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$1,205 at last check and going much higher. The one place where buying the dips actually does work.
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Up,up and away ......................
++++++++++++++++
Yeah, but let's see what happens after the PM Fix, which is when the PAPER CROOKS hit the market.
Oh that the last sound these naked short bullion bank scumbags hear is the blade of a guillotine dropping as their sphincter control vanishes....
USD or gold that is the question. Now, before you junk me to hell please consider whether the risk on/risk off-trade is really dead?
I junked you for worried about being junked. It's hard to take seriously anyone who worries what other people think of him. Carry on, good man. Look foward, not back.
I'll refrain from the cursing of your stupid comment since your obviously long gold and got annoyed.
Don't sweat getting junked. I get junked a lot. Especially in the Middle East, danger in there Will Robinson!
Disclosure: I own 6% in gold and green FRNs in the safe too.
Rephrase: HIV or a temporary urinary infection is the question.
First you have to decide if gold is a risk on or off.
My thesis, they won't let gold get higher right now and USD is still the safe haven in bizarro world.
DXY has been very weak in the last two months but has held 80 which is a very significant level.
I agree only because cash and good credit is the best position in a deflationary environment aka bizarro world
"...cash and good credit is the best position in a deflationary environment aka bizarro world"
Cash is King. Gold is Cash. Gold is King.
Good credit means no bad debt. USD is all bad debt. Physical Au has no counterparty liabilities. Gold is King.
Regards
All of your gold=cash assertions fail to incorporate a reality called "liquidity"
Gold is fungible Abiggs. Lay off the fungi.
fungible - right....
Guess your whole gold=cash hypothesis ends here...
Well, it's really more of an existing fact than a mere hypothesis, but for kicks I'll humour ya:
How so?
I think it might be silver's time now.
The ratio (Au/Ag) is still so far off base that a correction in that might presage the bigger move.
A strong hunch and I've been in Ag (as in buying physical) last few months.
The coupled launch will happen on an initial move by silver.
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com
I would be extremely wary of silver myself, hard to see how in an economic collapse the price of an industrial metal will rise.
Gold, OTOH is possibly a safe haven.
The only reason to buy silver is because it is 'relatively' cheap, which is in my experience a very bad reason to buy something.
It's cheap for a reason.
I see your point. But then please explain to me why silver has often been used as a monetary metal. Just look at pre 1964 USA quarters, dimes etc as proof. Other countries have done so as well. Clearly the monetary authorities felt that silver had some intrinsic monetary value other than industrial applications to use it in coins. Otherwise they could use any cheaper metal.
Interested to hear your response.
I will try to answer. We are not on a bi-metallic standard and will never go back to one. Central banks have dishoarded silver. It's not in their plan for the future.
hmmm. It is my understanding that the Chinese words for "silver" and "money" are the same. If that is true, then which central banks do you speak of? The ones that used to have all the power but have fucked themselves silly with it, or the ones toward which power is inexorably shifting?
Is the Chinese central bank buying silver? I don't know. I know they are buying gold, but they (supposedly) only have a small amount, much less than the western central banks. If the numbers are true the west still has the advantage, in gold.
Good question....
I assume they will buy silver once they cannot buy (or cheaply buy) Gold anymore.
My ideas on the whole silver thing, which I'm open minded about:
- I've only started making gold/silver purchases in the last five years, if I have $5K-$10K of FRN's to get rid of, it will be gold, $2K-$5K it will be a mix, and anything under $2K is all silver - how many others of the middle class in the western world buy in patterns like these - if some westerners buy like that, think of the middle class in developing nations, like China, India, Brazil etc, the middle class who might have US$ stashed away or in bank deposits and are becoming uncomfortable about holding them, of course everyone would prefer gold but at these prices how much can the middle classes of these nations afford? And what is the next best alternative to gold?
