• Chopshop
    03/20/2010 - 04:48
    Phinance's phavorite political prisoner, Martin Armstrong, cautions that "the EU is in dire position", on the precipice of shattering. Since "debts will never be paid and interest expenditures are the greatest transfer of wealth in history ... Western society is falling apart ... If we do not act, civil unrest will explode. The current choice is DEFAULT or HIGHER TAXES & CIVIL UNREST ... Someone has to step forward to save us or we may be doomed. It's time to wake up for this is the future of our children and their children at stake. "
  • Econophile
    03/20/2010 - 00:41
    As promised, here is the complete article, "China's Fragile Economy, Its Housing Bubble, and What It Means To Us," in a downloadable PDF. You can download it, print it out, and read the entire piece at your leisure. The conclusions aren't encouraging, for them or us.
  • Leo Kolivakis
    03/19/2010 - 17:00
    Europe faces a commercial property debt timebomb with almost €1 trillion (£896bn) outstanding from the sector and a quarter of that potentially distressed. The UK accounts for 34% of the €970bn total, with Germany second with 24%. Not to worry, global pension funds are busy snapping up properties but do they really know how long it will be before this crisis blows over? And what if it gets a lot worse before it gets better? Are pensions prepared to deal with those losses?

David Rosenberg And A Few Good Economic Observations: "Can You Handle The Truth?" His 2010 "Outlook"

Tyler Durden's picture




Courtesy of David Rosenberg of Gluskin-Sheff

It’s that time of the year when ‘sell-side’ research departments publish their Year-Ahead Reports (as I once did in the not-too-distant past); as do all the financial magazines.

I realized after countless emails and phone conversations (in that order) that there is a very high expectation that I publish one too. I honestly have no intention of publishing a specific set of forecasts in my current role as the Chief Economist and Strategist for Gluskin Sheff for public consumption — the granularity of my recommendations is reserved for our Investment team and our client base. Be that as it may, I am more than happy to comment on what I see as an emerging consensus and my general view on the direction of the economy and the markets in the coming year without getting into too much detail or numerical forecasts, which are the domain of the ‘sell-side’ macro teams globally.

At the outset, let it be known that when I read everyone else’s year-ahead prognostications, all I can think of is, “where do I store this stuff for a year so I can look back and say ‘That was so wrong!’.” It’s not that the reports are always bullish every year; it is that they seem so contrived. And, as I mentioned in the December 10th edition of Breakfast with Dave, this year, probably like most years, there seems to be a remarkable level of agreement. Based on my reading, here is what I conclude the consensus views are as we head into 2010:

  • Muted recovery, but positive growth, for sure! No risk of a ‘double dip’.
  • Equity markets up!
  • A barbell strategy of domestic multinational blue chips and emerging market equities.
    The U.S. dollar is…neutral, but we did locate more bulls than bears (so much for the ‘carry trade’ thesis).
  • Positive on commodities for the most part.
  • Concerned about government balance sheets, and therefore…
  • …Bearish on long term government bonds because they are the ‘competition’ and, after all, who would tie their money up for 10 years at 3.5% when you can lose 22% in stocks? And, therefore…
  • …Bullish on spread product (as long as it’s not long-term). And, therefore…
  • …Really comfortable with high yield (just for the coupon and the view that default rates will come down).
  • Certain that volatility will not be an impediment.
  • The Fed will begin to raise rates in the second half of the year, but that this will have no impact since they will still be low.

So here we are with a glorious opportunity to reintroduce Bob Farrell’s Rule 8: “When all forecasts and experts agree, something else is going to happen.”

That being said, these economists and strategists, many of whom I know, are smart guys (and gals) and they are human. To ‘talk your book’ is human; to have the courage to ‘buck the consensus’ is divine. I too am human; I also like to feel that I have courage of my convictions; and I too have a “book” (of sorts — it’s called reputation). But I have decided to take the opportunity of the “Year-Ahead Moment” to transition from sell-side to buy-side and more importantly, to reflect on the past year and really try to prognosticate from the gut. You would be surprised how a blend of intuition and experience can make a difference in a cycle like the one we are in that has absolutely nothing in common with the other recessions of the post-WWII era.

Forecasting is a humbling profession even in the best of times and I have learned a lot in the past year, especially from my partners here at Gluskin Sheff who realizes all too well that:

1. It is what is embedded in asset prices benchmarked against the forecast that is of utmost importance for investors;
2. The focus of any forecast must take into account the reality that minimizing portfolio risks is at least as critical as maximizing the returns, and;
3. Every forecast has an error term and the range around any projection in a post-bubble credit collapse can be extremely wide.

