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ECB Pushes The M.A.D. Button, Asks Court To Bar Greek Swap Disclosure, Threatens With Market Disruptions

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Yesterday Eurostat disclosed that in order to hide its debt over the past decade, Greece had entered into not one, not two, but a total of 13 different currency swap contracts with Goldman Sachs, all based on the exchange of assorted currencies against the euro as well as one involving a dollar-CHF swap. This was a topic that was all the rage back in early 2010 when it was unclear just how deep the Greek insolvency runs, and was pushed into the open after Zero Hedge first exposed Titlos PLC, an SPV securitization deal by the National Bank of Greece which not took a shady "off the books" currency swap and then securitized it. Since then this story has died down as it has become all too clear just how insolvent not only Greece but all other European countries are, and it no longer matter to haggle over pennies when entire countries subsist day to day purely due to the generosity of the ECB. Yet while Eurostat disclosed the number of the swaps it did not provide detail into just what was contained within these swaps. Which is why back in December, Bloomberg, which recently won a lawsuit against the Fed and achieved release of top secret bank bailout documents, sued the ECB, asking "the European Union’s General Court in Luxembourg to overturn a decision by the ECB not to disclose two internal documents drafted for the central bank’s six-member executive board in Frankfurt this year. The notes show how Greece used swaps to hide its borrowings, according to a March 3 cover page attached to the papers obtained by Bloomberg News." Yet even now that it is all too clear just what the true fiscal situation of Greece and the periphery is, the ECB is still scrambling to hide its secretive and potentially fraudulent practices. Per Bloomberg: "The European Central Bank asked the European Union’s General Court to dismiss a lawsuit seeking the disclosure of documents showing how Greece used derivatives to hide loans and triggered the region’s sovereign debt crisis." The reason provided: "The ECB has complete discretion to decide what it should
publish in the public interest, according to its defense to a
lawsuit filed by Bloomberg News. Releasing the papers could
damage the commercial interests of the ECB’s counterparties,
hurt the region’s banks and markets, and undermine the economic
policy of Greece and the EU, the central bank said." The reason given is the usual one: "Releasing the papers could
damage the commercial interests of the ECB’s counterparties,
hurt the region’s banks and markets, and undermine the economic
policy of Greece and the EU, the central bank said.
" And so the mutual assured destruction pantomime continues unabated, even though everyone knows by now that nothing of the threatened would ever actually happen.

More from Bloomberg:

The documents don’t “provide information that would assist in informing the public debate in any meaningful manner,” the ECB said in its lawsuit. The files “contain ECB’s staff assumptions and hypotheses which were intended to feed the internal deliberations,” the ECB said in papers served today. The notes “were as such made on the basis of partial elements available at the time and not fully accurate information.”

ECB President Jean-Claude Trichet is withholding the documents as EU finance chiefs prepare to meet next week to discuss additional support for Greece, which received a 110 billion-euro bailout ($155 billion) last year. More than four in five institutional investors say Greece will probably default on its debt, according to a Bloomberg Global Poll published today.

And the kicker:

The documents should also be protected to safeguard the effectiveness of the ECB decision-making process, the central bank said. The ECB also challenged the Bloomberg suit on technical grounds. The suit, which is based on the EU’s freedom of information rules, was filed in Luxembourg in December. It requested access to two internal papers drafted for the central bank’s six-member executive board in Frankfurt last year.

So let's get this straight: the ECB's decision-making process relies on shady transactions that involve the use of currency swaps? Interesting. So while we know that the Fed uses curve options to sell volatility and keep rates low, we wonder if the ECB is doing a comparable off-market intervention using the same mechanism that "nobody" knew was being used by Greece for nearly 10 years.

We urge Bloomberg to push for a full disclosure on this matter as we are certain that substantial amount of ECB fraud will be exposed.

h/t Eric

 

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Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:35 | 1272630 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

So they are saying screw honesty. They will threaten market disruption if they don't get their way. So let me ask this, why would anyone think they have Free-Markets with this situation?

 

I'm growing to think that we need to start killing some people. No trial, no peaceful resolution, just outright killing them.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:42 | 1272642 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"They will threaten market disruption if they don't get their way"

Now where have I seen this before?  What was that Volker said before TARP was forced upon congress and the people of the U.S?  What is Timmy telling congress now?  Crash the fucking system already, the sooner we do, the sooner compensation will return to people who are actually worth a shit.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:14 | 1272766 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

WHAT A FUKKING FARCE! The whole god damned system is corrupt from top to bottom!!! time to start fresh and push the reset button! Greece should lead the way!! DEFAULT ALREADY!

