Economists from the Left and the Right Agree: Neither the U.S. Nor Europe Is Dealing With the Real Problem

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Tue, 05/24/2011 - 10:55 | 1305000 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Of course the U.S. and Europe aren't dealing with the real problem. Because the real problem is that the world will be noticeably short of oil by 2020.

And the U.S. and Europe run on a capitalistic system addicted to oil and growth.

There is still money to made now, but Big Brother might need it and confiscate it for the effort.

The only security for you and your family is a membership in the inner party.

Orwell ueber alles.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 08:45 | 1304579 Robslob
Robslob's picture

EU, Greece and PIIGS...this should sum it up:

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 08:32 | 1304546 Dolemite
Dolemite's picture


Gold at a crossroads?

Oil completing it's dead cat bounce?


Tue, 05/24/2011 - 08:28 | 1304535 GMRobertson
GMRobertson's picture

Two thoughts.  Perhaps because the pace is too slow and boring, all financial markets and prices are established in the end on political evolution which in turn is based upon hard power.  The basic fact jumps up - only the USA hs substantial hard power in the Euro domain.  So, the USA will set this policy.  The USA wants a self absorbed Europe, staring at its navel and claiming some sort of moral high ground of political development.  "Deliberative Democracy" is the word, I think - rule by college dons and bureacrats and rascals who sit astride transfer soceity funds.  Meanwhile the USA has Europe nicely positioned as an Eloian nation - to be harvested over time.  Thats the cynical view.  Or rather we are witnessing the long and stedy emergence of the USA hegemon, likely to rule for the next several centuries as the hegemon, after the fall of the Berlin Wall.  This, though, is a steady slow process, with as much excitement as watching a glacier progressing - but with every bit as much power.

So, since it is in the USA interest to  keep this feeble and self- absorbed Europe going, through the IMF and Fed swap lines and access to US markets, Europe will lurch from one crisis to the next barely making it, showing in the end the self satisfied resuts of "thoughtful deliberation" and in the end wag their finger at the glacier in smug superiour thoughts while almost 100,000 USA military and ships and defensive gear is strewn in permanent bases in ways that would make Hitler and Stalin roll in the grave in envy. 

As much as Europe would like to dream away the reality - the Westphalian system is very much with us still.  By submerging sovereigns under a plutocratic "talk union", Europe denies the fueling of the very engones that might provide growth.  The prosperity is all from the devices and agreements the USA implemented post WW II and the security umbrella the USA provides.


Tue, 05/24/2011 - 08:08 | 1304500 razorthin
razorthin's picture

"Cash" and carry.  It fattens the masses and starves the elites.  All credit is junk, now that we don't use capital to make anything anymore.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 07:19 | 1304442 MarketFox
MarketFox's picture

Europe and the US smell more like the Argentina solution....


Seems like what is inevitable for Greece....and its weak brethren just need to start out fresh by re-issuing their own sovereign currencies.....which could be out the gate 2.3.4 to 1 overnight devaluation...thus snuffing out the debt issues.....


The Eurozone is a failed academic experiment set up by incomplete thought....impractical in the real world.....

Those with the debt baggage will find out what their currencies are really worth.....interesting in the sense that several currency cuts will be happening very close together in terms of time frames....




Major lesson that governments are IMF setups that just spread around ibitis.....which everyone pays....


Stupidity at its worst.....


Tue, 05/24/2011 - 04:16 | 1304356 Volaille de Bresse
Volaille de Bresse's picture

"99.99.9 % of the people on the planet are living in an imaginary world"

Make that : "99.99.9 % of the people in the upper hemisphere are living in an imaginary world" cos ya know some poeple on this planet don't have a TV set... or a car... or even a hard-buit house... or even proper toilets. 

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 01:46 | 1304261 silberblick
silberblick's picture

Cornel West calls out Obama and challenges Americans to rise up like people in Europe and the Middle East are doing. Read here:

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 08:44 | 1304570 Bob
Bob's picture

Even the educated liberals are increasingly coming to awareness:

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 04:10 | 1304352 michigan independant
michigan independant's picture

So will the nontaxpayers show up or the taxpayers in there foxhole pop up there head struggling to get by?

