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Death of American Liberalism?
Too
tired to post a lengthy piece. I'm awaiting QE2 tomorrow, but given
that today is all about politics, I wanted to share with you an
absolutely brilliant interview which I heard on CBC's Current this morning:
American Liberalism - Chris Hedges
American
voters are widely expected to deliver a harsh message to U.S.
President Barack Obama at the polls today. Republicans who aren't
actually even popular appear set to re-take control of the House of
Representatives and to pick up enough Senate seats to make the
President's life difficult.
That may be bad news for American liberals. But according to Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and author Chris Hedges, they have a bigger problem. He says that American liberalism -- a once proud and politically potent tradition -- is dead. Chris Hedges is a Senior Fellow at The Nation Institute. He has just written Death of The Liberal Class. He was in our Toronto studio.
Click here
to listen to this interview. Listening to Chris Hedges reminded of what
the great social thinker, the late George Carlin, once said about why he
doesn't vote (clip below). I'll be back tomorrow, pumped following
another dose of QE.
to listen to this interview. Listening to Chris Hedges reminded of what
the great social thinker, the late George Carlin, once said about why he
doesn't vote (clip below). I'll be back tomorrow, pumped following
another dose of QE.
»
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What a completely useless waste of words. With few exceptions, reading this thread reminds me of watching a drunken fight outside a football stadium. Arguing for the sake of arguing with incoherent, barely recognizable spite dribbling from the corners of their mouths.
How can a well rounded, well informed, grown-up person be just one political animal? Or be so pin-headed that no other political opinions can be fitted into his/her political world-view? Surely you can be liberal on some issues, conservative in others, and socialist in the rest, etc? If you have read Karl Marx, then for fuck's sake read Adam Smith. If you have read Darwin, then for fucks sake read Malthus, or about the real lives of almost all of the greatest 17-19th century scientists who were inspired by the notion of investigating nature by their religious convictions.
As for bad ideas, disenfranchisement is a bad idea - one that conservatives should shed. So is corporatism - a government married and controlled by corporations is not a government for the people (duh!). As for the biggest problem in America: The fatalistic religious right and the obliging military industrial complex. I honestly cannot believe how many Americans pray for Armageddon to cleanse their nation of neighbours they consider "Unclean". When Europe sent their undesirables to the new world, there must have been a huge gene pool of the criminally insane in the mix. Or maybe it's decades of Thomas Midgeley's lead pollution. Take your pick.
Despite all the cock-eyed ideas about liberals from Americans, I can't think of one bad thing about the concept of being a liberal. Individual freedom, inclusiveness, and general compassion for fellow human beings are qualities to be lauded, not despised. Get that right, and you might turn out to be a half decent imitation of a human being.
The first sign of intelligence is when you can hold two or more opposing ideas in your head at the same time - ME
"How can a well rounded, well informed, grown-up person be just one political animal? Or be so pin-headed that no other political opinions can be fitted into his/her political world-view?"
And thank you for That! +1000
Party hacks and ideologues are pin-heads. Simple enough!
thi
October 18, 2010 Part II..."Slavoj Zizek: Far Right and Anti-Immigrant Politicians on the Rise in Europe"nker
.
http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2010/10/18/part_iislavoj_zizek_far_right_and_anti_immigrant_politicians_on_the_rise_in_europe
People here need to get some understanding of the real, esoteric forces which drive world history and politics. You’re all looking at the surface of things, but they’re just manifestations of deeper agendas which go back thousands of years. There is constant war in the astral planes between powerful wizards, which manifests in our plane as wars, revolutions, new religions, etc. This can be understood through a deep study of the esoteric teachings of the Kabbalists, Hermetics, Greek mystery religionsand others. The true history of the West is there, and the future can be understood by studying the writings of the prophet Aleister Crowley, who announced the dawn of the new aeon with his commandment “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.” The so-called NWO is very real, its members are a powerful occult elite, and their plan to end the Christian era and usher in a new age is proceeding on schedule.
