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Daniel Ellsberg: “Secrets ... Can Be Kept Reliably ... For Decades … Even Though They Are Known to THOUSANDS of Insiders”
Judges, prosecutors and journalists all know that collusion happens every day. As I noted last year:
Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme was a conspiracy. The heads of Enron were found guilty of conspiracy, as was the head of Adelphia. Numerous lower-level government officials have been found guilty of conspiracy. See this, this, this, this and this.
Time Magazine's financial columnist Justin Fox writes:
Some financial market conspiracies are real ...
Most good investigative reporters are conspiracy theorists, by the way.
Indeed, conspiracies are so common that judges are trained to look at conspiracy allegations as just another legal claim to be disproven or proven by the evidence.
As I pointed out in 2009:
Federal and all 50 state's codes include specific statutes addressing conspiracy, and providing the punishment for people who commit conspiracies.
***
Conspiracy
is a very well-recognized crime in American law, taught to every
first-year law school student as part of their basic curriculum.
Telling a judge that someone has a "conspiracy theory" would be like
telling him that someone is claiming that he trespassed on their
property, or committed assault, or stole his car. It is a fundamental
legal concept.
Obviously, many
conspiracy allegations are false (if you see a judge at a dinner
party, ask him to tell you some of the crazy conspiracy allegations
which were made in his court). Obviously, people will
either win or lose in court depending on whether or not they can prove
their claim with the available evidence. But not all allegations of trespass, assault, or theft are true, either.
Proving
a claim of conspiracy is no different from proving any other legal
claim, and the mere label "conspiracy" is taken no less seriously by
judges.
Indeed, even Obama's information tzar - who advocates using the power of the state to shut down talk of conspiracies - admits:
Some
conspiracy theories, under our definition, have turned out to be true
... The Watergate hotel room used by Democratic National Committee was,
in fact, bugged by Republican officials, operating at the behest of
the White House. In the 1950s, the CIA did, in fact, administer LSD and
related drugs under Project MKULTRA, in an effort to investigate the
possibility of 'mind control.'” [This post isn't going down the rabbit hole of mind control.]
Can't Hide It
Those
accusing Goldman Sachs, Dick Cheney or some other powerful people of
conspiring to enrich their interests are often met with the argument
that "someone would have spilled the beans" if there had really been a
conspiracy.
But famed whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg explains:
It
is a commonplace that "you can't keep secrets in Washington" or "in a
democracy, no matter how sensitive the secret, you're likely to read
it the next day in the New York Times." These truisms are flatly
false. They are in fact cover stories, ways of flattering and
misleading journalists and their readers, part of the process of
keeping secrets well. Of course eventually many secrets do get out
that wouldn't in a fully totalitarian society. But the fact is that
the overwhelming majority of secrets do not leak to the American
public. This is true even when the information withheld is well known
to an enemy and when it is clearly essential to the functioning of the
congressional war power and to any democratic control of foreign
policy. The reality unknown to the public and to most members of
Congress and the press is that secrets
that would be of the greatest import to many of them can be kept from
them reliably for decades by the executive branch, even though they
are known to thousands of insiders.
History proves Ellsberg right. For example:
- One hundred and thirty thousand (130,000) people from the U.S., UK and Canada worked on the Manhattan Project. But it was kept secret for years
- A BBC documentary shows that:
There
was "a planned coup in the USA in 1933 by a group of right-wing
American businessmen . . . . The coup was aimed at toppling President
Franklin D Roosevelt with the help of half-a-million war veterans. The
plotters, who were alleged to involve some of the most famous families
in America, (owners of Heinz, Birds Eye, Goodtea, Maxwell Hse &
George Bush’s Grandfather, Prescott) believed that their country should
adopt the policies of Hitler and Mussolini to beat the great
depression"Moreover, "the tycoons told General Butler the American people would accept the new government because they controlled all the newspapers."
Have you ever heard of this conspiracy before? It was certainly a
very large one. And if the conspirators controlled the newspapers then, how much worse is it today with media consolidation?