I do not view the economic events of the last two years as a classic recession/recovery phase. They only exist in the context of a secular credit expansions and contractions. We are in a post-credit bubble credit collapse that is ongoing, à la Bob Farrell’s Rule 4: “Exponential rapidly rising or falling markets usually go further than you think, but they do not correct by going sideways.”

Mainstream economists called this downturn “The Great Recession”. This is truly a gentle way of saying “Depression”. When we can have the courage to come to grips with the fact that we did in fact experience a depression of sorts, which is by definition a credit event, then and only then can we draw a conclusion that a sustainable recovery will not get underway until the ratio of household credit to personal disposable income reverts to the mean (and goes to an excess in the opposite direction). I know it sounds harsh, but we shall endure — believe it. Transition is rarely without pain.

The ratio of household debt to disposable income is up from a 30% ratio back in the 1950s to 125% today (though down from 139% at the peak in 2007). Mean reverting to a ratio closer to 60% means that the deleveraging process will be a multi-year event and by the time it is over, more than $7 trillion in additional household credit will have to be extinguished. For more on this see the unbelievably grotesque article on the front page of last Thursday’s (December 10) Wall Street Journal — The New American Dream.

Perhaps inflation is a consensus forecast but deflation is the present day reality and often lingers for years following a busted asset and credit bubble of the magnitude we have endured over the past two years. The fact that China’s voracious appetite for basic materials will continue to exert upward pressure on commodity prices does not detract from this view, especially given the widespread excess capacity in the manufacturing sector and the new frugality that has gripped, and in many cases, been embraced by the retail sector. Higher raw material prices, owing to developments in Asia as opposed to demand pressures here at home, will prove to be a sustained source of profit margin compression for many sectors and companies linked to finished consumer goods and services.

So, much of what I have read in various Year-Ahead Reports predict corporate earnings, GDP growth here and abroad, interest rates and relative values of currencies. As I mentioned earlier, the error term is bound to be very wide in this new paradigm (since WWII) of a secular credit collapse. GDP growth in 1934 was 10%, but the Depression wasn’t over until 1940.

Since 1989, the Japanese stock market has had no fewer than four 50%-plus rallies and there still has been no period of growth that can be called a sustained expansion. Today, we have our own special set of conditions and it is bound to be tricky as is typical during a post-bubble credit collapse, no matter how intense the government reaction. Prematurely committing to the ‘risk’ trade is probably going to be the most lamentable action over the next few years.

Suffice it to say, we believe that the dominant focus will be on capital preservation and income orientation, whether that be in bonds, hybrids, hedge fund strategies, and a consistent focus on reliable dividend growth and dividend yield would seem to be in order. To reiterate, I see the range of outcomes in the financial markets and the economy to be extremely wide at the current time. But one conclusion I think we can agree on is the need to maintain defensive strategies and minimize volatility and downside risks as well as to focus on where the secular fundamentals are positive such, as in fixed-income and in equity sectors that lever off the commodity sector.

This, in turn, underscores my primary focus of favouring Canadian dollar based investments over the U.S. because at no time in my professional life have the downside risks — economic, fiscal, financial and political — been so low on a relative basis and the upside potential so high as is the case today. The near-2,000 basis point gap this year between the TSX and the S&P 500 — the former leading — should be taken in the context of being just past the halfway point of a secular (ie, 16-18 year) period of outperformance. Northern exposure never felt this hot.

4.9
Your rating: None Average: 4.9 (10 votes)



by Gimp
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 17:18
#166584

And his outlook is???  Everyone has become so good at verbose gobbledygook that you need at least three UN translators to understand anything written in or by corporate America. Keep it simple.

by just.a.guy
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 17:35
#166612

It's actually clearly written and concise given the complexity of the subject, but I'll MTV-generationalize it for you.

deleveraging will continue

this will mean substandard economic growth

people piling into equities thinking the worst is over are going to get burned.  japan went through the same thing.

buy high quality credit and equities in materials producers. 

buy canada.

eat poutine and hunt moose.

rosie out.

 

or if THAT's too complicated for you i'll just summarize it as pearls before swine.

by AN0NYM0US
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:14
#166655

and here is one of Rosies Pearls from May 2009

 

In other words, there is still more substantial downside risk than upside risk
to the U.S. corporate earnings outlook. I doubt the recession is going to end
as quickly as the consensus of economists and strategists believe (next
quarter). And, even if we manage to see $70 on mid-cycle EPS, what is the
appropriate multiple? The fair-value P/E should approximate the ‘real’ Baa
corporate bond yield, which means a 12x multiple is appropriate. Though this
can clearly change — judging by the growing share of government in the
economy, more regulation and less free trade, the implications for
productivity, the potential GDP growth rate and the fair-value multiple will
likely all be lower.

