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Dennis Lets Zero Hedge Have It
Preamble: here is the original post... the supremely ironic thing is I didn't even say anything negative about DK.
First, I ask readers to watch the following clip
I want to make a few points:
First, I have respect for Dennis - he lays out his beliefs (regardless if these beliefs are based on completely flawed foundations or not) and defends them, on prime time TV, in a "financial news" medium whose very existence every viewer realizes is contingent on not only the continued viability of massively bad debt-laden GE (due to its inextricable ties with GE Capital, which lent out more toxic second liens than virtually any other entity), but by implication, the well-being of the overall economy, as well as the continued financial support by PIMCO and other financial company sponsors who have explicit and implicit ties with the current administration, and who profit exclusively from a rising market. In retrospect, one can see where Dennis' viewers may get confused by the blurry line between a hopelessly severe conflict of interest and honest personal opinion.
Second, I want to address some points that Dennis made in his monologue. Zero Hedge received an invite from Dennis' producer Dave at 1:34 pm to appear on the show. Of course, our frequent readers realize this is a non-starter for anyone at Zero Hedge due to the nature of our operation. We countered by offering a telephonic interview at an indeterminate point in the future (and desirous of at least a 24 hour advance notice: again, frequent readers will attest that I tend to post constantly, for about 18 hours a day), and even offered Dennis a forum on Zero Hedge to directly address our readers, whom he, we assume affectionately, had some florid words for. Nowhere did we give the impression we would have a call today, and offered up a date in two weeks for an extended call, which would take place upon my return from a reconnaissance trip to Europe (ironically to check up on some of GECC's major investments in the region: stay tuned for my observations). Our overture was denied, yet somehow Dennis decided to make a point of misrepresenting the communication that took place. We provide a transcript of the email exchange earlier for our readers' convenience.
Third, I would be very happy to have a sensible, rational discussion with Dennis on any topic of his choosing, and to demonstrate my opinion, which he may or may not agree with, as to why I find his conclusion that the recession is now over laughable. However, this will not occur on CNBC's 10 second sound bite terms: a good case in point is Dennis allowing the other blogger exactly 46 seconds of air time to justify his opinion, before cutting him off irreverently and turning off his microphone. Zero Hedge knows very well how prime time media operates. Which is why I, in turn, extend Dennis an invitation to appear on a podcast, or any other non-CNBC hosted venue of his choosing, for a deabte which will be as lengthy as necessary, without commercial or otherwise interruptions, without prepared notes, without tele- or ear-prompters, in which I am happy to deconstruct his thesis point by point, not having to worry about his producer cutting me off, or Fritz Henderson's bathroom break at 1 Bowling Green causing an epileptic fit inducing bout of CNBC Breaking News.
Fourth, as pertains to anonymity, Mr. Kneale would be well-advised to read the Zero Hedge manifesto:
though often maligned (typically by those frustrated by an inability to engage in ad hominem attacks) anonymous speech has a long and storied history in the united states. used by the likes of mark twain (aka samuel langhorne clemens) to criticize common ignorance, and perhaps most famously by alexander hamilton, james madison and john jay (aka publius) to write the federalist papers, we think ourselves in good company in using one or another nom de plume. particularly in light of an emerging trend against vocalizing public dissent in the united states, we believe in the critical importance of anonymity and its role in dissident speech. like the economist magazine, we also believe that keeping authorship anonymous moves the focus of discussion to the content of speech and away from the speaker- as it should be. we believe not only that you should be comfortable with anonymous speech in such an environment, but that you should be suspicious of any speech that isn't.
To this point, and this is where there is obviously major friction in opinions as I am not sure if Dennis, a TV pundit, can quite comprehend this, Zero Hedge is not about personalities, goatees or glasses - it is about ideas, facts and opinions. People come to Zero Hedge not because of my chiseled washboard abs, but because they appreciate my insight into things financial and economic. My personality is not relevant when discussing critical concepts. Who knows - maybe I do not care for being recognized while having diner at Campagnola. Zero Hedge realizes that a little individual humility when evaluating the trillions and trillions of debt which our children will inherit as a result of the current spending spree by the Administration (which may or may not end this immediate recession, only to result in a default of the US 10 years down the line), would come in useful: maybe Mr. Kneale should also consider that as he hopes to build credibility before his CNBC viewers.
Lastly, direct attacks by Dennis against Zero Hedge readers with pejoratives such as "digital dickweed" is somewhat beneath a person who, at least in his personal view, is sufficiently erudite to have an informed opinion on such critical issues as the end of a recession.
In conclusion, I have no bad blood with Dennis at all - I believe it would greatly benefit both Dennis' viewers as well as my readers to have a sensible discussion on this very relevant topic. I have proposed several ways in which this can be achieved: if Dennis would like to take on the challenge, I am game. If not, I understand: after all Zero Hedge is at the forefront of the "anonymous, dark and cowardly" blogosphere, whose corners Dennis would be the last person to brave as we deal not with the ethereal, bright lights of "hope and fortitude" but scary, mysterious concepts like facts and substance.
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just reading that gave me a digital dickweed.
Bravo TD.
Hold the high ground!
Dennis Kneale is such a moron it isn't even with your time to debate him. Better to spend your time keeping your readers informed.
Sadly, it's just as laughable to think that Dennis would take ZH up on the offer to participate in a discussion not bound by the comfortable terms CNBC provides for him. The second that's taken away, he and others like him become vulnerable.
Was Dave The Producer late for the short bus or what? He seemed to be having a little trouble navigating the simple concept of NOT TODAY, thank you.
How did this segment enlighten and/or enrich the audience of CNBC?
How does "dave" the producer justify calling this news and putting it on the air?
CNBC is infotainment. Not news.
Dennis Kneale is a Supreme dickweed.
Vikram pandit has monkey balls.
First, that guy came off as rather dickish. Second, your manifesto describes perfectly your use of anonymity. Lastly, I would thoroughly enjoy seeing Dennis squirm with the salty facts thrown at him by TD, let's let Project Mayhem begin already. I look forward to the first fight.
Dennis Kneale squirming while salty facts are shot in his direction?
