolidation of economic power and influence, another result of her core philosophy, as evidenced in the early 20th century, when monopolistic robber barons controlled the entire world. This has contributed far more directly to our current problems then the direct expansion of government. Some might argue that the corporate-government protection racket has been more damaging to capitalism than strict government regulation. 

Essentially, Rand's work taken to it's logical extent either results in a fascism, where a strong federal government provides special treatment to several monopolistic enterprises who control the private sector, or where one major source of capital dominates a weak government (i.e. JPM c.1914), and hence it's people. I would argue that protection offered through copyright protection, intellectual property law, and pro-competition laws have led to a freer open market structure than would exist in Rands world.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:00 | 372720 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Not impressed with my intellect eh? Well, stupid is as stupid does, they say. And I am not here to impress; I will leave it to other smug self-appointed blog arbiters of absolute right and wrong to do that.

But I will still call bullshit.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 21:51 | 373403 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

Exactly, this BS is what many scientists do when they don't actually understand a phenomena or why they are studying it.  They use a bunch of jargon to obfuscate.  Rand's philosphy is simple-the individual and his/her creativity is the engine which drives all production/work.   Her economics is simply that of Hayek-that state control requires "experts" who decide for you how you should live your life (e.g. the FED).  But, why should be trust these "experts" with our individual lives?

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:20 | 372627 hound dog vigilante
hound dog vigilante's picture

Wrong according to you.  After citing Kant/Nietzsche/Heidegger you have the nerve to make absolute Right/Wrong judgements per Ayn Rand, a novelist... you hypocrite.

Get over yourself, asshole.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:38 | 372696 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

He may be an asshole hound dog... but he's our asshole and I truly love him... in a non-gay kinda way that is...

Problem is that Cheeky reads too much... knows too much... thinks too much.... and honestly here guys? CARES TOO MUCH!

There is very little of what Cheeky says (that I am capable of understanding) that I disagree with. His anger was certainly directed at what he felt was one of the idiots (Rand) whose writings got us into this gigantic clusterfuck that is set to bring the planet down to a level where even space aliens will refuse to visit it.

Anyway... why bother being disagreeable when in all reality... if you just step back a bit... WE ALL AGREE!

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:06 | 372744 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I don't agree with your venom, but I do agree with your reasoning. None of these theorists makes the claim that there is no truth or nothing exists. The claim is that we can't know absolute truth because of the nature of the apparatus we perceive reality through, senses filtered through language and culture. We must then turn to something else to guide us through the overt dishonesty we see around us, and the covert language and culture traps that we take as "given." 

This is a common debate that turns up in a theory course, start by asking a class if you need to know Foucault was gay in order to fully understand his work. Most students decide no. Then ask about his participation in the S&M community. More students feel that is relevant to know. Then tell them the rumors about him being a pederast. What if those are true, do we throw out his theory? Thing is, Foucault is a wonderful mind fuck that everyone can benefit from. And I hate pederasts with a special vengeance.

Good times for all.

Rand. Not all or nothing.

The whole game is about learning to stand with instability. I think this is my life's mantra. Maybe all of us.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 19:46 | 373226 spekulatn
spekulatn's picture

"The whole game is about learning to stand with instability."


Well put, MsCreant.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 21:15 | 373349 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Thanks. I hope you are well. Is it possible there is a new little puppy/fart in your life?

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:14 | 372611 Hansel
Hansel's picture

I got your back Rusty.

Sat, 05/29/2010 - 21:52 | 381709 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

Thanks dude.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:20 | 372625 Whizbang
Whizbang's picture

No belts, no ties, no rings.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:33 | 372477 Canaduh
Canaduh's picture

Not to mention her inspiration was a psychopathic killer who dismembered a little girls body.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:34 | 372478 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

Multi-tier legal system? Maybe I'm just not remembering something from all the books of hers that I read, but I don't think she advocated that, nor did she advocate economic anarchy. She wasn't a saint, but don't mischaracterize her work.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:36 | 372481 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Cheeky Bastard

The Fountainhead was a good read.

