Don't Let Wisconsin Divide Us ... Conservatives and Liberals AGREE About the Important Things

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Don't let Wisconsin divide us.

Conservatives and liberals actually agree about the most important things.

In fact, most Americans - conservatives and liberals - are fed up with both of the mainstream republican and democratic parties, because it has become obvious that both parties serve Wall Street and the military-industrial complex at the expense of most Americans.

In reality, all Americans - conservatives and liberals:

• Want to break up the unholy alliance between big government and big banks

• Want to break up the giant banks (and see this)

• Agree that the Wall Street criminals who committed fraud should be thrown in jail

• Agree that the Federal Reserve should be audited

• Are against corporate socialism

• Are against rampant inequality

• Want to stand up to the ruling class

• And are against unnecessary imperial wars

The powers-that-be try to divide us and demonize the "other side" so that we won't realize how much we all agree on. See this, this, this, this, this, this, this and this.

Don't let them.

Debunking Myths

Before we can honestly look at what's going on in Wisconsin, we need to dispel some commonly-accepted myths.

People who think that debts and deficits don't matter are wrong. As two top American economists - Carmen Reinhart and Kenneth Rogoff - demonstrated in December 2009 :

The relationship between government debt and real GDP growth is weak for debt/GDP ratios below a threshold of 90 percent of GDP. Above 90 percent, median growth rates fall by one percent, and average growth falls considerably more. We find that the threshold for public debt is similar in advanced and emerging economies...

As I wrote in January 2010:

Al Martin - former contributor to the Presidential Council of Economic Advisors and retired naval intelligence officer - observed in an April 2005 newsletter that the ratio of total U.S. debt to gross domestic product (GDP) rose from 78 percent in 2000 to 308 percent in April 2005. The International Monetary Fund considers a nation-state with a total debt-to-GDP ratio of 200 percent or more to be a "de-constructed Third World nation-state."

Martin explained:

What "de-constructed" actually means is that a political regime in that country, or series of political regimes, have, through a long period of fraud, abuse, graft, corruption and mismanagement, effectively collapsed the economy of that country.

Forbes noted in December:

Add the unfunded portion of entitlement programs and we're at 840% of GDP.

Boston University economics professor and former Senior Economist for the President’s Council of Economic Advisers Laurence Kotlikoff says that the real federal debt is $202 trillion dollars, and that the U.S. is bankrupt.

And see this, this, this, this and this.

So we have to reduce our debt.

And yet the government has been spending like a drunken sailor ... while slashing taxes.

Not Liberal or Conservative ... But Redistribution of Wealth Up to the Ultra-Rich

As I noted last December:

Ronald Reagan gave big tax cuts to the wealthy.

So it is dramatic that Reagan's director of Office of Management and Budget - David

Stockman - calls the Bush tax cuts "the biggest fiscal mistake in history".

Specifically, Stockman told Dylan Ratigan that Bush's advisers forecast a $5 trillion surplus over 10 years. But "two unfunded wars and a Fed engineered housing bubble later", we're in a $ 5 trillion cumulative deficit. So Bush made a $10 trillion mistake.

Stockman said extending the Bush tax cuts won't stimulate the economy, the fact that the tax cut extensions will expire on the eve of the 2012 elections will panic politicians and force them to renew them yet again, and that "we're destroying the economy on Uncle Sam's credit card.

Indeed, Moody's and other rating services are threatening to downgrade America's credit rating due to the extension of the tax cuts for the wealthy:

The rating agency said in a report Monday that last week's agreement between the White House and congressional Republicans should bolster economic growth in the next two years – but at the expense of the nation's already perilous budget position down the road.

The agreement to extend the Bush tax cuts for two years and trim workers' payroll tax contributions for one could raise the U.S. debt-to-GDP ratio at 2012 to 72-73% from around 62% now, Moody's said. It said that without the tax package, that number might have been around 68% in 2012. [These numbers are low, as discussed above.]

***

"Unless there are offsetting measures, the package will be credit negative for the US and increase the likelihood of a negative outlook on the US government's Aaa rating during the next two years," Moody's said.

