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Deutsche Mark Quotations Restored At German Financial Portal

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Another sign of the imminent return of the Deutsche Mark comes this weekend courtesy of BoersenNEWS.de, one of the largest German stock market portals. Due to popular demand, the portal has reintroduced quotations in DEM, alongside those in EUR: "Due to the ongoing Euro crisis many investors expect the return of the Deutsche Mark. A recent survey, showed that 39% of 1,364 börsennews.de users, would like the good old Deutsche Mark reintroduced. Börsennews.de has responded and will immediately display share prices in Euro and Deutsche Mark." The commentary on this symbolic switch is enough to indicate just how the majority of Germany feels about this issue: "With the symbolic reinstatement of the Deutsche Mark Börsennews.de is not supporting to the abolition of the Euro, however the desire of many citizens for economic security. One thing is clear, the German Mark represented the economically strong and healthy Germany. The Euro represents a cracked economic system, not only throughout the world, in Europe, but above all in Germany." We couldn't have said it better ourselves. Suddenly, Jim Rickards' observation that Germany and Russia could be very well considering a new gold- and oil-backed currency, does not seem all that very ludicrous to us. In fact, should the two countries indeed be in such deliberations (and for their literal recent proximity, look no further than the seating chart in this year's Mayday parade in Moscow), the end of fiat could be approaching much faster than previously expected.

More from BoersenNews.de:

The Euro has been making headlines for months, recently falling under $1.19, a four year low. In comparison, last year the course was over $1.50. So far, only a massive Rescue Package of 750 billion Euros has prevented the Euro crash. Germany contributes the lion's share of 147 billion euros, whereas weak countries such as Spain or Portugal, can at any time, under certain circumstances, opt out of the rescue pact.

The fact that the Euro has brought significant benefits for Europeans, especially the Germans, is undisputable. However, before its introduction, it was clearly regulated, that measures such as the Euro Rescue Package are not permissible. One of the former most ardent Euro advocate, previous head of the Federation of German Industries, Hans OLAF Henkel, recently demanded the abolition of the euro and the reintroduction of the Deutsche Mark. Reason, due to the 750 billion Rescue Package, the euro zone has become a pure capital transfer zone. The head of the leading economic research institute Ifo, Hans Werner Sinn Professor, sees in the Rescue Package incalculable risks for Germany.

With so much criticism of the now established Euro, the fears of many Germans before its introduction are understandable. With the symbolic reinstatement of the Deutsche Mark Börsennews.de is not supporting to the abolition of the Euro, however the desire of many citizens for economic security. One thing is clear, the German Mark represented the economically strong and healthy Germany. The Euro represents a cracked economic system, not only throughout the world, in Europe, but above all in Germany.

 

 

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Sun, 06/13/2010 - 11:27 | 410513 Pimp Juice
Pimp Juice's picture

"a cracked economic system", indeed. The only problem is that the politicians are in control and their little pet experiment with the Euro won't end easily. Bring on the DM!

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 11:50 | 410529 Bob Sponge
Bob Sponge's picture

The original Euro agreement has been broken by the bailout and I can't blame the Germans for wanting out. I agree that TPTB will clutch dearly to their Euro. I wouldn't be surpised to see war which is always a good distraction.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 12:29 | 410563 cossack55
cossack55's picture

The surest sign would be the re-renaming of Volgograd to Stalingrad.

Second sign would be re-re-renaming the Deutsch Mark the Reich Mark.

What then, pray tell, would all my 1923 100 billion RM bills be worth?

 

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 13:40 | 410647 A_MacLaren
A_MacLaren's picture

Squat, as any Reich Mark would be a New Reich Mark, not the old Reich Mark

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 16:26 | 410857 TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

The 4th Reich Mark? :)

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 11:28 | 410514 mikla
mikla's picture

Abandoning a currency is unthinkable until you understand there are alternatives.

Quoting and discussing the DEM make it easier for Europeans to understand there are alternatives to the Euro (especially for the Germans).

We are merely waiting for time to go by, for people to get used to the idea.  The Euro is already dead.

Similar discussions will happen in the US with regards to the dollar.  It will take some time.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 15:03 | 410719 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

paradigms take a long time to shatter, but they all do eventually.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 11:30 | 410515 Moonrajah
Moonrajah's picture

Although ze germanz look more sensible, in an upside world this can actually hamper you. With the disintegration of the Euro the US Dollar will be doomed to stay the reserve currency. The Euro with all it's flaws at least had enough of a base to play second fiddle to USD, the DEM - it's just another currency, is all. So they'll be healthier, but due to a smaller base they will be just more easy to manipulate on the FX front, at least in the short and mid-term.

