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The Definitive Guide On Physical Gold
It has been a while since we published Passport Capital's exhaustive report on gold. Now that the LBMA's favorite chemical element is once again as notorious as ever, it is time readers again refamiliarized themselves with this definitive guide not only on the pros and cons of owning the shiny metal, but the history of gold through the ages, and why, as John Exter famous Pyramid correctly predicted long ago, when the Kondratieff winter's Minsky moment approaches, physical gold will be all that's left. This is not a gold sales pitch: it is an analysis that everyone who is concerned about the fate of fiat currency should read.
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"Gold and silver by nature is not money, but money by nature is gold and silver." -Karl Marx
oh and just to let everyone know and not freak out like i just did an hour ago. i do a TV comcast guide search for times of WC matches on ESPN. see nothing on saturday for USA vs England. WTF.
it is on CBS on satuday, channel 7, here.
so it is all good, O K.
I'm pretty sure that not knowing when the most boring sport in the world was being broadcast on TV on a 75 degree day Saturday in the Bay Area was not going to cause any "freak out." The funny thing about US soccer fans is they are so defensive; you call the sport boring and they launch into a 10 minute lecture on how "it really isn't" and "once you're into it" it's really exciting. My eyes glaze over, even a discussion about how not boring soccer is, is dreadfully boring.
I was sure baseball season was over.
If you sat down someone who had never seen or heard of either sport and made them watch a game of baseball then soccer/football, I bet baseball loses everytime when asked which is more exciting
Watching baseball is like watching continents move [as said by one of ZH commentators a day ago]. Going to a football match is an experience [especially attending the games such as Real-Barcelona, Celtic-Rangers, Milan-Inter etc etc]; going to a baseball game is an act based solely on whether or not there is a 1$ Hot Dog Day.
you should watch it, my sister told me it would make me sleep.
No, I turned on golf in grad school for a guaranteed nap.
You could try some lipstick-red seconals. Or chew some valerian root.
got any, i got cash.
quaaludes, even better.
valerian root, pussy stuff.
This is just the close minded U.S. view of soccer/football. As you are probably aware its one of the most watched sports in the world. We aren't all so close minded.
We all know that the US is the epicenter of the universe, and therefore, by default, our North American sports are "number one", so "joe six-pack" would never consider the world soccer (football) cup a serious sporting event ...
<sarcasm off>
I love "soccer" and I'm an American. Played it in high school, followed it closely ever since. I just wish the players would stop flopping like it's a diving competition, and the thumb sucking after goals is disturbing on more levels than I would care to go into. Suffice it to say that it will never be a really popular sport in the U.S. For one thing, there are no commercial breaks during play, and Americans love to watch commericials. Also, there is not enough scoring to keep the average American interested. If they widened the goals by 50 feet and forced the goalies to stop shots with their faces, Americans might watch it. Assuming, that is, that they crammed 20 commercials into every 5 minutes of actual play.
Heck yeah! No pads or face mask for goalies (maybe barefoot as well). Now that's sports!
Soccer is just like rugby, but made for the more effeminate men.
Rugby is like hurling, except they need a cushy 'field' to play on.
I used to do hurling, back in high school after a night of Annie Greensprings.
Prozac makes baseball possible. Our water is loaded with prozac over here...
If I can't get to sleep, I put on a baseball game.No better TV sleep inducer available
Been wondering where you were.
Been trapping skunks Colonel that have been killing my baby barred rocks.
Stinky duty. Getting ready to head to the farm back east and see what kind of trouble I can cause there..Get to do some 800 yard TP too...
The best thing about going to a soccer game is the lottery about which fan is going to get mauled or if the refs will live through the entire game or not.
The World Cup schedule I have here in front of me says the England v. US game is at 2:00 PM Eastern time on ABC on Saturday.
S. Africa tied Mexico 1 - 1 in the opener.
...
Oh, buy gold! If you do not have any, then buy some gold now. NOW!
Can we not all agree that WATCHING baseball, soccer, or golf are equally soul-sappingly boring?
Y O U mr. UK
your going to get a V E L O K I C K right in the nuts, especially your comment about woman allowed to vote. go away with your turban.
velo, I think his avatar is one of those Mohammed cartoons that pissed off the Arabs (in the Danish newspaper maybe?) so much.
I think it's pretty cool, making fun of suicide bombers and nutcase Muslim fundamentalists.
still he has been dissing woman and our right to vote and own property etc. on other treads.
i forget what you call those kind of men. he is one. don't get caught up in the avatar, read the words.
I didn't say women shouldn't have the right to vote, I said letting women vote brings us socialism (because women like it more than men). So if a person didn't like socialism, that person might be against women voting. Personally, I love socialism--can't get enough. I also find you attractive.
And I have no problem with women owning property--I said women don't care much one way or the other about property rights, so when women are given the right to vote it dilutes the strength of property rights. Those are different things.