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:23 | 1272803 earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

you mean follow in Iceland's footsteps. They screwed the bankstas and are on the road to recovery.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 18:17 | 1273155 snakeboat
snakeboat's picture

Bjork Bjork Bjork Bjork Bjork Bjork Bjork Bjork </seal-tone>.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:24 | 1272806 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

They'll probably have a big ordeal over the weekend. Sunday night watch the news wires.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:54 | 1272956 Strider52
Strider52's picture

I still smile at what (someone) said a week or two ago: Too Corrupt to Prosecute". Another favorite is the new name for silver: Unobtainium. Good Stuff.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 17:05 | 1273001 Thomas
Thomas's picture

A friend who is high-ranking at Bloomberg declared that "we are going to win this one."

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 19:45 | 1273328 Mallenet
Mallenet's picture

He was talking to you, personal: stupid!

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 20:22 | 1273392 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

In person or personally: stupid....er.

Sat, 05/14/2011 - 06:09 | 1273938 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

I am big on confidentiality myself, but I don't see a need for it in a statement like that. Attorney's do it all the friggin time.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 19:46 | 1273337 rocker
rocker's picture

I surely hope your right Thomas.  If not, the FED can help feed another round of devaluation for us.

It would even be better if somebody could find out who the bond holders actually are ???

Expose the winers and teach them that there is a risk to maintaining a fraud based on greed.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:11 | 1272754 sgorem
sgorem's picture

re "NidStyles"; Now this guy has the RIGHT FUCKING IDEA!!!!!!!! Kill em all................Amen Brother!

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 17:00 | 1272970 TK7936
TK7936's picture

"I'm growing to think that we need to start killing some people. No trial, no peaceful resolution, just outright killing them."

Indirectly -thats what they have been doing to the people for centuries

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 18:44 | 1273206 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

I don't believe in spiteful retribution, or even justifiable killing on the grounds of morality.

 

I do believe in killing for survival though. We are not going to survive if these people keep this crap up.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 20:39 | 1273432 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Releasing the papers could damage the commercial interests of the ECB’s counterparties, hurt the region’s banks and markets, and undermine the economic policy of Greece and the EU, the central bank said.

Indirectly alright. Reconstructed into descriptions without the rose colored glasses:-Releasing the papers would expose the true nature and commercial skulduggery of the counterfeiter's(ECB's) as well as their partners, expose the regions loan sharks, expose the Greek's and every EU participating nation as duplicitous liars, the capo dei capi tutti said.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 19:34 | 1273247 Derpin USA
Derpin USA's picture

If someone were put on trial for killing banksters, and I found myself on the jury, and the defendant made a claim of self defense, I would find him not guilty.

 

Such actions are not murder. They are truly in defense of one's life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 22:15 | 1273609 HowardBeale
HowardBeale's picture

Hopefully, Lloyd Blankfein is at the top of your list--as well as that of those who have the means and balls to follow through.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:38 | 1272631 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Truth will come out eventually, so why pretend in the interim?  Bank fraud is everywhere.

The entire world has excessive unfunded liabilities that can't possibly be honored.  Time to hit reset and get on with life. 

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:52 | 1272685 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

You're thinking like a normal sane person.

They'd rather kill us all. Say it's our fault. Say they will never change and how we have to start over and try it again.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:12 | 1272765 centerline
centerline's picture

+1.  Class warfare.  Thousands of years later, same shit.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 18:48 | 1273213 knukles
knukles's picture

The term class warfare presumes the oppressed fight.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:15 | 1272768 jbuchal
jbuchal's picture

U.S. Courts have repeatedly adopted the theories here urged by the ECB to keep federal decisionmaking under wraps. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same result here.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:42 | 1272900 chubbar
chubbar's picture

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the Earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of a pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the fortunes like mine will disappear, and they ought to disappear, for this world would be a happier and better world to live in. But if you wish to remain slaves of the Bankers and pay for the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits." Sir Josiah Stamp, President of the Bank of England in the 1920s, the second richest man in Britain.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:38 | 1272632 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Translation;

The greeks say; "We want to default and live by our own means, come what may."

 

The world bankers and the ECB say; "You can not default, now be a good debt slave and shut the fuck up!" 

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:59 | 1272723 john39
john39's picture

true, but they have not planted any terrorists in Greece, so, they are going to have to come up with something interesting before they start bombing "for humanitarian purposes"

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:38 | 1272634 agent default
agent default's picture

And these are the  the same guys pushing for more transparency in the markets.  You just can't make this shit up.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:46 | 1272673 piceridu
piceridu's picture

+1

Sat, 05/14/2011 - 06:14 | 1273942 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

Remember the Godfather clip? he's gotta be a team player...right?

