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David Stockman: "Both Parties And The White House Are Advocating A US Default"

Tyler Durden's picture


Last week David Stockman was on Tom Keene, making the usual media rounds (sometimes we marvel at his patience and endurance), as one of the few voices of fiscal prudence available to TV producers who seek to hold a balanced debate on the topic of US insolvency. Today, Reagan's budget director was again on Bloomberg TV explaining the reality of the situation to Matt Miller for the nth time (by now even a 2 year old will understand the cul-de-sac facing the US), although presenting a new spin on the situation, namely that we have gotten to a point where both parties are implicitly pushing for a US default, while though their inability to reach a political compromise, blaming each other for this inevitable outcome. "The real problem is the de facto policy of both parties is default.
When the Republicans say no tax increases, they're saying we want the
U.S. government to default. Because there isn't enough political will in
this country to solve the problem even halfway on spending cuts. When
the Democrats say you can't touch Social Security, when you have Obama
sponsoring a war budget for defense that is even bigger than Bush, then I
say the policy of the White House is default as well...That
is the question that really needs to be understood better and appraised
by the bond market. Both parties are advocating default even as they
point the finger at each other."

On the debt ceiling negotiations in Washington D.C.:

"Between now and November 2012, it is virtually certain [Congress] can't pass a large, permanent increase in the debt ceiling. We'll have periodic short-term fixes, a month, two months, and then they'll back to squabbling and this enormous political battle we're having over the major components of the budget: revenues, Social Security, Medicare and so forth. It will be back to the same old gong show.”

"I don't have any hope they'll come to a substantive agreement on the big things that need to be done because both parties have ruled off the table the essential things that are necessary.”

“We have to raise revenue, there is no doubt about that. We have to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire for everybody, not just the rich. We have to reset Social Security if we're doing to make any headway in denting this massive, $6 billion a day borrowing spree we're on… Neither [political] party is facing up to the real truth or telling the public."

On broadening the tax base through VAT taxes or taxes for Wall Street:

"At the moment it is very unlikely [that any of these taxes will be implemented], but that is simply a measure of how unrealistic the debate is down in Washington today."

"If they were realistic, they would be discussing what are the new revenue sources we can possibly tap in order to fill this gigantic $1.5 trillion hole in the budget. What are the pros and cons, what are the tradeoffs? You hear none of that discussion. They're whistling past the grave. They should be talking about new sources of revenue and possibly increasing some of the existing taxes we have in place today."

On when Washington will get to the point of discussing raising taxes:

"I think [Washington will discuss raising taxes] only when we get a major, thundering conflagration in the bond market."

"For the last 10 years, Congress has been lulled to sleep by the central banks that keep buying all the debt and therefore holding down the real cost of interest on the middle and long term debt that we are issuing every day.

"And frankly, bond fund managers who somehow think that the tooth fairy is going to arrive and fix this problem, when it's clear that is not going to happen, and that we have sovereign risk on the debt of the United States, just as clearly as the world is now discovering there are sovereign risks in the European debt issues and so forth."

On whether there will be a 9/11-style crisis in the economy:

"That kind of crisis would be a vicious sell-off in the global bond market. That could come sooner than people think, because the Fed is getting out of the market with QE2 ending.”

"For the last six months, the Fed has bought nearly 100% of this $6 billion a day that's been issued. Once they are out of the market, where is the new bid, where is the new demand going to come from? The Chinese are getting out of the market because finally they are having to deal with the rip-roaring inflation they have had. The people's printing press of China will not be buying as much U.S. debt because of its own internal problems.”

"When we get to real investors, what are some of the real investors saying today? PIMCO is short the bond, they're selling, they're not buying.

"When we get into a two-way market when real investors began to look at real risk, begin to look at the gong show in Washington and the magnitude of the gap that we are borrowing, I think we're going to get a re-rating of sovereign risk. We're going to get a huge dislocation in the global bond market, and then maybe the wake-up call will finally come."

On political problems in solving the debt problem:

"The problem is not the debt ceiling. When push comes to shove, at the 11th-hour, they will do it for a couple of weeks or months and we will have a little more borrowing headroom and will be back to the same impasse where we are now."

"The real problem is the de facto policy of both parties is default. When the Republicans say no tax increases, they're saying we want the U.S. government to default. Because there isn't enough political will in this country to solve the problem even halfway on spending cuts.
When the Democrats say you can't touch Social Security, when you have Obama sponsoring a war budget for defense that is even bigger than Bush, then I say the policy of the White House is default as well."

"That is the question that really needs to be understood better and appraised by the bond market. Both parties are advocating default even as they point the finger at each other."


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Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:23 | 1303216 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture


Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:42 | 1303268 Questionmark
Questionmark's picture

Another crisis is imminent and unavoidable at this point. I just wish I knew how long it would take take or what will be the trigger. I keep expecting things to unravel anyday now, but for whatever reason, everything just keeps chugging along.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:44 | 1303286 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

It will keep chugging for years as they slowly painfully grind us down. The Dollar is the reserve currency of the world all are irrevocably yoked to it and prying them off it will be tough. Only coordinated action can stop this reliance and we (US Gov) will do anything to block that coordinated effort. The show will be slow to develop.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 19:00 | 1303329 Concentrated po...
Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty.'s picture

Some things may move slowly, but some things will move very fast.  The markets usually sell off faster than they went up.

I think it's naive to think that it will all just come slowly like sleep and you can wake up whenever the nightmare gets too bad...

Expect panic, followed by delusion and rationalizing, then more panic.  If you meant slow to develop like that then sure, I agree.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 19:21 | 1303385 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

things always move extremely slowly forever.  Longer than anyone can imagine.


But when things break.  They break quickly.


Who lived through the Cold War that ever thought that the soviet union would end so dramatically and quickly?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 20:47 | 1303692 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Everything works that way. 

Ice melting on a pond works that way.  You keep walking on it as the days get warmer -- the voices of mindless normalcy bias keep telling you that nothing will ever change -- and then one day, you just fall through.

Long slow linear changes often terminate in sudden discontinuities.


Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:23 | 1304090 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

the US is not going to default on debt held offshore the provisions are in place to keep offshore paid.


now that we have cleared that up..


the only thing(s) that are going to change are the quality of life for the poor / middle people without a Billion dollar lobby.. again.. for the worse.. some more!


the Country is being crashed on purpose and NO! ONE! is paying any attention.. everyone is to busy pretending that what they say or think matters, it doesnt!


the Country is on the path to civil un-rest.. and no one here has put us on that path and the sheer force needed to keep the Country on that path is immense! mean while the sheep keep on eating grass and baaaaaahing at each other.. all the while slowly being herded off the fucking cliff! I guess the slow motion car accident type herding being done is why no one is noticing?


at some point the safety nets will have been all cut away and there will be an angry crowd.. but that is what the Army is training for, to maintain order over the starving Country men / women and children of the United States of America!


Fuck those scumbags! the weak can die off! shoulda dug a ditch! every man for themself!