- the charts show investment demand in silver has picked up substantially over the past five years, from virtually nothing to about 200 million ounces worldwide per year
- in the case where silver investment demand is increasing, a slowdown in the economy might be positive for silver, though there may be less industrial usage, as we all know about 2/3's of silver production is as a by-product or co-product of base metal mining, and if base metal mining slows down it substantially reduce the amount of silver being supplied to the market by miners
- the big question is the silver stockpiles, it seems these have being making up for any supply deficits for the past 100 years as silver ceased to be a monetary metal and central banks dishoarded and governments had huge stockpiles, from what analysts say these stockpiles have run out or are close to running out, I guess its obvious that the answer to this question will reveal the timing of any sustained pop in silver
Is the Chinese central bank buying silver?
Not that I know of, but the Chinese government is actively encouraging their people to do so.
In the pricing of gold and silver against other forms of money, both have an industrial supply-and-demand component. Right now there is long-term upward pressure on the metals' value against fiat (assuming you believe the global soverign debt crisis is just getting warmed up), and long-term downward pressure on their industrial value (assuming you think we're in the beginning of an industrial contraction). In this scenario, even if I make the assumption that gold and silver have equal social standing as money, silver will underperform gold due to its greater role in industry.
"It's cheap for a reason."
Within the terms of the recent paradigm, yes. Demand for it is an industrial one, as silver was demonetised in most places way before gold was, and the only pm that central banks store and deal in is now gold.
If however, it becomes a monetary metal once again (and the public vis-a-vis their purchases of silver bullion is voting with their wallets) then all bets are off for this ancient monetary metal, which is allegedly now scarcer than gold.
Hi Max,
For wealth storage you don't want something that is consumed in industrial process. The beauty of gold is that it is not destroyed. Otherwise we could use wheat, oil, anything.
I don't discount the possibility that silver MIGHT do well, maybe even better than gold, but it seems a very poor bet to me.
I just don't see why you wouldn't buy gold in a scenario of an economic collapse.
Why is gold worse than silver in that scenario?
Let's see, own paper when criminals control the printing press, or the other, real money?
I didn't junk you even though it was tempting. :)
We will see when the fog of war disapears. But I do agree, it's a brave bet after that sinister spike.
They will NOT let the fog disappear.
Agreed. The fog is the only substance we shall see for a long time.
It has been admitted by the powers that be that it's all about confidence. Or more to the point, it's a confidence game. So as the water rises to just under their chins and their desperation reaches panic levels, they will do anything.......let me repeat that......they will do anything to maintain the shroud of fog that obscures reality, helping those who wish to remain numb or blind to remain so, thus supporting confidence.
False confidence it may be, but when you have people extremely frightened or on a slow burn to hell, they will believe what ever they need to believe in order to sleep at night. Never underestimate the capacity of we humans for self delusion. Never.
Thanks to the plunge protection team we will probably be in the green in an hour...
fog, bitchez
I've come to the conclusion that any word, followed by "bitchez", works. It's the "bitchez" that's the spice that makes any verbal meal go down well. :>)
Cue fog machine #1...excellent...now, cue fog machine #2...very good...Cue fog horn...perfect!
rinse and repeat...
They only control the fog "chemtrails" over the U.S. The rest of the world is promoting gold in place of USD.
Perhaps you didn't notice the DXY headed down.
The USA Elite isnt the only shark in the tank, and while the global Elite have some interests in common, they are uncomfortable allies. While there are lots of sheeple for the sharks, they wont turn on each other, but at some point it will be shark vs shark as they compete for dominance.
There is not one plan, there are dozens, often at odds, and they change rapidly.
The only decision will be how to divide up the spoils.
If that's your question, Gold is the answer
Young... Gold IS money. Call it hard currency. Meanwhile paper dollars and now worthless change gets devalued with each passing few years. The United States mint can no longer make pennies out of copper, no more silver dimes/quarters/dollars. Even now they are crying that a nickle costs around 8 cents to produce because it uses copper/nickle. So the mint wants to make nickles out of something less valuable.
See:
www.coinflation.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_(United_States_coin)#Metal_value
Never said it wasn't?
