Deep Thoughts From Paul Tudor Jones On The Sino-US Relationship

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Tue, 10/26/2010 - 15:47 | 678481 Rodent Freikorps
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I like Mark Steyn's characterization of this.

We are the new "native Americans." We are selling our country, and its resources, for trinkets.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 15:56 | 678505 King_of_simpletons
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Interesting read here: (Matt Taibi's Griftopia)

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:04 | 678532 Rodent Freikorps
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Just makes one want to cry.

Does rage come before, or after, grief? I can't tell anymore. I've been in a constant state of rage since 2006.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:51 | 678678 IBelieveInMagic
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The explanation in this article is simplistic and does not address the real issue -- it is perceived by other nations that the USD provides the US an unfair advantage -- China will continue to peg their currency to the US to level the playing field and will result in subjecting the US economy to the one pain that it can't avoid, that of massive job loss. If the US is so keen to devalue, easiest way is to encourage SDR or gold or some other commodity backed currency to be serve as reserve currency. Or this issue will be resolved when the system reverts back to bilateral trading system as it was before -- already it is happening in the margins with China - Brazil signing bilateral deals, etc.. 


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 17:00 | 678722 Rodent Freikorps
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I'd totally agree the pain is coming.

However, I can live without Chinese products. Really, I can.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:31 | 679736 LowProfile
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SDR?!  That is war.

Commodity currency?  Maybe.

Gold?  Hell yes, as a store of wealth and clearing currency.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:13 | 678558 traderjoe
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Interesting how Rolling Stone has had some actually interesting journalistic articles lately...

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 17:58 | 678858 Panafrican Funk...
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All this said, a 2% move in the RMB/USD shakes a lot less earth than a 2% move in the EUR/USD.  The media focus seems to be really focusing on the RMB, but the EUR/USD looks poised for a pretty big move over the next couple of weeks that will catalyze the rest.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 15:51 | 678492 Turd Ferguson
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Again, this is extremely funny and appropriate. Ignore the extra text.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:22 | 678540 traderjoe
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I like the part on the clunkers payment... - same clip as above without the text...

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 23:48 | 679667 Lucius Corneliu...
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That was hilarious

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 15:56 | 678510 Oh regional Indian
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First a war or words, then war.

The similarities from the late 30's early 40's is really startling to me.

German might was effectively created on American funds and tech (prescott bush, standard oil etc. etc.). 

First they built it up, then they had a bunch of other people fight their frankenbaby, then they went in and ritually slaughtered their own spawn.

Rhyming, not repeating history and I'm sure the tri-lateral division will become obvious soon enough.

But the dragon is breathing fire while the US is yelling FIRE!


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:11 | 678545 Rodent Freikorps
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In 2003, the Anti-Defamation League said:

“ Rumors about the alleged Nazi 'ties' of the late Prescott Bush ... have circulated widely through the internet in recent years. These charges are untenable and politically motivated. Despite some early financial dealings between Prescott Bush and a Nazi industrialist named Fritz Thyssen (who was arrested by the Nazi regime in 1938 and imprisoned during the war), Prescott Bush was neither a Nazi nor a Nazi sympathizer.[3][5]

That link is bad, but you can find it here it you give a shit about the truthl.


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:17 | 678569 Non Passaran
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I'm sick and tired of conspiracy bozos...

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:29 | 678595 Johnny Dangereaux
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That would be a Capital B, Jack Ass   adl....yeah, there's an unbiased "source"  

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:31 | 678602 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Are you serious Ratman? You and the guy below? 

The ADL as a source??? About the German Question? Really? Do you even know your source? You must be seriously programmed (yes, Mr. Bozo commentor below, you too).

Prescott Bush and his allies were successfully charged with Trading with the enemy. That is on congressional record. Their assets were confiscated. 

You should really study something, deeply even before putting your foot in your mouth like this. I won't even give you a link list, if you are an educated american, you should know. The enemy is within your doors.



Tue, 10/26/2010 - 17:34 | 678666 Rodent Freikorps
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Union Banking was owned by a Dutch bank, Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaardt N.V., which was "closely affiliated" with the German conglomerate United Steel Works, according to an Oct. 5, 1942, report from the federal Office of Alien Property Custodian. The Dutch bank and the steel firm were part of the business and financial empire of Thyssen and his brother, Heinrich Thyssen-Bornemisza, the report said.


No charges were brought against Union Banking's American directors. The federal government was too busy trying to fight the war, said Donald Goldstein, a professor of public and international affairs at the University of Pittsburgh.

"We did not have the resources to do these things," Goldstein said.

