End Game - Would US Police/Troops Fire Upon US Citizens?

Cognitive Dissonance's picture

End Game - Would US Police/Troops Fire Upon US Citizens?


Cognitive Dissonance


This is the first in an occasional series examining the end of the American Empire and the global shock waves it will produce. Contrary to popular belief I suspect the unraveling will take place over many years, decades even, with sudden plunges and slow partial recoveries aka dead cat bounces. I call this series of examinations “End Game”.


I would wager that the vast majority of people reading this essay have already come to their own conclusion regarding the answer to the title’s query. Certainly you may have several qualifiers and stipulations with which you framed your answer and maybe even a few facts and proofs ready for quick rebuttal if challenged. But my own experience with explosive questions such as this is that there are few who have not already formed an opinion on the matter. If you have not you would be the exception to the rule.

And at this point in the meltdown it would be fair to say there are no correct or incorrect answers to be found, only supposition, assumption and what I expect will be full throated argument to follow in the comment section. May I suggest that whatever answer you’ve come up with wasn’t necessarily arrived at through careful deliberation or contemplation, but rather as an integral part of your overall belief system? And while you may consider all that you believe to be valid and fact based, for all people other than possibly the sociopaths walking among us this is far from the case.

Personally I find that sitting down and writing about a subject forces me to push through all the fuzzy logic and tenuous connections that make up my system of beliefs. For most of us what we think we know or believe is similar to a loosely connected debris field of facts, thoughts, myths, hopes and desires floating on the mind’s surface. Only in this case there really isn’t much mixing or removal of the thought debris by intellectual wave action, just a lifelong rearrangement of the floating deck chairs. When strong emotions are brought into the mix, it’s like a hurricane came through and made an even bigger mess of things.




Much of our belief system is firmly stuck in heavy mud by our late twenties, having been absorbed and adopted during our early years by way of our state mandated education, the popular press, corporate branding initiatives, consensus opinion, deliberately false public myth making and the always present and rarely subtle corporate and governmental propaganda machines. And what we call our mid life crisis is simply that period of time when we begin to call into question many of the basic and fundamental tenets that have guided us to that point. We usually get through this moment of clarity when the bills start piling up and the libido finally begins to fail care of our chemically treated foodstuffs.    

In practice what we believe is not a coherent jigsaw puzzle held together by reason and “facts”, but rather little islands of hope and belief that would contradict or outright cancel each other like matter and anti-matter if they ever came into contact with one other. I see this all the time not just here in The Hedge (both in the comment section and in various articles from multiple sources) but in newspapers, magazines, blogs, TV and radio; the list really is endless. Selective memory and a convoluted thought process isn’t just the domain of think tanks and the MSM. The alternative press and blogosphere are often just as guilty as well, it being one of the hazards of swimming in the same festering cesspool.

Read or listen to any person long enough and you eventually begin to detect errors in logical thought and fact as well as serious conflicts between a person’s articles, books, and lectures; even at times within a specific article or essay. I find this holds true for nearly everyone (including myself) regardless of our denial that it’s happening. Courage is required to challenge our own thinking and weed these discrepancies out. Sadly it’s so much easier to isolate and ignore these inconsistencies then to purge them and face the ugly truths left behind. We hide from ourselves long before we flee the boogie man. The masks we wear in public are crude imitations of the ones we carry within.




Judging from conversations I’ve had with many people from diverse backgrounds the majority of souls seem to come down into one of two camps. For the most part the responses I’ve gathered consist of either “No….but” and “Yes….but” with the clear winner the middle ground of qualified “buts”. When questioned more than superficially and asked to explain or justify their stance, many shamelessly switch back and forth between sides and arguments, proving to me that their opinion is based upon nothing more substantial than wishful thinking and hope. However, most do understand that there are huge variables involved anytime a gun is pointed and fired, regardless of whether the person fired upon is armed or not.

Obviously at this point in the great American unwind no police or military units are patrolling the streets gunning down all who are seen as threatening. And this wasn’t what I was suggesting would happen……at least not unless worse case scenarios are achieved. But the end of the American Empire is approaching, a process that will unravel over decades. And it would be hopelessly naïve or even terminally ignorant to believe that any high ranking “authority” in America has anyone’s interest first other than their own. We can love our slave masters all we want, but they love us only for any remaining productive worth we may offer and no more.

Any remaining belief in high ranking honorable “public servants” should have been thoroughly abandoned after witnessing the outrageous antics of the financial elite and politically connected over the last ten years and particularly the last five. We are all expendable cannon fodder and contrary to any official assurances from the professional propagandists that we are all loved and cared about, we have always been so. Denial of this basic fact is the only real roadblock to a fuller understanding of what’s being done in my name and yours.

False hope inevitably binds us to truly impossible situations and this has consistently been our Achilles Heel, a weakness ruthlessly exploited by the rich and powerful for millennium. The almost universally accepted Abrahamic religious redeemer complex is the ultimate (self) enslavement vehicle. In effect, it forgives those who dish out the punishment and glorifies the suffering of those who are being punished. Talk about your dysfunctional relationship, how are we to live in peace and harmony when the basic tenets of the majority of the world’s religions glorify those who grind our bones to make their bread?


Abrahamic Religions


First let’s take a look at who or what would be patrolling the streets under the guise of “keeping the peace”, “finding the terrorists” or whatever excuse the government manufactures in order to justify placing armed uniformed men and women in the population centers of America. And for the purpose of this essay there is the assumption that something has happened or was caused to happen that will be used by the powers that be to deploy police/troops in America under the cover of maintaining law and order.

BTW, we should clearly understand that the real reason the troops will be deployed is to maintain and possibly even consolidate the existing power structure of the powers that be. Or at a minimum to keep the lynch mobs and revenge seekers at bay long enough to make their escape. Is this truly that surprising? After all we have devolved into a banana republic and that’s the way all bananas are eventually peeled.

