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Elizabeth Warren On Too Big To Fail, Paulson's Generous Taxpayer Gift, And The Death Of The Middle Class

Tyler Durden's picture


Harvard professor Elizabeth Warren provides a much needed sober perspective of Bernanke's Doctrine of Mandatory Global Moral Hazard, by discussing just how broken the banking system continues to be. 

"My view is any institution that is Too Big To Fail is one that distorts the economy and ultimately is very costly to all of us."

Most notably, Warren on the intention by Wall Street and by the administration to eradicate the middle class:

"The middle class became a resource to be pulled from - "the turkey at the thanksgiving dinner" - the middle class has gotten shakier and shakier, it has become hollowed out. The middle class makes us who we are. The middle class gives us political stability. It is safe to walk our streets because we have a middle class. And every time we hollow [the middle class] out we take the risk that something of what we know as America begins to die. That's what scares me."

Must watch.


h/t Alexis


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Thu, 10/15/2009 - 15:15 | 100035 Sisyphus
Sisyphus's picture


Elizabeth Warren is fighting a losing battle. The sheeple do not care. You want an example. Here it is. This gentleman is unemployed. And instead of being outraged at the bailouts, the economic condition of the country, the massive printing experiment that is going on, and doing something about it; he is more interested in his footbal team. He and other like minded people have raised money for a billboard to show their discontent for the Buffalo Bills football team. And he is being featured in Yahoo as a hero. Try that to raise awareness about the Fed and the wall street and you will: 1) not get enought support and 2) written off as a nut job.

Nice job Mr. Ryan Abshagen. We need more like you in this country. Otherwise, how will the pillage continue without anybody giving a rat's posterior.

Bills fans rent billboard to advertise discontent


Thu, 10/15/2009 - 16:54 | 100173 Glen
Glen's picture

The dumbing down of America is working a treat. It's also working exceptionally well here in Australia to.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 17:37 | 100228 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

The movie "Idiocracy" comes to mind - a Mike Judge special (and a complete waste of 90 minutes).

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 22:45 | 100519 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Wallstreetpro2 where are you?

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 15:43 | 100072 Jupiter
Jupiter's picture

"And every time we hollow [the middle class] out we take the risk that something of what we know as America begins to die."

Why is that every "mainstream" or "establishment" thinker always qualifies their argument that America is dying with works like "take the risk" and "begins to die".  Other examples (not in this article include) "may result in a prolonged decline of the dollar", "affects the economic stability of future generations", etc.

Let's face it:  America has been in decline since the year 2001, the early part of which we were perhaps at the apex of influence, economic prosperity, personal freedoms, and opportunity for growth.  Unfortunately, 9/11and the administration at that quickly ended this period of relative prosperity.

I wouldn't be surprised to be back in Singapore by next year's end.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 17:37 | 100227 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

wrong. it didn't start in 2001. try 1971 and nixon going off gold. all the supposed growth since then was credit fueled and now that is is being taken away we are going back to the mean. the economic prosperity you speak about was an illusion that was never sustainable if people weren't using mortgage equity as an ATM.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 22:33 | 100510 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Warren is pretty clear in her presentations that middle class take-out has been happening for 30-40 years, most famously comparing 1970 middle class family to 2002/2003/2004 family in her research.

Warren is not a revolutionary, but she is also a rare establishment insider that just calls the facts as she sees them and understands, but her bankruptcy research, how tough it is to stay or move up to middle class-dom in US, she gets how regular people are not the problem but the victims, victims that need to stand back and fight the system that has taken them out, rather than blaming themselves as individual failures and taking it on the chin quietly.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 13:34 | 99902 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

I'd say she should run for president but I know what would happen to her if she did, so it's great to see her doing what too few have the guts to do.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 16:06 | 100105 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

It would not be a single shooter. Keep eyes on the grassy knoll.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 13:34 | 99903 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

And you should be scared Elizabeth, be very scared. Because this process started decades ago (some would point to Nixon dumping the Gold standard or even earlier) and it won't stop until there are two classes in the world, the upper class and everyone else.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:13 | 99949 chet
chet's picture

I would argue we're already there.  Does the top 0.5 percent really see the middle class and poverty class as two seperate entities?  Does it treat them any differently?

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:29 | 99977 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

No they really don't treat them differently BUT the middle class still controls some wealth. Wealth that (it just so happens) was in the process of being transferred to their children by way of inheritance.

What a great time to intercept it (or greatly diminish it's value) don't you think?

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 13:37 | 99907 Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

she is the part of the establishment, and i dont rate her high enough; i have met people with only elementary school diploma who were saying and are saying the same things she is. but smart lady and with a lot of balls talking that way about her own.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 13:58 | 99928 just.a.guy
just.a.guy's picture

Is she tenured?  probably so if she's speaking like that.  Tenured professors are not "part of the establishment" -- they have transcended it.

Surely you wouldn't consider someone like Noam Chomsky of MIT as "part of the establishment"?

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:11 | 99942 Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

i have no idea is she tenured or not; but it certainly can not be good for any school where she teaches for her to talk like that. don't get me wrong, i like the people who say fuck you to the very same system that enabled them to be where they are, but i think she is still a part of it, and thinks in the borders of the system which she is a par of. As for Chomsky; he just doesn't give a shit, and does so in the best way possible. 

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:34 | 99984 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Cheeky - Warren is just Harvard's enfeebled token to counter the effects of Harvard Business School and its alumni. She may have a megaphone bless her, but she will never get the votes or the to the wall backing. Never from the current system that is.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:57 | 100013 TumblingDice
TumblingDice's picture

Her voice is just soft enough so that you are desensitized to what she is saying while at the same time you'd rather go to sleep instead of doing anything about it.