- 7 out of the 8 giant, money center banks went bankrupt in the 1980's during the "Latin American Crisis", and the government's response was to cover up
their insolvency. That's a cover up lasting several decades. The
government is also working to cover up the causes and severity of the financial crisis which started in 2008
- Governments have been covering up nuclear meltdowns for fifty years to protect the nuclear industry. Governments have colluded to cover up the severity of numerous environmental accidents (and see this). For many years, Texas officials intentionally under-reported the amount of radiation in drinking water to avoid having to report violations
- The government's spying on Americans began before 9/11 (confirmed here and here. And see this.) But the public didn't learn about it until many years later. Indeed, the the New York Times delayed the story so that it would not affect the outcome of the 2004 presidential election
- The decision to launch the Iraq war was made before 9/11. Indeed, former CIA director George Tenet said that the White House wanted to invade Iraq long before 9/11, and inserted "crap" in its justifications for invading Iraq. Former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill - who sat on the National Security Council - also says that Bush planned the Iraq war before 9/11. And top British officials say that the U.S. discussed Iraq regime change one month after Bush took office. Dick Cheney apparently even made Iraqi's oil fields a national security priority before 9/11. And it has now been shown that a handful of people
were responsible for willfully ignoring the evidence that Iraq lacked
weapons of mass destruction. These facts have only been publicly
disclosed recently
These examples show that it is possible to keep conspiracies secret for a long time, without anyone "spilling the beans".
Discipline
To
anyone who knows how covert military operations work, it is obvious
that segmentation on a "need-to-know basis", along with deference to
command hierarchy, means that a couple of top dogs can call the shots
and most people helping won't even know the big picture.
Moreover,
those who think that co-conspirators will brag about their deeds are
forget that people in the military or intelligence or who have huge
sums of money on the line can be very disciplined. They are not likely
to go to the bar and spill the beans like a down-on-their-luck,
second-rate alcoholic robber might do.
Finally, people who carry
out covert operations may do so for ideological reasons -- believing
that the "ends justify the means". Never underestimate the conviction
of an idealogue.
"All Wars Are Based on Propaganda"
Tom Brokaw notes:
All wars are based on propaganda.
There are numerous examples, such as dressing corpses in fake uniforms and planting false intelligence on them to mislead enemies.
In addition, governments from around the world have admitted to
false flag terror. In all of these cases, more than a handful of
people were involved in planning, funding and carrying out the
attacks. And yet no one spilled the beans or – if someone did – they
were not believed.
For example:
- The CIA admits
that it hired Iranians in the 1950's to pose as Communists and stage
bombings in Iran in order to turn the country against its
democratically-elected prime minister
- Israel admits
that an Israeli terrorist cell operating in Egypt planted bombs in
several buildings, including U.S. diplomatic facilities, then left
behind "evidence" implicating the Arabs as the culprits (one of the
bombs detonated prematurely, allowing the Egyptians to identify the
bombers, and several of the Israelis later confessed) (and see this and this)
- The former Italian Prime Minister, an Italian judge, and the former head of Italian counterintelligence admit that NATO,
with the help of the Pentagon and CIA, carried out terror bombings
in Italy and other European countries in the 1950s and blamed the
communists, in order to rally people’s support for their governments in
Europe in their fight against communism. As one participant in this formerly-secret program stated: "You
had to attack civilians, people, women, children, innocent people,
unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was
quite simple. They were supposed to force these people, the Italian
public, to turn to the state to ask for greater security" (and see this)(Italy and other European countries subject to the terror campaign had joined NATO before the bombings occurred)
- As admitted by
the U.S. government, recently declassified documents show that in
the 1960's, the American Joint Chiefs of Staff signed off on a plan
to blow up AMERICAN airplanes (using an elaborate plan involving the switching of airplanes), and also to commit terrorist acts on American soil, and then to blame it on the Cubans in order to justify an invasion of Cuba. See the following ABC news report; the official documents; and watch this interview with
the former Washington Investigative Producer for ABC's World News
Tonight with Peter Jennings. Official State Department documents show
that - only nine months before - the head of the Joint Chiefs of
Staff and other high-level officials discussed blowing up a consulate in the Dominican Republic in order to justify an invasion of that country. (While
the Joint Chiefs of Staff pushed as a serious proposal for Operation
Northwoods to be carried out, cooler heads fortunately prevailed;
President Kennedy or his Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara
apparently vetoed the plan)
- The South African Truth and Reconciliation Council found
that, in 1989, the Civil Cooperation Bureau (a covert branch of the
South African Defense Force) approached an explosives expert and
asked him "to participate in an operation aimed at discrediting
the ANC [the African National Congress] by bombing the police vehicle
of the investigating officer into the murder incident", thus
framing the ANC for the bombing
- An Algerian diplomat and several officers in the Algerian army admit
that, in the 1990s, the Algerian army frequently massacred Algerian
civilians and then blamed Islamic militants for the killings (and see
this video; and Agence France-Presse, 9/27/2002, French Court Dismisses Algerian Defamation Suit Against Author)
- Former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Hugh Shelton says that a Clinton cabinet member proposed letting Saddam kill an American pilot as a pretext for war in Iraq (and see this)
- According to the Washington Post, Indonesian police admit that
the Indonesian military killed American teachers in Papua in 2002
and blamed the murders on a Papuan separatist group in order to get
that group listed as a terrorist organization.