Initially there would be the local police, supposedly the first line of defense in maintaining the peace. And despite the obvious fact that over the last ten or so years they have been increasingly militarized, the police are for the most part trained to resolve conflict through non-violent means. Or at least that’s the official public myth. Only after you don’t agree with their non violent solution do they pull out their Tasar or Glock. If the first thing you experience is fear when you see flashing lights in the rearview mirror, I would ask you to reconsider the validity of their “non-violent” mission.

Just conduct a “police brutality” YouTube search if you’d like a video lesson on officially sanctioned violence in America. Between the images cruiser dashboard cams have documented and those candid camera videos various citizens have captured via camera phone it’s quite clear police violence isn’t just perpetrated by a few rogue cops on an occasional basis. Instead it appears to be a systemic problem that’s growing worse by the day. A Google word search using the same term will bring back tens of thousands of hits, more than enough to turn your stomach and send the meek and mind controlled scurrying back to the safety of their warm beds. The formerly carefully hidden police state is now coming into full view.




The second line of defense would be the National Guard. If we were talking twenty years ago I might make a disparaging remark about weekend warriors more dangerous to themselves than to others. But eight years of rotations through Iraq and Afghanistan have turned the National Guard into something your father wouldn’t recognize. Without getting too deep into the merits of today’s Guard, better trained has its pluses and minuses as long as we understand what they have now been trained to do.

Then there is the military itself, most likely Army and possibly Special Forces units that will provide the actual boots on the ground. Ever since the creation of NORTHCON on October 1, 2002, supposedly as a direct result of 9/11, the political and financial elite have been overtly preparing for the inevitability of social unrest. Covert preparations extend back decades under cover of any available and plausible excuse in the book.

The military readily admits that it’s not properly trained to execute (no pun intended) domestic police actions and they agree they would be poorly suited to maintain order during any chaotic domestic uprising. And I agree. Home invasions by the military would be just as distasteful for Americans as they are for the Iraqis regardless of what it’s called and under whatever bullshit legal premise it has been authorized.

I can’t help but wonder if the UN Security Council will sanction an invasion of America by a “coalition of the willing” when our time comes around? Don’t laugh because I’m being deadly serious. Do not underestimate the measures the desperate will use to remain in power and don’t assume the rich and powerful are physically located only in the USA. It’s a global game and America has been the home field only for the last 70 or so years. It helps to remember that stock sectors aren’t the only thing that rotates. BTW notice that the eagle below covers all of North America, not just the USA.




On a side note, I still find it amazing how many political/military actions were a direct result of 9/11 yet nobody wants to seriously discuss what really went down that day. Careful because you might not like the stench of whatever it is you dig up. We all complain about political and governmental secrecy, but the vast majority of Americans don’t want to know what’s going on and are happier when they are deceived. The big lie we gratefully participate in is that we are a free and self directed people. It’s so much better to let buried dogs lay undisturbed where they can quickly decompose out of sight and mind.

And let’s not forget the foreign troops that will be invited to conduct joint exercises on American soil. On February 14, 2008 Northcom and the Canada Command agreed to come to each other’s “aid” in the event of a civil crisis such as floods, forest fires, hurricanes, earthquakes and “the effects of a terrorist attack”. While this description comes from the PR propaganda on Northcom’s web site I would love to read the actual document. Naturally Congress wasn’t consulted and were actually sidestepped entirely. It didn’t matter anyway since they were too busy whoring for re-election contributions at the time, a time honored spring, summer, fall and winter Congressional/Corporate pornographic mating ritual.

Of course, the obvious inference here is that if American citizen soldiers are unable or unwilling to “police” their fellow US citizens, we can always call in the Canadians to help us out. Certainly our Canadian brothers and sisters will be subjected to plenty of official propaganda to prepare them for their friendly invasion. I’m sure the psyops division of both countries can come up with plenty of video of homeless Americans swimming across the Saint Lawrence River in search of Canadian food stamps and citizenship….or at least their version of the green card. There are many other “agreements” with NATO and other individual countries that have been less publicized than this one if that’s even remotely possible

Now for the sleeper “police” force very few seem willing to acknowledge or even aware enough of to intelligently discuss, but who will most certainly be invited to the nationwide block party. Naturally I’m talking about private military contractors of the Blackwater/Xe ilk, also known as privately paid (with taxpayer funds of course) and controlled mercenaries of the increasingly privatized and corporatized America. This isn’t new but rather just a recycling of an old tradition of the Federal Government using private entities to provide “security” and “crowd control”. Blackwater is just the latest.




While everyone was watching what Blackwater and others like them were (and still are) doing over in Iraq and Afghanistan (and in many other countries where they are used as embassy and corporate “security” forces) rarely do we hear about the untold billions they’re being paid for services rendered in the good old US of A. Their presence in New Orleans after Katrina was a primer on how things will be done in the future. The almighty buck is their master and it’s the only flag they salute. God bless Uncle Ben.

Last, but most assuredly not least, will be the alphabet soup of government intelligence agencies (domestic and foreign) as well as too numerous to count private “interests” pushing, prodding and provoking wherever they can to influence the outcome of the civil unrest. This will be done for any number of reasons that will most certainly be at cross purposes with the interests of the American people in general and the actual protestors in particular. This will include the FBI, CIA, DIA, Mossad, MI6, BND and dozens of other public, private and foreign “security” and intelligence organizations whose primary purpose will be the protection of the vested interests of powerful people, corporations and countries. Guess where that leaves you and me? 

So who will take to the streets? Ultimately this is impossible to say because the situation will be fluid and the variables unknown and in a constant state of flux. To be frank the time to push back was late in 2008 when the globalist’s financial agenda flipped from covert to overt and their plans were finally exposed for all to see who wished to look. But decades of conditioning and propaganda was sufficient to keep the American people trapped within their own minds and unable to muster the courage to begin the process of breaking free. And once TARP was rammed through without significant or sustained resistance, the financial elite knew it was game on and they’d better get it all while the getting was good.