Cool... game on :)
If manipulator,s weren,t hard at work what would the spike be ...............
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/8375/goldub.png
Manipulators? Please point to where you see any sign of manipulation in this move...
We've found that pointing the blind is somewhat futile mate
Prices spiking in the face of massive and highly concentrated short positions does not mean there is no manipulation.
Someone recently took delivery on 7% of the world's cocoa production, and everyone from the Europeans to the New York Times was screaming manipulation and market cornering. Well, the short position in silver is 35% of the worlds silver production, held by a single bank.
So yeah, if you can't see manipulation, then you haven't been paying attention.
Remember - Abiggs indirectly likes to remind people that he's more informed than your typical ZH reader by constantly asking questions that have been answered many times over... so don't bother answering his question since he doesn't really care for it to begin with.. for the umpteenth time..
so you won't invest in the US dollar because it's manipulated, but you will invest in gold?
Personally I'd never play in a poker game if I thought it was rigged.
Or to sell the peak depending on your perspective...
Disagree - gold isnt surging, USD is collapsing.
Agreed - check out crude and the euro in addition.
Both have terrible fundamentals yet euro is surging and crude is holding 81
Dead right. Not a lot of movement in £Gold and €Gold today. EUR/USD and GBP/USD on the other hand......
WTF just happened to the EURO? Serious upticks
yep, i got my doubts on this "gold going endless" idea. we're in global deflation. and markets have to adjust to reality eventually.
Today gold will do well in either inflation or deflation. The only reason why the U.S. Dollar was in short supply during The Great Depression (purchased & hoarded) was because they were internationally backed by gold. Hoarding U.S. Dollars was the same as hoarding gold.
Today it is not backed by anything so physical gold is needed.
USD is backed by being the only currency accepted by OPEC. US economy is intrinsically dependent on the power of the House of Saud.
The saudis could accept other currencies for payment. The argument that we would attack them is ridiculous; they would just line up a new protector first. Russia, China, the Europeans. Do you think we would attack EU forces in Saudi Arabia? No.
You think the saudis need dollars more than we need their oil?
nah.. your error is in thinking of the national interest of Saudi Arabia instead of the personal interest of the members of the Saudi royal family (the House of Saud).
The HOS have had a cozy relationship with the CIA and USA since WW2. The HOS need USD to buy guns and they need the tacit support of the USA and CIA to maintain power over their slaves (citizens of Saudi Arabia). From the POV of the HOS, there is no guarantee that China or Rus would want to keep the royals in power, they might just as easily install some other government. So thats why the HOS (the ruling power in Saudi Arabia) will not cross the USA, their priviliage, power, wealth and possibly lives depend on it!
Secondly, I think its understood that for the moment at least, while the US military is not equipped to fight against a guerilla force, they are well prepared to fight a conventional military force, such as the PLA or Russian Army. The USA would be able to bring their superior firepower to bear here and would likely be victorious in any standup fight for control of Saudi. It would be a bloodbath and likely the beginning of WW3. So its not worth it to the Rus or PRC to start the fight they would likely loose over a dwindling oil supply, essp since Rus has its own oil and PRC has Iran's.
The USD is an oil backed currency, and as long as OPEC are intimidated into using USD exclusively, foreign nations will require USD to keep their motors running. The PRC relationship with Iran and the Russians increasing self sufficiency (not sure about the import/export details of russian oil) are not potential threats to the USD as long as Russia keeps its oil for itself and Iran deals exclusively with PRC.