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:37 | 1272636 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Everything is fine in Europe, Greece, all the PIIGSy nations, Japan, the U.S., and with the world and central banks at large.

And inflation is under control, too.

I am highly optimistic smoking my Hopium laced with Moxium, Unobtanium and Plutonium/Cesium/Corium.

05-13 13:32: Starbucks has stopped buying coffee due to price, Reuters reports

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:39 | 1272637 DB Cooper
DB Cooper's picture

"You people can't handle the TRUTH!"

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:40 | 1272647 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

oy vey

Fransn zol esn zayn layb.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:11 | 1272753 willien1derland
willien1derland's picture

Bob shoots HE Scores! And may their wealth be consumed by inflation -

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:42 | 1272648 oogs66
oogs66's picture

Didn't Junker already explain it is necessary to lie sometimes?

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:39 | 1272649 Cassandra Syndrome
Cassandra Syndrome's picture

Medusa Contagion Bitchez

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:39 | 1272650 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

All fraud, all the time is now required to maintain the pretense that the Ponzi can continue.

What we are witneessing is the end of credit and credit-instruments-as-money.

What will follow is a bifurcated monetary system where all goods and services will carry two prices - one in fiat/credit-money and one in specie.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:43 | 1272651 Rynak
Rynak's picture

The market as a hostage.

Every one of them should be stripped of all wealth and then be put in jail for 20 years.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:44 | 1272652 hambone
hambone's picture

For those who doubt QE(X), Herr Stark makes it very clear nobody will fail, not Greece, not Ireland, not California, not anybody...cause that restructuring would be "too risky" to those in power of remaining in power...their power lies in printing more paper and absent printing, their power is, well, absent.

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Restructuring Greece's debt is too risky and may have a negative impact on the euro-zone region as a whole without resolving any of the underlying issues, a senior European Central Bank official said Friday. "The notion that one could solve a budget crisis by simple debt reduction is an illusion," Juergen Stark, a member of the ECB Executive Board, said in a speech at an award ceremony in Aachen, Germany. Stark noted that debt restructuring will trigger more uncertainties and lead to slower economic growth, forcing the government to borrow more heavily, according to a translated transcript of the speech. Stark also dismissed concerns that Greece was insolvent and stressed the importance of consistent implementation of structural reform.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:55 | 1272709 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

"The notion that one could solve a budget crisis by simple debt reduction is an illusion"

But debt increases, now that will do it!

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:43 | 1272654 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

is this what they call a "stress" test

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:27 | 1272819 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

No, a stress test is a a public farce to spread lies that everything is just fine oe easily fixable.

This is a were fucked moment.

The Greeks seem like they're gaming them right back.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:44 | 1272655 Mercury
Mercury's picture

"Releasing the papers could damage the commercial interests of the ECB’s counterparties, hurt the region’s banks and markets, and undermine the economic policy of Greece and the EU, the central bank said."

Correct.

Now cough it up.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:18 | 1272794 unununium
unununium's picture

+ 10^100

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:44 | 1272657 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

It's amazing how less threatening the threat becomes and even more amazing that we have let central banks operate in secrecy for so long and allowed to get away with the biggest transfer of wealth/slavery upon the masses ever.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:41 | 1272658 Arrowflinger
Arrowflinger's picture

Lesson of this all is clear and evident.

Never, ever trust any third party with your money.

What is hidden is always greater than what is disclosed.

 

 

 

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:41 | 1272660 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

You know, i've got a niggling feeling that all these Central Banks have got something very sinister to hide.

But, as we all know, you only get poor criminals... it's unheard of that super 'rich' people could be criminals too. Who owns the Central banks of the world again?

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:46 | 1272669 Gimp
Gimp's picture

Keeping up with all the lies and double talk by the Central Bankers is exhausting...I need a Dos Equis

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:48 | 1272671 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

It's all nuclear now. What is unclear is nuclear. All this hidden business can only explode out after so much supression. And it all seems so silly knowing that Fukushima is spewing and Libya is gettign hammered and Palestine is struggling and nuclear fallout has been ongoing for decades....

And here, little men at the ECB playing hide and seek with their cloak and dagger money games.

ORI

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2010/09/20/nuclear-revelation-a-bomb-indeed/

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:49 | 1272679 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Isn't refusing to release the information a de facto admission of guilt and foul play? Like refusing to take a breathalyzer when pulled over by the police is viewed as an admission of guilt as viewed by the court.

What credibility could the market even allow them? And what's the point of hiding it anyway? It's pretty apparent that most countries are insolvent at this point and are getting shady backdoor bailout deals on the regular.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 17:16 | 1272682 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Those holding fiat and related paper, please remain calm and cool.   Know that your wealth is in the hands of honorable politicians while we PM misguided souls continue to accumulate said metals at discounts.

