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Criminal Probe Launched Into Goldman Sachs

Tyler Durden's picture


Time for the media circus to go nuts. The AP reports that the Feds have just opened a criminal probe into Goldman: now it is getting interesting. And everyone was thinking that Eric Holder is a toothless puppet (well, that still has to be refuted).

As the AP reports, "The investigation by the U.S. attorney's office in Manhattan stems from a criminal referral by the Securities and Exchange Commission, a knowledgeable person said Thursday. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because the inquiry is in a preliminary phase."

Word of the Justice Department action came a day after a group of 62 House lawmakers, including Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers, D-Mich., asked Justice to conduct a criminal probe of Goldman. "On the face of the SEC filing, criminal fraud on a historic scale seems to have occurred in this instance," the lawmakers, mostly Democrats, said in a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder.

SEC spokesman John Nester declined any comment on the matter, as did Yusill Scribner, a spokeswoman for the U.S. attorney's office in Manhattan.

Goldman spokesman Lucas van Praag said, "Given the recent focus on the firm, we're not surprised by the report of an inquiry. We would cooperate fully with any request for information."

The Justice Department move was the latest in a dramatic series of turns in the Goldman saga, which has pitted the culture of Wall Street against angry lawmakers in an election year, in the wake of the financial crisis that plunged the country into the most severe recession since the Great Depression of the 1930s.

Is a long overdue Pecora next?



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Fri, 04/30/2010 - 05:54 | 325057 Tart
Tart's picture

Harry Wanger will think this is bullish.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 06:30 | 325074 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

It is bullish, everything is it?

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 06:56 | 325095 Mitchman
Mitchman's picture


Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:11 | 325104 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

More bullish news:  Today Sarah Palin will officially be thrown under the Republican bus as her candidate in MN (Tom Emmer) will lose the endorsement for governor.  (Tim Paw may have an ax or two left to grind.)

Even more bullish: Another oil rig will blow up and America will wake up and see that maybe the first one wasn't an accident.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:35 | 325124 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

remember destroying the environment to save it is no crime. greenpeace loves to drive around in polluting ships and boats maned by inheritance babies and off their meds psychotics who fly 1st class around the world saving Gia . .Al Gore understands :by all means necessary.


Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:50 | 325138 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

I was putting the blame on someone's sub.  Maybe it is Greenpeace?  Apparently the lock down mechanism on the rig failed (it anchors the oil line to the seabed) this is supposed to stop the black gold from flowing out of the well in the event of pressure loss.  Getting tools 5000 feet down to fix it is another matter completely.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 09:07 | 325216 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

All of this is supposed to garner opposition to offshore drilling off the east coast by way of giving the envirowhackos something to point at.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 09:42 | 325280 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

According to who Matt Drudge?  Why would Obama even suggest drilling off the Atlantic coast?

Unless... wait for it... the USA was vulnerable to oil shortage.  Is there better way to tell us that Atlantic drilling is a big 'fail' in terms of national security then to demonstrate how easy it is to blow up oil rigs IN THE FUCKING GULF RIGHT NEXT DOOR.

But that's just me.  Maybe Greenpeace did it.

Sat, 05/01/2010 - 00:39 | 326639 Alienated Serf
Alienated Serf's picture

france sunk all green peace subs years ago

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 09:08 | 325218 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Do you have any evidence at all of that oil rig allegation?  I didn't think so.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 09:44 | 325289 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

Is it that frightening to you?

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:48 | 325188 Inspector Asset
Inspector Asset's picture

AH yes to the Pecora!



Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:14 | 325106 Salinger
Salinger's picture

Actually, when you consider it, elevating this to criminal status is great news as it may be an indication that finally someone is taking on the banksters. I don't hold out much hope that much will come of this but if in fact there is a change in approach by TBTB it is long term very bullish for the broader economy. Who is Harry Wanker?

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:19 | 325111 Duuude
Duuude's picture


Fri, 04/30/2010 - 11:34 | 325535 Tethys
Tethys's picture

Somewhat predictable - the show trials had a positive effect for the administration's image, but that will end once GS settles.  So next comes a 'criminal' case (widely heralded with much publicity, no doubt) which will disappear completely after November elections or appear periodically in the headlines whenever the politicians need a populist boost.

Or perhaps I should believe that gov't is actually going to bite the hand that feeds it?  I think not.


Fri, 04/30/2010 - 09:59 | 325321 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture


SEC: Opening offer, $33 million fine no admission of guilt...
BofA boiler plate settlement... next case...

Memo to SEC Staff:
"Dump the Goldman files off of your hard drives and start downloading some new tranny porn..."

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 10:54 | 325443 Adam Neira
Adam Neira's picture

Audit all the banks and see where the chips fall. Everyone just might find that some have been better at the financial poker game than others. The chance/skill ratio of the game of poker means that over a period of time the smarter player will win more of the money. Sometimes people who lose their shirt maintain that the cards were stacked. A fair game frustrates the hell out of poor losers. Men can handle being rejected by a women. They can deal with ill-health. They will put up with jokes about their character. But they hate to admit that the other man is smarter than them. Most men would rather go to their deaths than face up to their intellectual and spiritual inadequacies.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 05:55 | 325058 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

Is a long overdue Pecora next?