 

Slap 12x multiple on to a $70 mid-cycle earnings estimate, which I think is the
best we can accomplish and we are at 840 on the S&P 500. But assuming
that S&P 500 operating EPS first has 30% more downside before we see the
trough (which would be $30), and then apply a typical 60% premium to that
under the generous assumption that we see a typical mid-cycle rebound from
the lows, then we would be talking about mid-cycle earnings just below
$50. Slap on a 12x multiple and there you have the downside story: 600 on
the S&P 500.

But at least we know what the range of outcomes can look like: 600 to 840
on the S&P 500. On March 9th, there was much more upside; today at 892,
quite the opposite.

 

 

likely a lot of impoverished swine running around if they invested in equities based on Rosies predictions

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:32
#166720

"likely a lot of impoverished swine running around if they invested in equities based on Rosies predictions"

That is right and despite ZH bashing the dollar, the buck still has not reached a new all time low. The end of QE did not bring a market black swan. If I had listened to Cramer, I would be in great shape right now. C'est la vie.

by WaterWings
on Thu, 12/17/2009 - 10:56
#166916

Dammit all to hell! Will the zombies stop being right, Gddmn it!

 

by I need more asshats
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 19:03
#166760

oooooooooooooooH SNAP!

by deadhead
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 21:33
#166957

I have stated this several times and will do so again.

on several occasions during the period of approximately may through july Mr. Rosenberg wrote that he felt the spx could hit 1200 before the bear market rally reverted and he warned people about this.  I  read it in his reports on at least 3 occasions.

i'm not going to go through rosie's reports to quote as you did but it is there.  that is simply a fact and your quote does not tell the whole story.

by Ripped Chunk
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:13
#166679

"deleveraging will continue

this will mean substandard economic growth"    Is the standard with or without the 25% of previous years consumption fueled by home equity and credit card borrowing?  Because that is a big variable.

by etrader
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:33
#166709

Thanks Tyler !

Are you guys on best behavior this week on posting full articles ;-)

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 22:18
#167011

True but a list of bullet points make it clear and it
seemed foggy at best. I'll go with the Gimp.

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 17:54
#166641

This guy got it wrong but he just can't admit it.
I have but I only report to my wife.

by Ripped Chunk
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:14
#166682

And once your assets return to a better level (if they ever do) you probably won't report to her anymore either.

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:50
#166744

Those losses represented the 5% equity investments of
my 8 figure portfolio not including my wine country
estate and unlike Tiger and most probably you
I don't fear an honest conversation with my wife,
PUNK !

by Green Sharts
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 17:32
#166601

Mainstream economists called this downturn “The Great Recession”. This is truly a gentle way of saying “Depression”. When we can have the courage to come to grips with the fact that we did in fact experience a depression of sorts, which is by definition a credit event, then and only then can we draw a conclusion that a sustainable recovery will not get underway until the ratio of household credit to personal disposable income reverts to the mean (and goes to an excess in the opposite direction). I know it sounds harsh, but we shall endure — believe it. Transition is rarely without pain.

The ratio of household debt to disposable income is up from a 30% ratio back in the 1950s to 125% today (though down from 139% at the peak in 2007). Mean reverting to a ratio closer to 60% means that the deleveraging process will be a multi-year event and by the time it is over, more than $7 trillion in additional household credit will have to be extinguished.

Why doesn't Rosey have the courage to say we are experiencing a depression instead of we did experience one, i.e past tense?  Nothing else he writes suggests the worst is behind us.  It's like his projection that stocks will return "only" 6% from current levels over the next decade.  If 10 year treasuries are yielding 3.6% there's no reason for investors to expect more than 6% from a basket of stocks.  Rosey's rhetoric is far darker than his forecasts.  I guess he is at the outer boundary of a tolerable distance from the consensus.

by BG_rulez
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 17:51
#166637

How about the explosion in government debts then? The overall indebtedness still grows!

by Shiznit Diggity
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:03
#166660

Why doesn't Rosey have the courage to say we are experiencing a depression instead of we did experience one, i.e past tense? 

There's a limit to how far an economist can stick his neck out of the consensus cocoon and still retain mainstream credibility.

 

by el Gallinazo
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 23:10
#167051

Well, he starts out saying that he doesn't pull out the best wine for

the non-paying guests.  I am no financial genius and can't

understand half the stuff written on this blog, but Rosie's statement is

perfectly clear to me.  As to your point, he says that we were in 

a depression and it will take years to come out of it.  I guess that

means we are still in it.  Look at U6.