Austerity will thin the herd! and! we will have that pesky population problem licked!


Thank God everyone is on board for starving Americans and using the Army to beat back the starving hoards on U.S. Soil! Fuck the Constitution! the Founding Fathers never would have fed a bunch of scumbags! they would have let them starve!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:48 | 1304141 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Listen folks.  All this deficit talk is just more of the same red vs. blue fight that's been going on for decades.  Everyone in DC knows very well gov spending is a direct addition to GDP.  They all want the other party to have to start austerity, because it means a depression... and getting trounced at the next election.

Nobody in power will EVER voluntarily cut spending.  Every administration since Reagan/Stockman has been manipulationg the spending portion to juice GDP on "their watch".  Of course that means the borrowing has to grow every year because the real economy is being outsourced at warp speed.

None of them care about mom, apple pie or the flag.  It's all about "vote for me".

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 05:04 | 1304375 zhandax
zhandax's picture

the US is not going to default on debt held offshore

No, it is worse than that.  Who is the biggest creditor to the US now?  Social Security beneficiaries.  Remember that happy days bunch of criminals who "drove the budget to surplus"?  To accomplish this that same gang of thieves created a special class of government securities to 'fund' the fictitious Social Security Trust Fund.  Those are credit obligations of the US (as opposed to plain ol dollars which are credit obligations of the federal reserve) and puts the SSb's in the same class as China and the other central banks.  So the easiest way to default is to stiff Social Security.   The idiots forced to take this tack will get voted out, but they can assuredly take a bullet for the team and buy another year or two for their fellow criminals which in the current DC kick the can playbook, is a win.

We are at the point where the senators will be willing to push on the party hard enough to sacrifice a few congressmen to retain power.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:49 | 1303840 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

Do you ever wonder why the Soviet Union went quietly in the night without a fight?  When did a regime ever give up power without being forced by open rebellion or a coup and shooting several thousands of their citizens?  Look at all the countries of MENA, add Panama, Argentina, Nicaraugua, etc.   Small time dictators will bring down the country to remain in power, yet a superpower like USSR dries up and goes away because they are broke?   

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:33 | 1303960 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

Maybe the Soviet Union fell apart peacefully unlike your other examples because, unlike your other examples, the regime wasn't challenged by opposition.  Things just got bad enough that one day, nobody showed up.  That's more the way I see things going for the US, too.  No "Freedom Movement" or anything like that.  Just...nobody putting any money in the bank, or going to overly abstract jobs, or paying ruinous bills for things that can't be repossessed (like health care or education).

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:24 | 1304095 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

The 'Soviet Union' was only ever nothing more than an experiment in Leftist political perversion. In true Leftist style, they did not dissolve. Leftist politics does in fact represent evil. Satans little project if you will.

That is just true. Like it or not.

It is true.

It's the lies. That is what gives it away.

Deceit is the calling card.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 00:21 | 1304159 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

The "Soviet Union" was a hoax. The "bolshevik" revolution was planned, directed and financed by the Vatican.

Nothing is what it seems.

Even the "Cuban" revolution is a hoax. Batista started acting up and would not take any more orders from the US. One of the orders was to demonetize silver coinage in the island.

When the Castro brothers seized power in a revolution planned, directed and finaced by the CIA, one of their first actions demonetize silver coinage in Cuba.

As an added bonus, the MIC got themselves a boogeyman a few miles from Miami to scare the shit outta the sheeple.


Tue, 05/24/2011 - 04:51 | 1304379 falak pema
falak pema's picture

you make me laugh, much as I feel that the church was the medieval bogey man of Europe, you are pushing it there...they created Lenin...

wow! Now that is "God's will be done", lol!

"Saint Peter don't you call me I'm working on my bolshevik revolution!..."

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:53 | 1304156 Keri at Bankste...
Keri at Bankster Report's picture

The USSR worked perfectly: the banks funded the so-called worker's revolution in 1917, the funded both sides of WWI, and then cleaned up by funding the then-US ally USSR during WWII, only then to clean up once again in funding the military industrial complex that came about because of the so-called Cold War; once the MIC was entrenched in US foriegn policy, the evil Communist Soviets were no longer needed as boogieman, and they had their funding cut, only to be resurrected as oligarchist "capitalists" with a (surprise!) massive amount of commodities.  Communism is good today anyway, right?  Why else would the People's Republic of China be the freedom-loving USA's prime trading partner?  It turns out that all you need to make communism good is "free" trade!  

There's only a little bit of sarcasm and cynicism in all that above, unfortunately.  Also remember that the Reagan administration and CIA were counterfieting the ruble on a massive scale to try to fulment monetary instability and consumer price inflation that they believed would get the people to rebel.  And remember fax machines.  And remember, as evidenced by the so-called "missile gap" that wasn't, the information given us by the US government about the USSR was at least as inaccurate as the information given us directly by the USSR itself.  Things are rarely as we are told: and by the way, "we" killed bin Laden and dumped his body in the ocean, and NO, you can't see any pictures.

"Whose panties are these?"


Tue, 05/24/2011 - 02:54 | 1304323 Dugald
Dugald's picture


    Due to the lack of interest tomorrow has been cancelled!
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:28 | 1303683 Dejean Splicer
Dejean Splicer's picture

Bullshit. Think Japan x100. The US debt-to-GDP will be over 1000% before the house of cards spontaneously combusts.

Many a fortune will be made in the mean time.

Go out and get your nut! And don't forget to convert it to gold.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 19:20 | 1303391 The Profit Prophet
The Profit Prophet's picture

I agree it could take years.....or, it could happen next week.  The advice I provide to friends who are smart enough to be concerned is to get prepared now, but don't lose sight of the reality of the inevitable collapse as time passes and propaganda plays on every media stream. Central Banks may be able to keep the global economic turd afloat with printed fiat for a few years, but this insanity will only work until it can't. There are forces at work that could potentially trigger a collapse tomorrow...but I wouldn't bet any of my gold on it. Aside from Japan collapsing into the sea and wiping out the US west coast with the resulting tsunami, the Maniacal Money Men may be able to print themselves out of most foreseeable jams. When the entire world financial regime is in on the fiat joke, who is stupid enough to pull the plug that starts the irreversible swirl around the drain?

T.E.I.N. everyone! 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:23 | 1304085 bmwm395
bmwm395's picture

T.E.I.N. ??


