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One American's response
This is good. I can't stand Bush or Pelosi. I think they are all a bunch of criminals.
Most all politicians are scumbags regardless of what party they are affiliated with.
I keep hoping we get to the point where it's not Republican vs. Democrat, but us vs. Republicans and Democrats.
ding ding! that's it. bingo!
Note to Project Mayhem... Bush is no longer Pres.
Economy started tanking 2006. Guess what happened in 2006? Anti-American "enemy within" took power of Congress. There is a difference.
1) Democrats didn't take power til January 2007 (elections weren't held til November 2006).
2) The tanking started happening in 2007. August 2007 or so, to be more precise.
3) What happened in August 2007 wasn't that the economy started sucking, it was that the Ponzi game that the unregulated financial markets had become had started to become exposed.
4) So when did this Ponzi scheme begin? Try 2002 or so. And who was in power then? The un-Americans indeed. Folks like you who engage in revisionist history and blatant lies to try to disempower actual Americans.
You're either a clueless pawn or evil. Either way, STFU until you have something honest to say.
Oh, come on. The Ponzi scheme started LONG BEFORE THAT.
The tendency for people to finance their lifestyles through the "always increasing" values of their homes started in the early 90's. It was propagated by the time that Congressman Frank and Senator Dodd forced banks to finance loans that they never should have and culminated with the delivery of ever complex financial instruments that no one understood.
So who's to blame? How about the American public, will they ever step up to the plate and say "yea, that was my bad" or will we always try to find a scapegoat in the politicians?
We the people did this to ourselves. The sad thing is that there are many people in this country (like my parents and myself) who owe nothing other than the mortgage on their house, have never done a cash-out refinance, save 15% a year and live within our means who are collateral damage in this mess. But until we realize that the western "stnadard of living" was and is unstustainable this will not end.
She's not just an embarassment to All That Served...I didn't serve and she's a huge embarassment to me too.
Throw the hypocritic shills out of Congress...but then the halls would be barren.
But I like fruitcake, nuts, tuna and pineapple. Would make for a nice salad.
That's one salad no one wants to toss.
finally someone told that bitch like it is; I'm not an American, but i don't need to be, because the concepts of loyalty and patriotism are universal. Good job man + 1 trillion
What we need is a pay per view smackdown. Cheney vs Rahm, CondoLIEza vs Pelosi!
So glad to know there is normal people from England? I just broke up with a couple of friends from England becasue I forwarded some political satire to them and they accused me of being hateful and racist! I am a naturalized citizen, came to the USA from Mexico and I wanted to have the right to vote that's why I pledged my allegiances to this my adoptive country. Loyalty and Patriotism to me is like duty and honor. My heart still beats faster when I hear the Mexican anthen, but when I got sworn in I promised to defend and uphold the Constitution of the US and I mean it with tears running down my cheeks and from the bottom of my heart. I love the USA. And I am not a Mexican-America....I am an AMERICAN! We the people of the USA are finally waking up and holding our elected official accountable. As far as I am concerned I am going GREEN this next elections I will RECYCLE CONGRESS in 2010!
thanks for printing this TD.
love the reference to hubby's Dole interests....so, Nancy, how's that minimum wage thing that you believe so strongly in going in American Samoa?
I've always said that the biggest problem Obama has is Pelosi and Rahm, not the Repubs!
Speaking from the perspective of a severely disabled war veteran the only real disgrace is not to call facts to power. Since power corrupts and we find ourselves mired in a rent to own government ruled by Oligarchs and their self serving Kleptocrats everyone must find the courage to be loyal to the institution of responsible self government or we are all in serious trouble.
Project Mayhem has it. The current crop of rent to owns are all corrupt and simply reflect two sides of the same coin.
Why wasn't anybody concerned when right wingers were going around saying that people who disagreed with the war were "treasonous"?
As in "He who disagrees with the commander in chief during a time of war is giving aid and comfort to the enemy." (Which was then defined as treason in the next sentence by so many.)
I guess maybe I should go yell at people when they're holding a meeting as a form of discourse.
Then I could be patriotic too.
wrong site buddy; you probably wanted to go to HuffPost
No no. Has a good point, and this is the right site for good points.
I don't like injecting much politics here. Enough of that elsewhere. But intelligent people can see past all this bombast and recognize it for what it is; demagoguery.
There are things to resolve. Matters at hand to grapple with. Pelosi is a product of her times, and a creature of the political process. As as GW Bush. As are they all. They are all part of a bigger problem that is keeping us from dealing with simpler ones, and now the simple problems are killing us. Because the bigger problem has become systemic, and is created by corporations buying influence in government in excess of their actual importance to the country, and in furtherance of their goals toward profit and nothing more.