The comment comes as the bond market seems to have reached very much the same conclusion. The yield on the 10-year Treasury has soared to 3.32% from around 2.4% two months ago, as investors bet on a stronger recovery and rising inflation.

At the same time, our leaders are spending like they just won the lottery.

As I wrote last March:

Why aren't our government "leaders" talking about slashing the military-industrial complex, which is ruining our economy with unnecessary imperial adventures?

And why aren't any of our leaders talking about stopping the permanent bailouts for the financial giants who got us into this mess? And see this.

And why aren't they taking away the power to create credit from the private banking giants - which is costing our economy trillions of dollars (and is leading to a decrease in loans to the little guy) - and give it back to the states?

If we did these things, we wouldn't have to raise taxes or cut core services.

And see this short video from England.

The same thing is playing out on the state level.

For example, if the Wisconsin governor was proposing cutting pensions because everyone needed to share in the sacrifice, that would be understandable. But as the Washington Post's Ezra Klein points out:

The Badger State was actually in pretty good shape. It was supposed to end this budget cycle with about $120 million in the bank. Instead, it's facing a deficit. Why? I'll let the state's official fiscal scorekeeper explain (pdf):

More than half of the lower estimate ($117.2 million) is due to the impact of Special Session Senate Bill 2 (health savings accounts), Assembly Bill 3 (tax deductions/credits for relocated businesses), and Assembly Bill 7 (tax exclusion for new employees).

In English: The governor called a special session of the legislature and signed two business tax breaks and a conservative health-care policy experiment that lowers overall tax revenues (among other things). The new legislation was not offset, and it helped turn a surplus into a deficit [see update at end of post]. As Brian Beutler writes, "public workers are being asked to pick up the tab for this agenda."

***

Update ... The $130 million deficit now projected for 2011 isn't the fault of the tax breaks passed during Walker's special session, though his special session created about $120 million in deficit spending between 2011 and 2013 -- and perhaps more than that, if his policies are extended. That is to say, the deficit spending he created in his special session is about equal to the deficit Wisconsin faces this year, but it's not technically correct to say that Walker created 2011's deficit. Rather, he added $120 million to the 2011-2013 deficits, and perhaps more in the years after that.

And according to Madison's Capitol Times:

To the extent that there is an imbalance -- Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January. If the Legislature were simply to rescind Walker’s new spending schemes -- or delay their implementation until they are offset by fresh revenues -- the “crisis” would not exist.

The Fiscal Bureau memo -- which readers can access at http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf -- makes it clear that Walker did not inherit a budget that required a repair bill.

The facts are not debatable.

Because of the painful choices made by the previous Legislature, Wisconsin is in better shape fiscally than most states.

***

[Walker] has proposed a $137 million budget “repair” bill that he intends to use as a vehicle to ...

Pay for schemes that redirect state tax dollars to wealthy individuals and corporate interests that have been sources of campaign funding for Walker’s fellow Republicans and special-interest campaigns on their behalf. As Madison’s Democratic state Rep. Brett Hulsey notes, the governor and legislators aligned with him have over the past month given away special-interest favors to every lobby group that came asking, creating zero jobs in the process “but increasing the deficit by more than $100 million.”

Actually, Hulsey’s being conservative in his estimate of how much money Walker and his allies have misappropriated for political purposes.

***

“Since his inauguration in early January, Walker has approved $140 million in new special-interest spending that includes:

“• $25 million for an economic development fund for job creation that still has $73 million due to a lack of job creation. Walker is creating a $25 million hole which will not create or retain jobs.

“• $48 million for private health savings accounts, which primarily benefit the wealthy. A study from the federal Governmental Accountability Office showed the average adjusted gross income of HSA participants was $139,000 and nearly half of HSA participants reported withdrawing nothing from their HSA, evidence that it is serving as a tax shelter for wealthy participants.

“• $67 million for a tax shift plan, so ill-conceived that at best the benefit provided to ‘job creators’ would be less than a dollar a day per new job, and may be as little as 30 cents a day.”

State Rep. Mark Pocan, D-Madison, sums up this scheming accurately when he says: “In one fell swoop, Gov. Walker is trying to institute a sweeping radical and dangerous notion that will return Wisconsin to the days when land barons and railroad tycoons controlled the political elites in Madison.”