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 01:31 | 1304251 VyseLegendaire
VyseLegendaire's picture

Niall Ferguson is an official contributor to BB? Did he just say 'virtuous north?' Sounds like a white supremecist term.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 08:39 | 1304559 Bob
Bob's picture

Sounds like a reference to the "good boys and girls" who are paying their bills.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 01:37 | 1304249 Parth
Parth's picture

I cannot comprehend why so many 0hedgers can't understand one simple thing. The only solution is WW3....slowly dawning on humanity. Why bother on these grand theories like Austrian economics is the answer, I loved that post on all the technical analysis tools, and so many alternate economists going to save the world only if the government listened. Well I have a simple solution- nobody listens and at the end of the day its just one big war and the winners rewrite history. Its really Basic Instinct. Humanity has to come to grips with its true nature. We are nothing but an extension of the animal kingdom. War and violence is our nature our creed.


Tue, 05/24/2011 - 01:41 | 1304259 Parth
Parth's picture

You know Mr Durden posted some 800 pdfs to explain the economics, FX and technical analysis. I just have one line. Humanity routinely resolves its issues with one big war. Understand human nature and no need to read all those pdf. We are nothing but instinctive creatures controlled by fear and greed.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 05:23 | 1304389 Catullus
Catullus's picture

There is nothing inevitable about mass murder by governments, aka war.  "Humanity" has never once started a war.  Only governments have.  And the only thing it ever resolves is focusing people's anger away from the state and toward someone else.  That is the nature of the state, not humanity.  It requires reading some of those pdfs to figure that out.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 07:57 | 1304487 tonyw
tonyw's picture

Governments have started all the wars and have been able to either force or persuade the people to go out and fight and lose their lives, usually quite easily with some small amount of propoganda such as false flag events similar to the Gulf of Tonkin. When things are not going well at home then stir up the people.


Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:52 | 1304152 PaddyFields
PaddyFields's picture

I'm surprised the Irish government don't offer to pay off the Greek debt aswell as 'our' own. They have agreed to everything else, the trough fed gobsh***s.

Still, chin up, Barry gave the consuming Irish public a good show today so who all is well in the land of a thousand delusions. Barry's visit is not too unlike getting a nod from the captain of the football team only because in wants to sleep with your sister. The sister in this little simile being the Irish-American voter.....obviously.

And yet, with the exception of Ron Paul (Go Ron!), the republican candidates competing to run against Barry next year would appear to be disingenuous dullards. Newt 2012, seriously?

Besides, why does everybody hate Obama. Himself and the Goldman boys are about to turn our gold investments into .... gold, right?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:40 | 1304133 malek
malek's picture

Bring out the clowns!
Krugman: austerity has failed - so print, print, print and spend, spend, spend!

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 08:35 | 1304554 Cynthia
Cynthia's picture

Paul Krugman and other Keynesian economists are right to argue that using monetary policy to print and thus depreciate the dollar has the effect of boosting exports. But they are wrong to assume that boosting exports will always boost employment. This is only true if our multinational corporations were penalized for shipping jobs overseas and if we were still producing more than we consume, as was the case throughout most of the Industrial Revolution. So until we restore our producer economy and get back to treating our workers as assets rather than as liabilities, no amount of printing and thus depreciation of the dollar by the Fed will get our employment numbers back to pre-recession levels!

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 08:35 | 1304545 Bob
Bob's picture

As long as we claw back, claw back, claw back. 

Otherwise, let this fucker burn ASAP, before the banksters own the world and every serf in it.  

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:37 | 1304125 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

Economists still think "economics is a science."

A Myth almost as huge as,"real estate only goes up."

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:34 | 1304114 treasurefish
treasurefish's picture

Economists from the left and the right agree?  Can I ASS-U-ME (love that word), that this is implying that the left are Keynesians (as usual) and the right are now finally embracing Austrian?  I hope so!!!  


