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Demand that Congress Pass the "Keep Your Hands Off My 401(k) Act of 2010"
As I wrote in January:
Last May, I wrote about the rumor that the Obama administration might seize funds from American's 401k and IRA accounts.
Last week, Bloomberg pointed out:
The
Obama administration is weighing how the government can encourage
workers to turn their savings into guaranteed income streams following
a collapse in retiree accounts when the stock market plunged.
The
U.S. Treasury and Labor Departments will ask for public comment as soon
as next week on ways to promote the conversion of 401(k) savings and
Individual Retirement Accounts into annuities or other steady payment
streams, according to Assistant Labor Secretary Phyllis C. Borzi and
Deputy Assistant Treasury Secretary Mark Iwry, who are spearheading the
effort...
There is “a tremendous amount of interest in the White
House” in retirement-security initiatives, Borzi, who heads the Labor
Department’s Employee Benefits Security Administration, said in an
interview.
In addition to annuities, the inquiry will cover other
approaches to guaranteeing income, including longevity insurance that
would provide an income stream for retirees living beyond a certain
age, she said.
“There’s been a fair amount of discussion in the
literature taking the view that perhaps there ought to be more lifetime
income,” Iwry, a senior adviser to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner,
said in an interview...
One proposal raised by Iwry as co-author
of a paper while at the Retirement Security Project, before joining the
administration, has reached Congress. A bill requiring employers to
report 401(k) savings both as an account balance and as a stream of
income based on an annuity was introduced on Dec. 3 by Senators Jeff
Bingaman, a New Mexico Democrat, Johnny Isakson, a Georgia Republican,
and Herb Kohl, a Wisconsin Democrat.
I
quoted Karl Denninger's warning that a government "option" for
investing retirement funds in treasuries could soon become mandatory.
A couple of weeks ago, Newt Gingrich (yes, that Newt Gingrich) wrote:
Washington is developing plans for your retirement savings.
BusinessWeek
reports that the Treasury and Labor departments are asking for public
comment on "the conversion of 401(k) savings and Individual Retirement
Accounts into annuities or other steady payment streams."
In
plain English, the idea is for the government to take your retirement
savings in return for a promise to pay you some monthly benefit in your
retirement years.
They will tell you that you are "investing"
your money in U.S. Treasury bonds. But they will use your money
immediately to pay for their unprecedented trillion-dollar budget
deficits, leaving nothing to back up their political promises, just as
they have raided the Social Security trust funds.
This
"conversion" may start out as an optional choice, though you are
already free to buy Treasury bonds whenever you want. But as Karl
Denninger of the Market Ticker Web site reports: " "Choices' have a
funny way of turning into mandates, and this looks to me like a raw
admission that Treasury knows it will not be able to sell its debt in
the open market--so they will effectively tax you by forcing your
"retirement' money to buy them."
Moreover, benefits based on
Treasury bond interest rates may be woefully inadequate compensation
for your years of savings. As Denninger adds, "What's even worse is
that the government has intentionally suppressed Treasury yields during
this crisis (and will keep doing so by various means, including
manipulating the CPI inflation index) so as to guarantee that you lose
over time compared to actual purchasing power."
This proposal
follows hearings held last fall by House Education and Labor Committee
Chairman George Miller, D-Calif., and Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Wash., of
the Ways and Means Committee focusing on "redirecting (IRA and 401 k)
tax breaks to a new system of guaranteed retirement accounts to which
all workers would be obliged to contribute," as reported by
InvestmentNews.com.
The hearings examined a proposal from
professor Teresa Ghilarducci of the New School for Social Research in
New York to give all workers "a $600 annual inflation-adjusted subsidy
from the U.S. government" in return for requiring workers "to invest 5%
of their pay into a guaranteed retirement account administered by the
Social Security Administration."
Argentina provided a precedent
in 2008, taking over that country's private retirement accounts for
forced investment in government bonds to cover spiraling deficits.
Ambrose Evans-Pritchard editorialized at the time in Britain's Daily Telegraph
that this may be "a foretaste of what may happen across the world as
governments discover . . . that the bond markets are unwilling to plug
the (deficit) gap. . . . My fear is that governments in the U.S.,
Britain and Europe will display similar reflexes."...