 

Calm and Cool.   Oh, and don't forget to point to your favorite little chart today - I'll be very frightened...Really.  You have the masters of the Universe behind you

 

He He he

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:53 | 1272687 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

There is no fix.  Swaps are toxic.  

They have to give Greece money to avoid default.  Not loan.  Give.

And anyone who does it will be voted out of office.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:56 | 1272704 willien1derland
willien1derland's picture

+1,000 - Give till it HURTS -

Sat, 05/14/2011 - 05:30 | 1273922 css1971
css1971's picture

They have to give Greece money to avoid default.  Not loan.  Give.

Ding.

And this is the solution to the problem. Print money, not loan it into existence.

Course they will do this in the end, either by design or by accident.

  • If by design, asset values can be somewhat controlled, but we're talking long term stagflation.
  • If by accident the defaults will write off enough debt such that the remaining credit can pay what is left and asset values will drop hugely.

The nice thing about this is it's predictable, these people didn't get to the top by thinking that they couldn't control the situation. The egos are enormous.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:50 | 1272688 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

 

                      GOLD

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:52 | 1272699 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

This is not a gold thread.

When gold becomes a threat to the system, it will be treated like drugs.  There will be no confiscation.  Ownership is not a crime.  Trafficking is.  What will be its value if you can't buy, sell or trade it?

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:06 | 1272730 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Ha!   That's right.   When it was illegal to buy or own or trade in foreign currencies in Germany in the 1920s, it completely went away, right? - WRONG

 

The same has been true throughout history.   The more any sovereign state intervenes, the more isolated it will become.  It will appear like a desperate act.  Other nations will seek to destabilze that country.

 

Nope - Won't happen.  It is about GOLD and tyranical laws in a first world country won't work this time

 

 

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:14 | 1272774 vocational tainee
vocational tainee's picture

In old times we used to say,semper idem..

 

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:31 | 1272832 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

You don't look bad for a 2,135 year old...

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 20:48 | 1273442 vocational tainee
vocational tainee's picture

Thank`s for admiring my visual appearance ,but I´m only 87,and tiring every fourth hour..mez   three am.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:07 | 1272739 hambone
hambone's picture

My good Mr. Optimistic,

you are correct.  I fear every avenue of resistance will be barred, banned, made criminal.  Silver, gold, commodities in general attempting to usurp paper money will not accepted and will be denied by all manner.  I buy gold, I buy silver, etc.  But deep down I fear even this all goes far beyond what cuddling of physical PM's can fix and that absent true revolution (unlikely) these too will be made impotent, subservient of TPTB.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 19:13 | 1272797 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Ireland is full of little creatures trying to save their paper empires - many of the chosen believe that Bank of Ireland is Ireland and are willing to destroy all economic activity to peserve this poisonous meme.

Well if they don't revalue Gold or burn private credit liabilties soon we will lose the last remaining bits of economic life to peserve their credit empires.

Its beyond a slight sickness - its a extreme pathology.

PS the ECB ain't doing us any favours - they are using the BOI,AIB and CBI boys to drain us dry.

Sat, 05/14/2011 - 05:15 | 1273918 css1971
css1971's picture

Kick the insolvent banks out and let them fold.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 17:54 | 1273101 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Pretty much that.  The ZH gold guys have not thought through the logistics.

Saying something has always been such and such is meaningless in a world, like this one, which has never existed before.

The logistics are like so; Someone decides gold has become a threat to "society" and the politically easy thing to do is not to confiscate -- it is to outlaw trafficking, as if it was a drug.

If you own it, fine.  If you try to buy, sell or trade it, you're going to jail.  So now you want to swagger forth and imagine a black market?  Fine, imagine the logistics.  There you are, with gold, and someone knocks on your door to sell you some ammo -- for gold.

What do you do?  You have no published prices.  You don't know how much gold to pay for the bullets.  You also don't know if Mr. Bullet Guy is a Fed there to nail you.

At that point, your gold is worthless, and you don't know what to do.  And make no mistake, this can happen at any moment.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 20:52 | 1273449 ctlaltDEL
ctlaltDEL's picture

If he wanted my gold and I wanted his bullets we would find a price, or a relative amount to trade. Its called a market dipshit.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:52 | 1272691 willien1derland
willien1derland's picture

Yes because Markets are SOOOO much more important than INTEGRITY & HONESTY - Imagine if an airline decided upon such an approach - "Well we knew that the aircraft had absolutely no viability in the air, however, cancelling a large percentage of flights would impact our stock price" - God Save US from OURSELVES!

