A Deep Walkthru For Silver Manipulation - Redux

Tyler Durden's picture

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tmosley's picture

Thanks you for putting this up Tyler.  I was just needing something like this.

Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Did silver kiss $35 at high noon today?  Looks like a big wet smooch on the Kitco chart....

Ray1968's picture

Someone just completed a small double body-slam to silver... right at 2pm and 2:30

nope-1004's picture

I see that and am very thankful for it.  A warm heart-felt thanks out to Blythe!!!

Was going to buy later today, as $35 is next stop.  But now, she enabled me to buy EVEN MORE than I could previously afford.

I will be loading up in the next 10 mins.

Once again, thanks Blythe, you short-sighted imbecile.


nope-1004's picture

Ok, just bought.  $34.5 was entry, total was 5.5% above spot.  My supplier has good stock.  No, I won't tell you who it is.


suckapump's picture

Ok, just bought.  $34.5 was entry, total was 5.5% above spot.  My supplier has good stock.  No, I won't tell you who it is.

Color me stupid, but then why bother posting about it? Is this some kind of machismo display ceremony to which I'm not privy?

Ray1968's picture

I have to go to the bathroom and take a Blythe. I'll be back in a few minutes.

NotApplicable's picture

Why Globex hate PMs?

Seriously though, with this kind of run-up you have to expect some short-term momentum plays going for the easy "money," else this is the SHTF moment.

Windemup's picture

Looks like someone is testing how deep the water is. Support buying followed promptly. Perhaps sell off isn't ready yet.

william the bastard's picture

Aren;t there some babies need aborting in Dallas? :[

Spalding_Smailes's picture

He can't debate Spalding ( the delivery boy ) on Dollar Denominated Debt, he's got nothing ... What do you expect.

Dollar denominated debt bitch ~ slap's all doomers.

The great chemist ' at DiFusion Technologies Inc can't match  Spalding knowledge on finance. He's a gold troll !!!




tmosley's picture

A delivery boy can't tell the difference between the people he talks to.

I don't give a shit about dollar denominated debt one way or another, nor do I care to read about your position on it.  I just don't care what you think, because you are just another loser who does nothing but lose money and deliver the occasional sofa set.

Spalding_Smailes's picture

You don't care about it ( dollar denominated debt ) because it crushes everything you thought you knew or posted on finance.

All your doomer post " up in smoke " ......... LOL'

tmosley's picture

I am under no obligation to indulge the likes of you.  All you do is lose.  Lose that money.  Good thing you have a "friend" who throws you money, otherwise the only "loads" you would be delivering would be around the back of the local 7-11.  In fact, I'm not convinced that isn't the case.

Spalding_Smailes's picture

Nice non • answer, again. It's soooooooooo easy making you look like a fool®.


Notice the junks up top. " 32 " for red neck --------- Spaldings not getting junked. Everyone is watching, waiting for someone to set the delivery boy straight on dollar denominated debt. 

Your doomer cred' is on the line.


All your years posting on Gold on seeking alpha, ron paul's web site, ZH, and Spaldings whipping your ass in the basement of Fight Club. A delivery boy, to boot ........

william the bastard's picture

Mose the lose has over 4,800 posts on ron paul forum.com !@!! I mean what a fucking life this loser douche has. Nobody reads his shit!!!

Spalding_Smailes's picture

William, you can read me, no ... ?


I'm giving every hyperinflationist a chance to blast Spalding. They can't. 


How stupid do they look. Thousands of post on ZH on the great dollar crash. All the fed bashing.


But not 1 doomer can debate Spalding on this issue !!!!

traderjoe's picture

First, are you referring to yourself in the third person? 

What is your argument about dollar-denominated debt?

The fact that WTI Crude is up 2.5%+ today alone, even though nearly every data point suggests Cushing is overflowing with the stuff, how does that work into your theory of dollar-denominted debt?

Spalding_Smailes's picture

What's my point... ? Oh ya, oil is priced in / traded in dollars also, thanks for the reminder .... Countries must acquire more dollars for those oil purchases, Japan ect ....... Thanks for making my point.


The dollar is not crashing. No hyperinflation. Central banks, the global banking system, businesses, people all owe debt's in dollars. They can't pay back dollar debt's with yuan , euro's , they must borrow more dollars so they can service said debt's. They all continue issuing " new " dollar denominated debt's yesterday, today and will do the same thing tomorrow....