Holy shit! Quick, look behind you!
That the Christians aren't also trying to take over the world, well, that would be a first. Every fucking organization is attempting to spread itself, what's new with that?
The cold war militarists (neocons today) also were trying to tell us that communism was going to take over the world. Clearly that didn't happen. Why? The answer is in the form of a question...
If <fill in the blank> is such a horrible system, and "horrible" is defined as something severely flawed, then how in the heck can anyone figure that it can be successful enough such that it can push out all else?
The answer is simple: it can NOT.
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed ... by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." - H.L. Mencken
check out the new video on youtube >> " End of Liberty "
also >> " Meltup "
This is one vampire you can't kill with a simple stake to the heart ... this one never dies.
Sorry, but Chris Hedges is a creepy neo-socialist guy who thinks everybody is a fascist except for him -- which is how he justifies disappearing them all if it were up to him. I've seen him on the circuit trying to sell books.
He's pixilated with a strange brew of Utopian Mysticism and paranoia and writes hit jobs for leftists. Hedges studied at seminary back in the day, but something wierd of a sexual nature must have happened to him while he was there because he's spooky. Always projecting and venting psychologically.
The death of liberalism is at hand because liberals killed it. There is no more money to redistribute and the whole world has embraced austerity to survive. Socialism has never worked, and even European socialism has now collapsed and governments are cutting back before there's nothing left -- so naturally in the name of liberalism -- the socialists and communists are rioting in the streets of Europe for more free stuff.
Here, the middle class has to rise up and take to the streets to stop the commies from looting the government. In an age of overconsumption, that sure seems like a welcome sign of intelligence. If that means the end of mindless liberalism, then good riddance.
Note to Chris Hedges: Since 1955 when records were first kept, conservatives yearly earn 55% more college degrees than democrats. The difference is so great that if democrats could have just kept up, there would now be no national debt and social problems would be nil. Paradise lost. (Joseph Fried 2008)
" so naturally in the name of liberalism -- the socialists and communists are rioting in the streets of Europe for more free stuff. Here, the middle class has to rise up and take to the streets to stop the commies from looting the government. In an age of overconsumption, that sure seems like a welcome sign of intelligence."
Not in defense of Hedges, but, rather, in defense of facts and logic...
Who in the US has been screaming that they'd take down the entire economy unless they got free stuff?
And, who is that that's saying that there's overconsumption in this "free market" society?
Ideologes always end up looking stupid.
"I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong." Betrand Russell
Not that I'd think you are Chris Hedges or anything, but, rather, since you like defense of facts and logic...
Fact: nobody said anybody in the US is screaming to take down entire economy- you just made it up
Fact: Free-markets are good, free-loader markets not good. I'm saying housing is an overconsumption mess. Sue me if you don't think so.
You missed the point anyway. The liberal socialist countries in Europe are so broke it's the governments that are forced into calling for austerity. The middle classes there that are rioting there because they still want their government goodies. (don't make me define goodies for you)
In America, the middle class is calling upon the government to do less, not more. It is upside down from Europe. That's the refreshing point, nobody is rioting. The electorate is behaving far more sensibly than the liberal central planners who are looting the treasury. (don't make me define looting)
The Tea Party started it almost 2 years ago, before Europe and the rest of the world. They were not only right, they were brilliantly first, by far. Putting the elite liberal idiots to shame.
They were before the EU, IMF, and G-20 called upon their countries to do undergo "austerity". Even before China literally laughed Geithner off the stage in Beijing in June 2009, shouting "show us the numbers!"
Bertrand Russell?? The turn of century progressive liberal who believed in forced eugenics? Dewd, he wouldn't die for his beliefs anyway, he'd make somebody else do it for him. Like Hedges does!
You're in such a hurry to condemn people that you miss the message... That's pretty typical of ideologues.
Bankers effectively pushing Bush to give them money:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/23374.html
Martial law would have been declared in the face of an economic collapse.
"In America, the middle class is calling upon the government to do less, not more."