Congressional
Republicans should introduce legislation to block the government from
ever proceeding with anything like this. Call it the "Keep Your Hands
Off My 401(k) Act of 2010."
Gingrich's article -
like Gingrich himself - is highly partisan. He has helped create a
false partisan divide-and-conquer strategy in this country, distracting
people from realizing that we are all Americans. And instead of
admitting that both the Republican and Democratic parties are just two
branches of the fat cat party (and that both promote socialism for the rich), Gingrich pretends that only the Democrats are socialists.
So is this just partisan fearmongering, or is Gingrich raising authentic concerns about retirement savings?
I don't know.
But it doesn't matter.
Specifically, there is no harm - and tremendous benefit - to outlawing
extremely dangerous acts, even if no one is positive they will be
committed. If no one is going to carry out such acts, then no harm no
foul. If they are, it will help to clarify that such acts are illegal
and will be harshly punished.
If government agents don't carry out false flag attacks, then they shouldn't hesitate to sign a pledge that they won't carry out false flag attacks, right?
Similarly,
if some in government aren't really considering seizing retirement
savings, then they shouldn't oppose the "Keep Your Hands Off My 401(k)
Act of 2010". Right?
These are not the type of acts concerning which expensive regulation would minimize a small harm. False flag attacks have huge negative costs,
as would the government seizing our retirement savings. And the cost of
saying Keep Your Hands Off My 401(k) would not be expensive, because it
would not involve monitoring against a large number of small
infractions, but simply making one big bad act illegal.
Gingrich
might be a partisan hack who is writing about this for strictly
partisan reasons. But his idea is such a good one, that both Democrats
and Republicans should jump on board.
Note: 99% of the Democrats in
Congress and the White House are political hacks as well. I am not
trying to cheer-lead for the Dems. Both parties have sold their souls
to the powers-that-be.
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Or maybe they are just trying to head off another debacle because the IRA/401K funds are not really there at all. How might these fund have been leveraged over the years? What would happen if everyone did a "run on the funds" and wanted to cash out? Is the cash even there?
You wouldn't suppose that this is all simple fear-mongeriing to drive sheeple to w/d their tax-deferred savings so the IRS can collect?
Naw... they're not clever enough to think of that
My 403B has been invested in annuities. I thought I could get the money out in a lump sum when I needed it after I retire, but learned that I would have to pull it out over 10 years. Does anyone know a way around this? They didn't tell me that when I signed up for the annuity plan. The interest rate it earns for reinvestment is about 3.5%. I know I can do better than that. It really makes me sick that they didn't inform me of the 10 year withdrawal requirement.
Unfortunately, when unemployment is 60% and the society has collapsed, historians will say that it was caused by the persistent failure even of critics to understand what caused it, i.e., what is going on now.
It is simply liquidation, Mellon-style. It's too bad that people don't study the sociopathology of liquidation or you would not feel this moral outrage at the seizure of 401k plans.
Guess what? They are going Federalize mutual funds too--you still own them, you just can't touch them.
However, you leave out a piece of the puzzle: how to force people to continue contributing to 401k plans and investing in mutual funds once they have been seized.
That will be done.
The problem is that WWII interrupted the liquidation which began under Hoover and continued under FDR, so we think it somehow is not designed to run its course to the destruction of society.
But it is. It is the powerful withdrawing government from society (by which I do not mean that government becomes less intrusive or smaller).
And this step is just one more in the arsenal of liquidationist techniques, including, but not limited to:
1. cartelization
2. credit contraction
3. race to the bottom currency gambits
4. my personal favorite--supply chain degradation which NO ONE pays any attention to
5. monetization
It's too bad George Washington is waking up so late to the idea that the law PREVENTS attempts on important facts. That is exactly what the Court said when it made exercises of religion an individually enforceable right in West Virginia v. Barnette.
But George Washington doesn't realize what he is stumbling into. He is stumbling into demanding more individually enforceable rights.
If he was more aware, he would simply demand them outright.
But George is a very petit bourgeois, cryptofascist fellow. He would never, for example, demand that the level of scrutiny for housing be raised above Lindsey v. Normet minimum scrutiny.
George will be one of those run over by the revolution.
Before he goes he should read my book, The Eminent Domain Revolt.