And getting it all is precisely what they’ve done over the last 2 plus years as private debt was systematically bought by the Federal Reserve for 100 cents on each dollar in the name of “saving” the system. Now the next leg down has begun (I am not measuring economic legs by the stock market) and where it stops nobody really knows. But after 3 years of worsening economic conditions, carefully camouflaged by an artificially pumped stock market, more and more American citizens are waking up to the fact that they’ve been ripped off and to some extent they’ve let it happen. Or at the very least they barely said a word other than bitch and complain to each other about the highway robbery.


Highway Robbery


This is where the really destructive and ultimately self defeating rage will spring from. Obviously it will be acted out as simple righteous indignation over the repeated daylight robberies of the US treasury by public and private entities. But just like a women scorned, there is no anger quite like that enjoyed by the person who suddenly realizes he or she has been conned and the active ingredient was his or her own greed and willing participation. Facing this ugly self revelation, the ego has no choice but to push every emotional button it can find in a desperate attempt to keep the mind from recognizing that it is partially responsible for its own continuing enslavement.

What usually arises from this internal blame shifting and emotional thrashing about is mindless anger directed at the “responsible” con men whose motto is there will always be customers ready to purchase the lies and self deception they’re selling. Since we can’t possibly shoulder any blame for our dance with the devil no matter how small, this anger will eventually be directed towards any handy minority (group or individual, it doesn’t really matter) who happens to be in the wrong place at the right time.

Case in point is the very recent public services union bashing, themselves just another greedy patsy on a long list of willing participants in our own self destruction. Next up is unionized grocery baggers at the local Safeway followed by Meals-On-Wheels delivery drivers. There are no lows that will not be plumed by a population trying to escape responsibility and self examination and this too will be skillfully used against us.

There is one defining characteristic we Americans proudly boast of that is singularly unique in the entire world and it has nothing to do with our standard of living, GDP or total debt. “We The People” not only believed our leader’s lies about American exceptionalism, but we bought into those lies hook, line and sinker. And for several decades the lie worked magnificently thanks to the magic of a widely accepted reserve currency which enabled us to export most of the corrosive effects of our money printing (aka inflation) outside our borders and the military to enforce it when reluctance surfaced…..such as Iraq and Afghanistan to name just two. Good times were had by all, the punch bowl never ran dry and it was all due to our superior abilities. Until now that is.

This is in contrast to the citizens of various Middle East countries (or much of the developing world for that matter) who are always painfully aware of their real state of existence. Or even the Europeans, who have lived through several thousand years of regime changes, invasions and oppression and for the most part have a much better understanding of the magnitude and scope of the official lies and propaganda and how the dance plays out.

Ultimately this didn’t save the Europeans from their own greed and self interested pursuits, but at least they aren’t completely shocked that it’s all coming apart……..once again. The ice cold shower of awakening we Americans are about to experience will be unlike anything any nation has gone through since possibly WW2 Germany beginning around 1942 when civilian centers were deliberately targeted by Allied bombing and the German population began to really feel the sting of their own self deception and mass delusion. While I have no way of knowing exactly how America’s electro shock therapy will play out, it seems self evident it’s coming if for no other reason than because I can hear the electrical generators firing up in the background. Clear!


Wake up surprise


How this affects the American psyche as well as the various ways it could play out is well beyond the scope of this essay, but suffice to say it will not be pretty. For some of us escape will be had by digging ever deeper into denial. For others, especially those who become caught up in the vicious cycle of endless anger and fits of self pity and rage, the obvious targets of their self destructive outbursts will be any low level authority figure who stands up to them and that all time favorite among those who diligently practice slave mentality, their fellow slaves. Following our passive/aggressive conditioning, many of us will seek to punish those like us before we ever consider lifting a finger against our own masters.

While I expect cooler heads among the aggrieved will attempt to exert an influence over the angry mobs and demonstrators, we must not diminish the ugly truth that there will be plenty of domestic and foreign entities that will see the coming American domestic strife and unrest as an opportunity to foment violent demonstrations and even armed and violent insurrection. The use of infiltrated agents and agent provocateurs to incite violence and disrupt peaceful protest is a well known and time honored technique used by private parties, governments and even the resistance itself (to maintain plausible deniability for example) to further their own particular goals.

The very fact that spontaneous demonstrations are by their nature unorganized and at best loosely controlled works against the intent of the people demonstrating when those who wish to disrupt and discredit are familiar with and comfortable using any means necessary to maintain or regain control over the population. The worst that can happen to any group of people working to unseat an existing power base is their failure to imagine the lengths to which those in power will go to keep it. Those who don’t lie cheat and steal for a living won’t give proper weight and consideration to the tendency of those who do so to continue to do so, let alone their desire to accelerate their methods of operation.


Same ole same old


One would think that once the American people begin to wake up to the extent and breadth of official corruption and manipulation that they would at least be temporarily disabused of seeking additional flights of fantasy. Sadly this is not the case at all. The well worn path many newly awakened minds take is to substitute one form of self delusion with another. A conditioned mind that has been shocked into awareness will immediately begin to seek simple answers that help them rationalize away their own self deception and participation. This tendency will be repeatedly and skillfully exploited by foreign and domestic psyops campaigns. Out of the frying pan and into the fire is an apt description for how it works.

For those who may doubt the veracity of that last paragraph, consider the long and extremely painful path you have walked to get to where you are now in your awakening. How many times have you become demoralized and depressed along the way? How often did you backslide into denial with each new and shocking revelation? How many times did you try to bargain with the truth in order to forget only to fail miserably? How much easier was it for you to adapt to and then accept what you desperately wished to deny because the world remained relatively normal during your acclimation period.

