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As Egyptian Anger Swells, Will America (And Its Regional Interests) Be Targeted Next: "They Are Attacking Us With American Weapons"
So far all attempts by the flailing Mubarak regime to stem the revolution and return life to normal in Egypt have failed, and at this point the fate of the president appears to be sealed, with its final resolution just a matter of time. The one key trade off to delaying the inevitable, however, is that the US, and specifically its Egypt-centered policies, which had far has been largely absent from the rioters' rhetoric, is starting to appear more and more often as a subject of discussion.... and not in a flattering way. Opposition leader Mohammed ElBaradei, who has just joined protesters in Cairo's main Tahrir Square, is expected to have a major speech in which he may or may not focus public anger on duplicitous US policies, which at that point will crystallize the Obama administration's hypocrisy in the eyes of Egypt. This will certainly not make progressing US national interests in the region any easier. And if ElBaradei's earlier remarks are any indication, the US is about to become very hated in Egypt. Per Agence France Presse: "“The American government cannot ask the Egyptian people to believe that a
dictator who has been in power for 30 years will be the one to
implement democracy,” ElBaradei told US network CBS from Cairo. “You
are losing credibility by the day. On one hand you’re talking about
democracy, rule of law and human rights, and on the other hand you’re
lending still your support to a dictator that continues to oppress his
people,” added ElBaradei, the former head of the UN’s International
Atomic Energy Agency. His recommendations to President Barack Obama’s administration were
blunt: “You have to stop the life support to the dictator and root with
the people." On the other hand, with the US favorability rating in Egypt at an all time low of 17% in 2010, there just may not be much room to fall for the way the US is perceived by the broader Egyptian population.
More from AFP:
ElBaradei said Mubarak’s regime was reaching its end.
“He absolutely has to leave. This is not me, this is 85 million Egyptians,” he said.
The opposition leader told CNN that he has “been mandated by the people who organize these demonstrations, to agree on a national unity government.”
“And I hope that I would -- I should be in touch soon with the army and we need to work together.”
In a separate interview with CNN, ElBaradei predicted a rapid end to Mubarak’s regime.
“It will happen that he has to leave the country within the next three days. There is no way out as I see,” ElBaradei told the network.
But when asked if he wanted Obama to publicly ask Mubarak to step down, ElBaradei hesitated.
“It’s better for President Obama not to appear that he is the last one to say to President Mubarak, ‘It’s time for you to go.’”
As for how America is perceived in Egypt, the WaPo has compiled a good summary:
In a dusty alleyway in downtown Cairo, Gamal Mohammed Manshawi held out a dirty plastic bag Saturday afternoon. Inside were smashed gas canisters and the casings of rubber bullets that he said Egyptian police had fired at anti-government demonstrators.
"You see," the 50-year-old lawyer said, displaying the items. On the bottom of each were the words "Made in the USA."
"They are attacking us with American weapons," he yelled as men gathered around him.
In the streets of Cairo, many protesters are now openly denouncing the United States for supporting President Hosni Mubarak, saying the price has been their freedom. They say the Obama administration has offered only tepid criticism of a regime that has received billions of dollars in U.S. aid.
Tell America that we get to choose our president," Manshawi said. "We choose him, not them."
U.S. officials "speak about their own interest, not ours," said Ahmed Abu Dunia, who said he planned to demonstrate every day until Mubarak is gone. "The Egyptians love Egypt."
...
"We believe America is against us," said Emad Abdel Halim, 31. "Until now, Obama didn't talk to the Egyptian people. He didn't support the Egyptian people."
As the violence moves ever more steadily North and East, the increasingly discredited US foreign policy will be put ever more to the test. With the US increasingly reliant on the good will of the BRIC axis, it just may be that for once it is what Russia and China demand as the final geopolitical outcome of the region that is what transpires, instead of what Hillary Clinton's view of what is best for the middle east. And with that the era of US international "globocop" hegemony may well be over. Thank you Bernank.
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USA is allied with corrupt dictators around the world and is proud of it. Read this explanation when the Saudi "prince" is asked about corruption in Saudi Arabia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia
A right decision is being made by the people of Islamic middle east countries. Instead of attacking the USA by fomenting terrorism and encouraging it tacitly, they are now going after their leadership that has been ruling over them with an iron fist.