I always see Kesey's Sometimes a Great Notion being similar to Rand in many ways.

And it ain't like anyone plans to quote Bakunin or Emma Goldman here.


No great idea in its beginning can ever be within the law. How can it be within the law? The law is stationary. The law is fixed. The law is a chariot wheel which binds us all regardless of conditions or place or time.
Emma Goldman

“The liberty of man consists solely in this: that he obeys natural laws because he has himself recognized them as such, and not because they have been externally imposed upon him by any extrinsic will whatever, divine or human, collective or individua”

Mikhail Bakunin

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:42 | 372499 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

Although I don't agree with everything she said, I do with quite a bit - like the quote Rusty just posted. There is a lot of truth in what she wrote. Nobody's perfect you know. I'd prefer her theories any day over, say Ben Bernanke's.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:32 | 372600 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Right GG and just because a philosphy as a whole may not be perfect doesn't mean there are parts that can't be useful and constructive.

The idea, Cheeky, that there are people presently, who are not professionals, experts, experienced industrialists or entrepreneurs, in government is not far fetched at all.  A lawyer does not necessarily know anything about economics or finance and these congress people do trade in favors and that is apparent to most.  Why is it that health care professionals don't have more impact in health care decisions?  A government bureaucracy is better?  Why is it that the people who brought the economy to the state it is in are still running the show?  Where are the people that could predict the current outcomes and why aren't they allowed to participate in the debate and make decisions?

And also very Randian is the passing of the buck, the "Wasn't me it was the last guy" or "the banks are the problem" or "the insurance industry is" or "drugs are the problem" is too common.

It is the combination of these frighteningly parallel actions that makes Ayn Rand and her writing relevant and pertinent and while it may not be exact it makes it easy to relate to.

I wouldn't want to dismiss Animal Farm because it is about Animals...

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:22 | 372781 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Depends. Some thinkers do try to build a whole system of thinking. Therefore you cannot assess the whole without considering every bit.

Reminds me of many examples. One funny.

Long short story. A guy worked all his week end to advance the demonstration of a theorem. The result suited the requirements. Worked perfectly. Save that at around the start, he coined in without noticing that 2+2=5. Incredible mistake at this level. Spoilt all the rest.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 17:57 | 373016 Absinthe Minded
Absinthe Minded's picture

+1 I can understand CB's frustration with the logic or illogic of Rand's theories. People are getting too thin skinned around here, this is fight club for Chrissakes! he was just giving his 2 cents on Rand not Rusty so get the fuck over it! Can't we all just get along, another prophetic quote from piece of shit! Junk me if necessary.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:52 | 372535 Apostate
Apostate's picture

When I was younger, I noted that all the "responsible" libertarians all reflexively attacked Ayn Rand. Republicans might whisper about Atlas Shrugged in a positive light - always followed by a swift condemnation.

So, I avoided delving into her work for many years. I heard that Fountainhead glorified rape. All the cool literary kids I hung out with insulted her prose. Reason magazine snorted at her - except during brief periods when they needed to raise money.

It's convenient to ignore her influence, if only because mysticism is still so popular in the US.

For example, Richard Dawkins' work on atheism and ethics can be mostly read as a pre-chewed reinterpretation of her philosophy - with some perfunctory obeisance given to the socialist state in the UK.

The more I've read and studied, however, it becomes clear that she was one of the most brilliant intellectuals of the 20th century.

I disagree with Rand on ethics, but she was correct in most other respects (especially in economics).

It's my strong belief that she was condemned for many petty personal reasons - not the least of which was her affair with Nathaniel Branden, which in retrospect was a grievous mistake.

As far as I can tell, Rothbard ripped into her because his wife was Christian, and couldn't accept her philosophical consistency. Why the traditional conservative crowd tosses her into a box needs no explanation.