I'm not anti-women, at all. In fact, I've given money to help stop women's suffrage for years now!
I'm tempted to label you a moron, but that seems a bit gracious.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/nations-soccer-fan-becoming-insufferabl...
Actually it is supposed to be a scorcher tomorrow in San Jose and the game starts at 11:30 am so I can still enjoy the rest of the miserably hot day. You can bet I will be hammered at the local expat Brit pub chanting "Don't Tread On Me!"
O H
i am just really dumb
A B C
sorry. is it astro-turf or real?
V E L O K I C K
yeah like that new name for it, especially watching the french play.
In total agreement!
But shouldn't the name associated with Marx be Lenin, not Lennon?
I traded some stuff for Gold and Silver today. I had to reinvest it all in Health and Mana potions.
As a mage, my toon is able to create health and mana out of thin air. If this could be harnessed to create money, I would enter a ticket to get his name changed to helicopterben.
Dr. No
A Mage with high Herbalism still requires raw materials.
Even Helicopter Ben needs wood pulp and ink, whatever raw materials are in paper/ink and protection strips, to create dollars.
Alphonse Elric (Introduction, episodes 2-41): Humankind cannot gain anything
without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must
be lost. That is alchemy's first law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we
really believed that to be the world's one, and only truth.
Edward: Alchemy; the science of understanding the structure of matter,
breaking it down, then reconstructing it as something else. It can even make gold
from lead. But alchemy is a science, so it must follow the natural laws: To
create, something of equal value must be lost. This is the principle of Equivalent
Exchange. But on that night, I learned the value of some things can't be measured
on a simple scale. My brother and I knew the laws of science, of Equivalent
Exchange, that gain required sacrifice, that something had to be taken from us.
But we thought there was nothing more we could lose. We were wrong.
Nice. My avatar is Homunculus from that series. He tricked the king into sacrificing the population of his entire country in pursuit of immortality. Instead, Homunculus was the one who became immortal.
Ironically, Homunculus forbade the transmutation of base metals into gold in order to prevent the economy of his nation from becoming unbalanced. Bernanke and the banksters could learn something from him.
Bernanke is a lvl 80 druid who just innervated the fuck out of your mana printing press.
Do they have a jewlcrafting system where you trade in like 80 gold coins to buy bars of gold to make jewelry out of gold.
His philosophers stone calls for mercury. He turns mercury into gold.
Oh he mercury poisons people with fillings and corn syrup so that they die before getting into unfunded social security liabilities.
He kills many birds with his stone.
High Fructose Corn Syrup is perfectly okay for you being it is all natural, as long as it is ingested in moderation.
I know this to be true because I saw it in a commercial paid for by the Corn Growers Association.
https://www.igolder.com/gold-charts/Configure.aspx?w=700&h=180&months=240
So that's why they mandate H1N1 vaccines to old people?
Convenient....
its idiotic that blizzard can maintain their made up economy better than the clowns at the fed and at the treasury.
gold sink - mounts and enchanting levelling, repairs, raw materials for crafting epics
hmm they understand - stable money supply = stable prices. what did ben not get?
Insert witty title
Isn't it odd that rather uneducated teenagers can grasp the economics of Simcity or Theme park but our educated professional political class can not?
yeah, which makes me think that people inherently understand the natural order of things, but 'education' in weird quasi religions such as keynesianism (yes i know his base ideas - if you could pin them down - were subverted by governments seeking to centralise power, yes yes yes) teaches them to ignore their base instincts because the textbook knows best,
bite my bum it does
"Do they have a jewlcrafting system where you trade in like 80 gold coins to buy bars of gold to make jewelry out of gold."
I am not sure, but I do know you can buy a bar of gold with silver but you need gold to buy a bar of truesilver.
That is true. While I have a 2min cooldown on Evocate, helicopterben can spam me with an instant cast. Does he receive Honor for this? Lets hope not.
i bet you that ben plays a pyro mage who draws agro in every group through relentless nuking and refusing to wait for the tank to get a head of steam, then whinges and /quits because 'you're all n00bs'
And Timmah is the player who continously jumps around the the group and after everything is explained for the 3rd time, asks what to do.
Ahh, the Wow duplicates life in so many ways.
ahh almost young paladin, LIFE imitates WoW...
/casts bubble
This is a really interesting - the parallels to a simulated economy. You're right that Blizzard or Atari can manage their online economies better than the Fed... at least in the sense that prices are relatively stable. Still, the Blizzard WoW economy puts the player on an endless hamster wheel. The game management introduces inflation with new spawns or rewards. Then, a software patch comes out that reduces cooldowns, item stats, or abilities. This is essentially deflationary. They seem to balance inflationary and deflationary forces, and I guess that's what creates good game drama.