Pelosi and all the others have been bought, if not in fact then certaining in principle. This is a tragic outcome for the world's oldest democracy, and we will now need to bend our wills towards fixing that or else everything else we try to do will be corrupted at the start, twisted into another money making opportunity for entrenched interests.
+1 You said it so much better than I would have. To me, this letter (and the name-calling that passes for political or policy discussion by both parties and lots of other folk) is symptomatic of our country's apparant inability to deal with our problems instead of becoming distracted by personal attacks. It's like we have ADHD and would rather fight over trivia than work (preferably together) on our problems. It's more fun to poke others, stir up anger, and call names than to try to solve our problems, even when those problems are harming us all. I feel like I'm watching a bunch of first-graders who still hold strong grudges from kindergarten interact without adult supervision.
"watching" is the problem
You nailed it.
The Left vs. Right is the oldest strategy in the book: Divide and conquer.
The real discussion is actually how statist do we want the country to be.
You are exactly right sir. Republicans and Democrats are simply two sides of the same coin. Change please!
Which is why 180 degree change is needed.
G Celente has some extreme views, but a 'revolution' of some sort is needed, or at least an un-connected 3rd party of people who want whats best for the country, not a lifelong spot at the trough; term limits, eliminate lobbysists prosecute the guilty and complicit in the crisis (regulators, CEO's, politicians). AKA a true house cleaning.
Do that and 80 % of problems will be on the way to being fixed.
As it is, the current 'witch hunt' is all smoke and mirrors.
those become mandatory and they control the pricing of the insurance they can put every bank that is not their
good articles; my newest bookmarked finance site ..http://www.. hat tip: finance news & finance opinions
those become mandatory and they control the pricing of the insurance they can put every bank that is not their friend
Doubleplus good comment! You've just earned five Barack Bucks for redemption at the myBarackObama.com Prize Center... just 9,995 Barack Bucks to go until that sweeeeeet 18-speed Huffy is yours!
"Why wasn't anybody concerned when right wingers were going around saying that people who disagreed with the war were "treasonous"?"
Are you saying that did not concern you at all? I'm surprised, usually you are more sensetive to thos issues.
Because the "right wingers" were fringe and are the extremists, though the press tried to make them look like the mainstream of conservative thought.
The dems are too weak to react properly. Whining like yours only reinforces the perception that the dems cannot stand up to rigorous public events.
If you're pissed off, get into their face, but don't come here and cry.
agree.......more right wing drivel.
that said, , tho a Dem, I'm no fan of our "leadership" right now, expecially including Pelosi, Reid, Summers and Geithner.
I intend to vote against all incumbents in coming elections.....get the pigs away from the trough.
quoting liberal moronic comment #43337: "Why wasn't anybody concerned when right wingers were going around saying that people who disagreed with the war were "treasonous"?"
because no one listens to ann coulter, as she is a sensationalist. nancy pelosi is an ELECTED OFFICIAL.
Ad hominem attacks are so helpful. Thanks.
interesting... I'd say anon 43728 could rest his case. Too bad, usually your breath isn't wasted. I'll read you with a different eye in the future.
this doesn't imply that I like Ms Coulter. Just tired of kindergarten drivel.
Anybody was concerned. The principles of freedom of speech have to apply equally to all people regardless of political affiliation.
For the next war, we should have a draft to put banker CEOs on the front line and see if they are as excited to have countries go to war with each other (it increases national debt, they are private banks and they profit handsomely from the interest on debt created with the click of their mouse button).
There were plenty of articles about that, even at the time, pointing out that those "right wing" statements were equally ridiculous as statements from those such as Pelosi.
Good luck whining about it like a little beotch. We're too inteligent for that sort of crap, here.
You missed the post above...
"I keep hoping we get to the point where it's not Republican vs. Democrat, but us vs. Republicans and Democrats."
They're all assholes, one is barely better than the other. It doesn't matter which site spouts that sort of BS, it's still BS.
People have been deluded into thinking they really have a CHOICE when it comes to election time. Having to choose between a shit sandwich or an ass burger isn't exactly what I consider to be the sort of choice everyone is looking for.
two big-ass thumbs up!! the only way i can see this country making it through another decade is if WE fire evry single one of ththe assholes that are currently running the government! sarah Palin may or may not be what the country needs, but we do need leaders with life experience... not ones who know nothing but law school and politics>
massive props. +10,000.