Tanks for the update!
This is fantastic stuff, kids. Al Jazeera is the new CNN. Corrupt Arab dictators are tumbling like dominoes in revolutions brought on, not by cynical or greedy American military intervention, but by grassroots-driven, new technology and new media supported rebellion. The real danger here is if Obama is too much of a coward (as I wrote that I thought, if he is too much of a coward? IF??) to defy the special interests who are terrified by shifts in the status quo. If Obama chickens out, U.S. influence in Arab world will be badly damaged and he will be labeled a hypocrite. Which, of course, he is, but the last we need is more anger towards us over there because that will only strengthen the appeal of violent reactionary forces here and a return of the Bush-Cheney cabal.
Al Jazeera is the new CNN
no, Al Jazeera is CNN but with a different political agenda
CNN lost ALL credibility after admitting that they went along with Saddam Hussein's propaganda policies in order to keep access in Baghdad. "The most trusted name in News"; Bah, humbug!
CNN, especially HLN, went Jerry Springer a long time ago.
Looks like they are going to send a little hurt back our way........
Bedouin tribesman have reportedly taken control of two towns in the Sinai Peninsula. These two towns are the closest to the Gaza Strip and right next to the border with Israel. There were reports yesterday that Bedouin tribes had besieged a police station in Suez and it appears that these riots have spread. This would effectively end the Mubarak dictatorship’s control of the region. There are no reports of the Egyptian military stepping in here.
The more disturbing news is a threat that has been made by the tribes if Mubarak does not step down. According to one report coming from Time Magazine they are willing to attack the Suez Canal if Mubarak does not leave. The Suez Canal currently is where a third of the world’s oil and six percent of all products passes through. A seizure of the Canal could spike oil prices beyond the current $90 level, perhaps over $110. This could come to pass despite the fact that Egypt is not a major oil producer.
The U.S. and Great Britain will seize the Canal, if necessary, to make sure it stays open. You've already stated its importance to international trade.
There is almost always a US carrier group in the region, this time it's the Lincoln. That's a pretty narrow waterway for 100+ planes to monitor.
More on this please. Linkage. This is definitely interesting news.
Hillary: Now is the time for a National dialogue.
They're having one bitch. It goes: Mubarak, GTFO or we burn this motherfucker down!
It's pathetic. The US has no credibility in the eyes of these protestors. Hey, Hillary, you're full of shit and all of Egypt knows it, so piss off.
+100.
Self determination is the super villains greatest nightmare.
When Egypt rises from the current mess it will hopefully no longer be a tool for those who oppress the entire world.I hope the Egyptians succeed and actually become a truly free people.
kumbaya
This is a catch 22 - between a rock and a hard place - Political pincer movement moment that all these fools have put themselves into.
There are only 2 outcomes possible to this crises in Egypt (one or the other)
1. Mubarak steps down
result: The Contagion spreads
2. Mubarak does not step down
result: The Contagion spreads
Here comes THE CHANGE !
Question: How are the HFT computers going to communicate in this afternoons Egyptian market if their net is down. ?
They no longer need a net. Skynet has arrived.
Mohamed El Baradei was sent over there by Soros/Brezinzki they belong to the International Crisis Group while he may talk about the US you can be assured he is another puppet -- by LMAOLORI
The key to bringing truth to the Egyptian political discussion is to better define the role of Israel in these decades of U.S. stifling of Arab interests.
ElBaradei may have many political connections but it’s very difficult to believe that he is a sympathizer of the Israeli-U.S. anti-Arab position. A transition in power is taking place in Egypt. And any political power in the world from Brussels to Goldman Sachs to Putin and Soros is immediately reviewing any connection it can use with the coming new leadership in Cairo.
With ElBaradei any relationships that he has had in the past may dissolve as he pushes for influence in Cairo. The man is politically astute; he has all kinds of connections; a politician must negotiate to influence his enemies, not just his friends.
Consider this published by this Israel News this past April :
ElBaradei: Israel occupation only understands force; Former IAEA chief expresses support for Palestinian resistance, calls Gaza ‘world’s biggest jail”
Former IAEA Chief Mohamed ElBaradei, who is considering contending in Egypt's presidential elections next year, expressed his support for the "Palestinian resistance" while slamming Israel.