State Senator Jon Erpenbach says that the unions have already agreed to cuts:

"The
state employees have talked about the money and giving up the money,
and that's fine. But what they have a problem with - and what a lot of
us have a problem with - is the fact that Governor Walker is taking
decades of union law and throwing it out the window and trying to bust
the unions altogether, and that's just not the right way to go."

***

"The public employees have said you can take the money - the money isn't the issue. The issue is their right to collectively bargain their contracts. And that's where we all have to draw the line."

Economist Menzie Chen argues
that Wisconsin public workers make less than their private
counterparts, even when pensions are included. Pulitzer prize winning
journalist David Cay Johnston says that Wisconsin's governor is really trying to bust unions as a first step in driving down everyone's wages ... both in the public and the private sector.  Mother Jones alleges that the billionaire Koch brothers - the ones who Supreme
Court justices Scalia and Thomas hung out with before deciding to
allow unlimited foreign money to pour into American political races - funded the election of Wisconsin's governor. And Forbes' columnist Rick Ungar claims
that the Kochs are behind the crackdown on Wisconsin unions, as they
have business interests in Wisconsin. Whether or not these claims are
true is beyond the scope of this discussion, and I haven't researched
them enough to weigh in one way or the other.

On the other hand, as James Sherk of the Heritage Foundation argues in the New York Times:

“It is impossible to bargain collectively with the government.”

That
wasn’t Newt Gingrich, or Ron Paul, or Ronald Reagan talking. That was
George Meany -- the former president of the A.F.L.-C.I.O -- in 1955.
Government unions are unremarkable today, but the labor movement once
thought the idea absurd.

***

When government unions strike, they strike against taxpayers. F.D.R. considered this “unthinkable and intolerable.”

***

Government
collective bargaining means voters do not have the final say on public
policy. Instead their elected representatives must negotiate spending
and policy decisions with unions. That is not exactly democratic – a
fact that unions once recognized.

But whether or not you think public union workers are whiners and public
labor unions harmful or beneficial, the fact is that the governor of
Wisconsin is trying to do exactly what the federal government is trying
to do: throw money at their ultra-rich friends, and pay for it by
shafting the little guy. It almost appears as if the federal and state
governments are using "shock doctrine" tactics as an excuse for imposing
"austerity measures" which benefit the wealthy at the expense of the
little guy just like failed third world countries.  (Remember, Reuters claims that republicans are trying to bankrupt states in order to weaken unions.)

Indeed, Governor Walker is a true conservative to the same extent that President Obama is a true liberal ... not very much.

Again, if everyone - giant banks and corporations as well as workers -
were being asked to share in the sacrifice, that would be completely
different. I'm all for shared sacrifice (I work for the private sector,
but I'll sacrifice a little if we can also claw back the ill-gotten
gains from Wall Street CEO's. See this, this and this.)

But that's not what's happening. Instead, federal and state policies are making the rich richer and everyone else poorer.

And if you still think that this is a conservative versus liberal issue, listen to what tried-and-proven conservatives (re-read Stockman's statements above) are saying.

For example, Paul Craig Roberts, whose conservative credentials are impeccable - former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under President Reagan, one of the people who most widely promoted "trickle down" economics, former editor of the Wall Street Journal, listed by Who's Who in America as one of the 1,000 most influential political thinkers in the world, and PhD economist - writes:

Obama’s new budget is a continuation of Wall Street’s class war against the poor and middle class.

Wall Street wasn’t through with us when the banksters sold their fraudulent derivatives into our pension funds, wrecked Americans’ job prospects and retirement plans, secured a $700 billion bailout at taxpayers’ expense while foreclosing on the homes of millions of Americans, and loaded up the Federal Reserve’s balance sheet with several trillion dollars of junk financial paper in exchange for newly created money to shore up the banks’ balance sheets.

The effect of the Federal Reserve’s “quantitative easing” on inflation, interest rates, and the dollar’s foreign exchange value are yet to hit. When they do, Americans will get a lesson in poverty.