Mon, 05/23/2011 - 19:29 | 1303403 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

As 25% unemployment turns into 30%, slow to develope, yada yada, move along.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 20:26 | 1303629 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

I was outraged by both parties and hope the republican party goes extinct and the tea party takes over.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 20:32 | 1303643 Greenhead
Greenhead's picture

TX I junked you and I live in Texas too.  Many of us were furious and felt we had been betrayed by the expenditures, wars and the deficits during W's administration.  What we saw was an acceleration of the corporate influence on gov't that went beyond anything in the past.  We saw an erosion of liberty that no one in their right mind would have condoned had the not been either scared into it or felt it was their "patriotic" duty to allow.  We saw the expansion of  big gov't and statism in a way that we knew wouldn't end well, and it hasn't.  So, quit the partisan bs and let's deal with the real issues.  It doesn't much matter which corporatist party holds the office.  It isn't about the peoples anymore.  One party plays to the left, one to the right, both to the big corporate donors.  What is moving to extinction is freedom and liberty.  High taxes and a welfare/entitlement state which snoops on your email, phone conversations, and through gps knows your whereabouts isn't much of an improvement, is it?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:37 | 1303823 johnnynaps
johnnynaps's picture

Funny, I was watching Pirates 3 thinking and trying to compare the last 45 minutes of the movie to the US's woes of today. The US can be compared to GB in the movie. Invasive, Pompous, and militaristic are 3 things that came to mind when drawing up a comparison. On the other hand, the pirates, who in todays terms can be Iran, Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan and Venezuela were vastly outmatched in the battle......but they overcame and won the battle! Ironically, the last words of Lord Beckett were "it was all just good business"! As what he thought was an ally turned and crushed him.

I don't see this ending well for the US! A huge ally will turn and financially cripple us (just as bad as military interaction).  Not to mention, we have 300 million over-worked, obese and debt-riddled citizens who have been sold down the river and can't possibly take any longer of a workday to pay back our debt!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:23 | 1303937 Mariposa de Oro
Mariposa de Oro's picture

I was confused at first but then I realized you weren't talking about the Pirates movie that I was thinking of...


Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:28 | 1303953 johnnynaps
johnnynaps's picture

Stagneti's Revenge? Great movie!

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 00:05 | 1304165 Mariposa de Oro
Mariposa de Oro's picture



Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:31 | 1303950 sgorem
sgorem's picture

RE-GREENHEAD. couldn't have said it any better. thanks, you just saved me some typing.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 20:39 | 1303644 Greenhead
Greenhead's picture

double post

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 20:56 | 1303710 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

I don't know who you are Slinger, but one thing is certain, you are a total piece of shit. 

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 00:37 | 1304190 knowless
knowless's picture

i like to pretend that he is george dubelyou, it makes it more fun to read. especially applying the accent in my reading.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 20:54 | 1303713 trav7777
trav7777's picture

are you stoned?  There is no way in hell the aggregate debt has only risen by $2T in the past 3 years when we have been running $1.5-2T deficits annually.

Your math is utter bullshit as is your central premise.

The Demofags only complained about war spending under Busch...where the fuck are they now?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:08 | 1303759 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

not only are his numbers utter b.s., but even if they were remotely accurate he is still comparing an 8 year term to a guy that's been around only 2+ yrs. 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:44 | 1303830 johnnynaps
johnnynaps's picture

Where as I was almost suicidal when Bush was re-elected and I hate him more than anything........this guy's numbers are way off! But, the Messiah did inherit a TOTAL mess!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:42 | 1303991 Mariposa de Oro
Mariposa de Oro's picture

I'm no Bush fan, but I'm even less of a Messiah fan.  In two years, with one year of his party controlling BOTH houses of CONgress, he has done nothing to clean up the mess.  In fact, he's even worse than Bush!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:25 | 1303797 Texas Gunslinger
Texas Gunslinger's picture

So now you want to talk about aggregate debt, as in the $100T+ figure?

How convenient!  If you prefer that angle, perhaps you could provide some figures on US aggregate debt in 2001 versus 2008? 

At least you didn't question the radius of Obama's cranium, which is a mild improvement from the racist garbage you were spewing this past winter.  

And you might want to STFU regarding central premises: your central premise that diversity mandates are to blame for much of the decline of this country is only slightly more ridiculous than your admission you drive a Volkswagen Phantom. 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:41 | 1303810 Dejean Splicer
Dejean Splicer's picture

"diversity mandates are to blame for much of the decline of this country is only slightly more ridiculous"

Total retard. Why is .gov so worried about China? Because they have no dependent class. No welfare baby momma's, no negro reparation class all sitting at home 'on disability' collecting food scooters waiting for their section 8 upgrade, on the phone to the personal injury attorney setting up their case.

Adding nothing, sucking, thieving, and adding nothing to GDP.

Wake up.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:22 | 1303928 Texas Gunslinger
Texas Gunslinger's picture

Inconceivably idiotic.

Who is a bigger threat to this country, and which group has inflicted more harm:

  • the poor and down-trodden taking government subsidies... or
  • the well-educated, perfectly assimilated, mostly white, country-club-plutocratic elite who have gutted this country to the core?

Yet still, if you absolutely must blame diversity mandates for the demise of this country, tell me what color the senators were/are that crafted those "diversity" bills in an effort to buy the minority vote? 





Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:50 | 1304002 ZapBranigan
ZapBranigan's picture

Shitslinger, you've been 'outed' over and over and over again here on ZH.  You're so fucking fake that you don't even deserve the title of "troll".  You make the likes of Hamy, Smailes, MethHead, and the rest of the fucktroll posse actually look good...a feat not easily accomplished.  Get yourself another username and try again...epic, epic fail.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 00:40 | 1304199 knowless
knowless's picture

the tell is the obvious class play with a racial analysis.

pure chumming the waters:


the rulers will distribute bread to the most likely to usurp power through violence, that is a fact. the only other alternative is disappearings.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:38 | 1303929 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

So now swearing is okay for the religious nut from Texas?

How many different people are on this particular account?

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 00:54 | 1304213 knowless
knowless's picture

i feel that he is sincerely attempting to help others to question their vague beliefs..his statement about "what color" is what gets me, fully recognising that a political class of mostly "whites" promising minority and partisan voters an ease on their guilty conscience/free money..

it's a direct assault on racism as an ideology, pointing out the inadequacies, supporting an understanding of power that has no specific dental/skin/stature requirements.

he is definately looking for a fight, but maybe watch how he punches, there might be something to it.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:02 | 1303732 superman07
superman07's picture

"Why all the outrage now? "

pay attention much? last I checked W's poll numbers sucked and these issues were in the news. The diffrence is people actually thought O was going to be change, and he is simply more of the same (in black skin since you like to bring it up so much).

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:10 | 1303753 BoeingSpaceliner797
BoeingSpaceliner797's picture

The greatest genuine outrage, of course, is anybody propagating the busted paradigm that a substantive difference exists between the two parties in the US.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:34 | 1303974 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

There you go.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:01 | 1304052 Imminent Collapse
Imminent Collapse's picture

+1 797

Not a dime's difference between the two parties.  Both bought and paid for by corporate overlords.  Total collapse is the only thing that will remedy the situation.  It will be painful, but better sooner rather than later when it will be even worse.  Fuckin A  

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:10 | 1303762 Jendrzejczyk
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:26 | 1303794 nmewn
nmewn's picture

What most troubles you Redneck Republicant...the fact that you were a poor student or that you lost your lawsuit against the professor?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:53 | 1303831 jaffi
jaffi's picture

That is incorrect, Texas.  

GWB increased the debt from $5.728 trillion to $10.627 trillion.  Obama raised it from $10.627 trillion to the current $14.392.

