Elizabeth Warren "We Have A Real Problem Coming"
Elizabeth Warren, head of the Congressional Oversight Panel, which yesterday released quite a sobering report on the true state of the banking industry, explains what is really going on with the increasingly irrelevant balance sheets of the bailout banks (all of them). Once again underscores what a farce the stress test was, the complicity of the accountants in making the transparency initiative a sham, and why the banks are still as underwater as they ever were. Compliments of Shanky's Tech Blog.
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on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:19
#34629
It sounds like she says the F word at 3:11
Freudian slip?
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:58
#34682
I thought MSNBC was the devil's (GE's) spawn?
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:31
#34865
no program that allows (invites????) pat buchanan on the air would qualify as the devil's spawn! i don't know if it's better or worse... but it just aint the same.
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 04:05
#35041
To the Zero Hedge faithful-
Many rumors of bank holidays starting 8/24 - see these two articles:
http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/08.09/closures.html
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article12253.html
I wanted to share this information.
All the best
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 06:53
#35067
Precisely because that rumor is so known, it must be false. If there was any basis for it the markets would have already freezed.
Banks are injured, but there is absolutely no basis for stating that a bank holiday is planned. In fact, most bank holidays in history are not planned, they are the result of unexpected crisis.
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 08:34
#35126
Unexpected? You mean like Argentina's bond default crisis? Or Zimbabwe's unexpected money printing crisis.
Yeah ...
on Sat, 08/22/2009 - 00:23
#44604
This rumor is all over youtube and other sites with
zero proff only connections, friend of a friend,
un-manemd source & ect. lends me to think it won't
happen. But I guess we will see if people start
hitting the ATM this weekend.
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 04:30
#35049
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYUmCj4yud4&feature=related awsome guy, awsome speaker!! MUST WATCH....WATCH THE FULL VIDEO TO MAKE SENSE..
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:21
#34699
It sounded to me like she said "folks"
on Mon, 08/17/2009 - 06:42
#38567
Sounded to me like she said FASB as a single word instead of F.A.S.B.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:42
#34729
I thought so too, I thought she said "once the fucks changed the accounting rules", but it was folks...........fucks is more like it.
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 08:35
#35128
I thought she said c*nts?
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:38
#34790
She says "folks".
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 04:30
#35050
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYUmCj4yud4&feature=related awsome guy, awsome speaker!! MUST WATCH....WATCH THE FULL VIDEO TO MAKE SENSE..
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:59
#34820
The Great Debate over "folks" or "fuck"... too funny...
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 03:44
#35033
How did they allow her on and say what she said? Saw her on a comedy show and there she was also frank and open. What a relief!
Is there still some hope?
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 03:44
#35034
How did they allow her on and say what she said? Saw her on a comedy show and there she was also frank and open. What a relief!
Is there still some hope?
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 03:44
#35035
How did they allow her on and say what she said? Saw her on a comedy show and there she was also frank and open. What a relief!
Is there still some hope?
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 09:56
#35228
She said "folks"
"Once the folks changed the accounting rules"
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:50
#34633
Elizabeth Warren is a breath of fresh air... she resonates with her audience... you feel deep inside that she is right... and the other stuff that is blowing around is a bunch of hot air... Taleb is sounding the same type of alarms. The recovery is an illusion that is being created by the government and the MSM... the stock market currently does not reflect the reality of the underlying economy... but it will at some point in the near future.
An analogy: a person has terminal cancer and they may look/act just fine with little appearance of illness during the first stages... we treat the symptoms as the cancer progresses so the patient feels as good as he/she can... but they still end up dying from the cancer. If we were truly receiving a curative treatment for what is ailing this country... then it would have discomfort associated with the treatment much as chemotherapy does... but rather we are receiving narcotics in the form of a stimulus and bailout... and we are somewhat pain free... but we will not be cured.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:25
#34774
This is administration of Palliative Care.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palliative_care
It will become Hospice way too soon if these Fuck Ups don't derail this train to Hell.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:07
#34829
So the banks are misstating asset values on their books, which in turn allows them to report false profits which in turn allows them to pay themselves outrageous bonuses.We just
good articles; my newest bookmarked finance site ..http://www..
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 00:45
#35012
Hey Marla, this "Pet Error" is the same guy that keeps poping up trying to advertise his silly site. Doesn't he realize we're all getting pretty tired of his crap, and his site is becoming despised, and associated more and more with spam? Spammers suck.
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 01:57
#35028
for sure the most intelligent post I've read in awhile. Thanks.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 22:51
#34981
It's worth noting that very little progress has been made on winding down a TBTF institution.
You'd think getting a plan together to do that and passing it (even as part of another bill) would have been a priority.
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 04:04
#35040
I just watched Taleb on CNBC and he said the same thing that me and my friends have discussed - the root cause has not been addressed, and they should have allowed these assets to go down a ton. POeople would have adjusted, and the taxpayer wouldn't be footing the bill for the rescue of GOldman Sachs, Geithner's buddies. This is such straigh p bs. Geithner and GS stooges are going to have to emigrate when this explodes...
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 07:52
#35083
She only exists to make people like you think that someone cares while nothing of substance gets done about our overwhelming problems.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:24
#34634
This woman needs to do at least 2 things every day:
Have someone else start her car and keep testing the brakes.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:28
#34639
Don't forget her food, gas lines and electrical connections at home.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:32
#34645
I vote each day that Bernanke has to start her car and Geithner has to test her brakes...
