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The ECB Blasts Governmental Fear-Based Racketeering, Questions Keynesianism, Believes The Fed's Powers Are Overestimated
In what could one day be seen by historians as a seminal speech presented before the Paul Volcker-chaired Group of Thirty's 63rd Plenary Session in Rabat, the ECB's Lorenzo Bini Smaghi had two messages: a prosaic, and very much expected one: of unity and cohesion, if at least in perception if not in deed, as well as an extremely unexpected one, in which the first notable discords at the very peak of the power echelons, are finally starting to leak into the public domain. It is in the latter part that Bini Smaghi takes on a very aggressive stance against not only the so-called "inflation tax", or the purported ability of central bankers to inflate their way out of any problem, but also slams the recently prevalent phenomenon of fear-mongering by the banking and political elite, which has become the goto strategy over the past two years whenever the banking class has needed to pass a policy over popular discontent. The ECB member takes a direct stab at the Fed's perceived monetary policy inflexibility and US fiscal imprudence, and implicitly observes that while the market is focusing on Europe due to its monetary policy quandary, it should be far more obsessed with the US. Bini Smaghi also fires a warning shot that ongoing divergence between the ECB and Germany will not be tolerated. Most notably, a member of a central bank makes it very clear that he is no longer a devout believer in that fundamental, and false, central banking religion - Keynesianism.
First, a quick read through the "prosaic" sections of Bini Smaghi's letter.
Bini Smaghi, who is a member of the executive board of the ECB, has a primary obligation to defend the ECB's public image in this time of weakness and complete lack of credibility. And so he does. When discussing the ECB's response to the Greek fiasco and contagion, he is steadfast that the response, although delayed and volatile, was the right one. Furthermore, he claims that the hard path Europe has set on is the right one, as it will ultimately right all the fiscal wrongs, even without the benefit of individual monetary intervention. Ultimately, the ECB is convinced that not letting Greece fail, either in the form of union expulsion or partial default, was the right decision, as "this sill force euro area countries to address their fiscal positions earlier. It’s not easy. But it will be done, because it can be done and it has to be done in any case. And, last but not least, because there are no alternatives." Alas, while we agree that admission is the first step on the road to recovery, the subsequent steps will prove to be insufficient. The imbalances in Europe are of such great magnitude that hoping that countries eventually grow into their balance sheets by way of austerity is simply a ridiculous assumption, and as such does not merit extended overviews. We note this with irony, because apparently the ECB, contrary to elementary school rule #1, favors quantity over quality. As the ECB board member says:
Let me consider the arguments put forward by those who regard a Greek default as unavoidable.
Their first argument is economic. The adjustment programme is too harsh, given the level of the debt-to-GDP ratio reached in Greece. It will produce a debt spiral which will lead the country into a recession and deflation. The problem is made worse by the loss of competitiveness suffered by Greece over the last decade and the impossibility of devaluing the currency. Their reasoning is generally no more sophisticated than that. Some analysts have put together a few numbers to show that they are aware of the problem. But I have not seen a serious analysis of the 120-page report produced by the IMF which looks at the various aspects of the programme, including the impact of the structural measures on growth, the sustainability analysis or other features of the programme. Not one review of the realism of the assessments made by the staff of the IMF and the Commission. In fact, I suspect most market analysts have not even looked at the adjustment path for the primary surplus which is embedded in the programme, which aims to reach 6% of GDP in 2015, a level no different from the ones that other countries in the past have implemented to consolidate their public finances. It’s a level that a number of other countries – including some outside the euro area – will have to achieve if they want to stabilise their debt. Most market analysts and other observers have probably not even looked at the structural measures that are embedded in the programme, affecting for instance the labour market, or at several liberalisations, and their impact on economic growth. The inefficiencies in the tax collection system, which have been aggravated before the elections, have also been overlooked. The perception that the Greek programme will not work looks more like an assumption than the result of a serious assessment.
To summarise, I wonder which analysis is more serious and credible: the many one-pagers, very well publicised – I must admit – which probably aim to influence the rest of the market; or the IMF’s 120 pages of rather tedious analysis describing the contents of the programme, together with its risks.
To this we ask: if a collective brain trust is charged with the goal seeked, and well compensated by taxpayers, duty to put together a 1,200 page report that confirm the primary tenets of the trust itself, will Mr. Smaghi give it 10 times the credibility of the ECB's report? Or how about one million typewriter-armed monkeys putting together 1,200,000 page "analyses" claiming that the Greek default is inevitable? We hope someone has the facilities to conduct just such an experiment. Perhaps the futility of such a simplistic act is the very reason why not more than a one-pagers is required to refute the central bank dogma.
Thus the key axis of contradiction emerges: the ECB is willing to set off on the "demonstratedly" arduous journey of forcing its member states to right their fiscal (income statement) evils, yet while not acknowledging that the key missing link, balance sheet restructuring, is not necessary but critical. There is a reason why plain vanilla restructurings focus on the balance sheet, and not on the income statement: a company with a fresh start balance sheet can grow its income statement without its debts being a hindrance, on the other hand, rarely if ever, do income statements allow companies to grow into untenable balance sheets. This is the main flaw in the ECB's plan. And it is these very contradictions that force the European populace to lose its credibility in the ECB, a concern which even the central bank is all too aware of.
The balance of the "prosaic" part of the speech is along the same lines: merely a defense of the ECB's line of actions, driven primarily by a direct response to the market, and thus a very short-sighted and reactive, instead of proactive, policy response, which merely invites the market to test out the ECB's lack of resolve. And once again, the ECB is not naive and is fully aware of this, yet it redirects attention to other source of "market-test" weakness: "Financial markets are testing each country, one by one, to see whether they are willing to adopt the necessary budgetary measures, starting with those which seem to be facing the greatest hurdles to consolidation." Bini Smaghi is right and wrong here: the market will continue testing country by country, but not to determine fiscal resolve, only to take advantage of the lack a monetary one. And so from crisis to crisis, the market will continue reaching deeper until it finally tests the very core of the eurozone: Germany.
And speaking of Germany, this brings us to the other part of Bini Smaghi's letter. In one of the first open shots of public confrontation, we see that the ECB has been very much displeased not only by rampant fear-mongering, but by the words of Germany's Angela Merkel, whose recent repeat declarations that Greece could be allowed to leave the union, have undermined the bedrock of the ECB. Furthermore, as the WSJ reports, "in a rare show of defiance for the consensus-driven ECB, Germany's
central bank head Axel Weber told the German newspaper Börsen-Zeitung
that he viewed the bond-buying decision "critically" and that it
carried "substantial stability risks." Is this the type of rancorous infighting between Europe's two main powers, that will seal the fate of the Eurozone experiment far more certainly than parliamentary stormings in Athens?
