Cornyn On The White House Stasi Solicitation, Or Would McCarthy Love flag@whitehouse.gov? (Hint: Yes)
Senator Cornyn foolishly thinks McCarthyism has no place in 2009. And here we were, happy recipients of the first one million flagged complaints in less than 24 hours...
Zero Hedge makes it easy for all law and constitution abiding citizens to rat on anyone and anything they think may be fishy by clicking here and notifying your favorite White House 1984 inspector. And please, 89.2% $50MM+ trading days in a quarter does not qualify as "fishy", merely statistically impossible.
h/t Grotjan
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| cornyn.pdf | 65.14 KB |
(20 votes)
»
-
- Login or register to post comments
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 22:42
#26717
Wow... that letter was just wrong on so many levels .... so I did my AMERICAN duty and sent it to flag@whitehouse.gov.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 22:47
#26721
Your attitude is fishy. I am too busy right now. Can someone else report you to flag@whorehouse.gov?
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:11
#26759
I'll do it.
It's been a long time since I...flag@whorehouse.gov
I didn't open it.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:31
#26789
It was a harmless pun. There is no email domain whorehouse.gov. No private citizen or meany can register it.
Cheeze, you folks are paranoid. Course with such stupidity on the part of this administration, raving, foaming, paranoia is the new normal. There is a surplus of reasons to be paranoid.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:52
#26805
Hahaha...you've got me Printfaster
What was I thinking?
Oh yeah! I was paranoid.
Is there any truth to that?
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 08:48
#27136
...just because you are paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't watching you....
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 10:54
#27323
Noted.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 06:34
#27021
It's only paranoia if it ends up not being true. Appears more and more true with each passing day.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 08:28
#27119
Whorehouse.gov is Newspeak. For you Proles, think " congress.gov "
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:07
#26753
CLICK THE ADS, SUPPORT THE SERVERS...
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:12
#26761
TD?
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:17
#26764
good reminder...i clicked 2x
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:24
#26781
We have to stay alert.
-Joe Welcome-
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 10:25
#27277
A lawyer points out some the of legal implications of the "fishy" policy of the BHO Admin.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/08/024209.php
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 22:45
#26720
If it were Clinton, I would be concerned he was looking to contact fishwives for a date.
With this president, him looking for fishy, is more like looking for seared ahi with a side of arugula.
Seriously, this administration is the administration that cannot shoot straight. Even if it is fish in a barrel.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 22:48
#26723
"You are now entering the twilight zone.
The year is 1951..."
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 22:52
#26726
This is not even funny enough for SNL, I don't know if you can create a massive lawsuit on this, but it's outrageous! That's exactly what Warren said about the govt having society spy on each other. They think they've seen heated townhalls....just wait
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:03
#26740
This is all about the TownHall reactions so far. They can't fathom how so many simpletons have so much information on this, and why it doesn't match their Official Talking Points As Dictated By The Director. It must be coordinated by someone, and they must find out who.
Give Pelosi some credit - she left the flipside of the laminated colored index cards given to each Congressmen blank for a good reason, so that they could have room to fill in new and/or updated Official Talking Points As Dictated By The Director.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 22:55
#26730
Cornyn, is my senator. He and all the faux conservatives are an embarrassment as if they care about the constitution. Almost everything they do is unconstitutional and now he is worried about privacy and freedom of speech.
Scumbags all of them are scumbags except Kucinich, Sanders and Paul. They are all consistent and I disagree with all of them but respect them as they are not bought.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:26
#26784
With you.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 05:07
#26997
Cornyn's my Senator as well and I agree with the faux conservative comment, BUT I actually read the letter and it's pretty good. AND, he is the only Senator who has bothered to call the BHO administration on this. I'd recommend doing what I do. Print and distribute it. People are generally ignorant of this crap. Let them see what their idiot president really is. Don't even think about reporting this comment to flag@crackhouse.gov. I use an IP mask. I am not who you think I am. Hell, I'm not even who I think I am.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 06:28
#27020
The problem with the letter is he talks about "tradition" of free speech, and does not assume limitation of presidential power. Oman exceeds the limits of constitutional authority with impunity.
Cornyn is all about extension of executive authority, though. This is how they getcha, like "either cap'n trade, or carbon tax" false dichotomy. or, single payer v. the big ins., how about no authority to nationalize health care.
They end by compromising all the way to hell. He doesn't realize he also is trashing the Constitution with his negative assumptions.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 09:56
#27225
I wish some of the more paranoid users of zerohedge take your comment very seriously.
This is one of the things that hasn't changed from Bush to Obama. Bush's administration actively pursued policies and practices consistent with the notion that the executive branch has infinite powers. Obama's administration just picked up where Bush left off.
Of course, getting congress to deny the Executive branch infinite authority is the other side of the problem.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 22:56
#26732
Exactly why we can never lose the second amendment; the right to keep and bear arms.
As Twain said, history rhymes. What rhymes with 1776. Never say never.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 05:21
#27004
Economic fix rhymes with 1776.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 08:28
#27120
Komrade Pelosi fully intends to maintain your right to keep sleeveless t-shirts, indeed.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 22:57
#26733
Wow
Wow
Wow
I can just imagine Krugman's op-ed the next morning if Bush had done this.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:09
#26734
I just sent myself in to flag@whitehouse.gov for a brand new "fishy" rumor about his health care plan that I decided to start after reading about this new WTF speech monitoring plan...
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:11
#26757
Awesome thanks MinnesotaNice! This fishy s@#$ is terrifying: let's turn those in charge of the flag@whitehouse into homeland security for terrorizing the US citizens with this clear as daylight intimidation!
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:00
#26737
This isn't even funny ... i would recommend to the readers of this blog to talk to someone who lived in Germany during Hitler ... it started with shit like this ( and with the shit Bush has done ) and no one thought it was worth mentioning, but then it grew exponentially and finally you didn't know will your neighbour turn some made up bullshit on you to the SS or not ... it was paralyzing fear ... DO NOT THINK IT CANT HAPPEN AGAIN JUST BECAUSE THIS IS THE YEAR 2009 ... the same line of thinking was prevalent back then ..
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:04
#26741
You're right, this isn't funny at all. This is serious business. I turned myself in by emailing the White House, directing them to my blog where I write "fishy" things about the health care bill. I encourage all Americans to send the Declaration of Independence to flag@whitehouse.com
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:13
#26762
DONE
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:25
#26782
Remember this is not the bush/cheyney group anymore, we're dealing with chicago style gangstas now. I'll report myself tomorrow after I have a say on my blog about this one.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 02:09
#26949
The Chicago Way...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g0RLyxP13o
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 02:09
#26951
The Chicago Way...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g0RLyxP13o
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 11:45
#27414
Don't yo mean the south side of Chicago way?
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/jim+croce/bad+bad+leroy+brown_20071475.html
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 10:03
#27236
Remember this is not the bush/cheyney group anymore,
I disagree. It's the same. Different party, slightly different tactics. Obama is operating under the same notion, infinite executive power.
I voted the Obama ticket but didn't have much hope for change.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 08:26
#27116
is it wrong to also rickroll them?
