Did the Fed Economist Slam Bloggers for the Same Reason that Fundamentalist Priests Slammed the Printing Press?

George Washington's picture

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centerline's picture

Angry words from someone who is supposed to have answers, but has none - and whose world is being pulled into the light and exposed as a scam.  Athreya's outlash is both adolescent and desperate.  However, I would argue that psychologically, it speaks of acknowledgement of the situation being dire and the design being fradulent.

JW n FL's picture

The end is near... you are seeing the end come closer every day... It's almost over... It will end soon... the weight of the Baby Boomers can not be lifted by the natural born citizen of the U.S. thusly we need MexiCANS! The Mexicans are coming, the end is near... buy gold and bury your house in a giant dirt mound... Hurry! the end is almost here...

The end is near... the end is near.... and the end is near.... this site has went from information to shock advertising for the Gold Bug Crew!

The end... is not near... you retired idiots will languish just like China... with the monies you hold "O" so dear to your hearts...

De-valuing the cash parked on the sidelines... or debt held...

Never mind... The end is coming! RUN!!!! Godzilla!!!

AAA's picture

"I argue that neither non-economist bloggers, nor economists who portray economics —especially macroeconomic policy— as a simple enterprise with clear conclusions, are likely to contibute any insight to discussion of economics and, as a result, should be ignored by an open-minded lay public."

I bet friend Kartik never watched porn on the internet

" I argue that neither video, nor pictures which portray women in skimpy clothes —especially the good looking ones— as a simple pleasure with clear conclusions, are likely to contibute any 'in-sight' to internet users and, as a result, should be ignored by an open-minded lay public, wanting to get laid".

nathan1234's picture

Apparently Dr Karthik Athreya comes from a background where only certificates and awards decide who the players are.

His knowledge is severely limited. One can well understand the qualifications needed to be a member of the Fed or it's advisor/consultant when one sees Greenspan and Bernanke spouting out crap and lies.

The Fed and its accomplices are failed economists as one can plainly see what is really happening

Pondmaster's picture

"But the advent of the printing press led people to take a closer look at the actual content of [fundamentalist version of] religion and it has been revealed not as a complex and sophisticated system but as a mish-mash of half-baked myths and legends often in contradiction with itself and used to enrich the church ...."


Call the shot . It was Catholicism that made the truth of the word hocus pocus , not religion . It was the Reformers who drove the charge to put the truth in laymans language instead of archaic Latin . This brought us out of the dark ages of world history. By leaving the call of truth ( actually a lie) to the elite of financial religion again , we are ensured of an entry anew into a deeper darker age. 

But the light of the true word shines out in the darkness . Babylon ( the current financial system) - "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins ,, so that you will not receive any of her plagues; {5} for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes..Rev 18:4-5



tony bonn's picture

the establishment economics cabal is made up of a bunch of witch doctors and shamans....the hocus pocus incantations that they gurgle are no more intelligent than the spells endora cast upon daren.

bernanke and sycophants were babbling about healthy economy, the mortgage crisis is a contained non-event, and we didn't see it coming. they are arrogant assholes bamboozling americans into imbecilic stupor - and it's a planned con game.

bernanke should be in a grave. the man is evil.

farmboy's picture

If so why do I never then meet a rich professor? Anyhow there is a marked difference between intelligence and wisdom and the last one prevails in financials markets. Part of that is also to know what you don't know and economics is not a real "hard"science. It is pathetic and illustrates very well intellectual arrogance, a sure receipe for disaster if you run real money or are involved in financial markets. Last but not least. All marked disasters in the financial world have sprouted from the minds of so called intellectuals from the crash in 1987 with "portfolio"insurance to the use of Var models, ALM models etc.


Oh regional Indian's picture

Internet Kill Switch.

Like Top Kill at GOM, eh?

A distraction. Real control of the net is easy.

It's called selective filtering. For all I know, and you  too for that matter, we are seeing different versions of the ZH site, here in India and there in the US.

The will not kill it, hey will choke it off.

And with a little denial of service here a little bad-mouthing there....


Suddenly ZH is down all the time. Too much. 

But hey! CNBC is always squawking!

Like that.

Smart one's amongst us should be developing alternative pathways for receiving information.