Countries ( China, Brazil, ect .. Businesses CAT, GE, Mitsubishi, Komatzu all the global big boys .... The entire global banking system / letters of credit / forex / commodities continue using dollar denominated debt )

This insures a thirst / need for dollars for many, many, many years ............ No crash looming with this need.



So as the things start getting better ( housing will rebound at some point, ect ....... ) And with no crash coming for the dollar this means gold / silver are in a bubble, sure silver / gold  has been up before and guess what like everything else they will drop again. This time is not different , the dollar is not losing the reserve status. One quadrillion of obligations , not enough gold in the solar system that can support 1 quadrillion this is why the dumped said dollar in the first place. They built a global web of forex trade / finance / global banking / fiat /letters of credit ect ... ....

traderjoe's picture

Speaking of avoiding arguments, you did not acknowledge my question of the 2.5% rise in crude, today alone. This would eliminate almost a year's worth of interest on a 5-year UST. 

You completely fail to acknowledge that there are other factors that are impacting the supply of dollars. Over-supply of dollars is causing them to depreciate. Thirst for dollars? Nah. 

Things start getting better? Where? And then you argue that there's so many obligations it cannot crash? Huh? I could quote substantial history that EVERY fiat system has collapsed. We've defaulted on the dollar twice this century alone. 

Is all of that really an argument?!

Spalding_Smailes's picture

Always been an over supply of dollars 1 quadrillion, no, its the global reserve currency, many dollars needed / wanted.. So Ben's QE3 will do the trick now, everyones about to run from the dollar , now .............. ???


What about oil, its a ( trade / bet hedge funds ect ......) like everything else, the big boys trade it. Not Ben's problem. Also all the suppression via dollar peg's force those countries to purchase more and more dollars.

China stops buying, o.k. the manufacturing complex / banks get blowtorched because they borrowed at suppressed rates. Riots / chaos overnight in China. They can't dump.


.................. " Take the most obvious example, the PBoC itself.  The central bank officially has about $2.5 trillion in reserves.  This by the way almost certainly understates its true position but let’s ignore that for a moment.  The PBoC has funded this position with an equivalent amount of RMB liabilities, which makes it very vulnerable to changes in the value of the currency.


Rate addiction

In fact there were strong rumors last year that the PBoC was technically insolvent as a consequence of the 20% increase in the value of the RMB against the dollar during the 2005-08 period of currency appreciation.  Weirdly enough, although the numbers are huge, it has proven difficult to convince anyone that the PBoC is not the richest institution in the world, and that it is actually very vulnerable to big losses (although I notice that Sovereign Trends’ Terrence Keeley, in an OpEd in the Financial Times Tuesday, seems also to have done the numbers).

The problem for the PBoC occurs not just because of the currency mismatch but also because it needs repressed funding costs to keep it profitable.  How much do the PBoC foreign currency assets earn?  I would guess probably between 3% and 4%, maybe less.  The RMB funding cost, on the other hand, is roughly between 1.5% and 2.5%.  This leaves the PBoC with a net positive carry of between 1% and 2%.

If the RMB appreciates by as little as 2% a year, in other words, the PBoC runs a negative carry on its assets.  Every further 1% increase in interest rates, or additional 1% rise in the value of the RMB, then, erodes its capital by at least $25 billion (annually, if it happens through an increase in interest rates).

Let’s assume, for example, that over the next two years we see a combined appreciation and interest rate increase of 10% (let’s say a 2% increase in interest rates and a 4% annual appreciation), which is, in my opinion, the absolute minimum that China must do to slow down the worsening domestic imbalances.  Assuming no change in the rate earned on reserve assets, which in fact may decline, this means that the PBoC’s net indebtedness would rise by over $250 billion, or roughly 5% of the country’s GDP.

These kinds of number quickly add up.  And of course it is not just the PBoC that has this addiction to repressed interest rates.  Many years of very low cost borrowing has created a huge dependency on low interest rates among SOEs, local governments, and other creditors of the bond markets and the banks (not to mention the banks themselves), all of whom are directly or indirectly funded by long-suffering households. " ....................




So who's in the drivers seat ... China ? The E.U. is a mess also ...........


EscapeKey's picture

Chinese debt issues are internal. The American are not. The EU deficit+debt total is below the equivalent of the US.

Fucking over your own population is an order of magnitude easier than another major power. Read Reinhart/Rogoff's "This time is different" if you question why.

The US in the drivers seat? Yeah fucking right. Keep drinking that k00l-aid.

Spalding_Smailes's picture

China's M2 going up 20% a year.