As a visual, that's a bit much. But maybe that's how Kneale likes it.
Not that there's anything wrong with it.
CNBS.. what a crock.. so let me get this straight.. the offer was to go on their turf with 46 seconds to defend your views against CNBS's unofficial-paid- Fed spokesman-posing-as-anchors??
seriously, they must be smoking some green shoots.. so glad I have cancelled CNBS from my satellite dish.. what a joke they have become..
YOU HEAR THAT CNBS (and you obviously do read ZH)... you have lost so many viewers!!!!
Excellent point TD. My only worries are who will be updating us with daily market-related news when TD is out of town?
Dennis Kneale is a dickweed.
Tyler, congrats on new web site & the continuation of your & your team's excellent reporting.... Many readers, as do I, follow your web site with RSS readers - could you fix the RSS feed that it shows all embedded media files and the full text of the post please? Keep up the good work!
Ask him if Citi is ever going to go back to 40 when he said he guaranteed the next 10 points was up. Or if FRE / FNM are still good for a flyer?
First of all, good luck with the new site! Also would like to take the opportunity to thank all of you for the continuous effort of reporting what REALLY is going on....
Many readers, as do I, follow your site by means of RSS reader, could you fix the rss stream of the new site, so that it shows all embedded media files and the full article as with the old site please - keep up the good work
Most elegant retort.
(But, i did read ZH for the first time because of the chiseled washboard abs that i saw on twitter :)
But, when i read my first ZH article, i forgot about the picture!!! )
Dear Tyler, Unfortunately, Mr. Kneale will be otherwise engaged tending to CNBC's garden of green shoots (those damn seeds just don't seem to want to take this year) so he'll be unable to utilize any of the forums for discussion that you've proposed.
Around 1:27 in I thought to myself "who is dumb enough to watch this crap?" and then realized that my own IQ had dropped about 20 points -- so I stopped watching in order to post and let my brain recover.
TD, as much I push for the free exchange of ideas and healthy debate, going on this show is a suicide mission. There is no way to compete against the spin, flashy graphics, canned messages, douchebag hosts and slick producers of CNBC. They could make Mother Theresa look like Leona Helmsley in 15 seconds flat.
Your 18 hour days are best spent unearthing that which is hidden, not selling advertising for CNBC.
Agreed. As someone who has been quoted in the media before, I can tell you, it is a losing proposition, they will spin your words anyway they want.
I'll second that "agreed." I used to be a letter writer to a large paper in NJ for about 15 years with 8-10 letters of up to 350 words. There was an issue regarding Clinton's welfare reform and they called for an opinion. I included that Johnson's attemmpt at his "Great Society" destroyed the black family unit and in the inner cities, many black families are completely dysfunctional and lead to lives of crime. The story included my name and a supposedly direct quote of mine stating that black familes are dysfunctional and criminal. When I contacted the editor he stuck by the reporter's direct quote. So I played him the recording I had hit proving her to be wrong. They would not issue a correction, but allowed me a letter the next day to discuss Johnson's "Great Society" and how it had done what I had stated. If your words don't make the story bleed they will merely change them.
Socrates
Dear Socrates, please leave us with a few questions now and then if you wouldn't mind...thank you!
Dear agrotera,
After corrupting the youth of Athens - and that was proposterous as they were already corrupted and I was saving them - the question is if I should have asked for one lump of sugar or two, as I like my poison sweet.
Is a man a glutton if he sweetens his poison? Does he die a less digified death if he does? Have the heads of Goldman Sachs food and wine tasters yet?
Get back to me on those if you would.
Socrates
Thank you Socrates, and I think you were self respecting to have sugar in your poison by chosing sweetness in your last moments....the King James bible corrupted the translation of "blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth"--the more accurate translation would be blessed are the self respecting(how is that for a tiny little mistake!) so that would mean that you inherit the earth!
I better let some of the other student's give their ideas about GS...
ZH - I agree - mainstream media just make stuff up. It's "entertainment" designed around the ads. When will people finally understand this? The shows are literally designed and redesigned almost hourly around the ads that are booked.
I always enjoyed sitting with my "celebrity" friends and reading the daily newspaper telling about the incredible things that they said and did hundreds of miles away from where we were (with pictures!!).
Loved the explanation of the use of anonymity.
However, I think that you might have missed the point. They do not want your opinion? I would suggest that they only contacted you so that they could claim due diligence and fairness? In other words, it's a fun game for them - contact, mess up the contact and then they have free hand for the slander. Disagree? Is it really worth tens of thousands of dollars to fight them in court?
Suggestion : don't use so much space at the top of the web page for the header? I'm a heads-up display, at-a-glance kind of guy. A full 15% of the main page on my screen is black (black is the new black?). If I was going to be funny, I would think that you are making a statement - into the void, and beyond?
Thanks for a great blog and I like the new web site!
The longer you keep your anonymity, the more money I will donate to this amazing site.
Dont come out from behind the curtain.
anonymity = power!
Denninger also has a nice response up.
Respect, not so much.
To Dennis Kneale: You're An Idiot
Thanks - sounds as if he might have felt a little left out not being mentioned by name by DK.
http://market-ticker.org/archives/1175-To-Dennis-Kneale-Youre-An-Idiot.html
"
To Dennis Kneale: You're An Idiot
Since Dennis saw fit this evening on CNBC to "go after" bloggers who in turn had gone after him, yet he omitted The Market Ticker, I'll go ahead and put a full-on dredge out behind my stern and slow to 3kts.
And Dennis, if you would like me on your show, I'll be happy to appear. Phone is fine. And I'm not anonymous, nor do I want to be - CNBC already has has my full bio, my full name, and my CNBC-standard disclosure document back with a digital signature affixed. You can also "whois" this domain and get my full name and address. Good enough? Several employees of NBC Universal are on my forum and a CNBC producer has my direct email address - just ask around and I'm sure you can obtain it, and if you do email me I'll be happy to call you at your convenience.
OK, now on to the facts - your idiotic and utterly unsupportable "the recession is over" call.
...
"
Pete - still anonymous but trying real hard not to be.