We read in Bini Smaghi's letter the first fingerpointing of displeasure by an ECB official aimed squarely at Germany:
A further dimension, in the European context, is the difference in cultures and sensitivities. They affect how issues are communicated within countries, in particular between politicians and their electorates. These are differences which totally disconcert financial markets. For instance, in one large euro area country it was thought that public support for swift action could be achieved only by dramatising the situation, for instance, by telling the public that “the euro is in danger” or by considering the possibility of expelling a country from the euro area. But it was not realised that, in the midst of a financial upheaval, such words are like fanning the flames and that the cost of the support package could only increase following such dramatic declarations. By contrast, in other countries, leaders want to be seen as being in control of the situation and taking all sorts of initiatives to reassure their electorates. The media, of course, have a field day reporting on such apparently inconsistent activities.
We hope that the ECB's displeasure by the kind of racketeering that Americans have grown to know and loathe, as it is performed either openly by politicians who directly threaten with end of the world scenarios every time they wish to get their way, or indirectly, such as when the market crashes a 1,000 points when it appears that the Fed is on the verge of losing its secrecy, is espoused by more individuals and organizations. On the other hand, we will closely follow the now open feud between German and Europe's Central Bank - if past experience is any indication, infighting between these two will only lead to mutual weakening, and result in an even faster forced reorganization of peripheral European countries, and, eventually the euro.
In this regard, perhaps Bini Smaghi's speech created far more damage than damage control: now that the public's, and more importantly, the market's, attention is be drawn to the duel between Germany and the ECB, this will merely destabilize the monetary union even more, now that monetary and political unions, and conflicts, are synonymous, a point not lost on the ECB executive himself: "As I said earlier, monetary union is de facto a political union."
And now that European monetary "politics" are the center stage, we find two other pearls in Bini Smaghi's speech.
Not too surprisingly, the ECB is now directly pointing a finger at the Fed, where conventional wisdom has long held the belief that due to its ability to determine independent monetary policy, backed by the world's reserve currency, the Fed can and always will easily inflate its way out of any complication.
To believe that an inflation tax can solve the problem posed by the mounting public debt is an illusion that some people like to cultivate. For several reasons. First, people are less naïve than some might think – they dislike an inflation tax as much as other forms of fiscal adjustment. Second, it’s not so easy to generate inflation, in particular ‘surprise’ inflation, without provoking a more-than-proportional increase in interest rates, also in light of the short average maturity of public debt in most countries. Third, a rise in inflation, and inflation expectations, would produce a major upward shift in the yield curve, inflicting major losses on the banks and financial institutions which have been heavily investing in these markets, potentially undermining the recovery.
This is probably the best encapsulation of the threats, or rather threat, that another QE episode by the Fed will bring with it. In essence the ECB is saying that should the Fed pursue another QE episode, the imminent explosion in short-end interest rates will lead to a solvency crisis within the US itself, monetary policy or not. Bini Smaghi points out one very critical truth: in not having a reserve currency, and thus protected by the belief that the ECB can inflate its way out of complication, it is forced to pursue fiscal reform, much sooner than the US will, which will only result in a much greater crisis in the US, once it becomes clear that the marginal influence of monetary policy will be drowned out by a sea of fiscal imprudence. And for the one true shining example of the latter, look no further than the CBO's 10 year budget deficit estimates.
In short, the impossibility of resorting to an inflation tax is forcing euro area countries to tackle the burden of public debt sooner rather than later. In other countries the illusion of being able to resort to the inflation tax might delay the adjustment, but the longer the treatment is postponed the harsher it’s likely to be. End of digression.
Was this the first shot across the bow in the the transatlantic central bank wars? Too bad the ECB will be insolvent overnight if the Fed decides to truly escalate and pull all its swap lines tomorrow. Why risk retaliation? This is easily the most important question needing answering over the next several weeks.
Last, but not least, are the following zingers that have no other intent than to poke at the ever larger holes appearing in the fabric of that one modern false economic religion known as Keynesianism.
In the aftermath of the Lehman failure, governments around the world seemed to rediscover Keynes. They injected huge amounts of borrowed money – public funds – to stabilise the economy after the shock of the Lehman failure. These policies worked, and averted a global depression. The success of those policies has led governments – encouraged by international organisations – to continue using expansionary fiscal policies to try pulling the economy out of the recession and getting it back to the pre-crisis level.
The strategy is based on a model which may turn out to be inappropriate in the current conjuncture. Let me discuss some of the underlying assumptions of the model. First, the initial fiscal impulse was successful in avoiding a depression because it helped to coordinate agents’ expectations, in the Keynesian or Knightian way of reducing uncertainty, thereby avoiding a vicious circle of recession and deflation. The direct impact on domestic demand may have been more modest, as shown in countries where the size of the fiscal stimulus was more contained but nevertheless fared equally well. Second, potential growth might have been severely affected by the crisis. As a result, the pre-crisis level of output, achieved in a bubble economy, would not represent a sustainable objective over the policy-relevant horizon. Third, the level achieved by the public debt in many countries may have impaired the effectiveness of further expansionary fiscal policy.
To sum up, while the fiscal expansion was successful immediately after the Lehman crisis, it may not be sustainable over time and may have to be corrected rapidly. Financial markets seem to be giving increasing attention to this hypothesis. And they have started to test it.
Is this the last degree of "religious" doubt before outright revulsion set in and the oligarchic heretics emerge? More so than the question of whether or not the euro is viable, is whether the beginning of the end for Keynesianism is approaching? If so, the imminent revolution in Western world economic thought will be unprecedented, and the resulting global reset will lead to a world where daily news will no longer be dominated by headlines about more record banker theft going unpunished, co-opted and facilitated by a cheaply purchased legislative, executive and judicial system.
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Do you ever feel like you're surrounded by people who are either zombies or lost souls? People who tend to behave within normal parameters always seem like zombies to me, whilst others have fallen too far into the rabbit hole, maybe. Then there are those who, for whatever reason, have a gift for navigating this border we speak of. Gotta watch out for 'em though cuz they do spend a lot of time exploring rabbit holes and returning with some crazy ideas.
i googled A zombie is a creature that appears in books and popular culture typically as a reanimated dead or a mindless human being.
a mindless human being, they try to run you over. i have never ever seen so many mindless people lately. people don't even look up. well granted i live i a pretty upper class town. rich white people (especially woman) have the lowest hanging heads. man, they got the weight of the world on those shoulders, i guess.
lost souls, perfect. graves and graves of lost souls. don't even know what they are suppose to do with their damn brains. think, look up and see where your going, would be my recommendation. of course, i do shout at them to get their attention.
very good assessment:
mindless souls
mindless human beings.
well, as the buddha would say, just feel sorry for them and get along on your own path†
The sheep look up. Actually, a very good book. I'll have to re-read it, it's been awhile.
lol, yes, but ya know, it's like art. YOu have to look at a lot of junk before you find the rare and beautiful pieces. And things that seem insane now, can seem perfectly normal later. I always enjoyed talking with some of the theoretical physicists I ran into. Honestly, I don't know how those people stay sane. A lot of them I knew drank -- a lot.
which makes the precious things in life precious.
cheers
Yep, Malthus said that too. All 'dem limits to growth. Let's see, increasing wealth limits population (EU-Zone). AlGore agrees with you that you should limit your life(style).