And after the Euro disintegrates the USD will go all De Niro on the rest of the kids in the schoolyard:

You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? Well I'm the only one here.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 11:39 | 410523 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

From Joe Dirt (2001)
Clem: [talking to fire extinguisher] You're talking to me all wrong... It's the wrong tone. You do it again and I'll stab you in the face with a soldering iron.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 11:35 | 410520 seventree
seventree's picture

With the violation of agreements under which the Euro was established, one could argue that it no longer has a mandate to exist. All that remains is for this situation to be formally recognized.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 11:37 | 410521 russki standart
russki standart's picture

Wow! Tyler you have made my day! The Germans are finally waking up to the Euro Scam, the subjugation of a great race by an army of Brussells pigmies.

New World Order, We are NOT YOUR SLAVES!

I will celebrate by giving it to a fraulein, shieldmaiden style, good and hard,whilst singing my favorite Song..

Deutschland, Deutschland über alles,
Über alles in der Welt,
Wenn es stets zu Schutz und Trutze
Brüderlich zusammenhält.
Von der Maas bis an die Memel,
Von der Etsch bis an den Belt,
 |: Deutschland, Deutschland über alles,
  Über alles in der Welt! :|

Germany, Germany above all,
Above all in the world,
When, for protection and defence, it always
takes a brotherly stand together.
From the Meuse to the Memel,
From the Adige to the Belt,
 |: Germany, Germany above everything,
  Above everything in the world. :|

Second stanza

Deutsche Frauen, deutsche Treue,
Deutscher Wein und deutscher Sang
Sollen in der Welt behalten
Ihren alten schönen Klang,
Und zu edler Tat begeistern
Unser ganzes Leben lang.
 |: Deutsche Frauen, deutsche Treue,
  Deutscher Wein und deutscher Sang! :|

German women, German loyalty,
German wine and German song
Shall retain in the world
Their old beautiful chime
And inspire us to noble deeds
During all of our life.
 |: German women, German loyalty,
  German wine and German song! :|

Third stanza
(Germany's National Anthem)

Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit
Für das deutsche Vaterland!
Danach lasst uns alle streben
Brüderlich mit Herz und Hand!
Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit
Sind des Glückes Unterpfand;
 |: Blüh' im Glanze dieses Glückes,
  Blühe, deutsches Vaterland. :|

Unity and justice and freedom
For the German fatherland!
For these let us all strive
Brotherly with heart and hand!
Unity and justice and freedom
Are the pledge of fortune;
 |: Flourish in this fortune's blessing,
  Flourish, German fatherland. :|

 

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 11:47 | 410527 kaiten
kaiten's picture

Silly article. If I want to leave, I´m not going to spend hundreds of billions on bailouts. Not to talk about german banks exposure to southern Europe and german industry dependence on eurozone export. Leaving the eurozone would cost Germany multiple times more than trying to fix it. Not gonna happen.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 12:02 | 410539 mikla
mikla's picture

You're assuming there is a "fix" for the Euro.

There is not.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 18:07 | 411123 kaiten
kaiten's picture

Of course, there is. Already underway. 

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 12:09 | 410543 RicardoM from T...
RicardoM from Temecula CA's picture

Germany would be like the Czech Republic, Switzerland and England... trading in the Euro Zone, just using their own currency.

If Germany abandons the Euro, the Euro will go bye, bye in a nanosecond. Just kidding. It would likely be an orderly unwinding (yea, right). Seems to me that he Euro is going to go bye, bye anyway, even if the Germans don't throw 'er under the Beemer; for all the reasons ever stated in Zero Hedge posts. No need to discuss them again.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 12:25 | 410560 Citizen of an I...
Citizen of an IKEA World's picture

A German abandonment of the Euro would not send the Euro bye bye in a nanosecond.

Expect a week or two of first class television entertainment.