How sad he is, trying to appear relevant by insulting what he probably thinks is the hot blogger of the day. What he does not understand is that what few intelligent viewers he has, will inevitably come to this website, read the above "high road" response, and then become faithful ZH subscribers themselves. And so his bandwith narrows accordingly.
All in all, you will likely get a stronger following while simply being reasonable, in the face of a childish demand for attention. Who would think this possible in a CNBC world?
It is so sad that CNBC cannot have a intelligent dialogue with anyone that comes on the show. I suggest that all that are serious about the financial markets STOP WATCHING CNBC the GONG should go off for Dennis Kneale.
I WILL NEVER WATCH HIM EVER AGAIN WHAT A LOOSER.
I will follow Zero Hedge.
I can't stand to hear him but i turned it on tonight thinking this might happen, and God, right out of the gate--boom, he launched right into the insults....i thought it was kind of funny though, because any person with a critical eye can see that every word out of his mouth has nothing but an agenda to keep, and he had no interest in hearing what the blogger he had on had to say...
I think he's tuning Japanese, I think he's turning Japanese, I really think so!
Socrates
IMO, Dennis "douchebag" Kneale ranks below the former occupants of the 8PM time slot, Carmen Ulwench, Donnie Deutsch. CNBC may as well go back to reruns in that slot as they did prior to the meltdown. Reruns would be more informative than Kneale. Given the frequent changes in this time slot, it would appear to be where CNBC sends personalities to die. One can hope.
Carmen's not on anymore? She was hot. Bummer.
She might still be on, but not prime time 8PM. I think she is a cow, but to each their own.
If he is so f. righteous I dare him (Dennis) to index his CNBC compensation to the number of correct market calls. Let's say to get 100% of what he is getting, he has to be 60% right. In order to get 80% of his compensation, he 'll have to make 40% correct calls. And all of the excess money will go to charity of his choice.
Even better, let's have zero hedge readers vs. Dennis bet, it could be a minimum amount but whoever loses has to go on the record by saying, I have been f, wrong, etc.
Anyway, neat little article on RE:
http://exiledonline.com/depression-porn-gaming-the-real-estate-market/
Funny, he talks about hiding behind anonymity, while he hides behind an obviously overwhelming playing field advantage on CNBC (based on the interview with Mike). Meeting on neutral ground for a respectful and fair battle of intellect, until it ends naturally, is a wonderful response. Then everyone would get get to see if he can support the stuff he claims in the cozy CNBC studio...
Ok. Marla is kind of hot in print.
p.s.
"consumer income is up a bit too" , what and how exactly a bit compares to historical average Dennis? Dude, you ve got to learn how to manipulate data better than that, just take an econometric course for a chance.
p.s.s. Isn't the recession over when we have two consequent quarters of positive economic growth? For the sake of argument, you ve got to have the last GDP number to be positive to claim, it's over. Of cause if Dennis comes from the Chinese Politbureau statistical school, his claim is absolutely valid. (or else.)
Honestly? That is one of the most ridiculous and unprofessional requests I have seen. Did this really air on national television? Someone got their fefe's hurt. The problem with trying to relate to CNBC's soap opera of market analysis is it pulls you down to the t-ball playing field...best to stick with the major league fight.
Dennis Kneale and CNBC, you just got owned.
Did you really think ZH would go down without a fight?
While this is all good for a great laugh, what is not a laughing matter is that CNBC and Dennis Kneale are responsible for individual investors losing millions, if not billions of dollars.
I am surprised after Cramer was deconstructed by Stewart, that CNBC is willing to let you hang yourself out to dry, but then again, maybe I'm not, as it would be convenient for you to be the idiot foil of CNBC...the scapegoat, if you will. No one likes you anyway. No great loss, right?
Dennis, why don't we go through all of your previous bits over the past year and look at all of the calls you made that were dead wrong. And then lets think about the people who may have acted, or not acted, based on your entertaining bits. That is all you are, an entertainer. The problem with that is that most entertainers do not cause the wholesale destruction of personal wealth as a consequence of being entertained by them.
Finally, I have a blog, and I'm not anonymous. Trust me, neither Kneale nor CNBC wants my blog to host all of Kneale's fantasy reporting which has been somehow passed off as financial journalism.
I think we need to use 'pwned' more often.
Anytime program trading hits, say, 40% of NYSE volume, the NYSE was, by definition, pwned. If we're sticking our necks out, even if the NYSE stops reporting member firm volume, whenever NYSE PT volume hits 40%, we can say, by definition, Goldman pwned the NYSE.
Goldman will hate it, it'll be true, and we get to flex our post-modern parlance -- what's not to love?
Done. I used owned as I was worried Kneale may not get it.
Sorry Mr. Kneale, nothing personal against your salesmanship skills, but I am saving up for the Truth and am therefore at a loss for the resources to squander on the hype...err hope you are selling.
This is really all that needs to be said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IONyLZn0pLI
I wonder if The Daily Show writers saw that clip from Kneale. One can hope.
I F'N LOVE YOU!!! TD, I came across your blog by happenstance through twitter, and always, ALWAYS check in on your posts first thing in the morning. I'm not big in the market, or finance, but everything that I read (what is SPY anyways?) makes abso-f'kn-lute sense! And I have no idea what the SEC just did that won't allow you to see what GS is up to, but it just proves that you're really onto something and they need to demonize you least the masses begin to see through the "veil".
Keep up the excellent work!
publius
Actually, anon, your reaction is one that's growing more and more common among non-financial types I know. Let's admit, there aren't that many people in this world conversant with the somewhat arcane financial topics at issue here at Zero Hedge. But people do sense when they are getting screwed. And more and more people are starting to realize that not only are they getting screwed, they're getting ass-raped with no lube whatsoever.
My brother is one of them. Here's a quote from one of his recent emails to me:
"I don't know what the hell is going on with that financial crap you're going on about, but I just know there's something going on that is going to piss me off when I find out about it. And so I get even more pissed off right now. And people who are really pissed off and don't know why do some crazy things..."