I'd say, you don't get to define what "quality of life" is. Neither no clue as to what "sustainable" is.
Good deflation (computer gets me the answer in 10 sec vs. people with worse answer in a week) is not a death cult.
But your implicit assault on total population certainly is.
-Ned
The number of people establishing a direct causation between number of people and stress on their environment is baffling.
Without the Internet, I'd still be unaware of some people's tendency to neglect themselves as the cause of an issue.
Perhaps you should be asking: "Is the surface of a planet the right place for an expanding
technological civilization?"
I have stated on this site numerous times a plain and simple fact:
The time has come for the US to destroy the Euro to buy time for the dollar
The US must destroy the Euro so, the US will destroy the Euro-
The US banks are broke, the Fed is broke, the Treasury is broke
and the dollar's position as reserve currency has come under attack
The US is so weak and its government so corrupt that its legitimacy may come into question;
the US governing elite can no longer afford the risk of any competition for the dollar
the exclusive ability to print money will be maintained at any cost....
riots in Greece---BFD!!!
better than riots in NY and DC if you're the US elite
The US never wanted a viable competitor in the Euro
It is widely known that the Fed financed Soros' destruction of the pound and thereby sabotaged the possiblity of the UK joining the Euro
Wouldn't it be simple enough if we just removed our military bases from Europe and got out of NATO?
Seems that would put an end to the EU and the Euro pretty quick.
Joseph Cotterill has a decently cutting rebuke to Smaghi's feel-the-width bluster over at FT Alphaville.
Good read. Smaghi is on point with some of his observations, but it does make one think that a big part of his approach may be redirection.
Continental Europeans posture and assume an unjustified air of cultural superiority. In this case, the ECB envies the Fed for its ability to inflate its way out of trouble: U.S. debts are denominated in U.S. currency and a lower proportion of wages and benefits are inflation-adjusted. So the ECB uses a peculiar arguement that therefore the U.S. will get itself into greater trouble than Europe, since we "have to face up to our problems". Damn right you do.
Inflation envy? lol, perhaps something else more testosterone related? Jeez, its all a joke, it is all imploding, not sustainable. Malthus described it well.
srry, double post
It's worse...the ECB's debts are also in dollars. We are the reserve. We underlie them.
What the ECB needs to do is to start printing their own dollars or else just sterilize ALL dollar debt in the EU like the Chinese do with the yuan.
Fucking PRINT IT. Either that or now is the time for China to step up with the RBOC's massive dollar forex and become a liquidity provider in competition with the Fed.
That latter thing would be highly interesting were it to come to pass. In 2008, I kept asking wtf are they waitin on?
Trav
I agree the Fed is a bunch of fuck-ups. Defending the purchasing power of the greenback has long been out of vogue.
But the competition is a choice of which of the ugly sisters do you get to date.
China is cowering behind the greenback because any movement up or down relative to the USD will kill the Chicoms.
The falling Euro is going to strangle Chinese imported crap-the Euro has collapsed against the USD, in turn making Chinese crap more expensive in Europe (Chinas largest market).
Timothy Geithners sucking up to the Chicoms aside, and the new Ipad aside, China is now totally beholden to the U.S. They are damned if they do and damned if they dont.
China, the infantile nation that it is, is afraid to let the Renminbi float. Tiananmin Square times 1000 is not what you want to wake up to, in the morning, when you are a Chicom party boss.
The USD is the least ugly of a bunch of ugly currencies.
And the great Chicom communist worker slave factory experiment will continue to be propped up by the great Capitalist worker slave retail experiment- Walmart.
Smaghi is a politician...
this is Kabuki...
he has to protest so that when it all goes down the Italian mob isn't looking to hang him from a lamp post..
he just wants to make sure he can enjoy that stash in Lugano
What he's saying doesn't even make sense--
the US controls the IMF.
+ 24Kt.
FUCK BP!
Amazingly, no one is ever willing to refute any rebuttal from a TD-authored opinion.
I highly doubt it is because none of them have ever heard of/seen this website.
Noone who? It happens here all the time. We all have learning to do, some people (like me) have more than others.
Mr. Neuman
please go back to Spy-on-Spy
None of us acquiescing ZHrs dare question the Intellectual Party Boss(es).
Except Marla, of course- she has always got it wrong.
But then, she is only a gerl.
That these past and next few weeks and most especially weekends will prove pivotal to the restructuring and rebalancing of elite power is just now being realized... both within and beyond these realms
Now we will all bear greater witness to what shape sovereign power will take and what its relationship to the society it governs and vis a vis. Most especially with respect to the private centers of accumulated wealth who hold themselves separate and apart from such trivialities as subservience to sovereign power. While these focused private centers of money power are held by their relentless drive to complete self destruction through total encumbrance of the sovereign power their actions have rendered impotent and dependent. In this perhaps Lorenzo Bini Smaghi has come to appreciate that the IB/CB model at its core is just like Hitler in that the acolytes and proponents of IB/CB supremacy will flood the subways at the end since it is the sovereigns and their societies (themselves included) that proved unworthy of submission.
I have to wonder at the level of Cognitive Dissonance Lorenzo Bini Smaghi must be suffering as a main anchor of belief in this Central Bank centric structure while waking up to what being that kind of servant actually means for the whole of society and the exercise of sovereign power.
Miles, stop, you're scaring the children! Truly, how sociopathic are all these people? Very.
Sociopaths are "pussies" to these folks that through their actions aspire to achieve punk status in their life time. A punk being those in an all male correctional environment that gain their sense of status, protection and wealth from selling sexual favors to their fellows.
miles, be gentle, your talking to a new ZH inductee.
a female engineer, who calls herself, Kali.
welcome her nicely, dear.
Velo, no prob. I took no offense, I agree with him. They do make the worst sociopaths look like pussies. Believe me, in my life I have run across much scarier things than Miles.
velobabe - Kali obviously is an aware Fight Clubber. I am sure Kali knows that the "s/he" need not be is scared of me just as Kali knows that Fight Club is all about awareness. The last thing I suspect Kali is interested in is cognitive niceness, especially based upon newness or gender. :)
Kali - Welcome to Fight Club !!