In a report published Tuesday, the experienced diplomat said that Palestinian violence was the only path open to the Palestinian people, because "the Israeli occupation only understands the language of violence." …
ElBaradei (67), who returned to Cairo last February, has not officially announced that he will run in the elections, but behind the scenes a campaign is already underway, including visits to mosques and churches, and photo ops with public figures. A month ago he even established a national "foundation" for democratic reform in Egypt.
According to the report from the UPI news agency, ElBaradei started the ball rolling with a meeting Monday with members of his movement, thus making it clear to Israel how relations between the states will be after the elections – if he wins. According to Ibrahim Nawar, a senior figure in the movement, ElBaradei also said, "The peace process has become a stupid joke which we talk about without achieving any progress."
The former International Atomic Energy Agency leader criticized the fence which Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak set up along the Gaza Strip border. The fence "hurts Egypt's reputation," he said. "It appears to be participation in the siege of Gaza, which has become the world's largest prison."
"The logical solution to the problem," he continued, "would be to close the tunnels and open border crossings while creating a free trade zone in Rafah where Palestinians can trade and then return to Gaza."
ElBaradei also sent a message to his supporters, who have invested great hope in him for the presidential elections in 2011, to put pressure on Mubarak for democratic reforms. He called on all the opposition parties to boycott the parliamentary elections, due this year, if amendments are not made to the constitution to ensure transparency.
The participation of the opposition in the elections under current conditions, he said, will end in a landslide
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3875636,00.html
El-Baradei has defended Iran, Muslim Brotherhood, and other radical muslim notions against human rights, along with UN supremacy on issues. Not a good choice for democracy and human rights.
But the perfect pawn to create chaos for the Brzezinski/Kissinger (powered by hate) "elite". If Egyptians think some politician will save them from the wrath of Bernanke's printing press, we will do this excercise all over again next year, or sooner. One of these states will get the picture soon enough: economic policy is flawed at its core.
There are a lot of mysteries in the world. But one of them is not Henry Kissinger.
Let there be no confusion; he is pro-war, pro-Empire, pro-investment bank, pro-world government and pro-Israel.
It is heresy to link his name with ElBaradei. Mohamed ElBaradei may be radical and he may have radical friends but the stand off in Cairo hardly calls for Gerald Ford.
Lots of dinero to be made supplying Materiel (both weapons and peaceful stuff!) to Gaza, with the Iranians on the other side of the trade. Look for Israel's position to get a little more constrained.
What we'll have is the commie groups marching and ranting for (more) marxism in America.
They're already hyperventilating at the prospects of co-opting any instability if you check out their websites.
They see inflation and social unrest in America as their last big chance.
The last election proved Obama couldn't do it with his vampire charm, so the Fed and the commies will try.
Goal is IMF (UN) to be the new global central bank and enforcer, with a global fiat currency, eg., the Bancor. It'll be just like our FED, only bigger and better!
To the best of my knowledge, the only remaining "commie groups" left in North America are in Montreal. And they won't acknowledge you in English if you challenge them.
Maybe so, but there's still a lot of old hippies here, hung up on some sort of kindergarten notions of "fairness" and "social justice", whatever those mean!
Gotta like the United States representational government. 75-90% of the population want an end to the BS wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Yet Obama reports with the glee the slaughter of their people with predator drones almost daily.
And 40% of the population vote.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReEVb6hCnzs
Obama knows that the American people will riot over $5.00 oil. That is why he continues the wars.
The Puppet and Thief - We will do everything possible to keep our puppet in power. If this fails we have several new puppets to choose from. Such as our immediate selection of intelligence chief Omar Suleiman as Vice-President.
Also the freedoms I demand for the people of Egypt will be the very freedoms I will deprive every American. My goal for the next 2 years? Transform America into a Police State on steroids. America will be the ultimate model of an absolute authoritarian police state. You won't be able to take a crap until we know you're thinking about it. The envy of every dictator we control on this planet like our great friend and murderer Hosni Mubarak.
They are attacking us with American weapons
Evidence that we do still manufacture something in this country.
$38B in exports last year; there's no business quite like ripping off taxpayers to arm our (current or soon to be) enemies.
Made In America.
C'mon, Egyptians, what are you gonna believe: Your eyes or what you actually know about America.
Oh, wait a minute . . .
