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End Game - Would US Police/Troops Fire Upon US Citizens?
End Game - Would US Police/Troops Fire Upon US Citizens?
By
Cognitive Dissonance
This is the first in an occasional series examining the end of the American Empire and the global shock waves it will produce. Contrary to popular belief I suspect the unraveling will take place over many years, decades even, with sudden plunges and slow partial recoveries aka dead cat bounces. I call this series of examinations “End Game”.
I would wager that the vast majority of people reading this essay have already come to their own conclusion regarding the answer to the title’s query. Certainly you may have several qualifiers and stipulations with which you framed your answer and maybe even a few facts and proofs ready for quick rebuttal if challenged. But my own experience with explosive questions such as this is that there are few who have not already formed an opinion on the matter. If you have not you would be the exception to the rule.
And at this point in the meltdown it would be fair to say there are no correct or incorrect answers to be found, only supposition, assumption and what I expect will be full throated argument to follow in the comment section. May I suggest that whatever answer you’ve come up with wasn’t necessarily arrived at through careful deliberation or contemplation, but rather as an integral part of your overall belief system? And while you may consider all that you believe to be valid and fact based, for all people other than possibly the sociopaths walking among us this is far from the case.
Personally I find that sitting down and writing about a subject forces me to push through all the fuzzy logic and tenuous connections that make up my system of beliefs. For most of us what we think we know or believe is similar to a loosely connected debris field of facts, thoughts, myths, hopes and desires floating on the mind’s surface. Only in this case there really isn’t much mixing or removal of the thought debris by intellectual wave action, just a lifelong rearrangement of the floating deck chairs. When strong emotions are brought into the mix, it’s like a hurricane came through and made an even bigger mess of things.
Much of our belief system is firmly stuck in heavy mud by our late twenties, having been absorbed and adopted during our early years by way of our state mandated education, the popular press, corporate branding initiatives, consensus opinion, deliberately false public myth making and the always present and rarely subtle corporate and governmental propaganda machines. And what we call our mid life crisis is simply that period of time when we begin to call into question many of the basic and fundamental tenets that have guided us to that point. We usually get through this moment of clarity when the bills start piling up and the libido finally begins to fail care of our chemically treated foodstuffs. In practice what we believe is not a coherent jigsaw puzzle held together by reason and “facts”, but rather little islands of hope and belief that would contradict or outright cancel each other like matter and anti-matter if they ever came into contact with one other. I see this all the time not just here in The Hedge (both in the comment section and in various articles from multiple sources) but in newspapers, magazines, blogs, TV and radio; the list really is endless. Selective memory and a convoluted thought process isn’t just the domain of think tanks and the MSM. The alternative press and blogosphere are often just as guilty as well, it being one of the hazards of swimming in the same festering cesspool. Read or listen to any person long enough and you eventually begin to detect errors in logical thought and fact as well as serious conflicts between a person’s articles, books, and lectures; even at times within a specific article or essay. I find this holds true for nearly everyone (including myself) regardless of our denial that it’s happening. Courage is required to challenge our own thinking and weed these discrepancies out. Sadly it’s so much easier to isolate and ignore these inconsistencies then to purge them and face the ugly truths left behind. We hide from ourselves long before we flee the boogie man. The masks we wear in public are crude imitations of the ones we carry within.
Judging from conversations I’ve had with many people from diverse backgrounds the majority of souls seem to come down into one of two camps. For the most part the responses I’ve gathered consist of either “No….but” and “Yes….but” with the clear winner the middle ground of qualified “buts”. When questioned more than superficially and asked to explain or justify their stance, many shamelessly switch back and forth between sides and arguments, proving to me that their opinion is based upon nothing more substantial than wishful thinking and hope. However, most do understand that there are huge variables involved anytime a gun is pointed and fired, regardless of whether the person fired upon is armed or not.