If anyone knows more about the oil markets of Mexico and Canada (and Venezuala) and if they accept Euro for oil I would be interested to hear.
the rold of gold in the usa-saudi-oil history is important but rarely discussed, probably because so little is known publicly about it.
the collapse of the oil price beginning in late 1985 was probably related to the imminent removal of marcos from power in the philippines and the coterminous removal of yamashita gold, both of which were done by the u.s.
in all likelihood, some of that gold was transferred to the saudis in exchange for the oil price collapse, as a down payment and a demonstration that physical gold would be forthcoming as payment for oil.
http://charts.barchart.com/chart.asp?sym=CLY0&sly=L&size=D&den=LOW&data=...
this is no ordinary market move; something profound had happened.
big events like this are usually "package deals". obviously the price collapse had implications for the u.s. economy and for certain u.s. political figures, but it was also part of the coup de grace that would break up the soviet union within a few years.
wow .. cool. Never heard of the Yamashita gold, and never considered the possibility of a gold swap for lower oil.
"After World War II stories emerged of vast amounts of gold bullion looted by the Japanese, and buried somewhere beneath the Philippine hills."
Rumor has it, Marcos found one of the treasures, then the US moved in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn8tY0RQeuU
The United States cut a deal with Saudi Arabia after Nixon removed the United States from the gold standard. U.S. proposed an umbrella of protextion if and only if you took dollars for oil. So in a sense we went from a currency backed by gold to one backed by black gold. If Russia can use Iran as a lever against Saudia Arabia to move the House of Saud into their sphere of influence then the U.S. is toast.
Great post, I clearly got my timeline messed up (thats what you get from piecing together world history from cereal boxes)...
How could Russia use Iran as a lever? I dont see why the Saud would care.
More wrong than right, I'd say. The HOS allowed oil to be priced in dollars. If you don't think those mind blowing numbers (previously) reported by the LBMA don't reflect gold on the move in relation to oil, then blinker on, my man. Gold in the ground for oil in the ground is the ultimate hedge, printer be damned.
yep. see #507090 above.
thanks for the extension... you are saying that HOS are taking part payment in gold right?
yes.
Check this: GOLD & MONEY: More Than Meets the Eye
Who owns the bulk of the worlds gold? The rich or the poor? Why?
Why did Nixon end the redeem-ability of US$ for gold in 1971?
Looked at from another angle, 1971 was simply a monster default.
If gold is just a commodity... technically it is. But what is its function? We know what we use wheat, hogs, copper etc for. But what is golds function? Store of wealth. End of story.
If you have some wealth that you need to store, you better get some.
LOL
Personally, I find the Kellogg's Frosted Flakes boxes to have the most accurate perspective on world history as well as current events, followed closely by Cuckoo for Coco Puffs. But that's just this sugar addled mid-life crisis person's opinion.
Now please excuse me, it's time for me to experience my sugar high crash and take my mid afternoon nap.
zzzzzzzz..........
Wasn't that the (real) reason Saddam was ousted - intending to trade oil in Euros? And isn't that also why Iran is being targeted - willingness to accept any coin for their oil?
We have this saying: when you see your neighbor's beard on fire, dip yours. In their case, keeping them dipped (in the dollar standard) is their only hope of survival, also because, unlike Iran, oil is everything they have and will, in any foreseeable future.
Iran is accepting Yen from Japan for oil. Russian's export they can accept anything. Venezuela too.
How many times do countries need to say they no longer see the USD as the reserve currency of the world for you to wake up?
I am pretty sure these are all recent development (say last 5-10 years)?
The perception of the USD as a safe haven is just a bad habit, a conceptual shortcut for lazy fund managers, which is also a somewhat self fufilling prophecy as long as they all do the same thing.
But it feels like the tide is going out on the USD, and ex-FED monetization and backdoor deals with the BOE on swap lines, that less money is comming into USD on each risk on/off cycle.
Im not asleep, but there are many POV which shape the world.
Your country is on fire, and just banned wheat exports.
Lots of possibilities, i dont think gold infinity is going to happen :)
Part of it is supply and demand of Gold vs Fiat. As ppl want gold more than they want fiat, and as the supply of fiat is exponential, its likely gold will appreciate in fiat terms.
The fiat = fail meme is catching on
You seem confused and contradict yourself.
i know that i do not know :)
But there is no contradiction in my post above. I state that i dont think gold is going to infinity, but that there are reasons for it to go upwards. I hold physical, I think it is a good investment, but I do not expect it to be worth brazillions of fiatscos.