I laughed
most of the world hates Israel and because of that hate the USA.....i can no longer say i blame them
I would suggest most people hate the zionists in Israel and the criminal reserve/military complex of the USA.Just because we aren't particularly discriminating doesn't mean other people aren't as well.
If this spreads to Jordan, Israel is screwed. You know what this means the Israeli lobby will demand more foreign military aid to Israel. The House of Saud in another hand are not that popular and Islamic zealots are on the rise. So in a few months we could see sparks at that region. The neocons of course will use the "Wahhabi Islamic" bogey man for us to intervene. America's control of the mideast is slipping and very soon we will have a Saigon moment at that region.
I loved the last Saigon moment, albeit 10 years too late. I particularly enjoyed watching Hueys go over the side of carrier decks so more Hueys filled with gold could land. What you didn't see was sailors shoving Viets off the deck on the other side to make more room for gold storage.
You can see the movement in the various governments; they know the Mubarak regime is over.
-
Saeed said Arabs have grown disgruntled with U.S. domination of their oil wealth, military occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan and its support for "totalitarian" leaders in the region.
"The Americans and (President Barack) Obama must be losing sleep over the popular revolt in Egypt," he said. "Now, Obama must understand that the people have woken up and are ready to unseat the tyrant leaders who remained in power because of U.S. backing."
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110129/D9L25G0G1.html
...and Barry O and the Billary's think they can tell them what to do?
I wonder if they can make out the "Made in USA" on the bottoms of the F-16s.
This is the second American/Israeli sponsored dictatorship to have a bit of trouble after Tunisia. I am pretty sure the CIA is negotiating with the opposition leader right now to preserve American interests. When we have a deal, Hillary will change the fence sitting posture and proclaim it is time for a change.
I agree with your post, but just want to highlight. . .
whatever "hillary" (or Obama, Bernanke, et al) says/does is part of the job description, no? whoever occupies the appointed role would be scripted to say whatever they are told, yes?
just trying to up the awareness from "individual" roles played to focus on the SYSTEM that changes actors but rarely overall plots.
ElBarade seems to be the darling of China:
"...The United States initially voiced opposition to his election to a third four-year term in 2005.[14] In a May 2005 interview with the staff of the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Lawrence Wilkerson, the chief of staff to former U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, charged former Undersecretary of State for Arms Control and International Security John Bolton with an underhanded campaign to unseat ElBaradei.[15] “Mr. Bolton overstepped his bounds in his moves and gyrations to try to keep [ElBaradei] from being reappointed as [IAEA] head,” Wilkerson said. The Washington Post reported in December 2004 that the Bush administration had intercepted dozens of ElBaradei’s phone calls with Iranian diplomats and was scrutinizing them for evidence they could use to force him out.[15] IAEA spokesman Mark Gwozdecky said the agency worked on "the assumption that one or more entities may be listening to our conversations". "It's not how we would prefer to work, but it is the reality. At the end of the day, we have nothing to hide," he said. Iran responded to the Washington Post reports by accusing the United States of violating international law in intercepting the communications.[16]
The United States was the only country to oppose ElBaradei's reappointment and eventually failed to win enough support from other countries to oust ElBaradei. On 9 June 2005, after a meeting between U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and ElBaradei, the United States dropped its objections. Among countries that supported Elbaradei were China, Russia, Germany and France. China praised his leadership and objectivity.[14] and supported him for doing "substantial fruitful work, which has maintained the agency's role and credit in international non-proliferation and promoted the development of peaceful use of nuclear energy. His work has been universally recognized in the international community. China appreciates Mr. El Baradei's work and supports his reelection as the agency's director-general."[17] France, Germany, and some developing countries, have made clear their support for ElBaradei as well.[15] Russia issued a strong statement in favor of re-electing him as soon as possible.
ElBaradei was unanimously re-appointed by the IAEA Board on 13 June 2005..."
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_ElBaradei
Bad spot for the US then, we are negotiating against China. ElBaradei should be able to cut a great deal. Don't think he can be taken out now, massive chaos would ensue. But, I am sure there are many contingency plans going on right now around the world.
The bad spot for the US is the fact we have no negotiators in the same league as the Chinese. Maybe if Bolton were to die his mustache brown or his hair white we would stand a chance.