First of all, they will never get such a law passed ("Protect my IRA/401k) but even if they did one law does not prevent another. Only a "Constitutional Amendment" would offer such protection.
The way they are floating this idea is much like the "health-care" debate. Keep talking about it and keep holding hearings and pretty soon everyone's "issue sensitivity" is reduced and the objections die. However, if we start having a public discussion it might force Congress to keep hands off.
I would rather face a national debt default than continue down this road.
>>Only a "Constitutional Amendment" would offer such protection.
LOL! Don't be a fool. As if some old ink on parchment will inhibit them.
Your analysis is right on.
The only answer is to cash out everything (pay the current tax rate) if over 59 1/2 in 2010 and hold tight. These guys (Obama and the Democrats) believe that the ends justify the means and will work very hard to see that the government controls everything; first your health, then your union membership, then your energy and finally your wealth.
Beware the Ides of March(ing down the Road to Serfdom)
"to the powers-that-be"
And who might these be? It seems a little conspiratorially theorizing to me - if the Dem's are even mumbling about this it puts them was down the helping-us-out scale. This stuff comes out of the Democrat Intelligentsia who have no practical experience and spend most of their time talking with one another. If you put the Republican crimes on the same level as those of the current gang in DC, Mr. Washington, you have severely strayed from your namesakes' principals.
Can the Government destroy everyone's IRA faster than the mutual fund industry has done? The difference will be that the Government won't let you see the destruction in progress. If you're ever able to retire, which I doubt, you'll find out that your IRA won't buy a shot and a beer. You'll be just like those Greek geezers we've been seeing on the telly. Those firehoses and dogs will go right through a pack of pensioners.......
Who controls your IRA?
I control mine ... short equities, long gold ... I can trade futures with my IRA and thus can do whatever I deem is appropriate. The greedy mutual fund managers did not impact my IRA at all, because I chose not to deal with them as I took the ZeroHedge Pledge.
Wonderfull. Try being a wage slave. You have the choice of investing in an approved plan. Or investing in another approved plan. Or not investing. And if the company offers a plan then it is that plan or nothing.
They want to TAKE our 401Ks and IRAs? Think about what is unsaid. If we are THAT broke as a nation that they are even thinking about that, then we are very, very PHUCKKED. The thing that kills me, is that this administration has been absolutely SILENT on the looting and govt. collusion happening all around us, like it isnt really happening.
Like if they don't talk about it, people will be calmer, when the opposite is true. People are freaking out, because it is OBVIOUS that we are being lied to on a daily basis, and virtually none of our elected leaders are truly protecting us, they are screwing Americans to protect their banking and insurance Masters.
Starve the Banking BEAST! Move your money and choose not to do business with the companies that have sold America out!
Vote each and every one of these incumbent banking slaves OUT THE DOOR as soon as you can.
401Ks and IRA's will be deserted and never trusted again if they try to take OUR MONEY.
Bottom line? Dont trust anyone else to manage YOUR MONEY. Don't let them charge you fees and tax you to death just for wanting to control YOUR money...how stupid is that?
I voted for this administration, but dont think I will ever vote for another Democrat again. "Preventing the public from discovering the truth about our economy is their one and only strategy!! NEWSFLASH! Papering over losses isnt an economic strategy!!
PM's are looking better every day. Our entire economy is just one giant PONZI SCHEME.
Same issue as Toyota....This thing just won't stop.....;>)
http://research.stlouisfed.org:80/fred2/series/MULT
Ponzi Scheme for the 21st Century :- Borzi Scheme.
Since I used to work for Wachovia.. i have no 401k to worry about... thanks Kenny!!!
The best investment is paying off debt..
I guess since I'm under 30 I have time to invest outside 401ks or jess.
Invest with what? WE (the 40's-60's crowd) just had one fucking amazing 30 year party.
Party is over. The bill's due. Someone's gotta pay.
Apologies for the double post
(posted this in another article, yet it is true)
A few friends cashed in their IRAs and got physical gold a while back. They are now profiting and making far more money than their IRA was.
I've considered withdrawing my 401K dollars as well, I just struggle with the 10% penalty and the roughly 45% tax consequence (I've done the calculations - 34.6% to Uncle Sam and 9.5% to my bankrupt state)...and then the question: what do I do with the proceeds? Buy precious metals?