Thank you, naturally inclined that way, thanks for having me. The thing that sucks about awareness though, ya realize how stacked the deck is, that old red pill/blue pill thing. And it is "she", by the way.
Since you missed my previous posting of this... since I think you'll enjoy it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1s1BkjLj84
M I L E S, that video link is good for a blow job from me, when and if we ever meet†
I loved it, had me rockin out in my seat. My other half is getting suspicious though, thinks I'm initiating cyber romances. LOL.
cyber flirts, confirmed†
Yes, mind blows are great. The best of everything starts in the mind! And, apparently, on ZH. Kinda offsets my anihilistic pessimism. :)
Since I am a 100% disabled veteran perhaps it is better you know my take on Johnny's classic adaptation of this historic writing form John Wilmot. For me, my goodness has been defined by the tapping of: Keys, Kegs, Goldman Sachs of pixie dust and willing females within human society that have reached maturity. I suspect that you are looking to do what you must for you as well. Cheers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzIT67dBkSc
we don't discriminate here on zero hedge, babe.
it is all good†
fun, the M I N D, that is all we got,,,, Miles.
the mind, mind you†
pretty damn powerful, this human mind.
maybe, scary for some, don't think i have a lot of compassion for that deficit.
each persons problem, gov't can't take care of the mind. that is the beauty of this crisis,
represents to me, anyway.
had to deal with my mind at a very young age. think i got it under control.
basically, i get to do whatever i think i want to do, any moment.
very liberating. that why i don't wear a lot of clothes, if i don't have to†
Totally agree. Kudos for you Velo, I am not even close to fooling myself that I have my mind under control. (wha? huh?) But then, that's the beauty of it. And, Miles, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, in a different reality, in a different physicality, we may indeed, already be lovers! lol.
May? Now THAT'S pessimism!
And velo, I have found meeting the Jehovah's Witnesses at the door in my birthday suit works wonders. Even if the God I most resemble is Buddha. Although I get the impression that meeting folks this way at the door is nothing new to you. So much the better when dispensing with the preamble is desired. Dance regardless since dancing is usually better than attempting to control the mind.
Hoo ha! love the JW tactic, i will have to try it! No qualms about nudity and bodies, that is a hang up of "civilized" societies. We are all gods and goddesses. Sorry about the may, being a scientist and all, it's mostly about probabilities of the possibilities. :)
Understood. That's why I shamelessly used it you engineering scientist philosopher goddess you. Remember, I am a analyst of sorts (the veteran siting on his front porch, watching the world as it goes by, or JAFO for short) and it is a real rarity for me to speak in absolutes about anything. I can recall only one time in the past two or three years when I have said; "I KNOW"... about anything. Life is indeed filled with possibilities and hoped for probabilities. Remember, no apologies for being human in human community there goddess. Now, back to the moon garden. :) peace Try this out..
http://radio.cl.zerohedge.com/
And because I know you wanna know..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hopscotchposter.jpg
So what do you get when you breed a JW with a Hells Angels
It will still be Red & White !!
Indecent exposure much?
Good way to end up on the offender registry; the JWs bring kids around to proseletyze.
I call bullshit
Call whatcha want trav. I can look out the window first fool... I am not the one knocking on other peoples doors
hey, Miles we are all Johnny Depp, if we want to be.
he was the spokesman, cause he does it so well.
that helps, the delivery, the impact†
obama, seemed to be the spokesman, we where fooled, again.
There's only one Johnny Depp, and that's me. Go be someone else.
But please do see my next movie.
has the mental illness we are discussing now become transference?
Someone's daydream... since much of the Ponzi is predicated upon transference and coveting based greed.
I liked the other avatar better, FWIW
F U C K Y O Ut
just wait.
This one's still not doin it for me.
You'll have to try harder if you want my validation and approval
O K t r a v i think i like 7777777777777777
maybe, looks like a broke dick†
i like your finger,
imitation is a compliment.
The great economic run of the Nazis was financed by printing special Deutsche bills of exchange in conquered countries (requiring local banks to exchange their currencies at a fixed rate). Nazi soldiers then bought anything they wanted in the local market and sent it back to Germany.
And of course, financing was made easier by the plunder of other nations.
Perhaps we could send back some of the useless Chinese crap to China and ask for a refund. You know- the reverse of the original transaction- send them some useless short term crap in exchange for cancelling long term debt.
Waddyathink - would it fly
im all in favor of the return/refund. i return, get a refund, everything. american people forget about the return/refund option in life.
fuck them, i return the last bite, that sucked. they give you the money. we have been so dumbed down, people in america think they have to accept crap. expensive crap too.
make an impact and fucking return everything that wasn't promised, it is actually fun.
i don't buy anything any more cause i can't stand, to stand in line with middle class people.
We already send a lot of our garbage there. They break it down, recycle it and toss the rest. Horribly polluting too.
Clinically, seriously, without a doubt, no hesitation, to the max, compleate, in total, to the end, never a moment's hesitation, no need for considered counsel or alternative opinion, perfectly, absolutely, undeniably, unequivocally, manifestly, criminally sociopathic.
In many other professions, they'd be considered misfits, savants, disturbed or perhaps, retards. But none the less, dangerous. Maybe 5150 under CA penal code?
Agreed knuckles. Supervised some of the most sociopathic minds confined by time and I am sure there is a place beyond the hold & "assess" provided by 5150...
I think that the elevation of many of these folks is a result of greater society being unwilling or unable to face the greater torment of confronting the lies and distortions used by the sociopath to attain and maintain greater power and control..
Awesome comment !
Yes, denial is a very strong medicine. I prefer the strong medicines that make one googly.
Never bet against a sociopath [individual, corporation or government] for his judgement is not clouded by morality and emotions. He is determined, resourceful and intelligent. He is a machine operating on pure reason.
This is just a little FYI I know from personal experience. Mind you; this is a good form of sociopathy with no urge or will to employ violence. As I said; operating on pure reason with no ambiguity to cloud his actions.
Cheeky, the fact remains that sociopaths are governed by their interpretation of their own lack of humanity in relation & context to others expression of their humanity. This inner conflict is what drives those that make it to the top of that particular pile and provides their greatest weakness. Attempting to find "pure" reason within the human condition, most especially the "pure" sociopath only leads to greater and greater cognitive dissonance as the whole of humanity becomes less that the scared rabbit awaiting their next torture, the sociopath themselves.
Everyone is guided by interpretation of reality; that is a non-issue. What I meant to say is that most of the people tend to react based on their emotions, which lock out most of their reason and you have a society structured not upon the logical conclusions of the observed phenomena, but on emotional reaction[s] towards those phenomena.