“Mr. Bolton (American neo-con and extreme supporter of Israeli interests) overstepped his bounds in his moves and gyrations to try to keep [ElBaradei] from being reappointed as [IAEA] head,” Wilkerson said.
As opinions come in on ElBaradei, his views and associates, this is what I might consider a glowing recommendation for ElBaradei.
Drop Hillary on their asses!
Baradei is another Khomenei. This shapes up like Clinton's Black Hawk Down, and Carter's Iran.
Baradei goes back a long way with the brotherhood and now has their support
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870483270457611413293459762...
Good luck with this. There is only one outcome for the US. Israel is staring down the gates of hell.
He. He.
US, Israeli, and Mubarak administrations providing free iTune download of Tom Petty's "I Won't Back Down" to their personnel.
China and Russia will be providing free downloads of...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIbYRfe7m0k
Israel != Egypt
Printfast, that's probably a pretty good assessment, but premature by a decade or so. Hamas will now be legitimized so to speak and it is good for Iran too as the brotherhood is the common denominator both Sunni and Shia i.e. the Iranian revolution. But it is politics and the stakes and spoils are high notwithstanding the idealism of the MB and its surrogates. Their common dislike for Israel will need to be tempered with the knowledge that Israel would prevail in a war and would not hesitate to use nukes if directly threatened. The MB have shown themselves to be in for the long game so for now I would suggest that the Kingdom would have more to be concerned about than Israel. And the reality is that Egypt is a hand-full for its next government not to mention political infighting and the military who are its real rulers and have been since Nasser. Egypt will be on the receiving end of lucrative overtures from China, the US, the EU and Russia and will play it for as much as they can get. In the process Israel will be more isolated than it currently is; the wild-card will be when that isolation becomes, out of necessity, outward aggression.
Any chance they BTFD in BFE?
+1
Well, I see the provinces are beginning to get restless as the first cracks in the Empire become evident.
It's really telling.
Americans bitch all the time that all the crap they buy (and don't use) are "Made in China."
But they don't complain or seem to realize that all the tools of oppression and enforcement used in countries like Egypt and the Shah's Iran are ALL "Made in the U.S.A."
Including the riot police tactics.
"They Are Attacking Us With American Weapons"
Inflation...because sometimes nuclear weapons are not enough.
Many of these posts here make me want to scream with the ignorant crap posted.
From watching world events here is a saying we all should live by, "Control is an illusion. Influence is a reality." I am sure someone has said it before me but it applies to everything from raising your kids to international diplomacy and affairs. I live by it and watch the world struggle with it, including dictators.
Let me say, that while the U.S. has been a supporter of Mubarak for reasons that should be obvious (peace with Israel and suppressing Muslim militants) it is not because we love dictators. When you grow up you realize in life that sometimes you have to make unsavory choices. Choosing which Middle Eastern "leaders", i.e, dictators to support and how much to support them is a study in which least bad choice to make. Egypt could end up like Iran for all we know...in spite of all the conspiracy bullshit that flows from many of the posts. Will Western leaders and NG powers be lining up to see who will come after Mubarak and influence them? You bet! It's because it matters to all of us. Would we like to see an Egyptian George Washinton, Jefferson, and Adams? Sure! However, we don't even have those guys in power in the West any more. Unless you are four years old you know the most likely outcome is some sort of dictator, maybe military, maybe a KGB/CIA type like Putin, maybe a theocratic one, etc. You might get a pro political figure like El Baradei, but see how long any democratic type lasts. We will have to deal with that person or form of government for better or worse. We don't get to choose it. Egyptians will in some way.
The strongest predictor of how a country will do is its culture. It is why most of Africa and the Middle East languishes. The question is whether or not Egypt or any other Middle Eastern country can have a successful pluralistic society. Based on current history, the answer is "No." It's not because of the USA, Britain, the Soviets or even Israel. It's their own fault. They don't currently have the cultural bones to make one. That's why I think trying to sort of impose democracy on Iraq, Afghanistan or any other country there is most likely doomed to failure. If the Arab Democrats win, the Arab Republicans will want to rebel and kill them or vice versa. The Sunni's want to dominate and kill the shiites who would do the same if in power. Popular elections are just temporary fictions that offer cover and excuses for both sides of any issue.