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:57
#34679
My thoughts exactly.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:12
#34694
Dixie Normous, thank you for the best laugh of the day.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:18
#34696
Sad but true...
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 07:53
#35084
She is in absolutely no danger. It's all a stage performance.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:26
#34635
Besides her current gig in the oversight committee - she wrote a great book a few years ago titled 'The Two Income Trap' - fascinating read. She's a smart gal - but unfortunately she accepted a job that's set up to be a failure. However, with the limited power she actually has - she's been quite effective in getting the word out. Maybe that's the best we can hope for.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 22:06
#34952
Isn't the best we can expect from any politician is that they tell the truth?
Kudos to her and all other public servants that understand and can face reality.
All who read here, besiege your public contacts (we all have them, in any industry) to read this site, and to post their grievances here, that we can further pull back the curtain. The electorate listens when you provide them with specifics.
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 06:31
#35061
She's on the public record for sure - we have the "I told you so," which is very important on the other side of the impeding implosion because the Ron Paul's of the world will not be marginalized any longer and we "negative" contrarians will not be either. Maybe we'll actually have wisdom restored to its pinnacle? Most of us here and and at other public forums worldwide, second her assertions. We are on the record too. This will end very badly and very soon. Remember this started with the "$100 Billion Sub-Prime" crisis that would end, and what followed within months of ZB's confident proclamation, were the first phases of the liquidity crisis (2007) and then everything that followed.
Now we have RMBS X2 (this will be the worst year of foreclosures yet) plus the CRE crisis (which we have been talking about since last year) is ready to blow. We know what's coming. Do not be surprised by the speed of it.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:27
#34636
Every seven seconds a loan to the household sector is defaulted. Warren is in essence saying just wait for the real wave of destructive defaults of the commercial sector to catch up with the household sector. The Fed & Treasury as been expending their efforts in all the wrong places. The phoney phaze of the GFC cannot but come to its conclusion.
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 01:44
#35026
green shit.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aGAr2pZ9UC1o
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:27
#34637
haven't you thought all along that all these dramas were exercises in managing expections and avoiding riots and bank runs? ...
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:28
#34638
haven't you thought all along that all these dramas were exercises in managing expectations and avoiding riots and bank runs? ...
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:19
#34698
I've been thinking the same thing....controlled chaos.... "We can't handle the truth"
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:30
#34642
Warren is a liberal so many should craft their views accordingly.
How she got nominated is beyond me. This was a serious error. She is despised within both the Beltway and The Street.
In some technical sense her comments often go beyond her brief, as TARP watchdog. This is usually the starting point you will hear when polite opponents and enemies criticize her.
Just some things to keep in mind.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:39
#34655
I respect your thoughts but I think that a watchdog by definition should be generally 'despised' by those she is dogging... at least a boundary is formed that can't be penetrated by quid pro quo issues... thank god that there are a few dogs still out there... they are dropping like flies.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 22:21
#34963
It isn't the problem that she's despised. The problem is that she brings so many biases to the table. You could find the most compelling case of a fraudulent no-doc mortgage borrower who knew exactly what he was doing, for purposes of flipping condos in a known bubble market. Warren would still place 100% of the blame on the lender. Like many in academia, she's never encountered a problem that can't be blamed on the big, bad corporation.
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 05:42
#35054
Isn't it the lenders fault for giving a fraudulent no-doc mortgage to someone?
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 10:03
#35244
100%?
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 10:15
#35262
Yeah. All 100% of the blame goes to the lender here. If you're counting on a bubble (that your own actions are serving to inflate) to save a borrower in a bubble. You deserve to lose every single penny of your ridiculously risky investment.
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 08:05
#35095
actually Warren mentions individual failure frequently, but she generally focuses on systems that failed us. Is that the correct emphasis? I agree with her on that focus.
I think the individual idoicy that occured during housing bubble is already well-understood by average folks and well-documented in media, but average folks have only the vaguest sense of the overall corruption and failure of our government and private businesses, "free" market systems (mostly due to their corruption of our government by money) This is what she speaks to.
Going up-river to see where the bodies are coming from seems like a wise course of action. Let CNBC and Oreilly rag on the awful subprime people or fraudulent individual investors, Warren will talk about the rest of the problem. 30 years ago, shoot, 10 years ago, crazy indvidual speculators would have never been able to risk other peoples money they did in 2005 but since it made huge money for much bigger entities than the indvidual speculator, this behavior was encourage. In fact, getting individuals excited enough to act as the "advanced infantry" straw man for the MBS bundler, fraud exporters of Wall Street was needed for their success. All those risky individual investors and over-stretched sub-prime house buyers have crashed and burned and are generally way worse, well-pusished for their greed/stupidity, wish I could say same about banks, wall street.
We can fix this problem on person at a time, or we can put systems in place that serve us, expose and avoid fraud, let our markets act as the free and fair markets they should, take away undeu influence and advantage of big money muscle so everyone can compete, protect themselves financially.