Seems to be a wee bit of conflict here. How can the middle class be hollering for both help from the government and for less government?
As an anti-war vet I was exposed to enough of this hypocracy to smell it a mile away. The majority of pro-war fuckers never put on a uniform. And this is just like the majority of Tea Party folks who are comprised primarily of older fat white men who don't see anything wrong with collecting social security and medicare whlie demanding that the government spend less; never mind that they have no qualms about increased military expenditures or bailing out rich banking oligarchs.
"Fact: Free-markets are good, free-loader markets not good. I'm saying housing is an overconsumption mess. Sue me if you don't think so."
I do not believe that I qualified "free-markets" (stating good OR bad). What I said was that I thought it odd that free-markets could define over-consumption; they are, I was always told, self-correcting. And, that someone is claiming to know what any given level of consumption should be (as was stated in your posting that I replied to), well, isn't that a bit totalitarian?
Russell's quote is, regardless, one that more people should consider, lest they end up looking, well, dead. But, idealogues tend to prefer the dead thing (create wars which, end up looking just the same as eugenics [consider the US's continual wars against people of color]).
I applaud Chris Hedges' opposition to war, but he is stuck in the 1960s and 1970s: he's about the same age as myself & that is the era and mindset in which we were educated.
Wikipedia:
"In December 29, 2008 column for Truthdig, Hedges identified himself as a "socialist" in contrast to what he sees as "ruthless totalitarian capitalism."[7]
Hedges has the misfortune of knowing nothing about economics, about what "money" is and how it is created. How wealth comes into existence.
Like most other liberal intellectuals - including John Ralston Saul - he seems to believe that the free market is anathema, something that can be tinkered with and improved by man. This despite the fact that the free market is a creation arising out of the state of nature in which we all in fact live. (But for the grace of fossil fuels, we'd be in J.H. Kunstler's "Long Emergency" TODAY...)
He's a Marxist. He sees American society in terms of class, when the real dividing line is merely one of who has access to capital and who doesn't. Yet he never once questions fractional reserve banking and big government, the injustices it creates and the shifts in economic power it has permitted...
Does he support redistribution/theft of the earned income of some to support others?
Come clean. YES or NO...
And you are not? Because the "real dividing line" you suggest define two classes.
So as you see the US in terms of classes, you should be a Marxist.
Or it does not work for you?
Okay, it does not work for you.
Leo,
this Pal thinks the same:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbGOdON80Es&feature=related
"Death of American Liberalism?" Hardly, a viral infection never dies ... it just goes dormant.
George Carlin... always amazed by his talent..
never understood how nation of burger eaters could produce that..
RIP George.. you will be always remebered as MAN ..
alx
American liberalism isn't anymore dead than American conservatism was 2 and 4 years ago. As hard as small groups of politicians try to screw up long proud traditions, and vocal ignorant minorities rage in frothy hysteria every so often, the mighty middle of America always pulls us back from one edge or the other.
Soon enough, one party or the other, or another, will realize that there are 60% plus of us who could give a shit about politics that is more than a step to the right or left and give us something that is center based. My guess is it is coming this decade, and it will be the republicans who seize the middle, as the democrats go ultra-liberal bordeline commi and the Tea Party rips the current republican party apart in 2012 and takes the neo-nazis, errr, right wing nutjobs, ahhh, uber-cons, ummmm, morons, well, you understand.
American capitalism isn't dead either, not by a long shot. So long as we contain the cheating, or that is, keep the cheating restrained to stealthly stealing from foriegners, and not our own, then we'll be fine. We're good at that sort of thing.
Its not right Vs left
Its the state Vs you
LVM
Just fucking read human action and be done with it.
Close, but no cigar...
It's power vs. the powerless. Power wants to kill govt (which is "of the people") so that it has full control. Sadly, most of the right just don't get this point, opting, instead, to play handmaidens to the wealthy oligarchs (like Murdoch and the Kochs).
Agreed
Is there any group in the US that is acually planning to protest against QE2 coming out?