Anwar Sadat, Mubarak's predecessor made peace with Israel because he realized that continuous wars were not good for his country. He made peace and broke with the Soviets who supported his predecessor Abdel Nassar. He didn't live long. Mubarak stepped into that vacuum and supplied stability. Yes, he probably supplied it in all the unsavory ways Arab-Middle Eastern dictators do it.
I am a far right libertarian type but the thing that bugs me about libertarians is their/our childish view of the world. I do not support lots of foreign aid, intrigue or manipulation of other countries. However, you have to deal with things as they really are and not as you'd like. We were allies with the Soviet bastards in WWII. We let them have most of Europe. Remember, they invaded Poland and the Baltic States as friends of Hitler in the beginning. We fought with relatively corrupt authoritarian rulers in Vietnam against the ruthless commie bastards. Yes, they were louts but look which way people ran as the commies advanced. They didn't run to N. Vietnam, N. Korea, China or the Soviet Union. They went anywhere BUT those places.
I am no insider but here is the way I see it. No one knows what will happen or who will end up in power and for how long. Odds are they won't be friendly to the U.S. or the West in general including Israel. Odds are it won't be democratic even if it starts that way. Odds are China will make nice if they are hostile to us. China doesn't give a shit about autocrats, plutocrats or democrats. They are about creating influence and access to strategic resources they will need including trade routes.
The CIA, George Soros, the Saudis, Zionists, Putin, world bankers or the tri-lateral commission are not controlling the results and don't how it will end. Once the fuse is lit and it is, you don't know how this thing will blow up or end. Mubarak is not even gone, yet. Stay tuned on that, though, lol.
I actually wish the people of Egypt well. I truly do. I hope they can depose their dictator and set up a country and society that works for everyone there. However, that is not the history of that culture. It tends toward the intolerant and the eradication of everyone different, particularly different religions. They may set up some sort of representative government but do you suppose that the few remaining Christians or others will have any civil rights? Will they be glad Mubarak is gone, too?
It is the problem of all revolutions. Everyone is clear on who they are against. It gets a little fuzzy on exactly who and what they are for. That's why the American Revolution was and is an historical anomaly. It was a comparatively well organized and lead revolution with specific goals. I do not think Egyptions will be so lucky.
I should correct myself. Most communist revolutions after the first Soviet-Bolshevik one were pretty clear on their goals, too. They set up new more effective dictators with more effective methods,rhetoric and State worship. In some ways, it makes the American Revolution even more unique.
the NEXT american revolution will not be so well organized....there will be many many sides
Stories have been coming in so fast this one was lost in the shuffle:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/washington-state-joins-movement-public-...
You sound confused and not Libertarian.
Dilution of responsibility and all.
Incidentally, it shows that the US prefer dictatorship anytime it suits their interests. It might not show that the US love dictature but it shows that the US does not love that much democracy as a normal consequence is that democracy as an expression of sovereignty comes with conflicting interests.
It shows that the US is not ready to accept this normal consequence of democracy.
Very few in the western world wish them a Washington or anything like that because those guys thought not of the foreign interests but theirs.
A thing you unsurprisingly failed to accomplish as you keep assessing the egyptian situation through the scope of the Western world interests.
The only way you got to think of those areas is if they favour the western world interests. Which is contrary to the idea they should get a Washington.
They already had thousands of Washington as you wish them to get, guys who live to support the western interests.
Uh, no. When you come to power, you suddenly exhibit that all the talks you made to come to power was only talks and that your first priority is to stay in power, which leads to decisions that are no longer compatible with the song you sang before coming to power. That is what the US is exhibiting: a renegation of the speech on which they ascend to power.
What duplicity. The eradication process has been much more efficient in the US. It really shows that some US citizens are unable to depict themselves as they are.
In 200 years, the US has shown a much higher efficiency to eradicate non christian religions on their soil than these guys have managed on their own soil in 1200 years.
The US, while starting with different sets of beliefs, is now nearly completely Christian. Where are the other faiths, especially the non Abrahamic faiths?
A very real possibility. Traditionally, through the US model, the losing side is bribed into accepting defeat. At start, in the US, the process was strongly easened by the consensual option of expanding on Indian lands through land grabbing. Making the struggle for power less relevant as a third party would soak up the defeat costs: Indians would sponsor the American Dream. So why bother on the guy who is in power? What matters is the prosperity enabled by the land grabbing.