I'm with Warren, fix the system and the indviduals will follow. People want/need better systems and big money to suffer for bad acts, as indviduals do/have; big money wants/needs systems to stay corrupt and indviduals to suffer, so big money does not. Funny thing is, just like subprime, at first this attitude brings them short-term big profits, but eventually they kill the goose that laid the golden egg, and end up with egg on thier face. Just not sustainable economy.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:40
#34657
Any attempt to make the truth partisan, is a success at making yourself irrelevant.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:07
#34688
Partisanship is just one more way of saying that Gerber Banana is their preferred flavor. Left or right are just two sides of the same coin. Fighting for the scraps.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:48
#34732
Dogfood....Its the verdict every Political entrepreneur dreads most: “The dogs aren?t eating the dog food” – which means that the Political (VCs) don?t like your pitch, and your campaign won?t get funded.....
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:37
#34878
Melamine won't help the flavor of that Alpo, eh.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:47
#34735
"She is despised within both the Beltway and The Street."
roflmao, and you really think that says something BAD about her ? au contraire, it's a 24 carat recommendation !!!
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:59
#34746
If you "craft" your views by rejecting opinions out of hand based on the party affiliation of the person who speaks them...
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:39
#34792
"Warren is a liberal so many should craft their views accordingly."
Nice ad hominem, you're like pavlov's dog, buddy.
I'll craft my views how I see fit without your goofy propaganda, thanks.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:17
#34846
The liberal created the problem and what did she do to stop it? Nothing.
She is all mouth. The sad part is she understand the problem.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:36
#34876
Actually, Reagan started the problem.
But more recently, the bailouts and huge deficit started with the previous administration. But who cares? As others have mentioned this is not a democrat/republican or liberal/conservative issue. That is all like so much celeb scandal and new shiny toys; to keep the sheeple arguing about nothing so that corporations can steal everyone's money and kick back those who help them some spare change.
“I don't vote. Two reasons. First of all it's meaningless; this country was bought and sold a long time ago. The shit they shovel around every 4 years *pfff* doesn't mean a fucking thing. Secondly, I believe if you vote, you have no right to complain. People like to twist that around – they say, 'If you don't vote, you have no right to complain', but where's the logic in that? If you vote and you elect dishonest, incompetent people into office who screw everything up, you are responsible for what they have done. You caused the problem; you voted them in; you have no right to complain. I, on the other hand, who did not vote, who in fact did not even leave the house on election day, am in no way responsible for what these people have done and have every right to complain about the mess you created that I had nothing to do with.” -G.C.
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 07:58
#35087
I agree, and I haven't voted in years for the same reason. It came to me while standing in line to vote (like a Soviet!) and really listening to the conversations going on all around me, I heard one woman say how she was voting for a candidate "because he was so good looking."
And that, folks, is the level of political discourse in the USA.
It's all American Idol and it is all trash, and it is thus not worth my time to participate in such a farce. And the sooner we realize we have no democracy, the better off we will all be.
The only vote you have is the one you do with your feet--refuse to be a part of the system as much as possible and don't ask for, or accept, anything from it.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 21:49
#34945
The liberals created the problem? Where were you fuckturd when Bush ran the country to the ground? Not hollering in town meetings, I presume. Just munching your freedom fries.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 22:30
#34966
I think that in the big picture, relatively little blame for this one lies with the politicians. Their share is dwarfed by that shouldered by the borrowers, the mortgage originators, the investment banks, and the credit ratings agencies. That being said, yes, the Dems probably deserve a bit more blame that the Republicans. The genesis of the problem is the CRA, which was modified in the Clinton administration to REQUIRE the banks to engage in mortgage lending to those who were worse credit risks. This changed the face of mortgage lending, and really jumpstarted many of the problems that have come to a head in recent years. Bush was not perfect on this front -- he absolutely encouraged an "ownership society" that was misguided. But unless you impose Greenspan's actions during the Bush term on the administration, he was relatively harmless in this saga.
I'm an independent, so I have no dog in this fight. But "ran the country into the ground" is a rather large claim to make without providing some backup. I know it's the conventional wisdom, but that doesn't make it true, much less true about every individual issue.
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 03:32
#35032
Excellent points, along with those responsible for the repeal of the Glass-Steagall act below which allowed banks to act like hedge funds and over-leverage with derivatives.
These derivatives/swaps are the poison in our financial system, or as Warren Buffett called them, weapons of mass destruction (despite turning around and using them). Companies are using them to avoid taxes, manage earnings, avoid leverage restrictions, and make huge directional bets that are compromising the entire system.
Those responsible:
Respective versions of the legislation were introduced in the U.S. Senate by Phil Gramm (Republican of Texas) and in the U.S. House of Representatives by Jim Leach (R-Iowa). The third lawmaker associated with the bill was Rep. Thomas J. Bliley, Jr. (R-Virginia), Chairman of the House Commerce Committee from 1995 to 2001.
The House passed its version of the Financial Services Act of 1999 on July 1st by a bipartisan vote of 343-86 (|Republicans 205–16; Democrats 138–69; Independent/Socialist 0–1),[3] [4] [5] two months after the Senate had already passed its version of the bill on May 6th by a much-narrower 54–44 vote along basically-partisan lines (53 Republicans and one Democrat in favor; 44 Democrats opposed).[6] [7] [8] [9]
When the two chambers could not agree on a joint version of the bill, the House voted on July 30th by a vote of 241-132 (R 58-131; D 182-1; Ind. 1–0) to instruct its negotiators to work for a law which ensured that consumers enjoyed medical and financial privacy as well as "robust competition and equal and non-discriminatory access to financial services and economic opportunities in their communities" (i.e., protection against exclusionary redlining).[10]
Treasury Secretary Lawrence H. Summers (Democrat) rushed back from a trip to China to huddle with lobbyists representing Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch and other financial giants. The meeting was closed to the media and public, but one participant told the New York Times that Summers lectured the lobbyists on how to spin this bill so it appears to be in the public interest. "He said it would be very unfortunate if any financial institution were to suggest that they do not see the broad public purpose of this legislation," the lobbyist reported.