In terms of increases as a share of total debt, that means that GWB increased the debt 85%, and Obama increased it by 35%.  

In terms of increases of total debt as a share of GDP, GWB increased debt by 5.6%, and Obama increased it by 21.9%.

In terms of total net increases of debt, GWB increased debt by $4.899 trillion, and Obama increased debt by $3.765.

While I love playing with numbers and percentages, it often does help to remember that Bush's numbers are for a term of 8 years in office, while Obama's are for a term of 2 years 4 months in office (or, roughly 29% of 8 years).  While I was extremely critical of GWB when he was president, and am certainly not a fan of Obama, the point is that debt continues its exponential climb; such is life on a debt-based monetary system.

BTW, I am not a conservative, just in case you were curious.  I am an Austro-Libertarian since February 2004, exactly two years after I had enlisted in the US Navy and experienced my first deployment (having been to war will tend to change one's political outlook). 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:34 | 1304121 bmwm395
bmwm395's picture

Don't forget the Dems had the majority 2007

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:54 | 1303859 earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

The Tea party was fighting the Republican establishment in the primaries. Where's the equivalent on the Democratic side of the isle. Does not exist and will not exist.


The lunacy, hypocrisy, fear mongering and faux-outrage by American "conservatives" replaced same from American "progressives" the previous 8 years. Keep braying those fascist talking points of the Center for American Progress.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 01:04 | 1304219 knowless
knowless's picture

education has financially destroyed the "democrats" in america, anyone who believes in an equitable and lawful state which is not ruled by the few, is marginalised in "liberal" circles. if you want to put forth a rationed opinion, one which holds reality as the key factor, you aren't PC, and thus are shunned:

I wish i could use facts and reason, but .. no one likes that, it makes them feel bad.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:02 | 1303879 holmes
holmes's picture

Well you convinced me Tex. I'm giving Obama a pass on spending us into bankruptcy cause he's a black man

On the golf charge, get your head out of your ass.
Apr 19, 2010 ... President Barack Obama has played golf 32 times since he took office, eight more than his predecessor George W. Bush

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:05 | 1303887 MisterAmbassador
MisterAmbassador's picture

Bush was also a progressive President like Obama.  He expanded Medicare, sent out stimulus checks - a Keynesian, engaged in nation building - like LBJ, cut taxes without cutting spending, didn't force through a privatization of Social Security, and spent like we had infinite money.  Bush wasn't a conservative on issues you should be conservative on.  He doesn't want gays to marry or women to have the right to choose, but he was a fiscal liberal.  Bush also signed onto bailouts.

Conservatives gave Bush a pass because he had an (R) next to his name - duh.  Most Americans haven't been satisfied with either party for a while.  But, as long as the economy isn't too bad for most, like it was during Bush, people generally don't express their frustrations.  Most Federal spending is "mandatory".  Ross Perot charted all of this out; his estimates were delayed by the Internet boom of the 1990s and the Peace Dividend from the end of the Cold War.  But, we've known these problems were coming for a while.

Instead of wasting money to keep old people who didn't save for their on retirements and health care alive and nation building, we should have been investing that money in infrastructure here at home.  Oh well, America had a good run.

Our borrowing costs have never been less - someone doesn't understand debt monetization.

This person still plays the party game.  What an idiot.

I feel bad about the coming collapse, but then I come across a person like Texas Gunslinger and realize it's just nature's way of purging herself.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:31 | 1303961 MisterAmbassador
MisterAmbassador's picture

I've often wondered if there is really much point to Internet commenting.  Do people ever actually change their minds based on Internet comments?  or is it just a way for people to express their frustrations at one another?

The Internet appears to be full of mainly angry people yelling at one another.  Louis C.K. has a comedy bit about that.  He's hilarious; I'd recommend you check out his show on FX too, but I digress.

I've tried to talk some sense into the people on Reddit, but they're a lost cause.  Then if you go over to Beck's blog you can't talk any sense into them, either.  Climate change is real, but it cannot be solved with cap and trade - cap and trade is about wealth redistribution.  If we actually had free-markets, they would solve most, if not all of our problems.  Medicare and Social Security shouldn't exist.

80% or so of people have been taught what to think, not how to think, so they are all split on issues in an irreconcilable way.

Libertarianism is the only enlightened philosophy, but most people are not enlightened.  A thinking person can only reach the Libertarian conclusion. 

Anyway, all this arguing is pointless.  The country has to collapse.  That fate was sealed with the bailouts and by not breaking up the banks and corporations that have monopolies; free-market capitalism cannot function without competition and the risk of failure. 

A complete collapse is the only way to fix our problems.  The system has to purge itself all at once because we haven't allowed it to do it over time.  The Union probably won't exist in ten years, at least not with fifty states.  Another Civil War and maybe even a World War are on the horizon.

Hmmm...  I think I might get drunk tonight.  Yeah, that's a good idea.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:02 | 1304048 Mariposa de Oro
Mariposa de Oro's picture

Mr. A.

I understand how you feel.  Zero Hedge comments are about the only ones I read. 
The comments on this site, for the most part, tend to be made by intelligent people.  Though I've been around for about a year, I've noticed an up tick in nasty trolls, with the increase occuring shortly after articles covering Cass Sunstein recommending government specialists infiltrating chats/threads and manipulating discussion.  Of course, there are random idiots about who just stumble here on their own, but I have a feeling the the ZH trolls are here for a reason.  I don't read their garbage.  As for other sites, I think you're correct.  They are filled with angry people who only know how to shout past each other.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 06:54 | 1304422 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

That's the beauty of the central bank system. They own intelligence organizations so they get us air force dudes to troll out europe, the get israeli dudes to troll out us. They are in essence trolling and mind warfaring against their own people but they get to claim the foreign boundry. If that becomes too much trouble they get low conciousness people to spoof a foreign ip address and war away.

Deutche bank does more cia type operations than most third world countries.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:10 | 1304063 philgramm
philgramm's picture


Have faith. There are many here like myself who may not comment often but we are openminded. There is a lot to be learned from reading the cogent arguments made by some intelligent posters and commentors. Sometimes I have to sift thru the BS but it's worth it. I have at least 10 friends/acquaintances that read ZH everyday. They dont comment but they read the posts and comments. My point is that if you make good points they will not fall on deaf ears. Peace.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:18 | 1304083 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You can't change the minds of other commenters (for the most part), only the silent readers.