 

by E pluribus unum
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 17:33
#166606

What did he say?

by Leo Kolivakis
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 17:42
#166617

Leo Kolivakis's outlook for 2010:

  • The shift in fundamentals will continue as the US labor market will urprise to the upside. In this context, the euro and other currencies will depreciate against the greenback in coming quarters.
  • Improving US fundamentals will send gold prices much lower in coming quarters but oil prices will rise (despite appreciation of greenback) as the US economic recovery becomes firmly entrenched.
  • Liquidity rally will continue and improving fundamentals will drive earnings and stocks higher in the first half of 2010. Watch for speculative flows in renewable energy sector (solar stocks in particular).
  • As the recovery becomes firmly entrenched, the market will start pricing in rate hikes for the second half of 2010. On Tuesday, the Fed announced that it's removing a lot of the excess liquidity (allowing liquidity facilities to run their course) and cost of repos is going up (indirect way of removing excess liquidity).
  • Rate hikes will not kill stocks right away, especially not in the speculative sectors. In fact, some banks will experience windfall gains as they charge more on existing lines of credit and housing lines of credit.

Please do not attack my views. Come back in a year to tell me how stupid they were. :)

by Green Sharts
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 17:42
#166623

You're enough of a buffoon without referring to yourself in the 3rd person.

by Leo Kolivakis
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 17:47
#166628

Sorry, didn't mean to steal your spotlight.

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:11
#166675

April Fools?

by greased up deaf guy
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 23:25
#167058

agreed.  i stopped reading after that first sentence fragment.

by I need more cowbell
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 17:49
#166636

Nah, I can't wait a year. You're an idiot.

by Leo Kolivakis
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 17:54
#166643

Judging from your pic, you don't need more cowbell but more blood flowing to your brain. I am going to remember you and slam you hard next year. Don't forget to renew your membership to Mensa International..LOL!

by I need more cowbell
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 17:58
#166649

Unless I missed the "Golly gosh, I wonder what Leo thinks?!!" post, your hijacking this thread leaves you wide open to all commentary.

Don't feel bad, every village needs an idiot.

 

by Leo Kolivakis
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:04
#166661

Words are cheap. I put my balls on the line and my money where my mouth is. You can slam me till those cowbells start ringing, but I stand by my 2010 outlook. This is not hijacking a thread, but adding my views. Go back to your village, you're embarassing yourself again.

by I need more cowbell
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:06
#166663

Well, your words are cheap, thats for true.

 As for you putting your money on the line and your balls where your mouth is, wow, good for you- I'd never leave the house if I could do that.

by Leo Kolivakis
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:08
#166669

Get ready to bend over and grab your ankles shorty...it's going to hurt!

by I need more cowbell
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:10
#166672

Leo, are you having prison flashbacks again?

by Ripped Chunk
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:16
#166690

Now girls, can't we just get together and settle this in a civilized manner?  With 8" blades??

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 20:54
#166910

Hey this is Fight Club you guys. You know the rules. Lets get it ON!

by Molon Labe
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 21:58
#166990

Prison Rules!

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 17:57
#166647

I'll second that opinion. Leo is the Steve Liesman of
Zerohedge.

by Leo Kolivakis
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:09
#166670

Steve who? Leo is Leo and you'll remember my call when it becomes reality.

by AN0NYM0US
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:21
#166701

166647 - you have that wrong  - Leo is more like the Laszlo Birinyi or Mario Gabelli of ZH - bullish and correct

by Rainman
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 17:56
#166645

I agree with your view that rate hikes will not kill stocks right away.

They'll be planted firmly in the ground by then.

by Leo Kolivakis
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:06
#166664

Really? Why? All I see is shorts that are going to get whacked hard again in 2010. The market is on a tear and the US economy will follow.

by basehitz
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:26
#166711

"All I see is shorts "

 

You assume rampant pessimism. It's the opposite. Bears haven't been this low since '07. See  "2 year" chart.

http://www.schaeffersresearch.com/streetools/market_tools/investors_intelligence.aspx

 

by SWRichmond
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:50
#166746

The market is on a tear and the US economy will follow.

What will we make, and who will buy it?

by delacroix
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 22:02
#166993

where is the growth engine. what will drive these improving conditions, HOPIUM ?

by Rainman
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:58
#166755

There is absolutely, positively no way that massively declining real asset values in CRE and RRE (layered together) can avoid pulling down the economy in 2010. And we sit on an an S&P earnings valuation that must improve 20% + to meet current pricing.....even with the financial industry earnings overstatements.

The interconnection of RE value + MBS + CDS is a worrisome trio of live bombs that will go off in pension funds, insurance companies and other institutional holdings sooner than later. All that's keeping the fuse unlit is the voodoo accounting associated with the marking of assets.....a subject that has received limitless attention here for months.

Furthermore, we must factor in the coming rollback of public sector employment. It functions presently off a stimulus prop that cannot last through next year without a politically brutal Stimulus II battle....and this Congress is losing its guts fast going into the midterms. Employment pullbacks in this sector adds a couple clicks to the unemployment rates and all the other resulting issues with higher unemployment rates.