Yes. But let's not gang up on Goldman. There is plenty of other germy banks, and federal officials at places like the NY Fed, or who used to be Treasury Secretary, who need the disinfectant that a good dose of sunshine into these hidden crevices could provide. But agree that any notion that the DOJ has suddenly grown a pair needs further proof.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:08 | 325150 aint no fortuna...
aint no fortunate son's picture

Speaking of former Treasury Secretaries, why has Holder not started an investigation of Paulson's role in the meltdown... his secret meetings with the Goldman BoD in Moscow hotel rooms that he didn't put on his calendar, his "accidentally" lost records of telephone conversations he had with Blankfein during 2008 (anybody know who he worked for in the early '70's? Try the Nixon WH - Ehrlichman to be exact - can you say Rosemary Woods?). This one single man had the motive, means and opportunity to destroy all of Goldman's major competitors ... and look how THAT turned out. I sent a 4 pager to my US Senator, cc'd to Holder, Shapiro and others outlining all the neat little opportunities that Goldman and and Paulson had for pulling off the crime of all time, right up to and including opening up their HFT trading platforms, dark pools/SIGMA X, etal to their hedge fund pals to flood the markets with naked shorts... obviously no one saw any reason to look into any of it.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:12 | 325162 Duuude
Duuude's picture

Excellent. Scan the letter and send it to ZH. The Hankster is the Smoking Gun.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 09:55 | 325316 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

It's called professional courtesy ... I'll leave it to you to determine which profession the two share, but I don't think Paulson is a lawyer.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 09:10 | 325184 Marvin_M
Marvin_M's picture

Hear, hear!  It is the system that is corrupt and broken.  Goldman is merely its poster child.  I too would love to believe that this signals a new era which can channel a Ferdinand Pecora to fully expose the disease that is Wall Street.  The Pecora commission was a no holds barred take down of a system that was rotten.  It succeeded largely due to the steadfast support of a new president in 1932, FDR.  If one reads this history it is eerily similar to the events and environment we have today.

After the findings of the Pecora Commission became public, the government took draconinan steps to cleanse the financial system of unethical and immoral practices; and to prevent it from ever again growing and mastisizing again.  But the cancer did return, ironically and perversely assisted by an even more corrupt crony government.  The question that we wait to be answered is: can the corrupt institution that is the US Government heal and redeam itself to the point where true moral authority over the financial system be re-established.  Will the President find the moral and righteous courage to lead and stand fast in this effort.

We will see...

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 09:49 | 325301 Popo
Popo's picture

Agreed. And that's all coming.  Wachovia and Wells should be shitting themselves right about now.  Perp walks are coming.  And lots of guys in those banks just started to sweat.


The question is:  Is it finally a good day for SKF?

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 05:55 | 325059 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"On the face of the SEC filing, criminal fraud on a historic scale seems to have occurred in this instance," the lawmakers, mostly Democrats, said in a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder."

Understatement of the century. And if you take down GS, you better take them all down.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:59 | 325146 Sqworl
Sqworl's picture

Me thinks that this is dessert to the Kabuki theater failure!!!!..the sheeple have seen behind the curtain?...:-)

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:59 | 325147 brooklynlou
brooklynlou's picture

Take them down? 'They' represent 60% of GDP. More likely an attempt to strong arm them for more taxes and political donations.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:58 | 325207 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I was talking about the 9 super banks and by "take down" I meant break up into smaller pieces while prosecuting. What did you mean by "they represent 60% of GDP"?

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 09:30 | 325259 A_MacLaren
A_MacLaren's picture

Breaking up the mega-banks has legislative backing in another way:
H.R. 5159:
To provide for a safe, accountable, fair, and efficient banking system, and for other purposes
S. 3241:
Safe, Accountable, Fair, and Efficient Banking Act of 2010

Any CONgress Critter that will not co-sponsor can/should/will be tarred as favoring/supporting To Big To Fail banks. 

We The People need to rally support for these bills, in the way that We told CONgress not to give Hanky-Panky Paulson his first bazooka.


Fri, 04/30/2010 - 05:57 | 325061 Sabremesh
Sabremesh's picture

Inevitable, and Goldman know what the eventual outcome will be. An organization which starts paying staff quarterly bonuses knows it is running on borrowed time. 

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 16:28 | 326069 Silvarouvres
Silvarouvres's picture

Very interesting. Did they really shift from yearly to quarterly bonuses?

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 06:00 | 325062 exportbank
exportbank's picture

Steve Wynn would love all this free advertising for his casino's.  

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 06:27 | 325072 Mercury
Mercury's picture

They're throwing up a smoke cloud.  Something else is going on which they don't want to get attention.  Don't fall for it.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 06:34 | 325077 Rick64
Rick64's picture

Gathering support for their nonreform financial legislation.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:21 | 325115 Duuude
Duuude's picture

Yeah, the fuching SEC settling with GS.