- The well-respected former Indonesian president also admits that the government probably had a role in the Bali bombings
- As reported by BBC, the New York Times, and Associated Press, Macedonian officials admit
that the government murdered 7 innocent immigrants in cold blood and
pretended that they were Al Qaeda soldiers attempting to assassinate
Macedonian police, in order to join the "war on terror".
- Former Department of Justice lawyer John Yoo suggested
in 2005 that the US should go on the offensive against al-Qaeda,
having “our intelligence agencies create a false terrorist
organization. It could have its own websites, recruitment centers,
training camps, and fundraising operations. It could launch fake
terrorist operations and claim credit for real terrorist strikes,
helping to sow confusion within al-Qaeda’s ranks, causing operatives to
doubt others’ identities and to question the validity of
communications.”
- United Press International reported in June 2005:
U.S.
intelligence officers are reporting that some of the insurgents in
Iraq are using recent-model Beretta 92 pistols, but the pistols seem
to have had their serial numbers erased. The numbers do not appear to
have been physically removed; the pistols seem to have come off a
production line without any serial numbers. Analysts suggest the lack
of serial numbers indicates that the weapons were intended for
intelligence operations or terrorist cells with substantial government
backing. Analysts speculate that these guns are probably from either
Mossad or the CIA. Analysts
speculate that agent provocateurs may be using the untraceable weapons
even as U.S. authorities use insurgent attacks against civilians as
evidence of the illegitimacy of the resistance.
- Quebec police admitted that, in 2007, thugs carrying rocks to a peaceful protest were actually undercover Quebec police officers
- At the G20 protests in London in 2009, a British member of parliament saw plain clothes police officers attempting to incite the crowd to violence
- There are many other instances of false flag attacks used throughout history proven by the historical evidence. See this, this and this.
In
summary, the claim that conspiracies couldn't have happened or else we
would have known when someone bragged about their deeds completely
false.
Conspiracies are generally not discovered unless the facts are aggressively investigated and prosecuted.
»
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"GW, you pathetic fool"
That was an awesome bit of theatrics! Are you a .gov sock puppet?
My guess is that he is a faithful, patriotic voter type who foams at the mouth at the mere suggestion of anything that doesn't fit into his belief system.
Probably has a truck covered in ribbon magnets and flag decals.
Heh. That or the other type: fading Obama stickers over Bush/Cheney joke stickers.
Pick a team, or you must not be patriotic.
WHY DO MOST AMERICANS KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THESE ISSUES?
http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/history/zionism/news.php?q=13063...
About the Writer: Alan Sabrosky (Ph.D., University of Michigan) is a writer and consultant specializing in national and international security affairs. In December 1988, he received the Superior Civilian Service Award after more than five years of service at the U.S. Army War College as Director of Studies, Strategic Studies Institute, and holder of the General of the Army Douglas MacArthur Chair of Research. He is listed in WHO’S WHO IN THE EAST (23rd ed.). A Marine Corps Vietnam veteran and a 1986 graduate of the U.S. Army War College, Dr. Sabrosky’s teaching and research appointments have included the United States Military Academy, the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), Middlebury College and Catholic University; while in government service, he held concurrent adjunct professorships at Georgetown University and the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS). Dr. Sabrosky has lectured widely on defense and foreign affairs in the United States and abroad. You can email Dr. Alan Sabrosky at: docbrosk@comcast.net
Dr Alan Sabrosky (Ph.D, University of Michigan), a ten-year US Marine Corps veteran and a 1986 graduate of the US Army War College.
March 10, 2011
"Are you saying...?"
bubba, it's standard operating procedure.
and as for "your country": it's too big. it's an empire domestically as well as internationally. i'm guessing you aren't one of the imperialists. you're just one of their many, ordinary subjects. you are their subject, they are your masters. why would you be loyal to that? the only reasonable form of patriotism is to work tirelessy for the moral improvement of your own society. it doesn't make sense to root for your own imperial masters in their conquests, except perhaps somewhere in the reptilian brain, as they say.