I do agree with you on very selective opportunities and that will always be the case. But I keep seeing distorted valuations via gubmint stimulus. Once removed, things become clearer. And it is an error to think popular resistance to U.S. debt isn't going to get even stronger legs next year. It will be the wild card on all value projections. 

I could go on . If any of these clouds has a silver lining that you are seein', I'm all eyes !! 

 

by Anonymous
on Thu, 12/17/2009 - 00:46
#167124

there are no shorts left fool, only irrational exhuberance

by AN0NYM0US
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:07
#166667

Leo - how about some specific numbers both for the US and for the great white north

Goodness knows you have been far more accurate this year than Mr. Rosenberg

by Leo Kolivakis
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:17
#166692

I forecast GDP growth north of 3.5% in the US and close to 3.3% in Canada in 2010. Strong first half will surprise a lot of economists and financial analysts.

by AN0NYM0US
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:22
#166703

will you put a number (range) on the S&P and TSX 60  e.g. high low finish for 2010

by Misthos
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:48
#166740

Peak Oiler here. I disagree about a sustainable rebound.  Even if it's possible (only thru gov't stimulus) oil prices will snuff it out due to increased demand, if we don't have a financial panic first.  I'll check with you next year.

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 22:06
#166999

hey Leo, you have links to your prev predictions? Please post them here. If you do not then STFU!!!!

by Leo Kolivakis
on Thu, 12/17/2009 - 08:31
#167289

They are all over my blog moron...go to my archives and read all my predictions. Otherwise, STFUP right back at ya!

by jm
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:11
#166674

Appreciate you laying it out there.

by AnonymousMonetarist
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:16
#166688

by BoeingSpaceliner797
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 19:52
#166825

". . . as the US labor market will urprise to the upside."

 

Been in the labor market since late March.  I wish I saw what you are seeing to predict that the US labor market will surprise to the upside.  I respect your optimism. 

52k temp jobs created in November?  Go ask a person involuntarily on temporary assignment if they feel like they are employed full time or feel secure in their situation. 

I can list reams of anecdotal evidence of just how bad the job market is but I won't take up that much space.  I hope your prognostication about US labor is correct.  Perhaps I will start seeing, applying and getting interviews (heck, maybe even get hired) for something other than an $8-9/hr jobs in retail.

My prediction for 2010?  The nation will become much more broadly cognizant of exactly how badly the US that we've come to know in our lifetimes is on life support.  Exactly what events transpire to make more aware of our plight I cannot say.  But the rude awakening of our country is still in its early stages.

 

by deadhead
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 21:40
#166965

I'll look forward to it Leo, with ease, particularly in light of your previous comments that you see no major events on the horizon. 

I still think that statement of yours (which you confirmed to me in a gentlemanly fashion recently) is the most ridiculous thing that I have read in the past year, bar none.

i'll also remember this one from your note above:

"In fact, some banks will experience windfall gains as they charge more on existing lines of credit and housing lines of credit."

 

by delacroix
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 22:14
#167005

things must look a lot better from canada, kinda like a transvestite looks like a hot chick, from across the street, when you've been drinking, but as you sober up, or get closer, it's like WTF was I thinking.  solar panel prices reduced again , 2nd time in last 6 mos.  boy they gotta be getting that profit margin thin. I plan on buying some, in a few months, when they're selling them for less than they cost to mfg.  like my chevy truck, and we know what happened to chevy. sorry leo you might be a nice guy, but like my brother, I love him, but he's an idiot.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 12/17/2009 - 02:20
#167178

I'm not exactly sure why, but reading ridiculous posts like this makes me think I might actually enjoy the next phase of the credit contraction.

by gookempucky
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 17:39
#166619

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 17:44
#166629

capitalism dead in USA it's alive and kicking in ASIA

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 17:44
#166630

This is explosive !!!!

http://www.finalternatives.com/node/9998

by Ripped Chunk
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:22
#166702

She does not speak from a position of leverage.

All that needs to come up is that she did not get the limited edition Mercedes with a yellow bow on it Cristmas 198X and threw a fit.

Just hate it when love goes wrong don't you.

by kennard
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:02
#166656

The relative optimism of DR's recommendations versus his dark global view results from his largely Canadian audience. Commodities are good. I would stay away from fixed-income, however, even C$-denominated. Why accept a 3.5% yield when you can lose 22%.

by Sutton
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:06
#166666

My Financial Prediction:

An Extinction Level Event

 

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:14
#166680

After last period, I demand you go to the principal's office.