 

There will be flying unicorns, but this time they'll be crapping Schadenfreude.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 12:02 | 410534 repo 105
repo 105's picture

This is the type of thing you need to see at a bottom, thanks for posting. Any other news declaring the end of the Euro would be appreciated although a Newsweek cover pretty much was the kiss of death for the shorts anyway. Agree, silly article.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 13:04 | 410601 aurum
aurum's picture

from time to time an endgame does exist and bottoms are in fact black holes...we are witnessing the demise of all fiats not only the euro. it will take time, but i am convinced it (the fiat demise) will happen in the next 20 years, perhaps far sooner than that.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 13:31 | 410634 Lux Fiat
Lux Fiat's picture

This is the type of thing you need to see at a bottom

Yep.  I saw bullish divergences on the the main indices charts Tuesday morning, as well as negative divergences on my bear ETF and UUP charts and decided to sell my related equities and options.  When I brought up ZH and saw how negative the article tone was that morning, I viewed it as that one extra piece of confirmation that at least a short-term trend change was afoot.  Knight's Slope of Hope site is also sometimes a good one for market sentiment "extremes".  When he was essentially throwing in the bear towel, I suspected that a negative trend change was likely close at hand.  It was.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 13:48 | 410654 mikla
mikla's picture

I understand "contrarian", because there is so much "dumb money" out there.

However, your argument is almost entirely anecdotal unsupported assertions.

I'm not negative because I had a bad breakfast, or because it might rain.  Rather, the math is impossible, and there has been no assertion of any kind of plan that addresses key issues (e.g., Greece has no GDP, and will have no GDP in ten years' time.)

If you take slope-of-market for a few days in support of any guess, then I'm similarly amazed at the magical fantasy thinking you employ.

Is there a plan?  No.  Is there a fix?  No.  The math is really quite simple.  The fact that you have faith in the "political economy" after we've hit a mathematical wall (in direct opposition to the "real economy") means you will find yourself hopelessly disappointed.

The debt cannot be serviced.  Done.

However, I understand your situation:  The "political" economy has successfully man-handled the "real" economy for decades.  Unfortunately, the historically accumulated math distortions prohibits that going forward.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 13:54 | 410660 aurum
aurum's picture

a short term bounce is due...perhaps inching toward 125-127..and maybe thats the trade some are referring to...but long term yes, the euro is fucked as is any other fiat.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 14:23 | 410690 repo 105
repo 105's picture

I don't argue fundamentals, the market doesn't reflect fundamentals 100% of the time, it's just an auction. Just too many traders on 1 side of the boat at this given point in time for my taste.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 15:16 | 410737 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

mikla said: "The debt cannot be serviced.  Done."

repo replied: "I don't argue fundamentals"

Do you ever consider fundamentals?  Or is your game all about trading and nothing but?  In other words, does it matter to you that the market you trade is being killed by 1) intervention and 2) short-term trading above all else?  Fundamentals = functioning capital markets, an essential part of a productive capitalist economy.  Trading = casino markets, capital goes into hiding, productivity wanes, hyenas fighting over the corpse, then poof.

How can anyone lend capital into a market whose time horizon is milliseconds?  Those silly fundamentals, I know.  You'd have to be fucking insane to take a company public in this environment.

 

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 14:48 | 410701 Lux Fiat
Lux Fiat's picture

"Thinking about the reward for my excellent sight kept me from considering the distance to the dollar-heap.  I should have walked and not sprinted."  Reminiscences of a Stock Operator

I have been of the opinion for the past 30+ years that the fiscal path of the US is unsustainable.  Europe has been on a similar path.  Cherished thoughts of American exceptionalism (or good old fashioned corruption) seem to blind most politicians and populace alike to a fiscal situation that is farmore akin to Argentina than the that of the world's largest creditor nation on the eve of 1930.  The cynical optimist in me would like to see folks wake up to the oncoming train barrellling down the tracks and start taking unpleasant steps now to mitigate that damage that will be wrought when the virtually inevitable train crash occurs.  However, the realist in me knows that the perennial human disease of short-termism virtually assures that meaningful change will not happen until after the crash.

However, at most historical inflection or transition points, while final resolution could be swift, there was normally a preceding period of extended volatility and chop as competing paths fought it out.  I think that we are in such a period.  Long-term positioning here may seem attractive, but as noted in the quote above, it can also be deleterious to your financial health in the short to intermediate-term.  I am most at home trading in what I perceive to be longer-term macro trends, however, to survive and profit in the chop, I have often had to look to shorter time frames.

I seriously thought about deleting my post before hitting the "save" button, as I feared that the egotistical side of me was perhaps gloating a bit much on the lastest successful zag.  For that I apologize if did go overboard on the celebratory chest-thuming.  However, that does not negate the fact that for those trading on tighter time frames, ZH can be an interesting market sentiment validator, as can other bearishly oriented sights.