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:54 | 1272696 Jack Mehoff
Jack Mehoff's picture

I wonder what will finally topple the house of cards. Apparently these guys have a lot more staying power than anyone predicted. 

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:04 | 1272731 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Civil war. One country at a time.

The end of the EMU wouldn't be the end of the bankster cartell.... just something very annoying.

Sat, 05/14/2011 - 05:15 | 1273917 css1971
css1971's picture

The Bank of England was formed in 1694.

Hope that helps give you some perspective.

 

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:52 | 1272697 Tic tock
Tic tock's picture

Nothing can prevent the re-distribution of ownership. Capitalism was the concentration of resources and the control over human ingenuity, this will no longer be controlled. Does Cannitalism have to bring down the Judiciary with it?

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:54 | 1272707 Ted K
Ted K's picture

Great post.  Nail these hypocritical ECB bastards for wanting to blame America for lax bank oversight and corrupt EU shenanigans. How many anti-Semite French and Greece were so happy when Goldman Sachs came ringing the doorbell with a false solution???

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:55 | 1272710 Ted K
Ted K's picture

Great post.  Nail these hypocritical ECB bastards for wanting to blame America for lax bank oversight and corrupt EU shenanigans. How many anti-Semite French and anti-Semite Grecians were so happy when Goldman Sachs came ringing the doorbell with a false solution???

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:00 | 1272711 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

i'm liking the Fridays in Luxumbourg in May, tyler!  

this is wonderful:  "Releasing the papers could damage the commercial interests of the ECB’s counterparties..."

this is like when our guy, wwwonderbenzelbub, said: we can't tell ya, you'd lose confidence in the financials, trust me! 

just keep playing those casino chips, and, good luck!

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 21:26 | 1273506 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

The Bernank tried to resist that Bloomberg (Mark Pittman - RIP) FOIA Request and subsequent legal action on the exact same stated grounds, but the SCOTUS slapped The Bernank to the ground.

It's just pathetic how these slimy central bankster criminals attempt to find any excuse, however lame, to hide their actions from the light of day.

They operate exactly like the Mafia, except their activities harm far more people globally and in far deeper ways, yet they are embraced in the elite social circles, and even have the balls to 'do' interviews and feign concern over "the economy."

They need to be rounded up and tried for sedition, convicted, and treated accordingly.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:56 | 1272712 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

The problem is, these issues cannot be resolved. Except by outright default. It will happen one way or another. The longer they put it off. The worst it will be.

 

http://ericsprott.blogspot.com/

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:02 | 1272721 jkruffin
jkruffin's picture

Russell 2000 implosion will bring the big board ponzi to its knees!!! It has begun.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 15:59 | 1272722 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

The problem is, these issues cannot be resolved. Except by outright default. It will happen one way or another. The longer they put it off. The worst it will be.

 

http://ericsprott.blogspot.com/

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:05 | 1272729 Vincent Vega
Vincent Vega's picture

As much as I agree with many who post on ZH that the markets are held hostage, it's a ponzi, debt can never be repaid, etc, etc.. and that there needs to be a 'reset'; I can't help but wonder about the amount of civil unrest that will be caused. Any thoughts?

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:30 | 1272842 hambone
hambone's picture

If (when?) there is an awakening of the populace to the fleecing, the lying, the manipulation of everything about them for the few at the expense of the many...it's the collapse of mental paradigms that proceeds and then leads to the civil unrest...the anger, the hatred, the vengance once felt is morphs into the civil unrest. 

However, more likely minor players or red herrings will be scapegoated and attacked and the true villains will remain...

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:37 | 1272872 pods
pods's picture

Well I can only speak for the fat and happy amerikans I see......

Does the term "Long Pig" ring a bell?

pods

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 19:23 | 1273287 Mallenet
Mallenet's picture

I have a fat little baby that becomes a small country by age 12, then dies of heart dis-ease by 35: I have Super-Size me because Ma is to fat to cook and Dad is a dyno!  I am 13 years old and I have the gravity of 5 girls my age in China/India - but only 3 in Eastern Europe!  The last time I could whipe my extremities, I was almost gymnastic!  I am American youth!

Sat, 05/14/2011 - 05:10 | 1273915 css1971
css1971's picture

Depends entierly on how they go about it.

 

It's possible to switch to a full reserve banking system with a couple of decades of inflationary pain, but without a collapse. They'll never do it of course, they'll play for all or nothing.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:04 | 1272736 bbq on whitehou...
bbq on whitehouse lawn's picture

Can I take out insurance on shooting myself in the foot. When i have a gun ammo and may accidently shoot myself in the foot during target practice.

I would like to take out 3 billion euros, in insurance with no money down. Thank you.