Now the ruling oligarchies have struck again, this time through the federal budget. The U.S. government has a huge military/security budget. It is as large as the budgets of the rest of the world combined. The Pentagon, CIA, and Homeland Security budgets account for the $1.1 trillion federal deficit that the Obama administration forecasts for fiscal year 2012. This massive deficit spending serves only one purpose--the enrichment of the private companies that serve the military/security complex. These companies, along with those on Wall Street, are who elect the U.S. government.

***

The U.S. is determined to create as many enemies as possible in order to continue its bleeding of the American population to feed the ravenous military/security complex.

***

With a perpetual budget deficit driven by the military/security complex’s desire for profits, the real cause of America’s enormous budget deficit is off-limits for discussion.

***

The U.S. military/security complex is capable of creating any number of... events in order to make these threats seem real to a public whose intelligence is limited to TV, shopping mall experiences, and football games.

So Americans are stuck with enormous budget deficits that the Federal Reserve must finance by printing new money, money that sooner or later will destroy the purchasing power of the dollar and its role as world reserve currency. When the dollar goes, American power goes.

For the ruling oligarchies, the question is: how to save their power.

Their answer is: make the people pay.

And that is what their latest puppet, President Obama, is doing.

***

These goals [of propping up foreign dictators who serve U.S. interests] are far more important to the American elite than Pell Grants that enable poor Americans to obtain an education, or clean water, or community block grants, or the low income energy assistance program (cut by the amount that U.S. taxpayers are forced to give to Israel).

There are also $7,700 million of cuts in Medicaid and other health programs over the next five years.

Given the magnitude of the U.S. budget deficit, these sums are a pittance. The cuts will have no effect on U.S. Treasury financing needs. They will put no breaks on the Federal Reserve’s need to print money in order to keep the U.S. government in operation.

These cuts serve one purpose: to further the Republican Party’s myth that America is in economic trouble because of the poor: The poor are shiftless. They won’t work. The only reason unemployment is high is that the poor had rather be on welfare.

A new addition to the welfare myth is that recent middle class college graduates won’t take the jobs offered them, because their parents have too much money, and the kids like living at home without having to do anything. A spoiled generation, they come out of university refusing any job that doesn’t start out as CEO of a Fortune 500 company. The reason that engineering graduates do not get job interviews is that they do not want them.

What all this leads to is an assault on “entitlements”, which means Social Security and Medicare. The elites have programmed, through their control of the media, a large part of the population, especially those who think of themselves as conservatives, to conflate “entitlements” with welfare. America is going to hell not because of foreign wars that serve no American purpose, but because people, who have paid 15% of their payroll all their lives for old age pensions and medical care, want “handouts” in their retirement years. Why do these selfish people think that working Americans should be forced through payroll taxes to pay for the pensions and medical care of the retirees? Why didn’t the retirees consume less and prepare for their own retirement?

The elite’s line, and that of their hired spokespersons in “think tanks” and universities, is that America is in trouble because of its retirees.

Too many Americans have been brainwashed to believe that America is in trouble because of its poor and its retirees. America is not in trouble because it coerces a dwindling number of taxpayers to support the military/security complex’s enormous profits, American puppet governments abroad, and Israel.

The American elite’s solution for America’s problems is not merely to foreclose on the homes of Americans whose jobs were sent offshore, but to add to the numbers of distressed Americans with nothing to lose the sick and the dispossessed retirees, and the university graduates who cannot find jobs that have been sent to China and India.

And Ron Paul - who has very strong conservative credentials, and who won the Presidential straw poll at the Conservative Political Action Conference two years in a row - recently said in his CPAC speech:

We’re going to continue to bail out, we’re going to continue to spend the money, nobody wants to cut. I am sure that half the people in this room won’t cut one penny on the military, and the military is not equated to defense. Defense spending is one thing, military spending is what Eisenhower called the “military-industrial complex” and we have to go after that.

***

But let’s say government, as you all, I am sure would agree, is out of control, and it’s very hard for us to get a handle on it. So let’s say we even theoretically, and a miracle happens and we balance the budget where we are today, it would be still a disaster because we’re spending too much money. But it wouldn’t change a whole lot. When a crisis comes, guess what happens? Guess who does the bailing out? The Federal Reserve used $4 trillion to pass out without congressional approval and most people say “Oh, well that’s the Federal Reserve’s job to do that.” No, it is our job to check up and find what the Federal Reserve has done, audit them, and find out who their buddies are that they’re taking care of.