You know what, that's the thing: I just can't pay my Chase card at the end of every month with a straight face. Let's see you get 0% (nearly) interest rates from Barry B and co; you get capitalized gratis via taxpayers; then you pump dump your own stock price over and over; then, you still won't lend to these people or help renegotiate (for the most part) their shitty ass loans in Nevada or whatever. J Dimon can come to my house for Pastis, and we will talk it out with my associates: Raekwon, Ghost, and Bobby D.
Dennis who???
Okay, but if you go on his show later, you have to start out with the following now-immortal line:
"I have no idea Dennis…I'm going to talk to you like a child…if you understand what I'm saying, just say 'yeah.' "
LOL Jeff Macky saw this coming and bailed. Smart man. But I must say, Macky seemed to be tripping on something the day he said that.
Tyler, we're talking Dennis Kneale here.
It's not like we're talking about someone that's remotely in your league.
For someone like this human assclown, you can just ask him if Elvis Costello knows he raided his closet and stole his hairstyle and glasses, and tell him to have a nice day.
I don't understand what you're breaking a sweat for.
;)
"The mass-man, ignorant of [the State's] history, regards its character and intentions as social rather than anti-social and in that faith he is willing to put at its disposal an indefinite credit of knavery, mendacity and chicane, upon which its administrators may draw at will. Instead of looking upon the State's progressive absorption of social power with the repugnance and resentment that he would naturally feel towards the activities of a professional-criminal organization, he tends rather to encourage and glorify it, in the belief that he is somehow identified with the State, and that therefore, in consenting to its indefinite aggrandizement, he consents to something in which he has a share — he is pro tanto, aggrandizing himself."
-- Albert Jay Nock
RE Anonymity:
Don't forget the massive legal resources CNBC would martial at his defense should anyone sue him for calling someone a "dickweed" on national television. The fourth estate continues to look down their noses at anonymous bloggers while snuggling in the bosoms of their legal departments.
If CNBC was doing their job, bloggers would be out of business the next day.
I am the site owner who let his blogger go on his show. I think, for the 15 sec of air time, he did great. Next time, maybe. Lots of respect to ZH.
Tyler, having been reading you since your second or third week posting, I really can't believe that this is happening.
They think you''re a threat! Holy fucking horseshit! You're a threat! This has got to be one of the most interesting things I've seen unfold in my short 36 years. One day you're ringleader to a band of antisocial, Catcher In The Rye quoting conspiracy theorists, and the next day a brainless mass media toadie wants you on his show!
You can't make this stuff up.
Don't you dare enter the lion's den on their terms. Never. No matter how awesome you are, no matter how smart, no matter how accurate your facts, no matter how many of them you have, no matter how right you are, if they want you to look like a moronic cretin, they will find a way to do it, and do it successfully. You can only lose, never win. The line 'It's a great opportunity for Tyler to promote his blog and Zero Hedge' is a DEAD GIVEAWAY. Don't ever meet them on their terriroty or their terms. It will never end well.
It seems like you are more clever than most when it comes to this. Most bloggers would take the risk. Your gambit was good. He plugged the blog anyway. Keep it up, and Fuck Dennis Kneale!
Amen, brother.
Excellent reply Tyler keep up the good work.
CNBC = last year's fish & chip wrapper.
Oh, and Marla -- you write like a minx! Maybe it's just me but watching you toy with Kneale's cabin boy was something of a turn on. Maybe it's the $1 dress, I don't know.
Why are you wearing a $1 dress?
It's a bridesmaid's dress. Someone loved it intensely for one day, and then tossed it. Like a Christmas tree. So special. Then, bam, it's on the side of the road. Tinsel still clinging to it. Like a sex crime victim. Underwear inside out. Bound with electrical tape.
ok, now that is worse than vile...pls
Okay, last straw:
Not that I'm in control or anything, but in my opinion, you people are not allowed to post another word here until you actually familiarize yourselves with Fight Club. If you think you get what this blog is on about and have never seen the movie or read the book, then the names Tyler Durden, Marla Singer, Cornelius, Travis, Robert Paulson, etc, mean nothing to you, and though you know why it's important, you're missing out on the very thing that makes this so much goddamned fun.
Did I need to say this, or is this written up somewhere?
OK, sorry FB, but it's been a while, and i do admit, a few parts were just hard for me to watch...and i am glad you were playing the role....
Hey no problem. I didn't think anyone would miss the reference. (Now I'm beginning to wonder if Marla herself missed the reference). I agree, though, if I wasn't just parroting a movie line, I would be an asshole.
Oh, I got it. I just wasn't sure how to respond to the image of an apparently male reader wearing a $1 bridesmaid's dress bought at a thrift store.
Perhaps it should be posted somewhere! In any case, I completely agree. Watch the dang movie, folks.
PS Don't forget that it's allegory!
...the perfect allegory for what all US citizens need in order to affect changes necessary to protect our republic....
_
I agree it's vile, but those exact words were said by Marla Singer in the movie 'Fight Club' when she was talking about her $1 dress.
thank you fb for helping me, agrotera pollyanna.
"You can only lose, never win. The line 'It's a great opportunity for Tyler to promote his blog and Zero Hedge' is a DEAD GIVEAWAY. Don't ever meet them on their terriroty or their terms. It will never end well."
I have to second that emotion. I've been interviewed several times by my local media, and for the most part they seem insulted that I refuse to reveal myself. They just can't believe I'm not interested in fame.
There's no reason to go on their show, and you probably have a bigger audience than he does anyway.
CNBC has no function but to cheerlead for the administration. After all, if the current administration had not pulled GE's chestnuts out of the fire, where would GE be now? They were always ridiculously bullish because of their on air interviews with sell side people, but they now sold out to the "Gangster Government."
CNBC is conflicted due to their ownership by GE. Bottom line. End of story. People should not trust the message from such companies.
These fuckers. No concern or mention of the corruption, the fraud, the manipulation. The "market" (as opposed to a market) is a fiction now. End to end, manipulation.
There will be a second leg down. Probably soon. This little balding bitch can eat his words then.
Why oh why do you even engage with a CNBC talking head?
What a waste of time.
There are many other minds with actual & honest ideas out there, let's find them.
Or is it that you just feel sorry for Dennis Kneale, trapped in his ignorance?
Seriously, drop this deadbeat.