Obviously at this point in the great American unwind no police or military units are patrolling the streets gunning down all who are seen as threatening. And this wasn’t what I was suggesting would happen……at least not unless worse case scenarios are achieved. But the end of the American Empire is approaching, a process that will unravel over decades. And it would be hopelessly naïve or even terminally ignorant to believe that any high ranking “authority” in America has anyone’s interest first other than their own. We can love our slave masters all we want, but they love us only for any remaining productive worth we may offer and no more.
Any remaining belief in high ranking honorable “public servants” should have been thoroughly abandoned after witnessing the outrageous antics of the financial elite and politically connected over the last ten years and particularly the last five. We are all expendable cannon fodder and contrary to any official assurances from the professional propagandists that we are all loved and cared about, we have always been so. Denial of this basic fact is the only real roadblock to a fuller understanding of what’s being done in my name and yours.
False hope inevitably binds us to truly impossible situations and this has consistently been our Achilles Heel, a weakness ruthlessly exploited by the rich and powerful for millennium. The almost universally accepted Abrahamic religious redeemer complex is the ultimate (self) enslavement vehicle. In effect, it forgives those who dish out the punishment and glorifies the suffering of those who are being punished. Talk about your dysfunctional relationship, how are we to live in peace and harmony when the basic tenets of the majority of the world’s religions glorify those who grind our bones to make their bread?
First let’s take a look at who or what would be patrolling the streets under the guise of “keeping the peace”, “finding the terrorists” or whatever excuse the government manufactures in order to justify placing armed uniformed men and women in the population centers of America. And for the purpose of this essay there is the assumption that something has happened or was caused to happen that will be used by the powers that be to deploy police/troops in America under the cover of maintaining law and order.
BTW, we should clearly understand that the real reason the troops will be deployed is to maintain and possibly even consolidate the existing power structure of the powers that be. Or at a minimum to keep the lynch mobs and revenge seekers at bay long enough to make their escape. Is this truly that surprising? After all we have devolved into a banana republic and that’s the way all bananas are eventually peeled.
Initially there would be the local police, supposedly the first line of defense in maintaining the peace. And despite the obvious fact that over the last ten or so years they have been increasingly militarized, the police are for the most part trained to resolve conflict through non-violent means. Or at least that’s the official public myth. Only after you don’t agree with their non violent solution do they pull out their Tasar or Glock. If the first thing you experience is fear when you see flashing lights in the rearview mirror, I would ask you to reconsider the validity of their “non-violent” mission.
Just conduct a “police brutality” YouTube search if you’d like a video lesson on officially sanctioned violence in America. Between the images cruiser dashboard cams have documented and those candid camera videos various citizens have captured via camera phone it’s quite clear police violence isn’t just perpetrated by a few rogue cops on an occasional basis. Instead it appears to be a systemic problem that’s growing worse by the day. A Google word search using the same term will bring back tens of thousands of hits, more than enough to turn your stomach and send the meek and mind controlled scurrying back to the safety of their warm beds. The formerly carefully hidden police state is now coming into full view.
The second line of defense would be the National Guard. If we were talking twenty years ago I might make a disparaging remark about weekend warriors more dangerous to themselves than to others. But eight years of rotations through Iraq and Afghanistan have turned the National Guard into something your father wouldn’t recognize. Without getting too deep into the merits of today’s Guard, better trained has its pluses and minuses as long as we understand what they have now been trained to do.
Then there is the military itself, most likely Army and possibly Special Forces units that will provide the actual boots on the ground. Ever since the creation of NORTHCON on October 1, 2002, supposedly as a direct result of 9/11, the political and financial elite have been overtly preparing for the inevitability of social unrest. Covert preparations extend back decades under cover of any available and plausible excuse in the book.
The military readily admits that it’s not properly trained to execute (no pun intended) domestic police actions and they agree they would be poorly suited to maintain order during any chaotic domestic uprising. And I agree. Home invasions by the military would be just as distasteful for Americans as they are for the Iraqis regardless of what it’s called and under whatever bullshit legal premise it has been authorized.
