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Debt Ceiling Talks Collapse

Tyler Durden's picture




 

5 weeks ahead of the day when the debt ceiling "extend and pretend" plan ends, talks have broken down, and in order to hike Congressional Nielsen ratings, this time seemingly terminally. From Reuters: "U.S. Deficit-reduction talks led by Vice President Joe Biden have reached an "impasse," House of Representatives Majority Leader Eric Cantor said on Thursday, adding that he will not participate in the meeting of the bipartisan group that had been scheduled for later in the day. Cantor, a Republican, said the group has identified trillions of dollars in spending cuts, but had been unable to resolve a disagreement over tax increases Democrats sought. A Senate Democratic aide said the two sides "need to continue talking", and were continuing to talk. But an aide to Senator Jon Kyl, a Republican member of the Biden group, declined to comment on whether the senator would attend Thursday's scheduled meeting."

 

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Thu, 06/23/2011 - 11:08 | 1394879 lawrence1
lawrence1's picture

Asked if Greece was a black Swan, Nassim Taleb responded that the fact that the people are not rioting in New York and London is the black swan.  The whore Republicans will insist upon austerity for the people but not for the bankers and their clients to share in the pain, and, of course, no tax increases, not even returning to pre-Bush tax cuts. 

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 11:20 | 1394952 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Of course those saintly demoncrats don't want to reach in our back pockets and funnel every last nickle we have to their cronies. You are an idiot if you think they aren't all in this together. What a dumb fuck, go back to the yahoo boards.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 11:39 | 1395052 lawrence1
lawrence1's picture

You assume you know my view about democrats without asking.  Democrats are bought, too, but at least they seem to have some concern about the middle class, for example, refusing to cave on Medicare.  So take your presumptions and  vile language and go yourself to some forum appropriate to your intelligence and temprament.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 11:51 | 1395088 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

The demoncrats don't give a crap about the middle class. If they did they wouldn't pursue policies that reward the mega corps and punish small business. They throw out tokens like welfare and medicare to keep people dependent upon them, all the while fooling dupes such as yourself into believing they care.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 11:57 | 1395117 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

This is why we need the government to shut down.

Neither party can cause much trouble if they dont have any government money to throw around.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 12:02 | 1395133 lawrence1
lawrence1's picture

So Republicans dont also reward large corporations?  Whose duped, you ignorant piece of shit.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 11:59 | 1395136 lawrence1
lawrence1's picture

So Republicans dont also reward large corporations?  Whose duped, you ignorant piece of shit.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 13:33 | 1395490 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Hey dumb ass. I think both parties are bought and paid for by the large corporations and don't give a crap about anybody. I am not a party person. People who believe the party line have very little intellectual capability. You seem to fit that category well, you have bought into the party line that the demoncrats actually care about the middle class.  What a pleeb.  Oh yeah take your vile language some place else... glass house dweller.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 16:06 | 1396333 lawrence1
lawrence1's picture

You talking about intellectual capacity?  Your language & poor reasoning skill suggest you would be lucky to score in the low normal range. And you are nasty son of a bitch to boot.

 

 

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 13:46 | 1395585 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

(D) and (R) tags are meaningless anymore. Neither party represents the people.

I have read each of your posts. You are a (D).

(D) and (R) are the problem. If you continue to believe that it is only a choice between the two and all will be well, you will be wrong.

From top to bottom the political class are bought and paid for by the financial class.

Both (D) and (R) in Washington only really want the power that the financial class has.

We must remove every elected official who places (R) and (D) before the people.

 

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 13:48 | 1395614 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Amen

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 12:12 | 1395197 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

No, both sides are equally corrupt and bought off, and no different, for all intents and purposes besides their specified role (D vs R).

You are perpetuating a red herring, the battle of Democrats vs Republicans.  We are way past that now.  The real issue in the world right now is record income and wealth disparity between the richest, and the rest of us.  Most people see that as more of a 'class warfare' issue than a D vs R issue.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 12:44 | 1395348 Clark Bent
Clark Bent's picture

Democrats are happy with their representatives. Republicans hate theirs, but are not inclined to vote for the insane Soros machine that is the Democrats. The elitist assholes are all the same generally, but there are about 75% of the electorate who are not represented by either party. The Tea Party, as I like to see it, is about transforming the Republican party into something that represents the country. To do this the Repub establishment must be overcome. For shit's sake, Jon Huntsman? Have you seen this assclown whining about civility? I think you could win the Presidency in 2012 on the platform that Fannie, Freddie, Goldman, and the rest of the boys are all going to joining Madoff. I'd like to see that candidacy. 

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 14:01 | 1395663 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

seem to have some concern...

Only faggots and sailors are named Lawerence...

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 11:08 | 1394881 vegas
vegas's picture

I hate to say this, but this time it may be different. House Repubs know that if real reform isn't forthcoming, and real spending isn't reduced, then it is "lights out" for them in the next election. Dems live in denial, so what happens to them is irrelevant.

Most likely scenario, IMHO, is sock-puppet Barry caves in the end and will do anything to get the debt ceiling raised.

 

Of course, all of this is a gigantic clusterfark, as asking any of these turds to do the right thing falls on deaf ears. My hope is the US defaults, government shuts down and never reopens again. Hey, I can hope can't I?

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 11:12 | 1394906 johnnymustardseed
johnnymustardseed's picture

Democracy and capitalism have failed... these fucks can stand and stare into the abyss and have no clue that the shit storm they are creating will swallow them and the banksters first. 

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 11:54 | 1395102 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Democracy may have failed.

The cleansing collapse which refreshens capitalism and wrings out the excesses and stupid investments ( and investors) was not allowed to happen.