There is much that I don't know, but there is much that I do.  If this "dumb money" is employing "magical fantasy thinking", then I hope to keep employing it for some time to come, as it been profitable and usually keeps me on the right side of the market, whether that be up or down (yes, I know, another anecdotal unsupported assertion - deal with it,...or don't).

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 15:24 | 410751 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

I have been of the opinion for the past 30+ years that the fiscal path of the US is unsustainable.

What are you doing about it?

If this "dumb money" is employing "magical fantasy thinking", then I hope to keep employing it for some time to come, as it been profitable and usually keeps me on the right side of the market, whether that be up or down (yes, I know, another anecdotal unsupported assertion - deal with it,...or don't).

Thus speaks one of the hyenas fighting over the corpse (see my above).  After the collapse which you foresaw so long ago happens, do yourself a favor: when people ask you what you did before the crash, don't say "I was a market trader."  People probably won't take kindly to it, and protesting "but I provided vital liquidity" probably won't help your case any.

 

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 18:17 | 411140 kaiten
kaiten's picture

"The debt cannot be serviced.  Done."

 

Who cares about Greece? It´s less than 3% of eurozone´s GDP. Either it gets it house in order or the debt will be restructured in 2 or 3 years. Greek debt is a nonexistent problem. We talk about it because of a contagion risks, not because of the debt itself. Greek debt is a small fish. And other eurozone countries problems are fixable.

 

 

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 15:08 | 410724 rsi1
rsi1's picture

Totally agree, silly article. End of the Euro? ok, it has had a big fall, but we are bearly around purchasing power parity with the US for equivalent salaries, how cand this be a Euro crisis? IT IS NOT! Its a sovereign crisis, but not a currency crisis, or at least not yet a currency crisis, since differently to most other developed countries, EZ countries can not print their way out as easily, otherwise, then it would of course be at least below parity with the USD.

Interesting article, a poll that says that 39% would like the DM, means the majority? Why not say both sides, how many said no to the DM? how many did not respond?

ZH, please have some more critical thinking, this is a way to get to almost the same poor level as general media.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 12:17 | 410553 laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

How can they give a quote for the DM when DMs dont exist and are not in circulation?

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 12:42 | 410576 butchee
butchee's picture

It is a very complex set of equations based upon how many Germans suffer from lumbar pain, and deducing from this the number of old Deutsche Marks they have stuffed under their mattresses.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 13:24 | 410612 knukles
knukles's picture

The Exact same way that any asset is valued.  Equilibrium of Bid and Offer.  Matters not that it does not exist; futures, when issued markets....  Standard financial fare, less engineered than your mom's own CDO.

If "matters not" causes consternation, try extinguishing personal remorse, for the emotion relates exclusively to an unvisitable, non reattainble, yet amenable past.

The price is being determined for the yet to be reintroduced Mark.  The most efficacious price discovery available, set by an open market.

Scary?  Not at all, for it is a harbinger of enhanced freedoms of individuals to choose their own destiny.  Schlotnicks, D-Mark, Dollars (Zimbabawe, Canada or US) or Euros, Your Very Own Personal Choice. 

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 14:46 | 410699 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

+1.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 17:17 | 410998 BumpSkool
BumpSkool's picture

.. anyone need any better reason to own Gold??

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 20:04 | 411335 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Obviously, they're using the DM to EUR conversion rate at around 0,51€/DM

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 12:25 | 410561 Yardfarmer
Yardfarmer's picture

Agreed. As Churchill so perceptively averred "The Germans are either at your feet of at your throats". The silly transports of the curiously named "Russki standart" are all too symptomatic of the misplaced enthusiasms which have long characterized an ongoing collective psychosis masquerading as a nation. Stress tests of German banks conducted by the ECB have revealed mass insolvency with Deutchebank itself at 95/1 derivatives to cash. The image of the stalwart thrifty and industrious German as a bulwark against the rising tide of sovereign debt engulfing the Eurozone is like so much else in their nightmarish national narcissism-a myth.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 13:10 | 410605 russki standart
russki standart's picture

Dear Yardfarmer,

I wrote the above after finishing my breakfast glass of vodka at the beach. Just having some fun....