Paul Volcker vehemently opposed this! He's a hero along with all the individuals both democrat and republican that opposed this bill pushed by the lobbyists. The rest were in the pockets of the banks.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 23:30
#34993
"The liberal created the problem" meep meep meep.
Elizabeth Warren - The Coming Collapse of the Middle Class
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 08:37
#35133
You mean she's not in bed (metaphorically speaking) with those she ostensibly regulates? Perish the thought!
Bring back uncle Hank and his $700m conflict of interest any day, I say!
GS for Treasury.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:34
#34646
She understand the problem but don't want to make the hard choices.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:34
#34647
Elizabeth Warren should replace Geithner as Treasury Secretary.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:33
#34870
I had the same thought.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 22:16
#34960
Amen. The "truth" has no political affiliation. I would vote for her in a second.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 22:31
#34968
Yes, I'll look for her name on the ballot under Treasury Secretary next time.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:36
#34652
Guess she will not be on CNBC anytime soon!
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:41
#34659
I would expect that they have a whole list of 'do not invites' to come on CNBC... except when the market is plunging and they need to present a bearish view for the day...
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:47
#34667
She was on yesterday.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1211425479&play=1
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:52
#34675
Hi Mr. Beale... and you proved my point exactly... the market was way down yesterday...
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:02
#34683
But she was on before the market opened and as I recall, the S&P was down just a smidge at that point from fair value.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:46
#34733
Point taken... I've forgotten what the futures did in the overnight into the morning... but she was likely scheduled ahead of time :-)
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:05
#34687
Wait, I thought you left us???
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:49
#34737
Cut it out :-) I like Mr. Beale... he is my only "I like Jon Stewart" ally on this site.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:35
#34784
Wait, I love Jon Stewart and his brother who runs the NYSE...
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:51
#34804
I am thinking that the holidays at the Leibowitz house must have some interesting conversation... the NYSE isn't Larry's first gig... he has some career history that is similar to Cramers... love to be a fly on the wall.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:58
#34817
The Club requires that you have extensive goneff experience to carry the water can to GS...
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:05
#34823
You stumped me... usually I have to look up some of the obscure financial concepts that TD puts on his website... but it is the first time I have had to look up a non-financial term... "goneff"... but it is quite fitting... a "master thief who robs banks and steals everything in the world of Pokeman"... love to learn something everyday... thanks...
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:18
#34847
My pleasure...;-)
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:38
#34654
One of the few voices of clarity.
She also calls bullsh*t on the "End of the World" hyperbole, but does it in a very cautious (political) way.
Good show Ms. Warren.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:44
#34664
Elizabeth Warren actually had the guts to document that the Paulson Treasury paid more than fair market value for its stakes in banks as part of the TARP program.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:47
#34665
Five years from now her photo will be next to the entry for "Cassandra" in the dictionary.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:57
#34744
I hope you mean that "Cassandra" reflects positively upon her great insight into things that others can't see. Because in Greek mythology Cassandra was actually given the gift of prophetic insight by Apollo... but when she did not return Apollo's love he placed a curse on her that no one would ever believe her predictions. She is generally thought of as someone whose great insight was not revealed until after the fact. So yes, I agree that five years from now her photo will be next to the entry for "Cassandra" in the dictionary.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:07
#34828
So the banks are misstating asset values on their books, which in turn allows them to report false profits which in turn allows them to pay themselves outrageous bonuses.We just
good articles; my newest bookmarked finance site ..http://www..
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 08:39
#35136
Better than Timmie, filed under "Marcellus Wallace"!
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:47
#34666
Yet Paulsons "new postions" (even though we don't know what he has on the other side and they were a/o june 30) will, i fear/know cause a pile on effect.
Not withstanding Tyler's editorial comments (which i agree 100% with) on this matter, i don't believe anyone currently cares (present company on this blog excepted).
Collectively, it appears that we are living the myth (happily). When we recouple with reality, well that is really the question du jour.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:19
#34697
We've never been "coupled with reality".
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:03
#34752
one man's/woman's reality, is another's myth.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:49
#34669
Hopefully, this comes across correctly.
She is also on YouTube giving monthly updates about the report - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h75TNIkZ9PI&feature=channel_page
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:50
#34671
Why isn't Mr. Dean LeBaron on our radar screen?
Harvard University. Harvard Business School. Years on Wall Street. Published three noteworthy books.
He makes videos from his kitchen table that are more informative than any of those hearings on C-Span.
http://www.deanlebaron.com/index.html#video
Scroll down a little on his site.
I recommend his video "CriminalBehavior:Goldman Sachs" for a nice taste of calling a spade a spade on frontrunning.
And "La Fraternite de Goldman Sachs" for a really good big picture analysis of how this will go down in history.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:57
#34810
Agreed....Everyone should visit Dean Lebaron's site...
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:51
#34673
Too big to fail ended Sept 15th? Huh, is that what he said?
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:27
#34706
Good pick up. I think Elizabeth Warren was too stupified by what he said to respond before the end of the segment.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:00
#34747
That guy is obviously a clueless, talking head, dumbshit, to say something so illinformed and, well, just plain fucking stupid.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:07
#34827
uh, former congressman...........figures........