Interesting factoid re: any possible collusion between Bernanke and Blankfein--
Bernanke and Blankfein were not only Harvard classmates ('75), but were also residents of Winthrop House for three years. Have they known each other since college?
CIABS, does the "sociology of knowledge" distinguish between those who perpetuate evil and those who cover up the truth?
as i use the term (or "the social psychology of knowledge"), it refers primarily to the majority of people who are not the high-level perpetrators. it is true that many more people participate in cover-ups than in the original plots. most of those who are "drafted" into a cover-up quickly grasp what happened, and what will happen to them if they don't cooperate. the behavior of cover-up participants who were not the primary perpetrators is very revealing about the social psychology of knowledge. good point.
This was the dilemma of the subjects of Stanley Milgram's experiments in particular. What constitutes a high-level perpetrator, and when can individuals be blamed rather than society? Once we know, then we can decide whether people are doing evil things, whether they should be punished, and how.
it's hard to figure out how guilty a person is for suppressing the painful knowledge that is indicated by the evidence. we are limited intellectual and emotional creatures. ordinary human psychology plays a large role in the power structure. elite behaviors and methods arise out of ordinary human weaknesses: they are adapted to exploit them.
Guilt depends on your goals, and how much you correlate guiltiness with evil, law-breaking and dishonesty. Different belief systems will yield different answers. What's a human weakness? If that which leads to elite behaviors and methods is a weakness, then what is a strength?
elite behaviors prey on the weaknesses of ordinary people. but most elites have their own psychological weaknesses, often pathological, which motivate them to overcome any and all of their social weaknesses. by this i mean any relationships in which others wield power over them. in other words, they are pathologically hungry for power. it's not the weaknesses of ordinary people that lead to elite behaviors, it's that elite behavior is adapted to the weaknesses of ordinary people so as to exploit them.
a prominent weakness of ordinary people is the one that this post deals with, namely the tendency to ignore evidence and to believe what makes you feel good or what keeps you on good terms with your family, friends, and colleagues. elites don't ignore evidence, and they don't want to believe things that aren't true, because knowledge is power, and power is all they care about. ordinary people disempower themselves by participating in the social psychology of knowledge. elites use the social psychology of knowledge against the public.
p.s.: what is a strength? good question. it seems to me that there is moral strength and immoral strength.
It's an interesting idea that elites are fundamentally different from ordinary people in regard to social and psychological weakness. Namely, that elites make up for psychological weakness by exploiting the social weakness of commoners. This is different than the notion that the elites and commoners are both fundamentally selfish, and that the success of elites is due to a combination of luck, privilege, and good genetics. Maybe someone will get a few Rockefellers and Rothschilds into an fMRI and find out.
An fMRI wouldn't tell you anything, as their brains work the same.
The difference between those in power and the powerless is that, while both work toward self-satisfaction, the elites also incorporate group-satisfaction in their thinking.
The overriding quality is that the group and its overall motivations are considered alongside the self. It is much easier to do when there is a lot of money, a lot of leisure time and complete control over the houses of power and the media.
The little man spends much of his time working for the man and trying to relax about it, whereas the big man spends much of his time coordinating within the group on how to keep it that way.
I suspect an fMRI would show plenty of differences, and that their brains are not the same. Trade-offs between group and individual satisfaction are readily measurable. It's not just fMRI, or individual differences. Patterns of risk taking and social behavior vary day-to-day within an individual. See this and this.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19139402
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18413617
I wish I were smart enough to embed links.I think this thing has rich-text capability, so you should be able to use and html code. Let me dust that off and try it right quick...
Oh, well, that didn't work.
_______
Anyways, the differences you'll find would not necessarily be in the chemical pathways used in brain operation, as would be seen on an fMRI. Instead, it is more likely that you would see subtle differences in brain and body mapping.
I read a book recently on this subject and it was quite fascinating.
It is called The Body Has A Mind Of Its Own by Blakeslee(s):
http://www.amazon.com/Body-Has-Mind-Its-Own/dp/0812975278/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1306378147&sr=1-1
It basically tells how one's body is mapped onto the surface of the brain and how our bodymap perception can partially control our behaviour. For instance, there was an experiment with an anorexic woman who had trouble drawing a fingered pattern blind-folded. She just couldn't do it. So, they put her in a catsuit (like you find at a lingerie store...), a tight-fitting suit that she wore almost constantly. Not only was she able, after some time, to better reproduce the fingered patterns blind-folded but she also gained weight and held a much more healthy body image.