Leo K is right down the hall, last office on the left.

by exportbank
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:13
#166678

Wow.. Rosie and Leo with what seem to be upbeat views on 2010. I hope they're right because I'll guess at some point everyone gets tired of being bummed-out. I just worry a bit about the boomers heading into retirement (and the medical costs of old age), every government going into the monetary ditch - look at California and Ontario as prime examples. What's going to happen to CMHC when real estate reality hits Canada and nearly every jurisdiction jacks up property taxes and fess across North America. Most corporate and bank balance sheets are hiding every error they ever made and mark to market will be delayed (again). The Euro is in worse shape then the USD so I'll simply wish all a Healthy 2010. I hope Rosie and Leo are right although I worry about the solar call.

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 20:40
#166897

I would love to give the CMHC a really thorough prostrate a exam. People don't realise the enormous role it plays in the Canadian economy and just how opaque this Crown Corporation is.

by saturno_v
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:19
#166689

 

Typical US centric forecast if you ask me.

 

The standard of living of 2 billion+ people in Asia will stop its historical steady strong growth?? Fat chance...

 

What are the probabilities that your typical American household will increase its number of automobiles (or getting a second fridge or fifth TV) vs. the typical Chinese family getting its first car??

 

Eventually the Chinese will sever their link to the dollar and let their currency revaluate..they got the production capability and the size of the consumer market...in the long run they do not need us so desperately...do you realize the pressure this will put on commodities??

 

We will adjust downward our standard of living in line with what we really produce and their will rise.

 

Actually if the incoming inflationary turmoil would re-establish the principle of sound money (and possibly full reserve banking...I know I'm dreaming) this would be very welcome in the long run....But I don't think the financial oligarchs wll give it up that easily.

 

I believe we are on the verge of a serious (and badly needed) restructring wave in Corporate America (both listed companies and private) either acting on their own or forced by PE to rebalance towards production and real industry. It will rival the '80s middle management holocaust in scope. That fat layer regrew during the 1990s and 2000s fueled by cheap money.

 

Whoever tells you that companies nowdays are already "lean and mean" doesn't know what he/she is talking about...I meet every day people drawing 6 figures salaries that are not capable of telling you in 30 seconds what they exactly do with fancy pompous titles..we need less marketing departments, ad offices, "Chief Innovation Officers".....and we need lower salaries to match with our real productivity contribution.

 

It's happening...

by cougar_w
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:36
#166726

Oh, and it's happened before. Used to be, the sun never set on the British empire.

Small can be good. Small can feed you. Small can get you into the crack where a minute part last year's wheat was left behind on threshing room floor. But it will only keep you alive if you are that small.

by ghostfaceinvestah
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:39
#166731

Good post.  What do you think the reaction will be to our falling standard of living?  I see more money printing and deficit spending.

by saturno_v
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 19:04
#166761

 

 

Until the kind foreign investor will say "no mas"...

What is my reaction to getting laid off and finding a job with half pay?? Cutting my expenses....either a family or a nation the concept is the same.

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:18
#166695

I am buying puts on polar bears. I have seen a commercial where it was raining with polar bears in NY. That means we are going to have a lot of them so the price should go down.
Q.E.D.

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:28
#166714

I thought you said he was contrarian for once but then he says he thinks everything's going to be okie dokie because the government says so and he's capitulating to the marching cadence of boot stomping hi kicking heil Bloomberg's n stuff.

Riiiiight.

Ok he did say Japan had 4 50% rally's on hot air during their downslide. We'll probably have the same.

I'm want to start a hedge fund. Schrodinger's Financial Asset Management company.

Our premiere product shall be the Computer Assisted Transparency fund. The CAT fund.

Love,
MobBarley

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:40
#166732

Leo;
There is some Canadian co's doing OIl in Columbia. If I was you I'd hedge that solar stock Algore sold you. Just saying.

by zenon
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:40
#166733

Leo,

Solar panels have fallen 40% from a year ago. You solar stocks may be good for a punt but don't stick grandma's savings in them. And be sure to buy her some gold, you know what she sold as a downpayment for the mortgage/ American dream kind of stuff.  The system is borken and a currency event would not be too kind to your investments.

by Leo Kolivakis
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 20:20
#166870

Solars will melt up in 2010 and melt gold away...we are just in the early stages.

by deadhead
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 21:45
#166970

Solars will melt up in 2010

I remember that being said when I was in college in the mid 70s....  Jimmy Carter sitting there in his cardigan......

by delacroix
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 22:30
#167019

leo, I'm a believer in solar energy, I just don't believe you will be able to make any money at it, for a long time

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 22:50
#167040

And the 10-year Au chart says?

http://www.kitco.com/charts/popup/au3650nyb.html

doubtful.

by I need more asshats
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:57
#166751

“where do I store this stuff for a year so I can look back and say ‘That was so wrong!’.”

I pity the fool who thinks he can predict the future.

by moneymutt
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 19:33
#166807

I don't get the go Canada...they are very dependent on US and commodities, if we deflate and commodities deflate, Canada deflates...and given US dollar is historically low to Canada's, there is risk of dollar rally via Canadian again.