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 07:43
#35077
he may be clueless, but he's an expert on spin.
see how he spinned that around just quick enough before the break so that no one could rebut?
that way, viewers are left with the voice of 'reason' to rebut all of warren's claims in their mind.
nice technique actually.
Pres O is a master at it.
luckily, more or more peeps are beginning to understand the technique behind the 'hocus pocus' and see it for what it is.
smoke & mirrors
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 22:42
#34975
That's right. What an asshole . . . had to do a little slight-of-hand reframing to undermine the entire presentation. Wonder what the average viewer thought.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:55
#34676
I think the best indicators of sentiment are from laymen (people with prior knowledge always spin a bias), so the male anchor's comments at the end "I'm glad that too big to fail world ended on Sept. 15" leave me a little confused.
Either it was unfortunately worded, or it shows just how unreceptive everyone is to the truth outlined a mere 30 seconds earlier.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:56
#34678
Notice that this is from MSNBC, the network the right wing nut cases hates. Meanwhile, they are actually putting up some real reporting, while Fox business is hiring Don Ismus to complement the "analysts" they have with suits and ties out of the 70's.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:58
#34680
Sirs,
I might suggest that I have seen none of the scrutiny of the COP's loss numbers that the supervisors estimates were subject to. I'd suggest looking under the covers at the methodology. Are you suggesting that the COP can produce better loss estimates than the 200+ staff of the FRS, OCC and FDIC?
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:41
#34723
Yes. The mathematical models used by the FDIC et al appear to have rather rosy parameters.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 17:58
#34681
Sirs,
I might suggest that I have seen none of the scrutiny of the COP's loss numbers that the supervisors estimates were subject to. I'd suggest looking under the covers at the methodology. Are you suggesting that the COP can produce better loss estimates than the 200+ staff of the FRS, OCC and FDIC?
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:03
#34684
She is corporal obvious dancing with major fools.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:03
#34685
Anyone see this SHAMELESS pump by Gasparino and CNBC on BAC AH?
they are reporting on john paulson buy like it is "new" news or purchases
this man bought over a billion of bac shares at 10. was widely reported
CNBC pumped the stock up 5% AH from a terrible close on MISLEADING news.
"Among the buyers: Mr. Paulson, who made a fortune with his 2006 bet
that housing would tumble and snapped up $1 billion of Bank of America
shares, a person familiar with the situation said Wednesday. A
spokesman for Mr. Paulson's firm declined to comment."
this was from May 2009 WSJ. also reported by cramer on his site. now he's pumping it tonite. he even was fooled as i was
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124286483924941471.html
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:37
#34717
Tripps....excellent post, thank you.
Question, which is probably best answered by the ZHers with experience/knowledge of hedge fund operations: could the paulson BAC purchase just be a flip on his part? i.e., could he have rolled the dice big time knowing that once it was reported there would be a certain group of lemmings who would follow and, naturally, the corollary is could the shares have already been dumped at 16 or whatever? thanks for any insights.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:42
#34726
Heard he already did flip, but haven't confirmed that. Anyone know for sure?
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:10
#34762
of course he could have flipped already. he could have sold have. he's up 65% in a few months. its not easy to flip that many shares so he would be selling into strength along the way, or scaling out
the bottom line is cnbc fooled me and many others. i was ignoring people's posts that sid it was old and then I realized...christ. they are right. I was buying bac back at 11 on this news in MAY!!!!!!! scumbags
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 22:18
#34961
Blue Horseshoe loves Anacott Steel
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:08
#34689
I just love elizabeth warren. She should be president
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:02
#34751
I was thinking the same thing... she cuts right through the BS... but people like her are too smart to run... she probably wakes up everything morning asking herself "what was I thinking accepting this position?".
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 22:45
#34977
She'd go over a hell of a lot better than Hillary, too. Move over, Barry Obama!
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:09
#34692
The only news on Bloomberg today is that 'the recession is over.....'
Bernake seems to have pulled of the greatest escape trick on the face of this earth...maybe he can teach david blaine a trick or two..
Its a shame that all we can do is watch these clowns perform in this circus.....
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:51
#34740
It's probably up to the historians a decade hence to decide if he escaped or not. My guess is you are probably correct, history will give him a bye. I'm not sure right now who *would* get the blame. We may never get around to figuring it out. For example, who do they blame today for the fall of the Roman Empire in 471AD? There are about as many theories on that as there are theorists.
History has a hard time keeping track of the playerz when the information about who they were and what they did becomes lost in the general destruction they brought down upon themselves. If they felt bad about it all, they didn't manage to pass that information forward for our benefit. We repeat history at least in part because history likes to murder most anyone who could talk about what went wrong.
cougar
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:07
#34757
cougar,
"history will give him a bye." as always, that will depend on who writes the history, yes?
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:26
#34776
Hah. Well if the people running things now still do so in a decade, then I'd say they earned the right to pose history however suits them. To the victor the spoils.
Failing that, I hope someone later still cares enough about the subject to give them a sound thrashing. It would be a shame indeed to lose such a great teachable moment, as they call it.
cougar
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:17
#34695
When is the shi* gonna hit the fan? I'm tired of everyone running around claiming the economy is saved when it's all lies!!!