The mention of successful traders having a long digit may be indicative of just such a concept, in that the extra-long digit would coincide with another pattern of their psychological make-up that would inherently make them better traders.
The book is like eleven bucks. Quite worth it.
:D
________
Addo:
Dert! Forgot my main point. TPTB are socially cohesive and basically identical in brain function to the little guy. It's a social and cultural thing, not a physical thing.
fMRI measures differences in blood oxygenation levels, not direct differences in chemical pathways. In the language of the brain and body mapping you describe, fMRI could measure a spatial map of the skin, for example. An object moving from one point to another along the skin will evoke an fMRI signal in some part of the brain. After observing the brain for some time, the fMRI observer could predict where the object was moved along the skin by looking at the BOLD signal. You can also measure the reaction of people to images, videos, questions, etc. These measures often correlate with the anatomical size of the brain region used to process this information, particularly in experts vs ordinary people. Point is, there are most certainly physical differences in the brain structure and function of ordinary people (in these experiments, usually undergraduates) and people who are elite at anything. It's social, cultural, and physical.
No. Not really. I'm an MRI tech, so you know. :D Hemoglobin levels is not what I mean. Perhaps we can save the scientific discussion for another time?
What I am talking about is a region on the outside of the brain that corresponds to one's body-map perception. It is actually quite similar to reflexology, only this time, it's for real.
Dr. Wilder Penfield was the pioneer in this area. From Wikipedia:
"This technique also allowed him to create maps of the sensory and motor cortices of the brain (see cortical homunculus) showing their connections to the various limbs and organs of the body. These maps are still used today, practically unaltered. Along with Herbert Jasper, he published this work in 1951 (2nd ed., 1954) as the landmark Epilepsy and the Functional Anatomy of the Human Brain. This work contributed a great deal to understanding the lateralization of brain function. Penfield's maps showed considerable overlap between regions (i.e. the motor region controlling muscles in the hand sometimes also controlled muscles in the upper arm and shoulder) a feature which he put down to individual variation in brain size and localisation; we now know that this is due to the fractured somatotropy of the motor cortex."
Basically how he did it was to remove the skull and stick an electronic probe onto the patient's brain. When he did that, people felt sensations in specific areas of the body. Eventually, he and his partner were able to construct specific maps of our perceptions.
So, this has nothing to do with blood flow and chemical-neural pathways. These are universal body maps on the cortex of the brain and have nothing really to do with brain function. They have, instead, to do with body perception. Since we all have slightly different maps and slightly different perceptions of our bodies, we are all different in both physical and mental ability.
Body map perception probably has more to do with "personality" than the nature v. nurture argument and certainly more than blood-flow specific changes, in my opinion. Click on the "cortical homunculus" link and you can see a picture of what our body-maps seem to us normally.
"the sociology of knowledge" normally refers to something a bit different, but there are clear patterns to the social psychology of knowledge. most people conform to those patterns, and their "knowledge" keeps them safe from ridicule, exclusion, and so on. but it isn't knowledge unless it corresponds to things that are true. if you let the social psychology of knowledge determine what you are willing and unwilling to believe, then truth is not your criterion, and your beliefs are in fact instruments by which you accomplish your psychological and/or social objectives, including self-soothing. most people simply believe what they want to believe.
there is no dividing line between who is inside and who is outside. the more of the truth you know, the more inside you are, so long as you survive. real knowledge can imperil your survival. the truth (as i see it) is that very large-scale evil deeds are done on a regular basis, and more than a small handful of people know who did them and how. usually, as soon as someone begins to go "inside," he or she knows not to spread the information to anyone who doesn't need it. that need is based on the operational imperatives of the higher-ups. the public is totally devalued, and public discourse about high-level malfeasance (to put it mildly) is to be obfuscated and neutralized, often very artfully. the last thing that any insider wants to do is to reveal the truth to the public.
and finally, cover-ups do not have expiration dates. aggressive cover-ups go on, and on. this is due in part to the generational continuity among the evil-doers. it never becomes "safe" to let it all hang out, now that the perpetrators are dead. their sons and grandsons are not only undead but might be at the height of their powers as we speak.