***

The Federal Reserve creates money out of thin air, they can loan to banks, central banks of the world, to other governments and international financial institutions and we’re not even allowed to know. They resent the fact that when I ask these questions, that they don’t have to give us information. That’s why the bill to audit the Fed is the first step to ending the Federal Reserve.

***

I think and I believe that we have had way too much bipartisanship for about 60 years. .... It’s the bipartisanship of the welfare system, the warfare system, the monetary system, the challenge to our civil liberties, it all goes through with support from both parties. So there’s way too much bipartisanship. This should be a challenge of the issue of philosophy – good philosophy versus bad philosophy.

***

But where I think we go astray on this exceptionalism is there are some people and sometimes they’re referred as neoconservatives and they’re sort of neo-Jacobins where they believe that we have this moral responsibility to use force to go around the world and say, “You will do it our way or else.” Well force doesn’t work, it never works.

Paul is also against welfare. Given his views on ending the warfare
state, bailouts, and reining in the Fed. I think, on balance, he would
make a much better president than Obama.

Comments

[KickIce]

"for one, unions do not negotiate directly with elected officials."

Too funny, one of the most frequent visitors to the WH is SEIUs Andy Stern.

Then you have POTUS blatently circumventing bankruptsy laws in favor of unions over bond holders.

[nmewn]

"Perhaps you may want to introduce yourself to the facts (where do I start)... for one, unions do not negotiate directly with elected officials."

Right, they negotiate with other bureaucrats...way to swerve into the obvious conflict of interest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RmKBFND9SY

[SRV - ES339]

Somewhere in there is a point, I'm sure, but I have no idea what it could be... it's Saturday night, and I have a life to go to... nice tune though (love me some Sly)!

[nmewn]

Government bureaucrats negotiating with other government employees on salary & benefits that the taxpayer ends up paying equals Family Affair (the music video).

Sometimes I speak in double entendres & metaphors...it drives the international posters here crazy cause they don't know what the hell I'm talking about...LOL. 

It's cool...you can't be all bad if you're on the Sly ;-)

SeeYa

[Terminus C]

Kind of like representitives voting themselves a pay increase?  Or maybe like the executive branch initiating programs or laws that benefit their corporate... uh... sponsers?

The whole system is corrupt.  There is no left and right there is only those who have power and those who do not.  Those who have prosper, those who have none are raped, such has always been in history.

[nmewn]

"Kind of like representitives voting themselves a pay increase?"

Exactly so. I believe Pelosi gave everyone a 10% increase across the board out of "shovel ready jobs stimulus".

"Or maybe like the executive branch initiating programs or laws that benefit their corporate... uh... sponsers?"

Right again. JFK's Executive Order on public employee unions was another.

"The whole system is corrupt.  There is no left and right there is only those who have power and those who do not.  Those who have prosper, those who have none are raped, such has always been in history."

I cannot disagree with any of that.

[Seer]

Unions actually REMOVED power from the workers.  The recognition of unions was another nice fascist act: govt helped out business.  Now all the workers CAN be controlled through a select few people.

I liked the way it was BEFORE unions, where workers could get together and threaten violence against the robber barrons.

To be sure, there are lots of great sounding stories out there that play into eveyone's pet ideologies.  It's so empowering to not be strapped to these strings...

[Argonaught]

This is well said.  You have read through the bs on both sides and hit the core issue.  Public sector unions can never work because the people they are negotiating with have very little to no skin in the game.    

[JLee2027]

George you have a fucked idea of what conservatives want.

We want a limited government, while you would make government responsible for all this "equity and justice" nonsense. No deal.

[Seer]

"We?"  Who is "we?"

Unless you and/or others subscribing to your group-think are lobbying against the (illegal) wars in the ME and against the military-industrial complex you're in no way "conservative," in which case I'd ask that anyone in such a postion stop using (discrediting) this term.