Short term TIPS through a Treadury Direct account perhaps.
TIPS? Does anyone on ZH actually believe the official US Gov's dollar devaluation (inflation) numbers? In other words, no to TIPS because the US Gov manipulates the numbers to pay out less than what is real inflation.
Please visit shadowstats.com for real numbers.
Still better than nothing, eh?
Well, as the USD has constantly been devalued, what you have now will constantly be worth less the longer the time line. Add to that the low interest rates banksters offer...
We did some calculations and buying gold made sense on a long term scale, and that is what your 401k is after all (to be spent in the future). Another item to be considered is that the rate of taxing a 401k is unknown when it comes time to cash in (laws change and all that).
Of course then there is the comfort of having immediate access to your funds versus the long wait, and since now money market accounts can be frozen it makes one wonder about possible...
With some of that speculation aside, you get immediate access to funds, you no longer worry about possible future changes in law concerning 401k and gold keeps its value on a long term scale (unlike $1 today buys 50 cents worth from a decade or so ago).
I bought carpenter power tools and mechanic tool kits as well as musical instruments.
Also 5 year supply of steermanure. I feel really good about that bullshit.
Next on my list are the extras like sleeping bags for unexpected guests. Plan on having unexpected company unless you are on an island.
Vinegar, bandages and other odd items are better bought now before shortgages and confusion begins.
It worries me that so many folks still have no clue how bad it can get .
MT, Thanks for your reply...all good points. If I took a lump sum payment, would you purchase gold with the proceeds all at once or over a period of time (monthly, bi-monthly or something similar) to dollar-cost average?
Hard to say and of course this is ALL IMHO so DYOD of course.
My preference is 66% au (new production JM kilo bars) and 33% ag (new production 100 oz JM bars) and yes always hold physical. As for when to buy, that is hard to say yet i gave up trying to time things nowadays and believe any time is a good time per so (on a long term scale). As this is 401k move, odds are you have plenty of time to find a sell point if you buy now.
Judging by what is going on with world finances, RE, CRE, employment, etc it seems HIGHLY doubtful things will 'get better' and as such doubt au/ag will take a hard fall like experienced in the 80's. There is simply too much financial fraud and collapsing US States and Countries caught in this web for an easy out. A number of 'solutions' could be tried, yet the 'best' options are either default (doubtful) or currency revaluation/reissuing. There are others, yet will note those two.
In either case au/ag should be fine while paper currencies, well... they need to keep the 'zombies' (people) happy so feed them just enough so the sheeple do not turn into zombies.
Right now Greece is a type of experiment in motion (apologies if that sounds cold, it is not meant to be) and with the people organizing there and rioting/striking the last thing non-Greece countries/States want is the same or worse on a grand scale. It is a delicate balance.. and imho why the USA Gov will keep extending UE benefits to keep the sheeple from turning into 'zombies' and then uprising.
Yes, we do indeed live in interesting times and when in doubt, and while i DO NOT trust this man (E.L Rothschild) nor his family and their motives, there are a few things he said i do agree with and will point one out.
Do as the world's richest family does and within this interview he says, "If you are very safety conscience you hang on to your gold bars."
See 6:20 mark in this video:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzuCOTOzSBo
The entire video in interesting, yet remember he is also talking 'his book'.
JMHO...DYOD...etc.
if they would seize the ira why wouldn't they seize the gold (considering the historical precedent of having seized it once before)? gold miners seems (was) safer. but who knows? there were few prosecutions. but how would you sell it? like "illegal" drugs today (black markets)?
First, DO NOT fall for the pre-33 coin sales pitch from unscrupulous vendors. Yes gold was confiscated yet remember gold coins were actual currency before 1933. Today this is not the case and since gold is a world commodity and investment tool it is imho impossible for the US government to try to pull that scam again.
Period.
Seriously, end of discussion on that topic as have studied that carefully for years. Of course the US Government could outlaw beef, or cars, or blue jeans. Right now the USA is ruled by banksters and corrupt thieves, yet even thieves have a code of conduct to some degree. In addition, if the USA outlawed gold the price would skyrocket, thus making the US dollar seem weak. Controlling and ensuring the faith of a FIAT currency is key to a country's survival.