The USA M2 ... 2%. They are doing some serious printing in China, you don't think they are in trouble ?


They are just building shit so they can keep everyone working, as Huge Hendry , Chanos said , construction now 80 % of GDP. The suppressed rates keep the manufacturing complex busy.

Everyone thought " oh my " China stole our manufacturing. Kissinger ... Pssssss China suppresses your currency and take it, its yours.


Now who's laughing , the suppressed rates force them to take our global currencies inflation. Inflation is a much bigger issue for all the countries around the globe. Just like we sold off bad debt ( cdp's-siv's ) on a global scale now because of the peg's we export our inflation.

EscapeKey's picture

So you rest your case on the Chinese situation being completely unsustainable, and hence the status quo is sustainable???

Once the Chinese breaks the peg, yeah they'll have hard times coming up. Exports will drop. Imports will in relative terms become cheaper, however. Regardless, they run a substantial surplus, and can most likely cushion the fall.

The US, however, will see the price of imports skyrocket, especially necessities like oil. And since she runs large deficits, with huge debts, will find it extremely hard to raise the capital in the open markets. You're not actually that naive you think the Dollar will still be the reserve currency when this happens, right? It most certainly won't, and hence, the US can't simply print the shortfall.

EscapeKey's picture

You forgot to mention how, despite having to acquire Dollars for the trade, which will boost the worth of the Dollar, the transaction is in fact entirely sterile, as the acquired Dollars will all be sold off at the other end of the transaction. So, in fact, the Dollar is both strengthened, and neutral, depending on which bollocks statement you post.

That, and all the other great Bernanke lullabys.

/I don't know wtf's going on, I was wasting my time replying to Spalding, your post wasn't even up when I replied. And it's not the first time I see these oddities.

tmosley's picture

So THAT'S your argument?  Christ, talk about a letdown.

People have debt in dollars, therefore, no hyperinflation?  Guess who else has debt in dollars?  The government.  Guess who has political control over the printing press?  The government.  Guess who has been printing like mad to fund Keynesian projects?  The government+ the Fed.

You make no argument to deal with all the money coming from the Fed.  You WOULD be correct if the Fed wasn't printing money.  All the new money that comes from debt issuance would be destroyed upon repayment of the debt (except for defaulters, which is how inflation from this money source stays in the system).

What you don't understand is that the Fed has been printing money.  That money has been given to various people who through various means of varyingly questionable legality, and has found its way into the stock and bond markets, and into commodities.  This is causing SOME inflation.  Not the hyper variety just yet.  Where that comes from is when the market sees all this money printing going on.  The market (including sovereign wealth funds) realizes that they are being diluted out of all their dollar denominated assets.  So they buy real stuff, like gold, silver, and FOOD on the commodities exchanges.  This drives the prices of these things sky high.

Now you ask yourself "So what?"  A few people starve, and everything goes back to normal, right?  WRONG.  You really think the Feds are going to allow people to starve in the streets?  You think they are going to stand for $10/gallon gasoline?  You think they are going to stand for the elderly freezing to death in the winter because they can't afford heating oil?  NO!  So instead, they print more money to distribute to the general public, to "save" them.  This is where the wheelbarrows full of money come in.  This reinforces the vicious cycle where more money printing begets more money printing, until everything falls apart.

Bam, hyperinflation.

Now go deliver your fucking shinebox.

EscapeKey's picture

The first questions are already being asked of the Dollar.

The Dollar is dropping with rising geopolitical instability. That's a first. It's usually a flight to safety, but what we see now should frankly make even the most ardent, biased, Bernanke cock-gobbling ZH poster take notice.

Spalding_Smailes's picture

Every fucking moron speaks of hyperinflation. When, when does it start ? When .......... We have been printing for years ? When's it starting, if you were right it already would have started. Everyone knows the dollar count over 1 quadrillion, whats the tipping point / sudden stop / timeline ... ? Or are you just guessing ?


So everyones buy " things " because they don't want the dollar .... ? Like I said type in " dollar denominated debt into google search news. Everyone tripping over them selves issuing new debt.


I care about the poor, but its not Ben's fucking problem. They can break the peg, its the host countries problem if they are importing inflation. Break the peg, no inflation. But the real question is " what are they waiting for ? ". The answer, they can't break the peg, the host banks / businesses depend on suppressed borrowing rates. 