Nice. I too find it absolutely disgusting that our politicians are calling protesters 'un-american' and accuse them of using 'fascist tactics.' what the hell?!? I fought to defend the American right to disagree, regardless of the cause. I personally think the tea party/death panel protesters are dipshits. However, I would die defending their right to protest and defend their beliefs
What goes around comes around. Perhaps folks should have thought twice before calling anti-Iraq protesters un-American. Personally, I view most of these astro-turf protest movements as un-American and in the best interest of corporations, sponsored by corporations.
I love when these yo-yo's reference their military experience as if that alone gives them greater rights to speak out.
As for Pelosi, I can't stand the bitch.
Clearly you live in outer space. Most Tea Party groups have ZERO affiliation. This is a sad, transparent liberal lie made up by morons who cant think on their own.
Surely you saw the virulent You Tube video with the correspondent getting pwned by someone for saying just what you did.
CNN has toned it down ever since.
Ps- Tell your Obamatard friends the pendulum is swinging back to the people.
PSS--See the silly charts lately? This Economy is toast and so is your fascist Congress and the WH.
Have a nice day, jackelope.
Define "fascist" for us please.
This should be interesting.
Double post deleted
You must not know about the $80 billion dollar deal Obama just did in the backroom with Big Pharma.
You must not know that the baby boomer generation will generate huge costs for health care and that this is actually a national security threat about cost savings to avoid bankruptcy. It is sold to the public as providing universal and cheaper health care - the public usually can't handle the truth, they want to be told what they want to hear.
The only hope for generating profit for corporations in the US is cost reductions - there will be little to no revenue growth for some time in aggregate for corporations. Corporations want this because they could show profits by eliminating health care costs (a huge chunk of their current costs) and adding the burden to taxpayers.
Corporations want this, wake up! Connected health care companies will make more by insuring more individuals, big pharma just cut their deal, and other companies will drop their health care costs when a public option becomes available - just like retired health plans are subordinate to medicare first.
I may tire of always holding your hand anonymous and instead of telling you the way things really are, perhaps I could join the politicians in manipulating you by telling you what you want to hear and then pushing my agenda. You may think this is free, but someone has to pay for it - that someone might begin to despise you and when you are in a weakened health state the health state might decide to favor producers over moochers and pull the plug (your plug). At the repeal of Glass Steagall, Larry Summers (current economic advisor) cautioned and prepped the bank lobbyists that they had to spin it in the interest of the common good. When the Fed was created, it was unknowingly drafted (Federal (not) Reserve (none) act) by the bankers and passed off as reform to stop the bankers.
To be honest, many of the recent war protesters were actually looking out for service men and women - they can't speak out, they need to follow orders and the chain of command. You are right about the double standard on both sides, politics unfortunately is about competing interests, when we put party above principle it is selfish - elevating your personal interests above the public good. I want you to see this, to transcend, and realize neither corporations or Obama or your party give a shit about you - they really don't, it's just an amalgamation of personal interests. Be a leader not a follower, think for yourself and look out for yourself and your liberties. Seek distributed power in religion, banking, military, media, and politics since absolute power corrupts absolutely.
As for the individuals posting, we do not know for sure if they served since it is an anonymous blog. If they choose to serve they may have done it for their own reasons as we all choose an occupation, but I personally admire anyone that is willing to go into a war zone - courage is action in the face of fear. And for those individuals that are injured, they have my thanks and appreciation. I know that if we had nobody that was willing to sacrifice we would be a third world country, we would be communist or fascist by now and would have no freedom of speech.
I love this letter, and agree that at the next war this guy should write another letter supporting the rights of free speech if they are criticized. With the last war, we were scared into it with no debate. Fear appears to be the systems most potent weapon - live in an attitude of gratitude and fear can not exist (False Evidence Appearing Real). Never trade liberty for security.
Dude. You need to start your own blog to post your jibberish.
Dude where's my car? Or are you from Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure?
Thanks for enlightening us all with your insightful post on a zero counter point.
Those that can't understand or rationally debate, those with low IQ, try to attack the messenger because the message is too strong. You need to stop reacting emotionally and use your brain and think for yourself. I would respect your argument if you had one and we could debate the merits of a perspective.
Have a good weekend on your dude ranch.
Thanks for saying what must be said.
Virtually, all the politicians in the US have sold out to big business. They've all been busy grabbing their little piece of the pie until there is nothing left. The sad fact is how much time the little guy spends fighting each other as a Dem or Republican, while the rich are busy picking the carcass clean. Of course, main stream media just keeps goading this battle on. The little guy has to wake up and see this isn't a battle between right and left but rich and poor.