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:07
#26750
http://capitalistpreservation.com/cms/blog/gloves-are
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:09
#26754
I agree... the government has grossly overstepped it boundaries... I always wondered what it must feel like to stand-up to the government in countries where you could lose your life or liberty for speaking out against the government... I'm getting a glimmer of what that must be like. But, just the same Cheeky Bastard I think I am going to have to report you to flag@whitehouse.gov because I really don't think you are supporter of the health care plan and have a high risk of spreading disinformation :-)
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:28
#26858
no need i have already reported myself about 50 times in the last 10 min, and did so just because i had sinister thoughts about the health care plan ,,,
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:19
#26771
this move from murdoch to charge for news sites is scary as well. that is an attempt to shut/slow down the bloggers (can't cite for free if you have to pay). we'll have to turn back to TV for information, which we know is a terrible place for anything resembling truth.
/sigh
rr
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:44
#26873
They Thought They Were Free :
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html
About post WW2 Germans explaining how they thought they were free.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:49
#26875
my grandad was in the SS ( no im not proud of it ) but when he was talking about that period he said it was either that or a long vacation in some concentration camp. they used propaganda techniques to indoctrinate them, they used fear of their friends turning them in for grand treason etc. and yes they thought they were free ..
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:00
#26885
"They thought they were free"... I will have to give that some long thought over the weekend...
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 05:39
#27010
Aha. And your second hand experience of fascism in Europe tells you that of all the U.S. administrations you have seen at large with the second amendment, it is Barack Obama's that poses the real threat to free speech. Give me a brake. Who was it again that imposed all those wonderful home security laws flagrantly spitting in the face of amendment 2 and the constitution? What were you doing then? Sending letters to Dick Cheney?
I am not saying that this federal solicitation of "fish" is meaningful or lawful. But likening the Obama administration to Nazi-Germany or McCarthyism is just as stupid. If you oppose Obama health care plans, say it. Better yet, make an alternative suggestion of how this immense social problem that couldn't be successfully addressed for decades now can be solved in a responsible fashion. But please folks: Don't spam this unique blog with intellectual garbage.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 06:45
#27032
actually, quite a few of the elements in the PATRIOT Act were legislatively attempted during the second Clinton Administration. it just couldn't pass Congress. blaming Bush/Cheney for it (and believe me, I'm not a B/C fan), is refusing to acknowledge the deeper problem. to use a medical metaphor, it is attempting to treat the symptom, rather than attempting to treat the cause.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 07:39
#27077
Also not a fan of B/C. Would point out that it was Clinton who instituted Extraordinary Rendition as well.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 10:17
#27263
I'm no fan of anyone and wasn't blaming B/C for this. I just find the sudden love for civil rights among the financially/politically literate quite astonishing. No such thing was heard from those ranks before a black president with an impeccable record of understanding and supporting these rights has gotten serious on healthcare (and some nitwits in his administration smelled "fish" in the discussion). However: No matter how stupid this fish-initiative is: Likening it to fascist/nazi/socialist-type totalitarianism is not only historical bullshit, it is also just hopping the moronic agenda of those who have opposed any form of healthcare politics for decades.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 10:31
#27289
so, some suppression of free speech is ok, as long as it is by fellow citizens at the urging of the Executive branch of the government? i just want to make sure i understand your point.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 10:45
#27309
Your specious attempt to rim a fundament , yada yada, compartmentalize this , comrade. Obama does not matter as an individual, and freedom is antithetical to the bee hive he represents, and no not as a queen.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 10:06
#27242
sociologically,America is a hermetic society, and has not experienced a threat similar to Europe in all of its 233 yrs of being a Republic. You have never had an internal threat imposed by your own government, and that gives you zero credibility in identifying anti-democratic trends. Again, time is static, and also is human nature, and nothing change significantly in either individual or systemic behaviour. Power yields more power, and that power yields even more power. Until the power becomes universal and all democratic tendencies cease to be implemented. This flag thing is a neo-totalitarian method to impose systemic fear and re-enforece the power of a centralized government and suppress the freedom to express your opinion and to oppose the governmental measures, so that you don't speak against the establishment because you don't know who will report you, and what will their reasons be. Again, the same pattern is recognizable in every centralized society when it went into transition to a totalitarian one. So you have no right to call my observation a intellectual garbage just because you read something about totalitarian regimes in some books, or took some courses in history while you were in college. i have lived trough one of those totalitarian societies and participated in bringing another one down. And i talk from experience, not from speculative prepositions which are drawn from some history book. Again, talk to the Holocaust survivors and ask them if the see any resemblance to Germany. Go ahead ask them what they think about all the measures Bush enacted and which go against the US constitution, plus all the measures that went under the public radar. Try to research idiomatic similarities between Germany and present day US. Just because you THINK it cant happen here, doesn't mean that it cant happen here. History is cyclical, and i really hope you will not have to experience that.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 10:32
#27284
I'd love to respond in more detail and agree with most of what you say, but I gotta run and cook some food for the family. The only thing I am trying to say is this: Look at the context of this Stasi/Nazi/McCarthy-discussion going here. The agenda is and has always been to discredit a dearly needed healthcare discussion by discrediting an administration and its political supporters. True, this fish-initiative is absolutely moronic and very likely unconstitutional. But really, let's give ourselves a brake: The personal and political differences between the likes of Mussolini, Hitler, McCarthy, Stalin, Honnecker (sp?) and Barack Obama could not be greater. The economic and technological differences to these times ditto. (Sorry, gotto run, BTW I am not a U.S Citizen and do not live in the states.)
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 12:29
#27510
"The personal and political differences between the likes of Mussolini, Hitler, McCarthy, Stalin, Honnecker (sp?) and Barack Obama could not be greater."
I'll agree with you on the personal differences front, but challenge you to detail the significant political philosophical differences between BHO, fascist Italy, and Nazi Germany (and don't fall back on the Jew-hate thing, that was a sociological phenomenon used as a political lever).
An objective review will show that "progressives" are pretty much cut from the same mold as far as their political philosophy goes, whether they be from Treaty of Versailles-era Europe/Russia or the good ol' US of A.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 12:55
#27555
+5
on Fri, 08/07/2009 - 01:57
#28847
"... but challenge you to detail the significant political philosophical differences between BHO, fascist Italy, and Nazi Germany".
I am sure that your conviction that this is all pretty much the same and your unawareness of differences must be a challenge to your hairdresser. Sorry dude, I am quite unchallenged. But yes, in the long run, entropy will take its toll on you and me the same.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 10:33
#27292
+1 cheeky.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 05:36
#27011
Cheeky - you might want to read Peikoff's book The Ominous Parallels by Leonard Peikoff. He outlines how the Nazi statist regime turned a free people against itself, within it's own mind by using the same kinds of congnitively dissident psychology and philosophy we are witnessing today. It is shocking for me to watch so many professionals (lawyers, doctors, business people) fall into this trap. It seems only the engineers and quants I know are immune.
http://www.amazon.com/Ominous-Parallels-Brilliant-parallels-pre-Hitler/d...
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 09:30
#27195
I've said for years - the best slave is the slave who thinks he's free.