But, I still quit WoW because this cycle is too maddening. Everytime you get a little ahead of the game, they change the rules in some subtle manner. This is the same "hamster wheel" philosophy used by the Fed... just my overall impression.
BTW, Ben should play a pally - he's gonna need Divine Intervention and Lay on of Hands to get out of this mess :p
Good judgement and honest dealing begins at the top, whether it be industry, personal dealings, or government.
http://thedailybell.com/1126/What-You-Always-Wanted-to-Know-About-Gold.html
Too much "clever" in this thread.....waaaaay too fucking much.
I'd say it's "suffused with shit" but that sounds too clever right now....
Dr. No
He hasn't leveled up in a while. Looks like he is actually losing experience points. Unless someone here is stealing them?
his account got hacked by a chinese gold farmer and he just doesn't know it yet
I found a dealer who had some Kryptonite. I traded all my gold for 16 oz of the shiny green metal.
Fed is the largest holder of gold in the world.
Allegedly*
:-)
etrader
Read the link but the quotes sum it up.
http://www.marketskeptics.com/2009/08/us-exported-5000-metric-tonnes-of-gold.html
...
I took special note of how 2,920 metric tonnes of “Gold Compounds” had been exported from the U.S. in 2008. This number seemed BIGGER than BIG – because the U.S is only alleged to have stockpiles of sovereign gold of 8,100 metric tonnes while annual U.S. mine production of gold is roughly 228 metric tonnes. This figure of 2,920 metric tonnes is equal to 36 % of all alleged sovereign U.S. gold stocks or more than 14 times annual U.S. gold mine production. So, I was left wondering, “just what is/are ‘gold compounds’?
I contacted the USGS and queried a qualified individual [who had working knowledge of this data stream] about the definition of “Gold Compounds”. I was told that, according to the U.S. Census Bureau – who supplies not only the definition but the actual reported numbers, gold compounds were typified by industrial type products containing low percentages/amounts of actual gold content – like gold paint.
I then reasoned with the USGS person, if such were the case, why would U.S. exports have increased in 2008 to nearly 3,000 metric tonnes [when the Global Economy was slowing and the U.S. Dollar was strong] from 2007, when U.S. exports totaled approximately 2,000 metric tonnes [when the U.S. Dollar was weaker and the Global Economy was booming]? I noted that this was counter-intuitive and made no fundamental economic sense:
...When confronted with reason, the individual for the USGS agreed that the data, as published, did not make logical sense and explained that the U.S. Census Bureau was questioned as to the veracity of this particular line item in their data.
I asked the USGS employee if the gross weight or the gross value [not shown in the table but known to the USGS] of the “Gold Compounds” was queried.
The individual confirmed that their query to the U.S. Census Bureau dealt with the gross value being assigned to these exported goods.
I responded rhetorically, “being an issue of gross value – then let me guess that the U.S. Census Bureau is assigning an astronomically high value to these goods. Such a high value would be COMPLETELY INCONSISTENT with what the U.S. Census Bureau claims these items are- namely, industrial goods. The values being reported would be more in line with these goods being gold bullion or equivalents”.
The individual from the USGS confirmed my reasoning when he responded, “that would be CORRECT”.
My reaction: US has exported 5000 metric tonnes of "gold compounds" over the last two years
1) 2,920 metric tonnes of "Gold Compounds" had been exported from the U.S. in 2008.
2) The U.S is only alleged to have stockpiles of sovereign gold of 8,100 metric tonnes while annual U.S. mine production of gold is roughly 228 metric tonnes.
3) 2,920 metric tonnes is equal to 36% of all alleged sovereign U.S. gold stocks or more than 14 times annual U.S. gold mine production.
4) An individual for the USGS agreed that the data, as published, did not make logical sense and explained that the U.S. Census Bureau was questioned as to the veracity of this particular line item in their data.
5) The U.S. Census Bureau is assigning an astronomically high value to these goods.
6) The values being reported would be more in line with these goods being gold bullion or equivalents.
7) foregoing data and discussion with the USGS individual is proof that the United States of America has surreptitiously exported physical gold - and continues to do so.
8) Public acknowledgement of these gold exports would scream like a siren call that the global financial community has totally lost faith in American financial stewardship
9) Over the course of 2007 / 2008 - more than 5,000 metric tonnes of "Gold Compounds" have been exported from the United States of America representing more than 62 % of reported sovereign U.S. gold reserves or about 24 times annual U.S. mine production.
10) No credible audit of the Sovereign U.S. Gold Reserve will EVER be allowed - because the gold is simply not there.
U.S. Trade Data Is Bogus
1) The value of these bullion exports significantly "skew" the doctored U.S. Trade numbers
2) When gold exports are backed-out, the U.S. Trade picture is decidedly worse.
Conclusion: Until someone explains to me what these “gold compounds” were, I am going to assume that they were half the US gold reserves leaving the country.