Damn right. The haves and have nots!
"The little guy has to wake up and see this isn't a battle between right and left but rich and poor."
How many poor guys you know that run a business? The kind of thinking you espouse is exactly the stuff that labor unions feast on.
The rich are not your enemy. The poor are not your enemy.
And the rich "in general" are not your enemy... like "most rich people are...".
Rent seekers are the enemy. Those who seek payment for no service rendered, and take it by force, are your enemy.
WalMart gets you the cheapest basket of goods available. Take it? Your own choice.
Chevy makes uneconomical, low reliabilty vehicles. Buy one? Not your own choice. You bought one. A CEO's decision? No. Your senator's decision.
"Rent seekers are the enemy. Those who seek payment for no service rendered, and take it by force, are your enemy."
Everyone here is either rich, or looking to become rich. So we all understand that bias. But I doubt you have correctly identified the enemy.
Like it or not, the enemy is greed.
The things that are currently falling apart (and there are many) are falling apart due to greed. It's become the Tragedy of the Commons played out on a global scale. Everyone getting theirs first, getting out first, getting somewhere safe first knowing that the walls are coming down. Waiting for the fire to spread. How do you rationalize a discussion at that level?
Unbridled greed cannot be sustained. Greed is killing us slowly, could start killing us quickly at any time and certainly will once the P/E of societal collpase is discovered and a market created to trade it. The thing that destroys us in the end will have come from our blind side, like a poison laced into a pleasure we are only too happy to consume.
The invisible hand says hello.
Greed itself is not the problem - our whole society is based on the effectiveness of capitalism in using 'greed' to channel individual efforts toward the greatest common good. Instead, it's the inexorable growth of government (and its inherent distortions of the market mechanism) that is the issue.
No. You are muddying the meaning of greed.
Greed in psychology is an excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth.
Greed in psychology is an excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth.
Greed is not good and humans have know that for ages.
See Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins#Greed
Perhaps next you'll tell us gravity is not good and we need to stop that too.
Greed and gravity are facts of life. If you can't accept that, good luck, because they ain't changing.
Greed is a fact of life. That means we need to build systems which acknowledge that and build it into the system, rather than fetishizing it and claiming that unregulated, unbridled greed will lead to optimal outcomes.
Ayn Rand is for 8 year olds.
Greed vs selfishness... subtle but important. We are taught from 3 years-old not to be selfish, yet it is that very trait which keeps us each alive. Greed could be defined as "excess selfishness", which is not-so-critical to our survival, but rather having a nasty cost on a group's motivation/success as a whole. Neither force going away soon.
One could argue that greed allows us to create buffers (more than we need right now), but buffers are also part of why most of the living were able to be born. So greed or selfishness? Where's the line? I'm sure there are a few politicians out there eager to draw that line...
Greed is not the problem.
Cronyisim is the problem.
Along with fiat currency, central banks, too much centralized power, etc. etc.
It's all moot anyway, we'll need a new financial/monetary system around 2012. Go, go Mayan prophecy!
TD, while I read your blog daily and appreciate your presentation of facts regarding the markets, this is utter bull. While I am not a huge fan of Pelosi, her comments were totally misrepresented. Pelosi called un-American those who would attempt to drown out those who are trying to express their opinions. I think we could all agree that that is un-American. Here is a direct quote of Pelosi:
I believe the Founding Fathers who wrote the Constitution would find the current Federal Govenment (of which Ms. Pelosi is third in line to the succession to the Presidency) un-American. I cannot imagine they had visions of such an elistist bitch being in such a high position of power.
That was a strange thing to say. It seems you haven't given a lot of thought to their vision, for which they were quite prepared to be hanged. In fairness, yours is a common affliction.
It's not about personalities. It's not even about persons. It's about doing the right thing, even when it is difficult. Even when it is costly.
Even when it cuts into profits.
Pay attention. It's become serious. None of us are getting a second chance.
....HAHAHAHAHAHA----Media Matters as a quote source???? That's rich, it's Hillary Clinton's website!!!.....HAHAHAHAHAHA
actually media matters is funded by Soros i think
Funded by the crony liberal George Soros ! Whose filthy rich and wants to screw over all the others that might get up to his lvel by taxing the hell out of them.
Feel the same way about the Associated Press?
Honestly, what is truly American is to listen to one another, back one's opinions up with facts, and admit when one wrong.
Pay attention, everyone. Something has come unwound.
Another rightwingnut opens his yap. They are pathetic.
No. They are merely lost. This is not their fault.
We go together and survive, or we each go to Hell on our own.