They all have fiat ( below ) the dollar , dollar falls , guess what they all implode first Brazil , Russia , China , Japan ... So now we are talking ( global reset ) I never said that could not happen. But you will never see the world extract from the dollar obligations without causing armageddon. They can't just stop buying and move onto another currency / basket without a total blowout. China would implode , ect they do not want this they want the status quo -

akak's picture

You can splash your fingerpaints and green linen confetti all over the subject here, but in the end it is a logical as well as indisputable historical fact that overspending governments with exponentially expanding debt end up devaluing or destroying their (fiat) currencies --- EVERY one, without exception.  The USA will be no different.

Go learn a little history, then come back here before you spout off relentlessly expounding on topics of which you clearly understand exceedingly little.

GoinFawr's picture

Here, allow me to sum up Spaulding and co.s entire argument:




(repeat, and again, and again, and again until you start foaming at the mouth and fall over backwards)

Well, have I got some news for little snot faced boys like you SS:

"You people, you sit there... you're in for one helluva surprise."

-Christopher Walken


Spalding_Smailes's picture

Another Dufus ...


Tell me how I'm wrong. But its o.k. if all the doomers call for a dollar crash day after day but yet it never happens . Once again, pull out a 10 years dollar chart. What massive dollar crash, after the largest credit implosion in currency history. Trillions. What crash .... But its coming, right, it's coming SOME DAY SOON.... Lol

GoinFawr's picture

Yah, the dollar is doing great. Down 70% against silver. Down the hardest it's ever been against gold. Shit, even against its equally worthless peers its lost 15% since last june. Yep, things are going great for the good ol' USD.

Where you been, fool?

Spalding_Smailes's picture

Try buying some equipment from Cat with gold or some oil. Try buying gas at the local gas station. 


Open your eyes, can gold support global trade or the forex market ? Can it support all the global transactions that happen day in day out. Nope.


What , about 5% of the global population even have gold and is joe six going out buying gold ( at 1,400 ) with all his dollar denominated debt obligations ??? Most ZHers can not buy gold at this price. They need their host counties currency so they can live life. And that means more dollars needed.

GoinFawr's picture

Hey idiot, I was giving you valid, tangible examples of how the USD is losing purchasing power, 'crashing', which you claimed wasn't happening. Nice try, dipshit. 

Spalding_Smailes's picture

I just bought a loaf of bread for 75 cents ..... What crash , hyperinflation ???


What was the price in 2000 maybe 60 cents ? Wow ....... wow .


Does joe sixer care about the gold / silver / dollar ratio ... ? Nope , does Cat , GM , Ford ... Nope.

tmosley's picture

The loaf of bread you bought in 2000 for 60 cents is $2.50 today.  Stop using substitution, you disingenuous asshole.

traderjoe's picture

Really, that's your argument about gold? Dumb fuck. 

Sugar was up 4% today alone. Look at YTD charts of cotton, etc. That's a dollar collapse. 

Your arguments are silly, and extremely boring. "Ignore" button for you...

Spalding_Smailes's picture

O.K. Joe - Tell me how gold can back global trade , finance, forex .... Tell me how ?


Can you refute my post , nope. Sigh , go back glee just came back on, hurry.

akak's picture





O.K. Joe - Tell me how gold can back global trade , finance, forex .... Tell me how ?

You are such a flat-out fucking IDIOT!

You want to know how and why there is PLENTY of gold to back ANY economic or financial system?  It is simple, you disingenuous dipshit: it's called "revaluation".

Is there "enough" oil in the world at 20 cents per barrel?  No.  Is there enough at $100 a barrel?  Yes (at least for now).

Really, this "not enough gold" argument is so easily discredited, and has been discredited so many times, that anyone bringing it up is just demonstrating either their profound economic ignorance, or more likely, is simply shilling and trolling for TPTB.

But I know you don't care, you are here just to spew lies and troll against those seeking honesty and the truth.

tmosley's picture

You're not paying attention.  Haven't you read about all the unrest we have been seeing in the Middle East?  It is going to spread, as food prices continue to rise.  The corrupt governments that print will last longer than the corrupt governments that don't.  Everyone will see this.

Why haven't they broken their pegs yet?  Because the demonstrations haven't spread to their capitals yet.  Once they do, they will be forced to break the peg, or get torn apart by the mob.  The second the first one breaks that peg, everyone else will as well, not only to avoid the riots, but to try to keep from losing all of their purchasing power.

You've got a big problem.  It's called normalcy bias.  You think that because it hasn't happened yet that it can't.  That is where you are very wrong.