So why buy Canada...if de-leverging is on, isn't cash the thing to do?

by heatbarrier
on Thu, 12/17/2009 - 08:18
#167272

Excellent point, Mutt.

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 19:56
#166844

Why buy Canada? The sold more cars in China this year than in the US. Commodities are just getting started and are going to show you what hyperinflation is all about.

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 20:06
#166853

What's Rosie's record? Would you invest on his market chatter?
He's a Canada bull but look at this:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601082&sid=afLrVNIPj7_Q
Ontario is the California of the North. Very broke with extremely generous social programs that are deeply exploited by criminals. I live in Toronto and I see firsthand the disgrace that is the Ontario guv... I wonder if Loomis and Sayles are ready to swallow $25billion (probably closer to $40billion once the final tally is in) of crap this year and about the same next year.

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 22:10
#167003

canada sucks ice if we do not have money to buy their crap

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 21:09
#166927

Let's see: 20% unemployment, 38 million on food stamps, record deficits, more taxes, most states BK, 50% of homeowners with mortgages have negitive equity, forclosures rising again, commercial real estate crash just getting started (two year lag from residential), record BK filings, credit card rates soring and limits being cut, etc.... The future's so bright I've got to wear shades!

Beans, bullets and bullion.

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 21:11
#166929

one could make the case that the consumer was tapped out with debt two years before everything came unglued. One could have made a lot of money long in those two years. Everything in the economy stinks right now but the Fed and congress will keep pumping (elections coming). And it will keep working (care to count the Bear traps in the last year) until is doesn't. One can rent stocks now but not short. There will be time for that later (sometime??).

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 21:18
#166942

How long can a counterfeiter enjoy the good life? Until he gets caught. When the Fed gets audited the party will end. They put at least $3 trillion into the market this year, they put $3 trillion more into it next year....the only thing that matters for the market is how much the fed and their surrogates are going to pump into it....there are only 2 options remaining ...the market or the dollar....if the dollar goes the Fed goes...and the fed isn’t letting that happen.....the entire real estate market can have zero occupancy and operate off of a .1 cap rate and no cash and the Fed will squeeze the shorts and buy the equity and if its 2007…..

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 21:57
#166988

the granularity of my recommendations is reserved for our Investment team and our client base
-------------------
then just STFU!!!!!

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 22:14
#167007

Some people think that the Great Depression didn't end until 1946, because living in a fox hole isn't exactly recovering your economic circumstances. How could have the Great Depression ended in 1940 when rationing of everything from gas to women's nylons continued until the end of the war.

by pooplagrande
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 22:16
#167010

 Anyone predicting the future is an ego-maniac and desperately wants to get a little spotlight for being "right"...which is inherently just plain annoying. It is fun to see the predictions, but please...don't take yourselves so seriously...it is a guessing game...and those who don't recognize that are either ignorant or full of shit.

by Anonymous
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 22:35
#167023

Sure, don't use your instrument panel nor your windshield when driving next. Your steering is equally as good as the next guy's, especially if he's blind.

The future is a derivative of past activity and the measuring and quantifying meters we use are far better than the 'know nothing' attitude you espouse.

There are some soothsayers that use time-worn, trustworthy tools.

by pooplagrande
on Thu, 12/17/2009 - 12:31
#167633

Why I reply to someone that is an ANON...I have no idea...except to say: There is a big difference between paying attention/making educated guesses and driving blind (if I am reading and commenting on this blog, then I am probably not the latter)...but please do not tell me that there is any possible way for someone...even you ANON...to accurately predict the future with any degree of righteousness.

History doesn't repeat itself...if it did, life would be excruciatingly boring...but as they say, it does rhyme. Now guess: Which word am I thinking of that rhymes with rhyme? If you answer correctly, then indeed, you do have some time-worn, trusty tools.

by delacroix
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 22:35
#167024

if I lose control of my car on an icy road, going too fast, it's not that hard to project the outcome. in the ditch, or collision with obstacle, with, or without serious injury

by Edna R. Rider
on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 23:54
#167084

I hate this time of year and I hate predictions.  But since everyone is piling on:

1) yields will increase.  This is bad for governments and businesses.  This is good for the pensioners (Obama's main constituent).

2) the dollar will go up.  It is politically impossible for the money printing to continue.

3) commodities will flat line.  I know oil & gas: the profit is back to where it was for 20 years.

4) stocks will flat line.  There's no reason to sell.  There's no reason to buy.

5) the economy in the US (and most developed countries) will worsen.  It is impossible to keep spending to prop it up and this will surely be felt by everyone.  It will go from feeling like a malaise to feeling like a swamp where it is difficult for anything to move (financial assets).