Becoming a member of Congress long ago stopped being public service and is self service.
Now how do we change that?
While I agree that Pelosi (and most of Congress) is not working in our best interest, I take exception to the insulting comment regarding California. I was born in San Francisco and Mr. Guthrie only shows his ignorance by blindly referring to the city of fruits and nuts. He can take his reactionary intolerance and stick it up his ***
Ummm.... Diamond Emerald is out there buddy!!
Oh Pleez the Zh poll shows we ought to give CA to the Chinese. CA is an embarrssment to the rst of the country, asking for a bailout b/c of EPIC fails by your politicians.
He's totally correct except he should have said all of you are nuts.
sticks and stones, takes one to know one, who(m)ever smelt it dealt it... I was gonna say something bad about NC, but they're probably getting some good surf right now.
What's happening in CA ought to be an abject lesson to folks like you about the failure of your "conservative" vision (which isn't actually conservative, but is actually fairly radical-- the idea that we should follow a theoretical proposition (unregulated markets are good, and even better when we provide tax incentives to investors), which in its past forms has led to massive fraud-driven bubbles followed by equally epic economic failures (see, e.g., US 1920s-30s, Latin America 1980s-90s, all of this IMF-led nonsense in the Third World since then), off of a freaking cliff is asinine.
California, contrary to "conservative" conventional "wisdom", is not suffering because of overly high taxes or regulation. Quite the contrary. It's actually got an enormously successful business base, and a huge and thriving economy. What's happening there is a disaster led by the "no taxes, no regulation" movement, which managed to strangle any possibility of a manageable budget, which is killing infrastructure and scaring away businesses. A small group of RW idiots is holding up that state's progress and endangering its well-being by insisting on more tax cuts in return for their votes. And why do they have such power? Because their predecessor RW idiots managed to pass a constitutional amendment which a) totally screwed up the tax code such that existing residents are heavily favored over newcomers, skewing tax rates across the board; and b) requires a supermajority for tax increases. Which means that CA is hosed right now.
I'll tell you what though. You take those RW Orange County sons of bitches and ship em off to the Middle East where they belong (low taxes, lots of sand and golf, no equal rights for women, and religious fundamentalism galore), and California's back to being a liberal, productive, high tech center again.
You people are the Fifth Column in this country. You're no different than the Taliban.
sure, and where do you live, and where do you have your business? I can smell the laziness in your post.
Pelosi is a Whore who rides the Beast.
I think you need to reverse that.
What an warped guy!
The whole mess started with that jerk Reagan and his "deficits don't matter", followed by Bubbles Greenspan sucking up to Bush.
For too long America has been living in a warped reality. Yes the Vietnam war was wrong, and so was Iraq. And spending more than you make continuous is also wrong (or at least STUPID).
But hey...got to have the cake and eat it too. Blame the commies and the socialists, but never blame yourself, never look in the mirror.
It wasn't Reagan's fault alone. It was every administration who listened to Greensssspan's claptrap.
So that would be all of them since Carter. At least he let Volker do what had to be done.
There is an alternative if you don't like Republicans or Democrats, then why not look at the Green Party?
Consider becoming a practical Libertarian, which is someone who believes in the least amount of goverment practical, not possible.
Then I'll at least have one other person to talk political BS to! XD
Well, they (the protesters) are using tactics which do not encourage open debate but are designed to stifle others expression; that's the sense in which it's "un american" (although given the history of quasi fascist behavior by the right, it's perhaps more american than americans would like to believe...). Pelosi is a partisan twit but Guthrie is just applying right wing bully tactics & wrapping himself in the flag to immunize himself.
Why is this on zerohedge?
If she is elected again I will lose my hope in democracy...wait do I have any? NO.
She's a fruitcake, a nut, and a disgraceful American. That makes her the perfect person to represent her constituents. I doubt they will fire her.
That wasn't very sharp. You just dissed the world's 8th largest economy, and the world's 7th largest democracy (because China isn't.)
Where you from? Iran?
Pelosi does not represent the entire state of California. She represents a very liberal slice of San Francisco.
Which reminds me - when's the last time anyone raised a peep of protest over the gerrymandering of safe House districts for both parties? Thought I'd throw one more item onto the heap of disgraceful behavirs being discussed.
Not anymore it ain't.
Beautiful, just beautiful. Now to the negative; no matter how much you love the former United States, you cannot help but have hopelessness, if for no other reason than someone like Nancy Pelosi could become the house speaker. I can see how Obama got elected (99% of one particular race voted for him strictley because of race (racism)). However, the fact that a diverse congress voted for Pelosi to represent the largest governing body in the former United States proves that this country is cooked; no matter what side you taste. Sorry, I know that is negative, but it is just plain true.