Fritz Thyssen broke with the Nazis in 1938 over their persecution of Catholics and Jews, and fled to Switzerland. He later was arrested and spent 1941 to 1945 in a Nazi prison. His brother lived in Switzerland from 1932 to 1947 but continued to operate businesses in Germany.

The best lies are half-truths, huh? Die besten Lügen sind halbe Wahrheiten

Any other bullshit you'd like to sell?

Sincerely, Freikorps Truth Brigade.,2933,100474,00.html


Fuck you, you Brahmin Elitist Fuck.

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:43 | 679756 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

If you believe all that, you probably also believe that Bernie Madoff is suffering in Jail and that Ken Lay is actually dead.

Also, first you quote the ADL and follow it up with your Coup de grace from Fox news?

You need an education and anger management Ratman. 

My sympathies to your friends and family.


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:35 | 678615 kato
kato's picture

any bush is a fucking facist idiot

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 17:47 | 678809 DaveyJones
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Uh... it's not as simple as two paragraphs. And how exactly do you define a sympathizer? Last time I checked, the US defines a "terrorist sympathizer" as anyone who assists financially. Wasn't that your defintion and justification for the Iraq invasion the other day? And their asisitance did not end right away:

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 18:20 | 678841 Rodent Freikorps
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Fritz Thyssen (search) was an early financial supporter of Hitler, whose Nazi party Thyssen believed was preferable to communism.

Just in case you missed it the first time:

Fritz Thyssen broke with the Nazis in 1938 over their persecution of Catholics and Jews.

Do you not realize the giant set of brass balls it took to BREAK with the NAZI party, in Europe, in 1938?

NAZI = National Socialist Party.

Get a clue, or be a useful idiot.

Nazi adj. of or pertaining to the Nazis; of Nazi beliefs, pertaining to Nazism; resembling Nazi ideas or behavior (History)
  n. member of the German National Socialist Party that governed in Germany under the leadership of Adolf Hitler from 1933-1945; fascist, one who adheres to ideas of Nazism (History) E. Roland Harriman, the bank chairman and brother of former New York Gov. W. Averell Harriman (search), held 3,991 shares. Bush had one share. What a fucking shock that Averell was a Democrat. I'm really starting to hate you dumb fucks, because I think you are just paid liars.
Tue, 10/26/2010 - 18:36 | 678951 DaveyJones
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Keep cussing and using useless words like "democrat," that adds to the objectivity and historical credibility 

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 19:26 | 679077 Rodent Freikorps
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I take it you accept the facts then?

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 04:29 | 679910 jesusonline
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These so-called "facts" that you keep spewing around are nothing more than bullshit coming straight out of your delusional and demented brain. Telltale signs of your rabies: foaming at the mouth, aggressive behavior, circling. The disease you've developed there is beyond help and can only be cured by a bullet to your mug.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:00 | 678522 trav7777
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Peg, bitchez

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:02 | 678524 Stuck on Zero
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The Author is astute.  Never tell China what to do.  We must not tell them what to do to change our economic problems.  If we are going to act it must be internally.  First add a value added tax onto all products entering the country.  Use the proceeds to fund our exports.  Secondly, reject most Chinese (mercantilist) products at our ports for the bad quality they represent.  Protect our consumers from tainted merchandise.  Third, without advertising the fact, let our companies know that they are to buy from U.S. suppliers or they'll never get another U.S. contract. Fourth, target ten key industries for R&D and subsidies and make sure we become the world leaders in these areas.  Fifth, make foreign companies operating in the U.S. pay taxes. Sixth, unjam the patent system. Lastly, make sure that bank loans are targetted at productivity exports, not M&As or real estate.

Do all this and the U.S. is on the way to recovery.  Vote for incumbents and it's third world USA.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:09 | 678546 traderjoe
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I like-y some. Take away the tax on foreign countries manufacturing here. Shouldn't matter the owners, just that they create jobs here. 

And I'd add that all foreign-held capital by US businesses can be re-patriated for free.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 17:17 | 678771 ThreeTrees
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Here is a domestic solution to this problem that can be set in motion unilaterally:  Stop printing money.


Massive imbalances of trade cannot, repeat, cannot form without inflationary credit expansion.  Stop focusing on the trees.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:05 | 678533 Kayman
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China not a currency manipulator- Tiny Tim.

China not a Fascist Dictatorship - Kayman

So... every thing is just peachy... No....  ????

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:06 | 678534 youngandhealthy
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Paul Tudor is talking BS. For an US citizen the RMB/USD might be the most important exchange rate in the world. But just as an example the total trade between EUR and China is bigger. The root cause of the RMB/USD problem is within the US itself. You borrow to much and liked to buy cheap shit...full stop.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:11 | 678552 kato
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Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:16 | 678565 youngandhealthy
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And you don't...because the Chinese balls are not limited to a place below's the whole body...that is how the Chinese politics works....peasant offers.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:17 | 678567 Rodent Freikorps
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Like hell.