I've also said : debt is the modern form of slavery. Wage slaves, debt slaves - what percentage of the western world is in this state of perpetual slavery?
Ever wonder why the banks don't point out that paying your mortgage on a weekly basis (instead of one big monthly payment) can reduce your mortgage payments without increasing the length of the mortgage and/or save the borrower (often) hundreds of thousands of dollars in interest payments?
Ever wonder why the government hasn't even mentioned this simple idea? Or forced the banks to take action on it - especially for prime borrowers? A long-term and short-term stimulus of epic proportions. Oops - the banks loose some profits. No go.
Thanks, ZH, for providing a place where the current rip-off can be monitored in real time.
Send them a flag - a picture of Abraham Lincoln and a picture of the American flag?
This flag stuff will probably do more international damage to the credibility of the US dollar than all the debt so far. Just my opinion.
peaceful thoughts from
Namke von Federlein
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 06:40
#27029
couldn't agree more cheeky. once the infringement of certain inalienable rights is allowed by the citizenry (which has already happened multiple times in US), we're not even talking about a slippery slope any longer. we have moved FAR beyond the slippery slope.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 11:14
#27358
Very few people know many facts about the Gestapo( GeheimStaatsPolizei) they just have a vague fear inpsired by two generations of TV conditioning.
1. Most Personnel were women file clerks who compiled and maintained the vast database of information, not the black trench coat clad agents shown an der Tele.
2. That information was derived from an immense network of local informants who were not part of the "G" per se.
3. This entire model was derived from the soviet system as it was quite successful in discovering and destroying opponents even if the collateral damage to legitimate target ratio was >> 1.
4. The head of the G, Heinrich Muller, was never caught. It is believed that he escaped to the Soviet Union by way of his "professional contacts" in the soviet secret police. Much like quitting JPM for a better job at GS.
5. When the G was founded a core segment of the original members came from the IG Farben industrial espionage unit.
6. There were a number of "POs" but the Gestapo( thanks to an anonymous German mail clerk) got all the notoriety.
Source: "Gestapo, Instrument of Tyranny"
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:03
#26739
Here is one of the most Fishy things I've seen yet ---> http://www.mortie.net/journal/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/abe-vigoda.jpg
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:18
#26909
Rahm once mailed Abe Vigoda to a political enemy.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:05
#26743
I for one am reporting from different email addresses as many youtube videos like these I can find.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoPyQYUE4iA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KANI2dpXLw
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:06
#26745
In other news a judge denied the BofA / SEC settlement... lol, awesome.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:10
#26756
i read the article on wsj online earlier tonight....the judge's comments were interesting. this has the potential to get better. it's nice to see that certain judges respect that whole "checks and balances" thingee and won't just sign off on executive dep't consent decrees.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:07
#26748
McCarthygizm you said? Jenny McCarthy is so smokin.
Don't you hate it when your president makes Alex Jones look like a prophet?
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:46
#26796
lol ... but i really wouldnt like to see a video titled " Alex Jones was right " filled with FEMA concentration camp footage, being streamed on some underground video service ...
i know i know, i will report myself
flag@whitehouse.gov
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:07
#26752
that inbox will soon have more emails than shares traded by HFTs in a month.
p.s. rahm you phucker, your fingerprints are all over this one.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:47
#26798
lol about the HFT stuff
and yeah Rahm, you zionist prick, FUCK YOU
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 03:13
#26974
agreed.. YELLING REALLY REALLY LOUDLY. GO FUK YOURSELF RAHM ROD!
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:08
#26755
holy fa-jesus. it's one thing to think there MIGHT be a crass dictator wannabe in the white house, but it's quite another to discover it's not just a conspiracy theory. I felt similar, yet not as strongly with bush... this is way more of a red flag, (wow -- none of those puns are intended, but now, if the shoe fits...)
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:12
#26760
I'm afraid that we might soon be longing for the days of the bumbling Bush presidency again...
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:18
#26765
Oh who gives a damn? Start writing about the deflationary downward spiral in America. At least they're facing up to it in Japan. Here, no.
TOKYO, Aug 6 (Reuters) - The Bank of Japan will probably forecast three years of deflation extending to March 2012 as weak domestic demand is seen capping economic growth, sources with direct knowledge of the matter said, which could delay its exit from its current low interest rates.
The central bank already expects Japan's core consumer price index (CPI) to fall 1.3 percent in fiscal 2009 and drop 1.0 percent in fiscal 2010 which ends in March 2011. It will issue its price forecast for the year to March 2012 on Oct. 30.
With economic growth expected to remain anemic due to weak final demand, there is a high possibility that consumer prices will remain negative in fiscal 2011 too, at least three sources said on condition of anonymity.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:21
#26774
yet, the nikkei rallies.
rr
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:49
#26801
of course it rallies, its all fucking green shoots and goddamn hopium
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:19
#26846
lol..thanks I need a good lol.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:19
#26766
In case anyone wants to cut and paste the First Ammendment into an email to flag@whitehouse.gov here it is:
First Amendment
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 05:45
#27012
Minnesota,
I agree... I am going to start sending the Obama's own press releases to this website- with an intro describing how the ideas are crap. I think it would be awesome if a lot of people did the same thing for Project Mayhem.
The Stasi did similar stuff in East German. Informants were give privilages. Maybe Obama's informants will get the ability to buy some GM cars?
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:22
#26777
stfu
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:10
#26831
stfu racking up the junk count again. ding...ding....ding...
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:30
#26788
Agree with the emphasis on Hussein to tag the post... however the corners of your mouth have to go up just a little with the thought that Saddam would have a new admiration for Obama in coming up with a plan to have dissidents reported through confidential government email... the saddest thing about this entire situation is that it was the United States government who may have been the first to come up with an email plan to report dissidents... the Beacon of Democracy... jesus I have to get a new country to live in.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:52
#26806
Agreed... this issue has nothing to do with racism and we should be respectful of everyone's name... with the exception of Ann Coulter who is clearly a different species and gender from anything I have ever seen... she is one scary ?woman?
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:07
#26824
Maybe she is one of those species that can mate with themselves and don't require the opposite sex to produce offspring...
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:09
#26829
you mean maggots
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:08
#26827
if this isnt an Adams apple i dont know what it is
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 09:58
#27229
Hussein is his fn name, you gimp.
appropriate use of the man child Tim Robbins as your avatar
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:52
#26878
Meant to say I disagree with using Hussein to tag the post...
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:40
#26794
Since when is it insensitive to refer to a President by all three of their given names?
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 05:59
#27013
I must disagree with you here A.D. regarding the use of his full name. Barry used alone might be considered disrespectful for a sitting President. By the way, we don't know what his legal name is since we haven't seen any documents. He was registered in elementary school and at Occidental college as Barry Soetoro (his mom married a guy with that last name - assuming he adopted him and Barrack took his last name). After his mom divorced, he changed his name back and apparently felt the middle name was important to use (not sure if legally changed or not). The name really is not important, I think attempts to downplay it seem odd. People should be proud of their name, history, heritage, etc.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 06:37
#27026
Agreed, more than appropriate with him.