Somebody has to say this on a public venue, but I would much prefer if Arnold Schwarzenegger someone like Jack Bauer would yell it at the top of their lungs on a Sunday morning talk show than her.


Max Keiser is the closest we have so far in terms of that. He doesn't pull punches and if he can just get on the Daily Show or something...

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 15:31 | 100057 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Max has substance, presence and delivery.

Love him or hate him you just don't forget him.

Fri, 10/16/2009 - 08:51 | 100690 agrotera
agrotera's picture

anyone preferring truth to lies has to love and adore Max Keiser!!!

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 15:30 | 100054 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

'but after a while they should stop waving that diploma and actually do something meaningful... '

or even do nothing because it seems more than a coincidence that so many well edcuated people have been at the top of the pyramid these last thirty years.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 15:31 | 100056 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Agreed.  I've worked with and hired some Harvard and HBS graduates and can't reconcile their performance with their degrees.  They all do have a common attribute and that is the ability to talk a great game.  Some just give off a lot of hot air.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 18:06 | 100264 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

I'd say the common attribute is 'expectation'.

The 'talking a great game' bit is certainly not uniformly distributed.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 18:07 | 100268 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

"to talk a great game. Some just give off a lot of hot air."


In her 7+ minutes I didn't here her say anything.

Yes, she talked about being "concerned and worried" and some generalities about "the middle class."

I'm in agreement with just about all of her generalities (although, admittedly, I have to pause every time the name "Michael Moore" was referenced to - as if he was someone worth quoting or referencing), but I kept waiting for her to say something specific or would address all of the worries and concerns that she has for the middle class.

Did I miss it?

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 15:29 | 100053 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

No offense, Cheeky, but you are way out of the loop on this.  The corps have, over the preceding thirty years, specifically endowed sooo many chairs --- along with strings on who gets tenured to such professorial positions, that the entire academic system is gamed as well as the markets (just check out the backgrounds of so many of the econ and biz chairs---and seen how many belong to the Bretton Woods Committee [the most anti-worker, anti-union international lobbyist group for the ultra-rich], along with Peterson Institute [formerly Institute for International Economics], and have done stints at various of the "stink" tanks: Brookings, Cato, Heritage, Aspen, etc., etc.).

While I admire Prof. Warren, she is the odd man/woman out, and as for Chomsky and Zinn, you will find there are specific subjects they are completely mainstream on and will never, ever touch (as in JFK's assassination, 9/11, etc.).  No heroes there with those two.  Whenever anyone (like that fellow in Colorado) who touches one of those off-limits subjects, tenure or no, they get canned. 

Just check back to the history of Thorsten Veblen, and other econ geniuses.  Nope, Chomsky a putz!

And as for Harvard, and those other fraudulent Ivy crud, they swarm with Bretton Woods Committee profs teaching globlaization, offshoring, leveraged buyouts and becoming members of the Predator Class, so they can stick it to the Under Class (which are the only two classes they believe to exist).

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 19:31 | 100360 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

you got a blog?

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:03 | 99933 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

The powers that be feel that people like Warren have utility in our criminal economic system. Warren gives hope to we-the-people and she helps us to delude ourselves into thinking that maybe they will finally stop the thieving. Or at least that Warren will rally the cops and make them stop. Of course, we all know they really won't stop.

But for the vast unwashed herds of sheeple throwing beer cans at the TV when they hear about the monster GS bonuses, Warren is there speaking truth to power (but being ignored by the powerful because that's the game) and igniting hope that someone will save them from the wolves.

Yes, that's cynical but show me a reality different from what I just described and I'll listen. Good luck.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:13 | 99946 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

I believe you are realistic, not cynical.  "Hope for Change" by keeping faith with the system; how many times will Americans fall for it?

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:32 | 99981 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Americans will fall for it right up to the bitter end because the average person doesn't want to give up the American myth and deal with reality.

Why even try to enslave us when we willingly enslave ourselves.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 15:18 | 100037 Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

Buffett is a demagogue, a poster boy for the simulacrum called the American Dream. He is everything that is hyper-real, that is pumped with steroids of PR, he is the epitome of the belief that hard work pays of ( hint; it does not, his daddy helped him,and helped him quite a lot ). Buffett is a greedy pig ready to destroy lives, to destroy every single breathing thing just to keep his position. And he does all that wearing a 200 $ suit, with a smile on his face, wrapped in the packaging of a " self-made billionaire " .

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 15:18 | 100040 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

smart boy, that andy.

Fri, 10/16/2009 - 01:36 | 100608 calgaryschmooze
calgaryschmooze's picture

Kinda like telling the public that "the terists hate us because of our freedoms", but when in actuality, it's "the terists hate us because we're largely a bunch of assholes to most of the world"?



Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:36 | 99987 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Until denial meets the hard unforgiving wall called objective circumstances on an individual bases.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:16 | 99959 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Assuming that's the case, then if she really wanted to create change she would stop talking truth to power and start talking it to the middle class. i.e....get the people fired up, keep them fired up, and create action that established power can't ignore. Wow, I sound like a

[x] * 29 = 870....(time to pull out the calculator...)

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 15:35 | 100061 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

And that is exactly why Elizabeth Warren has absolutely no power in the position she is in (chair of the congressional oversight panel on disbursement of TARP funds), so she can say publicly what she wants, while scumball Barney Franks, forever on their payroll, will then pass a "derivatives regulatory" bill which does absolutely nothing against the most damanging of derivatives and securitization processes.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 16:17 | 100122 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

She's a prof at Harvard, and they did fire Larry Summers, after all. I have no idea how she voted.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 13:42 | 99910 buzzsaw99
Thu, 10/15/2009 - 13:48 | 99917 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I was noticing a very subtle change in the tone of the news the past week or so. But yesterday after the 10,000 DOW close (when GS reported) and again today, it was like a light switch was flipped.