Your awakening happened over a minimum of many months and most likely years and as much as you may have wished you could, it’s impossible to forget once you have been exposed to the previously unthinkable. Now consider what your state of mind would be like if all that you’ve experienced was compressed into a few short months or even several weeks. This is what the average Joe is facing at some point in the future. To have your sense of self identity and community ripped from you by the very people you’ve wanted to believe were your protectors is never easy to deal with under the best of circumstances. The easy road to awareness is behind us and it’s all downhill from here.

So while I can’t answer the title’s question for you I can offer my own opinion as to whether or not Americans will be fired upon. The short answer is that of course they will. Why would you think otherwise when US history offers up dozens of examples to choose from. The powers that be are ego maniacs, the elites have hundreds of years of experience controlling the masses and the masses are mostly living their lives in denial. I consider it inevitable that when the uprisings begin and they turn really ugly that those who are paid to protect the powerful and their assets will follow orders and do precisely that.


Hat Tip to William Banzai7 for the image below. 


 WB7's Kent State


Once again you can’t see this from your own point of view because you most likely won’t be the one holding the riot gear and facing the screaming mobs. While I’m certain some within the police, military and National Guard will follow their heart and refuse to fire or even follow orders if doing so means hurting their fellow citizens, in effect declaring conscientious objector status, they will for the most part be a small minority and will be quickly weeded out of the ranks by the second or third round of protests.

Considering the insanity the police and troops will be facing as well as the economic collapse that threatens them as well, the police/troops will rally around each other and protect their own closed community using whatever means necessary. Throw in the mercenaries, the agent provocateurs, the psyops campaigns, the meddling from the various intelligence agencies and the only question I have is not if but when and how much.

Someone in the comment section the other day said that since the military is now an all volunteer fighting force, the standard of conduct has been raised and no one in the military would ever fire on their fellow citizens. While I would love to believe this, I see it from a different point of view. Those in the military want(ed) to be in the military, thus they were more likely to buy into military groupthink and its attendant mind control and propaganda. Rest assured that long before any uniformed service person (police or military) is asked to confront their fellow citizens they will be subjected to a barrage of intensive conditioning and will be propagandized to the nth degree.

In my opinion, to believe that the various forces arrayed against the protesting public won’t fire on them is to continue to believe in American exceptionalism and more specifically in the desire of the rich and powerful to finally see the error of their ways and thus immediately cease and desist from further exploitation and pillage. If this is the case, if this is what you believe, then all I can say is that you live in a dream world Neo.

On a more positive note I do think something has changed and it’s still not being recognized for what it is and what it might mean. The interim resolutions in Tunisia and Egypt, while undoubtedly unsettled and tenuous at best, did not result in the massive loss of lives many people and governments thought could and would happen. Libya is playing out how many expected Egypt and Tunisia would, with the powers that be fighting to retain power with modern weapons and no mercy.

My question is this, why didn’t Egypt and Tunisia go up in flames? I have some thoughts on why this is the case and I saw WB7 made mention of this change in one of his posts as well. The people who said no more to the powers that be didn’t show up with broken bottles, rocks and other assorted weapons ready to fight. Instead they just said no in as peaceful a manner as they could and they were saying no to the global Ponzi, not just the local branch. Instead of joining a mindless mob, people were praying, talking, playing music and at times even laughing. This is a dramatic sea change in the herd mentality and one that I hope to examine more closely in the future.



Cognitive Dissonance

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GeoffreyT's picture

My question is this, why didn’t Egypt and Tunisia go up in flames? 

Here's an answer I posted to someone else who wondered why there was so little violence in Egypt and Tunisia...


As we are all aware, oppressive regimes function primarily through the deployment of large cadres of thugs; the archetypal organisations are the NKVD under Beria, SAVAK under the Shah, or the Mukhabarat under Mubarak (Saddam's secret police were also called Mukhabarat).


'Ordinary' police functions are also brought to bear; undercover (clandestine) police infiltrate any anti-regime group that rises to prominence, and disrupt the operations of anti-regime forces by detaining and interrogating identified leaders (and in extremis, incarcerating or killing them).


On the off-chance that a demonstration actually occurs, the secret and standard police then weigh in with billy-clubs, batons, riot shields, tear gas, water cannon and the rest of the apparatus of brutality... with police agents provocateurs providing justification for the brutality (the people in black balaclavas breaking windows are not Socialist students; they are almost always undercover police).


In order for the man in the street (i.e., non-activists) to summon up the courage to participate in demonstrations, there is a requirement for him/her to assess that the likelihood of beatings/arrest/detention have fallen relative to prior expectations. once ordinary people lose the fear of the regime, you get massive numbers (as happened in Egypt on Jan 29th; the DAY AFTER the police mysteriously disappeared from the streets)


One key way to achieve this is to put in place a mechanism by which the costs of being a state thug (as perceived by the thug himself) rise far enough to furnish a disincentive.


What most commentators do not know is that on January 26th, 'Anonymous' obtained two lists: a list of undercover police, and a list of Mukhabarat agents. Names, addresses, telephone numbers (where applicable), kids, spouses... the works.


The source was the Ministry of the Interior, which was hacked at the same time that Anonymous took down large portions of the Egyptian gov't web presence; the latter furnished 'son et lumiere' for the former.


These names - along with the names of victims of the regime - were distributed to people in the movement, who then made contact with about 4% of the list in the wee small hours of the 27th (Cairo time), furnishing a polite but firm message: "We know who you are, where you live, where your children go to school; if the revolution is successful, you will lose everything if your involvement with the regime continues."


Several undercover police - single men, all known to be genuine thugs - were 'made examples of' to ensure that the message got across (the 'targeted' violence).