PS: And since the US government does not control the US dollar (also known as the Federal Reserve Note), the US Government is at the mercy of the Federal Reserve. "Give me control over a nations currency and I care not who makes its laws" Baron M.A. Rothschild. The very tight-knit family predecessor of the same Rothschild in the CNBC video i linked to within my above post.
Connect the dots as it were.
-----------------------
As for mining stock, they might be fun trades on the Las vegas-styled Wall Street, yet you are adding risk to risk. As such, imho always buy and hold PHYSICAL gold coins/bars of known source (JM and Pamp bars preferred, yet if you insist on coins then Canadian Maple Leafs and Krugerrands).
Well, something is better than nothing. Obama does NOT want to have to go on television to explain:
"Sorry folks, but all that money you thought you had in pension funds, mutual funds, stock, bonds, real estate and insurance policies is, well, gone. You got tricked fair and square, and now its time to move on."
A ZIRP implies that financial assets have no value. Asset markets are going to correct to pre-1980 levels (if not 1960) at least in real terms.
By promising that people will get SOMETHING for their troubles (instead of NOTHING), he may be able to stave off angry masses with torches and pitchforks - who are going to have this crazy idea that, somehow, Washington and Wall Street absconded with all that money.
What are you talking about losing all your money. My 401k was down 16% in 2008 and up 25% in 2009 -- and I am no rocket scientist. Wake up and handle your own affairs -- it is called take personal responsibility.
Or just continue whining and pray the government (i.e., taxpayers) comes to save you with other people's money.
We already tried the Obama retirement income for life plan -- it is called Social Security and it is a spectacular failure. He is a moron.
Re: Republicans vs Socialists -- for nearly all of the GWBush presidency, when looking at the potential political spectrum, the difference between Republicans and Democrats was virtually imperceptible. And it has only marginally changed since then (you can count conservative Senators on one hand).
Both parties worship at the shrine of big government. Sadly it is what the vast majority of Americans want. They just aren't liberty and personal responsibility folks.
Tell the millions of old people who receive Social Security that it's a spectacular failure. In the WORST case scenarios, SS runs out of trust fund to pay full guaranteed benefits in twenty years. That's enough time for even our blighted political system to figure out a fix (Hint: eliminate the cap on SS taxable earnings, and throw in some triggers for annual 0.1% increases to be evaluated on ana annual basis).
Anon #254890 is the kind of person who believes he can still write checks (for any amount) because he still has more checks in his check book. Which sadly matches the intelligence level of about 50% of the people in the US.
Understand current recipients (particularly those with <10 year remaining lifespan) think SS is great since they are getting my SS contributions. You, like many other Americans, have no understanding of actuarial soundness.
If the fix was so easy, why has it proven so difficult to fix?? Because the enormity of the problem will cause chaos with many of the electorate who have dutifully paid SS taxes, but will not even get a return of investment much less a return on investment.
Hopefully you do understand the idea was you not only get back what you contributed, but also a return on those contributions. There is no fix for the amount of SS contributions I (and millions of others) have personally made into the "trust fund." The fix you are proposing is a "soak the rich" tax -- turning Social Security into welfare for the elderly via means tested contributions. Why not just return everyones contributions when they retire -- now that would be fair. (I know they can't - because they don't have the money -- they already spent it).
Sadly your world view of such issues is one of the major problems with our country.
I am all for a "Don't touch my retirement savings act".
I would like to go one step further: a lump-sum, tax-free, penalty-free withdrawal from a retirement plan of any kind of up to $100 000 per year for the next three years.....
And WHY NOT? It's the folks who have been diligently saving that are not getting any kind of break, anywhere. Plenty of people have no other tax break than the reduction of income due to the contribution to their retirement account. It is high time to throw us a bone, too.
All these proposals being floated have the stamp of the mutual fund & insurance lobbies in bright red letters all over them. And Mr. Bogle of Vanguard fame? Their launching of index funds was the beginning of the end.
Vote with your feet, folks.
I am from the UK so a 401k may be a little different than the UK pension system, Be rest assured the level of thieft and goal post movements in UK pensions, You have to be totally stupid to risk your hard earned cash in such a fraud ridden high risk investment vehicle.
The US/UK are kind of inline so my take on this, It would be wise to assume the worst and consider alternatives.
sometimes even a "partisan hack" can do a great thing--a great thing is a great thing even if it is for partisan reasons.