Am I the only one seeing this or are others picking this up? I notice that GS and friends are down on the "good" GS earnings. That's a tell in my book.

What say one and all?

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 13:57 | 99926 Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

washrinse & repeat a la 2008

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:53 | 100007 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Insiders can begin selling again next month, could be front running by smart money traders. Profit taking is always a good idea when the kids are running the candy store.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:19 | 99966 chet
chet's picture

They need to start some sort of panic once the Fed stops buying treasuries.

But sorry SEC, your plan to add transparency and reduce risk in money markets runs counter to the Fed's plan to dump MBS there.  SEC vs. Fed, I wonder who will win that battle?

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 13:53 | 99923 jm
jm's picture

She is irrelevant.  Who cares what she says?  Certainly not the people pulling the strings.

This is how politics always works, just easier to see when things are coming apart at the seams.

Please figure out that no gov't ever looked out for anything but itself.  Then teach this to your sons as soon as they can walk.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:06 | 99937 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

i care what she says.

maybe it's a lack of confidence on my part. but it's helpful to have folks in positions of power that see what i see, and then speak out.

i agree the other powers that be disregard her, and that government is a self perpetuating institution that cares most about its growth, funding and survival.

however, it's good to know that you have allies that will speak up for the home team in the middle (the forgotten man)class.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:14 | 99950 Assetman
Assetman's picture

Your statement is certainly true today, in that EW is obviously irrelevant in the eyes of those currently pulling the strings.

However, if/when the giant Ponzi sceme really unwinds and things get out of hand, people will revolt-- and they will be demanding new, responsible leadership.

In that scenario (of course... debate the plausibility if you will) it will be Elizabth Warren that takes a number at the front of the line.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:46 | 100000 jm
jm's picture

I sincerely wish you are right and I am wrong.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 15:41 | 100067 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

But the giant Ponzi scheme has unwound, and now all the news coming out about the details is predominantly fabricated.  The three most important recent details: the BLS study demonstrating how no actual job creation has taken place in the private sector from Jul 1999 to Jul 2009, the ninth consecutive month of rising unemployment in ALL 372 cities monitored by the BLS, and the ninth consecutive month of falling payroll salaries/hours in ALL 372 cities monitored by the BLS.

It is, as intelligent ones have stated previously, not a jobless recovery (since the last Recovery with jobs was back in 1988) but a jobless economy.

Fri, 10/16/2009 - 00:08 | 100563 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

On point sgt_doom, today the BLS says there were 1.47 million more full time workers in NSA Sept 2009 than Sept 1999. Not very good considering the increase in the work force population, maybe we will all be volunteers. As you say government jobs seem to be up.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:16 | 99958 MinnesotaNice
MinnesotaNice's picture

Actually I believe she is quite relevant and resonates with the middle class... she is a lone voice and when when she speaks she has a strong message that is very different from the talking points that were handed out to all members of the administration, treasury, and federal reserve back in 2008. 

In fact, her message is so strong that no one seems to want to take it on and factually dispute it... no octobox's on CNBC with her involved.  

Additionally the MSM are giving her coverage... and I think over the next 2 years she and her message will become 'the message'.   

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 15:31 | 100055 JR
JR's picture

MinnesotaNice, excellent post.  Truth is never irrelevant, and error does not deserve the support I hear.

It has often been said that the primary stumbling block for third world countries to develop into developing countries is their lack of a strong middle class.  They have their rich, usually individuals connected to the rulers and, of course, they have vast numbers of poor.  But the middle class, that would be the backbone of the development of strong institutions for community development, education, improved standards for labor and above all an emphasis on laws protecting the growth of enterprise and the family, is missing.  In America the middle class is not the individuals throwing beer cans at the TV.  Rather, America's middle class was the push westward from the Appalachians to building the strongest society in the history of the world, and it was the foundation for our economic miracle.

Everything Elizabeth Warren said in the video is true and her most critical warnings affect the weakening of America’s middle class; translation, the weakening of America’s community structure, family adhesion and standards for a just and equitable society.  For people to disagree with her warnings on the basis of her rank or credentials is unfounded.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 15:49 | 100079 MinnesotaNice
MinnesotaNice's picture

Your words are so true...

"It has often been said that the primary stumbling block for third world countries to develop into developing countries is their lack of a strong middle class... the middle class, that would be the backbone of the development of strong institutions for community development, education, improved standards for labor and above all an emphasis on laws protecting the growth of enterprise and the family, is missing." 

I agree... very good perspective...


Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:34 | 99985 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Imagine for a moment that she's not trying to engage the ones pulling the strings, but the rest of us.

She's saying to the middle class; you are doomed.

And she's saying this as one who is not part of the middle class.

The usual attitude is "let them eat cake". So this is different.

Now, one could make the point that she's doing this out of altruism; she really cares.

But it's just as likely she's doing if for selfish reasons; she likes things the way they are.

News flash: Everyone does.

Even the elites like things the way they are. The problem is that when the middle class implodes (as it is) and vanishes (as it shortly will) then the elites are back to an old game they know quite well but that never really panned out for them. It's called "feudalism". The middle class always was the merchant class -- the ones that produce real value -- and without the merchant class the elites don't have much to work with. They steal from each other, inter-marry, quarrel over lineage, and essentially spin their wheels.

Of course they want to save the middle class. Without their host, the parasite is dead.


Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:38 | 99990 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

The facts of life.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 15:11 | 100030 TumblingDice
TumblingDice's picture

ever heard of how the chicken that laid the golden eggs ended up? They may need the middle class now but with the upcoming resource scarcity, they might think of us as a nuisance in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an endgame to this.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 16:55 | 100178 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Nuisance... perhaps. Expensive to feed, house and educate.. oh definitely.