I can’t help but wonder if the UN Security Council will sanction an invasion of America by a “coalition of the willing” when our time comes around? Don’t laugh because I’m being deadly serious. Do not underestimate the measures the desperate will use to remain in power and don’t assume the rich and powerful are physically located only in the USA. It’s a global game and America has been the home field only for the last 70 or so years. It helps to remember that stock sectors aren’t the only thing that rotates. BTW notice that the eagle below covers all of North America, not just the USA.
On a side note, I still find it amazing how many political/military actions were a direct result of 9/11 yet nobody wants to seriously discuss what really went down that day. Careful because you might not like the stench of whatever it is you dig up. We all complain about political and governmental secrecy, but the vast majority of Americans don’t want to know what’s going on and are happier when they are deceived. The big lie we gratefully participate in is that we are a free and self directed people. It’s so much better to let buried dogs lay undisturbed where they can quickly decompose out of sight and mind.
And let’s not forget the foreign troops that will be invited to conduct joint exercises on American soil. On February 14, 2008 Northcom and the Canada Command agreed to come to each other’s “aid” in the event of a civil crisis such as floods, forest fires, hurricanes, earthquakes and “the effects of a terrorist attack”. While this description comes from the PR propaganda on Northcom’s web site I would love to read the actual document. Naturally Congress wasn’t consulted and were actually sidestepped entirely. It didn’t matter anyway since they were too busy whoring for re-election contributions at the time, a time honored spring, summer, fall and winter Congressional/Corporate pornographic mating ritual.
Of course, the obvious inference here is that if American citizen soldiers are unable or unwilling to “police” their fellow US citizens, we can always call in the Canadians to help us out. Certainly our Canadian brothers and sisters will be subjected to plenty of official propaganda to prepare them for their friendly invasion. I’m sure the psyops division of both countries can come up with plenty of video of homeless Americans swimming across the Saint Lawrence River in search of Canadian food stamps and citizenship….or at least their version of the green card. There are many other “agreements” with NATO and other individual countries that have been less publicized than this one if that’s even remotely possible
Now for the sleeper “police” force very few seem willing to acknowledge or even aware enough of to intelligently discuss, but who will most certainly be invited to the nationwide block party. Naturally I’m talking about private military contractors of the Blackwater/Xe ilk, also known as privately paid (with taxpayer funds of course) and controlled mercenaries of the increasingly privatized and corporatized America. This isn’t new but rather just a recycling of an old tradition of the Federal Government using private entities to provide “security” and “crowd control”. Blackwater is just the latest.
While everyone was watching what Blackwater and others like them were (and still are) doing over in Iraq and Afghanistan (and in many other countries where they are used as embassy and corporate “security” forces) rarely do we hear about the untold billions they’re being paid for services rendered in the good old US of A. Their presence in New Orleans after Katrina was a primer on how things will be done in the future. The almighty buck is their master and it’s the only flag they salute. God bless Uncle Ben.
Last, but most assuredly not least, will be the alphabet soup of government intelligence agencies (domestic and foreign) as well as too numerous to count private “interests” pushing, prodding and provoking wherever they can to influence the outcome of the civil unrest. This will be done for any number of reasons that will most certainly be at cross purposes with the interests of the American people in general and the actual protestors in particular. This will include the FBI, CIA, DIA, Mossad, MI6, BND and dozens of other public, private and foreign “security” and intelligence organizations whose primary purpose will be the protection of the vested interests of powerful people, corporations and countries. Guess where that leaves you and me?
So who will take to the streets? Ultimately this is impossible to say because the situation will be fluid and the variables unknown and in a constant state of flux. To be frank the time to push back was late in 2008 when the globalist’s financial agenda flipped from covert to overt and their plans were finally exposed for all to see who wished to look. But decades of conditioning and propaganda was sufficient to keep the American people trapped within their own minds and unable to muster the courage to begin the process of breaking free. And once TARP was rammed through without significant or sustained resistance, the financial elite knew it was game on and they’d better get it all while the getting was good.