6) As an employer I dread hiring anyone.  I can afford it, I need to, but I dread it.  So I won't.  If anything I would like to shed more.

7) borrowing money for anything not essential will seem idiotic to any intelligent person you know.

8) no credible candidate will run again Obama.  No serious talent is naive enough to think they could make any improvement on what happens in the DC and the financial world.

9) with oil prices low terrorism will increase.

10) financial asset holders will continue to do extremely well, relatively speaking, as the short selling business has become one of cranks and tin foil hatters, and the only direction for stocks will be a "leaking up" for years.  Picture yourself missing the rally:  sad, but forgiveable, and entirely contrived by the government.  Now picture yourself an avoid short seller.  Your life and career is over.  The government has taken control of the markets and won't let them go in our life time.  Any sign of a "correction" will be swiftly defeated.

by agrotera
on Thu, 12/17/2009 - 04:21
#167210

Nice work Edna R. Rider!

by moneymutt
on Thu, 12/17/2009 - 09:04
#167321

I don't deny there maybe massive govt intervention or shadow private intervention in markets, but to call a non-fundamentally based rally proof positive of intervention seems a reach. Such bear market rallies seem to happen all the time. Were all the bear market rallies in the 30s, and in Japan in last 20 years govt done..and if so, they didn't last.

by Edna R. Rider
on Thu, 12/17/2009 - 21:46
#168347

moneymutt (good name), I beg to differ.  I am not a conspiracy theorist.  The government intervened.  They changed mark-to-market rules, they bought toxic assets from banks, they continued to provide tremendous lending facilities.  This is government intervention.  It happened in the 30s and it happened recently.  Obama knows so little economics he is just repeating Roosevelt.  Yes, there are bear market rallies all the time.  But there has to be a bonafide catalyst.  It doesn't rally for the hell of it.  And it nearly always rallies because of government intervention.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 12/17/2009 - 00:13
#167100

With all the confusing articles and opinions out there right now, I’ll list a few things about which I am confident.
• Good jobs are hard to find and unemployment (U3) will continue to be 10% for a couple of years.
• Unemployment puts pressure on wages, benefits, and bonuses. All three will continue getting cut by various organizations at various times.
• Lower wages means that consumer demand will remain slack, except for fortunate investors, people with job security, and people in key industries.
• Prices will not be able to rise much in this economy.
• Company earnings will be under pressure and the stock market may correct.
• A flight to safety will strengthen the dollar and commodities may correct.
• Consumer, corporate and municipal defaults will continue, maybe accelerate.
• Credit will remain tight.
• Consumers and corporations will reduce debt and postpone capital expenditures or durable goods orders.
• Imports, durable good orders, and shipping will not improve much.
• The government will increase stimulus and continue bail-outs (of banks, the states, etc.) and make record deficits.
• The banks will be made to appear healthy by hook or by crook, and will lend conservatively. Except Wall St. banks will continue to gamble by using leverage to get higher returns. If they fail again, they will be bailed out.
• Those with cash will scoop up bargains.

by moneymutt
on Thu, 12/17/2009 - 08:57
#167314

Great summary, agreed. I'd add this, since consumer demand will remain slack and government will make banks look healthy by hook or crook, debts will not default even when they are in default, so we will not find bottom quickly, but also, we will not turn this aroun quickly either. There maybe great stock market rallies in next few years, but the best regular working folks will get is a long, hard slog, with the lucky ones stuck in jobs, positions they happened to have with when the music stopped, and the unlucky ones sitting on the floor outside the circle of chairs.

Maybe we will avoid it, but if states and locals have to start really laying-off cops, firemen, teachers, deu to drastic drops in tax revenues, than things will get much worse. Those jobs and their retirment benefits are like the last of guaranteed middle-class life that used to also come to manufacturing employees. Most private sector employees have taken it on the chin already, already at their new normal.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 12/17/2009 - 01:59
#167170

According to this source, "When all forecasts and experts agree, something else is going to happen." is rule 9:

http://www.victoradair.com/pdf/Gartman20081113.pdf

by Anonymous
on Thu, 12/17/2009 - 07:56
#167257

Unfortunately the market gloom will come back. It's not hard to spot with cracks appearing all over europe and sovereign debt ready to burst.

People just have a short-term mentality and inability to take pain or ride out uncertainty. You have to 'know' today.

by heatbarrier
on Thu, 12/17/2009 - 08:29
#167268

You have to think global. 2010 will be dominated by events in the EU, currency crises and banking crises, IMO. The second leg of the Great Depression started with a banking crisis in Austria, oddly enough the weakest point in the global system is again Europe.

Remember the EU position at the start of the crisis?  This is an Anglo-Saxon crisis. Right. Look at the EU now.  Everything is too connected.  All major blocks are in trouble but the EU will break first IMO.

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