This tactic - which was planned following its successful implementation in Tunisia - was designed to force a re-appraisal by the state's thug-drones... to make them think: what are the odds that someone comes for me in the night, when I can't rely on my 'comrades'? Furthermore, if I continue to show up for work, what will happen to me if the regime falls?


Once the main body of undercover people decided it was not worth taking the chance that they would be victims of post-regime reprisals, the police forces had a huge problem with (ahem) truancy. 


By the 29th there was so little police presence on Cairo's streets that the citizenry had to self-organise for property protection - and a stunning absence of Mukhabarat infiltrators (who had a habit of inserting themselves into crowds, then to pull out their retractable batons and start whaling away on folks' heads). In fact some activists weer certain that the police were biding their time and were scared witless that the cops would descend en masse... but Anonymous was able to assure them that there would be no such event.


It took the regime a further 2 days  to round up enough 'hard core' thugs for it's 'counter-demonstrations' , using 'True Believers' (who always exist), plus 'shabaab kantacki' (youths who were bribed with 100 pounds plus a bucket of KFC... a modern version of the 'harafeesh') but it was already over and everyone knew it.



Precisely the same thing happened in Tunisia; Anonymous hackled and defaced online web-presences of the Ben Ali regime, while in the background it penetrated the regime's network infrastructure and took lists of the names of its operatives, which were then used to undermine the security apparatus.


THAT is what the media is missing: the WHY of the disappearance of the Egyptian police and the failure of the Tunisian regime's thugs to put a stop to the movement.


ALL coercive regimes rely on a cadre of thugs; those thugs operate on the assumption that when they take off their kevlar and go home, they will not be bothered.


That assumption is going to be tested with increasing frequency in all corners of the earth; there is not a regime on this ball of rock whose information security is not compromised. (Hence the mega-meeting between Clinton and almost all ambassadors and chefs de mission; and the repatriation of about 400 US 'officials' in the month prior, from front companies in all corners of the globe).


The tax-farmers are worried, because their livestock have lists of the wolves in sheep's clothing.



And as to whether the pigs and military would open fire? Not even an interesting question. Unless they are defanged by the same mechanism as was applied in Tunisia and Egypt (and Yemen and Bahrain now), they will do as they did during Shays' Rebellion, during the veterans rallies after WWI, and at Kent State, Waco, and Ruby Ridge. (Also, let's not forget that the pigs employ subhuman scum like Lon Horiuchi - bscumbags who will kill an unarmed woman and child and brag about it on a speaking tour).


Horiuchi is the inspiration for my re-statement of diderot's 1735 declaration, which I amended as follows:

Man will be free when the last politician is bludgeoned to death with the severed arm of the last police sniper.

silent's picture

Just asked the question on facebook, since I have a lot of military friends. So far, there are more flat-out yeses than there are yeses-with-qualifiers. Not a single 'no' response.

Trifecta Man's picture

Try rephrasing the question as "Would You Fire Upon US Citizens?" if you were ordered to.

OnanSpillerOfSeed's picture

First, a group will evolve into clear opposition of whatever the govt cooks up.  We all know the govt will cook up something that feeds itself and the power elite.  All for one and one... oops, all for one.  

Throw any label you want at this group.  Tea Party.  Hippies.  Jews.  Radical Muslims.  Communists. Neo-fascists.  Neo-conservatives.  Raging neo-narcissitic femonazi transphibians - it dont make a shit what you call them.  What matters is that everyone will know who they are by their dress, their hairstyles, their buzzwords and their actions.

Next, the propaganda machine will de-humanize them.  They will be further differentiated from the mainstream.  Fox news will be all over it with spins, twists, turns, subliminal programmming, grandstanding, etc.  The other networks will be less obvious more subtle but effective none the less.  They will be differentiated economically too.  Maybe all these raging neo-narcisstic femonazi transphibians will be protrayed to refuse to pay taxes, only drive Humvees and trade with each other in gold/silver.

Next, there will be some incident where a group of these raging neo-narcisstic femonazi transphibians with concealed weapon permits and plenty of registered guns will kill a bunch of innocent people.  It will be filmed.  Maybe a few baby seals (or more effect baby humans...) will be clubbed for good measure.       This will either be staged or induced by the govt covertly.   This incident will serve to solidify the majority of people into one front against this group.  It will also scare the shit out of people enough to give up more freedoms.  Sound familar?


Then, all firearms will be confiscated.  All those nasty transphibian ideas will be called to question.  Anyone with these ideas will be imprisoned, tortured and shot. Everyone else will get subtle, ever escalating reminders of what everyone needs to be afraid of and how the govt is keeping them safe - like the TSA when they check your junk and your hot wife's boobies...

Then, it will be easy peasy for the police to fire upon US citizens.  Hell, we will all cheer them on!  


There wont be any "No, but"s or "yes, but"s about it....

minus dog's picture

Police are a lot more likely to fire opon people, though that varies widely by location.  They already have to view everyone as a possible threat, and a large part of their training is the use of force on anyone who does certain things.

The military, on the other hand, is not in the habit of viewing people like that stateside - here, they're just another non-cop like the rest of us in terms of dealing with law enforcement.  When deployed, they have to follow far more restrictive rules of engagement than our domestic LEO's work under.

The military is required to do things - sometimes, very stupid things - to put the safety of others before their own safety.  Our law enforcement labors under no such restrictions.

Don't think that this isn't a topic of discussion among both officers and enlisted in the armed services.  You have a lot more to worry about from the police and various XYZ gov't agencies.

barliman's picture



    Will the American army fire on American protesters? No. Armies are not made up of mindless automatons or mercenaries. Thet are not led by maniacs. The last time we had gung-ho officers issuing unreasonable orders to troops the term "fragging" became a verb. The officers, non-comm's and troops likelihood of becoming an occupying force in their own country - nil. Those who want to believe Kent State was anything other than an outlier - enjoy your fantasies.