There are conflicts in each and everyone of us; but some manage to minimize the doubt which those inner conflicts represent. Doubt is, to me, equal to fear; and fear is THE MOST powerful suppressant of meaningful action. Reduce the noise which your emotion[s] produce and you will be two-eyed king in the land of the blind.
Agreed. Completely.
I have discovered through my observation of a whole host of these folks, individually and in closed community with other like minded individuals that their interaction and processing is influenced to a far greater degree than you suspect. In this context is key as the true sociopath does care, for themselves, a favored pet, their car or some other object. The sociopath that has gone beyond this aspect of the world being filled with items whose sole purpose is to serve the sociopath's pleasure to a place where the sociopath looks at themselves as one more of these inanimate items is the real, rare deal Cheeky. And once they get to this place they are zeroed out completely by their own personality.
Cheeky!
You sound like a fan of Ayn Rand! You're describing her characters to a tee...
One of her criticisms was that people are ruled too much by their emotion. And that emotion is what allows you to fall prey to sociopaths like the ones you speak of.
Her answer? Become a sociopath!
No.
Im not describing what I find desirable or beneficial to society as a whole.
I am describing to you the essential profile of the top 1% and what it takes to get there [that is; if you are focused only on accumulation of material wealth and nothing else]
As for me being a fan of Rand; imagine the biggest NO. Ok, now multiply that by 10000.
Thats how much I'm not even close to Randian [puke] "teachings" [which I elaborated a week ago under one of the, more commented on, articles].
She should have been an abortion; and if not that; than, at least, better educated in the filed which she used to promote her intellectual garbage.
baby, i am an abortionist,
had 5.
what would i be today, if i didn't have some fuck doc that believed in pro choice.
i was the last woman to bear 5 fuckin children and know what to do with them, cause i was a fucking fertile fuck, and her mother never told her about adam and eve†
D'oh! I just figured it out - you're the village bicycle!
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=village%20bicycle%20
Number 6 Is the most accurate. :)
ya fuck you frank†
guess what i would never of fucked you FRANK, never.
your the kind of man that takes away my spontaneity.
frank, guess what†
one got out, had a daughter, she's beautiful.
VB, I am so sad that you would never fuck me, but not about the time lost in the waiting line.
i give it up, F R A N K
maria sharapova
justine henin
beyond words, as the e p i t o m e
hands down the most beautiful creatures alive, everyone is so lucky to watch sport when females are allowed to display our true nature, at it's best†
maybe your mom was not upto date with the possibilities
dumpster, your tempting.
After 5
did ya finally figger out where they was commin frum
i had a birth control Kayman
they are only 99% fool proof, fuckin IUD's.
believe me, i was a fertile fuck.
You are an asshole. Apparently the men didn't figure it out either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL1fibjPMKk
yeah, just think about it.
buddy, where are other things in life to think about, other than credit default swaps, CDS or naked shorts or derivatives.
F U C K all you men, you have no idea about life.
listen to this video, understand stuff, you fucks†
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltwxC19s5u8
slinky........ IUD
got it heph†
You my dear are a misguided soul.
brilliant, jethro
you were my idol my whole life, with your big feet and all†
D I R T Y L I T T L E S E C R E T
-you bastards
Females born into L I F E
2, just two choices to sustain duration (volition)
of ones' life:
1) don't get pregnant.
2) try or get pregnant.
that was my G U I D E†
probably every other females' as well, had to be,
to survive.
simple---------->stupid
I read that thread. Loved it. It's why I jerked your chain there.
I am still a little unclear about where you stand on Ayn Rand though.
But I do agree with your assesment that if you can remove emotion, then you're the two eyed man in the land of the blind statement.
dude, if i could throw a dagger towards your heart with
you be dead, babe†
Let us not assume too rapidly that soicophathy is a virtue. A sociopath can still be wrong and he will unlikely recognize the error and as such he will also not sufficiently re-examine assumptions. If these people do not succeed they do not fail they crash.
We are all food to the lions.
Bingo!
And while I'm a fan of Ayn Rand, I don't agree with everything she said. She did however, make a lot of good points. Not sure that I would want to live in her world though.
I don't think anyone is advocating sociopathy. I believe it was a dissection of sociopathy. One thought though, "where cooler heads prevail"? Doesn't mean the cooler heads are right. They just believe they are.
Sociopaths like to keep things cool because it makes their victims the most vulnerable. Anyone can kill under extreme passion and white hot hatred. But only the sociopaths can do it under i'm your friend, let's talk this out, kind of situations. I'd have to disagree with Miles in that sociopaths aren't really pussies they are just the epitome of passive aggressive. Only the aggressive comes out in a tactical counterpunching fashion. In other words they try to get you to start the fight to take the blame for the fight. Another adaptive survival technique.
Pussies in way of their deceit. Although, they may not be aware (i think, i am not a psychiatrist) of their deceit. However, yes, I can see how "the epitome of passive aggressive" would be considered sociopathic. Joke here, isn't that called "diplomacy". :)
Well, having been married to and now divorced from a sociopath, I think I can speak to this.
Never bet against a sociopath. They are "ruthless" and "cunning" in the sense that they don't think the way you and I do (assuming you're not a sociopath). They don't have, for lack of a better word 'empathy' or maybe even better, a 'moral compass'. They're really not ruthless and cunning in the objective sense, but since as was commented above, they are passive aggressive, they get you to start the fight, they get you to lose your cool first. And, I've often noted, the reason a normal person loses their cool with a sociopath is that the passive aggresive nature is so irrational as to appear insane.
The only thing that you can do with a sociopath is to avoid him or her, and for God's sake, never work for one or let one into power.
But I think we've passed that point. I think we only elect sociopaths these days. But just the dumb sociopaths. The smart sociopaths run the banks, oil companies and health care companies. They, of course, went for the most power.
Well when they are being irrational is when they are probing for control points. It seems irrational but it's really just systematic purely scientific probing.
Yep. Just so ya know, my comment was simply pointing to the over the top nature of today's supercharged versions of the traditional sociopath. I contend that there is a whole new breed of these folks and they are being instructed to achieve ever greater levels of purity of essence. This continuing process of "socializing" sociopathic behavior has brought us collectively to where we now find ourselves since this level of behavior can no longer be simply buried by our collective conscious.
I agree. I think we're breeding sociopaths now.
It's the new Growth Industry!
evolution can be so scary. that's why i refused to reproduce. Personally, i think we are not only breeding super sociopaths, but our degraded environment has affected us also. We are breeding mutants nothing like our descendants. Think, like the jump from neanderthal to cromagnon. Now, why would natural selection follow that path? Does not bode well.
An absence of God will do that.
lol, i luv that whole last paragraph, "we only elect the dumb sociopaths", perfect! And, yes, brilliant sociopaths are much to be feared, have met quite a few in my life.