The Mint's gold coinage is 22k gold -- which could be called a compound. It is assumed by all players that a notable percentage of the Mint's output goes to Europe for example. Look at the Mint's authorized dealers for some interesting players in the distribution of the bullion coinage. There could be a goodly portion of your "compounds".
Gold reserves belonging to many different sovereign nations are stored in the US, almost entirely, I believe, in NY, so there is much more physical gold bullion in official US possession than just the US reserves.
Technically speaking, the part of the vault containing these foreign reserve is 'foreign soil', in much the same way as any foreign embassy.
If any/all of these bullion reserves were to be repatriated to their owners, they need to pass across/through the US. So they are imported in, in order to be exported out of the US.
This may be a plausible explanation for this 'Gold Compounds' transaction, however, we would expect to find an offsetting entry of 'Gold Compounds' being imported in the same timeframe.
There can be little doubt that nations such as Germany, with large quantities of physical gold held in NY, would have been quietly seeking repatriation in recent times.
..so legend has it. but their absolute refusal to allow an audit of it is highly suspicious IMO. i think there's a very good chnace things are not quite as they tell it.
The 7 member Gold Commission checks 5% every year...
There is no vast secret missing gold boyz....
Link or reference to that JLee?
If I understand you correctly there is an authority that checks 5% of (our?) gold each year.
If you direct us to them, that would help all of us feel better about our gold still being here.
*tungsten
ta daa !!
The Federal Reserve is NOT a U.S. institution, so it is not the U.S. who is a holder of the gold. Yes, they act as the Central Bank, but...it is the owners of the Fed (member banks, Rothschilds..???) who own the gold.
I thought GLD was the largest holder of gold.
Seen it?
"I traded some stuff for Gold and Silver today. I had to reinvest it all in Health and Mana potions."
I just fell out of my chair and pissed myself laughing...nice!
Are we waiting on this one:
http://us.blizzard.com/diablo3/?rhtml=y
i think we're waiting for the cataclysm. just plant a curse of doom for 75,000 damage
I hope the internet still works when D3 is scheduled to be released.
"Fed is the largest holder of gold in the world."
According to the last physical audit in 1956...yes, you are correct?
well, now i am quite interested in gold. i tried to buy coins but of course i got screwed by the gold coin handler. never took possession and still lost about $7000.
but now i have bought several gold pieces of jewelry. i believe this to be best for my situation. so maybe the screw job was meant to be and i would invest in this particular artist who crafts 18k recycled gold with raw diamonds, virgin diamonds rather never cut. another piece 18k recycled gold, very heavy lots of gold necklace with 2mm raw cubes 57.1 ctw. another 18k oxidized raw diamonds.
as gold goes up value plus the artist goes up to in appreciation nationally. i believe it will turn into a wise decision. my daughter can have them when i am gone and will mean more than stupid money or stocks. they have no meaning in life actually.
veo just buy from http://apmex.com/ or http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/ they are the best places to buy around.
Being brand new to buying physical gold, what's better to purchase - coins or just the physical bars (any size)?
Thanks!
"Better" is relative.
Bars are cheaper; lower mark-up over spot but I believe if you take a bar out of the vault circuit it is no longer considered "good" without being requalified, which costs money. There is also the liquidity factor to consider... converting (or transacting with in dire situations?) a 1oz Gold Eagle or Maple Leaf is easier than with a 10 kg bar.
If "size" isn't an issue you can buy American Gold eagles from Tulving who from my experience has the lowest mark-ups but lowest quantity they sell is a mint tube which would be 20 Eagles or about $25k.
Also check out www.bullionvault.com for another alternative for physical ownership. I'm still relatively new to the physical ownership experience and while I have researched it quite extensively my knowledge may not be perfect so please correct any errors in my thinking.
For the reasons you state I believe that if you're going to keep gold in your physical possession then it makes sense to own gold coins. I keep an 'ample' supply at hand but the rest I entrust to ViaMat (the Brinks of Europe) in one of the safest vaults in the world. PMs are purchased using bullionvault's online marketplace but are held and handled by ViaMat. The physical bullion market requires the utmost in security for the storage and handling of their gold. They use the same vaults that are available to bullionvault customers. If these vaults are safe enough for the dealers then I figure they're safe enough for my relatively paltry holdings as well. The safety is reflected in the fact that the surprisingly low storage fee for gold is 0.12% which includes insurance through Lloyds of London. That's $120/year for storage and insurance for $100,000 in gold. Try to beat that anywhere!
If I needed a large chunk of change, for some reason, I could easily sell some gold (or silver) using bullionvault's 24/7 online market at a small discount to spot and have the money wired to my bank account by tomorrow. Most bullionvault customers have no expectations of ever needing to take physical delivery of their good delivery gold or silver. Currently there's no need to do so. Of course that could change so I'll never say never.