They are going to come after you with everything they got TD, the more you expose their worthless entertainment show they call financial reporting. Hey Kneale, Cramer, and Kudlow: cheerleading does not equal reporting. If CNBS gave us real and true relevant facts then the blogs wouldn't get the traffic they do. I say do a phone interview with the d-weed when you get back just to get more traffic to your site and let more people know what the truth is. Keep up the great work ZH team.
Wait... I am confused? I thought Dennis was trying to disprove, not support the case, that he's an idiot?
Also, I am really glad Dennis quoted the comment about the 300 lb woman in the thong bikini. That was my favorite comment too.
TD, keep up the good work and don't waste your time with dickweeds like Kneale.
Well done!
What is this CNBC you speak of? Some form of media outlet? I never turn the crap on at all.
second fischerblack -- their medium is not conducive to a reasoned analysis or substantial conversation. they can't even manage to get it done when they give becky quick an hour with warren buffett, resorting instead to 120 consecutive 30-second soundbites. attempts to pound the square peg into the round hole will end in frustration. ultimately, the only reason to appear on CNBC is to sell yourself, and within their framework you can only do that with their complicity.
what's more, there's no reason to engage a twit like kneale or any of his ilk. the narrative arrow of the network cannot be changed without undermining its purpose; and the kind of people who are actually listening to kneale are both beyond remediation and undeserving of it. so what purpose does engaging him serve? to assuage the ego?
fwiw, td, what your readers now have to try to discern is whether kneale and CNBC have engaged you because they are just twits looking to preen the feathers of a dying peacock -- or because they were directed to address a perceived threat to the narrative that opened the window of capital raising through equity dilution. again i agree with fischerblack -- this is by far the more intriguing aspect of this little episode.
Good you didn't go on. He would have just jerked you around a little and then cut you off.
Zero Hedge should not even acknowledge Dennis.
If Zero Hedge did respond to CNBC's request, I would no longer view this website.
I enjoy the anonymity, and I hope it would be preserved.
-marla ( Not to be confused with Marla Singer)
I agree. Do not address their attempts at communication. Don't let them take you down to their level. Stay independent and relevant.
Please.
I have a feeling that Green Shoot futures will be trading down lock limit real soon much like Corn did today.
What was the last story that Dennis the pennis broke? Last I checked Mr. Durden is the one breaking stories, filing FOIA requests, and providing a warm safe place for those with incriminating info and a conscience.
I've watched a lot of CNBC in my day (gag) and he adds nothing beyond the goofy devil's advocate to someone who actually did their homework.
Does Dennis consider himself a journalist or a commentator?
I just added the above CNBC as a link to the Wikipedia entry for "jumping the shark".
Here's one of my favorite Kneale videos:
http://www.businessinsider.com/jeff-macke-goes-nuts-on-dennis-kneale-cli...
Nod if you're with me?
I had a feeling that Macke would be leaving for awhile, I stopped watching CNBC earlier in the month because quite plainly except for Santilli's credit market updates and Art Cashin, there's nothing useful on it. But that interview.... priceless!
I remember this. Macke semmed to be having a legitimate psychotic episode. I don't know enough to diagnose it, but it didn't look anything like drugs or substance abuse. The whole thing made me cringe.
Wow I come home this evening from a town hall meeting with Sam Graves to see that Dennis the squeal had walked into the place where I can read non-fiction from numerous intelligent folks and crap on my ZH--aw hell what do you expect from someone as a child whose only special treat was to be had by burying his index finger up to the knuckle for that juicy morsel-well you know the rest of it.
on with the show.
I think that the most interesting point out of all of this is that Tyler is going to Europe...
I've been pretty bearish on that continent for a long time (negative birth rates, etc, etc. - and have intimate knowledge of how people are there, and as virtually everyone knows, they are quite different).
Looking forward to reading about the mission.
Kneale, Kudlow...Come on...No need to waste your time on the pom pom gang.
Very proud of the retort, Tyler. You know the game and how not to become a pawn of it.
I like Dennis K. and was glad when CNBC put him on. At last a journalist who's cut his chops. Like Charlie.
Unfortunately, by watching Dennis, I soon realized that given the same set of facts/data, some people come to the most unlikely conclusions. Such is Dennis.
I feel bad for the guy though. A producer screaming in your ear telling you you have 10 seconds. Weekly management meetings where you are told you are not engaging enough or controversial enough. You need to be an actor. His job is show biz and he is getting the heat. But he made the faustian leap. Higher pay, celebrity...hope it was worth it Dennis. It is apparent to me it was not...but this is just another facts/data disagreement.
Great comments TD. I love ZH because of your anonymity, that you are infamous rather than famous. The content determines the appeal of the site. Revealing your ID will change the game , fight for your privacy .
why the fuck would I watch C-N-Bullshit when I can get fACTUAL information from ZH, KD, UBT, etc.? I might throw on Bloomie solely for the crawl, but sweet jesus on the cross do the blathering, empty-headed LYING FUCKS piss me off, which leads to chest pain and stabby-ness.
Anyone who derives financial advice of ANY KIND from the likes of paid corporate SHILLS a la Cramer, this Dennis asshat, or any of the other innumerable douches incessantly flapping their saggy yappers across the entire MSM spectrum would be well served by quickly developing a palate for the finer nuances of ramen and subscribe to "Decorate This Refrigerator Box Monthly".
if you are the wallstreepro, you are a hero around here...
When I think of it, I doubt mentioning by Dennis of this website has much to do with his critique by TD. My bet would be regression analysis of the GM dealerships by Marla or reference to GE outstanding and breathtaking exposure to the Easter Europe has more to do with ZH being mentioned on the CNBC. That's why they invited the other guy and minimized his credibility as much as they could while mentioning ZH. If someone who did show up is that insignificant than someone who didn't...
Back in 90's in Russia former KGB rivals used the same strategy, to discredit their opponents on TV. Those were called, political kills.
Anyway, guys were can we find transcripts of Dennis CNBC shows, so we could take it apart and highlight how "ingenious" this guy is?
p.s. Here
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?play=1&video=1169061117
Dennis goes on saying: "Try selling a hope." ; I always though hope is something you bring and not sell. WTF would you sell a hope? We all know who excel in selling hope - Mr Maddof did!