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:55
#34742
When middle-class (soon to be povery-class)America realizes that the Federal Reserve Bank, Goldman Sachs, and the Politicians have destroyed their lives.>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOTZ7dn_gsg
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:40
#34794
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice/4
The Quiet Coup
hat tip to jesse's americain cafe for this one.
maybe it is zero intelligence material....:)
makes me want to get my guns out again ......damn it...
when o when is the time? how much more of this do we have to endure?
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:58
#34814
Excellent article! Thanks for the link.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:49
#34803
Hey it's only fair. When your deep seated dream is complete control, complete domination, everyone is trying to destroy your dream so it's only fair that you destroy everyone elses dreams. RIGHT!!
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:25
#34704
The market (S&P500), closed pretty much where it was at the time the Fed anouncement was released....so...
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:00
#34748
...so...what?
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:07
#34826
Just too many people calling for a crash.
How many people in main street media called for a crash before the crash last year......know what I mean?We just
good articles; my newest bookmarked finance site ..http://www..
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 01:18
#35021
Let's all sing the SPAM song for petERR. He obviously needs accompaniment at his lameass NED site.
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 03:46
#35036
It's the same spammer using multiple login names linking to the same ridiculous site
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:32
#34711
Anyone watched this interview with Nassim Taleb yet? Good stuff.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1212567075&play=1
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:41
#34722
Great link...thx!
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:40
#34795
My friend Nassim was spot on...Roubini sat there like a dope on Hope!
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:55
#34805
Roubini is playing to the masses and is trying to be as non-commital as possible... ruling every possibility in so he can't be wrong... I used to read the info on his site everyday... but haven't been there in months...
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:21
#34852
His facebook has more action than his RGEmonitor...daily kills by his students trying to pass....
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:33
#34871
He does think a lot of himself... he is up to ~$5000 for a subscription now... not quite sure he is worth it at this point...
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 21:46
#34939
Yeah...Has anyone seen Nouriel's BALLS lately?? I think Bernanke's boys took him out to the woodshed about 5 months ago, and left them on the counter, because Nouriel has turned into the most non-commital, milk-toast commentator lately...completely soft on all issues he used to have his hair on fire over daily!!
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 22:14
#34959
I agree... he drank the kool-aide that was spiked with lithium...
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:34
#34714
This lady is 'hope.'
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 22:29
#34965
Am I completely naive to "hope" that a political solution is still possible?
I have less than 20% faith left at this point (and no, I'm not gonna cover my shorts at SPY 120, that was done long ago).
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:36
#34715
Did I hear this correctly that Pat Buchanan and Elizabeth Warren are in agreement?
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:38
#34718
Ok, so if (According to Ms. Warren) we're looking at a huge CRE mortgage problem, then why the F is IYR making new highs?
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:42
#34728
Because it is impossible to be rational with the irrational.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:44
#34731
Cuz people er dum
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 23:49
#35003
Because Ms. Warren appeals to logic, fairness and the ancient concept of "accounting".
She fails to address the more disturbing question of whether said concepts mean squat.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:42
#34725
was that really msnbs? she spoke truthfully although she hemmed and hawed at the end like a bureaucrat trying to keep the trap door under her chair intact....
no one dared discuss the reimposition of mark to market...i guess one takes what one can...
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:18
#34771
At the begining of a crisis you lie. In the middle of a crisis you say nothing to call question to the lie you told at the begining. At the end of a crisis you stick to the story you told at the begining and privately congratulate yourself for displaying leadership, and the world rolls on much as it did and soon forgets that you said anything at all.
But if instead you find yourself at the *end* of the world -- if instead the crisis grows and consumes all and the way forward is utterly lost -- then you finally tell the truth.
This is how we bargain with the historians, who tend to focus on last words above all. The last words of the soon-to-be-lost are sometimes all that goes forward.
cougar
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:53
#34741
I am a Republican and beleive that Warren is telling the truth and looking out for the people - exactly what she is supposed to do with COP. The Wall Street Journal ran an editorial last week on Citi basically with the same stance that Warren takes.
Look guys, this isn't about Dems or Republicans anymore or liberals or conservatives. It's about whether we turn our country over to a bunch of kleptocrats. The US is quickly becoming more like Russia - not the other way around. Do you think the powerful pols and business owners in Russia give a s*** about what party anyone is in?
The sad thing is that not many people besides Warren and a few others are willing to say what they really think when its contrary to instructions. I really hope that Americans can get some kind of backbone again.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:05
#34755
From a left-leaning independent: Amen brother.
Big Finance can and does take from whatever party happens to be around. Doing what's right, or even saying what's right, seems to be too much to expect from today's "leaders."
I'd love to be a fly on the wall to hear what Wall Street titans really think of even the most powerful politicians. A mixture of contempt and ridicule, I'd guess.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:11
#34837
Indeed.
The more the kleptocrats keep folks fighting over the crumbs the longer the powers that be can continue the great robbery.
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 03:53
#35038
I like your comment, but you might want to think about how you identify yourself. You are not a slave to a party, you are not the car you drive, and you are not your job.
From your comments you have the intelligence to be more and transcend above party affiliation - to think for yourself. You could still appreciate republican concepts as well as borrowing ideas from libertarians and perhaps even a few ideas from the democrats whose hearts are in the right place looking out for the little guy (not the limo liberals).
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 08:24
#35115
Bravo Apocalypse Now! Epiphany can be difficult to achieve in others. However, I applaud your continued effort.