But hey, feel free to die.  I don't give even a fraction of a shit about you.

Spalding_Smailes's picture

Commodities are a trade like everything else, the traders are in every commodity pit bidding up everything.


They can't break the peg or the banks get blowtorched, they borrowed at suppressed rates. 


Stick with your " what ifs - some day soon - just around the corner " ...... They continue issuing new debt in dollars , everyone, no plans for said dollar dump, it would have happened already. They have no plans to dump the dollar cb, banks global businesses issuing dollar debt 5-10-20 years into the future,  ( fact. ) Not a what if ....

akak's picture


Even if "they" do not plan to dump the dollar, fiscal and monetary reality will have its way regardless --- and all logic and historical precedence leads to the future decline and/or fall of the US dollar, as indeed we are witnessing in process today.  Just because it does not happen overnight or in some blinding supernova burst of fiat implosion that somebody even as dull as you would have to acknowledge does not mean that the process is not already well under way.

Spalding_Smailes's picture

Its under way now. Was it under way in 2007 when oil hit $150 or did we see that high price because of the traders / hedge funds ?

Frommer on Hedge fund live trades Diamonds , gold , futures in the millions ( small fund ). 30 million.


Its the big boy global traders moving , oil , credit default swaps .... 

tmosley's picture

They are a trade for some people.  For others, they are life and death.  When people are threatened with starvation, they WILL tear down ANYTHING that they perceive as contributing to it.  The government WILL be the first stop, and the dollar peg, for those nations that have one WILL be the first thing to go.  They won't have a choice.  That is all there is to it.

There are no "what ifs" involved here.  It's happening right in front of your face.  But hey, who cares about that?  Lets get out there and deliver some asshole politician's furniture, right?

By the way, how is it that you are posting now, in the middle of the day?  Shouldn't you be making deliveries?  You sure are doing a lot of typing for someone that is supposed to be in a truck.  Don't tell me you were LYING about the number of loads you are getting each week!

Spalding_Smailes's picture




I do not like debt & I feel real bad for the poor ( I volunteer myself  ) Capitalism does not really care about the poor, they are exploited in this country, Mexico, China all around the globe. 


But I have learned from reading ( Confessions of an Economic Hit Man • Trillion Dollar Meltdown Ect ......) that we are stuck.


Things are not changing unless we have a global reset , this will mean Armageddon.

tmosley's picture

This isn't a matter of caring or not caring.  This is a matter of facts.  The fact is that hungry people riot until they are fed.  Governments fall quickly to riots fueled by hunger, as we have seen.  All that remains is for rioting to spread to Asia.  Then it will all be over.  Faced with the certainty of collapsing today to the riots, or the possibility of collapsing tomorrow due to export sector destruction, they will chose tomorrow every time.

And it will be too late for you to do anything.  You will just wake up with nothing one day.  Nothing you own will be worth enough to buy ANYTHING that is traded internationally.  That is, unless you are smart, and own gold/silver.

You have no idea how lucky we are that the military stepped in in Egypt.  Egypt has a dollar peg, and could well have started the rout, even with its small size.  It may yet.  It or any of the other nations that are descending into violence while you deliver nicknacks to your local Chicago politician.

It may mean Armageddon, but I don't think so, at least, not outside of the US, or the West in general.

Spalding_Smailes's picture

When did the riots start 2 - 3 weeks ago. They are under a dictatorship. It's not just because of the food this shits been building for years. This is not the start of hyperinflation.

If they drop the peg, that county goes by, by, end of story. Then you have total chaos in China or Brazil, banks / central banks get blowtorched overnight. You think they do this , when ?



tmosley's picture

You think China isn't a dictatorship?  Interesting.

Hmm...no rioting for decade after decade, then, a month after food inflation takes hold, you start getting riots and collapsing governments.  

You should throw your hat in to be the next queen of De Nile.

You keep claiming that that the drop of the dollar peg is definitely the end, but there is ZERO proof of that.  All it will do is hurt their banks and their exports.  We have examples where that has certainly not been the end of the world when those sectors collapsed (Iceland most recently).

You just don't get it.  This isn't a choice between peace under a dollar peg and anarchy without.  It is a choice between violent overthrow of the government and POTENTIAL anarchy without the dollar peg.  You are counting on politicians to refrain from delaying the day of reckoning.  That is never a good bet to make.

It will happen as soon as there is a serious set of violent protests in Beijing, or a large enough number of small countries with large USD reserves and/or dollar pegs.