"guy voted for Dubya, who was such a brilliant and accomplished president words even cannot describe."
At least the man did not have a yellow streak running up and down his back!!
It was OK when GWB called anyone who disagreed with him un-American or unpatriotic?
I also wonder if he has read the Constitution recently? If so, I would like him to follow up with the section that spells out that the country is 'capitalist republican', while he's at it he can explain what a 'capitalist republican' form of government is?
You guys might want to get clear on a few facts before spouting off (trying to save you some face here)...
1. We do not have a democracy. We have a republic.
2.We do not have a socialist, communist, or other financial system, we supposedly have a capitalist system (however at the moment, we have a facist financial system (per Mussolini), at best a crony capitalist system. Hopefully we'll get that cleared up in a few years.)
+1, except that it appears that 99% of the commenters on here don't really understand (or care to learn) the differences between the differences you're describing.
I've heard Obama called a communist, a socialist, and a Nazi in the same sentence! Flip-flop indeed.
Just got done emailing him my thanks
this letter is toilet paper.
go sexism! male republican politicians have much worse things than "un-american" about protesters.
people shouting down people at town hall meeting are fucking idiots. bringing a gun to a public discussion at which your president, or other politicians are present, is un-american.
"watering the tree of liberty" is a rallying cry of these morons. it is also a not very thinly veiled advocacy of violent disobedience against the state. advocating violence against a democratically elected government, especially one that can be blocked every two years as the entire house is re-elected, is un-american. the american democratic process is how disputes are settled. to go outside that system when obvious, more effective alternatives exist for no good reason is un-american.
so take your cave-man insecurities about powerful women, and shove them up your ass.
"democratically elected government"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA; you poor naive man
the dude with the "I heart goldies" username. i have never heard of this until i stumbled upon an article in 04 just before the elections. Democracy is a Simulacrum worth preserving for the Simulation to continue. ( and to truly put it into the realm of SF; the gate keepers are artificial forms ) Turing must be smiling somewhere from the above.
Bertrand Russell said in his autobiography: " The best political system is dictatorship; but the only flaw in that is that the dictator would need to be Jesus ". I think you get the message.
"Yep, democracy sucks"
I realize that was supposed to be a throw-away comment, and you do throw it away... nevertheless...
What I've always worried about is that corporations seem to do best under Fascism, and they seem to know this, and they might like to get rid of any functioning democracies that pose a barrier to profitablility. Mussolini coined the notion of "corporatism" as the unity of the State and corporations, IIRC, and I don't know if businesses feel he had that one wrong. Businesses act like they don't like State controls, but they seem (based on the American experience) to like running the State in line with their own interests. Human nature, one assumes, though played out at to a sociopathic extreme.
Democracy does not suck. Democracy allows real people to have a say in their fate, and their desires for safety and a decent quality of life sometimes runs counter to the desires of fake people (corporations) and that's fine with me. Let the fake people figure out how to survive without destroying the real people, that seems best all around.
OK, we'll do it your way:
"Yep, democracy sucks, but if done as well as possible, you get good results"
What part of that did not start with the concept that democracy sucks?
And, why do you have to do democracy "as well as possible" to get good results? See that's going to be a problem. Because... well... democracy is messy business. It's not clean. It's not efficient. That's the point, really.
So we're doomed to get poor results as a result? But then that means, we'll never get it right, right?
So we should do something more efficient. Something with fewer people maybe, with fewer choices. Yeah that's the ticket. Nobody votes anyway, so just give them a few choices once in a while, they'll ignore all that anyway, and we do what we need to do. Which is what we like. Whoever "we" are.
Welcome to 20th century Soviet Russia.
Hope that helps.
you are losing this game. The polls show it, the town halls show it.
Take it like a man and stop crying about it.
So what are you winning?
The victory of keeping a healthcare system that is bankrupting the nation.
so this is what we do
Fantastic! I haven't been that happy to read a letter to Congress in a while.
You should see some of the shit I fax to MY Congressmorons...
I hope you guys aren't going to start publishing this indignant bullshit as I have found this site to be informative and with limited political ideology. Don't take a page out of CNBC and Clusterstock. The jerk who wrote that letter is as much of a jerk as Pelosi, having voted in assholes all his life and done nothing to change what's happened except for his personal gain as a lawyer, another unproductive sector. Wear that Vietnam Service on you sleave asshole, no politician of either party gives a shit, nor does their master, Goldman Sachs.