They will need someone to plow the fields. They will need cannon fodder for their petty wars. They will need lesser beings as they always needed them, if only to make themselves seem the mightier.

If we in the middle class allow ourselves to be taken back 1200 years, then we are too stupid to survive.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 17:04 | 100191 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Who ever said survival is a right?

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:12 | 99940 waterdog
waterdog's picture

About people going to jail- I believe that when Madoff turned himself in, his sentence was a sign to all involved in this economic collapse that they would be seeing jail time if convicted of their role. Too many big people lost it all during this past crime spree. This is not the theft, or the Enron theft. Little people lost it all during those holdups. Big people do not cry over the loss of a few billion dollars every 20 years. What makes big people mad is when they fall for it, hook-line-and sinker. They are not happy knowing they were conned by thieves, not by intellegent individuals. The big people will get even, once they know for sure the names of everyone involved in taking their money. We will know how sentencing will go over the next three years by the jail time given to the BofA players. One has to wonder how long the big people will allow these thieves to live in prison, before the day comes when the thieves meet their other sentences handed down by a different court.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 18:46 | 100305 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

It will all come down to the asteroid crashing into the pension funds.

Ma and Pa Kettle will be camped on the front steps of Capitol Hill, pitchfork and .12 guage in hand.

Holder will be hiding out at the Fed. Nobody gets in there.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:15 | 99954 chet
chet's picture

This woman should replace Obama's entire economic team.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 15:43 | 100071 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Amen to that!

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:20 | 99968 agrotera
agrotera's picture

Elizabeth Warren is a HERO...she keeps her position with her careful diplomatic, good, lawyerly questions.  I just wonder why she already hasn't been PUSHED OUT...The way that she keeps herself together to document all of this for WE THE PEOPLE is a gift to all of us--


I am confident she could step out, and take a "separate" and individual stance on the corruption she sees, but i believe, she keeps on keeping on for all of us--that is, she can best serve us by staying exactly where she is and asking the questions for all of us.  In effect, she is documenting the case for OTHERS to take to trial.

I just wish that ALL US citizens could hear her voice, her questions and then the people would insist on changing this system of corruption that we are currently viewing eye to eye.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:37 | 99988 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture


I used to think that people would wake up when they finally learned the truth and make the changes needed to save themselves. I felt it was simply a matter of not knowing.

But after many years offering the "truth" to people and watching the vast majority reject it or flat out deny it, I've come to the sad conclusion that most people find the truth so terrifying they simply won't look.

Only when people have nothing left to lose will people act like they have nothing left to lose and rebel against the criminal economic system. But not before.


Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:51 | 100005 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

The conclusion is, they (we) deserve what they've (we've) got coming to them (us). 'Head in the sand' is no more of a strategy than 'hope'.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 15:47 | 100076 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

I respectfully disagree, CD.  The truth we are afraid to come to terms with is that a significant portion, quite probably the majority, of Americans are similary as corrupt as their brethen who have perpetrated said fraud.

Fri, 10/16/2009 - 06:03 | 100656 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I understand your thinking. I have a theory about this and I have distilled it down to two sentences.

Locked doors keep the honest people honest. They do little to deter the dishonest people.

We are all dishonest. The question is how far do we take it. The vast majority of people will not take their own dishonesty very far and most will stop at the first sign of resistance, meaning the locked door

The truly criminal sees the initial resistance of the locked door as simply reducing the competition for what's behind the door.

Fri, 10/16/2009 - 09:00 | 100698 agrotera
agrotera's picture

You make a great point sgt_doom, but we don't need to let the "gotham city"like crime scenes keep rolling...

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 20:12 | 100405 agrotera
agrotera's picture

Hey CD, i am having some of your name (cognitive dissonance) about the idea that what you said is true!!! I have heartache, stomachaches and headaches with the fact that what you say is so, but i am just swimming up stream and still trying to sing the loud song about the crimes!!!

Here's an idea.  Consider the families that own large chunks of Bank of America stock--then consider the law suits that we know about and how they seem focused on Ken Lewis...

OK, now, yesterday or the day before, the news came out that some lawyer(i wrote down his name but don't have it in front of me) is suing the US Government on behalf of a Madoff victim  and when i heard him speak, he said that traditionally people think there is sovereign immunity, but not in the case of a CLEAR why aren't Bank of America shareholders suing the US govenement for the crime imposed on them?


OK, what do you think about someone, or all of us, putting together a suit against our government for allowing the Federal Reserve's interests to be put in front of our country's interests ( in a nutshell) and Paulson and Bernake were agents in the scene we just witnessed with the new corrupt bargain of MER/BAC, and of course TARP and the 23TRILLION in promises and guarantees out...isn't indeed this a crime against the best interests of the US people and as such, we should sue our government...ok, i hope you and others will chime in and maybe we can get a forum going to put together the idea.  I know some will say, "kookoo" but i don't care.

Fri, 10/16/2009 - 06:13 | 100659 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture


Let me think on this for a few days. After I have absorbed your idea, I will find you on this blog and respond.


Fri, 10/16/2009 - 08:56 | 100694 agrotera
agrotera's picture

Thank you so much CD! is a "kookie" idea, but, if it is a real possibility, why not? There have to be at least a few cases out there already, so if someone could find that if there are just too many, it turns into a class action.  Or, we could all try to find someone to file a case for us, and at least that would be the seed cases which could be used for a class action...A large enough case would force the public to jump on board...sure the MSM would find it hard to cover, but I wouldnt give up on them either since apparently some of them are still warm blooded.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:25 | 99973 Hammer59
Hammer59's picture

The wealthy are dreaming if they think that there will not be anger, deep resentment and unrestrained violence if the well-armed middleclass becomes financially destroyed. Ditto for any Politician, law enforcement officer, soldier, civil servant. You cant even purchase ammunition right now, due to the unseen recent demand. Yes, the Middle Class has been folded, spindled and mutilated for most of my five decades here---but taking away our livelihoods while destroying what little savings we have worked hard to aquire will result in the ultimate Fight Club. Never corner a frightened man.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 17:22 | 100210 Veteran
Veteran's picture

Fold spindle and mutilate.  Frank Zappa fan?