Mon, 05/03/2010 - 03:46 | 328796 TK
TK's picture

It's occured to me that's all this is as well.. Their not really in the wrong with what they are being questioned about. I can't verify that this is true, but I was told they got paid out by AIG (how the f*** was that possible!?) There are surely more interesting things to investigate where Goldman may have actually done something wrong, instead of selling a sophisticated investor a product that failed.  I really do not see anything they have done wrong so far and they've a public slap on the wrist, making all that money - NAUGHTY! Are we just placating jealous emotions at the moment?

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 06:36 | 325078 primefool
primefool's picture

The stock market does not care about geopolitical events, natural disasters, oil price, gold price, gdp release, unemployment, inflation. It is back to being on autopilot like it was during 2003-2007.

But - But - There is ONE thing the stock market deeply cares about - the health of Wall Street firms. Note the market was completely bullet-proof until Bear Stearns and then it gave up about 40 years of gains after Lehman. ( Not a typo : SPX 666 puts it back to 1968 in inflation adjusted terms).

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 06:43 | 325080 Mercury
Mercury's picture

...and speaking of geopolitical events we may be about to reprise 1968.

ZH's advance team of Soixante-huiters have just deployed to Europe...

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 06:45 | 325082 primefool
primefool's picture

Yeah  areprise of 1968 , but without Sgt. Peppers, The Doors etc. Not much fun!

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:45 | 325136 duo
duo's picture

And BHO's administration as morally bankrupt as Nixon's!

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 06:47 | 325085 Troy Ounce
Troy Ounce's picture

Better News Than Expected

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 06:53 | 325087 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I actually think now is the time to short GS as history show that charges sometimes bring them to a BK.

Look at Drexel Burnham Lambert in the 80's who went into BK because of the charges and also the charges against against Arthur Andersen that brought him down, even after he was cleared of charges.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 09:16 | 325234 Cursive
Cursive's picture

There are many who are too cynical to believe it could happen to GS.  Well, it could happen to GS.  Most if not all of the power players will survive for another day, but GS the vehicle is looking shaky right now.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 10:09 | 325346 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

The slimy squid will be hard to catch like a greased hog, but it can be done. 

It is interesting to watch the dogs bite the hand that feeds, that usually doesn't end well for the dogs.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 06:50 | 325088 primefool
primefool's picture

Any speculations on the time gap between the easing of Greece fears and the onset of Spain fears? I am thinking days not weeks.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 06:52 | 325089 primefool
primefool's picture

Greece, Portugal and Ireland problems are already kinda discounted. Spain and UK are not yet discounted. Goodbye PIGS, hello SUK

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 06:52 | 325090 anynonmous
anynonmous's picture


Will Lloyd Blankfein depart as CEO of Goldman Sachs?
Lloyd Blankfein to depart as CEO of Goldman Sachs before midnight ET 31 Dec 2010

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 06:53 | 325091 primefool
primefool's picture

To be followed by US. So SUK will be followed by USSUK

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:49 | 325139 ambrosiac
ambrosiac's picture




There.  Fixed it for you.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:00 | 325149 brooklynlou
brooklynlou's picture


Fri, 04/30/2010 - 06:53 | 325092 DoctoRx
DoctoRx's picture

Dems are grandstanding.  An historic crime?  Gimme a break.  The AIG conduit payments to Big Finance, however:  that might be another matter indeed.  

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:02 | 325153 Duuude
Duuude's picture

Bingo. As directed by policy from Bernanke and Paulson, uncovered by Barofsky in his Oct. 09 report.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 11:26 | 325514 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

As our friend Bill Black said "It isn't a crime when the government does it."

He was refferring to the negligence of the SEC under Bush, not this of course.

BTW - if you'd like to start a civil war, go ahead and prosecute the Bush administration (which is what prosecuting Hank Paulson for AIG would be.)

Sat, 05/01/2010 - 00:46 | 326643 Alienated Serf
Alienated Serf's picture

yup.  cds paid to gs on cdo/rmbs alone is staggering.  timmay and mr. hanky paulson are going down.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 06:55 | 325094 primefool
primefool's picture

No Lloyd will not go anywhere. This organization is like a secret society - blood brothers to the death. They will all stick together, protect their own - to the end. Was this not apparent in the hearings?

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:18 | 325103 JohnKing
JohnKing's picture

It works until it doesn't. The takeaway from the hearings was the disconnect between the senators and the Goldman boys.

a few media quotes:

Wall Street and Capitol Hill are completely different planets.

The disconnect was clear when three of the four witnesses on the hearing’s first panel struggled to respond to Senator Susan Collins's apparently simple question about whether they had a duty to act in the best interests of their clients.

What I saw was a sociopathic group so insulated from others that they actually forgot how to feign conscience. Most sociopaths have to learn how to fake empathy and concern for others or they fail miserably in society, most become very good actors and improve their skills over time by practicing on their prey. The Goldman crew by remaining insulated in their club lost a sociopath's most basic survival tool, the ability to appear as normal, caring human beings. Disconnect indeed.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:18 | 325108 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

What I saw was a sociopathic group so insulated from others that they actually forgot how to feign conscience.