What's been your experience with Gainesville Coins? They're close enough to make the trip in person and I'd not heard of them before.
I use Gainesville coins exclusively now. Apmex has started to require a checking account # with every purchase, me not likey.
Gainesville is marketing 2010 American Buffaloes. Didn't we read on the US mint site that production was suspended on the Buffaloes in order to satsify demand for the Eagles or am I confused on that?
The silver Buffalo is from a private mint, not the U.S. mint. They do claim the golds are still in the original government sheets and so are from the US mint.
Collector coins are suspended. Simple bullion coins are still minted.
http://usmint.gov/mint_programs/american_eagles/index.cfm?action=sales&y...
APMEX,
Has a bad habit of charging more for less.
Esp on Gld,,,,,,,lot's of folks do not like to purchase Bullion in 20oz increments, for DCA purposes.........10oz Min's ok, but 20?.
Uh-Uh............
Also(unless it's a special)their ABOVE SPOT prices, only apply to MAX quan........
I do like their policy on that front for Slvr..........though.
I haven't found any other online sellers that consistently have better low quantity prices.
For high quantities there are cheaper suppliers, but not everyone can manage $10000 per purchase.
I've been buying from GC for years, never a problem. If you are physically going there to buy gold, consider the sales tax. You might be much better off buying online from a different state (I'm in GA, no tax on internet sales from Florida).
John,
You are being charged sales tax on local purchases?.Must be a Georgia thing.............
velobabe
Of the following endurable assets Real estate is the only one which does not need to be reconverted. You can rent out a home or you can farm or rent land.
The problem with Gold, is if every other market is being brazenly manipulated why assume that Gold isn't? No one ever considers that at some point some big player holding physical Gold will say no mas and start selling. Once that happens it becomes a The Quick and the Dead choice.
Gold may be nice but I prefer being Ben Cartwright, or in your case Victoria Barkley.
http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2009/12/gold-ultimate-wealth-reserve.html
And what is the difference between a currency and a wealth asset? Time and appreciation! The main difference is the amount of time that each is held. A currency is earned and spent in a short timeframe and wealth assets are accumulated and held for longer timeframes. Here is a list of some common wealth assets:
Endurable Wealth Assets
Real Estate
Fine Art
Antiques
Collectibles
Gold
Other Precious Metals
Gemstones
Rare Classic Cars
Real Estate is so overlalued it makes me sick. Unless you can farm the land, you should not own it. Gold is finite, and it is being manipulated. The pressure downward is extreme. Even if the CBs came and sold, to whom would they sell to to reduce the price? Each other? Nobody would buy that chicanery. Gold is money, and unless you have it, you don't.
The problem with land is taxes that will cause forfeiture if not paid annually. And while they may not be high right now, past performance is no guarantee of future.
BINGO!
Productive land, especially farmland, is a terrific investment right now - IF you can be assured that you won't have it confiscated through taxation. That, in turn, requires you be wealthy enough to basically have a private army. Does that describe you?
Its not hard to envision a return to the feudal land structure since we're not that far from it in essence the way things are structured now. Its just that the burden of production from the land to pay those taxes is low enough, currently, that people don't think much about it.
MM,
Also, lest we forget....................
Emminent Domain, the SCOTUS has ruled INCORRECTLY, and now you property may be seized for Comml developments.
Originally just the Feds, Munis or state could do so,NO MAS.
True, there is definitely a finite amount of land, and under normal circumstances it is the go to asset.( like PM's).
But, assessments/inflation, etc, of taxation, can steal your land asap.
Just a recent example by the DHS, in Vermont on the CAD border, three Gen's, approx 3 acres, and at the wonderful price of $39,500.00...........included home/all buildings,fences etc.
Reason,it was considered a MAJOR crosssing point into the US, by POTENTIAL terrorists.
HELLO?............we have 2000 miles to the South, and it's WIDE ASS OPEN.
The family was devasted..............this SUCKS, and is WRONG.
Gold...Bitches
Fine your Gold isn't taxed. Your Gold is sitting there. It is useless until it is converted into currency. Which then becomes taxable at some point.
If I'm growing crops then first that allows me to spend less on food and second if I have a surplus I can either trade or sell and profit. If a house stands on that land I can rent the house and have yet more income.
Eventually you will need to sell your Gold unless you intend to die with it. Will you be selling it before everyone else does or will you be waiting until the herd starts selling?
Gold is the preferred asset of a merchant class, a class that does not like to get their hands dirty.
Gully,
You ASSUME, you get to keep your produce?...............bottom line, no guarantees...............
1.) Gold IS currency.
2.) if you are doing all these other things you mention because you think the system will collapse where do you get renters from that have money to pay you?