Who are you, imposter?
At this stage, the gold argument becomes religious. Invest as you see fit. I'm long gold.
"At this stage, the gold argument becomes religious"
How original...
"markets have to adjust to reality eventually."
/hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha/
Marathon: /hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha/
That is the best comment!
"Reality?" Which one?
Do I get to pick? Yes I do!
/omg/
Yea, but Rooskie, when paper stuff deflates by 90% and gold only deflates by 25 or 30%, owning a healthy physical position (at home, via Goldmoney, or via PHYS) means one has a chance to maintain anything close to their existing lifestyle
In all times and in all economic condtions, gold IS money. Paper is only paper.
Price of gold on Sep. 10th, 2001, the day before Osama bin Subcontractor attacked us because he hates our Freedom Fries: $271.50. Current price of gold: $1,211 - up 346%.
S&P 500 on Sep. 10th, 2001: 1,093. Current S&P 500: 1,121 - up 3%
This does not take into account the dividends that one would have gotten from owning the stocks but I doubt that it would make much difference.
Gold up 346% stocks up 3%
Comrade peasants, we have been at war with the horrible terrible Islamo-fascists for almost nine years. Show me one war in all history without an increase in commodity prices or an increase in the desire for gold, just one.
PS: I knew some Ruskie spy would infiltrate ZH sooner or later. I think somebody should shake him down to see if he as a camera for taking pictures of Robotrader's graphs.
Buying dips in the s+P works too.
Until it doesn't.
So the Euro just made a new high for the week, now can it make a new low? Worth a shot. Buy stop above right above the high at .86
Fade that fucking euro, fade gold aswell, the manipulators aren't finished...
Tell us something we don't know. But what is your shelf life for these comments? The ground is shifting under the anti-gold cartel's feet...
Be careful with this sort of thinking. Remember when 1.30 was tested and rejected like 8 times before moving to a fresh high of 1.326?
Well, it was like jumping in front of a bus... First, like has been the tradition, the dollar got hammered before resuming the safe haven course, but of course by then the PPT jumped in and put fuel on the fire. Tight stops saved me several times. Giving it one more go, but /ES must start falling. Unfortunately all I see is large green volume bars...
"ES must start falling" - I disagree.
DXY must start rising...
More or less the same thing if you look back the last couple of days.
Not quite because DXY moves ES but not the other way around. I understand what you're trying to get across though...
If anyone questioned that the market is driven by currency moves, then today should be a wake up call.
GBPJPY -
GBPUSD +
GBPEUR -
GBPCHF -
Wow ... USDJPY at 85.15 ...
AUDJPY 78 -
Serious risk off in currencies... EURCHF undecided, big volatility
Nice. I presently see a nice little gap up on my gold chart.
Looks like somebody's defending $18.50 silver pretty hard. Wonder why. Maybe its Blythe "Don't Panic" Masters et al.
No doubt the crooks at JP Morgan and the crimex boys are manipulating it higher today to further their evil plans of world domination.
Hey Bri, it really sounds like Thawtless has crawled up your butt.
No-one is bigger than the market. When we have abysmal job numbers like today, gold can't help but go up, and the dollar can't help but go down. The manipulation happens, but you don't necessarily see active price manipulation every day. If they could manage that, it would mean they were bigger than the market, which is impossible.
They keep retreating to higher ground. The manipulation is less effective than even a year ago, all that "deflation" and they only knocked about 8% off the price.
Rebounds are a bitch. Going over 1300 sooner than later.
Duplicate
Worried Banks as no physical Silver to cover contracts ?
Seriously? Where did you come up with that bit of information - your back side?
Oh right, where on earth did anyone come up with a crazy idea like that?