And getting it all is precisely what they’ve done over the last 2 plus years as private debt was systematically bought by the Federal Reserve for 100 cents on each dollar in the name of “saving” the system. Now the next leg down has begun (I am not measuring economic legs by the stock market) and where it stops nobody really knows. But after 3 years of worsening economic conditions, carefully camouflaged by an artificially pumped stock market, more and more American citizens are waking up to the fact that they’ve been ripped off and to some extent they’ve let it happen. Or at the very least they barely said a word other than bitch and complain to each other about the highway robbery.
This is where the really destructive and ultimately self defeating rage will spring from. Obviously it will be acted out as simple righteous indignation over the repeated daylight robberies of the US treasury by public and private entities. But just like a women scorned, there is no anger quite like that enjoyed by the person who suddenly realizes he or she has been conned and the active ingredient was his or her own greed and willing participation. Facing this ugly self revelation, the ego has no choice but to push every emotional button it can find in a desperate attempt to keep the mind from recognizing that it is partially responsible for its own continuing enslavement.
What usually arises from this internal blame shifting and emotional thrashing about is mindless anger directed at the “responsible” con men whose motto is there will always be customers ready to purchase the lies and self deception they’re selling. Since we can’t possibly shoulder any blame for our dance with the devil no matter how small, this anger will eventually be directed towards any handy minority (group or individual, it doesn’t really matter) who happens to be in the wrong place at the right time.
Case in point is the very recent public services union bashing, themselves just another greedy patsy on a long list of willing participants in our own self destruction. Next up is unionized grocery baggers at the local Safeway followed by Meals-On-Wheels delivery drivers. There are no lows that will not be plumed by a population trying to escape responsibility and self examination and this too will be skillfully used against us.
There is one defining characteristic we Americans proudly boast of that is singularly unique in the entire world and it has nothing to do with our standard of living, GDP or total debt. “We The People” not only believed our leader’s lies about American exceptionalism, but we bought into those lies hook, line and sinker. And for several decades the lie worked magnificently thanks to the magic of a widely accepted reserve currency which enabled us to export most of the corrosive effects of our money printing (aka inflation) outside our borders and the military to enforce it when reluctance surfaced…..such as Iraq and Afghanistan to name just two. Good times were had by all, the punch bowl never ran dry and it was all due to our superior abilities. Until now that is.
This is in contrast to the citizens of various Middle East countries (or much of the developing world for that matter) who are always painfully aware of their real state of existence. Or even the Europeans, who have lived through several thousand years of regime changes, invasions and oppression and for the most part have a much better understanding of the magnitude and scope of the official lies and propaganda and how the dance plays out.
Ultimately this didn’t save the Europeans from their own greed and self interested pursuits, but at least they aren’t completely shocked that it’s all coming apart……..once again. The ice cold shower of awakening we Americans are about to experience will be unlike anything any nation has gone through since possibly WW2 Germany beginning around 1942 when civilian centers were deliberately targeted by Allied bombing and the German population began to really feel the sting of their own self deception and mass delusion. While I have no way of knowing exactly how America’s electro shock therapy will play out, it seems self evident it’s coming if for no other reason than because I can hear the electrical generators firing up in the background. Clear!
How this affects the American psyche as well as the various ways it could play out is well beyond the scope of this essay, but suffice to say it will not be pretty. For some of us escape will be had by digging ever deeper into denial. For others, especially those who become caught up in the vicious cycle of endless anger and fits of self pity and rage, the obvious targets of their self destructive outbursts will be any low level authority figure who stands up to them and that all time favorite among those who diligently practice slave mentality, their fellow slaves. Following our passive/aggressive conditioning, many of us will seek to punish those like us before we ever consider lifting a finger against our own masters.