Sociopaths certainly; perhaps insulated, or perhaps hubris at a level which mere mortals cannot comprehend.  Feign conscience?  Why?

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:33 | 325122 JohnKing
JohnKing's picture

Sociopaths have to feign emotions/concern for others in order to appear normal and avoid being shunned by proper society, the succesful ones become very good at it, crocodile tears, etc..the boys and girls at Goldman had no need for such subterfuge, they were all in the same club.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 09:35 | 325268 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Intresting, and I see your point: when at work or among their own kind socially, no such feigning was needed and so wasn't practiced.

Mon, 05/03/2010 - 03:52 | 328801 TK
TK's picture

A lot of the questions that were asked did not make sense in context. How can you answer a question that doesn't make sense from somebody with no understanding of how markets operate? I wouldn't suggest that nothing wrong has happened anywhere and Goldman certainly should be investigated but I just do not see how they have done anything wrong here.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:21 | 325168 aint no fortuna...
aint no fortunate son's picture

Each one of those self serving arrogant little pukes would squeal on his mother in a NY minute if he was under the gun. All they need to do is get the goods on one of them and he'll rat them all out in return for a plea. They read the papers... they know they are the most hated species on the planet at this point and will get no mercy from JQ Public if push comes to shove. 

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 09:06 | 325214 Inspector Asset
Inspector Asset's picture

Maybe we can get TD to compile a list of former Goldman partners and put them up on the site.

Those of you recently employment challenged could call former Goldman partners and convince them to start snitching on other. 

Wash their heads clean of the Whitehead principals.

Where is Fuld, Corzine, Paulson these days$

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 09:10 | 325220 Inspector Asset
Inspector Asset's picture

So true! That was very apparent in the witness Swenson.  Smirking and arragant through the entire hearing. 

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 06:57 | 325096 Mitchman
Mitchman's picture

Wonder how well Turbo Tax Timmy is sleeping at night these days?

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 06:59 | 325097 primefool
primefool's picture

probably well - mommy tucks him in and sings him to sleep.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:02 | 325098 primefool
primefool's picture

Wonder if being tucked in by Bubba will be as nice.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:03 | 325100 FischerBlack
FischerBlack's picture

So, is all of this assualt on Goldman Sachs simply a strategy to get the financial reform bills passed? Are they sending a message? 'You want to settle these charges with us without admitting or denying? Get your lobbyists the fuck out of the way and get behind this bill.'

Or are they really trying to hang someone to save their own jobs?



Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:19 | 325110 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

So, is all of this assualt on Goldman Sachs simply a strategy to get the financial reform bills passed?

Or are they really trying to hang someone to save their own jobs?

Yes and yes.


Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:59 | 325148 JohnKing
JohnKing's picture

True that. In Wall Street parlance, this is a riskless trade.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:19 | 325112 anynonmous
anynonmous's picture

It's all about November

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:09 | 325158 depression
depression's picture

Remember back 9 months ago when Congress went home to their districts and caught hell from their constituents in those crazy town hall meetings. This is an attempt to deflect attention and blame off Congress and point the spotlight (of public anger) onto those "greedy bankers".

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:08 | 325102 primefool
primefool's picture

I have some sypathy for this approach. Look the previous administartion basically trashed the country - possibly irretrievably. The new guy comes in and wants to make a genuine attempt to fix things up. The Repugs oppose anything uttered by the dems. So only way to play is by Chicago rules.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 10:57 | 325465 earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

"The new guy comes in and wants to make a genuine attempt to fix things up."

LMAO. Look at your party's majorities in the House and Senate. There is not one damn thing the Republicans can block in congress.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 12:20 | 325647 viahj
viahj's picture

Apparently you still have your head up your ass (or Obama's) if you're still playing the serf game of Dems vs Repubs. 

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:12 | 325105 jdrose1985
jdrose1985's picture

Just more circuses for the peasants to watch. And an excuse to wipe equity holders out.
"your nest egg is gone bc a rogue bank ruined everything. Now go eat your cat food."

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:19 | 325109 sweet ebony diamond
sweet ebony diamond's picture

i am not a peasant.

i am a serf.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:20 | 325113 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Are you armed?  You're no serf.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:51 | 325140 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture


I carried a pitchfork to an early tea party (I was the only one there with one) and it is a formidable thing. I walked 2 miles to get to the teaparty (I walk or run most evenings anyway) and they are hard to manage in crowds, and intimidating. I often get hassled by men. No one bothered me, at all, when I was carrying my pitch fork. Just carrying that thing taught me a lot. Open carry has it's merits. 

I am no serf. And I have more than a pitchfork. 

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 09:13 | 325223 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Love the new look MsCreant. New outfit? :>)

"Open carry has it's merits." 

Amen. I open carry once a month (a pistol, not a pitchfork) in my county to practice my right to open carry. No more, no less. I've been doing it for nearly 3 years. For the first 9 months or so, people were angry and the sheriff was always called even when I would be working in my yard. But after a while people became educated to my and their rights and to the novel concept of protecting yourself rather than being a victim waiting to be victimized.