The current "Objectivist" institutions do her work few favors. Leonard Peikoff is kinda crazy. Their behavior during the run-up to the Iraq war was disgraceful. Many defenses of corporatism performed under "Objectivist" auspices directly contradict many of her own stark criticisms of the system.

Ayn Rand is considered beyond the pale because it's convenient to do so. If the Reason foundation or the Cato Institute treated her with respect, they wouldn't be able to raise so much money from lawyers seeking an easy payday through lawsuits and negotiating "public-private partnerships." It'd be much tougher for them to raise millions of dollars from religious groups.

I'm glad that the personalities that have so riven the libertarian movement with petty disputes are dying out. I don't think we should let petty personal disputes get in the way of discussing ideas.

I've met old men that are still pissed off that Branden attracted all the pretty girls, or whatever. 

You know damn well that there are plenty of assholes out there grabbing the "lever that moves the world" - philosophy - and attempting to shift the beliefs of the populace to their own ends.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:59 | 372721 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

+1 Interesting

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:25 | 372784 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

+1 = 2

I initially came at a wrong angle to Apostasy's writings because of his Obama impeachment prediction.


Now I keep my mouth shut and enjoy. Thanks, Apostasy.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 17:26 | 372934 Apostate
Apostate's picture

That prediction was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but considering what many local politicians are planning, it's entirely possible.

The democratic party maintains its power through the government unions and academia.

Academia and those same unions are going to be under extreme pressure going forward. Many public schools are already being liquidated.

The republicans already lost their base during the fallout of the Bush years.

The entire political system is unraveling, so everything is possible.

Does that make a bit more sense? Democrats can be elected again and again in states like New York and California precisely because the government keeps a large portion of the population in permanent employment. Once you take away those jobs, the political party dies soon afterwards.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 20:06 | 373254 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

And it seems like BP is calling the shots instead of the frequently vacationing Executive branch. Occam's Razor: intentional misfortune? What is the gov't planning? Very odd. Very odd indeed.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:56 | 372547 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture


I'm siding with Rusty.  I am very very tired of the well-worn but sad tactic of debating a point by defaming the author of it, while totally avoiding the content of the point.  The quote Rusty posted is absolutely on point, and completely applicable to our current situation.  Rusty said nothing about agreeing with every single word Rand ever wrote, in spite of your incredible overreaction to it.

I won't bother junking you.

Sat, 05/29/2010 - 21:54 | 381715 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

Thanks SWR.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:57 | 372554 pong
pong's picture

Amusing that The Maestro was friends with Rand (mentioned in "The Age of Tubulance").

Cheeky, love the comments.  Been reading here over a year; posting rarely.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:51 | 372705 Apostate
Apostate's picture

A lot of the people in the movement were weirdoes.

Greenspan wanted the adulation, attention, and fame that goes with taking a high post in the government.

Look at his reputation now. Take a good look...

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:24 | 372672 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

CB is worth a hundred of any of those who junked him on this. No wait, a thousand.

"I'm all right so fuck all the rest." isn't much of a philosophy, in my humble opinion.


 "Foreseeing some dismal Marxian Utopia as the alternative, the educated man prefers to keep things as they are. Possibly he does not like his fellow rich very much, but he supposes that even the vulgarest of them are less inimical to his pleasures, more his kind of people, than the poor, and that he had better stand by them. It is this fear of a supposedly dangerous mob that makes nearly all intelligent people conservative in their opinions." - Eric Blair

Anyone who can't see that the above quote neatly summarizes the problem needs to take a look around. Like Tommy Douglas did during his visit to Germany in 1935.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 21:04 | 373333 robobbob
robobbob's picture

So, was it before or after:

"The Problems of the Subnormal Family" endorsed eugenics.[11] [12] The thesis proposed a system that would have required couples seeking to marry to be certified as mentally and morally fit. Those deemed to be "subnormal" because of low intelligence, moral laxity or venereal disease would be sent to state farms or camps while those judged to be mentally defective or incurably diseased would be sterilized.[13]

 there sure seems to be alot of camps, re-edumacatin, sterilizn, abortn and what not  involved on that thar road to Utopia. you know, just asking.