GW,
I DID answer - I am loyal to my country. That's it. And the truth. YEt - you hide behind a moniker because ou are too afraid of the consequences of putting your real name to all the BS you spew. PAthetic cowardly traitor
Dude I haven't read a comment of yours with any content yet. I pray you add more value to society than you do to this blog.
"It is not the function of our government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error"
– United States Supreme Court decision in American Communications Association v. Douds
"To stand in silence when they should be protesting makes cowards out of men."
- Abraham Lincoln
"Those who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Ben Franklin
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
- Thomas Jefferson
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
-Thomas Jefferson
"It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is shaped. Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance."
- Robert F . Kennedy
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds."
- Samuel Adams
"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country."
– Teddy Roosevelt
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
– Teddy Roosevelt
“The citizen who sees his society’s democratic clothes being worn out and does not cry it out, is not a patriot, but a traitor.”
- Mark Twain
"Liberty has never come from government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of government. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of government power, not the increase of it."
- Woodrow Wilson
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent"
- Thomas Jefferson
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it."
- Abraham Lincoln, First Inaugural
"In this point of the case the question is distinctly presented whether the people of the United States are to govern through representatives chosen by their unbiased suffrages or whether the money and power of a great corporation are to be secretly exerted to influence their judgment and control their decisions."
- Andrew Jackson
"I am more than ever convinced of the dangers to which the free and unbiased exercise of political opinion -- the only sure foundation and safeguard of republican government -- would be exposed by any further increase of the already overgrown influence of corporate authorities."
- Martin Van Buren, Eighth President of the United States
"As we view the achievements of aggregated capital, we discover the existence of trusts, combinations, and monopolies, while the citizen is struggling far in the rear or is trampled to death beneath an iron heel. Corporations, which should be the carefully restrained creatures of the law and the servants of the people, are fast becoming the people's masters."
- Grover Cleveland, 22nd and 24th President of the United States
"I again recommend a law prohibiting all corporations from contributing to the campaign expenses of any party.… Let individuals contribute as they desire; but let us prohibit in effective fashion all corporations from making contributions for any political purpose, directly or indirectly." Teddy Roosevelt added, "The fortunes amassed through corporate organization are now so large, and vest such power in those that wield them, as to make it a matter of necessity to give to the sovereign -- that is, to the Government, which represents the people as a whole -- some effective power of supervision over their corporate use. In order to insure a healthy social and industrial life, every big corporation should be held responsible by, and be accountable to, some sovereign strong enough to control its conduct."
- Theodore Roosevelt
"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower
"It was natural and perhaps human that the privileged princes of these new economic dynasties, thirsting for power, reached out for control over government itself. They created a new despotism and wrapped it in the robes of legal sanction. ...And as a result the average man once more confronts the problem that faced the Minute Man....
- Franklin Roosevelt
"A small group had concentrated into their own hands an almost complete control over other people's property, other people's money, other people's labor -- other people's lives. For too many of us life was no longer free; liberty no longer real; men could no longer follow the pursuit of happiness."
- Franklin Roosevelt
"These economic royalists complain that we seek to overthrow the institutions of America. What they really complain of is that we seek to take away their power. Our allegiance to American institutions requires the overthrow of this kind of power. In vain they seek to hide behind the flag and the Constitution. In their blindness they forget what the flag and the Constitution stand for."
- Franklin Roosevelt
"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day."
- Theodore Roosevelt
"We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
-Thomas Jefferson, American Declaration of Independence
love all these keep it up GW
Tell us GW, which of those men hid behind fake nanes?
Answer: None.
(G)utless (W)imp.
GW
How many times have I told you to stop playing with your food?
Now hurry up and finish so we can all enjoy our troll dessert. Yum!
Troll House Cookies!
Oh yeah! Akak is gonna love this.
So I be a'guessin that your Momma named you...
bubba123"4" !
Probably lots of inbred "bubbas" in you's dumbass family.
If I may interject (otherwise, GW will label you with a silly number again and, I do admit, that is rather embarrassing...):
Your country was founded on the Constitution of the Untied States of America. That document has been run rough-shod over since FDRoosevelt.
There was no income tax, there was no Federal Reserve Board (in fact, it was expressly prohibited...), there were no "police actions" (only Congrss has the ability to declare war...and when was the last time that was done?), there was no Patriot Act, there were no Executive Orders (11110 comes to mind...), there was no TSA.