So yes, internet commentary is important, just like talking with strangers in pubs was important in 1770's America.  It is also important for commenters themselves.  Fight Club makes us strong, and more able to deal with conversations in "real life".  Using things I have learned online, much of it from other commenters, I have swayed several people to "the cause".  They have started buying gold and silver in the correct proportion to their age.  They now question that which they NEVER would have questioned before.  That is a good thing.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:37 | 1304129 Vagabond
Vagabond's picture

88663 2011's

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 00:59 | 1304216 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

That's the difficulty. Libertarianism requires thinking and some basic knowledge of history and human behavior. It is even counterintuitive at times. In the end, it is the only solution that will work over time. The good but painful truth is that all the statist-collectivist-central planners cannot make their system work. We will see that for ourselves for the 1213th time in history. Eventually, we or some of us may get it right. Our founders did a hell of a job but did not foresee our incredible stupidity and deception.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 01:31 | 1304245 knowless
knowless's picture

when did you change teams? i'm pretty sure the founders saw this coming, what with the liberty tree being watered in blood and all...


you can only call a system which takes from some to give to others(them standing on same merit/wealth) socialism for so long before it becomes totalitarianism. when the underclass' fight between those who work and those who take benefits, both being equal in all other regards, you've got a violent problem on your hands.

i am a doomer™(seems like i just can't get behind the positive side for some reason..), but for real, it has and always will be forseen. as long as logic and rationality are your god.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 02:19 | 1304295 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

You make a good point. The disappointment which may or may not have been foreseen was the abdication of our liberty and the means by which it is lost. The founders, especially Jefferson were clear that historically liberty yields to totalitarianism. I just wondered if they saw that we would give it up for government checks and we would so easily acquiesce to unlimited rules and laws...being so easily fooled, ruled and lead. Lead by fools and ruled by vapid arrogant narcisists who promise what cannot be delivered. It is the devil's offer, "Do all that I command and I will give you all that you want."

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 01:47 | 1304264 LudwigVon
LudwigVon's picture

Thank you for your posts. Continue with renewed strength.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:27 | 1304102 you enjoy myself
you enjoy myself's picture

When Bush took office (1/20/09), the debt was $5.7T.  When he left office (1/19/2009) it was $10.6T - an increase of $4.9T .  And contrary to your suggestion, no one was happy with Bush that he permitted that debt to accrue.  Remember all those ridiculously vacuous poll questions of "do you approve of the direction the country is going in?"  I didn't bother to look up a citation, but it was usually on the order of an 85% negative during the last Bush years.  Do you think that means 85% of the public was going to vote for a Dem?  No, it means fiscally responsible Republicans were pissed as hell at Bush and Pelosi's spending, and they registered their disapproval.  But just because those pissed at Bush over his drunken-sailor spending didn't vote for the even more nightmarish scenario of Democrat spending doesn't mean they approved of Bush's spending. 

Obama has seen debt grow from $10.6T (on 1/20/09) to $14.0T (on 1/19/2011), and increase of $3.4T in exactly two years.  If you extrapolate that over an eight year term, it becomes $13.6T in additional debt. Which I'm sure even you can tell is a lot larger than Bush's irresponsible, big-government, risible, gut-busting, apocolyptic $4.9T.  So, you know, maybe all those Repulicans that railed against Bush's (and Pelosi's) spending are not exactly being hypocrites when they express concern now.




Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:28 | 1304104 Destrier
Destrier's picture

Many of us now Tea Party types WERE screaming about Bush deficits.  But to compare the damage done by Bush in 8 years to Obama's record in only 2+ years is laughable.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 01:04 | 1304218 HagbardC
HagbardC's picture

Dude... your troll mask is slipping.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:28 | 1303942 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

The pattern is actually quite clear...



Tue, 05/24/2011 - 00:48 | 1304206 masterinchancery
masterinchancery's picture

Yes, and Stockman is just as clueless as the rest; 19.5% of gdp(itself phoney) is all you are going to get, so forget about "raising revenue", and probably causing a new depression ala 1937.  Start shedding govt departments and programs--if not, it's all over.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 06:21 | 1304410 bonddude
bonddude's picture

Speaking of timber...story about to break in next Sunday's Santa Rosa Press Democrat

(a nytimes newspaper) about the fraud helped bring down INDYMAC BANK, and what grown to

as many as 15 other banks including the very dirty Sonoma Valley Bank whos execs lavish

compensation program didn't have a concern about rampant executive fraud. Oh boy, a


Tue, 05/24/2011 - 06:54 | 1304411 bonddude
bonddude's picture


That is FIFTEEN BANKS people. FBI, SIG-TARP AND IRS closing in.


Tue, 05/24/2011 - 06:57 | 1304424 bonddude
bonddude's picture




Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:21 | 1303222 The Count
The Count's picture

What I a saying is that the entire US system has lost its marbles. Reps, Dems, it does not matter. Common sense has been a rare and precious commodity these days. The only ones benefiting from this mess are the banksters. The profited on the way up, got bailed out on the way down and will again profit from any reconstruction/revaluation/PM standard. If there is a 1789 in the making, they are the ones that have to loose their heads first. 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:28 | 1303231 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

One thing you can be sure of:


Mon, 05/23/2011 - 19:22 | 1303394 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Yeah I sold all my silver and bought paper common sense and I've been losing my shirt. Should have bought physical common sense...bitchez!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:27 | 1303232 Nicholaz
Nicholaz's picture

Hmm ... taking "never underestimate the stupidity of political individuals" to the extreme was one of the options I missed so far.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:28 | 1303235 Ecoman11
Ecoman11's picture

It's going to take a 911 style crisis before Washington can move on this.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:30 | 1303247 Nicholaz
Nicholaz's picture

Yeah, and then the government will declare a "war on [insert crisis here]" and in unison agree to more spending.  If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail, and if your only tool is spending, your destination is default.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:44 | 1303836 johnnynaps
johnnynaps's picture

you are correct! The next war after the war on silver will be on the black market! And, more freedoms crushed!

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 00:43 | 1304205 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

of course with the upcoming extension of the patriot act, the FBI can get national security letters to find out who's been buying physical...

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 20:02 | 1303546 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Rightly said,(as one is most definitely likely in the works) except for the last word.

this, should have read Us.

The focus of said event will be the TOTAL destruction of the rights we have known since birth.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:19 | 1304078 kujo
kujo's picture

Are these rights we actually had or rights we thought we had because that's what we were told our whole lives?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:26 | 1303236 bogey4
bogey4's picture

I can't for the life of me figure out why he keeps harping on Social Security.  It simply isn't a problem right now, or in the immediate future, or even the intermediate future.

You'd think he'd focus on the stuff that is a problem right now so we can at least make some progress. 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:33 | 1303254 Questionmark
Questionmark's picture

AFAIK, the social security fund has been raided in order to pay for wars + various other things that couldn't be put in the budget, and is now made up of IOU's. Now that they no longer take in more than they spend, on account of boomers retiring, I'm not sure what to expect. The government definitely can't pay the IOU's, so they'll either print the money or default. Neither is really a desirable outcome.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:47 | 1303288 Fiat2Zero
Fiat2Zero's picture

It's important to realize there is no "lock box" for social security.

Social security is (was) an income stream. The income stream has dried up and turned negative

>> Social Security tax receipts for the first half of 2010:
>> $346.9 billion; Social Security benefits payments for the
>> same period: $347.3 billion.

Since the baby boomers have started retiring this will become a gaping hole soon.