3.) You only have a surplus under the current taxation system. Rome fell through taxation on land farming and changed the payment for taxes in crops near the end with amounts increasing each year until default and leaving the land was the only option. They raised the production so high it wasn't payable. Good luck with the whole "I make a surplus above what I need" thing going forward.
4.) No I don't need to convert my gold - I have other stuff too. Gold is where I put my money/wealth that I want to still be around as insurance should everything collapse. I work and make money that gets paid in FRN's so I'm not quite sure why I need to convert all the extra wealth that is currently in gold as an insurance policy. By the way, why do people pay for health insurance while they are healthy? Clue - wealth insurance by gold and health insurance by HMO's etc... are the same thing although I understand that many find this concept hard to grasp. And if I find someone that has what I want and will take gold there is no convertibility issue - it will act as a currency (shock, gasp, horror).
5.) Gold is the preferred asset class for all that do not want their wealth to be debased - period.
some big player holding physical Gold will say no mas and start selling.
You mean like one of the cartel members of gold? That would be the Central Banks, which, in case you missed it, HAVE been selling gold for decades.
If you don't count your hoard in tonnes, then you aint a big holder and you aint gonna influence the price.
Gold...Bitches
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-03-01/soros-signals-gold-bubble-as-goldman-predicts-record-update1-.html
March 1 (Bloomberg) -- George Soros is helping drive up gold prices by doubling his bet in a market even he considers a “bubble” as Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Barclays Capital and HSBC Holdings Plc predict more gains before it bursts.
Soros Fund Management LLC, which manages about $25 billion, increased its investment in SPDR Gold Trust, the world’s largest exchange-traded fund for the metal, by 152 percent in the fourth quarter, a Feb. 16 Securities and Exchange Commission filing shows. While prices have fallen 9.2 percent since reaching a record on Dec. 3, 15 of 22 analysts in a Bloomberg survey say gold will reach a new high, with the median forecast predicting a 17 percent advance to as much as $1,300 an ounce this year.
“When interest rates are low we have conditions for asset bubbles to develop, and they are developing at the moment,” Soros said at the World Economic Forum’s annual meeting in Davos, Switzerland, in January. “The ultimate asset bubble is gold,” he said.
http://5minforecast.agorafinancial.com/its-not-too-late-to-buy-gold-or-for-uncle-sam-to-tax-it/
Right on cue -- as the value of gold shines under the spotlight -- rumors abound that global governments are mulling some sort of tax on gold profits.
“A special tax on private gold owners' gains may soon appeal pretty much everywhere,” friend of Agora Adrian Ash wrote recently. “Longtime holders were early and right in spotting the financial crisis ahead -- and nobody likes a smart arse, remember. Even more recent buyers are also showing notable gains, and most notably against the fast-sickening euro, too… German and Greek politicians must now be wondering why Europe's central bank gold sales ended without having a gold tax ready and waiting to keep milking the metal.”
And this, from Alen Mattich of The Wall Street Journal:
“Any assets that can be valued relatively easily and any income flows, whatever their source, that governments can get their hands on will be a temptation for the taxman. Is, say, a levy on gold -- everybody’s favorite safe haven -- impossible?”
Nope.
No official word on all this yet, and of course, this won’t happen without a big fight. But our government has done worse to gold owners before…
The first to get punished by taxes will be the paper gold speculators. I wonder if this will happen before, or after, paper decouples wildly from physical?
Gulley,
"No official word on all this yet, and of course, this won’t happen without a big fight. But our government has done worse to gold owners before…"
Yep, they did, but newsflash, we are not the same gullible sheeple of the 30's............who trusted their Gv't.
As the old saying goes,
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
and check out the reaction Australia got when they talk about enacting a new tax on miners. new exploration stops, production goes down, yearly demand is not met by production, price rises from supply/demand issues as people have to sell to meet other demand as opposed to meeting it from digging out of ground and refining. I know, supply/demand is really hard to grasp/understand, but I think you may get there one day.
And if they do come for the gold, what do you think the state of every other asset class will be? Hmmm? Including farm land? The only reason to go after gold is BECAUSE NOTHING ELSE IS LEFT FOR THE GOVT TO STEAL.
Wear pants when you buy gold. Don't buy jewelry it's overpriced by 40 to 50 percent.
If you got the money go with www.tulving.com Best prices I found and quick delivery. Otherwise apmex is good as is www.golddealer.com is also pretty good. Those are the 3 I have used and had good experience with.
Shameful, good to see you, it has been awhile.
Hope things are well for you. Did you ever get over to the Far East like you were hoping to?
Not yet. Been crazy busy at work and finishing up this school semester. Somehow a major project deadline fell during my finals periods and I was working 70+ hour weeks...while taking my finals :) Finally winding down from projects, finals, and moving.
On the plus side my boss is going to allow me to translate some of that time into vacation time. Next month is Latvia with my parents (see the homeland), and planning for Asia this winter with my newfound bonus time.