Nothing sells like controversy . . . of course, CNBC recognizes a competitor when it sees one, and they can't like you too much, Tyler! And if they have to lie, hey, we know full well that they have no problem with that.
Nice of them to direct traffic here so that even more people can see what you're about and what you have to say.
It will increase readership. A lot of smart people have no other frame of reference by which to judge the shameless prostitution and bafoonery that is CNBC. Let them come here to see the good stuff and many will recognize.
Thanks, Dennis! What a buncha geniuses over there!
Dennis Kneale came across as an exceptionally obknoxious moron, as always. Invite him to engage in substantive dialogue here - guaranteed hilarity. It really is astounding how every single thing that comes out of his mouth is idiotic and just appalling.
fuck this guy, not worth your time, let him troll your blog and get a real education. No sense in a professional arguing with a student.
BREAKING NEWS:
CNBC, First In Worldwide, goes mainline injecting "dickweed" blogger agents into the mainstream media stream of disinformation.
Dong Show host Dennis Kneale characterized the financial blogger community as cowards hiding in their Mama's basement exercising their prerogative to communicate freely.
Several leaders in the financial blogger community declined to make an appearance on the Dong Show for reasons not disclosed by CNBC.
Marla Singer of Zero Hedge extended an invitation for Mr. Dennis Kneale to appear on Zero Hedge Media.
Had to go to the old site to view the Dennis clip, but that shit was FUNNY to me!
He comes on with a ticker/placard cuing the viewer to his theme: "Dennis Sells Hope".
Then comes another one after he's trashed the dark, sick, cowardly world of bloggers . . . "Dennis: Bloggers Lack Hope."
Guess that about sums it up, doesn't it?
If he were fighting for the truth against the world's most powerful liars instead of selling whatever he's paid to sell for them, perhaps he'd understand the anonymity thingy.
Sounded like the thong thing really hurt his feelings. Ouchy! Perhaps if he came on wearing one the whole misunderstanding could be cleared up . . . as long as Cramer didn't object to the infringement.
Glad to hear you're "getting out of your mother's basement" for the trip, Tyler. Too bad you won't be able to take the Bloomberg Terminal with you (or will ya?)
Great response to his BS, man.
I can see more of this coming from the MSM--it comes with the territory. Can't wait to actually SEE their sweat with my eyes, rather than by inference!
The games have begun. The emini pumping has started early. The Nikkei broke 10k. AIG doesn't have enough in revenue or value to pay the USG back. Green shoots looking more like a movement after drinking a Shamrock shake.
I haven't watched CNBC in years once I realized they don't tell the whole story.
"That was hope and fortitude you digital dickweed"
yeah - cause that's all you need to do Dennis - hope your way out of the big pile of shit. THAT is patriotic. /sarcasm
I can't shake the image of you doing a phone interview with Dennis using a voice altering box... love it.
"also, is Tyler his real name? or a pseudonym?" classic. sounds like CNBC is really on the ball!
DK,
I'm waiting for your answer to the "Marginal Productivity of Debt" question.
Sincerely,
The Arbitrageur
Just in case you missed it DK, here it is:
Why don't you show some fortitude and spend a program addressing one question of mine, which happens to be my favorite subject regarding macroeconomics: HOW is this country going to overcome the negative Marginal Productivity of Debt? I'll give you a little help - it was a rhetorical question - please fill in the blank provided ____________________________________________
Sincerely,
The Arbitrageur
What surprises me is how CNBC and all Wall Street is silently watching / reading financial blogs. I used to work on a large trading floor at one of the major firms back in 2006 and most prominent traders were already reading in secret blogs like CR . Tyler (and all financial bloggers), you have way more influence than you may know. Rock on guys. Keep the truth coming out.
I'm glad you didnt stoop down to their level.
This is great however it should not stop with kneale - liesman, cramer, kudlow ratigan (even though he is gone), and anyone who allows ariana huffington on squawk box in the morning - should all hear from 0H.
I like folks like Dennis, once they've dug the hole and jumped in all you have to do is get the backhoe and cover'em up.
This site needs a virtual punching bag.
A place where the face if not a full body of the likes of DK or anyone else that deserves it can can be flogged as if they were the opponent in a scene from the movie whose name shall not be spoken.
I dunno. Lost opportunity - shoulda taken it if you could have. He did offer to let you tear him a new one, in front of his audience. At least he mentioned the name, which raises awareness outside of the usual readership.
I would have loved to have heard that debate :)
One should ask Dennis the important question why we should belive him, or his like, the recession is over, when he never even saw it coming. In fact, I'm sure he laughed at people like Peter Schiff who were constantly warning of the disasters ahead.
There is honor in anonymity. Keep up the good fight
Would love to see this happen but the guy will never show without the cloak of protection CNBC gives him.
Is Vince McMahon running this network with Mark Haines filling in for Jerry Lawler ('Show me the puppies!')? ZH to be Kurt Angle - athlete turned heel? I'm only buying the pay-per-view MarketMania-XXV if it has the Santelli elbow in a L2 ladder match against King Dollar and a squawkin box oil match between Double-C and passive-aggro Julie. (Maybe Ozzie beauty queen and Erin BURNette for tag team?) If 'green shoots' is replaced by 'WOOOOO!' we'll know it's time to crack back a cold Steveweiser with wallstreetpro2. Now that's who DK should have called. Bernanke 3:16 says I just whooped your deflation!
FWIW, the CNBS market cheerleader does a good job attacking his attackers using stereotypical forum language in his intro. DK does an even better job exploiting his home court advantage by pulling the plug on his guest at 5:37, saying "the producers have just pulled the plug. you've got no specifics, you've got no facts." Brilliant move.
Though noticeably nervous, Mike was doing an 'OK' job in making his case that DK's stats are influenced by seasonal trends in home purchases. Under other circumstances, this would be a smart opener (correlation & causation). Unfortunately, taking the long road to explain DK's flawed/biased macroeconomic interpretations will not work in the infoblurb format. This will not be the last time that the blogosphere will be invited into the polluted mass media realm for debate. It is extremely worthwhile to coordinate a better strategy for articulating an informed viewpoint boldly, succinctly, and directly. Basically, rip out their fucking throats.