You are correct. If Germany was to revert to the Deutsche Mark, their banks would implode and the financial system would be destroyed, along with all paper 'savings'. Indeed the global financial system would also implode like Building #7 in NY.  Having said this, the pain would tremendous, but all of us who care to see things as they really are realise the fiat money game is in its last stages. No matter what we do, it will end badly. So, all kidding aside, but we Germans need to decide if they wish to suffer the pain now, or a worse level of pain later. Personally, I hope it ends soon so that we can create a new and better world, by renouncing a broken financial system that benefits only a priviledged few.

FYI, Russki or Russkiy Standart is my favourite Vodka:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/merlijnhoek/2821097195/

 

 

 

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 12:27 | 410565 Lux Fiat
Lux Fiat's picture

Wonder if in a decade or two folks will look back and view Angela Merkel as the economic Winston Churchill of current times.  A person who was ultimately willing to call a spade a spade and act accordingly.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 12:33 | 410571 doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

ominous

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 12:41 | 410578 Bolor
Bolor's picture

Not a silly article. Germany is looking to replace US with Russia as its strategic partner. Germany sees no future in throwing its lot with the sinking titanic, instead they have their eyes on Russia's infinite resources (1/3 of the world's total, everything except rubber roughly speaking) and military know-how (yes, yes, Russia's STILL number one in everything to do with high-energy physics and rocketry). Russia for its part is desperate to see the world move on from the dollar standard and wouldn't mind gold as currency as they've got huge mining resources.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 12:52 | 410591 butchee
butchee's picture

I vaguely remember when the Ukranian NG pipeline was shutdown for some reason (I do not recall if it was political or mechanical) that Putin said something to the effect of "Germany will get energy and everyone else in Europe should get a warm coat."  Cheeky, if you read this, do you remember the quote?  Also how would you view this in historical context?  Does it make more sense for each Russia and Germany to have its own currency but have trade agreements that circumvent the US dollar and are mutually beneficial?

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 12:48 | 410586 Pooh-Bah
Pooh-Bah's picture

This is a wonderful time to be trading.  We know the markets are rigged and we know how they  are rigged.  Reggie and Meredith Whitney have been telling us for months to short GS.  It wouldn't have been a stretch to short GS' sister stock JPM.  Tyler has been all over the euro.  BP has been covered well on ZH also.  Opportunity abounds!

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 12:48 | 410588 frog
frog's picture

uh, Germany has too much to loose in abandonning the euro, yet there are still Germans who are promoting it, nostalgics of the FDR successes, but when Germany can't bail out OPEL and ask for EU founds to make it, one has to wonder of the supposed wealthier Germany, that was/is in the deny of the trivial realities.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 12:55 | 410593 Screwloose
Screwloose's picture

In Spain; the supermarkets have started advertising the prices of their specials in pesetas.

The Euro is alien - like a transplanted organ - and one that's now showing signs of being rejected by its host.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 13:36 | 410639 Dismal Scientist
Dismal Scientist's picture

Am reminded of the Monty Python comment:

STOP PRESS: Nixon's had an ar*ehole transplant

UPDATE: the ar*ehole's rejected him

I won't repeat my thoughts on the Euro, the German posturing over the DM, the terror of the French if the Euro blows up and leaves them at the mercy of the Vaterland ... or the rioting etc that will escalate. Looking forward to a lovely summer

 

 

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 12:57 | 410594 Greed
Greed's picture

Sure, everything is relative, anyhow to say boersennews.de is "one of the biggest german stock market portals" is compeltely overstated. 

The portal is irrelevant. They do not even have a full redaction, only 4 people running the business.

The "reintroduction" is nothing but a cheap pr-gag. Nobody cares about that shit, as nobody even knows the portal. Dont let you fool by nobodys. 

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 13:24 | 410622 Pacifico
Pacifico's picture

Agreed, absolutely irrelevant portal. And 39% of 1,364 users for me is not "the majority of Germans"

Besides, everyone in the German industry is cheering for a low EURUSD, which is fuel for the German export machinery.

The only one, who should be worried at this point is China!

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 19:05 | 411257 John McCloy
John McCloy's picture

I never understood the logic of devaluing a currency for import advantage. It is self defeatist long term. Protect your currency...buy the products with your strong currency anf make quality products.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 20:27 | 411383 Pacifico
Pacifico's picture

If the devaluation effect is strong enough to push prices down, crude, copper, basic metals among others, export-led growth may not be the worst option.