Anyone that doesn't understand [that] the Comex is a manipulated illusion isn?t paying attention. More and more investors around the world are coming to understand this, which is why there is a movement into the physical. Real gold versus paper gold. Which do you own? - Michael Krieger, zerohedge.com
So.... what you are trying to say is that Comex is a division of JPM or one of the other "Banks"?
Not really, it's just that JPM serves as their warehouse, so they could in fact simply SAY that they have the silver, and that they are keeping it for them.
If you think that's crazy, you don't know your (recent!) history. http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1228014520070612
Listen - I'm not disagreeing that the paper market is manipulated. But you and the other guy that jumped on my comment took it out of context. I simply disagree that the "Banks" can't cover their paper silver positions. The banks have larger positions to worry about aside from silver contracts. And if you think that's crazy, then YOU don't know your recent history...
It's obvious that you're a gold bug/long gold and playing a rigged game, I wish you luck. It's not too late to cover/hedge your positions...
Watched the old movie "rollover" just now. Getting deja-vu here...
Gold is ok until September 23rd. Wheat is better.
Wheat will get you through times of no gold better than gold will get you through times of no wheat.
Why choose? Own both.
snowball: quit stealing your rhetorical style from The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers.
But seriously: heheh.
Regards
I'd rather have the gold, personally.
You can buy a lot of corn, rice, barley, millet, sorgum, fish, beef, chicken, etc even when there is no wheat.
Of course, I have 200 lbs of the stuff in storage, so it doesn't really matter to me.
+1
Gold. The only safe harbor in uncertain times. The one true global currency. The shaft of sunlight in a darkening world. The shining path to new tomorrow.
Gold's rally will last about 15 more minutes until the paper market opens.
You may well be right -- it looks capped now. Here comes the cement!
PMs were taken down in anticipation of the upcoming rush to QE2, which seems to be in everyone's interest all of a sudden (DC wants a pre-election stick-save, Wall street wants another injection of heroin, and the Fed is a bit freaky about their actions not having the desired impact). Mining equities have been strongly accumulated on recent dips by big money more than willing to relieve weak hands of their holdings (look at how the juniors in particular have been sneaking stealthly upwards). It would be nice to think the end-game explosion in PMs would take down some of the manipulators, but in all likelihood, they will be positioned to profit most; they run both sides of the game, not just the downdrafts.
Don't fight it, just be sure you're along for the ride.
i told you. :>
so GOLD BIATCHE$$$!!!
10 yr prints below 2.86...
Truly amazing.
best indicator that this move will have follow through is that they let stiglitz out of his slave box and started parading him around the msm yesterday...
.75 bid. SOLD, SOLD, SOLD
Lets suppose that the Comex paper-price manipulators have the power to set the gold paper price to wherever they want it, every day. And that they can rely on tacit approval, even support, from the big buyers, including the sovereign wealth funds of China, Russia et al, known to be aggressive accumulators (because as accumulators, they can exert the comex price direct on the foreign mines with whom they have supply agreements).
In this scenario, where the manipulators set the price at whim, what then would be their paper price criteria?
The criteria for a low price, for the West, is to protect the fiat money confidence trick. For the accumulators, the rationale for a low price is self evident.
There are still though, criteria for the manipulators to allow higher prices;
- Supply: It encourages physical gold to flow back to them through the scrap gold channels.
- Supply: It needs to cover the mining costs of a critical mass of the gold mining industry.
- Demand: If the oft-touted ‘insignificant’ retail demand for physical (that’s us) cannot be met, and shortages occur, and street values diverge from the Comex price, then the Comex scam can fall apart and a run on physical can occur. Raising the price, lowering the price, steadying the price, can all encourage physical demand, depending on public mood. However, allowing the price to rise to new highs, facilitates dramatic price smash downs to promote fear of a bubble, make the weak hands despair and give up, and to exploit and manipulate the followers of technical analysis to defer demand. Even serious retail accumulators will wait when they think the market is giving them good signals to do so, and makes the likes of Johnny Bravo appear credible and technically correct in dismissing gold’s prospects.