0H made the right call not appearing here regardless of the weak "busy day" story they countered with. Be prepared...
Well done, TD.
Tyler, can you go on Knealy's show in one of those Mexican wrestler masks, you know Lucha Libre?
I think anyone commenting on those shows should show up in one. Oh how I hate the preening of those normally invited on.
I don't think people like Dennis Kneale care one bit about how the economy fares and whether it rebounds or not. I believe he made the "recession is over" call to generate exactly the kind of controversy that it has done. It’s a ratings numbers game for him (and Cramer and many others for that matter) and not about being right or wrong. The vast majority of collective public memory is too short to ever remember something like this as new “breaking stories” (potentially seriously hyped or entirely manufactured) keep popping up. And even if he’s “exposed” and this gets publicly raised a few months later, he’ll come out with an apology and admit that he made an honest mistake based on the “faulty” data and would be exonerated. Why shouldn’t it work, the list of people who’ve done this and been successful in the last few years is long and illustrious (Cramer being the prime example on CNBS of being consistently wrong yet successful), no? I may be a novice but to me it seems like this is how the media (esp. TV) game is played. So, having a constructive discussion or an argument with someone like Dennis Kneale would end up the way Mike did on his show.
heh Zerohedge,
just stay smart. don't do the interview telephone or otherwise cos you'll be setup. Best you can do is host your blog in another country fight him online where he can't stop you or edit your interview etc.
love reading your stuff.
thanks
regards
jb
Being a CNBC commentator is his job and he's probably more of an actor than an analyst.
I'm pretty confident that from day 1, he's been told what to say or what market position to take. Or, maybe he has figured out that being a happy happy joy joy bull market hopeful is his only shot at keeping a on-air slot.
To me, looks like he is modeling himself after a cheerful version of Bill O'Reilly, where he says ridiculous things and people love him for it.
After all, O'Reilly says some pretty breathtakingly stupid things, but his ratings are great. Controversy definitely sells and DK knows it. DK also probably knows that he would get eviscerated in a real debate, thus the avoidance.
Bill O'Reilly is exactly the person I had in mind when I saw that clip. He's probably the mainstream pioneer of this kind of outrageous and disrespectful behavior for the sake of controversy and ratings.
The problem with humoring an idiot is that someone might mistake you for one as well. All responses need to be less than 10sec or on a broadcast precondition that there will be no microphone cuts or interruptions. CNBC (the shill network) will not allow enough time to voice your response. Even within the selected guest voices on Kneale's ridiculous "Recession's Over" clip. I felt his guest were having a difficult time with his optical sphincter impairment depriving oxygenated blood flow to his brain. I thought it was funny, but would have been better to see it on SNL, MAD TV, Daily Show or Colbert. Being on a network billing itself as news evidences what a buttclown he is. CNBC should have a disclaimer that this is only entertainment as they try to keep the party balloon from hitting the ground and should hire pundits that would at least know what $VIX was before they were on the air.
Obviously little left to be said after hundreds of comments:
One thing you gotta understand: DK's entire function on CNBC is to agitate and inflame (major victory if he becomes the talk of ZH {for him and CNBC staff}). For one thing, they are in major danger of losing market share (just like the newspapers) to information sources that actually say something of relevance, because even Joe Six Pack is throwing up from overdosing on informational junk food. So, one thing they want is a greater share of our demographic because they are underweight on it. So fuck em, first rule I would propose is never mention his name, or CNBC again, otherwise, they are building a link with ZH and will convey to their audience that they have some kind of link to underground i.e. real world, and they don't. Again, fuck em. Should have made a better product and dude should have stuck to doing the weather in San Pedro.
I guarantee you they have an intern scanning this blog every day just looking for shit they can use. These personalities (although they look so average joe) are carefully honed by producers who focus group Joe Sixpacks ad nauseum asking them what they want a newscaster (being generous) to look, act, sound like. He has to be just slightly smarter than the dumbest and way dumber than the smartest. Non masculine, a-sexual, non threatening, and HAS to wear glasses (or have grey hair i.e. dude from CNN) for intellectual cred. All these guys are are dudes that tried to be Jack Black or Will Ferell and failed. That's it. That's how much they care about economics or the integrity of their reporting. l8r....
Oh one last thing TD, you did take the high-ground, which considering, took a lot of restraint. Way to represent the neighborhood. That must drive them up the wall. Barney Frank could learn a thing or two from that.
I sincerely hope Mr. Kneale is supremely grateful for his captive audience of unquestioning sheeple because without their mass ignorance he would have no forum in which to ply his trade.
Unfortunately, it's all too clear that CNBC's business model is to prey on the ignorance of its consumers. I don't doubt it's at least somewhat profitable in the short term, but at what ultimate cost? The job of any true knowledge worker, such as an analyst or journalist (terms which are used rather loosely when referring to Kneale's ilk), is to reform the ignorance of his consumer. Sadly Kneale has succumbed to one of the major pitfalls of our society's misguided idolization of celebrity by focusing his energy more on himself than the information his consumers deserve.
His criticism of anonymity is an obvious canard that fails to acknowledge the virtue inherent in the selfless dissemination of information and analysis.
Good work TD. I've no doubt you will govern yourself appropriately, even while folks like Kneale flop all over themselves working up a lather to sell a couple more ads.
"Digital Dickweed"
Hmm..
Might make a good t-shirt.
Dude,
Do NOT climb into CNBC's own mud-pit with them. When you talk about "dissecting [Kneale's] 'thesis' point-by-point" you're betraying a naive lack of cynicism. That ain't going to happen. First, it ain't good TV so they won't let it happen. Lots of screaming and interruptions. Second, Kneale doesn't HAVE a "thesis" per se. You'll notice that none of the CNBC folks build models in their heads consistent with all the "data" they spout. They just throw some data to guests, as if they were throwing a piece of meat to hungry dogs, and hope against hope that they'll fight over it for entertainment. Most of the guests have something to gain, either talking their book or building reputations ("...has appeared on CNBC...") with dumb money. Zero Hedge won't benefit a whit from trying to argue with those idiots. Go ahead and sell out if you want, it's your right, but just wait until you've got a readership big enough to really monetize.