Your comment #381728 shows the best understanding of the sociopath, in my opinion. I'm constantly exasperated by people who idolize the mafia and other sociopaths. Those people are the worst vermin in the world and this tendency to romanticize them is lunacy.
There was a good book written by Martha Stout called "The Sociopath Next Door". This book was panned by critics because the author seemed to over-estimate the number of sociopaths in the population--something like 1 out ot 20. However, it's a must read! She shows how to recognize a sociopath and what to do if you are involved with one.
Basically, sociopaths are LIFE RUINERS who also happen to be pathological liars. They prey on people who are insecure and unsure of themselves. In the final anaylsis they are EVIL, period.
A problem in our society is that we watch all kinds of films and documentaries about these people, but when someone has actual experience with a sociopath, he/she is more than likely not to be believed. There is a complete disconnect between what happens in films vs the real world and people seem incapable of making the connection. Perhaps that's why people are so incapable of reacting to evil until they are pushed to extremes. They just can't believe what they see, hear, and know.
It's time to wise-up about these evildoers who more often than not are right under your nose. This is not something that only happens to other people, like starvation in Africa.
+1!
When I was in college I majored in mechanical engineering and minored in psychology. I used to tell all my friends in psychology that we are all engineers some of us just don't know it yet. I used to tell my engineering friends we are all psychologists some of us just don't know it yet. The only thing the world has to offer is an opertunity to apply senses towards either the physical medium we exist in or towards the psycholocal makeup of how people choose to put themselves together.
A psychiatrist is simply a person who declares, I think I got this figured out. While an engineer is a person who declares I think I got this figured out. The problem is that people don't follow the rules of nature. They can generate energy they don't receive and recieve energy they don't generate. Something the physical medium can't do. So the better you get at understanding the physical world the better you get at engineering it. But the better you get at understanding people the better they get at obfuscating and insisting on alternate characterization.
Without emotion, you'd never act on any thought. In fact, you'd never reach a logical conclusion without making assumptions based on basic sentiments since no system of logic can supply a proof of itself.
Your attempt at solving this famous problem is quite amateur and a bit lame, being that you're so critical of Rand. I'm no fan either, but there are obviously worse philosophers out there.
I know, saying that I doubt your philosophy is, in your mind, the equivalent of saying I fear your philosophy. To you, skepticism is bad. One must have faith in your logic, right?
Rage against the machine!
Kali, i think we got a foursome†
OOOOO, I like kinky sex! Seriously, I wish I knew some of you in real life. Smart people make me horny! :)
ditto, that is why i am here.
these men's words will blow your mind, if you follow them.
men, keyboarding†
an incredible phenomenon for our times.
i believe, so far as i have experienced, this is as good as it gets†
Yes, mind blows are great. The best sex starts in the mind!
And ends there as well. Gotta guide the mind back into safe harbor while the physical process of jellofiction completes itself....
You know whats funny about what you just said is I call a lot of aspects of certian movies, songs, and plots mind masterbation. Basically its all the feel good stuff, like happy endings, really loud epic music during a fighting scene, slow sorrowful music during a kissing scene etc.
I have no idea how this topic even came up in the first place...I think veoblade started it!
v e o b l a d e
thats a spin on my name
i like
v e l o b l a d e
blade, kinda like dagger†
velo started it, it's her fault.
that's all i heard my entire life, it's your fault kathy†
no hazing policy applies to you, bastard.
plus:
Jesse's Café AméricainGood form of sociopathy? They will slime around every issue or argument because they have no firm position on anything. Everything they do is focused on gaining attention to prop up their image of self importance because they are empty inside. To say they are not emotional is understandable because it appears that way but I feel they are filled with hate, envy, and insecurity. Strong emotions indeed. Calculating. Absolutely. They rise to the top because they have two sets of rules, one for us and none for them. They value nothing but themselves and they will go out of their way to destroy all good things that get in their way, even their own families. Like an immature child, when they fail to get positive attention, they will seek the other kind. They are sick people.
Hollow Men...study of serial killers.
But let's stick a fork in the freaking Potent Directors Fallacy that everyone on this site seems so infatuated with.
How many times do I have to say they kiss ass to get where they are? Do any of you people work in corporate?
Ben Bernanke is just a fool, not a sociopath.
ONLY Sociopaths get to the top !
Say you are a "normal" person in an outfit such as the CIA. You are given tasks that you find are morally repugnant. You now find yourself in a situation where you either lose your sanity or resign.
For the sociopath, no problem. In fact you perform the distasteful task so well you get promoted.....Especially considering al the normal people resigning all around you.
Ergo only sociopaths get to the top !
No they let completley harmless people who preach to forgive the sociopaths to the top too as long as they say what the sociopaths tell them to say.
It starts when they are middle managers. They are put in a position where they must perform an action or make a decision for the 'good of the company.' The decision will compromise their morality. If the result is a success they show they can be trusted and are capable, and the sky is the limit. If the result is a fail (for example, it causes a huge oil leak in the gulf) then they are thrown under the bus. On the other hand, if they choose to do the 'right' think, they are marginalized and their career is over.
"....It starts when they are middle managers....."
BULL SHIT.....! It starts on the day that your mommy dresses you up in that cute little pink or blue outfit and shows you off to all her friends. You are trapped from that moment on through the rest of your life.... You develop an insatiable appetite for the approval of your peers and society and at that moment, you become a really bad trader. Why....? Because you will pay for an ounce of approval with a ton of flattery. You will seek recognition and prestige where there is none and everyday for the rest of your life you will see yourself as a failure.
In this world you are either a mugger of a muggie. Pick one. Middle manages, vice presidents, CEOs, live a life of desperation.... I say "jump" and they say "how high?".... You might say that they are well rewarded for it, however, how much would it be worth to live a life of indignity...? It's universal, it's here and in China, it's pathetic, however, it works for me.
Ciao,
Econolicious
PS Thanks for the incisive post Tyler....
There is a big difference between selling your soul and seeking approval. If I want you to get me coffee I'll bother with a few platitudes... If you live long enough you'll see it in action. In the meantime read this:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870411350457526472110198502...
touché, to all of the above.
Great word brother Kendig
marc faber doomfest: 'the banks are gone'
http://www.lewrockwell.com/faber/faber66.1.html
more faber:
http://paul.kedrosky.com/archives/2010/05/marc_faber_mirr.html
He's correct the Fed is packed with fools doing the bidding of the banks. It's time to audit as we dismantle them completely and for good.