Grand Supercycle's picture


On May 4th I called the end of the March 2009 bear market rally.

The proprietary indicators I use in my technical analysis can identify trend changes before they occur.


moneymutt's picture

Have a coworker whose son is studying at a highly regarded midwest private college. He said his son, a smart mathy kid, took an economics course. Having read lots of libertarian stuff and monetary, anti-Fed thing, at end of semester stopped by profs office, and he asked professor about these outside critiques, waiting to hear what BS the prof would throw back. Instead, the professor said that they would never admit it, but academic economist know most of what they publish but is stupid, wrong...but the Fed was behind most of the academic economist funding, so the profs gave them what they wanted to succeed in getting money, prestige etc...

A Nanny Moose's picture

yet again, ego trumps truth. It shall be their undoing. Unfortunately there will be collateral damage.

We've taken care of everything.


JW n FL's picture

Thanks Republican's....

***** The Troubled Asset Relief Program, commonly referred to as TARP or RCP, is a program of the United States government to purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector. It is the largest component of the government's measures in 2008 to address the subprime mortgage crisis. *****


December 16, 2003. The American Dream Downpayment Assistance Act authorizes up to $200 million annually for fiscal years 2004 - 2007.



HOME is the largest Federal block grant to State and local governments designed exclusively to create affordable housing for low-income households. Each year it allocates approximately $2 billion among the States and hundreds of localities nationwide. The program was designed to reinforce several important values and principles of community development:



Which was part of: HOME is authorized under Title II of the Cranston-Gonzalez National Affordable Housing Act, as amended. Program regulations are at 24 CFR Part 92.

Which Daddy Bush pushed thru...


Now, after pumping all of these dollars in... Bush cut funding, never mind the shit head idiot dems v. reps...

When Bush pumped the housing market, with the magic, un-written Federal backstop clause and then cut the funding... all of that 50 to 1 leverage took on a new sheen... 50 to 1 leverage for an ongoing Federal Program, or as I would call it... The big boys feeding from the public trough of tax dollars... was safe, safe enough that how many absolute return funds bought into the rated, magic Federal funded and back stopped debt machine / vehicles? LOTS!


SpotLight the Dream Republicans!

Gimp's picture

Sgt_Doom the youtube clip of Rep. Grayson trying to get a straight answer out of the dimwit Inspector General overseeing the Federal Reserve is so telling of large bureaucratic institutions in action.

Having served in the military I saw the same non answers to questions continually and it seems the higher you go in an organization the less likely you will actually get a straight answer to any question. We seem to have created a society of avoid, deflect, deer in the headlights look, do nothing attitude and it will go away mentality. How long this can last only the Romans knew.

Millivanilli's picture

If the fed is operating on such an elevated level, perhaps they can give us commoners the economic formulas necessary to 'get it.' 


williambanzai7's picture

This guy Crackhead Urethra is a two bit resume challenged former Citi economoron.

Why get into a big lather over his useless musings. Do you think anyone besides ZH readers have read his blathering.

sgt_doom's picture

Kartik Athreya sounds like he may marry Steve Kohlhagen, but hopefully they won't spawn as they would require a surrogate mother for their mutant offspring.

Kohlhagen (a former finance professor at the University of California, Berkeley, and an ex-AIG Financial Products executive) said the following in prepared remarks to the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission:

“Credit-default swaps had absolutely no role whatsoever in causing the financial crisis.  The bubble would have been shorter-lived and the resulting financial crisis would have been less severe” had swaps not been used to guarantee CDOs, he said.


Kohlhagen, probably a soulbrother to that fellow, Kartik (who is a guy, BTW), had some other equally retarded remarks to say about the meltdown.

I predict Kohlhagen will eventually be found "working" at the Federal Reserve, attending those expensive luncheons which those guys are frequently limousined to.

And lest anyone has forgotten those crackjack sharp types at the Federal Reserve, allow us to once again view that wonderful clip showing the Inspector General of the entire Federal Reserve System telling Rep. Alan Grayson she is completely ignorant of where those missing trillions went to:



Diamond Jim's picture

Economists are like meteorologists (weather pundits for those educated in "goement" schools), and astrologers. "well, maybe this will happen...."  Little science, lots of subjective analysis.