Who knows... Seems that the Left was active in crying out against bank bailouts, something that the Tea Party did NOT do (nor does it cry out against curtailing the wars of aggression).
the people... are angry about the other people...
The middle blames the poor... that is sooooo fucking funny...
20% un-employment costs $2 Billion a month...
$700 Billion in TARP funds pays for 29 Years of 20% un-employment benefits...
$2b divided by $700b ='s 350 months of benefits...
Now add in QE1, QE2 to infinity and beyond... but it is the middle mad at the poor... fucking idiots.
It was stated that only in America do those making $1 million a year tell those making $40k a year that those making $20k a year are the source of their problems. Divide and conquer...
Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains. - Winston Churchill
I'm of two minds about Chris Hedges. I've seen him brilliant at times, but when he tries his theories on broad strokes he fails to connect. Still worth watching. Thanks for posting it.
Actually, he's very good at identifying the issues/problems. He is not, however, and no one is, worth a darn on presenting viable "solutions" (because, well, because there are NO "solutions"- ours is not a static world, therefore there cannot be any "solution").
Leo,
The CBC is a vitriolic, anti-American, smug and elitist Canadian news organization which supports institutionalized liberalism. It is owned by the Canadian government (a Crown Corporation) and supported by Canadian tax paying dollars. Even media content rules are spelled out in government legislation that provides life support to this fine organization. Many of the individuals who are in positions of power at the CBC are throwback hippies from the 60ies with their anti-American slant, or draft dodgers who are now Canadians. Once the Conservative government achieves a majority mandate in Canada (currently a minority government), the CBC will be privatized and history. Given the probably results tonight, no doubt, the CBC was conducting a funeral dirge.
With respect to the show The Current, it portrays Americans as either nice "progressive" people, or banjo playing hillbillys and extremists, infested with far right bigited religious views. Unless you drink from the liberal kool aid, you're either an inbred or a bigot. Their favorite go to people are Naomi Klein, Ralph Naider, any US draft dodger they can find on the evening news, Kevorkian (an annual favorite) and any other "progressive" that they can scrape from the lower joints of the drain pipe.
If you were to take any of their programs from the last 5 years, and were to substitute in for the word "American", any other group, the majority of the comments made on the show would constitute a hate crime under Canadian law - I am not exaggerating.
Liberalism, once a proud tradition of moderate thinking, served a useful purpose to make society better. Today, it has become the siren call for human degeneration and self-centered narcissism.
Say what you want about the Tea Party Movement, but at least there is an attempt at trying to rescue the common good. I'm just afraid that it's too late economically.
Through liberalism, we've "progressed" to the point where common sense doesn't apply in law, the family unit (on which human civilization is based) is obsolete, moral relativism is the new religion and every person has their "rights".
We are not seeing the death of American Liberalism... it been dead for the last 40 years.
Your comment is stupid. With such things like this,
Moral relativism is the hallmark of the US. Since the beginning, the US has been expressing itself in moral relativism.
40 years is not the right time span for the death. Moral relativism hs been dead since the US inception.
North Americans are failing to perceive themselves as they are.
Great - enjoy the slide down.
Correction: moral relativism cannot be dead as it is ingrained within the US and is still kicking hard.
Savages were not moral relativists. They were not sold as moral relativists. They applied their morality absolutely, regardless of who was who.
The US went against them not because of moral relativism but because they disagreed on the moral set they applied. The savages morality was wrong.
This reminded, on the opposite, the US started as a moral relativist, applying its own set of morality relatively, depending on who was the recipient and this despite their morality set claiming otherwise.
The US started as a nation claiming freedom for all and maintained slavery. They claimed property rights yet stole like nobody else before.
This is what moral relativism is: a constant reassessment of morality relatively to the situation.
"North Americans are failing to perceive themselves as they are."
Exactly (can't look in the mirror). And that's that they're existence is wholly unsustainable. Correction is going to be a bitch...
Words of wisdom.
So, you're blaming Canada?