-Manchurian Candidates do people!-
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 07:26
#27061
heck is that his true name? was he even born in the united states?
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:06
#26893
you are way too "pc", that is his name. TD didn't give it to him.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:19
#26769
Damn, there goes US productivity for the month of August... Might want to start working on the new formula adjustment now.
Here are some suggestions that seem fishy:
http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv128/followthecircledown/MACROS/Poly...
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s84/Meander_2007/43827648.jpg
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu310/housedemsgirl/youngrahmballerin...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/IndesElfwine/slide_619_12706_large...
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:53
#26808
ha ha fucking Rahm is a goddamn double barrel ... but i don't know whats worse, having an image of him in my head him going down on Bawney Fwank or on Pelosi ..
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 06:41
#27030
Poofect!
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:19
#26770
Now I don't know about the rest of you but I am wondering what he means by disinformation. For example don't you actually have to read the contents of the bill before you can make an assertion about the validity of the information others are presenting?
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:19
#26772
Now I don't know about the rest of you but I am wondering what he means by disinformation. For example don't you actually have to read the contents of the bill before you can make an assertion about the validity of the information others are presenting?
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:22
#26776
I found this seditious statement on the web:
"It is evident from these considerations, that the plurality of the Executive tends to deprive the people of the two greatest securities they can have for the faithful exercise of any delegated power, first, the restraints of public opinion, which lose their efficacy, as well on account of the division of the censure attendant on bad measures among a number, as on account of the uncertainty on whom it ought to fall; and, secondly, the opportunity of discovering with facility and clearness the misconduct of the persons they trust, in order either to their removal from office or to their actual punishment in cases which admit of it.
Oddly enough this applies here. Whoever put this out needs to be called to account, and is not being called out by the president. This statement also applies to the installation of the "czars". This is the insidious corruption of "the bureaucracy.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:23
#26778
Tyler, I sense sarcasism in this posting. Given how important a task the government is trying to undertake, I feel it is my duty to report you. Doing this anonymously is even more dangerous. While I'm at it, I should probably report myself.
Seriously, this is scary stuff. Wonder how long talk radio will be around.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 07:28
#27064
talk radio? heck what about the internet , as we have known it?
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:24
#26779
This fella that won the Presidency? Well he might not even be a citizen, and with a Kenyan father, he certainly is not a 'natural born citizen' so he is a usurper.
He needs flagged.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:46
#26797
As Bill Maher put it so succintly, the only people who spread these types of rumors are dummies talking to dummies. Get a clue.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:16
#26843
oh yes, bill maher is such an erudite and knowledgeable source really worth citing and taking his words into consideration as an argument
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:39
#26870
Actually, he is.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:50
#26876
to my standards he is not ...
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:56
#26884
So you are a fan of Lou Dobbs and the craze that he wasn't born in America Cheeky? Your IQ test is forthcoming.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:04
#26891
If we are down to picking between Lou Dobbs and Bill Maher... gotta go with Bill on this one...
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:12
#26897
first of all i don't have slightest idea who the fuck Lou dobbs is. and second of all your reasoning is false, because a) i am not an American, and thus i actually don't draw my arguments from someone who only appears on TV, i base my arguments either on a) mathematics, b) social sciences c) general observation. So please don jump into conclusion that im just another moron who learns things watching TV. i dont even have a tv. so you fail. second of all, when you cite someone, make sure he has a background which can validate him as a reliable source of knowledge. no one on tee vee has that. also it is both odd to me, and somewhat weird that me, a European dude, knows so much about the US and has an interest to see that this country actually succeeds and goes back to the path of its former glory, than many other posters here, or the general public in the US for that matter. And i can also say that i know the American constitution by heart, and im not even sure how many people in America can locate some European country on the map.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 03:20
#26979
I think Doug Casey said that America was an idea but it is gone, there is only the united states.
I wouldn't go hoping too much for something that will never happen.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:49
#26937
Howard_Beale = Mr. Ad hominem ad infinitum
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 07:29
#27066
bill is just a tool.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 10:08
#27247
I think you are taking your sarcastic remarks to far. You cannot, after all, be serious.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:16
#26905
Bill Maher is the anti-christ..with a small penis! I just reported him to whitehouse for showing the ass of a dog with the face of Jesus!
I wish Gore would send him to snoop on NK..and then you can go fetch him...
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:29
#26785
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UReMIrcb8E
the countryslide saga continues. ladies and gentlemen, i present you with the "friends of angelo"
get a rope.....
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:04
#26820
Countrywide!? An exec at Freddie Mac is literally fucking Barney Frank in the ass and we are talking about Countrywide!?
Countrywide!
Cheers,
prat
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:30
#26786
Nixonian.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:38
#26792
I have this before and I'll say it again. Obama will be remembered as the worst President in the past 230+ years.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:40
#26793
I can see it now Escape from USSA
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:40
#26795
I understand the motivations of the White House, and I don't think they're trying to be underhanded. There are a lot of "fishy" rumors about the proposed health reforms circulating. Regardless of whether you support or oppose the reform, the level of mis- and disinformation among the public is stunning. I'm confident that the White House is simply trying to get a better understanding of how these rumors are being circulated so they can respond more effectively.
That said, it was still a dumb, dumb press release.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:48
#26800
If the attempt was put out more like, there will be a test on this, and if understand enough to pass I'll get extra (tax) credit, then that would accomplish the painstaking incentive, as positive reinforcement always works better than negative.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:53
#26807
Damn, that was perfect satire until you added that last line and established seriousness.
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:59
#26815
like....(you're) a pain in the ass? true
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:56
#26814
I understand the motivations of the White House, and I don't think they're trying to be underhanded. There are a lot of "fishy" rumors about the proposed health reforms circulating. Regardless of whether you support or oppose the reform, the level of mis- and disinformation among the public is stunning. I'm confident that the White House is simply trying to get a better understanding of how these rumors are being circulated so they can respond more effectively.
Yes, and the tooth fairy, along with Santa and Peter Pan will come and restructure the US debt, prosecute the Wall Street, and make deficits the thing of the past ..
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:02
#26819
Obama is a constitional law scholar... if there is one president who would understand the potential of something like flag@whitehouse.gov it would be him... and I voted for the guy... either the administration is completely overwhelmed and directionless... or they have a complete inability to understand the enormity of their situation. we have 300 million people in our country who may or may not be disinformed or putting out disinformation... WTF kind of plan is flag@whitehouse.gov?
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:10
#26832
No offense MinnesotaNice, but I'd say you voted for form over substance.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:15
#26839
Actually I would say it was desperation to escape from the Bush years... I voted for Bush also x2... I would say that my track record in selecting Presidents is somewhat impaired... I think I will sit out the next election.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:16
#26842
Constitutional law scholar?
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Constitutional law scholarship consists, as near as I can tell, of a concerted effort to ignore this one, obvious amendment that even a 3rd grader could understand.
Cheers,
prat
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:59
#26941
"Woe to you, teachers of the law (and constitutional law scholars), you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
Look, your house is left to you desolate.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 07:20
#27053
minnesotanotice:
"either the administration is completely overwhelmed and directionless... or they have a complete inability to understand the enormity of their situation."
or they are COMPLETELY aware of EXACTLY what they are undertaking.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 09:29
#27191
Yes I agree that would be a third option... I hope it isn't the correct one however...