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:30 | 99975 Racer
Racer's picture

On Market Watch ..."Elizabeth Warren, chairwoman of the Congressional Oversight Panel, which is a TARP watchdog group, and a gaggle of Pennsylvania groups representing troubled homeowners, are pressing the Treasury Department to consider using some federal TARP funds from the modification program to give government bridge loans to people who have recently lost their jobs. The loans would not accrue interest until their income is restored."

What a complete and utter joke, this is another extension of reward those that get into debt (okay some may have done so in a proper manner and through no fault of their own lost their jobs).

The prudent who save and now get virtually nothing for all that scrimping and hard work and pay off their debts are being asked to pay more to more of society that doesn't.

This will create a problem for years to come, those that are in debt and have no job, for whatever reason will now see that it is better not to work at all  and let the taxpayer foot the bill, like the too big to fail banksters who can feel free to take more risks.

But this creates another problem, it creates a society where there are those that don't work, don't contribute to society, have children who more than likely won't want to work or bother getting much education either. These will then see stealing and other things as a normal way of life and a right. So in effect this will produce generations of very poor and very badly educated children.

The government are enslaving the poor and using the money of the hardworking middle class who were prudent. This then also enslaves them too.

The only ones to benefit are the ones at the top of the pecking order and woe betide any of those underlings who try to scale the ranks!

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:28 | 99976 Michael
Michael's picture

I Love Elizabeth!

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:39 | 99992 Racer
Racer's picture

"Prime Minister Gordon Brown will repay £12,415 after an independent audit of all MPs' expenses claims since 2004."

And has he lost his job? Gone to jail for defrauding the money?


Of course not, he is the top dog, and only the underlings suffer in that way

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:54 | 100009 Assetman
Assetman's picture

Are you kidding me???

Gordon Brown craps at least £12,415 per sitting, and pisses of unbridled excellence.

That's equivalent to a "Get Out of Jail Free" card, in my book.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:44 | 99996 Hammer59
Hammer59's picture

Of all the ideas that became the United States, there is a line in the Declaration of Independence that states:  "But when a long train of abuses and usurpitations pursuing invariably the same object envinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, IT IS THEIR DUTY to throw off such Government and provide new guards for their future security."  I had sincerely hoped that Obama and the Democrats would be quick to address the problems created by eight years of Bush/Cheney's traitorous malfeasence, but nothing has changed. Michael Moore's last film--9/11 drew crowds like no other  movie in my memory.  A placated public who accepts the carnage created by Washington DC and Wall Street, as well as Wal*Mart deserves to have their standards of living dramatically lowered.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:58 | 100018 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

We get exactly the leadership we deserve.

We deserve it because we do nothing. We swallow whole and unchallenged "abuses and usurpations" on a daily basis. And we look to the idiot box for salvation and guidance when it's only purpose is indoctrination and pacification.

Sorry, gotta go, CSI Beaver Falls is on.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:50 | 100003 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Horseshit. The middle class is the goose from which golden eggs are extracted. Most folk in the middle class don't know their elbow from their ass, from an economic/monetary viewpoint.

The rat bastards can go ahead and kill the goose; stupid greedy ashats that they seem to be.

Warren is no help; deaf ears except for here.

40muleteam borax

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:50 | 100004 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

No offense meant, but if this is happening on her watch what specifically is she overseeing?

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:53 | 100008 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

there are times when the sum total of data in a very small amount of time proves how illegitimate the American government is, and what a huge ponzi scheme the system is. When it is shown without a doubt that the wealthy took a big hit last year and all government efforts are designed to get their money back your your expense with additional wealth disparity. When it is shown how corrupt the system is. That in fact the entire system is rigged and designed to benefit the few, but marketed as something to help us all. I had my coffee today, seven folks there. I was the only person who even owned stocks or bonds. Yet the government is helping us. Let me be very clear. We are talking about the Fed, congress, White house. All are not legitimate representatives, and we do not have a representative democracy, but a corporate oligarchy that makes the rules and drives the discourse to ensure their continued wealth. I'll just let you read the articles, and you

JP Morgan profits lift Dow above 10,000
$3.6bn net income best figure since 2007
Investment banking arm provides boost
By Francesco Guerrera in New York
The Dow Jones Industrial Average climbed above 10,000 for the first time in more than a year yesterday after JPMorgan Chase kicked off the US banks’ third-quarter results season by reporting its biggest profit since 2007.
The $3.6bn in net income earned by JPMorgan in the three months to the end of September easily beat analysts’ expectations and has set the bar for rivals Goldman Sachs, Citigroup and Bank of America, which report later this week.
The unexpected results from JPMorgan, coupled with relatively resilient US retail sales, and better earnings than expected from Intel on Tuesday, sparked a broader market rally.
The Dow rose 144.80 points, or 1.47 per cent, to 10,005.86, finishing above the 10,000-point mark for the first time since October 3 2008, the day the troubled asset relief programme was approved by Congress and signed into law.
JPMorgan’s performance highlighted the contrast between Wall Street’s resurgence and the continuing weakness of US consumers. Analysts said they expected the divide to be evident as other financial groups report, with securities houses such as Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley expected to do better than banks with huge retail operations such as Citigroup and BofA.
“Wall Street is picking up quite smartly, while Main Street continues to suffer,” said Bart Narter at Celent, a research and consulting group. “Rising unemployment and declining house prices will cause continuing pain on Main Street and the banks that serve it.”
JPMorgan’s investment banking arm, which ousted its cohead Bill Winters last month, accounted for more than half of group profits, driven by strong revenues in its fixed-income arm and other trading divisions.
The securities unit also benefited from a $400m gain on its leveraged loans and mortgage-backed assets – the first time a US bank has disclosed a significant “write-up” on the value of securities that have caused huge losses to the sector.
JPMorgan’s net income of $3.6bn compared with $527m last year. It was the bank’s best profit since the second quarter of 2007. Earnings per share were $0.82, up from $0.09.
Yet its US consumer businesses continued to bleed, with its credit card unit losing $700m in the quarter and its retail bank, which was augmented by the purchase of the regional lender Washington Mutual last year, barely breaking even.
Jamie Dimon, chief executive, said he had seen “initial signs of consumer credit stability” but warned it was too early to call the end of the downturn.