I put somewthing like this on seeking alpha:
"As a result, the pre-crisis level of output, achieved in a bubble economy, would not represent a sustainable objective over the policy-relevant horizon. Third, the level achieved by the public debt in many countries may have impaired the effectiveness of further expansionary fiscal policy."
but i talked aout how the fed wants to acheive normal libor, ted spread, etc., that the normal was never really a normal but distorted and hence everytime these numbers are normal we know we are in a bubble.
let me be clear, although I don't stand behind the ecb. I already know the fed won't change. the reason is simple. the fed is under more control of the banksters than the ecb. therefore the prescriptions carried out will only benefit the banks regardless of the outcome. banks prefer the boom bust cycle, inflation tax. wouldn't you if the system socialized your losses. sustainable policies would mean the end of bailouts. they woud limit your income. hence we had no real financial reform and the federal reserve has done nothing to help in sustainable reform.
Dumbledore was right: "Harry, soon the time will come to choose between doing what is right and what is easy."
A headline on a column in the Times OnLine today:
Investors who value a good night’s sleep can flee to the dollarBest to set the alarm before you go to sleep.
"Do you wish to know whether that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion--when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing--when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors--when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you--when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice--you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that is does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot.
"Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it bounces, marked, 'Account overdrawn.'
Francisco d'Anconia
I'm pretty sure Cheeky would agree with this.
Dapper, one of my favorite quotes, good to see it again, now and then.
I'll drink to that !
Bravo!
Smaghi has been desperately talking Italy's book for months. I can't believe anybody listens to him. He talks tough... from a position of insolvency. Not going to take Germany's divergence anymore? What a laugh. Like the Greeks and Spaniards, he's trying to line up with the French, who encourage the South to believe Germany will pay, and French rules will prevail in the EMU/ECB. Good luck with that one.
The conclusion of article seems to claim that we are in some sort of worldwide Keynesian
utopia which is about to be undone. .Nothing could be further from the truth
Matter of fact for the last 30yrs starting with reagan,we have been in the world of the ever shrinking Government and ever loose regulations
Of course this crises has brought the Keynesians back to reckoning,but i suspect it is only going to be for a short spell. . possibly till the Nov elections
After that u will start to hear more of cutbacks and aims to balance budgets and buzzwords like PAYGO. .
As for the ECB vs the FED . . There is no contest there as i will always place my bets with the FED
The ECB has always been slow to act and is often encumbered by the unwieldiness of the EURO Zone experiment
For all the flaws inherent in the FED,they have managed to engineer a recovery. .DOW Jones 6600 - 10,000+ in a year is pretty impressive,even for the naysayers on this site
sometimes people forget that the wealth effect gotten from rise in equities is a pretty strong force especially in market economies
so Zero interest rates for an extended period of time,rising stock markets,backdoor recapitalization of banks,will lead to an increase in consumer spending and a self sustaining recovery in the long run. . .hell we were half way there before this greek tragedy hit,witness $85 per barrel oil. .
and i do somewhat agree with the ECB on the hysteria about greece,no one knows for sure how this will all end. .so i am less inclined to pitch my tent with either the naysayers or with the cheerleaders
Even if the Dow falls back to 5000(or S/P 666) u cant go wrong being there to scoop up cheap equities like GOOG. .AAPL..or INTEL. .VISA. . u know companies with a boatload of cash and those u cant do without in the world,as long as we still have a need for computers and the internet
So fight the FED if u must,as for me i will be taking things one day at a time
THE WEST AFRICAN CHIEF
Is this CNBC?
An increase in the prices of equities are by no means indicative of a recovery or a healthy economy. Securities are just pieces of paper. Real quality of life is declining. People in the US have to work harder for less than in previous generations - at least if they live in desirable areas.
Problem: The level of the DOW has become disconnected from the "real economy". I have always loved that term -- "real economy". That means that We The People are what is actually real, not a calculation of the "value" of stocks which, for the most part, don't even pay a dividend. Remember dividends? That is how to value an investment. Return on capital.
The hoped for Return of Capital has become another symbol of the fed engineered age Rocky.
"sometimes people forget that the wealth effect gotten from rise in equities is a pretty strong force especially in market economies"
The effect only happens when you sell it chief.
In order to have monetary wealth, a sale of "something" must happen to unlock the "value"...it's not even fiat currency until that point...it can however be digitized for your viewing pleasure ;-)
"Matter of fact for the last 30yrs starting with reagan,we have been in the world of the ever shrinking Government and ever loose regulations."
This statement neads much more explanation. What I see is more government, not less. As it stands the statement is utter crap. (I'm trying to be polite !)
The EEC and the UK have huge armies of bureaucrats built up over the last few years. Australia also. Australia is the most over-governed country in the world. It is Parkinson's Law. I would be amazed if there were fewer bureaucrats in the USA than in Reagan's day. One of the main reasons we are where we are world wide, is the sheer size of government with the ever-growing (non productive) public sector sucking all the juice out of the (productive) private sector.
...the sheer size of government with the ever-growing (non productive) public sector sucking all the juice out of the (productive) private sector.
and McNews prints that 47% don't pay Federal taxes:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2010-04-16-editorial16_S...
they neglect the population in all levels of Gov't. So the dreaded private sector contribution amounts to just over 40% "pulling the wagon"
- Ned
Yes, reminds me of Jackson Brown's video of "lawyers in love", armies of suits carrying briefcases invading the planet. Of course, now, it's probably Blackberries and Ipads.
The State is something too dangerous to be left around.
What must a guy who stole his way to the top do when he acquired 90 pc of what could be acquired?
At this point, glamourizing theft is counter-productive: he is the one who has the most to lose through theft and there is nothing much left to acquire. Theft will be much more productive in the hands of his rivals. For him, keeping praising theft is like painting a target in one's back.
So the guy has to ban theft. He has to bring discredit on theft. He has to write new history to show how theft is evil, omitting how theft is the cause of him owning 90 pc of the whole stuff. Time to freeze the status quo.
Nothing different with the State. The Western world has rised thanks to the State. Big issue, the Western world is now limited in expansion by physical limitations. It is time to bring discredit on what caused the rise: the State.
The State is no longer as profitable as it was for the West and will be more profitable for other nations.
Time to freeze the status quo. All the discussions, especially from US citizens, revolve around maintaining the status quo. Some good old recipes have run their course for the US. But not for the others. Outlawing the good old recipes is the only way.
"The State is something too dangerous to be left around."
Oh cool, another anarchist.
"All the discussions, especially from US citizens, revolve around maintaining the status quo."
Don't get yourself all tied up in knots over our desire for common thieves in corporations & government to be shackled to a post in the public square and have rotten food thrown at them before being sent to jail.
You think the Eastern cultures have some lock on morality, justice and virtue that we should try to emulate going forward???
Would that be comminist China's throat grip on Tibet...the Mafia like Russian example of "democracy"...the incestuous Saudi monarchs jeweled boot on the throat of women (throw in Egypt, Pakistan for good measure)...India's caste system...socialist Greece, Spain, Italy's promise of continued mass misery by throwing their citizens son's and daughters into debtors prison...the iron hand in the velvet glove of Sweden, do they have it figured out, really figured out, a socialist monarchy, is that "IT"???