Wed, 05/26/2010 - 00:44 | 373610 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Once again, after his visit to 1935 Germany, Mr. Douglas 'woke up'. He probably spent the rest of his life regretting that thesis and the harm rained down on innocents based on its precepts. He certainly spent his political career refuting them, which was my point.

For the record: Saskatchewan (Tommy's Province of Premiership) never adopted any eugenics policies. The Province of Alberta, however, had those practices still in place up 'til the 60's I think, outpacing even Germany's 'program'... telling though isn't it, just how long that Alberta has had a Conservative Gov't? You might want to do a search on just how many US states got involved with eugenics as well, while you're at it.

A better way to look at Mr.Douglas' legacy might be 'to spend your time left correcting your mistakes', or:

"Courage my friend, it is not too late to make the world a better place." -Tommy Douglas



Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:38 | 372684 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Ayn Rand = Greenspan's hero & mentor


Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:44 | 372840 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

I won't junk you, precisely because you demanded it. Nobody tells me what to do, or who's K00l-Aid to drink...or not


Tue, 05/25/2010 - 17:40 | 372959 Gwynplaine (not verified)
Gwynplaine's picture

You said that Ayn Rand was a joke.  You mention that she was a "failure of the highest magnitude".  How so?  What was the last book you wrote that was on the bestseller list?   Atlas Shrugged sold something like a million copies last year - and it was written 50 years ago.

And what the heck is a "multi-tier legal system"?  I have never heard that exact term before.  Do you mean that she proposed a feudal legal system with exemptions for the nobility?  We're headed towards totalitarianism because of Ayn Rand?  C'mon, that's pure junk and you know it.

I've been an Objectivist for the past 15 years, and I have never met anyone as hostile as you CB.  Go troll somewhere else.

Wed, 05/26/2010 - 00:13 | 373630 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

"Atlas Shrugged sold something like a million copies last year - and it was written 50 years ago"

"If a million people do a silly thing, its still a silly thing." - Berkeley Breathed

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:12 | 372415 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

All part of the game.


New wars popping up right before mid-term elections.


Take away close: Who do you want to govern during times of WAR/TERROR/FINANCIAL CRISIS ?????????  Your incumbents with experience!





Wed, 05/26/2010 - 01:21 | 373719 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Privacy on facebook is important to senators.  That's where they go cruisin' for thirteen year old boys.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:56 | 372553 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

The Rogue Trader

Obama and Hello Kitty flag. Rall nailed it quite a while ago.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:45 | 372320 Apostate
Apostate's picture

Like the NSA's policies, this will just result in more data in government computers that the state will be unable to act on.

Keep fueling the expatriation industry, idiots!

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:47 | 372326 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

 Geez, Why not just have the IRS take over VISA and Mastercard?

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:06 | 372392 crzyhun
crzyhun's picture

Have you read "for eyes only" memo??

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:11 | 372410 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Which one?

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:47 | 372327 John McCloy
John McCloy's picture

  What is going on in this land mass formally known as The United States?

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:48 | 372330 Crook County
Crook County's picture

Under the spreading chestnut tree
I sold you and you sold me.
There lie they, and here lie we
Under the spreading chestnut tree.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:03 | 372379 Citizen of an I...
Citizen of an IKEA World's picture

Report to Room 101, comrade.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:48 | 372331 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

That's nothing.  According to the newly passed "Health Care Bill" every "business" purchase over $600 has to have a 1099 generated for it.



Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:51 | 372341 Apostate
Apostate's picture

Yeah, time to pack shit up and go overseas.