Geithner aides had made millions of dollars
‘Counsellors’ worked on Wall St
Advisers escaped Senate hearings
By Tom Braithwaite in Washington
Obama administration officials now working on fixing and regulating the financial system were beneficiaries of several million dollars in pay from Wall Street and private equity companies, it has been revealed.
Financial disclosure forms show that before joining the government, Gene Sperling, a senior Treasury adviser, was paid $887,727 by Goldman Sachs and $158,000 for speeches to companies that included Stanford Group, the company run by Sir Allen Stanford, who has since been charged with fraud.
Mr Sperling’s compensation from Goldman was for work on a philanthropic project. His overall pay, including for his main job at the Council on Foreign Relations, totalled $2.2m in the 13 months to January.
The forms, first obtained by Bloomberg, showed that Matthew Kabaker, another adviser in the Treasury, earned $5.8m at Blackstone, the private equity firm, in the two years before joining the administration to work on plans to support banks and spur lending. Much of the package was in stock.
Lewis Alexander, another adviser, was chief economist to Citigroup before joining the administration; he was paid $2.4m in the past two years.
Even though some of the officials whose previous salaries were disclosed are senior, many were appointed as “counsellors”, so escaped Senate confirmation hearings that could have highlighted their past remuneration and employment at a time of heightened animosity towards the financial industry.
This month the release of the telephone call logs of Tim Geithner, Treasury secretary, showed that he had numerous conversations with a number of Wall Street executives, sparking allegations that the administration was too close to the industry.
Officials argued, then and yesterday, that it was important to have skilled people working for the government as it crafted complicated financial rescues and for Mr Geithner to communicate with financial sector executives. Mr Geithner, former president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, has never worked on Wall Street.
Mr Obama, however, has hit out at the culture that he said prevailed before last year’s financial crisis – at a time when many of the Treasury officials were working on Wall Street and related businesses.
“We will not go back to the days of reckless behaviour and unchecked excess that was at the heart of this crisis, where too many were motivated only by the appetite for quick kills and bloated bonuses,” he said at a speech in New York last month.
Previous releases of disclosure forms revealed the $5.2m paid to Lawrence Summers, chief economic adviser to the White House, by DE Shaw, the hedge fund, in the two years before he joined the administration.
The disclosures come during a complicated time for the relationship between the Obama administration and business, with officials accused of being too close to companies on the one hand and encountering increased criticism from business lobby groups on the other.
The US Chamber of Commerce yesterday launched its “campaign for free enterprise”, arguing the private sector was under threat from various over-reaching government plans, including for a Consumer Financial Protection Agency and a cap-and-trade scheme to reduce carbon emissions.

Dollar falls to 14-month low after Fed signals no rise in rates soon
Minutes show support for new asset purchases
By Krishna Guha in Washington
The dollar fell yesterday after minutes from the Federal Reserve’s last policy meeting showed that some committee members favoured increased purchases of assets such as mortgage-backed securities to speed recovery.
While the committee simply agreed to keep open the option of either expanding or reducing the purchases if the economic outlook changed, only one policymaker made the case for scaling back buying – leaving an overall doveish skew.
This tone was echoed in the discussion of inflation. Most Fed officials “anticipated that slack in both labour and product markets would be substantial over the next few years, leading to subdued and potentially declining wage and price inflation.”
They agreed that inflation expectations needed to be “carefully monitored” but indicated that they would seek to manage these expectations by building confidence in their exit strategy, rather than by raising rates preemptively.
With inflation fears muted and forecasts of protracted high unemployment, the minutes suggest that the Fed is still a long way from raising interest rates. This undermined the dollar, which fell to a 14-month low on a trade-weighted basis.
The minutes confirm that the US central bank is examining “reverse repurchase agreements on a large scale, potentially with counterparties other than the primary dealers” as a possible way to mop up excess liquidity when the time comes to tighten policy. The other counterparties envisaged prominently include money market mutual funds.
The minutes also show that the Fed viewed the decline in Treasury yields as “puzzling” given the improved economic outlook. Fed staff economists raised their forecast for the second half and projected that growth would strengthen further in 2010 and in 2011. They “forecast core inflation to slow somewhat further over the next two years from the pace of the first half of 2009.” They thought unemployment would be about 9.25 per cent at the end of 2010 and about 8 per cent at the end of 2011.
The minutes show that many Fed policymakers also raised their growth forecasts. But many still expected the recovery to be “quite restrained” – in part, because credit “remained difficult to obtain and costly”.
They also “expressed considerable uncertainty about the likely strength of the upturn” once government supports were withdrawn.

So lets put this all together for those who can't actually see the PONZI scheme. The big banks are making huge profits again and folks are getting their bonuses. But they are cutting back giving out credit, so the money is being made by trading. Even though this is happening, it is too early to tighten rates so the big banks would actually have to pay for the money from the discount window to buy assets. This of course allows for huge leverage of asset price purchases for nothing. Thus really only benefiting people who own lots of stocks. In fact even though they are making profits the fed is going to keep buying their toxic assets with your tax money. Meanwhile your dollar in your savings account has dropped to a 14 month low and you aren't getting any interest to make up for it.