There are now 6 others in the county who open carry, most of them more often than I. Self respect and empowerment is infectious.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 11:01 | 325471 Hulk
Hulk's picture

+ 1000. Great that you are exercising your open carry rights CD. Bravo!


Fri, 04/30/2010 - 13:10 | 325728 bbbilly1326
bbbilly1326's picture

"Self respect and empowerment is infectious."


Another way to shore up shaky self-respect:

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 09:55 | 325306 MonkeyMan
MonkeyMan's picture

Having followed your comments for some time, I have to say that this post of yours does let me down somewhat. Tea Party member - For fucks sake MsCreant, I thought you were better than that. Open carry as well - and you too CD! Shit, sometimes I don't know whether there's any side to be on....


Fri, 04/30/2010 - 10:04 | 325336 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Yes, she should be ashamed for having the temerity to assert her rights.  Imagine!  How uncouth!  She should immediately rejoin the collective, if it will have her after these transgressions.

As for me, I open carried at my most recent Tea Party event, and I was probably the only one there doing so.  NO ONE MINDED, no funny looks, no comments except from a few who noticed and openly chided themselves for not doing so themselves: "Dammit, I should have worn my Kimber."  Citizens own weapons, subjects and slaves may not.  Government serves the citizens, and not the other way around.  NEVER the other way around.  So many of us believe we have a right to bask in the glow of perfect safety provided by others.  Also perfect health care provided by others, perfect etc etc.

All I can say - morons.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 10:39 | 325408 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

The pitchfork is a nice symbol, most people get the point(s).

I "open" carried in D.C. in the 9/12/09 500,000 strong Teaparty March using a full sized holster with a flap on top.  No one could tell if I had a .45 in it or not (it was full of pro Second Amendment fliers and stickers).

Here in AZ no one really thinks twice about open carry, so many people do it.  Now any AZ citizen can carry concealed without a permit.  Second Amendment is alive and well here, Fourth Amendment is being tested.

Speaking of that, looks like 480,000 illegals living in AZ will be scattering now the the light is shining on them.  So, if you live in CA, NV, UT, NM, TX and elsewhere get ready, they are coming your way.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 11:09 | 325487 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Ca doesn't seem to mind FEDbuster...

Boogles my mind how a bankrupt state can't come to its senses....

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 11:48 | 325559 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

I would like to see AZ run a no questions asked, one way bus rides to LA from our State Capital lawn.  Just hop on board, no i.d., no cost bus ride to the City of Angels.  Run the buses 24/7 for the month of May.  Drop them all off in front of the LA City Hall building.  The libtards in CA can set up a Welcome Wagon center for them.

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 19:35 | 326155 Silvarouvres
Silvarouvres's picture

Reading this made me realize how quickly my view changed over the last 1-2 years. I'm in Europe, lightyears away from the US-constitution, and I used to regard the different perspective to firearms from within the US from an, admittedly, condescending point of view. And I had several statistics to back me up in case I got caught up in 2nd thoughts...

long story short, I think I was wrong.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 20:43 | 326435 velobabe
velobabe's picture

you forgot CO.......colorful colorado.

new mexico, joke, it is just mexico.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 14:16 | 325859 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Hi Monkey Man,

I asserted it was an early one for a reason. I no longer go to them. I found a bunch of people standing around, listening to speeches, waiting to be led. I was not seeing anybody willing to tell the truth nor actually do anything. I heckled a speaker who was telling us to complain to congress. I yelled from the audience, "They don't listen." He kept on with instructions on how to do it. I yelled, "They didn't listen, they did the bailouts, now what?" I think I weirded them out. Had several young men come up to me and say things like they liked my pitch fork, wished they had something like that, or much more to the point, "That's more like it." You could see the restlessness in them compared to the crowd, they want to rock, these old fogies wanted to call their senators.

I still have hope when I see SWRichmond and others here posting, but when Sara Palin tried to get the party to align with her, well, lets just say I was let down and do not feel like I have a side to be on either. But I do, and so do you, we can be on the side of integrity, sustainability, responsibility, and we can have each others' backs.

I do not open carry, I carry concealed. I don't always because I can't carry where I work. My hubby carries so I get lazy with it some. I have to go now, but the gun thing opened my eyes to whole bunch of issues surrounding responsibility that I had never considered before. To make it short, being armed means you are not expecting others to take care of you. I have training and a permit.

Thanks for asking MonkeyMan.


Fri, 04/30/2010 - 20:47 | 326437 velobabe
velobabe's picture

your are a very courageous sister, thanks†

Mon, 05/03/2010 - 07:54 | 328867 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture


On the chance you'll be checking older posts, a few words about open carry.  In 1985 the DOJ released the results of a study they'd commissioned, titled "The Armed Criminalin America: A Survey of Incarcerated Felons."  Some relevant facts from that study are reported here:

"Fifty-six percent of the felons surveyed agreed that "A criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun;" 74% agreed that "One reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot."