I'm callin bullshit with a capital B.
I am not sure you took time to read the piece. The Internet is a great place to vent frustration.
I underlined the very fact that the State was instrumental in the rise of the Western world in dominating the world.
Very often, at some point, a way to success turns to be counter-productive.
Robbing is great when you start with little. When you have built up a lot through theft, you have to face the fact you crossed the river, that you put yourself into the position of being the one to rob. That is the cause why your appreciation of theft has to change.
The West is in this situation when it comes to the State.
That is why many are going to speak against the State in the West. Because they want to ban a key of their success and prevent others from walking the same path.
Never ask yourself why the US go mental over Tibet when the US has done several order of magnitude worse?
Simple gang logics. The US does not want the China gang to rise. That is why they dont want the Chinese to use the same recipes the US used to succeed.
"I am not sure you took time to read the piece."
I'm not sure you did either.
I am quite sure present money created from future earnings is essentially valueless to the future...I know Keynes was a handmaiden to fractional reserve banking and their butler's the politicians...I also know John Maynard Keynes was not an American and he admired the Nazi economic program under Hitler...did you???...I know the Keynesian "multiplier" is a farcical "concept" of accounting as it rely's on political willpower (a distinct psychological construct) as in, the borrowings will never be paid back and you cannot force consumption of anything in a free society, especially here where we (the U.S. citizen) have a long tradition of not succumbing to FORCE.
So, when you launched into some ad hominem xenophobic attack on my country..."All the discussions, especially from US citizens, revolve around maintaining the status quo."...you should understand that you would get a response (xenophobic, to your eyes???...LOL) FROM the U.S., not everyone IN this country is insane and rational American's never bought into "imported" Keynesian claptrap and central bank promissory notes in the first place.
I also find it odd behavior on your part to be having this discussion with a U.S. citizen who you wished to freeze out of any discussion not two posts ago...see Miles & CB's discussion of sociopaths above and some ready examples of same.
"The Internet is a great place to vent frustration."
Yours???
By the way "I'm" not mental over Tibet...I was pointing out the hypocricy of your beloved "Eastern way" of doing things where an army is just as effective as debt in subduing an unarmed or uninformed populace...just as my other "Eastern" examples showed.
So tell me, you did not answer the question, where is this mystic Eastern place of yours???
I'll be back later to see where this country is...my favorite team made it into the finals...unless I'm frozen out of any discussion with "my betters"...which is fine by me as well, as they do a remarkable job proving their "value" to me everyday ;-)
I answered to the first comment by the guy named something like West African Chief.
I addressed nothing about Keynesianism.
My comments went on the misperception of the whole state of affairs relayed by the poster "West African chief".
As the US has grown through its state and as now, the expansion allowed by the State is rather limited, the US will try to delegitimate the State. Normal move.
As to the reference to the Eastern country, where does it come from? What is it based on?
Funnily enough, when it suits you, you associate with your country (you took a generic remark on the US for you, seeing in it an opportunity to launch a xenophobic reply or something) and dissociate when it no longer suits you (the US going postal over Tibet does not mean you going postal on Tibet) To top it, you cast rationality in the mix where you should have spelled opportunism.
"I addressed nothing about Keynesianism."
I noticed...even though it was Tyler's second comment in the subject line...you also never revealed this utopian "Eastern place" of yours in juxtaposition to the "West" which you seem to hold in such high regard.
You write in your response to me: "As to the reference to the Eastern country, where does it come from? What is it based on?"...are you effin kidding me???
That would be in your words here:
"The Western world has rised thanks to the State. Big issue, the Western world is now"
Here:
"is no longer as profitable as it was for the West"
And here:
"especially from US citizens"
I've got a hypothetical question for you Anon...if it was within my power to REMOVE ALL American troops with their attendant infrastructure, base economies within foriegn countries and immediate military commitments to them back to American soil would this please you???
You will answer this straight forward question or our conversation is over.
nmewm
why the U.S. go mental over Tibet.......
Ask not what you can do for the Chicoms, ask what the Chicoms can do for you.
you do not need a piece of cheese to smoke out this mouse.
Funny. I thought through your misquotations I made a typo or something. But you misquoted me.
How did you jump to an Eastern country from a reference to the Western world?
The point was that the Western world rised on the State, that it could no longer be achieved, then it is time to start the funerals of the State.
Pleasing me? What is pleasing me is irrelevant. What you cant do is irrelevant to the topic. What is relevant is the US keeps acting according to their books. That the US has laid themselves on a one track path. They cannot change now.
Hey Mouse
get your Chicom handlers to arm you better.
I would challenge you to a duel of wits, but I refuse to fight an unarmed man.
The U.S. has much to answer for, but your criticisms are intellectual marshmallows glued together with non sequiturs, bound in tautology.
Take a trip down to Wallymart and buy something to keep your masters happy.
For someone calling for a duel of wits, you sink a lot in using ad hominems.
I thank you for keeping me out of a waste of my time. Debating people who cant follow their own rules is tedious and bring nothing I dont already know.
I don't know where you are but where I live - Bahamas and Canada, the only growth in jobs and wages is in the public sector. Every day some government employee dreams up some new form for us and steals time that could have been productive.
If the worst does happen, 1930s style, even the companies you mention will have huge losses in revenue and their share prices, and especially the level of P/E that will be seen as acceptable will be MUCH lower. I heard Mark Fisher mentioning his guess at 6-8 PE for the S&P. Think buying AAPL at 666 levels would be good then? Have at it...
First of all this is central banker's small talk;
reading the story of Bill White, I understood
that they talk but never listen
The man nobody wanted to hear
http://www.spiegel.de/international/bushttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/dea...
Second, I have been circulating the Dean Baker article: The Cult of Subprime Central Bankers http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dean-baker/the-cult-of-subprime-cent_b_591...
Thirdly, where Hoenig can dissent within FOMC meetings, the
ECB is in a deep crisis: the Germans answered this
speech by hinting today that the BCE of its
total of sovereign bond purchases, 40 billions euros
up to now, 25 have been devoted to purchasing
Greek bonds, and mostly from French banks,
suspecting French plot,so the ECB until Trichet's
retirement next year is going to be a battlefield
between the Buba-type hardliners and the beggars
of the troubled sovereign states
http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/0,1518,697489,00.html#ref=top
Last but not least, as outlined in this
comment, the ECB is ill-equipped as it was
never conceived to be either the lender of last resort
or the buyer of last resort:
http://www.eurointelligence.com/index.php?id=581&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=2803&tx_ttnews[backPid]=901&cHash=7336e0c284