RON PAUL 2012!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:37 | 1304128 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture


if you read thru the banter of.. guilt. all of these would be conservatives that discuss pennies (as if that is what will save them in the end) and ignore the quality of life of the bottom 20%, 40% and very soon.. sooner than later, 60%.


this back and forth bullshit will in the end be the same bullshit that goes on in Washington.. which will bring this once great country to its knees.


the part that bothers me, other than the total fucking stupidity that I am stuck swimming in.. is that the powers that be want a meltdown.


there is no way that this ends well, we have been in a nose dive.. which is turning into a flat spin that we simply will not be able to recover from.


all of these faux negotiations that get batted back and forth everywhere will be a fond memory when the hungry people show up demanding to be fed.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:48 | 1304148 PD Quig
PD Quig's picture

Left vs. Right is an illusion to keep the masses attention off the real issue: the political and corporatists are screwing everybody else--and have been since at least 1913. Let us default. Let there be a massive economic crisis. Let us go up Capitol Hill with tar, feathers, torches, and pitchforks. Let us hang a few banksters upside down from lamp posts. Forget jail time. It's Hell time. No more food stamps: Wall Street Soylent Green is on the menu.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 08:57 | 1304526 Bob
Bob's picture

Exactly.  And the corporate media and "experts" keep hammering this issue as a "failure of political will" to "get our financial house in order."  This sounds very intelligent and educated--and it sure plays well with those who live off the game and all the useful idiots who promote that view as little more than an expression of their own fucked-up hater personalities and would love nothing more than to see many people (their favorite hate objects) suffer.  I'm talking about you, Galt.  Much as they speak in less brutal terms, their true passions are palpably unmistakable. 

Yet the whole fucking ongoing "crisis" is nothing more legitimate than mobsters demanding their latest protection payment, without even a pro forma "sorry we have to triple your payment from now on."  These are people who provide little real value of any kind in this world . . . yet control a system which operates on the principle they should only gain money and never lose it, regardless of what that does to others. 

This system itself is inherently psychopathic. 

So people--real people, that is--lack the "political will" to eat all losses?  I sure as hell hope so. 

Fuck "austerity."  It's just a fancy term for "protection money." 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:12 | 1304066 Manthong
Manthong's picture

NF is a smart dude.

I wonder why he is slumming with the morons at Harvard.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 08:09 | 1304501 Bob
Bob's picture


Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:51 | 1304031 tired1
tired1's picture

The US vs EU in a race to the bottom. I'm not smart enough to look behind the curtain so maybe someone can explain to me how the global cabal is playing the game. I'm assuming that the desired goal of the money manipulation is to gain control of as much of sovereign property as possible - but in whose name? This kind of crap has been played out before on national/regional basis. Now it seems that at least a hemisphere is in play.

I sense some pushback with in ME and EU while the US is busy doing whatever it is Americans do. I guess I'm trying to figure out if the NWO is an acheivable goal.


Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:10 | 1304056 Vuvuzela
Vuvuzela's picture

in the name of Master Rothschild ? In the name of Commitee of 300 ? In the name of Order of the Garter. Some of those parasites will own us all

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:51 | 1304030 bmwm395
bmwm395's picture

 I'm a cup is half full kind of guy. but more and more I'm thinking, my cup has a hole in the bottom. WTF

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 00:04 | 1304163 Redneck Makin-tosh
Redneck Makin-tosh's picture

pythagorean cup?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:43 | 1304006 sasebo
sasebo's picture

Too many stupid assholes.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:45 | 1303959 Vuvuzela
Vuvuzela's picture

Does any one of you belive this situation is the Fianl Act of a Master Plan designed from the times of Weishaupt, Marx, Hertzel which was passed from generation to generations by the peoples of a certain religion ?

It might sound crazy but look around you: No matter who we elect the BS is the same, maybe it tastes different in Greece then Irland but is the same.


No one want to deal with the problem because the real purpose is to create Haos, pain, misery. poverty.