Now we add to that a President who said certain things during his election that turned out to be complete lies. Instead he appoints the head of the NY fed, who lies and said he has never worked on wall street (yet working for the NY fed is the same as working for wall street). Well what would you expect he is a tax cheat. To avoid appear as the out right liars they are and to avoid senate confirmation issues he appoints counselors who have made their money on wall street. "Back door appointments".

Lastly with their unlimited financial power and inherent advantage due to lobby money the American chamber of commerce starts a propaganda campaign to ensure that any and all reform efforts that would actually help the majority of people don't get enacted. This way our liar of a president can claim he got the bills done and had to make concessions to the right, when his treasury has been bought and paid for all the time. See the great majority of what you see is theater for your consumption designed to prevent you from putting two and two together. All along the White house was going to give industry what they wanted (because they have been bought and paid for). Industry fights a campaign of extreme positions asking for much more than they want. Then the president can claim victory for the little guy when he is getting nothing.

You see folks, the whole system is designed against you. This isn't democracy. It is a fictional theater designed to make you ever poorer while the wealthy stay in power and get richer at your expense.

For those people who call the folks bringing their fire arms to meet their elected representatives "crazy", well they aren't they are the rational ones who see what is going on and are tired of it. Does anyone really have the balls to say that our government is a legitimate representative democracy. It isn't.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 16:09 | 100107 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

An excellent post, to which nothing can be really added, but I can't help but add several details: 

In this ongoing charade of the "public option" it is interesting to note that the owner of the majority of pharmaceutical companies would be the combo of JPMorgan Chase and the Rockefeller family.  No surprise there.

Alas, when one examines the following equation:

50,000 foundations + 40,000 D.C. lobbyists + 5 media-controlling corporations = engineered consent

(thanks to the poster at whom I stole this from....)

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 14:55 | 100012 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Ah, yes, again the well intentioned, serious, big sis Elizabeth Warren, who, without realizing it, simply serves to paliate the outrage of "progressives" by making it seem as though someone in government really understands, empathizes and can and actually will do something about the abuses that so press upon the average American. Distilled, her message and the purpose it serves comes down to this: We get it and, darn it, we're not going to let 'em get away with it. Which, of course, is about as close to burlesque as Ms. Warren is ever likely to get.

It ought to be obvious to even the most hopeful at this juncture, what with the fate of "change you can believe in" and "si, se puede", that if BS were green, Elizabeth Warren would be an 18 hole golf course. Nothing will change with the advent of Ms. Warren, absolutely nothing. What's sad is that she'll keep some folks voting that really ought to know better by this time.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 22:54 | 100522 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

oh please, I don't know who is doing who, or who is winking at whom and even if she is faking it, we are being screwed and she is expressing that, that information is important...its not like any progressives are feeling better about their govt cause Warren is in this position, she provides not cover or redemption to this regime...really, do you think the average American is thinking, "I really think this govt is beyond redemption and I am ready to make revolution, oh but wait, we have the smart sincere TARP wathch-dog lady and she claims to be making such progress in rooting out corruption, I guess I'll suspend my revolutionary actions for now"...I doesn't make sense...not that I don't think the partisan thing is used to keep us fighting/blaiming the other party rather than look at the bi-partisan parasites above..but Warren provides no real cover and does not serve the role of Olbermann v. OReilly.

besides, I have serious red-in-the face arguments with my arch rivals and industry meetings at the end of which I have made a joke, winked and smiled at the guy I wanted to crush, no need to have heart attack when you can have some fun along with the fighting...

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 15:19 | 100041 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Don't be fooled by Elizabeth. I watched her supposedly "tough" questioning session of Bernanke and caught her sly wink and a smile to Ben at its conclusion. She is an appeaser that will do nothing to defend the middle class. The only weapon the middle class have is a tax revolt, the ballot box justs offers 2 different crime families.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 17:08 | 100193 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

More powerful than a tax revolt is a debt payment revolt.  If everyone stopped payment and told the debt servicers to get lost the system would collapse in fairly short order.

The fed can carry the government much longer than it can the whole of society.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 15:23 | 100046 Obnoxio
Obnoxio's picture

The rage is real and has just begun. The banksters have raped and looted the USA and Congress helped them do it. Every individual bankster's picture and deeds will be posted on the web and be remembered for all to see. Their treason to the country will be remembered forever.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 15:45 | 100074 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Middle class at risk you say? Fear not! There is a middle class task force that our fearless leaders have set up. Problem solved!

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 15:52 | 100083 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

I love the theme of "hollowing out the middle class". That has such a nice "media-rich" ring to it. She almost makes our dilemma sound like someone or something has decided to appropriate the property and spirit of the middle class, and soften the spine of our America. Must be another Bush problem we have inherited. She should run for office since she has the beginnings of another change-resonating platform.

But perhaps she has overlooked some facts about the middle class. Somewhere along the line the middle class stopped taking education seriously, stopped saving money, stopped worrying about irresponsible levels of debt, and stopped enlisting. The new middle class focus is all about politics...the civil redistribution of wealth and replacement of private capital with public debt; new age media...the preocuppation with digital noise and celebrity as a high speed replacement for cultural depth; and lots of food lest we forget. In truth, our middle class is bigger and wealthier than any class in history. The problem is we are Filline's "Los vitallones" fatted calves.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 15:58 | 100096 Gimp
Gimp's picture

Great interview. Warren speaks the truth about the decline of the middle class. The greedy elitists who want to take care of us proletarians will stop at nothing to shake the last cent out of our pockets. Somebody help me out of the rabbit hole before the Queen of hearts chops of my head!