Storm's coming.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:22 | 678580 Non Passaran
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Didn't we hear similar cra.. uh, predictions, about Japan in the 80's?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:13 | 678556 Zeilschip
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The US and China seem to have put something together.

That's why we probably haven't heard any rhetoric from China at the G20. It sounds logical, China can only increase GDP-per-capita by increasing domestic consumption.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:35 | 678570 frankTHE COIN
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Tudor, 1 Liberty Plaza Brother !

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:19 | 678572 NOTW777
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"The root cause of the unemployment woes is quite obvious. In the United States alone, in the last two decades, nearly six million jobs in manufacturing have been lost overseas."

how can you call it "obvious" and then fail to id it.  US has super high cost of labor due to unions, over regulation, refusal to pass tort reform and bloated, corrupt social programs.  The cause is liberal politics - high tax, high regulation, bs political correctness and corrupt connection between politicans and unions.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:38 | 678629 TonyV
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Everything that you just said is true for Japan and Germany but yet they both have low unemployment and a trade surplus.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:54 | 678700 spartan117
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Neither country has a reserve currency that can be used to purchase imported goods and allow for the avoidance of inflation due to the demand for said reserve currency.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:44 | 678652 spartan117
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Tue, 10/26/2010 - 18:45 | 678980 Bob
Bob's picture

I don't know about political correctness, but I'd have to guess that your math is incorrect, unless you think that Americans would, if not for the evils you so liberally cite, be happily and prosperously working for a competitive thirty cents per hour.  Or is that just more liberal bs? 


Wed, 10/27/2010 - 05:20 | 679863 Conrad Murray
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Legal definition of a dollar (Coinage Act 1792): ~24.1g of pure silver
Commonly acceptable wage in FRN: 15/hr
Commonly acceptable wage in FRN converted to dollars: 361.5g (~11.6ozt)
Price of silver in FRN right now: 23.67/ozt
Commonly acceptable wage in FRN when held to dollar standard: 275.14
15 / 275.14 = ~0.05/hr

You see, Americans are happily working for far less.  They are just too stupid to know it.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:25 | 678588 Sean7k
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Ultimately, it is all just a game. Played by people too bored to care and willing to sacrifice the serfs of their individual kingdoms. 

We can be pawns or we can remove ourselves from the board and have our own game. One where our labor, savings and investment mean something. It will require a revaluation of our capital in something of real value- production, services and sound money- that everyone will want and trade for. 

It does not require a government. It does not require a central bank. It does not require taxes, tariffs or other distortions. 

It is the essence of exchange. In a free market. Without intervention or governmental theft. 

The solution is simple. It is non violent. It will require persistence and perseverance. It can be done by one, all or any number in between. It has consequences. It may require sacrifice. The numbers are with us.

We merely must refuse to play, acknowledge or respect the rule of criminals. 

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:29 | 678596 lamont cranston
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Things sure have changed from 50 years ago when Bullwinkle The Moose used to take his wash to Ed Foo Young's Chinese Laundry in Shanghai.

Better exchange rate back then. Plus, free copy of Chairman Mao's Little Red Book with each $10 of dry cleaning.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:33 | 678601 Young
Young's picture


But, like zombies, many Americans still cling to the naive belief that we can return to the good times of the 90s and the earlier part of this decade, unable or unwilling to recognize that those high times were a debt-driven anomaly.

That's right equity investors, keep dancing. Dance retardedly to the music playing only in your heads.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:45 | 678646 crosey
crosey's picture

US and China are like 2 colliding galaxies locked in each other's gravitational field.  We cannot escape each other unless a significant outside force interferes.

China can and will go as long as they want.  They deal with internal discontent very effectively.  When they have had enough of their capitalist experience, they can raise the drawbridge, and go back to the beginning.

China will always's their mindset.  Even if that means feudalism.  So I have learned from my Chinese friends.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:44 | 678647 Ratscam
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How can a planet with finite resources have an economic system based on DCF models which assume perpetual growth? Times will change ...

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 17:45 | 678827 DaveyJones
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Math can be a bitch

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 00:20 | 679715 StychoKiller
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Is the surface of a planet the right place for an expanding
technological civilization?

Figure it out from there...

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 12:50 | 680804 the rookie cynic
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I agree.

Even if stimulus worked most of the time, there’s still the final back-breaker:  Exponential growth of debt requires exponential growth of productivity.

Denial of this fact will result in an “epic fail.”  Exponential growth cannot go on forever. It’s a finite planet, with finite resources.

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