If you want to keep on posting this kind of crap, move over to CNBC or Clusterstock. or you'll see the last of me, another Vietnam Nam veteran, who is proud of his productive life helping others.
Yeah the nerve of some guy who served his country and has Bronze Star to exercise his constitutional rights.
Nice job putting down one of your own "Anonymous" (yeah right)
Amen, well said
Yes, we have contemptable politicians, but you know what? This country is also INFESTED with fucking retards just like the letter writer.
More red meat for the right wing nutters.
What I find interesting about this is the rage that is behind it. This anger is very visable in our society. Town Hall meetings with citizens screaming at elected officials is a new thing. This trend needs to watched. Right now it is a curiosity. What does it look like if it gets worse? Debt repudiation, tax cheating and crime.
If you look back at American history, our political system has not been one that has been characterized by cool, calm debate. If it was we'd still be a part of the British Empire.
The rage, when it occurs, is rightfully directed at elected representatives who are not representing their constituents. Rage is absolutely justified in the face of an arrogant, unresponsive political elite.
On the contrary.
Its called secession.
look up groups such as "the 3%".
Good luck when that happens, all the productive states wil say "see ya libtards!"
IT is already happening through intimidation. The letters to the insurance companies asking for what???? exactly. The intimidation of doing what is acutually allowed by laws to put your money in trusts for asset protection in any number of places around the world. And the pay czar, what is that? IT is getting worse...The leveling of this country into a proletarian mass is part of the ideology of Dearest Leader and His Drones. And the beat goes on......
I like this blog. And while i get it that it is your blog ... i just want it be out of such political bs that has got nothing to do with what you primarily deal with. The guy did not add anything useful or intelligent to the debate (forget finance). Such unspecific rants from either wingers are the reason why we are in such a mess. So just stop publishing such nonsense.
I hate Nancy as much as any American, but continuing the hate, passing of innuendo, assumes superiority and thus begils the supposed sacrafice he made. I would contend that the sacrafice made by my grandfather, father, and brother, wasn't for the cause of fascism.
These kinds of posts drag zerohedge.com into the gutter. Isn't there anywhere on the web one can go seeking good, solid financial information without this kind of needless tripe?
You are becoming tiresome and predictable, Mr. Durden.
crzyhun - guess you forgot this guy that wouldn't p**& on you if you were on fire was a draft dodger; "hey daddy ..
i wanna learn how to fly jets but i don't wanna get hurt"...done son. people that vote against their own self interest are an interesting group.
p.s. gutherie letter is mysogynistic carping by a sore loser.
"..as do the majority of the people of this formerly great Country..."
So True so sad. The once great and thriving United States of America now rapidly becoming a squid-sucked hollow shell of its former self.
Man i am not from US, but after reading this - i really really start respecting you guys. The right to disagree with the politicians is a human right! And no corrupt business shark is gonna 'comment' and call it un-American.
WTF sitting in their Bentlee's, robbing people all over the world, getting paid by the huge corporations ... Money junkies!
I am so gonna come visit US sometime after the revolution :)
I gained a lot of respect for your nation lately :)
Pigs at the taxpayer trough are still pigs, regardless of their politics affiliation - as the author of this letter alludes to.....
"people that vote against their own self interest are an interesting group. "
I love our intelligentsia who thinks they can keep telling people what their self interest is.
Great letter! I'm sure Pelsoi and most of congress regard themselves as harmless and so add stupidity to iniquity. All of them believe they stand outside humanity's "black collective shadow". Mostly unconscious! Thus, they are destined to repeat there "dispositions", over and over again,.....there own unrecogonized evil leads to "projections" into the "other person".
Mr. Guthrie has a valid point for Ms. Pelosi, but strayed when it came to Ms. Fonda, who is probably the one female who saved the most American lives by helping end the Vietnam misadventure.
I still remember the nightly news and body counts - the US Generals used to count dead cows and goats to inflate the body counts of the enemy dead. Some war.
"p.s. gutherie letter is mysogynistic carping by a sore loser."
All critics of Pelosi are woman-haters. All critics of Obama are racists. Repeat.
Real deep thinker.
Pelosi needs to ride the Sybian
Thank goodness this windbag lawyer is getting his 15 minutes, if just to underscore the point that "Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American."
Not that I like Pelosi, but can we move on?
Well of course, Pelosi said something idiotic..again! Lets "move on" 'cause the left looks bad.
How about these people think before they speak?
Think before opening their mouths??!!
What a world it would be!
But you misunderstand: the "move on" comment was not motivated by any conspiracy, but simply from shear boredom with this topic.