Great thanks to Mr. Gingrich!
A-ah-ahh-ah, ah-ah-ahh-ah
We come from the land of the ice and snow
from the midnight sun where the hot springs blow
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands
To fight the horde and sing and cry, Valhalla, I am coming
On we sweep with, with threshing oar
Our only goal will be the western shore
Ah-ah-ahh-ah, ah-ah-ahh-ah
We come from the land of the ice and snow
from the midnight sun where the hot springs FLOW
How soft your fields, so green
can whisper tales of gore, of how we calmed the tides of war
We are your overlords
On we sweep with, with threshing oar
Our only goal will be the western shore
S-so now you better stop and rebuild all your ruins
for peace and trust can winthe day despite of all you're losin'
Ooh-ooh, ooh-ooh, ooh-ooh, ooh-ooh, ooh-ooh, ooh-ooh
Ahh, ooh-ooh, ooh-ooh, ooh-ooh
Ooh-ooh, ooh-ooh, ooh-ooh, ooh-ooh, ooh-ooh, ooh-ooh
Definitely not a dumb rock band!
Oh yeah, you know this is going to happen.
Just how in the fuck do you think we can pay for all the predator drones, FAE bombs and Blackwater mercs we're going to need when we invade Iran AND levitate the SPX all at the same time?
I bet they roll up the 401k heist along side some sort of Social Security 'Reform' (see: privatization swindle) in the dead of night, just like Patriot Act, during some sort of national emergency, like a 4 alarm bond market 'dislocation' or the Middle East lighting up like a roman candle.
Surely that will buy the banksters a few more years of record breaking bonus seasons. With that sort of money rolling in, they might even be able to blow a few more bubbles.
"Gingrich's article - like Gingrich himself - is highly partisan. He has helped create a false partisan divide-and-conquer strategy in this country, distracting people from realizing that we are all Americans. And instead of admitting that both the Republican and Democratic parties are just two branches of the fat cat party (and that both promote socialism for the rich), Gingrich pretends that only the Democrats are socialists."
...realizing that we are all Americans..."? And what color is the cotton candy on your Sugar Mountain, sir? Republicans are "socialists"? College bong-passers might argue that "they are all alike", but American history suggests otherwise: Which party was it that thwarted Bush's attempts to privatize a teeny bit of Social Security? And just look at how the parties line up on Obamacare. Since we're "all Americans", and the GOP are as socialist as the Dems, shouldn't the Repubs support the bill?
Wh-What month were you born in? Le-lemme me guess: Je-june.
Under both Bush and Obama:
Massive giveaways to Wall Street
Massive debt spending
Massive launch/escalation of wars world wide
Massive spying on Americans
Massive crackdown on civil liberties under the guise of war on terror
Yeah, the elephant and donkey are really really different.
elephonkey or donkphant?
btw, good article as usual GW
The two parties are are no different, agreed, but why drag Gingrich's comments into a legitimate discussion, if to do nothing more than take cheap shots at him? I'm no fan of the guy, I've and worked in and around the DC area for fifty years, I've heard the stories about the guy. But who the hell cares what he has to say about this issue? It's not like he holds office or is an investment advisor or a renowned economist. Feck 'em. If you have a case to make about a grab on retirements being made by the feds, then make it and leave out what appears to be partisan potshots.
The 401k (equities) investing started in 1982 and has been a the bane of American middle class savings !! Check what markets have done after 1982 .. its embarassing really !!
More bankster stuff. The propaganda is ramping up – just this morning on NPR there was an “informational” story about how everyone’s IRAs are down and an annuity type product would be better AND no less than John Bogle was chiming in on it. That means they are implementing the transfer schemes already in the back offices and ‘they’ – always the ‘they’ - have arranged to ‘pay off’ the mutual fund guys handsomely to collaborate on this.
401ks and IRAs are handled by two different congressional committees. That separation presents a pretty big hurdle.
I worked on the committee that handles 401ks this summer and all I have to say is don't hold your breath.
Thanks for that, but the fact is, I can't
even believe this is being discussed.
This is nothing but wealth confiscation,
Argentina style. And once things get bad enough, I have no doubt they will do it.
Time to come up with a cash out plan, eat the
tax and penalities and convert to PM's
before its too late