A 57% majority agreed that "Most criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police." In asking felons what they personally thought about while committing crimes, 34% indicated that they thought about getting "shot at by police" or "shot by victim."

When asked whether they agreed with this statement: " A smart criminal tries to find out if his potential victim is armed," 81% either agreed or agreed strongly.  Why not answer the question for them right up front?  "I'm armed, go f*ck with someone else."


Fri, 04/30/2010 - 10:51 | 325448 seventree
seventree's picture

Open carry has it's merits. 

Just don't get caught with a concealed pitchfork.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:24 | 325117 primefool
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The overall game plan is slowing coming into view. Get all competing currencies downgraded - leaving only the US Dollar. At that point throw Moodys and S&P under the bus . Spend a few Trillion dollars on any damn thing we want - while the rest of the hapless world is trying various "austerity" programs. We win - again.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:28 | 325119 marginnayan
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This should be followed by launching of criminal investigations against Goldman by countries in Europe and Asia.

Let the fun begin. This should mark the beginning of the end of Goldman Sachs.




Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:31 | 325121 primefool
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Yeah OK I have to admit it will be fun. But the problem is at the end of the day The Levins of the world will be more powerful. And I'll take a Blanfein over a Levin any day. Those politicians are truly a scary bunch. Not particularly smart - no intentions of getting smarter - just expect to get what they want by bullying ( all this applies to their approach to the rest of the world as well). If you cant make a coherent argument - why just raise your voice - and if that does'nt work - well - send in the marines.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:29 | 325120 Waterfallsparkles
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Could be a backdoor way to get to the FED.  I am sure they will want all E-Mails, letters and Meeting with reference to AIG payout.

Trading on the day of the Hearings was very suspicious.  Like a veiled Threat against Government intervention into their Business Model. 

GS has become a Monopoly which controls Trading in the Market and influence in Washington.  They have become a National Threat to our National Financial Security.  Just look what they did to Greece and their Financial Security.

They in my opinion caused the Economic Crash which caused their Competitors to be sold for pennies on the Dollar or Killed.  They need to be eliminated in any way possible.  Our National Financial Freedom depend on it.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:40 | 325127 LeBalance
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Posts Trial Statement by the GS Defense:

"After this arduous last 18 months, it is outstanding that our clients have been fully exonerated.  Every angle and possibility was carefully examined by the prosecution and it was found that at no time did our clients commit a criminal act.  We, at Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe, stand once again in awe of the American Justice System and its uncanny ability to set things right.  If I may be so bold, I think these verdicts bring light not just to Goldman Sachs specifically, but to the larger picture of: "Was there or wasn't there untoward conduct in the Investment Banking business?"  This verdict send a vote of confidence to this business sector and an all-clear, not just to the investors of the United States but the world."

....Ahhhh the smell of napalm in the morning, smells like victory.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:55 | 325143 ambrosiac
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Concurring opinion by the legendary firm  Sue, Grabbit and Runne

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 13:16 | 325741 Strider52
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  Also concurred by the law firm of Moovto, Paraguay, and Quick.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:41 | 325129 George Costanza
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Plain and simple, Wall Streeters make too much money and have too much power. Their jobs just aren't that complicated or difficult, and they don't add that much value to our economy and society to warrant their pay scales.   And if you bring up Atheletes and Actors pay - I think they contribute more to society.   Reign in Wall Street power and pay.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:51 | 325141 primefool
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Agree - we should also gut/ban or tax to death - the advertising industry, consulting, accountants, lawyers - and Iam sure I can think of a lot more. No social value to these industries. Put them all in blue tunics and make them earn an honest living working the fields . I personally think it would be a great leap forward.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:33 | 325179 Bringin It
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we should also gut/ban or tax to death - the advertising industry, consulting, accountants, lawyers - and Iam sure I can think of a lot more. No social value to these industries.

Clearly a necessary reform PF.  Who would junk this?

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 10:47 | 325442 earnyermoney
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" I am sure I can think of a lot more..."


Except your own means of employment.

Mon, 05/03/2010 - 03:56 | 328802 TK
TK's picture

How about anyone who wears glasses?

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:41 | 325130 Freewheelin Franklin
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My fear is that Goldman has a little black, Heidi Fleiss type book. And a few keys to closets with some very large skeletons. Many of those closets belonging to the very people who were grilling them in the hearing. All I would like for the government to do, is open the door and get out of the way. Sort of like Wal-Mart on Black Friday. Let the piranhas devour the Giant Vampire Squid once and for all.



Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:55 | 325199 stoverny
stoverny's picture

Like the little black book they had on Spitzer. Yeah you can bet on it.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 10:43 | 325428 earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

No doubt.

Kind of reminds me of those old western movies I saw as a kid. Current scene has a bunch of seedy bandits eyeing each other at the poker table while consuming large quantities of whisky. Whose gonna make the first move ...