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 11:10
#27349
MN,
I guardedly share your hope.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 07:25
#27059
Consitutional law scholar my f'g ass. He is of the Constitution is a "living document" ilk. Which means, the Constitution means whatever he says it means. His position on just the 2nd Amendment is indicative of his lack of understandsing of the Consitution. F him and all of his minions.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 07:27
#27062
"Obama is a constitional law scholar."
In his own mind maybe, but nowhere else. This is one of the stupidest but most often-parroted talking points imaginable, and its purpose is to give his actions the glow of pre-approved Constitutionality. When the sonuvabitch (figuratively) burns the Reichstag, will that be based on his knowledge of the Constitution?
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:15
#26841
I am sure the Nazi's used your line of reasoning too: "Hitler is just trying to count the Jews, that is all".
Moron.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:35
#26862
F
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:37
#26869
Howard im sorry to hear that.
But its the problem lays not with the health care companies, but with big industrial and service behemoths who lobby for this sort of legislation because it would put most of the small businesses out of business. And they want that. Wal-Mart, Target and the likes of them are lobbying hard for this legislation to pass.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:41
#26865
You are mixing corporate interests with corporate interests. Are you long Humana?
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:50
#26803
this is precisely the totalitarian modus operandi i expected from rockefeller tool barry soetoro barrack hussein obama, kenyan born indonesian citizen usurper of the presidency......
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:05
#26821
Are you Michele Bachmann or the "crazy birther lady"?
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:31
#26861
no he is just being factual in an indie sort of way
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:52
#26804
Whoa. What's that smell? Is some one digging up J. Edgar Hoover?
on Wed, 08/05/2009 - 23:59
#26816
I turned myself in. Dang, now I'm wating for the secret service to turn up with a MIB flashy-thing to give me a new memory.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:07
#26822
I turned myself in too, but I asked for rehabilitation. Waiting for an ACORN volunteer to show up at my door with Obama Healthcare free electroshock therapy. I will welcome it.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 07:31
#27068
jim, if thst happens, then meet them at the door with that 38, you just got out of the cookie jar...
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:00
#26818
I emailed this to them:
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
and recommended, in particular, they look at the 10th modification of the document. Blatant, ugly, unrepentant anti-health care reform propaganda, probably put out there by a conglomerate of evil insurance companies.
Can't be too careful, kids. Keep your eyes open.
Cheers,
prat
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:07
#26825
Obama = Chavez
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:12
#26836
I signed up that email address for a lot of spam. Was that wrong?
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:17
#26844
Thats funny... maybe there are other things out there that we could sign that email up for... any ideas?
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:20
#26849
midge pR0n and cock enlargement advertising ..
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:16
#26906
Awesome gfi!!!
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:14
#26838
All this from a Texas senator...BFD. I've had enough of Texas politicians. Gee, too bad Dubyuh couldn't have run for another term. Then there would be no information on GS or anything else. Doesn't anyone see the logic here?
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:11
#26896
So asking people to report on their neighbors is OK? I am not sure I understand your message, Adolph.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 08:18
#27107
now THAT is funny
+1
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:44
#26933
Howard_Beale, forgive me please, i must have missed something here, but, could you please say what logic everyone is missing?
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 06:35
#27022
The irony of your avatar is clearly lost on you. Have you even seen the movie Network?
Let me quote you a narrative: "But, man, you're never going to get any truth from us. We'll tell you anything you want to hear; we lie like hell. We'll tell you that, uh, Kojak always gets the killer, or that nobody ever gets cancer at Archie Bunker's house, and no matter how much trouble the hero is in, don't worry, just look at your watch; at the end of the hour he's going to win. We'll tell you any shit you want to hear. We deal in *illusions*, man! None of it is true! But you people sit there, day after day, night after night, all ages, colors, creeds... We're all you know. You're beginning to believe the illusions we're spinning here. You're beginning to think that the tube is reality, and that your own lives are unreal. You do whatever the tube tells you! You dress like the tube, you eat like the tube, you raise your children like the tube, you even *think* like the tube! This is mass madness, you maniacs! In God's name, you people are the real thing! *WE* are the illusion! So turn off your television sets. Turn them off now. Turn them off right now. Turn them off and leave them off! Turn them off right in the middle of the sentence I'm speaking to you now! TURN THEM OFF..."
The logic here is slight of hand, but you have to understand that the system is larger than a mere President. If you had a printing press, wouldn't you hand pick desirable candidates that have been groomed in the CFR from both parties with loyalty to you and the principles you taught - you could fund their campaign and they could be forever indebted to you and promote legislation you want. You can be mad as hell, but you should understand the source of the frustration.
From the movie, "You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels. It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today!
Scary.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 07:25
#27060
amen apocalypse now.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:17
#26845
This government Marxist- stalinist tactic is well within our history. Remember, the US fought, financed and died for Stalins marxism. this is our history. Read your hitory books. 600k american soldiers died fighting for stalins marxism. No way around this. Hence, this is a logical extension of our historical policies. Next up? death camps for anti-communists, anti-obamaites, anti wall street sheisters.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 07:57
#27094
oh so true. roosevelt himself was a communist and probably a mole for the soviet government as were many of the people in his administration.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:25
#26856
Relax people - if found guilty you will just be required to attend special classes at the Ministry of Love (and Hope).
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 07:05
#27044
Can you say rat hat?
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:29
#26860
"(Hint: Yes)". More thought control please.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:32
#26863
I tried to donate but there is something wrong. I can't really say what it is...please check into it. If it is my error, I apologize.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:35
#26866
MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT!!!!!
WE NEED TO STOP LETTING HIS NAME GET BESMIRCHED.
AS JFK SAID, MCCARTHY WAS A FUCKING HERO.
damn it.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 08:01
#27098
actually he was right. but his work (as usual) was sabotaged from within his own staff, by the same people who he was trying to stop in our own government. if the truth was fully known, he probably should be a hero with a statue in washington dc somewhere on the mall. but what we are told is that he was just some drunk with some silly ideas, etc and of course the communist always whine about freedom of speech, until they don't need anymore, which is what they are doing now and have been doing for a long time.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:36
#26868
Maybe this is the first (goose) step toward the "citizen police" (aka brownshirts) he mentioned during his campaign (takeover).
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:53
#26879
Where were these tea bagger idiots for the past 8 years? All of a sudden their trailers are gassed up and riding the country state to state.
RNC can go to hell!
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 05:14
#26998
Riding the country? I hate to break it to you, Pal, but we're everywhere. We're in the car behind you on the freeway, across the street and in the market with you. We are the resistance. As for your comment about the last 8 years, are you really that clueless? Most of us couldn't stand Bush either. Better wake up buddy. BHO isn't just going to take what's left of our America. He's taking yours, too.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 08:28
#27118
And many of us cherish and practice the 2nd Amendment. Don't let the suit and tie fool you...