JW n FL's picture

Hey Jim! what the FUCK?! is subjective about these numbers?

Let’s call it $2 Billion a month in benefits paid out... just for conversational proposes... ( I am saying that instead of the $1.1 Billion in benefits being paid to the couch potatoes that it is really $2 billion a month in benefits being Paid. )

$750 Billion (TARP) =’s 375 Months… or 31 plus years of benefits?\

( I am saying that for what the Republicans GAVE away to the Banks, that we could pay $2 Billion dollars a month going forward for 31 fucking plus years! so, what the fuck does your dumb ass not understand? drill baby drill?)

Boot straps? you should be hung by boot straps!

JW n FL's picture

As a Blogger? not really I comment on Blogs... which make me a wanna be Blogger, I guess... I think that my math is accurate... someone want to fact check my very LIBERAL view(s)?! for me... if I am full of shit... or in need of being slammed I would like someone with a fucking calculater to explain to me why I should be slammed? other than your a GoldBug and you "FEEL" like it... so, with the requirement that feelings get checked at the door... will someone explain to me how, the half ass and / or wanna be Blogger is off on his numbers?



Let’s call it $2 Billion a month in benefits paid out... just for conversational proposes...

$750 Billion (TARP) =’s 375 Months… or 31 plus years of benefits?

I think we all can agree that the stimulus Packages… or monies being poured into the AAA Rated Corporations coffers exceeds the trillion dollar mark in multiples…

So, is the burden of debt really a bunch of couch potatoes milking the system? Or is the real problem or the real burden the amount of monies being poured into Wall Street?

The real problems are belittled daily by a bunch of wanna be Republican Conservatives… who pontificate about people pulling themselves up by their own boot straps or abortion... while the Country is Robbed Blind!

Drill Baby! Drill!!

Austerity Measures! For / or Against the un-employed / fellow American Country Men and / or Women… while we (as a Country) offer Tax Breaks to Companies who move Jobs Offshore / out of the United States.

The Democrats continue on the same path as laid by Bush… The Lobby controls our Government in Total! The Lobby owns US! ALL!! No exceptions!

The un-employed benefits being paid is NOT! the drag that is holding US! As a Country! Back… 


or maybe these numbers make me a crack pot?


December 16, 2003. The American Dream Downpayment Assistance Act authorizes up to $200 million annually for fiscal years 2004 - 2007.



HOME is the largest Federal block grant to State and local governments designed exclusively to create affordable housing for low-income households. Each year it allocates approximately $2 billion among the States and hundreds of localities nationwide. The program was designed to reinforce several important values and principles of community development:



Which was part of: HOME is authorized under Title II of the Cranston-Gonzalez National Affordable Housing Act, as amended. Program regulations are at 24 CFR Part 92.

Which Daddy Bush pushed thru...


Now, after pumping all of these dollars in... Bush cut funding, never mind the shit head idiot dems v. reps...

When Bush pumped the housing market, with the magic, un-written Federal backstop clause and then cut the funding... all of that 50 to 1 leverage took on a new sheen... 50 to 1 leverage for an ongoing Federal Program, or as I would call it... The big boys feeding from the public trough of tax dollars... was safe, safe enough that how many absolute return funds bought into the rated, magic Federal funded and back stopped debt machine / vehicles? LOTS!

But, when the Federal monies where cut... and the magic backstop was found to be a lie... the domino's fell, one after another... Goldman, being smarter than the rest bought shorts and insurance? how many different ways did Goldman profit from the failure, per deal... in the plainest of terms... for every one dollar in failed debt Goldman earned $2 dollars? Short + Swaps? I am guessing there just for the fun of it... sorry. (I heard today in Testimony on C-Span that some of the BBB tranches where in fact used 9 times over in the synthetic CDO’s offered)


But the failure was brought on by Bush pumping and then de-stabilizing the Federal dollars (really tax payer dollars) that where assumed to be safe by Bear, Lehman and so on... Don't get me wrong, Barney is an idiot Lobby whore just like Bush... but there is no difference between Barney, Bush, Obama, Clinton and so on... they are all moved by Lobby dollars... the song and dance is strictly for the public's entertainment.