- The pressure exerted on the gold price by silver supply/demand is a special factor, since ammo to fend off demand for physical silver is scarce.
Right or wrong, the scenario I describe is consistent with the stairs up, elevator down, but long-term upward trend of the gold price. It does not change the big picture of where the gold price is ultimately heading, but might help modify expectations of how the price will behave in the short to medium term. If none of the four criteria I mention, are barriers to $800 gold at a particular point in time, then $800 we will get. Did I miss any?
Good summary. And they can't really hit the price ($500) because it would cause too much physical accumulation. In the end though physical will set the price when paper sellers can't deliver to physical buyers.
Thanks ITG; my line of thought was set when the Euro crisis erupted, and Gold suippliers in South Africa were describing the unprecedented demand from their German wholesale customers, which they were frantically trying to meet.
It struck me that supply demand pricing dynamics for physical were missing, and that the price for physical was being determined far away in a paper la-la land that was not even a party to the transaction.
Agree with MAX and ITG above, COMEX is potentially set up for the mother of all bank runs.
That is the consensus among us gold-bugs, but that isn't what I was saying with that post. I was saying that the big players who have the power to crush the crimex, have no desire to do so, as they exploit the crimex price to fleece real mine production. They get their real gold elsewhere. The price has to be high enough to pay the producer a modest return, but no higher.
Public retail demand for physical is a minor but constant pressure on the crimex price. We can lift that price (they have to respond to our real demand) but so long as they respond to it, we cannot crash them. Their games will continue for some time. Only a currency crisis stampede is really going to move that price by hundreds of dollars.
Yeah, I was just parroting, good analysis. So ur saying there is interest in keeping paper gold cheap to be able to use that price to purchase physical off market?
as far as the big players are concerned, yes.
Until the big boys finish accumulating, they will probably help under-write the crimex shorts if necessary. They are all batting together.
Like the saying goes, when you own physical gold, you are fighting every central bank in the world.
max, thanks for your comments. the COMEX game is: bend it, don't break it.
and a few miscellaneous items: i notice seven consecutive higher lows on the daily chart. that's not too common. also, FOMC next week. potential for the announcement to send gold higher, so maybe a takedown before then is in order. question: will bernanke procrastinate in order to hurt the democrats in november?
(double post).
QE to infinity. More stimulus coming. Market knows it. Stocks and PMs going higher.
Glad to see gold jumping higher, but prefer not to obsess over my position, so back to making ammo.
Gold is your friend right here as we enter into rocky times. The news today from all parts of the globe indicates that governments are no where near done destroying their currencies in the name of "recovery". Japan announces more easing. Euro zone never really finished easing and now is showing signs of economic slowdown. US QE2 is stepping much closer. China is eternally stating that stimulus must be maintained. Even Canada and Australia are sputtering. The churn may take a turn. For the worse. And signs of inflation within our deflating economies are now rife: the bad numbers on employment in the US came today with oil remaining above $80. Wow. Other commodities have been soaring, especially ag. Safe haven seekers are running out of yield in Treasuries with new record lows being broken every week.
It will come down to what do you trust more: gold, the "currency" that bridges all others, or the Bhat, Lira, Peso, Ruble, Dinar, Sheckle, Pound, Punt, Krone, Yen, Euro or yes Dollar?? Gold now being accepted at most swank clubs in Vegas where dollars are really worth nothing.
Oil is above 80 because the DXY has been very weak, same goes for gold. Just check this morning's DXY, crude, euro, es, and gold action after the bls report.
As soon as our European counterparts miss an interest payment or something of that sort happens outside of the US boarders, get ready for dollar strength like you've never seen. At that point, deflation will start to aggressively price in. Only cash and credit will survive everything that's inversely correlated with the dollar (crude, gold, etc) will get crushed.
Look back to 2008 for an idea.
As you see today, cash (Dollar) is no longer seen as a safe haven. Can you imagine?
Market analysis is clearly not your strength.