No... not at all. I was just refering to the program that was mentioned.
Canada is just stuck with institutionalized liberalism. The Canadian media is run by a grab bag of 5,000 or so, so called liberal intellectuals... many who were spawned and bred at the CBC. The National Post seems to be the only paper that presents a balanced view in the country.
Read Saving Canada's Right by Tasha Kheiriddon and Adam Daifallah if you want to understand the nuts and bolts of what I am talking about. It will shock you.
Well thought and well said. Don't write it off completely and forever. The truth always has a way of coming back.
On the economics, I fear you are correct. The debt and social obligations are too massive and we've waited too long for all but the most painful solutions. However, politicians can still make people believe all is well because it aligns with our natural desire to want to believe that and the difficulty in believing they would sell us out.
Well said!
Two thumbs up.
war is peace
slavery is freedom
ignorance is strength
Liberalism is not dead dammit.
Socialism is dead.
I've considered myself a liberal all my life. We are going to have to agree on what a "liberal" is.
A liberal, to me, pretty much agrees that the less intrusion (by anyone or anything) in their life is the best way to exist...so naturally they do not impose on others...would you agree or not?
Sleep on it first Leo ;-)
Well, neoliberalism is alive and well.
You are defined today as a Libertarian. Try not to take offense. We Vikings are no longer refered to by others as we would prefer either. The fact is an orange is still an orange, even in another language.
Stay Liberal.
Yes, my man. I'm with you on what is and what is not these days liberal, or even conservative for that matter. What is held to be either of those two in the present moment are absolute perversions of the historical reference points.
And interestingly enough, as one pursues each to its purest form, both rely heavily upon an original fundamental premise which you suggested; "...the less intrusion (by anyone or anything) in their life is the best way to exist...so naturally they do not impose on others..."
And before the horrific yelling screaming junking and thoughtlessness begins (Oh, and would little old me be so brash as to even suggest that the pot be stirred up?) y'all note that I refer to the purest, most fundamental ideological premise for such orientations, for both at their original roots, non-statist.
"The right most valued by civilized man is the right to be left alone."
"(Oh, and would little old me be so brash as to even suggest that the pot be stirred up?)"
;-)
"y'all note that I refer to the purest, most fundamental ideological premise for such orientations, for both at their original roots, non-statist."
Emphasis mine.
Exactamundo.
And to your final quote...because they will not leave me alone...I have made it a purpose in my life, to make their life, a living hell.
Political amens. I believe you own yourself and you cannot or should not be forced to serve another. Your last sentence in my mind means that we are all the captains of our own ship (life) and we sail where we please as long as we do not harm others.
Do what you wanna,
do what you will,
just don't mess up
your neighbor's thrill. - FZ
Liberalism is not dead. Socialism is not dead. Things are about to get a whole lot worse in the next year. You'll see how the gov't spigots flow. The grab for cash is on until there is no more cash. Get yours while you can.
I agree. Neither is or ever will be dead. They are locked in an eternal political struggle.
Classical liberalism is essentially what you describe. The American founders were pretty much all considered liberals. Liberal-liberty-libertarian=freedom and individual rights.
The modern liberal is actually a statist and generally socialist in their leanings. They might favor legalization of pot, gay marriage and a few minor things that could be considered liberal but most importantly they favor a large powerful redistributive state. So, the term has been confused and muddled. That is how Hitler ends up on the extreme right and Stalin on the extreme left. Actually, they were both lefties in two related forms of socialism, National (Nazi) and Soviet socialists. The far right are anarchists with no government. Libertarians are their more practical cousins.
Even the anarchists you see at the G8 meetings are not true anarchists. They want short term anarchy to usher in a strong socialist state. They are statists, as well.
Modern liberals purposely confuse the terms because all the worst leaders in modern times, i.e. Mao, Hitler, Stalin, Castro, Pol Pot, Kim Il Jong, etc are lefties.
So, when I have time I call myself a "classical liberal or modern libertarian type conservative". Best we can do.