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 00:56
#26883
I love flag@whitehouse; just forwarded there all of those resumes I received at work that are gunning for my position, this is FUN. It's fun unless you start thinking about it. And then it hits you, what have we done wrong? Were all of those ideas of our rights and freedoms just in our heads to begin with?
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:01
#26886
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYjj-qzUWWA
This is the ladies room at Whitehouse.gov
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:01
#26887
Dick Armey is the one running this Freedomworks campaign that's trying to recruit an army of Glen Beck sycophants and Sean Hannity fans and get them out there at these town hall meetings to stir up a ruckus. The same Dick Armey who, as a lobbyist, is currently on the payroll of the big insurance companies that are really the ones fighting to the death against any real health care reform. Then you have Rick Scott, who as chairman of one of the biggest hospital chains in the country, was once fined 1.7 BILLION for defrauding medicare (now THAT'S a proud American for you), also bankrolling this whole "grassroots" movement to stop any reform.
And they truly are spreading misinformation. Because the insurance companies will lose out big time if this bill goes through in its present form. Anyone who argues against universal health care reform is a foolish stooge who has been duped into fighting for their master's profits. Is isn't about fighting against socialism or big Government or Big Brother or "real" American virtues; it's about fighting to make sure these insurance companies can continue making BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of dollars every year by fucking the average American right in the ass when they need help the most. And what these unimaginably conscienceless scumbags are doing is riling up very stupid people to go out there and fight for them to retain the right to continue fucking those very same stupid people right in the ass. It's comedy, is what it is. Tragic comedy.
It was a stupid idea, this flagging bullshit (I think the link has been taken off line.) But the misinformation that's being put out there by these insurance company shills is just boundless in its magnitude. And I guess they felt they had to try and do something to combat it.
For any of you to argue against this healthcare bill would be like you arguing for GS to make a dollar off of every share of every stock you buy or sell. Don't you get it? These guys, these insurance company fuck-tards, make the crooks running Wall St. look like 7-11 stickup artists. Like rank amateurs when it comes to thievery. And all these sad, poor, dumb fucks out there ranting and raving against "socialized medicine" and "Barack Hussein Obama" are gonna feel real stupid if they succeed in shouting this down when they get cancer or MS or whatever and their carrier cancels their policy on some small print technicality. Because that's what they do. They do everything in their legal powers to keep from having to pay what you pay them to pay for. So go out there and fight against socialized medicine if you want. Just don't get sick, is all.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:07
#26894
Vicelord: I have fantastic healthcare. Why shouldn't I defend it?
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:16
#26904
You only think that because you are healthy. According to insurance exec. testimony, you have a 50% chance of getting kicked out of your policy retroactively if you have a serious medical condition. Here's the math:
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/08/government-taken-in-dealings-with-wall.html
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:17
#26907
duoh.. posted the wrong link
http://tauntermedia.com/2009/07/28/unconscionable-math/
sorry.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 05:15
#27000
You're right. So what? 50% odds are still better than what BHO has in mind.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:12
#26899
STFU..How can we accept something our government won't use???? Yeah, the insurance companies are awful, but this is a wake up call for them too!
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:14
#26901
I do understand you thoughts on this subject... likely better than most because I am a health care professional and see the ramifications of the uninsured everyday... but I also own a medium size business and I do understand the ramifications from that side also. From my perspective Obama has spent to much time trying to please everyone... and now he has nothing that pleases anybody... he missed the window to show strong leadership so the informal leaders such as the insurance companies gained the upper hand.
You can send me in to flag@whitehouse.gov for spreading more disinformation :-)
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:22
#26912
Anyone who argues against universal health care reform is a foolish stooge who has been duped into fighting for their master's profits.
Right. There isn't any principled resistance to universal health care from people concerned about, oh, say, the tenth amendment.
There are plenty of ways to deal with the multinationals. News flash: centralized government power ain't one of them. Case in point: Goldman Sachs.
Cheers,
prat
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:28
#26917
Principled perhaps, but deeply misinformed. Medicare hasn't even been challenged on constitutional grounds. Then there's that whole "General Welfare" part of the preamble. Finally, the insurance industry stooges are also opposed to states having the option to run their own public healthcare system, which even the teabaggers can't oppose on dim "constitutional" grounds.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 10:20
#27273
preambles are not law, too vague to be enforcible or accurately interpreted, could be construed to mean anything or nothing, and therefore of no legal import unless read with reference to enumerated powers
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 12:43
#27528
merely hortatory
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 09:19
#27176
Its just a piced of paper!
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:29
#26919
There are so many things you do not understand, but I'll list two. One, any political involvement in the "tea parties" was secondary to an ever-increasing anger on the part of Americans to decreasing freedom. Two, healthcare is not a right. If you think it is, then answer this: to be delivered by whom?? You are advocating the slavery of doctors, sir. Slavery. Figure it out.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 02:33
#26957
Oh, get a grip! Does the very name "Cheney" give you seizures? Disconnect all your synapses? Don't you understand that BOTH parties, for the last 100 years, have been busily peddling the same damn dogfood, in differing packages?
There is not a "healthcare" problem per se in America. There *is* a problem with how it is paid for. Health "insurance" is nothing more than a prepaid medical expense plan. "Insurance" as it is ordinarily understood is supposed to provide protection against calamity, not to pay for the medical equivalent of oil changes and tune ups.
Why does it cost so much to get health care? Simply put, because the system in place now is *almost* as backwards as it can be, if the object is to deliver quality health care efficiently and at the lowest possible cost. Shopping for a car? You may very well buy a Ford, even though you like the Lexus better. When's the last time you shopped for anything to do with health care? Or asked the price before you took delivery on the services you wanted or needed?
Our current system is already almost 50% paid for by government at one level or another. The scheduled rates that Medicaid and Medicare pay to providers are so far below what the private insurance companies pay it is criminal, and the "discounts" that Blue Cross et al get of of the "billed" charges from providers are pretty eye-popping to begin with.
Try negotiating a cash on the barrel head price next time at the doctor's office. Start by asking the proprietor of the establishment - the doc himself - "How much?" Try not to be alarmed when he does not know. He'll direct you to his "business manager". This person will explain to you that you needn't worry about that, they'll just turn it in to your insurance carrier. Once you explain that you do not intend to turn in a claim, but wish to pay here and now, you will need to wait for a spell, while (probably) she makes the short but uncomfortable journey from stunned, to suspicious. Congratulations - you are now a trouble-maker, for you have had the temerity to insist on paying in cash for goods and services you procured on the premises, for your own use and benefit. Once in a while, you'll find someone that actually gets it, and that understands the time value of money. You'll pay somewhere between the Medicare and Insurance Company rate, depending on how good you are at haggling, and how many re-re-re-filed claims there are in play between that office and the insurance carriers. Cash today is way better than cash in 60 to 120 days. Somebody offer her (or him) a bond trading job. They already have the correct instincts...!
There are plenty of doctors that have already kicked over the traces and left "the system". They operate on a strictly cash basis - no Medicare, no Medicaid, no insurance. The schedule of fees is prominently posted in the waiting room. Instead of 6 or 8 filing clerks wearing fake scrubs and playing nurse, the doc will have one real nurse, and a part time bookkeeper. Low overhead, low cost, just see the doc, and pay him. How quaint.