Obama is Bush part duex.. he is not a commie, he has taken every Bush program and ran with it... not run from it. Dont get caught up in the public spin machine.


I offer... http://www.opensecrets.org/ see who owns your favorite representatives and then for fun look at the dem's side who should be against the reps push... and see how the dollars move the votes, not the party affiliations.


John Mcsame spent all of a whole 10 minutes yesterday grilling Goldman, and said he was very disappointed in Goldmans behavior... he spoke less that the girl in Levin's ear...

Top Industries

John McCain


Finance, Insurance & Real Estate






Lawyers & Lobbyists











John McSame spent 100 times less times talking about how we all have been screwed by Goldman for around 10 times (Please look at the monies paid to John McSame and explain to me how 10 times is off?)  more money than the other committee members where Bribed... Oops, I mean Lobbied with.


There is no difference between the two parties, the lobby has bought and paid for all the whores inside the beltway, don’t think because of the cute sound bite you like hearing that the two parties are any different.


How about some Health Care numbers?


$3.5 Billion dollars in lobby monies... since 1998... out of health professionals alone?


Health Sector Campaign Contributions and Lobbying Totals, 1989-2009*

Period Covered1

Total Contributions

To Current Members of Congress

Total Spent on Lobbying

All Years




2009 Only







All 2008

All 2009


Pct Change

Pharmaceuticals/Health Products










Health Services/HMOs





Health Professionals





Hospitals/Nursing Homes





Misc Health







But it’s Obama Care? see the problem is... that you have been drinking the Kool-Aid as well... right verses left... left verses right... you are just as stupid as the rest of the sheep standing next to you… Baaaaaaaa… Baaaaaaaaaa!


There is no spoon... only the lobby that controls either, the left or the right.


Obama didn’t spend BILLIONS of his dollars so the poor could have "Healthcare"... Nor did the "Poor" write the check(s) that came crashing in to the Coffers of all of those nice people within the "Beltway".


Who benefits from the healthcare plan? the poor? or is there a 60% allowance for all monies to be dumped into the private sector? are the insurance companies really just feeding at the public trough like everyone else? isn’t the insurance companies turn? let me know if you need me to dumb it down for you some more.


as a wanna be Blogger who lacks the talent to write a Blog... I think that my numbers and logic are sound... the FED who has

Diogenes's picture

Oh boy an internet kill switch. That means a battle of wits, Barack Obama vs a million hackers. Wonder who will win?

RichardP's picture

How do you hack a node/server when its electricity has been shut off?


Misean's picture

"Just as the [fundamentalist] priests, stripped of the arcane scriptures and rituals, stand exposed ... so too the economists, stripped of their arcane equations and theories, stand exposed ...."

Not fundementalist...in fact, fundementalism is diametrically opposed to the notion the author is trying to espouse.  It is more accurately scholasticism. Scholasticism, in and of itself is actually quite beneficial, however, like any human institution, those that run things hate challenge. And as the church ran the schools, so today the Feral runs the ebubblegnomist profession.

Further, most arguments against scholasticism are based on myths of scholaticism anyway, but as an analogy here, it does serve a purpose.  It's just a shame that the author chose to use inflamatory language instead of accurate language, as the accurate analogy is far a fuller and thorough rebuke.

/stepping off soap box


George Washington's picture

Fundamentalists believe that every single word of the book (be it the Torah, New Testament or Koran) is true and correct and cannot be questioned or varied. They also believe that everything you need to know is in the book.

Fundamentalist economists believe that the theories and models they're using couldn't possibly be wrong, and there is nothing outside of them.

Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Federal Reserve PhDs are no different than professor type PhDs. They are always right all of the time no matter how wrong they really are. They are excellent at talking the "known" and "correct" theories no matter how ridiculous it may be. This is an ideal representation of the educated idiot.

Kayman's picture

On the one hand, Kartik Athreya sounds like a mental midget elitist, ignorant of history and politics of economic methodology; on the other hand I am simply a blogger endowed with a brain and a great deal of skepticism.

I guess we will have to disagree. 

Nevertheless, when one of the Feds paid apologists bleats that bloggers don't know about economics, the best translation is the Fed is running scared.

Only when the crowds gather around to burn the Fed to the ground will our bought-and-paid-for Fed Phd economists wish they had taken a minor in REALPOLITIK 101.

jmc8888's picture

The funniest point I found is that they said it was 'hard'. 

No it isn't. 

Maybe for YOU idiots, thus why you got it WRONG.

Economics is no harder (actually easier) than engineering, various medical professions, etc.  Plus that's just speaking mentally.  I would love to see how hard ditch digging would be to these dumbasses.  Now THAT would be hard, but only physically.  (somehow though I bet these phd dumbasses would be hard pressed to feel smart if they were doing this because they aren't trained for it.)

Hell I bet you could do a study of professionals in an industry who are right and wrong...and I'd bet economists are more often wrong at a much higher percentage than other fields of expertise.  I would even guess that the best economists pegging things right is less than some of the worst in other various fields.

The only thing hard about economics, is the believability that it's valid.  It isn't science, and economists should rightly realize that they are nothing more than trained snake oil salesmen, who hear tales from a few idiots about how it made them better and offer that as evidence and facts that what they are selling is real. 

Sorry, they've all been guesses, and even now with all the statistical modelling replacing other types of analysis, and relied upon as a crutch, economists have only become more detached from the reality they wish to fool you into believing exists.  (they've gone so far the only ones they are fooling are sadly themselves.)

For all the dumbass economists who don't know shit about how to interpret statistical models, but they think they do, here's a clue...they're only GUESSES.

That model you're RELYING upon, and treating it like it's the law of gravity, is merely an alternate universe whose only properties that explain it and it's laws are contained within the model through its variables and whatnot.   In other words, there never has been, and never will be a statistical model that accurately mimics the actual universe we really reside within.  Never. 

I just loved when the phd guys who supposedly know everything about economics were in front of congress today, AIG/Goldman hearings, and what did they say....that's right, that their statistical models didn't anticipate what happened.  Well no fucking shit sherlock.  I guess you need a phd to guess that, oh wait, you don't, and if you have one, odds are, you didn't see it.

So guess what, there is NO WAY to include such unknowns into a statistical model.  Based off this idea, then guess how many other problems we're likely to face when you consider many important parts of our lives are now living not within the real universe, but the fake statistical model one, except they don't behave like the models.  Cap and trade, healthcare, derivatives, you name it, there's a statistical model that's full of shit when compared to reality trying to rule the roost. Go ahead, crown King Nothing.

Yes, Phd economists are all so smart that they outsourced their repsonsibility to statistical models that they did not understand themselves!  (and still don't)

Besides it seems a lot of Phd's are idiots, because they seem to think only people capable of Phd's, attained them, and that everyone that didn't, could not.  Talk about idiocy.  You could probably x10 the number of phd's there are, that is, if you gave the means, and the desire existed for that many people to graduate. 

These phd were also among the guys who MISSED the crises, and most refuse to see another one coming.  Or downplaying it.

What exactly did you learn? Not much it appears.  At least what is actually used.  So congratulations on the phd, here's your brownie button.  Now go sit in the corner and let people who actually understand economics, lead the way forward.

Diogenes's picture

I bet if anyone took the trouble to assess all predictions made by all economists they would turn out to be significantly worse than random chance. Just like fund managers as a whole do worse than buying the market averages.

The last I heard 86% of fund managers do worse than average, I bet they beat the economists by a significant margin though.

Rainman's picture

Excellent thoughts. Everybody secretly knows the employed economist talks the book of his paymaster. Failing to do so makes them unemployed and probably unemployable. The economist is only around to present the facade of authority and specialized knowledge backed by an elevated title.

God laughs all day long at the assumptions of economists....among others. 

New_Meat's picture

viz. Rosie, Whitney, et al.

Sudden Debt's picture

You keep the dumb, while I rob them blind.

That was the credo of the European church and Nobels in the 19th century.

Gimp's picture

Anarkst - There is no admission test required to post to a blog, set-up a blog so your statement can be considered - true.

RockyRacoon's picture

A theory as an internally consistent system is valid if the conclusions follow logically from its premises, and the fact that neither the premises nor theconclusions correspond to reality may show that the theory is not very useful, but does not invalidate it.

Does to.

Gimp's picture

GF - Hoover would have loved the internet and blog posters. It would have told him everything he wanted to know about an individual or group.

Of course Hoover's taste for wearing womens clothing and probable homosexuality (not that there is anything wrong with that in 2010) we would know today by his internet browsing history.

Problem Is's picture

"Hoover's taste for wearing womens clothing and probable homosexuality..."

FBI Associate Director Clyde Tolson resembles that remark...

anarkst's picture

"Kartik Athreya of the Richmond Federal Reserve Bank arguesthat bloggers are stupid, and that only PhD economists have a right to say anything about economics policy."

Who would disagree with the first part of her statement?  It seems obvious that most bloggers are pretty stupid.  

akak's picture

"It seems obvious that most bloggers are pretty stupid."

And that would leave the co-opted, pro-Federal Reserve, PhD-level economists whose predictions and policies have failed spectacularly and repeatedly being ...... ?

RockyRacoon's picture

Here is some funny stuff, very apropos of the topic:

Economics is Easy; Comedy is Hard

Here is an example:

...questions be used for all economic PhD candidates as part of their qualifying exams:


Please identify the 3 non-science fields in the following list:

-Nonlinear Wave Dynamics
-Wimmins studies
-Quantum Physics
-Bioinformatics and Proteomics
-General Relativity
-Design and Fabrication of Microelectromechanical Devices
-18th Century English Poetry
-String Theory


• In 2007, the Fed Chairman stated that subprime mortgages were contained.

   What was the analytical basis of this statement? Why was it wrong? What impact did it have?

Problem Is's picture

Kartik Athreya just had a Dickweed Dennis Kneale--"Dickweed bloggers" moment...

Kartik ask Dennis:
"Who's the Dickweed now?"

evanesce's picture

In logic, an argument is valid if it follows from its premises. It is sound if it is valid and its premises are true.

Plainly, a lot of economic theory is unsound. The technical use of "valid" neatly weasels out of the crux of the matter - which is whether the theory is useful or not.

Gully Foyle's picture


I just limited it to the idea we all here may be spied on. I've said numerous times there are at least three identifiable groups posting here and other net hotspots. If you add private companies like Xe, who knows how many paid posters are out there.
It reminds me of the old US Communist party having so many infiltrators they were funded by the FBI.

I found the Turner link and sections quoted on e Liberal blog.It looks like information is traveling faster than most people expected.

sgt_doom's picture

"..who knows how many paid posters..."

It's actually even more complex than that (besides including all those comm centers posting for National Assoc. of Manufacturers, Financial Services Roundtable, US Chamber of Commerce, et al.); as there are bots automatically web crawling, so too are there bots coded to automatically post (with natural language frontends) at specific sites, or specific content-type sites.

Gimp's picture

GF you forgot to mention the "American" congressmen who hold two passports. Whose interest are they working for again?

To be fair to these primarily "jewish" groups, just about every other group and nationality is trying to do the same thing in the "open" American society.

Political correctness is the perfect weapon to scream an injustice as soon as you don't get what you want. The original intentions and groups it was trying to help have long since been forgotten. 

Gully Foyle's picture

Dude quoting Rivero. man that will get you slammed.

This is tangentially relevant to your quoting Rivero. Take it how you choose.


"ADL and AIPAC Infiltration of US Law Enforcement

The FBI told Turner that the Israeli government maintains a vast spy network and major propaganda machines inside the United States. The “fronts” for that spy network and the source of the major propaganda are the Anti Defamation League (ADL) and the America-Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC).

These groups promote themselves as being supportive of Jewish people and Jewish interests. They also tout themselves as guardians against “hate” and “anti-Semitism.” The reality, however, is quite different. The FBI explained that these groups are information –gathering networks and propaganda outlets. They seek-out anyone who espouses views contrary to Israel then smear and discredit such people as Anti-Semites, Bigots, Racists or even Nazis. In addition, whenever the state of Israel does something horrific, like bombing innocent Palestinians, invading another country or killing “militants,” ADL and AIPAC launch intense propaganda campaigns to smooth-over public relations.