[rwe2late]

Contrary to what the arguments of some suggest, it is a question of priorities:

the trillion dollar bankster subsidies,

the health cost mark ups due to the pharmaceutical and health insurance industry

the global militarism that affects what is ultimately “sustainable” economically, both in terms of immediate spending, and the deformation of the economy away from productive investments to unproductive war making.

the upward concentration of wealth and power that hamstrings "democracy"

- Most would say the foregoing needs to be fixed.

The Power Elite say they will fix it, .....beginning with "entitlements" (benefits to the lower classes). The nation cannot afford to pay workers well, provide schools, fix the infrastructure, provide affordable health care, or pay pensions to the elderly. And those unions, they have too much "power", and set a bad example besides, so unions must be curtailed.

It's all about the numbers, all in the books. The government spends too much. It doesn't matter where, or on what. Don't look too close.  It just happens (according to the Power Elite) that worker benefits must go long before MIC profiteering, and certainly elderly pensions must be cut before TBTF handouts.

Who dares question the need to first cut such a red herring expense? Surely the elite can be believed, the banksters and the MIC will also be cut ..."someday".

[Seer]

I pretty much agree with your assessment, but it won't change the inevitable outcome.  It'll all crash because it's ALL predicated on perpetual growth on a finite planet.  Therefore, ALL unions, ALL corporations, GONE!  It won't be because some fucked up government official, or any lack of one, has caused it.  The outcome is certain, what's not certain is the timeframe.

[dcb]

I keep telling people to watch this video on you tube from larry king. he speaks to ron paul and michael moore. you realize they at least see the problems, but have3 different solutions. the elites of both parties won't even talk about or bring up what the real problems are. they use the cultural divide/ social issues to divide the poor and middle class so both parties can screw us.

[AR15AU]

GW, aren't we all supposed to be dying of gulf oil toxicity right now?  LOL

Anyway, as a liberal progressive, you have no ability to comprehend what it means to be conservative or right wing. It seriously makes you sound like an arrogant white kid writing articles for EbonyJet.com talking about how to be black.  

[MisterBig]

"aren't we all supposed to be dying of gulf oil toxicity right now?"

What makes you so sure we aren't?

[Terminus C]

exaclty, the gulf is fucked but it may take a few years to manifest.

[Seer]

OK, now that you've flapped your dick out there, lets see it!  Tell us all about it weapons boy.  What's it mean to be what you "are" (or whatever you think you're pushing).

[George Washington]

Conservative and pro-military-industrial complex are not necesarily the same thing.  Is Ron Paul a real conservative? is Paul Craig Roberts?  Are these guys (you already indicated they were)? WERE THE FOUNDING FATHERS?

[topcallingtroll]

I am against socialism and a huge military and interventionism. Sounds like the commenter doesnt understand traditional old fashioned republicanism.

[Lord Koos]

You mean like Ike, or Goldwater?  It's been a very long time since we had any Republicans like that.  

[Argonaught]

The founding fathers were not conservatives, not based on today's definition, anyway. They cherished individual freedom, feared the power of centralized government (although recognized its necessity), and were mostly athiest (on this one you, you have to do more reading than a high school text book).  That's 3 strikes against today's "conservatives".

The founding fathers were most like today's libertarians.  And yes, Ron Paul is a reasonable choice that should be available to the people of this country for the next election.

[Buckaroo Banzai]

They were NOT atheists. They believed in God. Many of them were Deists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

[High Plains Drifter]

The answer for now, is simple. Don't vote for anyone. The system is broke and cannot be fixed.

[Seer]

And, I'd add, it was broke from the start, pre-ordained to collapse in this very way.

As Buckminster Fuller said, don't look to change the existing, create something else and make the old obsolete.  But... if all the clowns want to waste their energies on "taking back 'their' country," then I guess I'll let them have the booby prize while I deal with reality and the future...

BTW - My last votes were for Ron Paul and Ralph Nader.  Only two folks on my ballots that had integrity and were anti-empire.