There is one sentence in your screed that tells the whole story. "They do everything in their legal powers to keep from having to pay what you pay them to pay for." ... You PAY the insurance company to PAY YOUR BILL FOR YOU ... why? Why not pay for it yourself? Are we Americans AFRAID to pay the doctor directly? Is it against our religion?
My solution is far too simple to even be considered. Simply make "health insurance" as it is currently sold, illegal. Hospitalization insurance? Sure. Cancer insurance? No problem. Accident insurance? You can get it now. The only reason that being "uninsured" has gotten to be such a scary notion for many Americans is because the whole system has been corrupted - the is no free, transparent market for any of those goods and services, so there are no market prices. Is there a model for such a marketplace? Sure. Orthodontia is an excellent example. There is no insurance for it as far as I can tell. You can charge it, you can pay cash. If you pay up front, you get a nice discount. And you pay for the outcome, not the procedure.
I'll stop now. It is hard to write coherently in a tiny box, and I've gone on too long as it is. Call it what you will - single payer/socialized/all-your-doctors-are-belong-to-us medicine... it is worse than a horrible idea. The Federal Government's track record in providing health care is already abysmal (Veteran's Hospitals, anyone?), and when it comes to "taking over" and "saving money", the batting average is pretty much zero point zero.
Somebody please turn me in. I just KNOW the White House will be chilled to learn there is an irate peckerwood loose somewhere in Appalachia, spreadin yet more lies and disinformation. So turn me in. Twice.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 03:11
#26973
I'll turn you in, because I want you in the same camp with me :) You are great! Thank you for writing all of that.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 03:17
#26978
DONE
oh and ill take you as my consigliere once we end up in a camp
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 03:54
#26986
I have never seen this said so well. It's funny to see someone argue for capitalism in the united states. If anyone has went to a doctor in foreign third world countries they would know you couldn't be more right. It is just as you say but at a fraction of the cost of the united states. Another example why the u.s. will be left behind.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 05:17
#27001
Cheney? When in the hell are you losers going to move on?
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 07:13
#27048
mark it bona fide
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 07:53
#27088
This is so dead on. We have had a high deductible or HSA plan for a number of years and this has been our experience time and again. The dumb stares when you ask how much a procedure costs is priceless. The three day response when you ask for a cash discount. The number of places that aren't prepared to receive cash, etc. At first it's frustrating then the haggling becomes fun.
I'll also add that if you look at elective surgeries (not BHO's elective surgeries like that hip replacement or painpill scenario he laid out) like cosmetic surgery the prices are all discussed up front and agreed to and the prices continue to drop over time because the consumer pays for it directly and their is price competition.
Great post #26957.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 22:37
#28768
Well said. Cash for services... who would have thought?
Cut the middleman out!
Your appointment might even last more than 12 minutes.
on Mon, 08/10/2009 - 00:03
#31360
Is health care “reform” life support for managed care?
“There is not a "healthcare" problem per se in America. There is a problem with how it is paid for. Health "insurance" is nothing more than a prepaid medical expense plan. "Insurance" as it is ordinarily understood is supposed to provide protection against calamity, not to pay for the medical equivalent of oil changes and tune ups. … My solution is far too simple to even be considered. Simply make "health insurance" as it is currently sold, illegal.” (Anonymous)
Healthcare “reform” is not about medicine, it is about money.
Background: a managed care enterprise.
Employer based health care: Employer based health care means a boss or union collects money in advance to pay for a worker’s medical care later on. The “bank” is an insurance company like Blue Cross or Kaiser. The money belongs to an employer like GM or a union like SEIU.
The less money spent on medical care, the more the employer or union keeps.
Economics 101 – increase revenue, decrease expenses: It is advantageous for employers and unions to promise first-dollar coverage for inexpensive services like vaccines and well-baby check-ups. Health care premiums increase.
It is also advantageous to transfer the cost of catastrophic medical care to someone else. After sick or old workers quit, employers and unions can keep their health “insurance” premiums and use this money to pay for the medical care needed by the next crop of healthy workers.
Taxpayers pick up the tab for many disabled and old workers by financing Medicare and Medicaid, both of which are massively underfunded. These health plans stay afloat by coercing physicians to accept payments that are below the cost of doing business with extortionary threats of $12,000/incident fines and jail time if caught “over-charging” for a $100 office visit.
He who pays the piper calls the tune: In managed care, physicians often work for the Payers (employers, unions or the government) instead of patients. Payers hire managed care companies such as HMOs and PPOs to keep physicians in line. A managed care enterprise is in the catbird seat; the tail wags the dog.
HMOs: Some employers, unions and governments pay HMO physicians a fixed monthly stipend to “provide” care. Any money not spent on patients goes to physician bonuses, executive salaries and other perks. HMO physicians have financial incentives to both give medical care and to withhold “unnecessary” care. This is called “distributive justice” or a “complete lives system.” As Dr. Emanuel notes, it “considers prognosis, since its aim is to achieve complete lives. … When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated.”
PPOs: Some employers, unions and governments rent physicians from PPOs, paying the PPO a stipend, a percentage of billed charges, or a percentage of the “discount” on billed charges. Think of PPOs as temporary agencies that have physicians for hire. The less medical care a PPO physician gives, the more the PPO earns - and the more money the Payer keeps in its bank. See: http://www.principal.com/partners/providers/ppomap.htm
Some HMO physicians rent other physicians from PPOs. For instance, Kaiser-Permanente rents around 400,000 physicians from PHCS/Multiplan, Inc., a portfolio company of The Carlyle Group that “covers” 40 million Americans.
Managed care middlemen include medical associations like AMA: Some medical association insiders run PPOs. See www.cfmcnet.org. The American Medical Association (AMA) sells software that is at the heart of managed care. The AMA also mines data. Electronic transmission of confidential medical records makes data mining simple – and lucrative.
Civil war now rages between physicians who manage health care and physicians who give medical care.
Managed care is underfunded: Some employers and unions that promise to pay for health care have not put enough cash aside for a rainy day. GM and UAW were tips of an iceberg. SEIU National Industry Pension Plan, a plan for rank-and-file SEIU members covering 100,787 workers, was 74.9% funded in 2006 - $19,025/union member. (http://atr.org/seiu-crashes-private-efca-event-meanwhile-a3609#) Other examples abound.
Health Care for America Now (HCAN), whose members include the SEIU, ACORN, the AFL-CIO, the National Education Association and the National Council of La Raza, is actively lobbying to help its members get out from under their crushing debts by “reforming” health care.
Medicare and Medicaid are underfunded: Medical care is already almost 50% paid for by government at one level or another. Medicare alone is underfunded by more than a trillion dollars. Obligating governments - and taxpayers - further without fundamentally changing health insurance is a recipe for disaster.
Obamacare, advertised as health care reform, will not work because:
• It separates physicians from patients.
• It puts managed care on life support rather than creating the fundamental changes needed.
• It rewards a vast army who profit by denying that medical care recommended by a patient’s personal physician is necessary. By legislative fiat, “generally” accepted “standards” like the Interqual Criteria will be used to force physicians to ration medical care even more. Middlemen have lobbied hard for this lard.