A social collapse may happen. War may come - whether we attack or are attacked. Belt tightening is guaranteed - but I have never met the police officer that would take on odds of 100:1 against them in a fire fight especially if the other side has better weapons and the ability to disappear into the populace.


PulauHantu29's picture

This is why we have the 2nd Amendment, right?

Geoff-UK's picture

"...why don't you go to the police?"


"I'm my own police."  --Harvey Keitel, "City of Industry"

onlooker's picture

It was a dark and moonless night with thunder and howling wind----- and we all sat around telling scary stories--- us here at Zero Hedge. here is mine


I was in the middle of the Watts Riots some many years ago. The Guard/Police did fire upon citizens. The whole area was ablaze and shooting was fairly constant. On top of my small building, I could see fires 360 degrees for 2 nights and bang, bang, bang.


I would hate to see this replayed. The destruction to the area was not rebuilt for many years. The loss of life was not replaceable.


For those who speak of revolt, let them also speak of viable alternate solutions. Change may be an end game, but funeral will there before change. Think of the dead before they go dead and construct another way out.

Strongbad's picture

What people don't take into consideration is the sheer physical size of the US.  Sure, a 1 million man army is big and advanced, but America is like 20 times bigger than Afghanistan and full of a lot more armed people.  You can't control that amount of space if the people don't want you to.

NMC_EXP's picture

Army-No way. Won't happen. I speak as an ex-officer.

My brother is a retired U.S. Army General Officer.  After the massacre of the Branch Davidians at Waco I asked him how the U.S. military would respond if the citizenry revolted.  At the time he was a one star and I am certain he hated Clinton's guts.

His response was that the officer corps swore an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic.

The emphasis on "and domestic" was his. 

I would not bet my life that the U.S. military won't fire on citizens.



bankruptcylawyer's picture

CD .you are one of the best posters on ZH. not only that, but you get the best people responding in the comments section. i have been here since the blog days. i am waiting for your book to come out. 

thanks for your writing . 

Cognitive Dissonance's picture

High praise indeed. Thank you very much.

I seem to bring out the best (and sometimes the worst) in the ZH community. I've been saying since day one as a contributor that the real Gold is found in the comment section. I always learn from those who leave comments under my posts. Always. 

In this case it's clear that many have thought about this subject prior to this essay and I've been very happy to find that there were very few knee jerk answers. The comments for the most part are thoughtful and in depth and some discussed aspects I hadn't considered. The ZH community always schools me well. :>)

Hugh_Jorgan's picture

Nice article CD. I like the frame of mind that you suggest in the introduction. I found myself looking at the question through a different lens and quite probably one that is more valid after reading this piece.

One comment I would offer for the reader is; although it is a possibility, I feel that it is very unlikely that we see a step-change in the socio-political or economic order that will allow everyone to suddenly realize the true nature of the situation. The power base will use the “normalcy bias” and the media to confuse, mitigate, obfuscate, and deceive in ways that will surely shock even the jaded ZHers. I think that this slow grind of events will likely have the unfortunate effect of preventing the police, and national guard from ever finding a clear path to disobey an “unlawful order”. There will always be some factor(s) that make them think twice. This makes it very difficult for law abiding people to ensure that their rights are not violated by the tyranny of the NWO as they attempt to break the back of America and finally globalize us fully.

I hate to even think about it, but I’m becoming more and more convinced that there are few plausible scenarios that don’t involve the secession of multiple states from the Union and/or a 2nd civil war in the United States. God help us all…

ChoppednScrewed's picture

Tptb will not let this economy go free-fall over night. They will control it's decent and have something ready to put in it's place once it does happen. Along the way they will have every day life thin out the herd. These people have been doing this for hundreds, if not thousands, of years as the article states. Before you worry about being fired on by this or that person... I'd worry about be fired upon by rogue gangs and even some morally corrupt neighbors that were dependent on the system for sustinance when the system was good. Worry about eating first. You need energy to sustain the battle that comes. And I can tell you, twelve hundred calories per day is not going to keep you in the battle. This is the daily amount of calories to be handed out in the FEMA camps that don't really exist.

SilverFiend's picture

So the Egyptian military did not fire on the people but the US military will?  I think in the situation described our military would declare martial law.  Anyone foolish enough to stand up to that would be interned indefinitely.  There is no question that president Obama is laying the groundwork for the police state with his signing of the executive order titled "Establishment of the Council of Governors".  These are 10 governors which coincide with the 10 FEMA regions whose job it is to liaise with officials from Northcom, Homeland Security, the National Guard as well as DoD officials from the Pentagon “in order to strengthen further the partnership between the Federal Government and State governments,” according to the executive order.  Obama's campaign slogan should have been "Change you won't believe until it is too late".


After all he promised a "national civilian security service" during the campaign.  If implemented this is a direct challenge to the sovreignty of the states and it lays the groundwork for the end of the US as a republic.  This is the same course that the Nazi's took in pre-war Germany to consolidate power in the office of the Executive.


People speak of false flag operations.  I wonder what false event created by the President will serve as a catalyst to implement his power grab?  After all,  "Never let a good crisis go to waste".

Cathartes Aura's picture

well, bush/cheney had 911 for their false-flag waving Patriot Acts, Homeland Security monoliths, so let your imagination soar.

by the way, these "acts" have virtually nothing to do with "presidents" or sides.


antidisestablishmentarianismishness's picture

I'm far more worried (a smidgen vs nil) about being killed by a drunk driver tonight than I am about being shot by the police 2 decades from now.  There are a bazillion bad scenarios that might or might not come true.  I have friends who've spent the last 40 years warning about shit like this, waiting for a mini-Armageddon.  To me it sometimes looks like they've needlessly wasted their lives but hey, if they get their enjoyment from concocting doomsday scenarios then far be it from me to tell them there are better ways to spend their lives.  After all, there is absolutely no doubt that the sun will burn out some day, so nothing is very important in the big scheme of things. 

forexskin's picture

probably right, nothing of any consequence has happened in the last 40 or 50 years. what a wasteful human quality, that insipid need to predict... you may as well well quit looking both ways before you cross the street, since your safety is so ironclad secure.


and since your head appears to be lower than your feet and still descending, enjoy the sand in your ears and that hugely informative wisp of moral relativism...