Sure, I'm sure that someone will put together an application to automate all that stuff for you, but it's the ridiculous principle of it all.

Wed, 05/26/2010 - 00:56 | 373661 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Where to Apostate? Germany? Oh, wait PREMIUM universal health care coverage there. No good, according to you. Norway? Nope, too prime of an example of a well functioning socialist state (and decent UHC too). Finland... crap, same. Sweden, same. Netherlands, same... geez, do all the countries in the world with a higher standard of living than the US have UHC? Let's see... yep.

MB somewhere like Equatorial Guinea would be to your liking? Not much paper work to run a bidness there and little official taxation; though I'd highly recommend that you keep a close eye on your kids.



Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:54 | 372349 fiddler_on_the_roof
fiddler_on_the_roof's picture

Good Point. They want to maximize their taxation as well as keep Business owners engulfed in paper work. Once enacted, there is a good chance everyone will become a criminal due to excessive paper work.

The best way to hide wealth is Gold, you can also buy Gold outside the country and store it

to hide wealth.


Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:58 | 372558 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Look what they are doing to our country.  When the smart ones start thinking about getting out.  With gold.

On the other hand, a good argument can be made that we did this to ourselves, we voted the 'stards in all these years.  I hear SO LITTLE talk about cutting .gov spending.

Things are getting worse every day.  And accelerating.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:53 | 372710 Apostate
Apostate's picture

It's not just gold. Artwork works pretty well too. You can (legally) buy artwork and simultaneously secure a contract for the sale overseas to safely transfer funds from one country to another.

Artwork is also lighter than gold.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:14 | 372420 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

$600 1099 threshhold has been around for decades.

Be glad they don't lower it to $0.10

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:37 | 372484 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

I don't think it has applied to purchases until now, only wages.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:39 | 372490 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

God, I regret using that picture now that I see your avatar all the time. :>)

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:57 | 372555 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Yeah, and then you egged him on. The law of unintended consequences is in play ... reap the whirlwind.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:30 | 372790 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

I'm really glad you did! F'ing hilarious. The same kind of face when the Devil actually shows up to say it's time to settle the deal.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 17:04 | 372911 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Me too. Constantly reminds me of the yipster staring at the price of Au!

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 17:59 | 373023 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

LOL Hulk.  Have not seen much of him or BravoBater lately.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 18:07 | 373046 Crime of the Century
Crime of the Century's picture


Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:47 | 372515 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Many entities 1099 every payment over $600 just to eliminate any "agent subjectivity" in the event they are looked at by the IRS.

The rules (up until now) have been puposely vague to allow the examining agent to "come away with something" in the event an audit turns up nothing in the way of additional taxes due.

Know your enemy well so you will anticipate his tactics in advance.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:49 | 372702 PeterSchump
PeterSchump's picture

Wages only, correct.  Buy your gold in cash now before its too late.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 22:06 | 373430 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

Hi Rusty,  Great Rand Quote BTW.  Did you know that in Denmark the government keeps track of every debit and credit made to all bank accounts and taxes all credits/gifts as income unless you can prove otherwise?  They also open all packages/gifts coming into the country and tax the recipient at the highest value they can find listed.  So, the state precedent of monitoring of all financial transactions is well established.

As they say, a government powerful enough to give you everything you want can take away every freedom you really need to truly live.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:49 | 372334 Kataphraktos
Kataphraktos's picture

these can be made publicly available upon request

Upon whose request? Mine? Or that of any number of corporate monopolies that gang rape me on a daily basis?

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:51 | 372336 emsolý
emsolý's picture

It's 1984 indeed and almost feels like we're not in Kansas anymore either.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:52 | 372343 economessed
economessed's picture

Can this "oversight" be used to identify illegal aliens?  Wouldn't that be a kicker for the republicans!

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:54 | 372350 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

There are three definitions of paranoia: delusions of grandeur, delusions of persecution, and retrospective falsification.