• It destroys the medical practices of independent physicians and tramples on their constitutional rights. Physicians will continue to be compelled to work as indentured servants of a managed care enterprise.
• There will be a Big Brother. Electronic health records are a license to snoop, and data mining will become even bigger business.
• The American Medical Association’s (AMA) will continue to earn hundreds of millions of dollars from CPT and ICD-9 codes, arcane sets of payment rules at the heart of managed care. AMA’s mouth is stuffed with gold.
• It lets unions and employers that have promised health care that they cannot deliver to shift unfunded obligations to taxpayers.
• It costs too much. Congress promises health care but fails to rehabilitate health insurance.
Support Real Solutions:
Slow down. There is no “crisis.” America does not want socialized medicine no matter what it is called.
Show us the money. Do not underfund and overspend. Unions, employers and politicians promise health care but still have not come up with a way to put enough money in the bank to pay for it.
Clean house: demand that Congress enforce the Pension Preservation Act.
Diet: do not ask our children and grandchildren to pay for broken promises of first-dollar managed care health plans.
Enforce laws that outlaw fee-splitting with physicians – taking a cut of the action for pushing paper. Shut down the PPO market that escalates costs and siphons as much as 10% of the health care dollar away from giving medical care into managing paper.
Enforce anti-trust laws against both health insurance companies and managed care physician groups. Of course prices sky-rocket when more than half of a market can negotiate collectively.
Get physicians out of the bureaucrat’s bed. Eliminate the American Medical Association’s control over the CPT codes. Hold physicians who run HMOs and PPOs accountable for their actions under current tort laws.
Put a stop to middlemen prying into the secret lives of the sick – electronically. Revise HIPAA to close this gigantic privacy loophole.
Promote the Hippocratic Oath that requires a physician to care for the sick and to keep every patient’s confidence. Physicians will first, do no harm. In return, society must respect those who carry this special burden of knowledge and trust.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 03:47
#26983
The government can only take from one group and give to another. We can no longer get foreigners to pay for it or claim that our children or their children will pay for current spending - we will pay for the spend through tax receipts. Why might we have reservations?
This reminds me of Logan's Run, the book's fictional society is governed by a computer that kills everyone at 21 to guard against overpopulation. Runners flee death at a tender age, and a political resistance aids runners and is busy co-opting the computer, so one day a new system will be born.
Why would you trust Obama with this after taking our tax dollars and giving them to the bankers? Do you want everything to be centrally controlled like Autos, Finance, and Media because then we would be a dictatorship and less capitalistic than China. Money and media are completely controlled, property rights have been taken under the guise of eminent domain, the last frontier is your body & privacy rights- should the government own those too?
What do we even know about him, he magically came on the scene a few years ago? He won't release many of his normal records, and is being protected from critical questions by a media that resorts to ad hominem attacks in an attempt to silence any valid inquiries. The media and Obama have the same sponsors, the media hero worship was designed to ensure he had the full support of the populace for bringing in the sponsors game plan. Despite the unprecedented media propaganda/worship, his poll ratings are falling and are lower than Jimmy Carters at this stage (amazing). The banker bailout was strike one, jamming this down the throat of America is clearly a second strike.
The powerful interests behind Obama chose and funded him, he has more than repaid the banks in bailouts, backstops, and is attempting to have them self regulate (Fed). The second largest campaign contributor was health care companies, what is the real plan here if I can be pragmatically cynical. Congress gets an epic fail approval rating at 33%, one of the lowest, perhaps because they are not reading the bills before voting. I have met business people that I trusted and liked, but I can not say the same for most politicians.
Like everything else, this is probably just an attempt to add a tax to health care which will increase prices and not decrease them and you will pay for the health care of illegal aliens - TANSTAFL (there aint no such thing as free lunch). If we want to really focus on prevention, overhaul the FDA - it's a crime that hydrogenated oil, aspartame, msg, and hexane extracted soy protein is used in our food. Companies have taken out expensive nutrients over the years and replaced them with chemical flavors, cheap fat lard, cheap sweeteners like high fructose corn syrup, and salt (read your labels).
If we all stopped smoking (Pres) & drinking, ate our vegetables, ate less calories, and walked 5 miles a day we wouldn't be having this discussion. We have no right to eternal life, and if you tax me to pay for everyone else's healthcare you infringe upon my right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Your blind faith in government is naive, the lyrics to the O'Brother Where Art Thou song Big Rock Candy Mountain come to mind:
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains,
There's a land that's fair and bright,
Where the handouts grow on bushes
And you sleep out every night.
Where the boxcars all are empty
And the sun shines every day
And the birds and the bees
And the cigarette trees
The lemonade springs
Where the bluebird sings
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains.
Just say no. Your avatar is sporting a magic marker mustache, do you have a little captain in you?
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 06:07
#27016
Vicelord, I agree to a certain extent: the insurance companies are dirtbags. I wouldn't go as far to say they make they make the banksters looks like 7-11 stickup artists only because it's so subjective at this point. I guess it all depends whether you've been short the past month vs. my mom got cancer and insurance didn't pay out. All a matter of perspective on that one.
BUT just because the insurance companies are skim-off-the-top pieces of shit, does not make the administration right. Nor does it give them the constitutional authority to do any of this. At least when I enter an insurance contract it's voluntary exchange. When it's the government, they will confiscate your property to give you "access" to their system, and, if you resist, they will eventually put a bullet in your head.
This can all be solved through a different means. we don't need the government to enforce contracts.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:03
#26888
Standing up to GS capture of US then carrying water for insurance industry shills?
TD, stick with what you know.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 07:07
#27045
2/3rds of the posters on this board are "carrying water for insurance industry shills",.. they just don't realize it.
Well said.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 07:51
#27087
Ridiculous. Your "arguments" boil down to nothing more than silence-by-shaming, and that's no argument. But it IS a common tactic, used by Repubs against the anti-foreign-war crowd,and used by Dems against anyone opposing socialist takeover schemes.
I get excellent health care and I stand to lose under your system. You want to provide health care to people to can't or won't get it for themselves, and you want to do it by holding a government gun to my head and making me pay for it, and reducing the amount of it that I get in the process by making me wait to get mine. Is there anything else they "need" and "have a right to" that they're not currently getting that I happen to have? I already pay for their housing and food, and educate their children. I subsidize their consumption of other goods and services, including police and fire. In return they use their vote to elect people like you who are willing to point the government gun at my head to take even more. So for you, theft and force are important vehicles for government activity.
Fuck you.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 11:31
#27392
You just said that you stand to loose with new system and then go on with that false assumption. Who told you that you gona loose? What is in the bill that will make it loose something? Will you loose when someone else gets healthcare? WIll you loose when there is no bankrupcies due to unpaid medical bills? Will you loose when doctors know that everyone will pay their services?
Proove it.
on Thu, 08/06/2009 - 01:03
#26889
If your going to e-mail fishy.gov Because you believe in freedom of speech and the first Amendment you may as well
copy that and send it to your congress person too.
http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml