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Die Welt: EU Commission Is Considering Doubling Size Of European Financial Stab [sic] Fund
Who would have thought a little pre-thankgsiving truth that the EFSF is missing a zero would set off such a firestorm of protest. From Die Welt (google translated): "The EU Commission wants to double the rescue to calm the markets. But so far, the federal government off against the proposal."
Und weiter:
Given the recent currency turmoil around Ireland, Portugal and Spain, there are considerations in the EU to increase the euro rescue significantly. How "World Online" learned, suggested the EU Commission to double the protective shield in its height. Germany, as the economically strongest member of the community rejects the plans reportedly at least the time being.
Previously had Bundesbank President Axel Weber indicated the possibility of aggravation of the shield. "If the amount is not enough, we could increase it," Weber said in Paris. "An attack on the € no chance of success." The Euro-shield, which was launched by European States and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) could be claimed in the coming months of other countries in the euro area.
Now that Ireland has recently rescued the €-shield, now countries such as Portugal and Spain have come under suspicion of having to apply for crisis assistance. Observers doubted, however, that sufficient funds of € protective shield for the capital needs of a large country such as Spain would.
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"10:53: Greek PM says Eurobonds is a solution for crisis mechanism"
Ingenious. To make shit taste like chocolate, hide it into chocolate.
You know an odd feeling? Sitting on the toilet eating a chocolate candy bar.
George Carlin
Eat enough seaweed and you can shit Green too.
Man, this stuff reads like a book. Why don't they just call all the currency infinitely elastic and stop pretending they care about shrinking your savings to protect the overleveraged loansharks?
I hate paranoid conspiracy crap. I hate airy fairy new age crap. I need solid logic. There is a lot of crap around precious metals that has a mythological quality to it. I have done a lot of sifting, worrying, and I still keep an open mind that I might be wrong, but I have come to it that this, what Bob is saying up here, THIS is why you must get into gold and silver.
I spent Tuesday evening reading up on and listening to various logics on silver. God I had to sift through some seriously deluded bullshit (that shit can really turn some folks off, wish people who didn't know better would just STFU) but I have become convinced silver is the sleeper that is going to shock everyone.
PMs are insurance you hold during normal times. These days however, getting into PMs is an act of protest, resistance, and withdrawal from the system. PMs historically have been the way to retreat when all other financial instruments collapse. They can dilute it some with counterfeit, but they can't electronically conjure it into being. PM ownership is a refusal to be a con artist. I have the PM and I hand it to you or I don't. All else is bullshit.
PMs are not perfect, but they are the best thing we have.
Sorry for the rant, PMs are solidarity and this is a front I can support. I have guns (had to "clear" my house just yesterday) but this is a war I can support and the more people who join us, the better chance we have of having a less bloody revolution.
MsCreant, i too researched and found silver to be the best bet. I am just a little guy with 200 ozs. better than nothing for sure.
Still i write because i think for many rabbits and chickens will be a better bet. Cant eat silver, and cant buy food if there aint none. And that last item is a possibility with strong potential.
My mate is against it. She has faith in government, i lost mine.
get control of your bitch...anyone who has faith in government after what we've seen is completely delusional.
The institution of debtmoney no longer has mathematical viability. Tomorrow's interest cannot be repaid with today's growth, because there isn't any growth.
So, what is the solution to insolvency? Lend MORE??!?! Somehow MORE debt will cure a problem of too much debt? Borrow your way out of bankruptcy?
As an aside, start hiding your PMs from your mate because they will inevitably end up gone when she gets around to divorcing you because you were right.
"The institution of debtmoney no longer has mathematical viability."
Specifically the mathematical part. The infinite growth model has to die eventually, and probably very slowly, given how many people are riding it. There's this temptation to get all eschatological about things but it's happening so slowly that waiting around for the end of the world just gets boring. Nevertheless, something huge is changing like a long slow train driving into the brick wall of physical limitations, with many coming apparent rallies, but for me it boils down to the fact that every single rule of thumb humans have relied on since our descent from the trees has been able to lean on the assumption that there was room to grow. The new paradigm is an ugly zero sum game.
The slope of the downside of the oil supply curve will dictate the pace of the unwind. Simple as that.
There is no "moment" in which a switch flips. Even wanton Weimar printing took years, as has Zimbabwe. In rare cases, there are Argentina bank lockages, but the overall collapses play out over longer timescales.
I'm with you on the PMs. Protest yes, but very practical and rationally grounded.
Just following the Chinese lead, another creditor in the same boat with us holding fiat (bad) notes.
We're all Chinese now.
That is so true and sucks so bad. There is an America I am still loyal to, sounds corny, but it's still there in me. I get depressed and focus on my disillusionment from time to time, and say things to myself like "it never existed." But when I hang out, even just on a blog like this, with folks who see what is happening and ardently want to do something about it, I know the whole thing is not a lie, but more like a forgotten mission that we need to pick up and breathe purpose and life into it again. Peace Bro.
airy fairy new age crap -
Couldn't have said it better. Gave me a smile and a new smack down line. Thanks.
I've come to similar conclusions by a different path. Everything is over priced, thanks to Baldy Ben. Farm land, Latin American real estate, apartment buildings... blue chip stocks, it is to laugh.
In some respects gold and silver are just two more durable goods, and less valuable than a good shot gun or still (limit five gallons per annum, medicinal use only). Their real power is that they are similtaneously commodities, money, and infinitely durable.
So what else has those qualities? How about nickel, copper, plantinum, etc. The "path less travelled by" may yield more opportunities. At any rate, we need more ways to kick Ben & Timmy in the nuts.
Happy Turkey Day.
Hope your Turkey day was a good one! Mine was. Quiet, small, low pressure. It was awesome.
I agree on those other metals though I can't hold enough of most of them to feel safe!
Good rant. Here is mine.
PMs stand in opposition to the governance of our economic system and its decision mechanisms, and not to our currencies. It is the hyper-inflationary depreciation of the governance of our economic system that cause the demand for these metals to go up.
For this reason I think the gold price should be understood as an allegory and not a manifestation of demand and supply. The adequate measurement for understanding PM demand is asking "how much was taken down" as the question of price is for those who have not made the leap.
Diluted integrity = diluted currency. I really like that. To the point.
Well done rant MsC, with which I agree...
;-)
+1, I like MsCreant.
Got any more monkey business for us? Those were fun.
I like the way you think. Filtering crap is messy and annoying but so is gold prospecting. Bottom line is, fiat currency isn't close to being abandoned, some may want to abandon it, some may want to change it, some may want to re-order it completely, some may want to replace it, and much of that may come to pass, but it isn't actually going away. Even when it breaks, which it will, and always has. That would be like assuming sovereign debt default means no one will lend to your country again. Of course, they will, and when paper money breaks, it comes right back again, like nothing happened.
That's not to say metals are a bad idea as they aren’t, right now. Just that the myth that "houses always go up" didn't prove true and won't for metals either.
On a lighter note, I watched aghast yesterday as a woman from McDonalds spoke as guest speaker at an INNOVATION CONFERENCE here in Australia. No, I'm not joking.
At moments like these I get a sliver of a glimpse into the abhorrent responses of the Taliban with regard to western cultural influences. (like, where's my RPG?!!)
All I could think was, where's that giant Monty Python's foot when you need it?
So, eyes-peeled for innovative burger technologies on NASDAQ, might make all the difference to a US economic recovery.
Spent some time with Nassim Taleb's work yesterday. We won't see it coming, that I am sure of. About your innovation conference, my condolences. I get stuck at crap from time to time because of my job. Often comical fantasies of hooks grabbing them off the podium save my soul. More like innovative "berger" technologies could save the day. We have a hell of a bottle neck coming.
Good luck, Aussie.
If you think for a minute, you'll realize why there's so much "seriously deluded bullshit" out there (in fact, you've figured it out in that very sentence)...
I had that thought while sifting, that some of it was soo bad it had to be designed to "unimpress." I do think some folks have a lot of ego, a lot of conviction, and very little skill and so they end up putting out a lot of declarations that are not backed up by much.
Thanks to all on this thread for the discussion and support.
That will show us little people whos boss. And we thought it couldn't be done. Remember, In a virtual world complete with virtual printed money, Anything is possible. As long us little people fall for it, Then it works. I think Balloon boy taught us that. Case in point, Kangaroo Courts ( See below).. Enjoy your virtual Thanksgiving.
http://4closurefraud.org/2010/09/27/naked-capitalism-floridas-kangaroo-f...
Holy Crap TD from your pages to their response to their soiled undergarments to their "feckin' hell guess we betta" response.
h/t
Happy Holy Day All
Weber says this, Weber says that... Weber sure doth yap a lot today. He's the sane one, though, so everything must be peaches and cream.
+1
Funny how at the slightest whiff of a "convulsion" over in Europe, these plutocrats start scrambling to utter some type of statement to "soothe" investors.
And the investors buy it, hook, line, and sinker....
Indeed.
Oh, that's a relief! (FFS, it's like reading 'Atlas Shrugged' over and over again).
Notice how they begin to speak like mouthpieces of petty dictators. Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf comes to mind and anything out of Iran and North Korea.
They honestly seem to believe that shorts are the be-all and end-all of the problem. I am recalling that video where G-Pap attacked Hugh Hendry, saying that the ECB would "crush" the speculators. They accomplished that for about 2 weeks.
Now, they honestly think they can build a "defensive wall" around the EU periphery.
I guess any other belief system would require them to admit their utter ineptitude.
A new emergency rescue package will be unveiled about 11:59PM Sunday night. Move along.
investors buy it, hook, line, and sinker
yes Robot, if we could only do the same for gold 200 eh?....but what with the likes of Ms Creant alerting the sheeple, we're screwed here.
What's a few Quadrillion among friends.
It's now public. ZH will have saved Europe without firing a shot.
A Spanish Crisis Could Strain EU's Current Bailout Capacityhttp://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20101124-710080.html
How Europe's Massive Rescue Fund Could Fall Shorthttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704526504575634913516773290.html
"While it is unlikely...." LOL
It's not about what debased crap the IMF would be willing to give...it's what they'll "ask for" in return.
Just an FYI, Kirkegaard, who said the first quote, has no say in the bailout. He is a researcher at the Pete Peterson Institute.
LOL:
Euro Must Stay to Prevent European Banking-System Collapse, Evolution Says By Charles Penty - Nov 25, 2010The European banking system would be “nearly bust” if the euro were to be abandoned which means the 16-member currency “cannot and should not go,” Evolution Securities Ltd. said.
“If the euro is abandoned, and we go back to the peseta, lira, escudo, drachma etc., devaluations would follow immediately,” said Arturo de Frias, head of bank research at Evolution in a note to investors today, adding the industry is a “great buying opportunity.” Devaluations mean write-offs “of a size that would render the whole European banking system completely insolvent.”
Contagion from Europe’s sovereign debt crisis is spreading to Spain, sparking concern that the European rescue fund set up in May isn’t large enough. French, German and U.K. banks could lose 360 billion euros ($479 billion) if the euro collapsed, assuming a 30 percent devaluation in the wake of the restoration of national currencies, said de Frias.
The damage caused by the abandonment of the euro would be such that such an outcome is impossible and the “only way forward” for Europe is fiscal union, he said.
“It is simply too late,” he wrote. “There are too many cross-border investments in Europe to go back to national currencies.”
If Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal and Ireland devalue by 30 percent on the way to readopting national currencies, total losses for German banks alone would be 120 billion euros, said de Frias. That’s almost half the total equity of German lenders, he said.
Banks Undervalued
In such a scenario, losses at U.K. banks would reach 80 billion euros, equivalent to nearly half the equity of Barclays Plc, Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc and Lloyds Banking Group Plc., he said.
“And this is only the banks. What would happen with the investments of the large European multinationals” like Siemens AG, Tesco Plc and others. “More multi-billion losses, and future profits lost.”
Once it’s clear that the euro will survive, “it will become clear that some of our banks are 50 percent, 70 percent or 80 percent” undervalued, he wrote.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/print/2010-11-25/european-banks-nearly-bust-if-euro-were-left-to-collapse-evolution-says.html
C'mon folks! We gotta keep drinkin' or we'll get sober, and who wants that?!
Fortunately for these bankfensteins, common man/woman does not understand the impact of such actions till it hits their ability to have a drink/go to a game/buy something...etc.
By the time it comes to a head, like in Ireland currently, the game has moved one step forward..... for example, anyone here remember the french riots, last week? As in actively?
Thought not.
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com
The genius of our ruling class is that it has kept a majority of the people from ever questioning the inequity of a system where most people drudge along, paying heavy taxes for which they get nothing in return.
Gore Vidal
Ole G. Vidal sure fell far from the family tree eh?
Incisive.
ORI
That property on Malta I've been eying may become affordable after all.
Life is good when you live on the last domino.
The Guardian provides a handy
chart of the Irish bail-out
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/maps_and_graphs/2010/11...
This one in $ out of B.I.S data from the
Peterson institute:
http://www.iie.com/images/f/kirkegaard20101119-2.png
It seems to have reached the brains of the German
officials that their banks, having already costed
them 500 billion euros two years
ago, are the first on the hook..
Bring it- Video of European Parliament in Strasbourg Nov 24, 2010:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fyq7WRr_GPg&feature=popt1dnz0a
The look of these faces as they hear some unvarnished truth is breathtaking...
What a brilliant speech!!!! Facts in the face of BS.
this is awesome shit.
the EU now is akin to having NY's politicians trying to pimp out a smaller US State. So "NY" banks would lend to say, Alabama, now NY's banks want Federal cash and the land under the feet of Alabamans.
Germans are fond to think they have interests primary to the EU project. They shouldn't have joined the union if that was the case. In the USA, no state is superior to another, due to the power of the Senate.
Awesome! Thanks
Ireland does not want any of this Shit at 5,6 or 7%.
We want 1.5% high powered money from the ECB and sweet fuck all else thankyou.
Could you float me about a billion of that on the QT Dork? I've got a rubber check in the mail to buy Santorini;)
Can't resist those damn e-bay specials.
Why don't you consider buying our very own Dursey Island complete with cable car.
You will however be expected to share your seat with other guests.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OumxHLGBciE
Germany is now laboring with the same conundrum that faces China. After decades of mercantilism, how can they *actually* get repayment from debtors they purposely bankrupted?
Germans are really of the mindset to seize Ireland and Spain and make them vassal states most of like S. America is to their banks.
The really curious thing is that the exporter mercantilists don't see a single thing wrong with the imbalances, despite that if these imbalances had never come to be due to the imposition of the "fiscal sanity" all the exporters now clamor for, there would BE no surpluses and no rosy job markets in the exporters!
Without artificial demand, there is no room for artificial supply! This necessarily means much smaller economies in mercantilist exporter nations.
Schweinhund!
Rothschild Bank and Goldman Sachs are Both on the List of Bondholders Getting Taxpayer Billions in Irish Bailout"We're going to need a bigger rescue package...."
Axel, I think you should have this man shot!
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2010/11/25/416016/beware-the-reflexivity...
Faith without works is dead.
Talk is cheap.
So, print more.
Worked so well last time....
The real problem is that the EFSF was set up incompetently and may only be able to deploy half the funds claimed. That is if it works at all. According to notayesmanseconomics who has criticised it from May/June.
So may be 200 to 250 billion rather than the 440 billion Euro's claimed. No wonder they feel they need more...
http://notayesmanseconomics.wordpress.com
Precious metals yes. But when real interest rates rise above 3% gold will fall very quickly. The TIPS yield curve will forewarn us of this.
You assume gold owners will immediately assume sovereign debt is safe?
You assume that the Fed will acknowldege real inflation above 2-3%?
You must have gotten a fat load of kind bud in.
And the obligatory denials from Germany and the European Commission, via Alphaville. Germany says it's cool.
Oh, and the latest effort from Ackermann.
Watt, real interest rates in the US will be negative for a long time, there is no exit strategy, the Fed cannot raise rates and they know it, and if they do they will do it slowly and unwillingly ensuring negative real rates.
The book has already been written, the future is already obvious we just need to live it. PMs will soar, there will be some incredible corrections to get the weak hands off the bus (think 1970's when gold fell 50% only to rise 800% thereafter, but in 5 or 10 years PMs will be shockingly higher
And by the way TIPS dont tell you anthing, investors buying TIPS are morons because as we all know the CPI is manipulated. The most laughable concept is core CPI or inflation ex inflation as I call it
The Europeans have been having a good ol' time sucking down the brewskis at the pub, but now the owner is trying to collect the tab -- no one's willing to pony up their share of the bill!
These guys need to recount the skepticism and incredulous responses that emerged after the e750 billion Euro package was first trotted-out in May.
They don't have this money, it has to be raised, it thus raises donor state rates in that process, and shunts risk costs on to donors, and it requires political solidarity to be reflected in civil sentiments.
And now they want to double it when the first pledge was not realized and never a sure thing?
This does not lead to greater cred it leads to less, and calls direct attention to the problems being much more serious than was expected in May.
Impriman dinero! Rapido, mas!
imprimen putas!
Oro es malo! No puede comer oro!
It's time to play Name That Weasal!
Who said in March 2009:
Falling central bank sales "might put a floor of some kind under gold, near $500 or so."
A. Mark Hulbert
B. Me
C. Peter Cohan
D. The Ben Bernank