The FBI told Hal Turner that whenever members of these two groups identify a potential “threat” to Jewish or Israeli interests, they engage intense efforts to find out anything and everything they can about the “threat.” So whenever a media personality, media outlet or political candidate says or does anything which conflicts with the Israeli agenda, the ADL and AIPAC go into attack mode.

The FBI explained that one way the ADL gets information about people they perceive as “threats” is by infiltrating law enforcement agencies in the USA to gain access to confidential police records. The ADL has a notorious history of doing this and has been caught several times accessing and possessing confidential police files. One such example of ADL illegally accessing police files, covered by the “Los Angeles Times” newspaper, can be read here: http://articles.latimes.com/1993-04-17/news/mn-24002_1_illegal-spying

The FBI explained to Turner that AIPAC also has a very long history of actual espionage against the United States and provided Turner with un-redacted, classified documents for him to view proving what they claimed. You can read declassified or redacted versions of those same documents at this link: http://www.irmep.org/ila/economy/

The FBI wanted to exploit this aspect of ADL/AIPAC conduct to identify leaks and plug them.

Counter-Intelligence Operation

The FBI told Hal Turner that the fastest way to achieve this goal was for the FBI to attach an electronic “symbol” to Turner’s FBI records. This way, whenever any law enforcement agency or someone inside the Justice Department made an inquiry into FBI files about Hal Turner, the FBI computer system would read the “symbol” and secretly generate a report to the Joint Terrorism task Force showing who made the inquiry, the agency they were with, and the date and time the inquiry was made. This would allow the JTTF to identify ADL/AIPAC infiltrators and plug the information leaks.

This made sense to Turner, but he asked what he would have to do to make this system work? Why would the ADL or AIPAC even bother with him? The FBI told him to wait a few days until the FBI could put the electronic symbol on his files. Once Turner was notified that the symbol was in place, he was to go on the air and on the internet and ferociously attack jews and Israel with a level of vitriolic hatred akin to Josef Goebbels from the former Third Reich in World War 2 Nazi Germany. Turner agreed to do it but was warned in very strong terms to never reveal this operation to anyone, including to his primary JTTF contacts, Stephen Haug and Leonard Nerbetski. In order for the operation to work, he was told, no one could know about it, especially FBI HQ.

About two weeks later, Hal Turner got a call from Special Agent Stephen Haug, his primary contact at JTTF. Haug told Turner that the FBI had decided to place an electronic symbol on his file to “make certain Hal wasn’t concealing any police troubles from the FBI during his time with JTTF.” That’s what Haug thought, but Turner knew the truth. That phone call was the signal for Turner to let loose with anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli venom for the counter-intelligence operation and he did so with gusto.

Hal Turner went on the air and on his web site and let loose with every form of vitriolic filth imaginable about Jews and Israel. It didn’t take long for the ADL and AIPAC to take the bait.

Astonishing results!

Within weeks, dozens of unauthorized inquiries were being made into Hal Turner’s FBI files from law enforcement agencies around the country. Unauthorized accesses were made from within the Department of Justice, from within the FBI, from the Secret Service, from the US Marshal Service, from the US Capitol Police, from the Pennsylvania State Police and many other agencies. Each time an inquiry was made, a secret report of it went to the JTTF.

Over the coming months, JTTF made personal visits to those agencies and took up the issue of unauthorized access. They knew which operator did it, from which agency, from which computer terminal and those people were called on the carpet. It was made clear that such accesses to FBI files were not to be done in the future unless they were part of a legitimate and documented police investigation. It was made very clear that if future unauthorized accesses were made, the agency itself could find its access to FBI databases CUT OFF and anyone making such unauthorized accesses would be criminally prosecuted! Word of this spread like wildfire within law enforcement circles.

About 9 months later, in a casual phone conversation with the Special Agent in Charge of FBI Newark, it was revealed to Hal Turner that this operation netted “over 100” leaks. The FBI told Hal Turner that his work was the single most successful counter-intelligence effort in years and the nation owed Hal a debt of gratitude for cutting off unauthorized access to FBI files."

Muir's picture

You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? Then who the hell else are you talking... you talking to me? Well I'm the only one here. Who the fuck do you think you're talking to? Oh yeah? OK.