Slartibartfast's picture

An excellent read and well thought out but there's one key elemental equation missing:

While it is certainly true that citizens will not protest until the situation becomes dire, it is important to note (with history providing numerous examples) that the 'rip-off' itself is unable to be controlled. In other words, the Greedy can't stop being greedy. There's no 'off' button, and so a threshold is eventually reached where utter collapse, even of the 'rip off' and abuses themselves, cannot be stopped. The 'ponzi' gets played until it can't be played anymore.


Therein lies the ultimate end...Greed and the violence that protects it eventually does everything in, pushes the bounds of credulity only so far, and eventually defeats itself.

SilverBaron's picture

We already have sort of a microcosm--the LA (Rodney King) riots.  I remember there were many neighborhoods that the Police simply wouldn't go into because they were being shot at.  The numbers are too overwhelmingly against the peacekeepers.  If the whole country erupted, the army and police would quickly realize that they had better defect and go defend their own families.  Why would they try to protect others when their own families are at risk?  I think the only thing that could subdue the US gone mad is a massive army the likes of which only the Chinese could produce.  And even that may be impossible.  Even if they managed to invade they would be sniped to death, sort of like the Germans in Russia.  Their best chance would be to surround us and let us kill each other when the food ran out.  Or of course the nuclear option.

Cathartes Aura's picture

those riots were in non-white neighbourhoods - were there any threats to the "wealthier" areas surrounding, you would have seen a very different "reaction" than was shown.

when folk destroy their own nests, it always serves their masters - it's the master's enclaves that deserve targeting, but we all know they are/will be heavily defended.

GoingLoonie's picture

"Someone in the comment section the other day said that since the military is now an all volunteer fighting force, the standard of conduct has been raised and no one in the military would ever fire on their fellow citizens."  With all due respect this is exactly why they would fire without thinking.  They are not citizen soldiers, but mercenaries there for money only.  You need only look at the values protrayed by our military in the recent wars to see this.  It is the citizen soldier, the guy that does not want to be there-that is the check on the other.

Cathartes Aura's picture

They are not citizen soldiers, but mercenaries there for money only.  You need only look at the values protrayed by our military in the recent wars to see this.  It is the citizen soldier, the guy that does not want to be there-that is the check on the other.

thank you.  this point deserves to be made repeatedly - that everyone "serving" these past few decades of war in the ME volunteered to kill, and remain volunteers even after knowing the lies perpetuated by those who use them as cannon fodder.

the whole patriotic meme many were raised on, mom 'n' apple pie 'n' flag pinned lapels, has been outed as a centuries long deliberate lie, and anyone killing people to maintain that lie does not deserve respect or parades at this stage in the game.

I have had conversations with younger military guys lately, and they all seem friendly, amenable - and all assure me that *shrug* it's a paycheck, beats "three hots 'n' a cot" - just the way things are.  I understand their excuses, but they are borne of a lack of integrity, and an unwillingness to think for themselves, or to recognise that they are killing other humans - it's all "sand niggers" etc. - like "gooks" & "krauts" & whatever other labels they made up and bonded over before, while polishing their guns.

once people really understand that a volunteer military is a paid killing machine, and can be turned on whoever their owners tell them to destroy, then proper self-preservation can begin. . .

Boiling Frogs's picture

If there is any merit to a draft, maybe that is it...the citizen-soldier.

Eternal Student's picture

There's an interesting article about the Decline of the Empire in the WSJ today, though it's not exactly stated as such:


The Decline of U.S. Naval Power"

"Sixty ships were commonly underway in America's seaward approaches in 1998, but today there are only 20. We are abdicating our role on the oceans.



Dagny Taggart's picture

Goodness gracious CD, you've gone viral! I googled the title of this article and it is huge.

Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Looks like I touched upon a sore spot in the minds eye. It will be interesting to follow up in a few days and read the responses on the other blogs. The ZH comment section is not exactly a good example of average America. 

cranky-old-geezer's picture

The ZH comment section is not exactly a good example of average America. 

I view that as a good thing.

WaterWings's picture

With Bieber and Gaga videos on YouTube getting 300,000,000+ views it's easy to see why. If they suddenly discovered ZH it would be a Katrina event.

topcallingtroll's picture

actually in my neck of the woods the answer is very clear.

If you came after the police and attacked them they way european and korean rioters do, then you would be shot.  Instantly.  No hesitation.

That is why such foolishness will not happen in my area.  It is very possible the small downtown shopkeepers would shoot the rioters first.  Breaking windows of small mom and pop businesses and throwing molotovs is uncool and would be subject to the death penalty in my area.

That is at least one nice thing about living in smallsville south USA

downrodeo's picture

CD, thank you for your work, as always, and dedication to the cause. Good energy to you, my friend!

Stuck on Zero's picture

Police brutality usually involves very angry officers and a suspect who cannot retaliate.  It is very different when an armed populace holding high-powered hunting rifles on rooftops takes aim at SWAT teams or National Guardsmen.  They will flee like any intelligent human beings.  What we have to worry about the most is the frog in the boiling water approach by tyrannists.  They will use secret police to take on our citizens one by one and terrorize the populace.  Pray for peace.

skipjack's picture

The answer to the question is yes...but just once.  Why ?  Because shooting fellow citizens will not be pleasant.  The families of these shooters will be targeted, and you can count on mass desertion as a result.  You saw it in Tunisia, in Egypt, and even in New Orleans when the cops went rogue and went home.