Right back atcha Abiggs: TA is obviously not your forte. The DXY is in the process of forming a massive H&S top. Your precious dollar needs to break 83(ish) and hold that for weeks to leave that pattern behind. Otherwise...
As far as the whole FIAT-race-to-the-bottom thing goes you'd be better served to watch the USD against the Norge Kroner or the CAD anyway.
Watch for Au to rise on any DXY second-shoulder-forming 'bounce' too over the next couple of weeks. I call that action 'divestment while the divesting is good'.
All IMHO, natch.
Regards
Apparently you have missed the frequent breakdown of the inverse correlation of gold to the dollar during periods of dollar strength.
Foreigners no longer see the dollar as the absolute safe haven it once was, and are slowly turning to gold. This trend is not likely to reverse, as suspicion towards currency, once awakened, develops insomnia.
"Apparently you have missed the frequent breakdown of the inverse correlation of gold to the dollar during periods of dollar strength."
tmosley, I've tried pointing this out to the Abiggs before, but he just can't/won't see it.
Regards
Boys and girls observe: http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/1769/dxgold.png
The last 6 months contradict your statements.
Find a chart that dates back to late 2007 till present and you see further evidence of the contrary.
Deflation is the name of the game and rudimentary economics should suffice to prove that long cash and credit & short commodities, stocks, and pm's is the only position to take...
"Deflation is the name of the game and rudimentary economics should suffice to prove that long cash and credit & short commodities, stocks, and pm's is the only position to take..."
Oops, the last part of that falls to the ground if gold=cash. Which it does. Gold then becomes King. Also, 'good credit' implies lack of counterparty risk, which rules out your precious USD. Gold is again King.
Also, contrary to your assertion, the charts do not contradict the observation tmosley and I (and many others) have made. The inverse relationship more or less still exists when DXY is sinking, oui. Where it is showing definite signs of breaking down is when DXY is rising. Try removing from your charts the egregious paper Au takedown events in the 1-2%/ten minutes range, and you shouldn't be able to miss it. Just like the prime example I pointed out to you weeks ago, but you ignored, proving that you can "lead a horse to water, but..."
Sorry to burst your FIAT bubble.
Regards
Skunky, I appreciate your enthusiasm but gold=cash only in your imagination. Also, once counterparty risk prohibits participants from rolling over their dollar guarantees, dollars (not gold) become the liquidity source of last resort. Your utopian gold hypothesis fails to comprehend the liquidity aspect...
Also, you pointed out (weeks ago) that gold has been trading in line with the dollar. "more and more often these days Au spot moves with the USD, and not inversely." Now you seem to be going back on your words...
You are either deliberately misinterpreting my comments or...Well, I hope for your sake it's intentional.
As a rule I try not to repeat myself, but for the sake of clarity on this thread I will point out to you, again,
"...more and more often..."
doesn't mean the relationship is over yet, it's just an indicator that it may well be breaking down. Like, say, worldwide confidence in the reserve quality of a certain FIAT currency...
Guess what that means in the case of a debtor offering Au in lieu of USD as payment. If the 'Au as a fractional reserve' argument has any merit, I'd bet most creditors in dire need of masses of the actual metal required to meet their current demands for delivery would be willing to 'work something out'. No?
Risk of repeat: Gold is fungible.
Regards
What will become clearer and clearer: "The Adults" stepping in to scoop up paper assets in declining economies showing signs of inflation will soon experience existential angst as faith in the paper fades and then is lost. When the existential phase of revulsion is hit there will be a stampede for gold.
At .80!!!!
10 yr prints 2.84, stocks rally from lows... the dissonace is mind-melting...
Wait for it...
This will soon be explained. The new rationale is that yields are so low that money has to go into stocks, especially high-dividend stocks, as "investors" search for returns.
Wait for it...
But, but...YOU CAN'T EAT gold!, so sell it before it goes to 200! Sell it now or it will go higher and I will look like an even bigger Jackass!
JonnyBravo! where are you? Help me please!
i cant remember if you are being ironic or not...