                                       Richard Condon, author of the

                                       Manchurian Candidate


Looks like team Obama hit the trifecta.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:17 | 372618 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Somehow he missed "delusions of adequacy"

That one has caused at least as much strife as delusions of grandeur, if not more.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:54 | 372351 ufamizm
ufamizm's picture

Just another step along the road.

Patriot Act, Military Commisions Act, suspension of habeus corpus, warrantless search and siezure, warrantless wiretaps, exceptional rendition...and the window on the expat option is closing rapidly...if you want to leave with any assets anyway.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:49 | 372862 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Bro, your not leaving with assets...............

Best get your ASSets moved now, physical body follows, empty handed.

Everyone here who has a wad of PM's in phys control, is stuck,unless you sell, transfer fiat, and rebuy at higher prices, your fooked.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 18:54 | 373160 Freebird
Freebird's picture

Easy. Take a vacation, open a safebox in say Panama & Fedex direct from Comex.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:54 | 372352 Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

 Most Americans when confronted with the epic evildoers in power are not planning to engage in armed insurrection.They will just cheat on their taxes and vote for whoever might help.I predict a huge move into cash transactions because of this.Also, now it is easier to see a move to a cashless society, where you have to use a card for everything...which would be ironclad control.

 Something needs to be done to rein these insane maniacs in...before it is too late.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:23 | 372447 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


Yep small acts of rebellion are the norm. Speeding, running red lights and stop signs, cgeating on taxes, not declaring income, downloading movies and music.

Yet, they don't even realize they are rebelling.


"There must be some kinda way out of here"
Said the joker to the thief
"There's too much confusion
I can't get no relief"

"Businessmen, they, they drink my wine
Plowmen dig my earth
None will level on the line
Nobody of it is worth", hey

"No reason to get excited"
The thief, he kindly spoke
"There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke"

"But you and I, we've been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now
The hour is getting late", hey


All along the watchtower
Princes kept the view
While all the women came and went
Barefoot servants too

Outside in the cold distance
A wildcat did growl
Two riders were approaching
And the wind began to howl, hey

All along the watchtower
All along the watchtower

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:05 | 372582 Apostate
Apostate's picture

I recommend The Art of War.

"For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:52 | 372709 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

It applies to everything in life really...

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:06 | 372745 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Sun Tzu was an excellent cat. Though I'm unclear on why he did not title the work "The Art of Hunting". Lost in translation, perhaps.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 16:54 | 372878 DosZap
DosZap's picture


You assume cash will be worth something?.

Maybe the NEW version...but we all know what's going down on the old.

Move it, or LOOSE it,asap, while we're at chance, you will likely get ever again.

Fools rush in, where angels fear to tread........that's what these foreigners are doing moving into Treasuries, and Bonds........

Getting out of bad, into the worst.............and have not a clue.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 17:10 | 372914 Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

 I personally feel cash has no value now, lucky for me idiots still accept it for food, gas, etc.Silver and gold is where it's at.And I am currently hoarding all the metals I can get my  hands on.Copper, aluminum, cast iron etc.Also can never have enough of those.

  You are right on about buying bonds and treasuries...worthless.Unless it is tangible, I am not interested.

 But watch the people flee to barter...whatever they use for exchange.Our black market will cube times 10.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 13:55 | 372356 kwvrad
kwvrad's picture

 Wow TPTB are really starting to get scared, they are putting

everything into OVERDRIVE.... they are VERY AFRAID folks are starting to

wake up much sooner than they planned," SMOKE

'EM IF YOU GOT 'EM ", boys n girls cause its gonna get dicey to

say the least, things are starting to spin outta control.


Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:18 | 372430 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


It isn't about people waking up. It's about controling those who will be rioting in the future.

Only a handful will act due to principle. Others will follow to vent some anger or because they can. You keep tabs on the few who may incite the many.

Like this place isn't observed?

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!