Zero Hedge can do sooo much better than this drivel.
Well done Mr. Guthrie. Other than adding Bastiat's "The Law" to Pelosi's reading list, I wouldn't change a word.
Following the plans of Marx and Alinsky, funded by Soros, and supported by the press -- the leaders of the left are America temporarily. Therefore, for the first time in my life, I sadly claim to be un-American.
I hope that your letter is widely circulated and wakes those who have not yet realized they have been duped. Voices like your are much needed for the awakening.
I pray that one day we look back at these times and see that this period was needed to regain and fortify the country our Founders gave us.
Hats off to you sir.
Who, Augusto Pinochet
Ugh, so tired of the spitting on the Vietnam vet myth.
First of all, fuck this guy, his "service" to the country in Vietnam (defending the right of the US military to spray the countryside of a rural population with Agent Orange) and his son's "service" to this country (defending the right of Blackwater to wipe Muslims from the face of the Earth). I don't care for this oaf's idea of patriotism. More like nationalism.
Second, Charles RAPER Jonas? Are you fucking kidding me!?
Third, I want to be the one that personally hangs the rope from the street lamp that is reserved for Nancy Rotten-Crotch Pelosi.
I am Chumbawamba.
Hey guys, don't forget Chumba is the idiot that wants to do very bad illegal things to people.
One name for ya:
Yes, don't forget, please remember.
you told it like it is concerning the lawyer.
Our Founding Fathers would be equally appalled by both current political parties; to claim otherwise is pure nonsense. To insinuate that the "free market" is being defiled by one select group of politicians is blatantly ludicrous. Virtually every member of the American elite has and will continue to suckle greedily at the public-taxpayers' teat, enriching themselves at great cost to a vast swath of less-privileged citizens. If this man wishes to honor our country, he should start by opening his eyes to the whole of this massive theft, rather than showing plainly selective outrage.
Sorry TD but can you try not to put up stuff like this on the website, it attracts the wrong type, or wrong side of posters. Leave it the big media to argue whether going around picking fights or acting like the queen bitch is more un-american...strangely feels like high school.
Comedic relief helps now and then, though this guy is pretty blatantly a bigot or ignorant, but lets stick to the topics that our friends in D.C. don't understand.
A classic rightist diatribe. Petrosi et al. un-American? To paraphrase a voice from the '60s, they're as American as apple pie. And so is Mr. Guthrie. We're all on the same page, often in the same sentence. To think for whatever reason that any American is un-American is simply deluded. I understand the reasons for using this epithet, no matter who happens to be using it. It is a shit-slinging catchall engaged to try to win popularity and solidify one's own position.
Mr. Guthrie is outraged over the government's seeming to trample on his values. Other Americans, like myself, are offended by some of his values.
What is the content of this letter? Hatred, that is all. We will never solve any of the big issues confronting us as a nation unless we are willing to discuss the ISSUES instead of the personalities. This letter is not an informed protest by a "patriot" but rather a rant that does not add anything to the debate in an intelligent way. What a waste.
And, it does not deserve space at zerohedge.
"Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American. Drowning out the facts is how we failed at this task for decades."
^I think something that has become uniquely American is the way in which so many are quick to rush to judgment w/out taking the time to back-track, fact-check, and reach a rational position before commenting. The decision to publish the letter was poor taste - especially coming from a lawyer. It's really the epitome of irony. The moral high ground from a lawyer? Really? He's not exactly a civil-rights lawyer, either. The comments were (look for the AP link for example), indeed, taken out of context. As much as I don't like/care for Pelosi, you have to call this particular instance for what it is.
And one more thing...
We do realize that this letter comes from a lawyer, right? With quite some experience with lawyers, judges, various levels of courts, I can say with confidence that the great majority of lawyers are hypocritical, BSAs. There are a select few, oh so few, truly ideal attorneys - I've had the pleasure of meeting perhaps one - a junior one at that. I guess the wear and tear of the system hadn't set their meathooks into him, yet.
I've dealt with firms large and small from the client-side and I'm not exactly enthralled with the way the "law" is defended, applied, etc. If Mr. Guthrie wants to talk about shady figures in "public service" or even the shady way in which the system is set up, perhaps the spotlight ought to be turned on the legal system and its members. But then again, maybe it's just me and North Carolina is capable of unbiased, outstanding execution and adherence to Federal and State law. I can tell you there's nothing of that sort going on in California. Lady Justice may be blind, but it never said she didn't know the smell of money.
yeah, you're like..totally credible.
Obviously you haven't been through a divorce.
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