Not sure how the CBO computed this, but considering the _fact_ above, color me skeptical on the _projection_ below:

>> Social Security projected to run a surplus of $69 billion in 2011.

Social security is a relatively low-hanging fruit that's easy to manage, without "death panel" baggage. If we can't cut this canary in the coalmine, can we cut anything?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 19:19 | 1303382 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

only total financial twits think that social security actually has any assets. 

The only way to pay more out in social security than we currently take in, is to sell more debt.  Who will buy our debt?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:15 | 1303775 Dejean Splicer
Dejean Splicer's picture

"Who will buy our debt?"

Those who are forced to.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 02:00 | 1304275 LudwigVon
LudwigVon's picture

Ok so I have been wondering this for some time now myself. I was thinking the BoJ, the BOE and the Fed directly. Can't the Fed buy U.S. debt via friendly foreign central banks? The BoJ has proven its worthyness as it can keep up with the Fed when it comes to goalseeking GideonGono QE (while saying the opposite). The BoE has not printed as much as the Fed or the BoJ yet, but they sure need to!! Who knows what will happen to the ECBin ten years it may be gone. But if the goal is a managed decline in the dollar, well we are going to need some help then. Japan does not want to see a loss in the faith of the dollar. They can paper short PM's forever as well imho.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 00:46 | 1304207 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

because government uses cash accounting.

Something I never understood. Every listed company (chinese reverse mergers exceptd) in the world uses accrual accounting.

You have to PV your liabilities and compare to the PV of your assets.

Yet the government will, for e.g. sell off a building, and use the cash proceeds to pay rent and say they are solvent, when they couldn't pay to keep the lights on when they owned the building.


This whole talk about 'liquidity' crises is the biggest crock of sh1t ever. There's no liquidity crises. It's been a SOLVENCY crises from day 1

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:52 | 1303301 Rainman
Rainman's picture

+ 14 T.........and the best worst part is those IOUs are non-negotiable.....payable only through Timmay on demand sort of.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 19:54 | 1303508 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

+  $29 Trillion.. as of a while ago.. so lets go with $40Trillion! ok.. $35T.. but we will get $40T sooner than later!  Treasury Direct $14 Trillion Debt /   $15 Trillion in Loans /  / ='s $29T

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:50 | 1303308 silvertrain
silvertrain's picture

EXACTLY..SS money thats showing on the books is NOT ACUALLY THERE..It is IOU's TO SS just as Questionmark states..It has been LOOTED JUST LIKE ALMOST EVERY OTHER FUND KNOWN TO MAN...

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:14 | 1303900 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

All money is an IOU until you convert it to real goods.  

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 01:59 | 1304278 LudwigVon
LudwigVon's picture


Tue, 05/24/2011 - 02:03 | 1304279 LudwigVon
LudwigVon's picture

I mean, Gold.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:52 | 1303852 johnnynaps
johnnynaps's picture

Ah, thank God I knew retirement would be a joke and took my retirement in my early 20's! Now, I'm in my early 30's taking it again (unenjoyment)! Really don't give a shit if I ever get a real job at this rate of taxation. Supporting lavish government pensions, 44 million food stamp recipients, 2+ bullshit wars, Congressional salaries, horrible infastructure, Banksters, dissapating liberties, and a nanny state just seems moronic to me! I'd rather be a hole as opposed to a mast in the side of this sinking ship! 

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 01:06 | 1304221 StychoKiller
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:53 | 1303304 kito
kito's picture

maybe you should bone up on our social security trust fund. it consists of 2 trillion or so of u.s. treasuries. thats it. u.s. treasuries. so the great asset of the trust fund is u.s. debt. yearly tax revenue isnt enough to cover ss payouts, so they have to cash in tens of billions of the u.s. treasuries every year to cover itself, which means the treasury has to borrow to pay off the ss admin. and this isnt a problem to you?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 19:42 | 1303466 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

The trust fund is full of IOU's. The government is not obligated to pay anyone SS or Medicare. There was already a court decision in the 1950's and the SC ruled that SS is part of the general fund.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:25 | 1303792 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

Do you understand what the SS "trust" fund is?  There is no cash, equities or any negotiable securities in it-- nothing, nada.  There are only "special" treasury notes, special as in they are not negotiable by SS.  They must present them to the Treasury, that has empty shelves themselves.  The Treasury can't pay the notes, they have to sell more debt.  THERE IS NOTHING IN THE SS TRUST FUND!!!!  Do your homework, you will find the truth, and it should make you mad as hell.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 02:23 | 1304301 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

What planet do you live on? Social Security along with Medicare is the entitlement economic tsunami just off shore! There is no cash or investment. It has been used to balance the books since the late '60s. It is like the bank taking all your deposits to fund the day to day operations of the bank and not putting it to work earning interest. Sooner or later the deposits will completely evaporate. The ponzi will break down.

With a 40% deficit there are plenty of problems right now all with the same source.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:29 | 1303237 km4
km4's picture

Stockman on-the-money once again

Also this...

I think the people would respond if they knew the fact, and if they'd been were told the truth, but they haven't been, they've been lied to for the last 10-20 years by both sides saying that we can live beyond our means, new entitlements, new tax cuts constantly, tax stimulus for everything that we could imagine, and as a result of that the country doesn't know that sacrifice is going to be required, and that everyone is going to have to give up something."


Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:31 | 1303242 docj
docj's picture

So, is Stockman basically conceeding that budgets will never, ever be cut?

So default will happen eventually anyway. We're eventually going to run out of other peoples' money to spend.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:34 | 1303250 Nicholaz
Nicholaz's picture

Default will happen only if they run out of ink (and they can always print a little more, if nothinelse to purchase more ink).

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:19 | 1303783 docj
docj's picture

Sure, but that's just default by other means.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:29 | 1303244 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

Certainly, the old saying "Regan proved that deficits didnt matter" will be rewritten in the history books to "Regan proved deficits take, on average, 30 years to destroy a country"

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:33 | 1303248 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

I am considering moving abroad.  I am at least preparing for it.  I wonder how many other people will leave if the economy really takes a shit?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 19:06 | 1303334 Cyrano de Bivouac
Cyrano de Bivouac's picture

What would happene if a lot of Americans would leave esp. the ones with the 90,000$+ pensions? The State and Federal government with be sending billions to who know where and the money will be spent there.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 19:03 | 1303335 Concentrated po...
Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty.'s picture

every mexican that came over thinking it would be better is how many...they already proved that they can migrate.  Joe six-pack will remain on the couch while his EBT card is replenished of food stamps.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:57 | 1303860 johnnynaps
johnnynaps's picture


Mon, 05/23/2011 - 19:06 | 1303348 takinthehighway
takinthehighway's picture

Problem with that, friend, is that they'll get to you eventually. Sure they'll concentrate on pacifying the larger entities first, but global domination will tolerate no dissension. Do you really believe that the gringos won't be offered up as sacrificial lambs if push comes to shove?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:31 | 1303249 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

A default might be the best option.  Acknowledge reality.  Take a big haircut on outstanding debt.  The US would get locked out of the debt markets (not completely, but enough to make trillion dollar deficits impossible) to the extent that it could only spend cash tax receipts.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 19:16 | 1303376 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Having the government credit card taken away may be the only way to enforce spending discipline.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:55 | 1303865 johnnynaps
johnnynaps's picture

Nah, They'll just write checks that bounce then!