[High Plains Drifter]

I think you are right. It was broke from the start. It was all just one big lie. Hamilton is quoted as saying one time, it would take 200 years for it to collapse. He was a bit off in his calculations. It was designed to fail from the start. Again, agreed. There is no country to take back. We lost it , whatever was left of it, in the 500,000 dead from the war of northern aggression when the southern states, by legal constitutional means, decided they wanted out of the union. So when the beast system said no way, you are staying put and killed all those who disagreed with it, then the cat got out of the bag so to speak, about what the constitution really meant.  It probably never meant anything because many of the founding fathers knew the hearts of men all too well and knew full well the difficulty involved in being ever vigilent citizens. This we have not ever done really and probably never will. So they steal our money, they pass onerous laws and nobody so much as lifts a finger. Last year I changed my views on this stuff. I finally realized there is not much hope for this country. Perhaps there never was. Silly me to think that amerikans had some modicum of common sense. They don't. I used to have hope about it all but I finally realized after years of knocking my head against the wall, trying to tell uncaring and willfully ignorant people that I knew, about the stuff I was reading and trying to make them wake up about it all, and failing miserably, that there really is no use trying to tell them and/or arguing about it. What will be done , will be done.

[Terminus C]

This was the point at which the empire showed itself to the world, though it was there from the start.  One of the primary reasons for the Revolution was the desire of the Thirteen Colonies to expand westward which the British refused to allow (treaties with the natives).  The treatment of the natives by the U.S. was the first clue as to the true nature of that which was created in the name of liberty and equality.

Every war the United States has been involved in, has been an imperialistic war of expansion and dare not quote the attack on Pearl Harbor as unprovoked.

[Argonaught]

It was only broke from the start in so far as the constitution didn't have enough checks-and-balances in it to protect the people from their elected officials.  It worked fine enough for 100 years.  And it was so cutting edge at the time.  Can't blame the founding fathers...they were not omnipotent.  The next great country will have a constitution that will even further protect individual liberties.

[XitSam]

The teachers are not motivated by concern for their students, and only motivated by the thickness of their wallets. Otherwise, they would not have immorally, and probably illegally, called in sick to "protest" leaving their students without teachers.

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2011/02/at-wisconsin-protest-doctors-offer-...

FDR opposed public sector unions.

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2011/02/process-of-collective-bargaining-as...

Wasn't everyone supposed to not make Hitler references? Or does that only apply to Obama?

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2011/02/after-all-those-efforts-to-pain-tea...

And see how the protesters really care about the environment.

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2011/02/how-much-respect-did-demonstrators-...

[Lord Koos]

Education isn't charity -- teachers are paid to be concerned for their students. Public school teacher are paid less than private school teachers, so how do you figure they are only in it for the money.  Honestly, this pension issue is bullshit.  It solves no budget problems for the state, which were apparently caused by the governer giving tax breaks to certain businesses.  This is classic conservative strategy, kill revenue by giving perks to your friends and supporters, then claim the government is broke and incompetent. 

[Buckaroo Banzai]

Please stop spreading the lie that private school teachers make more than public school teachers. In fact, public school teachers make about 1/3 more in base salary alone. When you add in benefits, its probably more like 2x more.

Here are the FACTS: http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d09/tables/dt09_075.asp?referrer=list

[XitSam]

Please site a source for your claim that "Public school teacher are paid less than private school teachers." Include benefits also, not just salary.

As for the pension issue being bullshit, the central protest is over removal of collective bargaining for state workers. Try to keep up now.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_a05349b...

Who are the conservatives' friends and supporters, that are getting perks as you claim? I think the people should know, please help us out. And are you saying that Wisconsin does not have a budget problem, it can just keep giving the public sector unions all the pay they want? 

[Clycntct]

The house has all its doors and windows wide open.

Only problem is it's 0 out. So now You/some want to waste your verbal ammo on why it's wrong to close this door.

"Whether or not they are right is beyond the scope of this discussion"

GW I usually like your presentation but. To put info in and follow it with that pretty much takes away my appreciation of your integrity.

I added that but don't pay attention to it. Why you ask, well the north and south poles are reversing.

[Treeplanter]

A lot of BS, Jorge.  U ain't no GW, what arrogance to use his name.  We will roll back the National Socialists and their wannabe dictator. Tea Party on, boys and girls.  

[Seer]

Oh, yeah, "take back 'our' country!"  Seems I've heard this one before.  Ho, hum...

And then your plan is to do what?