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 07:48
#35079
AMEN X5
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:57
#34743
I'm amazed she hasn't had an "accident" yet.........
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:55
#34807
That way of handling things is off the table for now. There's too much scrutiny running around. Handling this with intimidation would have horrendous backlashes.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:42
#34883
Plus there is no need. No one is paying attention in any numbers. What's on TV tonight is more important.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:42
#34884
Plus there is no need. No one is paying attention in any numbers. What's on TV tonight is more important.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 18:59
#34745
I wasn't so sure about her.
But now that the latest COP report is under Smack Down for over reach, her credibility is rising in my mind. I'm actually elated that she is standing up crossing the fine line. Congress is on the hook now - They have been warned by their COP.
I had my Catharsis last week when I transferred my business from BofA to a locally controlled bank which I think is trustworthy. When I cancelled my HELOC at BofA yesterday they did not ask why.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:08
#34759
Thanks for the reminder. Need to close my BAC accounts too.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:11
#34764
Just be sure to do some good due diligence on that local bank. But I long for the day I can extricate our finances from B of A. They're idea of customer service is charging you $40 for using one of their pens in the branch.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:22
#34854
their idea of customer service is telling you to
go fuck yourself and then charging 40 usd for
the advice...
i hated boa before this crisis started and hate
them even more now....i would love to see that
crooked arrogant organization in ashes....
their customer service consists of nothing but
know-it-all punks....i left them long ago...
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 08:29
#35121
when my mother passed the "level" of their empathy and customer service as I tried to close the account (having produced the appropriate probate documents) was grotesque. that day they lost my business forever and insured that I would engage in word of mouth advertising every chance I get. the full story is available upon request.
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 03:53
#35037
Id love to do the same but be careful you arent too early on that - small banks are going under and will continue to be allowed to go under (assuming you have less than 250k this isnt a problem assuming FDIC still have the dough and right now the UST will make sure FDIC have the dough) BAC , Citi , JPChase , WFC are all too big to fail and the Govn will not let deposit holders down - there would be a run on every bank under the Sun if that were to happen.
If you get worried about one of those large institutions its time to go to the safe/matress/hole in the backyard.
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 08:16
#35104
"safe/matress/hole in the backyard"
That's a diversified portfolio!
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:02
#34750
So the banks are misstating asset values on their books, which in turn allows them to report false profits which in turn allows them to pay themselves outrageous bonuses. They can keep this scam up for many years as long as they grease the skids in Wash DC. We are being screwed. Damn I hate they way our nation has gone to hell.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:03
#34753
And so it begins...
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:04
#34754
Wow her whole argument is based on a lie. THERE WAS NO CHANGE TO FAS 157. FAS 157 always allowed for means other than the last trade to value assets in illiquid markets in fact it requires it. Coming out of the Congressional hearings the FASB rep stated there was no need to change the rule as it already addressed valuing assets in illiquid markets all they would do was provide additional guidance on what constituted an illiquid market. In particular he mentioned providing specific examples. My god the head of the TARP oversight committee doesn't know this? Or maybe she does but it doesn't suit her agenda? Don't believe me? I dare you to find one article confirming FAS 157 was actually eliminated or modified in some way other than clarifying the existing rule on valuing assets in illiquid markets.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:09
#34760
Oooh, so everything is fairly valued, and bank's books are transparent afterall! I can sleep better. Thanks Milkweed.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:57
#34811
Sounds like a CPA craving cover for signing off on Dog Shit financial statements.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:07
#34825
1. The ONLY possible reason for M2M relaxation was to HIDE the fact that the major banks are ALL insolvent.We just
good articles; my newest bookmarked finance site ..http://www..
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 01:20
#35022
Ned SPAM above
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:07
#34830
the banks had to get the 'additional guidance' because their CPAs were getting very nervous. there was a change which gave the CPAs cover for any future problems. there was a fasb vote on the matter as well. go to fasb dot org and review the records at the time as well as the board meeting and the vote (which was not unanimous).
repeat, there was a change (caps not needed for emphasis at ZH).
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:12
#34839
You're making a precise argument that is technically true. And totally misleading.
There is really no effective difference between changing a standard formally and "providing additional guidance" with regard to how that standard is implemented (and enforced).
When you wrote:
" all they would do was provide additional guidance on what constituted an illiquid market."
...you admitted there were real changes in the intent of the standard - the same as changing it!
Warren was perfectly right in the effect of the FASB actions at the time. But all that did is delay the inevitable... because the accounting cheaters are now becoming unintentional landlords. We'll see how long that lasts.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:08
#34758
At first I thought she was going to mention this:
Harry Markopolos: CDS Fraud Will Make Madoff Look "Small-Time"
http://www.businessinsider.com/harry-markopolos-cds-fraud-will-make-madoff-look-small-time-2009-8
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 03:58
#35039
I've been saying this for a while, and it should be a focus of project mayhem:
"New York Post: [Markopolos] says there are evildoers out there who will make the Ponzi scum "look like small-time." Markopolos gave a speech to 400 of the faithful at the Greek Orthodox Church in Southampton and predicted major scandals will soon be revealed about the unregulated, $600 trillion, credit-default swap market. "To put it in simple terms, it is like buying fire insurance policies from five different insurance companies on your neighbor's house and then burning down the house," he said.