Did take the FSO test the past week. Would be nice if I could get out on Uncle Sugar's dime, and have him pay me to learn a language o.
my brother's 2nd wife was from Latvia.
whoa, had to have been the most crazed out lunatic cunt, i have ever had to be nice too.
her mom was very nice and calm, but this thing was wigged out, smart, tall blond blue eyes, but nasty mean.
oh, proud of you shameful†
Well, nice to hear that you will do some traveling. I have been to Poland twice, many of my ancestors were Polish.
If the FSO test is the State Dept. exam for foreign service, well, that might be excellent work. It'll help you get a State Dept. job if you speak another language (I don't remember if I ever asked that.
What velobabe says! You watch out over there in Latvia! LOL velo!
Prepare for DEEP pockets at Tulving also, they (unless I missed something), sell in 20oz increments.........
Not good for DCA, or for folks not wanting to drop 20k+ per purchase.
i don't understand how these treads work. i want to tell a couple of you to stop telling me i made a mistake. it is done, and quite happy.
Gully Foyle
Endurable Wealth Assets
Real Estate
Fine Art
Antiques
Collectibles
Gold
Other Precious Metals
Gemstones
Rare Classic Cars
i have had all that. my rare car, maybe my nassau blue '65 corvette small block. totally original except for wheels cause i sometimes had to put snow tires on it.
i sold my farm land that i inherited, dumb. sold me home i lived in for 30 years, another dumb.
am currently very very lost person. homeless , but i have a safe.
i look gorgeous in my gold and diamond jewelry, you wouldn't be able to take your eyes off me, promise. so FUCK ALL of you, that says i shouldn't of done this. honest, my biggest mistake in my whole life is listening to you, mostly men, probably. i am closing on a large settlement from some bad businessmen.
why in the heck is my post all the way down here, i don't want to be down here i want back up towards my post. also when you look at the tracking. what are you looking for exactly.
velo,
folks just trying to help you and others out.......
I am a tad confused, you are gorgeous(your words), and have tons of 18k bling/and diamonds,yet your homeless, and lost..........a little friendly advice, seek help.
+1
18K is only 75% gold. Recycled gold, there is no telling where thats from (could be tainted). Diamonds? Really?
your all just dumb doo doo men.
i swear you need to just leave some things for woman to decide.
your all just dumb doo doo men.
i swear you need to just leave some things for woman to decide.
Give me some time to break down your logical argument. Yea this is going to be a tough one.
velo,
If your doing jewelry, I suggest doing it in 22k.
You'd still have to be brutal in negotiation to get anywhere near spot prices.
F U C K all of you, it is done
D O N E.
18k too.
of course all you men say buy gold coins, cause you don't wear jewelry. but i bet a few of you secretly probably do want to wear jewelry and dress up and be pretty, too†
"well, now i am quite interested in gold. i tried to buy coins but of course i got screwed by the gold coin handler. never took possession and still lost about $7000."
If you took a $7K beat on a gold coin transaction I believe you should share with us the name of the dealer that took you.
If not, I call bull shit on your post.
well i don't BS any thing, sorry to tell you big guy.
Tebo Coin Company
POB 4900
boulder CO 80306
2863 28th st.
villa center
$11.338.90 500 1 oz. silver eagles
$20,551.29 16 1 oz. mix gold coins
would not let me take physical possession for 21 days. i cried bs.
wanted all my money back but they only gave me back
$25,000. and sign a release that i wouldn't sue them.
i would scan and throw up as a PDF, but i think you get my idea.
plus now that i have been here these folks have the worst reputation on earth.
you men have no idea what life is like on the female side of business.
N O N E.
velo, you do and say whatever you want.
Thanks for letting us know about the rats that took your money.
I wish you the best of luck in the near future. You have friends here at ZH.
99% of courts throw out wavers of legal rights because legal rights can't be waived.
If you haven't, you should talk to a lawyer. I'd tear off their nuts if they did something like that to me. I have a claw hammer I would be happy to lend you for that purpose.
You are so full of shit. I don't know what this damsel in distress ploy is all about. If it's to cover up being an idiot female who invested in gold by buying stupid jewelry trinkets then fine. But you are a grade A idiot if you allow these people to do this to you. An 8 year old dying of leukemia could kick their ass and have their 7 grand back in under 2 hours.
LOL. Somebody had to say it. Being a woman is no excuse. I know plenty of women that would rip those guys to shreds. BTW why not just wait for delivery?
look i am not full of shit. so fuck you too. what ploy. i'm not spinning any ploy with this story. i tried to buy some gold coins after reading months of articles on ZH, pertaining to gold investment, hedging your cash or whatever.
i found this coin shop, made my purchase, wrote 2 check's out of two different accounts i have. checks cleared. im tight with my local banker. she said they cleared in two days. they had the money. the coin dealers kept telling no checks haven't cleared. so they were sticking to the 3 weeks - 21 days period for me to come in and take possession. jesus christ. i have never in my life. i buy cars all the time around $50,000. write a check get to take the car home that day. what is up with gold coins.
these guys were pulling a fast one on me. i asked to get all my money back and they would give me what the price of gold that day was. of course it was down and i had to pay the city $1200. tax.