Tue, 05/24/2011 - 02:19 | 1304297 Dugald
Dugald's picture


"No one want to deal with the problem because the real purpose is to create Haos, pain, misery. poverty."

I am non of the above. Quite the opposite infact. And I am not alone.......

Do you not think, it is simply the greedy manipulating the blitheringly incompetent.

When it comes to politics we have them in truck loads; all over the globe.


Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:29 | 1303957 anony
anony's picture

Reality is for people with no imagination.

99.99.9 % of the people on the planet are living in an imaginary world. 

They think the sun rises, there is life after death, and that reality TV is real.

What hope, for christ's sake, is there?

They all hope to die before their beliefs are destroyed and guess what? So far, all of them have.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:16 | 1303904 max2205
max2205's picture

That's it.? I think any posts should be at least 100 words....

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:42 | 1304132 PD Quig
PD Quig's picture

Believe me, with George Washington, less is definitely the way to go...I'd like to see his posts clock in at < 100 characters (spaces included)

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 01:05 | 1304192 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

I'd like to see his articles disappear completely.

GW tells us what we already know.  In this case we already know no one is attacking the real problem.  He keeps hammering away on a dead horse.

GW has no original thought.  His articles make no point and have no point.  They're worthless, a waste of ZH resources / bandwidth.

And calling him "George Washington" is an insult to the real George Washingtion, a real man standing on his own repulation, not some gutless plaigerizer playing off other people's repulation.

If TD wants to maintain the integrity of ZH, he'll have to get rid of worthless contributors like GW ...and Leo K ...and CD.

TPTB aren't attacking the real problem because they don't want to attack the real problem.

The real problem is bankers enriching themselves at the expense of nations, plundering the wealth of nations via their ability to create currency out of thin air and loan it out at interest to irrespnsible governments around the world, who in turn saddle their populations with that debt and interest 

...and yes the American government is the most irresponsible of all.


Tue, 05/24/2011 - 03:38 | 1304345 Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture


If TD wants to maintain the integrity of ZH, he'll have to get rid of worthless contributors like GW ...and Leo K ...and CD.

Or get rid of guys like you.


Tue, 05/24/2011 - 04:20 | 1304363 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

Typical government-esque response.  Don't get rid of the problem, get rid of the whistleblowers.

GW is doing the same thing on ZH banksters are doing in America, being a bloodsucking leech.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 02:13 | 1304287 Dugald
Dugald's picture

Well said, and needs to be regularly repeated.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:28 | 1303954 tired1
tired1's picture

Just wake me up when something really big happens. Could be any day, then again.....

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:14 | 1303899 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

No, NF is pretty solid when it comes to political economy in general, and the specific catastrophics of globalization.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 04:27 | 1304370 TheMadNumismatist
TheMadNumismatist's picture

Ferguson is a stooge of the Rothschilds

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:48 | 1304149 Fox Moulder
Fox Moulder's picture

But he's a history professor not an economist.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 04:19 | 1304361 TheMadNumismatist
TheMadNumismatist's picture

Ferguson is a stooge of the Rothschilds.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 04:14 | 1304359 TheMadNumismatist
TheMadNumismatist's picture

Ferguson is a stooge of the Rothschilds.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 04:13 | 1304357 TheMadNumismatist
TheMadNumismatist's picture

Ferguson is a stooge of the Rothschilds.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 01:21 | 1304237 luciusfargo
luciusfargo's picture

Joseph Stiglitz, Mr What's-Another-Trillion?, is a Nobel prize-winning economist. I think I'll take the history professor, thanks. 

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 05:31 | 1304391 BoeingSpaceliner797
BoeingSpaceliner797's picture

Allow me to split the hair of the phrase, "Nobel prize-winning economist."  While the following information can, in fact, be found at the link below, nowhere do I see that the economics prize is an actual Nobel prize.  It may be "In Memory of Alfred Nobel," but this is very separate and distinct from "Nobel Peace Prize" or "Nobel Prize in Physics."

From that site, "In 1968, Sveriges Riksbank (Sweden's central bank) established the Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!