If you were truly loyal to your true country, you would be as outraged as I am, perhaps moreso.
Your country was founded on the Constitution of the Untied States of America.
No Orly, it wasn't founded on the Constitution FOR the Untied States of America.
It was founded by the Declaration Of Independence, embracing principles of life, liberty, and property, clearly stated therein.
... which neither you, nor GW, nor most of the GW cheering section here likely know anything about, and certainly don't know how to defend in a courtroom.
Okay...wrong!
The Declaration of Independence wasn't the foundation for anything. It was a capstone to the previous marriage. It said that we severed all ties from Britain. We should have called it something really clever like The Declaration of Independence from Great Britain so it would be easier to figure out over two hundred years later.
The foundation of our next venture was called The Constitution of the United States of America, wherein we constituted a brand new government as a basis and foundation for a country that came to be called "America."
Please take your nonsense somewhere else.
Great job again, GW.
Thanks. Rinse. Repeat.
i.
You'd be surprised at the secrets that bind members of secret societies.
Naw, conspiracies don't exist.... The history of conspiracy and abuse of legal procedure, Volume 1
By Sir Percy Henry Winfield
http://books.google.com/books?id=DmFDAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
nice and indio your image of the building being hurled at the airplanes on the other string was extraordinary
Thx, I'm still waiting for even an attempt to explain appendix C of the FEMA report.
http://wtc.nist.gov/media/AppendixC-fema403_apc.pdf
The True Believers won't touch it. They pretend it doesn't exist. If you ask about it , they ignore the question.
Corrosion of the steel as the environment reached 1800 degrees centigrade? That's easy.
Jet fuel!
Disregard the physical components of jet-A that burns at 287 degrees in open air and very, very quickly at that.
It's enough to turn steel into Iron Oxide and Iron Sulfide. Sure it is.
I hope that answers your question.
/:
287 degrees. I can't wait that long when I'm trying to bake a cake. Maybe in my solar oven - yeah, it can reach all the way up to that. Above 350 on a sunny day.
I wouldn't be surprised if most conspiracies do have leakers. But one of the problems is that for every real conspiracy there are probably 10 - 20 false conspiracies. With that kind of information overload, how can you separate the wheat from the chaff? Meanwhile you have idiots devoting inordinate amounts of time to trivial issues like Obama's birth certificate and real crimes like Bush invading Iraq or Iran-Contra get relatively little attention.
I disagree completely and support GW on that point. For every real conspiracy there may be 10-20 false ones, but arguing about all of them is what brings the truth to light.
Keep arguing. Good job GW
What most fail to realise, though, is that all of those things you cited are part and parcel to the same on-going conspiracy.
Do you think that they could really maintain all of these coordinated efforts between parties and between presidents if they all weren't on the same illegal and immoral page?
I wish I could write a song about conspiracy that would make a nice recipe...for hors d'oeuvre..
Mmmm. What kind of h'ors d'oeuvre?
Please, no sushi. How about some Western Kentucky h'ors d'oeuvre? Fried pickles!
I have a recipe for beignets here that I was going to make. I didn't realise the PIA-level was so high.
:(
foie gras, fresh oysters, moules gratinées; assiette gourmande if you like truffles. Or patés and terrines and duck or salmon rillettes. You can make all sorts of salads seasoned with olive oil and nuts with it and grilled toast...
GW,
Listen you traitorous coward.... just because you write a lot of words doesn't make your argument any better. It is not debatable that you sympathize with the terrorists and you hate this country as much as they do. and any imbecile on this board that agrees with you - same thing. You are all traitors to your country.
Hamy? Robo? That you in there?
TPOG
I thought you swung unconventionally...but you sound very conventional off the fairway on ZH; must be your swing which is treacherous not your writing, which drips of venom. Can you bite like you bark or is this just a lololololing lark of a song?
Bubba, was that satire, or are you some kind of moran?
The confederates were traitors to our country.
Dude, a little more subtle, please! Your troll-fu is ham fisted and obvious. ZH demands a more refined class of troll -- you don't measure up yet. Please practice trolling some place less demanding, the online forum for your local free merchandiser rag would be one suggestion, and try again later.
bubba:
When a countin' on you's fingers. It goes...
1...2...3..."4"...
You's thumb is 5 not 1 !!!
We all sorry you be missin' a few digits on the hands and on that I.Q. score.