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:43 | 325131 goldfreak
Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:05 | 325155 Debtless
Debtless's picture


Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:44 | 325133 MsCreant
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Tyler Durden,

This is probably not all they would like it to appear to be. We need some convictions and some sociopaths in jail cells. Never-the-less, this is a triumph for Zero Hedge. If one of the Tyler's really was busted for teeny, tiny, insider trading while this shit was going on, and he damn well knew it, and decided to come after the bastards, this has to be a sweet moment. 

It is possible that this would have happened without Zero Hedge, but it is obvious, if you look around the blogosphere that you have been a key part of bringing this to a head this soon (which still took too fucking long).

I need to see more, lets not let up, but from the bottom of my pissed off heart--->Thanks Tyler Durden. This country needs heroes and you are one of them.

Beautiful stuff, all-a-yous.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:04 | 325154 ambrosiac
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I second that.


c.f.  splinters vs. logs in one's eye.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 07:57 | 325145 THE DORK OF CORK
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A typical defence coming out of the Goldman alumni is that it is not fair to target one firm over the others.

Previously Goldman would be the first to state that life is not fair.

Life is not fair for all those suckers and fools thrown on the street so why offer this pathetic defence.

I say enough.

Let those vampires bleed their own blood.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:01 | 325151 Sqworl
Sqworl's picture

Not fair???  I guess they forgot shorting all the other banks into failure!  What goes around comes around..its just the way of the circle of hell...:-)

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:01 | 325152 primefool
primefool's picture

Also poets, philosophers, mathematicians ( unless is has an immediate social application). No need for these parasites. Scientists, stand-up comics, porn stars ( ok with some exceptions) - add zero social value. It woul dbe best - comrades - to use valuable proime time TV to run documentaries on birth control and agricultural techniques.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:07 | 325156 Bringin It
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OverMed, what does Green Peace /Trustifarians have to do with "Even more bullish: Another oil rig will blow up and America will wake up and see that maybe the first one wasn't an accident."

Which to the Pan_man's credit, is a rather weighty thought.  Weighty in that it is loaded with implications. 





Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:10 | 325159 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

eco terrorism?? And an observation of those deeply committed to the modern eco movement ..who appear to be totally unhinged.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:08 | 325157 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

Forget the criminal probe on Goldman and start reforming Wall Street and the broader financial sector. Until you do that, all the criminal probes in the world won't prevent another crisis.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 09:11 | 325224 seventree
seventree's picture

All this theatre is a necessary part of that goal. Regardless of whether any civil or criminal investigations bear fruit, the media circus surrounding them has started and will now run its course. For the first time the public (outside of "fringe blogs") is being exposed to the idea that an oversized "financial services sector" displacing productive economic activity is detrimental to US and global economic health. And a circus is necessary; otherwise the whole subject is too boring for serious MSM coverage.

I don't concentrate too much on the details of these announcements; they are just tremors preceding a major tectonic realignment. Or so I hope.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 10:35 | 325404 earnyermoney
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I have to disagree with you on the power of criminal probes. If the DOJ indicts and convicts the likes of Llyod Blankfein, Dick Fuld and Ken Lewis people on Wall Street will find some respect for current regulations for fear of the law.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:29 | 325176 TraderMark
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Don't forget Dick Fuld, apparently he bold face lied under oath.  Oligarchs unite!

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:35 | 325177 Apocalypse Now
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Cramer just said something honest, it was covered on the Daily Show.  He outlined that viewers should buy the big bank stocks because the financial reform bill was going to benefit them - despite what the media might state. 

The readers of this site already know that the health care bill was written by the healthcare and pharmaceutical company lobbyists.  Guess what?  The financial reform bill was written by the banks to gain even more power through the federal reserve (which is a private bank in collusion with the big banks).  The bill lacks the reinstatement of glass steigel as well as any enforcement power.

What they tell the people and what they do are two opposite things.  Health care = raise taxes for four years while telling the public to be excited they are getting health care coverage while charging them higher taxes.  Financial reform bill = unlimited bailouts, no fed audit, and more oversight at the federal reserve (part of their cabal).  Charging GS is a dog and pony show to push the toothless financial reform bill through without debate on real reform to expedite the legislation to preclude any real reform.  If the people took their time with this one, we could craft language that would put wall street in its place.

Beware bills that have populist names, the patriot act was similar - there was nothing patriotic about it and in fact it was the opposite with elements that had to be knocked out by the judiciary because they were unconstitutional.

This is all theatre, and the leaking of Fab's emails is actually a great psychological move so that the public can focus their anger at one individual (a French Man no less as an isolated incident - let's rename our french fries to freedom fries again!) instead of the broader GS. 

Yes, they are that smart and diabolical.  I hope the republicans have the resolve to block and strengthen the language to reinstate glass-steigel and avoid unlimited bailouts.  It would be political suicide to block for the benefit of Goldman - it is worse, it is treason.  It would be equally treasonous to pass a bill that gives more power to the bankers  - it must be changed and real financial reform needs to be passed.  If it is not, there is no hope, you can rest assured the bankers will everything they don't already own.