For a single, small country however, this would be fatal. That's why the Swiss are so desperately trying to keep their currency down. Otherwise, their exports would dry off faster than any productivity gains could be achieved.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 13:29 | 410629 merehuman
merehuman's picture

my sister in Germany told me last nite taxes went up 25%.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 16:04 | 410815 desgust
desgust's picture

It's not true yet.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 13:44 | 410649 anarkst
anarkst's picture

I guess the moral of the story is that this was another failed attempt at globalization.  The take home lesson for these folks is that you can not centralize economic control until you have done the same with the political system.  The Soviet experience should have taught them this much.  

At the very least, the globalists have stashed away a few trillion for their next attempt in another fifty years or so. 

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 13:53 | 410659 Howard777
Howard777's picture

The Euro Notes are all marked with the country of origin . So for Germany all Euro Notes have an X at the beginning of the serial number.

France uses letter U.

When the Euro implodes i wonder if EBay will be loaded with people looking to swap Euro currency from say German Euros for French Euros?

Give a new meaning to the word FX Swaps!!!

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 14:00 | 410670 Captain Willard
Captain Willard's picture

Did anyone notice the amazing German machinery orders the other day? Exactly how is a weaker Euro hurting them? And Bund yields are lower than when the crisis started.

Fringe countries are in trouble and many will default. This deflationary influence would exist with or without the Euro. The Euro isn't disappearing.  

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 14:29 | 410691 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

If they stay in the Euro Germany will bail out all the fringe players. That cost is too high.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 15:09 | 410725 bob resurrected
bob resurrected's picture

maybe not. depends on the fringe benefits.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 19:37 | 411304 frog
frog's picture

Germany had/has interest to keep a strong euro and a weak dollar, this is how Germans can buy matters and oil at a lower price for their industry,  indexed on dollar. German industry manufactures high class cars, and heavy industry equipments, that are sold at whatever the price is, while for the other euro countries, a weak dollar is a mere loss in sales for them, because countries that are alined on dollar values won't buy expensive goods from EU countries when they can have them cheaper from China, australia, southern Africa, Chile,, or even from America

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 14:06 | 410676 Donlast
Donlast's picture

Though covered by the Euro community's umbrella, Germany remains THE major Middle European power. It always has been and always will be. It follows that it has a natural power relationship with Russia, again an historical fact. It is also a fact that Germany is not a natural ally of America; and it should be no surprise that it should regard its own currency as a potential long-term rival to the Dollar. The Deutsche Mark is, and was, the hard core of the Euro. If the wayward habits of Club Med cannot corralled, then the DM either stands alone; or the Euro devolves into the core of Germany, France, Belgium, Holland Luxembourg (with Italy???)

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 14:42 | 410697 MonetizeMe
MonetizeMe's picture

Actually, I think Germany is a natural enemy of the US, as the most advanced country on the eurasian landmass. It is a fundamental American interest that Europe remain divided. A German-Russian(-French?) axis, combining German technology with Russian resources and manpower, would be a nightmare scenario. This is precisely why the US intervened in both world wars.

In fact I think we'll see most of the forces currently in Iraq/Afpak drawn down in the next couple of years, some deal made with Iran, Israel hung out to dry, and a much more significant American build up in Romania and Poland to ensure the "balance of power" in eurasia, probably resulting in Cold War II: The Sequel.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 19:09 | 411269 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

If you read Mackinder and the Hearland Principal you will see why the US intervened in both world wars.

If the land mass that stretches from the Atlantic to the Pacific Oceans were to ever be united, that mass would be almost impervious to sea power, and all needed natural resources exist in that huge land mass. Prior to large strategic bombers and nuclear weapons a uniting of this land mass under one government and one economy was to be avoided at all costs from the point of view of Anglo/America.

Here is a brief summation from Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geopolitics

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 14:21 | 410689 Seal
Seal's picture

From: Gisela - I do not understand the market but I do understand that money is an illusion, something we have agreed to use as exchange for goods and services. My grandmother lost her fortune twice and in the end would only invest in gold. She also had a cache of miniature bottles of champagne under her bed. Another good investment. Gisela My friend Gisela’s grandmother was German and lost all her money after WW I and WW II.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 15:45 | 410789 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

This is not far-fetched, secret European planning for the end of the existing euro after a short-term period to take trade advantage of a lower euro, in the months before the eurozone break-up.

Many Germans - and French too, actually - understand that the bailout of the Mediterranean countries would be a wasteful disaster, and that large-scale failure of the existing European bank structure is simply a cost that must be shouldered en route to a 'new' Europe not crushed by debt. Now it is a matter of playing for time just to prepare.