As long as it relies on perpetual growth you're going to fail.  And when you're in control and when it's clear that that's what's happening, Then who are you going to blame?  Are you then going to do the honorable thing and commit suicide?  Or, should I help evolution purge stupidity?

[topcallingtroll]

It doesnt rely on perpetual growth it relies on stopping the parasites. Tea party on........for lack of anyone else willing to cut spending.

[SRV - ES339]

Thanks GW, well done... unfortunately, neither side can see the truth for the spin coming from both directions. This is clearly class warfare, but the ruling class have such absolute control of the dialogue, the majority of victims actually support the policies of the chosen "puppets".

Check out some of the interviews of the Tea Party crowd sent to Wisconsin (rent a protester?) to counter the protesters... most have trouble putting a sentence together in response to even a simple, basic question... they're against unions... 'cause Glenn says they are bad for America!

r.i.p. America!

[KickIce]

Beck is pro union but says that there comes a point when they overstep their bounds.

Thanks for playing.

[pvmuse]

Beck??? People here not only admit to watching Fox, but also use this crazy-clown douche bag as as an authority?

embarrassing, and sad

[SRV - ES339]

Ah yes... the "omnipotent Constitution" lover... the "Founding Fathers" were politicians, not gods!

[KickIce]

Way to start out with a straw man.

That Constitution made us into one of the greatest nations ever, don't blame it because we sat idly by while our elected officials sold our middle class and technology.  If we respected our freedom a bit more rather than watch DWTS or Sports Center, I say we are in a much better position today.

The Romans also had a Republic at one point and deteriorated from within.

[pvmuse]

Any time a comment includes "the constitution" you know something completely inane is going to follow it. 

Reagan and "the constitution" both make we want to gag.

[KickIce]

Easy solution, move to Europe.

[Seer]

Sadly, as long as we promote growth the end was always guaranteed.

[SRV - ES339]

It is what you make of it... yearning for a fantasy (it was a very difficult life) is just that my friend.

[KickIce]

Any fool can see the country has problems, but progressives feel the answer is more government.  I for one, am tired of seeing my liberties pissed away as each rule brings more unintended/intended consequences and more 3 daily letter government agencies in my daily life.  It seems the free market always gets the brunt of the blame over those who make the laws in the first place.

[Seer]

What's happening is fascism.  Pay attention!

And, speaking of Wisconsin, seems that the ONLY US Senator to have voted AGAINST the US(UN)PATRIOT -liberty-stealing- ACT, the "progressive" Russ Feingold got booted from Wisconsin.  How the fuck does this jibe with all your blather?

NOTE: Don't try pissing into the wind.  I can't be touched, as I don no stupid, constrictive ideology.  BIG = FAIL is all you need to know...

[George Washington]

Don't Blame Capitalism for Wall Street's Corruption and Lawlessness

[KickIce]

GW:  This is where your title is so wrong, there are many in this country that have little or no respect for what made this country great, The Constitution.  As I said before, there are many who feel that government is the solution to every prbblem and who want certain "rights" guarenteed from cradle to crave.  The division is more severe than ever.

[robobbob]

you start your article calling for solidarity, then spend most of it attacking conservatives.

How can nearly everyone at ZH agree that the longer the wall street day of reckoning is put off, the worse it will be, but unrealistic bloated social progams and benefit plans are exempted from reality?

framing cuts to social programs as heartless attacks on the "poor" is avoiding the topic. Like many union benefit plans, they are promises that never should have been made, and can never be paid for. They longer the cuts are put off, the worst it will be.

The bank bailouts should have never happened. wall street should not be bailed out. pumping stock and commodity prices does not create prosperity. They longer the cuts are put off, the worst it will be.

like the bank robber said, you rob where the money is.

well, $80T in unfunded vote buying promises is where alot of the debt is.

The MIC's spare jet engines are start, but only microscopic compared to what needs to be done.

[AN0NYM0US]

GW tilts left, he'd be a HuffPo fav if it weren't for the conspiracy themes.

The public service unions have screwed the taxpayers for years by holding them hostage while playing weak politicians who are happy to mortgage the future. The teachers are the worst with the US education system a disgrace. This is not a left right issue, it is one of greed and overpaid underworked public employees and a politician who is trying to stand up to them.