This is not capitalism we have. We just have another variant of state directed economics.......statism I suppose.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 13:50 | 1395623 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I'm not sure that's being perfectly forthcoming about capitalism...  I think what has happened is the inevitable conclusion of rational actors attempting to prohibit the normalization of profits as competition increases...  unavoidably, this entails an increase in the size and scope of the government to create barriers to entry...  thus, picking the winners and losers.

If we can separate this process from the out and out theft that has been going on in recent years (in plain sight), then so be it...  but I'm not sure it's that easy.

At this juncture, I'm not sure the "clearing process" wouldn't just exacerbate the wealth gap...  obviously dollar holdings, nominally would be cock stamped, but the utility and assets purchased with these converted dollars may prove insurmountable to any attempt at a post collapse renaissance.

We've got some decisions to make...  none of them good.  Strange how life becomes an interconnected series of making least bad decisions.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 17:34 | 1396622 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

This doesn't sound right to me...at least not in the USA. 

In a capitalist system, one of the obvious outcomes is that control of capital increases relative power to direct society.  In the USA, the people who control the greatest sums of abstract wealth definitely wield the greatest power over the government, and they use this power to continue to increase their aggregation of wealth...and thus more power.

So that specific outcome aligns very well with capitalist objectives, EVEN THOUGH it ends up directing specific contradictory currents through design.

It's like "crypto-capitalism."

Anyway, "democracy" isn't something we've ever cared about.  This is a representative republic, and our politicians represent the interests of the owners of the country.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 12:49 | 1395367 Clark Bent
Clark Bent's picture

What bullshit, capitalism has failed. Understand that what you call capitalism is not an "ism" at all, unless it is something else. Freedom is not a system, it is the absence of a system. When free markets become captured by elites or politicians, they are no longer free. There are two systems, one where property is protected and individuals are equal as a matter of law, and then there is the whole broad spectrum of gaming this system to distort the first principles. All versions of socialism fall in the latter category. Anything that posits a collective is a con. 

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 21:58 | 1397288 anony
anony's picture

But how do you get this Ultimate Truth out and understood?

People I know, supposedly educated people, or at least in possession of an advanced study program like a college degree or two, have so little curiosity about the notions of freedom, capitalism, law, justice, the elite, politicians, and other serious matters that there is no hope that they will revolt.

The die is cast.  All that remains is for those who do understand what is really going on is for them to figure out a way to personally profit financially by it. The rest of humanity will literally have to go to hell.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 11:27 | 1394973 Note to self
Note to self's picture

Legalize dope (of all flavors) and prostitution and tax the living shit out of all of it.  I think both sides would agree that would be sufficiently regressive.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 13:47 | 1395608 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Then they will tax people growing their own.

I think the tax rate should be flat (for everything), but then again, sometimes I think a jubilee is a good idea, and that banning corporations in their current form would go a long way to solving our problems.

Did you know when corporations were invented they strictly HAD to have a limited life?  And they had to contribute to the public good, as a central part of their purpose?  Basically, society sanctioned the creation of each corporation but gave it a limited life (and a purpose, to keep it honest!) so that it could be kept in check.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 11:26 | 1394985 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

It is about time they quit bothering with talks.

Simply send barry soetero and the senate a debt ceiling increase bill from the house that zeros out the nea, npr, and pbs since they are clearly partisan.

Cut thirty percent of everything else.

Wait until one hour before doomsday to present the bill to the senate and president Soetero. Dare him to veto it.

If he vetoes the debt ceiling increase small government advocates still win.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 11:54 | 1395118 Uncle Keith
Uncle Keith's picture

Back to the topic at hand: Republican "Leadership" dropping out of debt ceiling negotiations like a Wholey Owned Subsidiary of the U.S. Plutocratic Elite.

 

Since taking the Grover Norquist Pledge to... well... Grover Norqust (read: NOT the electorate) the GOP refuses to sign onto any form of Progressive Taxation.

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, I postulate that this is the perfect formula for political extinction.

 

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 12:26 | 1395265 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

Proposed solutions have gotten so far away from the problems that no one can come to any agreements...

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 12:13 | 1395186 KickIce
KickIce's picture

Grandstand much?  In the end the puppets will obey their masters.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 12:34 | 1395306 New American Re...
New American Revolution's picture

So what if Uncle Sam can't spend money, Uncle Ben can.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 12:46 | 1395375 bankruptcylawyer
bankruptcylawyer's picture

i see so many comments showing people are upset about market movements. 

 

yes, you out there who think you are in the 'know' and are not the sheeple. if you are angry, it's because you are participating in something you don't fully understand. you are getting gamed by someone else, or by random chance. either way, you have not learned your lesson if you are angry about market movements. 

being ANGRY about where the market is moving is proof you are either unaware that you don't know what is going on, or more likely ( as the audience of this website knows who is in charge) that you have no self control and are addicted to risk that is shed off the big banks/fed/government/insider network of market manipulators. 

what you should be angry about it the state of control by the masters. and once you come to grips with that anger instead of letting it overwhelm you, you can start to accept what your choices are about where you want to be in this dynamic. ( you can be one of them, against them, or a dropout    and of course...a combination of all three! ). 

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 12:57 | 1395406 KickIce
KickIce's picture

Thank you Dr. Freud.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 13:32 | 1395550 bankruptcylawyer
bankruptcylawyer's picture

hahaha, yea, i was feeling very dr. like this morning. sorry about that annoying didactic crap. just tired of seeing people on here with comments like 'oh fuck, this is up , that is down, noooooooo!!!!!!!!!, buy silver, sell silver, no!!!!!!!'

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 13:47 | 1395606 KickIce
KickIce's picture

:)

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