All these countries have to wonder where they are going to find that third party to offload their internal issues and ease their internal tensions.
Indians are a pretty scarce resource nowadays.
"They Are Attacking Us With American Weapons"
Inflation...because sometimes nuclear weapons are not enough.
A new Sharia Dictator will be running Egypt soon enough. Those of you who are drinking the anti-American kool-aid need to open your minds to the reality of the propaganda machine. Where is there democracy in the middle east? Where? How about Africa? What makes you think Egypt or Tunisia will be any different? All the freedom and human rights rhetoric is pure, unadulterated bull shit fabricated to decieve the sheeple into an emotional outburst. The game is not to allow the sheep to rule but to be herded. Focus the hate onto America, away from the new oppressor, and entrap the sheep.
However, I do not defend American foreign policy.
That is what the grown up socialists and statists understand very clearly. They let the childish democratic socialist dreamers get the ball rolling for them.
By that logic, any group of people that wish to get themselves out from underneath a dictatorial regime is just being used by socialists and statists. That is straight up retarded.
That's not the point at all. The point is that IN socialism which is statism the only real lasting goal is power itself. It may start as appearing beneficent and for our own good, generally speaking a collective good, but it devolves to ever more authority in an effort to "control" the populace. It also ends up passing out bennies to favored groups and penalizing if not eliminating the competition. That is how the quotation reads.
You can overthrow a dictatorial regime for any number of goals. Most often, you get a new flavor of dictator. France went from a King to an Emperor. Big change. The Russians went from a Czar to a Soviet President and even more people were jailed, reeducated and murdered. I liked the new movie, "The Way Back" where they said that the entire country (USSR) had become a prison camp. In America we replaced a king with a Constitutional Republic. It was an uneven risky process that turned out well...so far. So you miss my point or I did not explain it well enough.
If you have any doubts from my pen name and comments here I despise collectivism in all its forms. Even the kindly grandfatherly looking forms.
Actually, they went from a King to a Republic to an Emperor. Big change.
All these countries did not have the US chance: that is an extremely weak neighbour that would gladfully sponsor the internal tensions linked to the struggle over the power apparatus.
Democracy can easily be achieved in the Mid-East if you set the bar low enough. For example, a country with public elections of high-ranking government officials selected solely from one of two political parties with virtually identical policies and platforms is called "democracy" in some parts of the world.
Unlike, say, the USA, where government's actions are strongly representative of the will and desires of the citizenry and correspond so closely with public interest and sentiment.
Foreign Aid is #1 on the list that Americans want to cut (59% favor cut, 37% oppose), according to a recent Gallup Poll:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/145790/Americans-Oppose-Cuts-Education-Social...
How many would change their vote if it meant they had to ride a bike to work?
"Game over . Game over man. What the f**k are we gonna do? what are we gonna do?"
i say we nuke the sonofabitch from orbit.....it's the only way to be sure...
"May you live in interesting times." -- Chinese Proverb (curse)
Although it has been repeated often, and at risk of being both redundant and repetitious, it is becoming apparent that a global 'tipping point' has been reached. It also seems (at least to me) that this endgame is being masterfully engineered and coordinated.
As has equally been pointed out, the manipulation of global food supplies to cause mass hunger and/or starvation would also serve as a means towards achieving an orchestrated collapse and die-off.
I'm currently educating myself on the more advanced hypotheses and postulates which comprise real-world application of game theory.
Chaos remains the random variable. Can it be solved for?
Chaos theory makes much more sense if you substitute "energy" for "chaos." As in bottom up energy vs. top down order. They don't cancel each other out, because they are two sides of the same coin. Energy manifests information and information defines energy. Whether it's a society or a single organism, energy propels it forward and information steers it. When there is insufficient energy to motivate the top down order, it decays. Think of a car. You keep having to put money into it to keep it going and at the point it's no longer worth the effort, it starts to get torn apart, either quickly or slowly, depending on outside factors, i.e. energy and order.
Just as any complex system is composed of cooperating subsystems, these subsystems exist in some degree of competition in order to maintain balance, so do groups of complex organisms exist in a balance of competition and cooperation which serves to maintain balance in the larger ecosystem. When one part gets to big, it throws the ecosystem out of whack and it collapses back to a point at which balance is restored, usually by killing off whatever caused the instability, since that entity required a larger ecosystem to function. That's why top predators are susceptible to ecosystem collapse. The people at the top no more understand what's happening than a lion understands Darwin. They just happen to profit from their situation.