Ouch. I seemed to have shot myself in the foot.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:05 | 1272737 silberblick
silberblick's picture

BLOGSPOT.COM IS UP AGAIN.
Click below to read why silver market manipulation will not end soon:

http://thesilvergoldhedge.blogspot.com/2011/05/market-manipulation-not-t...

Click on the next link to watch a hilarious animation telling you why you should buy physical silver:

http://thesilvergoldhedge.blogspot.com/2011/05/join-sla-to-get-even-and-...

Finally, click on this last link to read why the CFTC is doing nothing about market manipulation:

http://thesilvergoldhedge.blogspot.com/2011/04/reason-why-cftc-is-doing-...

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 19:11 | 1273266 Mallenet
Mallenet's picture

Ha ha - love your selling skills!

Here - we play with our own - or own or play!

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:07 | 1272738 Hondo
Hondo's picture

If they truly belief what they've stated then the whole system is built on sand and corruption and everyone should indeed run for their lives........the ECB position is unbelievably arrogant and corrupt.  The so called developed world has slipped back to the dark ages…..it must be time for a complete overrun and replacement of the idiots in charge.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:08 | 1272743 Mec-sick-o
Mec-sick-o's picture

Time to short the €uro...

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 19:07 | 1273259 Mallenet
Mallenet's picture

In the land of the blind, the man with one eye see a USD 'freefall' while a Euro pretence holds - if only for a 'short' opportunity!

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:09 | 1272745 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Tick, tick, tick >>>Ka-boom<<<

What the fuck was that Ben? Sounded like a derivative contract.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 19:01 | 1273254 Mallenet
Mallenet's picture

Chuckle - much (well done)!

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:27 | 1272760 unununium
unununium's picture

"the ECB’s counterparties"...

Could it be any clearer that central banks are just banks, part and parcel of the banking collective?

How wretched and peculiar that we allow these hooligans to create our money.

 

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:14 | 1272767 sgorem
sgorem's picture

fuck yEU...........

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:22 | 1272802 Atomizer
Fri, 05/13/2011 - 17:14 | 1272858 Curtis LeMay
Curtis LeMay's picture

+1 Atomizer The euro so-called "elite" are in utter panic mode right now.

An op-ed, about 20-25 minutes old as of now, in The Telegraph sums it up pretty well.

Excerpt:

European finance ministers will meet in Brussels on Monday and Tuesday. They do so in an atmosphere verging on panic.

In short, the only thing that is clear is that the eurozone is in an almighty mess. A modern, dynamic core – both France and Germany yesterday posted blistering growth figures – is yoked to a bankrupt periphery. Jettisoning the weaker members would be fiendishly difficult; but the price of rescuing them is so high that the French and German political classes, high priests of integration, could find themselves disowned by their own voters.

Last year's bail-out of Greece has not worked: European taxpayers have thrown 110 billion euros at the country, but it is not enough; as Greece drowns in debt, the structure of government itself is beginning to fail. There is no easy solution. Indeed, a vicious row has broken out between Germany and the European Central Bank over two rival solutions, both of them hazardous.

German politicians favour a restructuring of Greece's debt, an expensive move that would inflict damage on holders of Greek bonds but should safeguard the German banking system, which is on the hook for a colossal sum.

The ECB, in contrast, predicts that restructuring the debt would put the whole European banking system under strain, and could even cause it to collapse. It wants to hand out more loans in return for more Greek austerity; quite how it expects to persuade European taxpayers to throw good money after bad is not clear, nor how long it believes such economic life support can be prolonged.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/8513260/The-EUs-troubles-pose-a-dilemma-for-Britain.html

= = = = =

Pick your poison, and the Germans have had, thank God, effing enough of the copious amount of BS they have been fed by euroland's "elite", and very dangerously for Merkel, on anything related to the euro and bailouts...

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 19:26 | 1273291 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Ireland is running a current account surplus Le May - the ECB and the insider CBI is just fucking us sideways.

We have the largest trade surplus per capita in Europe

Go bomb something to rubble , then bomb the rubble and then you can nuke that modern dynamic core of yours.

If we stop bailing out the wonderful dynamic core their banks will go puff.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 20:21 | 1273391 Curtis LeMay
Curtis LeMay's picture

CorkDork, 

Continue bailing? Borrow your way out of debt? Don't make sense - unless one is pawning the family silver for a final roll of the dice at the crap table.

Be that as it may, Gauleiter Rehn now speaks for Ireland, apparently. 

= = = = =

Rehn warns of big risks [for Ireland] as growth for forecast cut

The Irish Times - Saturday, May 14, 2011

THE EUROPEAN Commission warned of “considerable risks” to Ireland’s economic outlook as it cut its forecast for growth this year to 0.6 per cent of gross domestic product, one-third lower than its prior forecast in November.