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 01:19 | 1304235 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Send a copy to your "favorite" Congress critter:


The Honorable _________
U.S. House of Representatives
Washington, DC 20515

The Honorable _________
United States Senate
Washington, D.C. 20510

Dear Mr. or Ms. _______,

Thank you for your interest in the American Public Trust's Gold Card credit program.  Rest assured your application has been given thorough and careful consideration by the American people.

After reviewing the information provided in your application as well as your credit report, we regret to say that we are unable to extend you further credit at this time. The reasons
for our decision are as follows:

(1) Inadequate income.Our records indicate that your annual income for the 2011 taxable year was $2,170,000,000,000. You have requested a credit limit of $17,000,000,000,000. These figures exceed the American Public's debt-to-income guidelines for credit issuance.

(2) Excessive spending. The receipts you provided indicate your annual expenditures for the 2011 fiscal year total $3,820,000,000,000, or $1,650,000,000,000 more than your total income for the year. The American Public prefers that its members of Congress maintain a positive or neutral rather than a negative cash flow.

(3) High debt utilization. Your credit report indicates that you have a credit limit of $14,300,000,000,000, and of that amount you have utilized $14,300,000,000,000, for a debt
utilization ratio of 100 percent. Consumer banking industry guidelines recommend a debt utilization ratio of no greater than 30 percent for standard creditworthiness, and 10 percent
for exemplary creditworthiness. A debt utilization rate of 100 percent meets our classification of "You're *&^%$#@! kidding, right?"

(4) High credit activity. Our records indicate you have credit accounts open with the Federal Reserve Bank of the United States, the Social Security Administration, the People's Bank of China, the Bank of Japan, the European Central Bank, the Bank of the Republic of Burundi, Bank Frick & Co. AG Liechtensteiner Privatbank, Quik-Cash Loans, Three Gold Balls Pawn Shop (Ann Arbor, Mich.), MyFast (Antigua), (Cayman Islands), Frank the bartender (Old Towne Tavern), and several members of the extended family of Salvatore "Sammy Meatballs"
Montigliano of Montclair, N.J. While account activity threshholds vary by lender, your activity exceeds American Public guidelines for further credit issuance.

(5) Multiple recent credit inquiries. Records indicate your credit report has been accessed more than 6,437 times in the past 60 days. Inquiries may be triggered by applications for credit, employment or both and represent one factor in determining an applicant's loan risk to a credit
issuer. The Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA), as amended, requires businesses to have legitimate grounds for requesting your credit history. If you feel your credit information is inaccurate or has been accessed for unacceptable reasons, you may wish to contact the Federal Trade Commission.

(6) Multiple account charge-offs. Balances left unpaid for more than sixty (60) days may affect your creditworthiness. Your credit report indicates unpaid balances from Operation Iraqi Freedom (Iraq); Operation Enduring Freedom (Afghanistan); the Troubled Asset Relief Program; the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act; the Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act; the
Cash for Clunkers Extension Act; the Worker, Homeowner, and Business Assistance Act of 2009; the Healthy, Hunger-Free Kids Act of 2010; and others too numerous to list.

Member of Congress, please understand that the American people's decision was based on information
obtained from a report from one of the following three consumer credit reporting agencies: Equifax,
Experian, or Trans- Union. The reporting agency did not make the credit decision.

You have the right under the amended Fair Credit Reporting Act to request a free copy of your credit report once each calendar year from each of the three major credit reporting agencies listed above. You can order your report from or the Annual Credit Report
Request Service, P.O. Box 105281, Atlanta, GA 30348-5281.

You may also wish to contact a consumer credit counseling agency. The National Foundation for Credit Counseling can help you locate a reputable counseling agency in your area. You may also wish to visit the NFCC's website for helpful tips on such subjects as

    •drawing up a budget
    •living within your means
    •saving during tough economic times
    •steps to take when your finances get out of control
In the event that you can provide documentation of changes to your credit status, we will be happy to evaluate another application for credit from you at that time. We hope to have the opportunity to meet your credit needs in the future.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact the American people during regular business hours. Please do not contact us at home. If you call us after 9 p.m. and wake the baby, there will be hell to pay.

                           Sincerely yours,

                           We the People




Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:37 | 1303251 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Buy Gold and Silver! <--- click my link! I want more gold and silver! I would click yours!


Why Gold & Silver? FULL MOVIE - Mike Maloney Tells All

from Mike!


and if you wanna know why metal is better than Paper! 3 Years 300% More Dollars Printed Out of Thin Air!

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 11:19 | 1305108 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

all 12 of you junkers shoulda bought some gold and silver.. you would have been up today.. because the banks around the world suck (publicly) again! not that they didnt suck before.. just people watching prime time news didnt know about it!


any way better luck next time!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:36 | 1303253 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Of course he never calls into question the folly of using a debt-based system which favors the bankstas and corporate efftards only.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 19:09 | 1303358 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

And since when has raising taxes ever solved a debt problem. The extra revenues will be spent, not used to retire debt. Complete implosion is the only real viable outome.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 19:15 | 1303374 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture


The more money you give government the more worthwhile causes they find to spend it on.  Government will always be short of money no matter how much it gets because wants are infinite.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:08 | 1303757 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

WOW!  Stunning that topcallingtroll prioritizes the shoveling of money to banker-gangsters at the expense of the public welfare.


Tue, 05/24/2011 - 01:19 | 1304241 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Your anger blinds you, and thus YOU have a reading comprehension problem!

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 04:23 | 1304369 sherryw
sherryw's picture

You said it!!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:04 | 1303741 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

There's only a 'debt problem' if you prioritize paying off debt owed to insolvent, parasitical banker-gangsters to paying for Uncle Sam's obligations.

Why is it so important to pay them off?  Why not demand that they grant a Jubilee instead?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:40 | 1303943 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Everyone is dancing around the problem. Without a debt based interest tribute system the banks would shrivel and die. Without phony accounting and front-running and flipping and long-short treasury "arbitrage" and interest rate "swaps" and an hundred other scams they would be out of business. The effects of monetary inflation would be immediate instead of masking it behind a pile of debt instruments. I agree with Hedgetard55 on this point, let it burn.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 20:51 | 1303700 A_MacLaren
A_MacLaren's picture

That would be a little too much truth for the sheeple to handle, just yet.  If they can't wrap their American Idled brains around the deficit, and are couch potatoed by Debt Dancing with the Stars, how can the sheeple understand debt based fiat favor the bankstas?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:20 | 1304081 Mariposa de Oro
Mariposa de Oro's picture

You nailed it!  I've actually had people tell me they don't want to because its too hard!  Others have become angry and called me the usual names.  I figure they'll get what they deserve.  I'm still trying to decide what I'll say to them if they have the nerve to start asking me questions once the bottom falls out.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 00:26 | 1304178 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

Don't go with "Told you so".