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 16:32 | 100147 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

The drill from Washington is getting obvious:

Talk, talk, talk, do nothing.

Talk, talk, talk, do nothing.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 19:08 | 100327 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Interesting comment thread. But it feels strange to be on a finance and investment news and opinion site and read comments that could well have been written by Gramsci or Alinsky if they had just lived long enough. Yeah, trotting out the old leftist canards will certainly set us on the path out of the wilderness. We even get the moronic "top 0.5%" nonsense. "Top 0.5%" of what? If you mean of those who report their annual income on the 1040 form, you are then including a large number of those extraordinarily eeeeeeeeeeeevil small businesses - the actual engines of job growth.

Earth to commenters: The U.S. began the abandonment of its system of free market capitalism at the end of the Calvin Coolidge administration. We now firmly reside in a system known as Corporatism, and have for decades, in which special interest groups have captured the state. The only "change" (hah!) is when the out party becomes the in party and brings its own constituencies. Therefore, remember, if you are going to define GS, NAR and AHIP as special interests, then you must definitely also include ACORN, Greenpeace, and the UAW, to name only three of the hundreds of left-leaning pressure groups.

Wake up and smell the coffee! The path to salvation is to stop pointing fingers at "Vast Right Wing Conspiracies" or the "Long March" to socialism. Maybe then the adults in the country (Elizabeth Warren appears to qualify; Michael Moore does not) can gather together for an open and honest exchange to identify solutions. As a individual retiree investor interested only in trying to stay solvent, it is disappointing to see the lack of broad historical and non-technical knowledge displayed by what seem to be finance and investment professionals. Pardon me for being so blunt but what I read here is depressing.

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 23:28 | 100546 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

i get it, anyone the agrees with you is the adult. I too agree this is a bi-partisan trashing of our country and economy and that always thinking everything will be put aright when my party gets in power is great way to avoid real cange... and I think its pretty silly to put Acorn (what part of the state have they captured?) in the same category as GS, AHIP, Pharma or say Blackwater, Halliburton.

The trick bag we are in is perfectly expressed in our health care reform debate....the cost efficient reform that is proven in other countries to provide good results for least amount of money, such as single-payer like those radical, commie, anti-free market Canadians or a totally nationalized health care systems, ala those radical reds, free-market haters in the UK but that is too anti-liberty for US because if we do like Canada or UK or Germany or France, we will not have the freedoms of those countries but rather will be the USSR, so the alternative, a completely private system of health insurancea and health care continues per libertarian and small govt ideals...but the cartel/monopoly that keeps taking more and more profits is killing folks, so we ask for what kind of reform do we get....a break up of the trusts to get a free and fair market again via competition, no...that would be too libertarian and too hurtful for to the corporate cartels, and we can't go the other way and do like other governments and spend half as much and get everyone because that would also be hurtful to the we get reform that is very costly, helps some people at great cost, and helps, does not hurt corporate cartels.

Why are paying a big part of unemployed people's COBRA bill? only because this "reform" or social safety net helps corporations, as health insurance and health care providers were losing huge amounts of customers the second they were unemployed because their whole unemployment insurance payment did not even cover COBRA bill.

Another example, Medicare Part D, huge costs for incomplete assistance...because it was profitable to corporations

Want to know what law will pass, just ask, which laws benefit big corporations....

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 19:37 | 100366 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Guys, here's the thing. For all the comments about Elizabeth Warren, look, she's doing what she can do from the position they have put her in (no supena power, no real authority). In a very strange coincidence, I happened to run into her at the iarport (true story). I guarantee you she gets it. She knows the truth. She's knows they will do anything to stop her, and they have all the power. So there's kind of a resignation to do what she can do in the context she's in. I mean, isn't that the best we can each do anyway? Just sayin'

Thu, 10/15/2009 - 22:57 | 100524 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

agree...the world would be a much better place if everyone did their job like Warren is, best she can with what she is given and with a sincere, empathetic heart but rational, and stratgic mind...why run a good bureaucrat down when we have the SEC, Fed all many others doing sell-out horrors everyday

Fri, 10/16/2009 - 00:44 | 100586 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

The United States or the Union was never anything but corrupt. It was established by corrupt people and it's resources robbed openly by corrupt people. How could anyone in their right mind think otherwise. The history of this country (and the others) is vile and bloody. Only a fool sees beauty and essence because their self righteous mind need to believe in the BS called a Constitution and Bill of Rights in order to continue participating in a self seeking psychopathic delusional system. In this country (world) you have one choice participate or get smashed. No one wants to get smashed but there are quadrillions underfoot from the beginning of time til now and onward. There is no fair; there is no care; there is no empathy; there is no country; there is no justice; there are no ethics. The realistic know there is only wealth or poverty. You are either one or the other. There is no middle and there never was. That was nothing but an illusion.

Invest and stop trying to feel good about yourselves by debating the very deplorable behavior which made this country Great and prosperous. If you really didn't like it you would stop participating in this corrupt and vile money laundering system called the stock market.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 07:23 | 996402 george22
george22's picture

"And every time we hollow [the middle class] out we take the risk that something of what we know as America begins to die."

Why is that every "mainstream" or "establishment" thinker always qualifies their argument that America is dying with works like "take the risk" and "begins to die". Other examples (not in this article include) "may result in a prolonged decline of the dollar", "affects the economic stability of future generations", etc.

Let's face it: America has been in decline since the year 2001, the early part of which we were perhaps at the apex of influence, economic prosperity, personal freedoms, and opportunity for growth. Unfortunately, 9/11and the administration at that quickly ended this period of relative prosperity.

I wouldn't be surprised to be back in Singapore by next year's end.
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