The whole world including all Americans is in support of real reform.  Without it the whole system will crash because people are waking up to the real corruption in washington.  You can't look up to your representatives if they are bowing to foreign dignitaries and lobbyistst with their hands out looking for bribes.  The whole world is in support of getting this right except for perhaps Dimon, Blankfein, and Buffet.  This is a Mr. Smith Goes To Washington Moment.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:45 | 325185 docj
docj's picture

Orange Jumpsuits, bitches!

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:46 | 325186 digalert
digalert's picture

Regarding Holder, a probe is far different than filing charges.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:53 | 325193 Mitchman
Mitchman's picture

If I remember correctly what shut down Arthrur Andersen was the criminal indicted in the Enron matter.  Andersen was never convucted in court but closed its doors merely on the indictment.  Can the same thing happen here?

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 09:11 | 325225 plocequ1
plocequ1's picture

Thats great. Very exciting.. By the way,  Does anyone here like pancakes? Im a Waffle man myself

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 13:44 | 325796 OdinsBeard
OdinsBeard's picture

It's the talkie toaster! ;)

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 09:17 | 325233 seventree
seventree's picture

All this theatre represents tentative steps toward a greater goal. Regardless of whether any civil or criminal investigations bear fruit, the media circus surrounding them has started and will now run its course. For the first time the public (outside of "fringe blogs") is being exposed to the idea that an oversized "financial services sector" displacing productive economic activity is detrimental to US and global economic health. And a circus is necessary; otherwise the whole subject is too boring for serious MSM coverage.

I don't concentrate too much on the details of these announcements; they are just tremors preceding a major tectonic realignment. Or so I hope.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 10:23 | 325374 earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

In my opinion, the only thing that is going to restore "trust" to the system are criminal indictments of all guilty parties in the public and private sector. Otherwise; these "reforms" are cynical attepts to appease the sheeple before the elections this fall.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 09:46 | 325292 nicholforest
nicholforest's picture

Is a long overdue Pecora next?

"Legal chicanery and pitch darkness were the banker's stoutest allies" - Ferdinand Pecora.

So, no change there then.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 09:54 | 325313 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Holder -- That Guy Show Up to Work, Yet??

Empty suit of the year award. Holder reminds me of that country band:

"Asleep at the Wheel"

That would make Holder's theme song:

"Blowin' Like a Bandit"

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 09:58 | 325322 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Let's suppose for a moment that this actually goes somewhere ... think of the damage that thousands of Goldman Alumni can inflict on the broader society if they are loosed on thousands of new paths.  Are we really sure we want this?

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 11:01 | 325472 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Get out your white makeup and Kimono's

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 11:31 | 325529 Madhouse
Madhouse's picture

GS pays back the $12 billion and everything will be nice nice again. When they do cry Uncle, they will make some of that back on the GS stock rebound as their traders will have known that a deal was coming (say they pay this over 5 years). Understand that these people are addicted to money in almost a pathological sense and will shove prudence aside for ST profit, hence their problems right now. The firm will survive and continue to make profits but importantly the great unjustice on the $12 billion will have been corrected, the taxpayer will win and these people will have a behavioral leash on for, oh, at least a couple of years until they all forget about it and GS is busy finding the next weakness in the flank..



Fri, 04/30/2010 - 14:57 | 325933 Common_Cents22
Common_Cents22's picture

Govt will take down GS like it took down Big Tobacco.  Govt will extract a few billion here, a few billion there and soon it'll add up to some real money.  Payola for govt mafia "protection".   Our elected elites will get the populist recognition on taking on evil wall street.

Whatever happened to all that big tobacco billions?  did it ever make it to a no smoking campaign or did it end up in the general funds?   I guess the elected elite needed the money.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 16:01 | 326018 Chump
Chump's picture



Sat, 05/01/2010 - 00:37 | 326627 chindit13
chindit13's picture

A week or two ago Goldman might have been able to bluff and let this whole thing blow over.  Now, it ain't gonna happen.

The kiss of death, in retrospect, will be Dick Bove's recommendation, as such recommendations were the eulogies for Citi, LEH, and just about anyone else Bove recommended. (By the way, the beard is merely a disguise so that he can walk around the streets of America untaunted on his time off.)

This will not go away.  Somebody (other than ZH'ers) wants squid blood in the water.  Surprising has been how poorly---considering how smart they all think they are---GS has handled this from a PR perspective.  Each step has been a misstep, each word more damning than the last, each utterance an even more clear indication that the firm's arrogance knows no bounds and it is totally lacking in the ability to self-reflect.

People like Swenson actually think they should be praised for hosing their customers, while at the same time using their "market making function" as the rationale for why they deserve perpetual taxpayer bailouts.

One or the other, gentlemen (a generous use of the word).  Actually, hose them all you want, but do it on your own dime.

If there is anyone within the walls of 85 Broad or 200 West with an iota of integrity (this is a capital, bold, 72-point IF), his or her resume is going out the door right now, and his grandmother's account is long GS puts.

There'll be a break-up or buyout or maybe a Drexel Burnham moment;  the GS we knew in January will not exist in December.

Goldie, we hardly knew ye.


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