Of course, it is entirely rigged in their favor, but that has made them complacent. Otherwise they wouldn't be destroying the value of the money in order to save particular banks.
The fact is that money is a public contract and any stored value is a function of broad public faith in the sanctity of that contract. So when those tasked with managing it, destroy faith in this contract out of personal greed, they are destroying the basis of their power.
Very well put! And thought provoking.
Good post, and well elucidated.
My assertion was that this series of events was not the result of unintended consequences due to resource competition/depletion, but a planned deconstruction of the entire geopolitical landscape. A controlled demolition, if you will. Perhaps my theory belongs within the realm of conspiracy, as there is much speculation with regard to the degree of power wielded by a global elite. Currency debasement is one such mechanism that can be manipulated.
The question remaining in my mind would still be whether or not all of this is planned/orchestrated or not. And if it is in fact a planned series of events, to whose benefit?
There are people riding the wave, but only Mother Nature controls the wave.
It seems there is some great conspiracy because there is a large feedback loop at work. Capitalism requires ever greater demand for its product, borrowers for debt, in order to continue, but they are now to the point of sucking the worlds largest governments dry. Now it's downhill for that enormous bubble of notational wealth to which most of the developed world has some small share, in order to be invested with the big boys, but it's deflating and they are throwing everything in the fire to keep it going. The rampant criminality is primarily an effect of panic among the powers that be.
Consider the housing bubble; It wasn't because a bunch of idiots decided to borrow more than they could afford, but because the process needed more debtors and had to lower standards in order to maintain the flow.
beautifully stated brodix!
all the more reason to be careful of the info-feed, sourced.
We are all expendable in one way or another. Just make sure you invest your energy in something going in the direction you think it should.
The powers that be are in charge, until they are not. Just like Mubarack.
If they really knew what they were doing, they wouldn't be sacrificing the currencies to save the banks. If they destroy the system in order to try saving their own little part of it, they lose anyway. What good is the penthouse, when the whole building falls down?
You just have to sell it to some foreign investment pool at half price, using the pictures of what it used to look like. They will want the pictures when THEY sell it for double what you charged them.
Whee, this investing stuff is easy!
Until some party pooper comes along and wants to take delivery.
will they lose? will the building fall down?
i ask y'all this; is the whole spectacle a sham or is everything "according to plan"?
i still hear people, to this day, clamoring about the invasion of iraq/afpak being such a foolish move, they's crazy-dont know what they're doing.......obviously now we know that what we saw was a move in a bigger game....and it made alotta people alotta $cheddar$....the whole building is burning but there's plenty of buildings nearby and the penthouse has a catwalk....what say you? do you really think they're that jacked up or do you/we underestimate the cunning and ability TPTB have in doing what they do. they appear rather stoopid and doltish......but, look at the track record of their ability to stay one step ahead.
I think it's a works program for the military. If the dollar shorts out, it will pull the plug on the whole thing. Put yourself in these generals boots. Do they have some grand strategy, or are they just pumping the stock? What do we get out of it? Gas pipelines and heroin to Europe?
It is likely that the top brass at the Pentagon have war-gamed many possible scenarios vis-a-vis any Continuity of Government operations. I would suspect that the possible overextension of active duty military forces around the world represent a significant concern. It may become necessary to implement a rapid draw-down of military troops stationed abroad for the expressed purpose of COG contingencies here in the USA. As to the practicality of such a massive military mobilization, there remain obvious logistical impediments.
a "works program for the military" - yes, there's that, they use hella amounts of oil & other resources - I often wonder about the wild card of the "privatised" mercenary corps, which is pretty embedded in the corporate governance amrka has currently.
Blackwater was "called out" for Katrina, and the industry has grown hugely in the past decade - when folk wave a "don't worry" hand about the military siding against the public, one can't help but wonder just who is IN those uniforms, including special police forces - really wouldn't be so hard to embed high waged mercenary forces just about anywhere. . .
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Private_Military_Corporations
Wow, Zero is on fire tonight, is there any popcorn left? You guys are great.