The real answer is what Egypt did - what Atlas Shrugged is all about - passive aggression.  Refuse to participate.  Don't go to work.  Park your car on a major road along with a few thousand others and leave it there.  Shut it all down, and the elites will see, in very little time, that the empire they think they control is not within their power to keep.


In a country with more lead delivery systems than citizens, the elites who order the shooting of their fellow citizens will not have a long lifespan.  Nor will they keep their power or their "assets" when they are on the run, hunted by those they oppress.


The hippies had it right, after all.  People power...

cranky-old-geezer's picture

The American experiment with limited government / rights / liberty has ended due to lack of interest. 

During the Revolutionary War most people were content to remain British government subjects, and that majority has grown over time, today they're content to be American government subjects. 

Today they speak of rights and liberty while completely ignorant of what those rights are and how to defend that liberty.  They believe it's government's job to do all that, while they sit back watching Dancing With The Stars, paying far higher taxes than their colonist ancestors paid.

Today law enforcement people do the very same thing British troops did in the colonies, enforce draconian laws and extort money for their government bosses.

The presence of police has the very same legal effect as the presence of military troops.  The area is under military rule, otherwise known as martial law.

This is why city councils can enact ordinances that completely violate the state constitution and national Bill of Rights.  The city is under military rule, martial law.

When you enter city limits you're entering a military (municipal, same thing) jurisdiction operating under martial law.  Leave your rights at the city limit sign, pick them up when you leave.

sagelike's picture

Just conduct a “police brutality” YouTube search if you’d like a video lesson on officially sanctioned violence in America. Between the images cruiser dashboard cams have documented and those candid camera videos various citizens have captured via camera phone it’s quite clear police violence isn’t just perpetrated by a few rogue cops on an occasional basis. Instead it appears to be a systemic problem that’s growing worse by the day.

Growing worse by the day? Man you don't know your history. The police in America have always been violent and probably more so in the past, not to mention corrupt. The myth of the good old days when everyone worked hard and was honest is just that: a myth.

It's not so much a systemic problem or some conspiracy as much as it's a 'human' problem and what happens when you give people power.

Chuck Walla's picture

p.p1 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 9.0px 0.0px; line-height: 15.0px; font: 12.0px Verdana}

The point many may miss is that it will be the Progressive Left, the new National Socialists, who will be demanding this violence to "protect the people's movement, the revolution".  Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Fidel all have killed millions and millions to "protect the people and the revolution".  And they will do it here wrapped in the flag of "Social Justice" and few will understand that "Social Justice" is death. The Fabians, Sanger, the "Pro Choice" crowd all want to thin the herd. And who better to thin first than the "reactionaries" who actually believe they own what they build.

BennyBoy's picture

They won't use many bullets but lots of high tech weapons, like one that makes your skin feel like it is burning if you don't leave the area.

And lots of other non-lethal weapons.

Don't forget about the empty big prisons waiting for people expressing their first and second amendment rights.

RingToneDeaf's picture

What a bunch of optimists.

You guys always look on the bright side of life.

Our government is here to serve us, protect us and prepare the next generation.

Where does all this "future is looking bright" come from?

With this age of the electronic funds transfer we are only 6 minutes away from Midnight, on the Doomsday Clock. Suitcase nukes and Atty General Eric Holder are the least of our worries, what about Algores Global Warming/Climate Change/Global Cooling warning?

Wake up! Smell the coffee.

Looking on the bright side of life, whistle now past the graveyard.

JimboJammer's picture

Hillary  Clinton  wants  your  guns....

The  NWO  wants  all  the  guns..

pros's picture

Army Rangers have been posted conspicuously at high traffic locations in NYC, some brandishing M-16's...places like the Port Authority bus terminal.

Hannibal's picture
"Would US Police/Troops Fire Upon US Citizens?"....YES
anvILL's picture

I think American soldiers will not fire upon their citizens unless the soldiers get paid significantly more than average Americans.
It has been, and it will be, about the money.

litoralkey's picture

There won't be a situation entailed as such until there are two consecutive failed grain harvests in the United States.

For that to happen would mean the "State" had already collapsed in several regions of the country.

By the time we get to that point 'the Police" will no longer be separate entities from "the Public" in most areas, either the Police will dissolve, or the Police will enlarge through posses and volunteer forces.

Under either scenario, we would be looking at a collapse in intraState and interState commerce, tolls, checkpoints, and brigands and highwaymen... all operating under the color of local law enforcement.

These TEOTWAWKI threads have been on the internet for 15+ years, very few participants bother to deconstruct the entire supply chain before trying to assume what would still be functioning under these scenarios.

Grain. Water. Energy. Cotton.

No more cheap meat or protein, no more spare parts to fix energy transmission systems or vehicles, no medical supplies, no more new clothing.

All of that would have to be occuring BEFORE we'll see any systematic and widespread massacres perpetrated by organized armed men under color of law.

Under any of these scenarios, you personally do not want to be the victim, you want to be the survivor... read up on appropriate technologies being used in the developing world...


Michael Victory's picture

nice piece.
thumbs up cd.

Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Coming from another contributor that is high praise indeed. Thank you.

GoldbugVariation's picture

Read "Thirteen" by Richard Morgan (also called "Black Man" in the UK)


Recently written speculative fiction (science fiction if you like, though it's only looking ahead a few years), it imagines a world where the USA has split into three, the Pacific Rim states, and the New York-centred "Republic", and the religious South and Mid-West "Jesusland", following a brief civil war instigated by Chinese agents.

williambanzai7's picture

Generated at this point of the thread...

WaterWings's picture


Curious about the scale of the words:

What's the smallest count for a word to be included and how many iterations is the largest?

williambanzai7's picture

The parameter is a cutoff based on number of words. The program sizes the words based on frequency af appearance. I set the cutoff somewhere around 250.