BTW- yeah i have never given myself much over an 8th grade level of intelligence. plus i have always had my money managed by professionals. since the meltdown i took charge. it has been hard trying to fucking make money decisions.
fuck you with your stupid jewelry trinkets analogizes. people get to see things in different lights.
i am fighting another battle, settlement close to a million, coming my way. you have to pick your battles. mine goes to the highest return†
what is the saying, walking in some one else's shoes. mine are probably too small for you to get into, just imagine.
Oy gevalt. This is like watching Chernobyl . . .
Just freaking pathetic and so full of lies. You don't pay the city 1200 tax on cancelled transactions you don't even pay taxes on coins.
Mar 23, 2010 ... Gov - The official website of the State of Colorado ... See FYI Sales #60 - Sales Tax Exemptions for Coins and Precious Metal Bullion. ...
You're either full of shit or dealing with people who are full of shit.
f u c k y o u
i am not full of shit you bastard.
city of boulder, check that out. if i reside in the city i have to pay taxes.
you have really upset me since last night.
i had to pay taxes on my gold jewelry, because i bought it in the city of boulder and i reside in the city of boulder. i could of lied and than they would have to ship my purchase to an address outside of boulder.
you really have upset me to a point i don't really care to be in. you fucker.
you have made me go down on myself so badly, i just have to tell you this.
your a mother fucker.
taxes on my jewelry $1312.13
tax $1500.
go fuck yourself, i don't need any fucking piece of shit Y O U telling me i am full of shit.
you know what, it is men like you that just spoils my life. i have done nothing to deserve this scorn.
Is boulder colorado such a freaking shit hole that they tax nothing. Tax tax exempt coin and bullion purchases. I'm not trying to hurt you. I just want to know who is full of shit because somebody is. Or are you just pissed that not only did you buy worthless diamonds you bought gold at 40 percent over spot and threw in sales tax on top of it. Gold would have to double for that investment to pay off and the diamonds are going to horrible loss. I bet you win your settlement. The con artists have no doubt they will get it all back from you.
it's all good†
i am investing in DURACELL batteries.
If you buy gold in Ontario Canada there is a sales tax on coins that does not apply to bars. So buying bars saves you another 8%.
If you sell the bars back to the same bank you bought them from they do not need to be assayed (any branch will do). Take them to a different bank and they will have to be assayed at the seller's expense.
I buy my gold from the local branch of the Royal Bank of Canada. They charge a commission of only 1/8% and a delivery fee of $10.
Dear chest,
Have you looked into "Baht chain" or other 24k chain? It is around and at prices very near spot. The heaviest one that I have seen is a 24k neck chain that you would have to wrap three laps around your neck. It is somewhat over eight ounces. There is a lot of stuff in the one ounce range.
Try reputable dealers (pawn) in areas with large oriental populations.
Own physical gold and silver or get railroaded up the asshole when the smelly brown stuff starts splattering across the fan blades.
In a world predicated upon deceit and lies, physical gold coins (too small to include tungsten) in your hand is the safest investment with fiat currencies and government run amok.
Yours Truly,
Nathan Wind
sands,
Much to my chagrin, the NK's,and Chinese have developed copies of Major countries coinage in tungsten now....
Apparently it's easy to tell the difference by the sound it makes when 'clinked'. Dunno if anyone here can confirm this.
This is true. Gold and silver coins have a distinctive "ringing" sound when dropped onto a table from about 6 inches. Very easy to train the ear to hear this.
Does anyone know if tungsten has a distinctive ring as well?
Anyone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HdmA3vPbSU
+11
Here is your simple, elegant and cheap solution to the tungsten question:
http://www.fisch.co.za/operation.htm
Hey Rocky.
Because tungsten is close to the density of gold (and because of the real gold coin variations in thickness mentioned at your Fisch link), might tungsten coin fool the Fisch as a real coin? I think tungsten is within about 1% of gold's density.
I have learned a lot about gold here at ZH, but there is so much to learn about gold...
This is what they say at the Fisch site, but I wouldn't put anything past the Chinese!
Start a website with nothing but clips of Bernake, Timmy, etc. speaking dubbed over with Yakety Saks ala Benny Hill.
Might make them more credible as the jokerz they are.
Here you go: http://bennyhillifier.com/
Endow any youtube video with Benny Hill sped-up Yakkity-Saxity goodness.
Fun for the whole family, even with pony girl porn.
Sweet!