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 01:26 | 1304243 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

How about:  "Please feel free to take your financial problems to your favorite Political hack (you know, the one YOU kept voting into office?), be they Republicon or Decepticrat -- I'm sure they'll be more than happy to "solve" your problem, provided you vote for them yet again!"

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:09 | 1303750 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture


Nor do the people here calling for 'austerity' (for the poor) on the basis of a cooked up 'crisis'. 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:20 | 1303923 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

sadly, agreed.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:42 | 1304000 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

For "the poor" read: ethnic group entitlements + public employee unions. Can you imagine? They actually asked those poor SEIU parasites in Wisc, to switch 8% of their $100,000/yr. salaries to their $50,000/yr. pensions. Austerity! Oh, the horror...Downwiththebanks, take your ethnic "poor" and gov't employees and shove them in a place where the sun doesn't shine. Along with the banksters, plutocrats, and Tribals.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 04:13 | 1304354 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

Whatever happened to the Law of Contracts, Mr. Compassionate Fascist?  

I suppose that in the face of a cooked-up crisis, some things have to go, right?  Especially when you're looking for genocide.

Nice job of ass-covering, too.  

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 07:27 | 1304448 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

So two sets of thieves who give each other money sit across the bargaining table and "negotiate" a "contract" detailing how much of the people's money they get. Yeah, that contract is sacrosanct but bond holders of GM... HAHAHAHA! Suckers!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 19:11 | 1303255 treasurefish
treasurefish's picture

This guy a complete idiot.  Bernanke already did raise our taxes with QE!!!  I haven't had a decent raise in a couple of years, and I'm not getting any bankster-level bonuses for wrecking our country.

I'm not paying ANY MORE charity to the Corporate USA than I already am.  Good luck getting any more out of me.  I REFUSE TO PAY HIGHER TAXES!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:50 | 1303842 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

no need - they'll just inflate away whatever you still have...heck they might even LOWER your taxes and then just destroy the dollar faster but hey, you got 3% less taxes on a dollar worth 50% less!!!  WINNING!!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:37 | 1303257 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Damn Fabian Socialists finally got the job done. Gubmint masters and the central banks become the manipulators of all resources, parceled out to the masses at their discretion....and all of it overseen by the BIGS. Too bad about all these riots, though.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:38 | 1303259 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Ah someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the central bank buying roughly 100% of debt issuance for an extended period of time a de facto default?  Hard to make an argument that there is a market for the debt if the central bank has to gobble it all up.

But whatever, default is inevitable.  It's not only political will, the mass man wouldn't want to cut.  Look at how much of the economy is transfer payments, gov employees, and the murder...err...defense complex.  To many people make a living off it.  System will keep on keeping on until it explodes into a spectacular fireball.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 19:33 | 1303405 tired1
tired1's picture

Who knows, we're in uncharted waters. I bothers me when I supposedly informed folks worrying about when China will cease purchases. But technically, since the composition of the Fed's ownership is unknown, most likely it's largly alien, so dont worry.

IIRC, even Peter Schiff was surprised by the brazen Fed's action

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 19:39 | 1303448 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Nothing new under the sun.  It's a fairly simple trick, relies mainly on stupidity and obfuscation, but not that elaborate of a trick.  I for one can't wait to see what entity or entities will end up privately owning all the public land the federal government owns right now.  Check out most western states and you'll see the Fed is the #1 holder of land, to this day.  What better way to have an asset fire sale then when the economy totally implodes?  Well I suppose the better way would be to have the mark give you the money free and clear to buy the asset from them...

Bu this phase doesn't end till all the wealth has been vacuumed out of the US, then the US it battered and shattered to suck the marrow out of the bones.  My watch sign is still when private 401ks and IRAs get seized.  After that we are all systems go for a total collapse.  No wealth in house, no wealth in savings account, no personal savings...yeah the mass man will eagerly be selling what little they have left to live.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:09 | 1303890 johnnynaps
johnnynaps's picture

boils down to everyone trusting corporations and their government! No pension/IRA/401k here! They can have my house if they want (too small anyway)! Wealth for me = 100+ bottles of alcohol, knowledge of how to grow the stickiest/smelliest ganja and a car/motorcycle that can't be tracked easily unlike the newer cars! Enjoy your slavery!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:38 | 1303260 Janice
Janice's picture

I'm not paying any more taxes.  I work too hard as it is.  Work like a dog for the government to take it?  Blue flu, work slow-down, I'd rather be in the garden. 


Figure out how to tax my tomatoes, bitches!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:36 | 1303263 Nicholaz
Nicholaz's picture

Hand over on tenth of your tomatoes or you'll go to the debt tower.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:49 | 1303283 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

More like one third.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:52 | 1303849 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

he can keep all the rotten ones

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 19:14 | 1303371 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

that's the way!

Go Galt, even in small ways.

Slowly suffocate leviathan.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:10 | 1303893 johnnynaps
johnnynaps's picture

Janice, you are a patriot!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:30 | 1304103 Mariposa de Oro
Mariposa de Oro's picture

No problem finding those 'maters.  UAVs (drones) are being integrated into the national airspace.  I can see the veggie cops confiscating your black market 'maters (see S.510) and arresting you for domestic terrorism.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 02:35 | 1304309 Xavier Doe
Xavier Doe's picture

You know, that brings up an interesting point.  As long as we've used our UAV technology judiciously in the past, trotting it out only long enough to kill a warlord or spy on a Taliban hideout, we've not exposed it to mass exploitation because the things are so damn obscure - who's ever been within 5-10 miles of one?

But something tells me that with these things the 'novelty' factor decays expoentially.  So, if the domestic Stapo does start blanketing the sky with drones, hoping to indulge their sickest / most wanton fantasies of power over us 'little people', or intending to harrass poor Grandma for growing her tomatoes without a FEMA Agricultural Permit...eventually it's gonna bite them in the a--.

Routing a passle of cave-dwellers in Kreplachistan is one thing, but taking the fight to thousands if not millions of red-blooded American citizens with beaucoup spare time on their hands and an overriding commitment of evening the score with Big Brother (using their advanced degrees from MIT, extensive weapons training, and all-around capacity for self-preservation) is not going to end well for the drone program.

Eventually someone's gonna figure out how to find and bring those things down out of the sky.

Or hack the things and send them flying into each other.

Especially if dire circumstances force whole communities of 'problem solvers' to band together to work the problem, deal with measures / countermeasures, etc.

So: here's hoping TPTB keep those drone thingies buzzing overhead a scarce, once-in-a-while 'treat' targeted at only the vilest, die-hard deviants among us.  Not only will it be better for frontier morale, it may even keep the technology viable for a real military encounter.  (Maybe... !)

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:39 | 1303261 SecondComing
SecondComing's picture

Turning and turning...

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 06:25 | 1304412 Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

...Things fall apart, the center cannot hold...

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