Long ago, de Gaulle foresaw the future of Continental Europe was a French-German-Russian alliance at its core, NOT allied to the USA or UK. It is now getting to be time to implement that vision, cutting loose from that Anglo-global-empire stuff which has sunk the US into a half-fascism about to become the full version.

It is different here in W. Europe in ways that are hard for US people to fathom, because here the common people are not so repressed. They are still able and willing to hit the streets and shut the country down if pushed ... thus the common folk will not be abandoned. We will not descend into the dark pit into which the US is already half-fallen.

Yes, the Germans are getting ready to take a bold lead - it is sheer necessity, however; the feeling that there is only one option which is merely difficult and not disastrous.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 15:56 | 410808 desgust
desgust's picture

I believe it once I see it, until then...

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 16:11 | 410827 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Another typical example of how stuff got blown out of proportions.

Yet the piece of information is clear. 39pc of 1364 people (maybe not even Germans) reclaimed a return to Mark quotations.

But what? this   tiny sample became the whole of Germany or at least a large part of Germans.

Wooooo... People want that much their vision of future to be true that they jump at any  favouring conclusion, even the most ridiculous.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 17:26 | 411021 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Germany has nothing to lose from dumping the Euro.  They lose by keeping it as we are seeing.  They are being robbed. 

Contrarians are also called bagholders.  How much money do you have to lose before you join the ranks of the contarians anyway?  Every time I see someone saying the latest negative article is the sure sign of the bottom or the lastest bullish article is the sure sign of the top I am truely amused.  Lets see.  You read in one article that when you can get something for nothing by reversing the premise of other articles that you don't agree with.  GENIUS!  Stop trying to figure out what the crowd is thinking and start crunching numbers and assessing facts.  Do you know from a magazine cover or an article whether Germany will make the logical choice of leaving the Euro?

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 17:27 | 411027 Gunther
Gunther's picture

If that news item would be the only one it would indeed be meaningless,

but DM quotes show up at supermarket cash registers and so on.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 17:32 | 411040 BumpSkool
BumpSkool's picture

I'll put this in simple terms: A helluva a lot of Germans are highly pissed off that they had to sacrifice the D-Mark, which was strong, powerful and built up with extreme effort on the back of a war-ravaged economy. The Euro was supposed to provide them with de facto spoils of war without the war (like the first Gulf War was supposed to provide America with terms and conditions of Iraqi occupation - without the actual occupation and all its attendent problems). Many a person on the German Bund desk used to tell me..."What two WWs haven't acheived, the Euro will!" ... but like those wars ... the ideal outran the tangibly acheivable.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 18:50 | 411222 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

All I can say is if the Germans go back to the DM those damn restaurant owns better just scratch out the EU and not change any damn numbers.

When Germany went to the Euro prices in restaurants doubled overnight because the restaurants simply crossed out DM and inserted EU.  Big rip off.  Pissed off a lot of people.  (The fixed exchange rates was approximately 1 Eu = 2 DM back then.)

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 20:13 | 411358 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Not the only place.

From what ive heard, Italy and Greece were the hardest affected by that. More precisely, prices of inelastic goods moved higher, whereas wages were 'correctly' translated at the exchange rates so as not to overpay anyone. 

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 19:36 | 411301 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

How are the DM quotes at all relevant if no reasonable rate of exchange exists? Simply taking the rate of the last days in the DMs history isn't reasonable.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 21:08 | 411443 Itsalie
Itsalie's picture

There are 2 good reasons why euro will not go away soon - not only will politicians fight for their pet project as their political lives depend on it, but all the banks are benefiting from it - rent-seeking has moved onto a new level with euro debt issuance - go back to drachma and lira and pesetas and debt issuance would suddenly shrink as foreigners thumb their noses at these "new emerging market" currencies. And of course european exporters would love the euro as the sick man of the G3 currencies replacing the yen and dollar. Going by history, there would be another 5 years of euro weakness to come.

Sun, 06/13/2010 - 22:13 | 411543 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

The biggest problem would be how to actually trade currency - did it ever happened? Merging is a no brainer, but the reverse isn't: residents, expats, foreigners, businesses, tourists, speculators, etc. - which would be traded and which wouldn't - "German" money is scattered across EU and the world, as is other's and original issuance balance between countries doesn't reflects current economy, any more.

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