Don’t take the bait, skip it. Obviously you’re doing something right. And when one does something right on wall street everyone takes notice humm.
Cool. Free Air-time on CNBC for ZH. Others pay for such advertisement.
congratulations, that's a good way to reach more people.
Are Dennis and the guy from "What the Buck?" siblings?
Maybe? http://www.youtube.com/user/WHATTHEBUCKSHOW
I hold Kneale and Carmen Electra in the same esteem.
There is no reason to go on Dennis's home court and deal with unfair advantages unless they agree to your fair terms of engagement. The truth will come out in time, and he will either get it, or be sunk by his juvenile ego.
Just keep doing your thing.
As many have stated it's a known fact CNBC had meeting earlier in the year where the order came down from on high to quit expressing negative opinions of administrative actions. Independent of that, Dennis Kneale's monologue reflects the type of exuberant ignorance I remember seeing in the Iraq war coverage on Fox News.
This is a "balance sheet" recession David. People don't spend money on things they can't afford, with money they don't have, when they are afraid of losing their job. Your idiotic attempt to take some minor one-off statistically irrelevant "improvement" in some economic figures and extrapolating that into a recovery deserves laughter.
Ps. This may be the best thing that could have happened to the retail investor in America. Perhaps they'll start with Zero Hedge and wander onto Minyanville, The Big Picture, Financial Armageddon, etc and get a better picture of WTF is really going on this country and its economy.
Dennis Kneale is an idiot.
what data is he talking about? There you go ,the latest news http://www.cnbc.com/id/31678093
Zero hedge, we support you.
- The Ticker Street
'Cowardly Bloggers' ?
There is nothing more cowardly than misleading the viewers and becoming a state run media.
Dennis Kneale, you are and will always be an ahole.
'Much better than expected'
'Green shoots'
'Case-schiller index stabilizes' - fuck it is down 18%.
Yeah, after the patient has his massive heart attack and stops breathing, he's "stabilizes" too !!
Then what ?
Let's throw a party......idiots !!
CNBC is saying hey…. There not listing to us, there listening to other sources. Oh my gosh were loosing control of the heard, quick call them cowards. The main stream financial media has been leading the public over the cliff one to many times it seems.
I recently wrote a number of friends regarding just this issue. I stated that those who want reform would start getting painted by the media as fringe elements in order to cloud what is truly happening. This is just one part of the first salvo's in this war. In fact what it shows is that you are much more likely to be on the right track. recall how those who outed Bush on the uranium scam with nigeria were treated.
No doubt that Kneale is reading ZH and has been. I would not be surprised if he posts soon, perhaps under the name "I_AM_NOT_DENNIS_KNEALE.
Dennis knows that ZH has the juice while all Dennis gets is juiced on.
I think they are trying to distract you from exposing Goldman Sachs. Goldman hates negative attention.
I posted this before....
Dennis, show me the video clip of when you warning of this disaster and told people to get out of the market above Dow 12000 and I might listen to you !!
Peter Schiff was literally laughed off FOX news when he warned of the housing collaspe in 2006. So Dennis, STFU !!
What the heck is all this discussion about that CNBC guy?
Come one, stop discussing on this most ridiculous TV Programm, the whole world of traders is laughing their a...s of on a daily basis about this TV guys talking about the stock market trying to sound smart.
I dont care what this guy has to say but I hate people who are shouting around, and there are tons of them on CNBC, like Cramer, Kudlovski Koslovski and this Dennis,
People who shout are
first not sure what they say, and often totally wrong.
So I wouldn't even reply to this TV show, instead, send them some stuff from the Daily show, with Jon Stewart, this guy gave CNBC the right kick at the right place.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=220252&title=cnbc-...
I would have 1 Million on my account, if I had listened to CNBC, if I had started with a 100 Millions...
Dennis Kneale's track record is suspect, nothing has changed. Move on. It doesnt matter what evidence is provided, it doesnt matter what happens in the future. This is a low risk high reward maneuver. He is not liable for any wrong or bad call, if that were the case CNBC would be off the air.
However what he can say is if indeed there is an uptick in growth (which would be highly suspect how legitimate considering over $13trillion is being thrown around to support the US's $14Trillion GDP) he can say, "look I said that I am good" , if it fails there is no punishment like horrid returns or loss of job unlike the rest of the world"
In that effect Kneale and most CNBC commentators are merely Weathermen and women.
If anybody is actually listening to them when they didnt even see this whole thing coming nor did they believe how bad it is when it was staring at them in early 2008, nor do they understand the distinguishing factors between this one and every other one since 1930...they deserve what they get.
They are using their limited knowledge of past downturns meaning w/i the last 20 yrs when it seems allowing normal recessionary periods to take place to reallocate capital from non productive to productive was taboo. That is no longer gonna work, there is simply too much capital going to non productive areas, and not enough going to productive or income producing assets to sustain legitimate growth. We will not be able to grow thru financing, because we simply do not have the income or savings to provide a solid base from which to borrow from future earnings. Not to mention those future earnings are being severely impacted by job losses, too much debt & asset deflation (both in the private sector and corporate sector).
Just like subprime was contained, just like housing bottoms have been called over and over, just like equity market bottoms have been called over and over…the adage is while bottoms are still being called we are still quite far away.
In fact as a trader i like seeing what the other side is saying thinking, it shows me where my thesis is right wrong. when i can get a glimpse into the type of spotty research driving the other side of my trade (that we are not out of this recession and all is not green shoots and marshmallows) its an immense advantage. I am neither bull or bear, money is made in the spread between perception and reality. If perception is being painted by those who have a terrible recorded track record, the other side reality becomes easier to see.
What does it tell you that they were all freaking out in March when the market hit 'a' bottom? What doest it tell you now we have CNBC calling for the end to a credit driven recession, because there has been some inventory build? Which by the way is the wrong indicator to look at. What does it tell you they would rather look at consumer confidence rather than hardcore empirical data?
TD,
Keep swinging at these fools!
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