Saying economic activity continues to be weighed down by the aftershocks of the real estate bust, the EU’s executive branch noted that the export-led recovery would bring only a “very gradual improvement” in employment.

The forecast for unemployment was revised upwards to 14.5 per cent, as the “stabilising mechanisms” of emigration and lower participation have not proved as strong as anticipated

-etc-

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/0514/1224296944172.html

= = = = =

Joining euroland has been an utter disaster for Ireland. Now, and no offense intended, CorkDork, Ireland is now simply a vassal of the ECB and Brussels Politburo. Shoot, you've even got an EU Commissioner speaking for Ireland's economy...

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 20:52 | 1273446 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture
  • I didn't say we are not fucked - I am merely pointing to the Hun, Franc and Saxon - they have had their way.

The Core needs a surplus to consume - it suits them that we are nice little Austrian Irishmen so that they can live out their Monetarist dreams.

If the Euro is to beat Golds performance in the coming decade it must re wild Hibernia , Iberia and Hellas.

 

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 21:42 | 1273480 Curtis LeMay
Curtis LeMay's picture

"The Core needs a surplus to consume - it suits them that we are nice little Austrian Irishmen so that they can live out their Monetarist dreams."

Well said, and isn't it high time to return in kind some of that "vaunted" European "solidarity" to euroland's "elite" in the form a nasty and permanent case of indigestion?

Cheers from a former citizen of greater West Eire - Boston ;)

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:33 | 1272849 citta vritti
citta vritti's picture

seems like Bloomberg (and TD-ZH?) is in the role of Will Smith and TLJ in MIB, making the terrestrial relations of the intergalactic cockroach crackle - all worth it, but especially from about 4:30 on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdukxV2WCog

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:41 | 1272879 moldygoat
moldygoat's picture

Somebody please tell me how this will end. Pretend you are the ruler of the Ponzi, what is the end game?

How does it all reset? Everyone on ZH keeps saying the SWHTF but tell me a story, what will actually happen?

(False Flag)Terrorism, and (HAARP)natural disasters only go so far, is that all they will hide behind?

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 19:00 | 1273249 Mallenet
Mallenet's picture

Your money is no longer yours - its all mine!  Why? I am closer to the print machine than you (and that is about as technical as it gets)!  I hope you like the explanation - because I don't!

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 20:28 | 1273411 knowless
knowless's picture

the possible outcomes are endless, I for one think the federal government will decline and never come to the aid of citizens except maybe in a regional way around DC or any army bases it retains control of, once people realise that they are no longer americans when the dollar dies, and food stops coming, petty warlords will gain control over the cities, mustering armies, probably on racial lines (a civil war basically) then expand out into the farmland attempting to gain territory. minor city states will be attempted with what resources remain, but in the midst of all of this, the general population is starving, and starting to turn on one and other, all major roads will be blocked by fools trying to flee, and with no response crews, just one wreck shuts down the artery, which will spread through the entire highway system quickly in the panic.

there is much more to consider in this, foreign powers, resiliant state or local governments.. but i would be wary of any metropolis.

Sat, 05/14/2011 - 10:22 | 1274134 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Read up on Japan from late 80s until now for a sneak preview.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 16:52 | 1272944 Billy Shears
Billy Shears's picture

Slaves to our corporate masters lies! Viva la revolution!

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 17:05 | 1272991 ivana
ivana's picture

BLLLUUARRRGGGHHHHHHHHHH !!
(giant puking sound)

and here it comes again

BLLLUUARRRGGGHHHHHHHHHH !!BLLLUUARRRGGGHHHHHHHHHH !!

Hope that ZH readers in old bitch europe will hear and spread the word. If banksters in USA are keeping the whole nation as hostages... now it's time to see if their EU servants are allowed to perform same BS in europe

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 18:52 | 1273231 knukles
knukles's picture

As Zah Zah once said; "Dahling, the Rothschilds are all European."

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 18:54 | 1273241 Mallenet
Mallenet's picture

Maybe Jewish?

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 18:53 | 1273232 knukles
knukles's picture

Subdural hematoma.
There is no where safe left to run.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 17:17 | 1273043 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Fucking pieces of shit scum banksters.

Each and evey one.

Terorist with the get out of jail free,National Security Interest Card.

Fuck Off and Die Banksters....

J P Morgue and GoldMan Sachs of Shit

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 18:55 | 1273236 Mallenet
Mallenet's picture

Must be a bad hair bday for someone!

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 17:44 | 1273087 Smartie37
Smartie37's picture

Does anyone else think that the May 20th expiry put volumes today in the major banks seemed kind of high ? 

Writing on the wall for this weekend / next week ?