This is the whistleblower on Madoff, he was ignored a few times.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:11
#34763
...and she didn't even mention the Prime and Alt A ARMs that are beginning their reset tsunami. The dollars are bigger than the subprime ARMs and yet nobody mentions it.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:40
#34793
Pointing to the tsunami and saying "hey that looks bad" would constitute leadership, but entails some risk of being wrong. Being wrong is worse than not being seen as a leader since these days leadership is scare anyway and nobody recognizes it even when they see it.
So the default response is to say nothing. You stay out of trouble and you might have a chance to lead the survivors after the tsunami, too. Win win.
It's dark humor. Laugh. But get yourself off the beach anyway.
cougar
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:17
#34845
As a combat veteran I am sure that the folks at Utah and Omaha beaches said the very same thing.
Remember, tracers work both ways is the refrain to which you speak.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 21:11
#34908
that's a very interesting thought there. tracer work both ways. kinda like a google search and flag@shithouse.org
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 22:39
#34972
Indeed. You might like this:
http://www.murphys-laws.com/murphy/murphy-war.html
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:14
#34766
Great response no wonder you are anonymous. How about posting a link to an article confirming M2M actually was repealed or modified.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:09
#34834
the minutes and recording of the fasb board are at fasb dot org.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:58
#34897
Here you go dipstick:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fasb-approves-more-mark-market-flexibility
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:16
#34768
Per her mention of funny acctg. FASB is having a board meeting about re-writing the FASB 157 regs. It has to do with writing down assets to their fair value, reserves, taking off balance sheet items on, etc.
It would wipe out lots of banks.
The meeting is 8:30 AM tomorrow (Thursday). Google FASB and you can click to hear the meeting live.
The rumor is they loosened the rules in March and are pissed the banks did what they did. Now they are looking to toughen the rules beyond what they were before.
A tough ruling could cause quite the equities sell-off.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:20
#34851
Especially with hold to maturity.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:27
#34859
which is why a bank holiday will happen
sept/oct
but her point about life continuing without the
dinasaurs is so correct...
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:45
#34888
And you think the outocome of that meeting has not already been determined? You need a trip to the woodshed, friend. :^)
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 21:22
#34918
the meeting tomorrow won't determine any finality...the fasb spokesperson said that any changes at all will take time and nothing is expected to happen until 2010.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:16
#34769
BBC:
"The upside to a gradual recovery is that prices are less likely to spike"
not a conspiracy nut but why is it that watching BBC no different than watching CNBS?
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:27
#34860
they are both cia controlled newsfakers....
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:18
#34770
Forget the networks. I just watched the two Dean Le Baron videos Milton recommended. The man is brilliant, and staggeringly coherent. Thanks Milton, Anon
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:23
#34773
Warren was not talking about any FASB proposals to change FAS 157 she specifically stated M2M was changed in some way to allow banks to not have to mark to market. This is patently false there was NO CHANGE to FAS 157 (M2M). Banks have been improving because the market for their once illiquid assets has been improving not because of any change to M2M. Once again there was NO change to M2M and therefore improvement to the banks balance sheets had absolutely NOTHING to do with a change in M2M because there was NO change to M2M. Warrens whole argument is based on a lie.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:36
#34788
I wouldn't expect a reply to a comment like this on this website :-)
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:58
#34813
I watched the hearings, Chief. I guess the question is what in the hell were you smoking?
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:13
#34840
34773...take a look at the 10Q filed by WFC last friday and tell me how they were able to write up their book, per FASB 157 modifications, by over 5 billion (2.8 b after taxes).
no, i won't link the 10Q, go to edgar. to make it easy for you, the specific notes as to what i just mentioned are in the first few pages. after you have done this (it should take less than 15 minutes, please report back. thanks)
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:23
#34857
milkweed,
I suggest you try and spoon feed your Banana flavored Gerber at Yahoo financial or some other such place. We don't eat slop from a glass jar here.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 21:42
#34935
"Banks have been improving because the market for their once illiquid assets has been improving"
A. "The market" is essentially the Fed.
B. Did you happen to see the news today that declines in home prices accelerated? Do you know what it means when both the first and second derivatives are negative?
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:25
#34775
I wonder...with all of this 'news' coming to the main stream media surface, about a crash this fall, I'm beginning to think it is another head fake and the markets will continually rise. They shouldn't but I wonder....
Just too many people calling for a crash.
How many people in main street media called for a crash before the crash last year......know what I mean?
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 20:40
#34881
Good point. I have pondered that as well. The MSM is not calling for it, however. Even Marketwatch on PBS tonight had a segment on how the Recession is over and the pump is now primed for an unexpectedly vigorous recovery, like in 1982. The reasoning was a little thin, especailly the rationale that autos lead us out of recessions (I thought it was housing). If this were just another recession, that might be a valid point, But, alas, it is not.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:29
#34779
All she is saying is that a political crisis is coming. But who doesn't know that. The question is,which side are you on? Hopefully, you have more to offer than a petit bourgeois mindset, because if you don't, and you wind up in the majority and in power, all you're going to have is an extreme statist, rightist, militarist society. That's what Japan is heading for right now.
It's because, when underclass types get unemployed, they for the most part become right wing, not left wing.
What has yet to be said is that when the political crisis comes to the U.S., it will deliver the coup de grace to whatever is left of economic activity in this country.
We're going to have a class war--why not face it?
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:44
#34799
Bingo. That's the world she lives in, she knows how it works. Best pay 'ttention.
on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 19:33
#34781
Let he who has googled FASB rule change cast the first stone:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123867739560682309.html