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 18:53 | 1273226 Mallenet
Mallenet's picture

20 May is in my book!

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 18:00 | 1273119 godzila
godzila's picture

The arrogance of the plutocrats is amazing

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 18:52 | 1273221 Mallenet
Mallenet's picture

I wish  (yeh - I know) I formed a bank in Greece - they are sucking out Serbia, Albania and Bulgaria - lets not mention Montenegro (too small) - and they still fail!

I warned of Greeks and gifts long ago - but so did Teuta!

History repeats - again!

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 19:11 | 1273270 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

Some things are best kept secret like when Aunt Minnie told me to keep quiet about the handsome mailman delivering more then the morning mail.

"Best keep it secret little Pulau,"she whispered.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 19:34 | 1273308 Mallenet
Mallenet's picture

The problem with EU - by your Spanish Gran: how almost interesting!

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 19:17 | 1273276 bentaxle
bentaxle's picture

There isn't anybody here who wants to believe that the EU is a democratic institution that respects the rule of law, when it comes to those things applying to EU institutions?

The EU can't handle difficult questions and this, "if you don't like it, just get lost," approach of theirs is surprisingly typical.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 19:27 | 1273300 Mallenet
Mallenet's picture

Get a job outside politics - or inside: tosser!

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 20:28 | 1273412 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

You Sir are a Maggot.

Get lost.

Sat, 05/14/2011 - 08:54 | 1274036 bentaxle
bentaxle's picture

Mallenet, my only regret is that your being unable to read won't make you unable to breed. All I would advise is, if you think you are capable of this, please keep it to a minimum.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 19:28 | 1273302 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

"The ECB has complete discretion to decide what it should publish in the public interest"

Sounds reasonable.

Until you realise that the ECB has no "public interest" mandate.

Does the ECB care for the public of Greece?

Does the ECB care for the public of Ireland?

Does the ECB care for the public of Portugal?

No. They don't.

Simples.

They have no mandate for the "public interest".

Just more lying scum.

It is not the public they are interested in.

 

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 19:53 | 1273341 Mallenet
Mallenet's picture

Ha ha - I love the site: the last time I saw an American with a chance of winning anything - he was called Rambo!  Ha ha ha = the joke of the planet thinks it has something to offer? Ha ha ha ha!

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 20:10 | 1273375 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

This is Fight Club.

Do you get it?

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 20:56 | 1273452 vocational tainee
vocational tainee's picture

Mr. Mallenet,you seem to be very french..

Sat, 05/14/2011 - 10:19 | 1274130 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Please speak directly into the MP5.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 21:39 | 1273538 farmer1
farmer1's picture

Derivatives (swaps) basically pull forward future earnings into current periods.  Both companies have independent valuations so both sides to an agreement can claim profits in the early years.  The whole things is Enron, LTCM, ad nauseum.  Wouldn't be surprised if that's what really brought down Madoff and wouldn't be surprised if Buffett gets caught with his pants down too.

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 22:18 | 1273608 FlyPaper
FlyPaper's picture

 !!  What hyperbole.  There's either malpractice, misallocation, misappropriation, collusion or some high-ranking Eurocrats who'd be embarrassed by the 'revelations.'  

 

 

Sat, 05/14/2011 - 06:37 | 1273949 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

You left out brief cases of 100 dollar bills...

Fri, 05/13/2011 - 23:26 | 1273703 Cull Morgan
Cull Morgan's picture

"it has become all too clear just how insolvent not only Greece but all other European countries are"

Really!?! "All other European countries" are insolvent?

This story is far too important to be discredited by nonsense spouted by hyperventilating Chicken Littles. How much did Draghi know about the fraud his employer was so well paid to help Greece commit to qualify for the Eurozone, etc.

Sat, 05/14/2011 - 04:35 | 1273907 Youri Carma
Youri Carma's picture
Greece Debt Default Anticipated by 85% in Global Poll; Portugal, Ireland Follow - Bloomberg Vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1JobFI4DrQ Greece Economy Grows Faster Than UK LOlz!,  13 May 2011, (Sky News) http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Greece-Economy-Grows-Faster-skynews-3534961856.html
Sat, 05/14/2011 - 06:07 | 1273934 raios_parta
raios_parta's picture

It's not really surprising, is it?

The ECB is run by socialists, and socialists protect their own.

Sat, 05/14/2011 - 10:17 | 1274128 snowball777
snowball777's picture

What a brilliant 'backdoor' maneuver from those crafty Greeks. Stuck in an economic union that doesn't allow fiat? Synthesize a new "currency" to debase with swaps!

How much do these FX swap shenanigans explain Goldman's well-nigh bi-polar eur/usd calls?

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