While I expect cooler heads among the aggrieved will attempt to exert an influence over the angry mobs and demonstrators, we must not diminish the ugly truth that there will be plenty of domestic and foreign entities that will see the coming American domestic strife and unrest as an opportunity to foment violent demonstrations and even armed and violent insurrection. The use of infiltrated agents and agent provocateurs to incite violence and disrupt peaceful protest is a well known and time honored technique used by private parties, governments and even the resistance itself (to maintain plausible deniability for example) to further their own particular goals.
The very fact that spontaneous demonstrations are by their nature unorganized and at best loosely controlled works against the intent of the people demonstrating when those who wish to disrupt and discredit are familiar with and comfortable using any means necessary to maintain or regain control over the population. The worst that can happen to any group of people working to unseat an existing power base is their failure to imagine the lengths to which those in power will go to keep it. Those who don’t lie cheat and steal for a living won’t give proper weight and consideration to the tendency of those who do so to continue to do so, let alone their desire to accelerate their methods of operation.
One would think that once the American people begin to wake up to the extent and breadth of official corruption and manipulation that they would at least be temporarily disabused of seeking additional flights of fantasy. Sadly this is not the case at all. The well worn path many newly awakened minds take is to substitute one form of self delusion with another. A conditioned mind that has been shocked into awareness will immediately begin to seek simple answers that help them rationalize away their own self deception and participation. This tendency will be repeatedly and skillfully exploited by foreign and domestic psyops campaigns. Out of the frying pan and into the fire is an apt description for how it works.
For those who may doubt the veracity of that last paragraph, consider the long and extremely painful path you have walked to get to where you are now in your awakening. How many times have you become demoralized and depressed along the way? How often did you backslide into denial with each new and shocking revelation? How many times did you try to bargain with the truth in order to forget only to fail miserably? How much easier was it for you to adapt to and then accept what you desperately wished to deny because the world remained relatively normal during your acclimation period.
Your awakening happened over a minimum of many months and most likely years and as much as you may have wished you could, it’s impossible to forget once you have been exposed to the previously unthinkable. Now consider what your state of mind would be like if all that you’ve experienced was compressed into a few short months or even several weeks. This is what the average Joe is facing at some point in the future. To have your sense of self identity and community ripped from you by the very people you’ve wanted to believe were your protectors is never easy to deal with under the best of circumstances. The easy road to awareness is behind us and it’s all downhill from here.
So while I can’t answer the title’s question for you I can offer my own opinion as to whether or not Americans will be fired upon. The short answer is that of course they will. Why would you think otherwise when US history offers up dozens of examples to choose from. The powers that be are ego maniacs, the elites have hundreds of years of experience controlling the masses and the masses are mostly living their lives in denial. I consider it inevitable that when the uprisings begin and they turn really ugly that those who are paid to protect the powerful and their assets will follow orders and do precisely that.
Hat Tip to William Banzai7 for the image below.
Once again you can’t see this from your own point of view because you most likely won’t be the one holding the riot gear and facing the screaming mobs. While I’m certain some within the police, military and National Guard will follow their heart and refuse to fire or even follow orders if doing so means hurting their fellow citizens, in effect declaring conscientious objector status, they will for the most part be a small minority and will be quickly weeded out of the ranks by the second or third round of protests.
Considering the insanity the police and troops will be facing as well as the economic collapse that threatens them as well, the police/troops will rally around each other and protect their own closed community using whatever means necessary. Throw in the mercenaries, the agent provocateurs, the psyops campaigns, the meddling from the various intelligence agencies and the only question I have is not if but when and how much.
Someone in the comment section the other day said that since the military is now an all volunteer fighting force, the standard of conduct has been raised and no one in the military would ever fire on their fellow citizens. While I would love to believe this, I see it from a different point of view. Those in the military want(ed) to be in the military, thus they were more likely to buy into military groupthink and its attendant mind control and propaganda. Rest assured that long before any uniformed service person (police or military) is asked to confront their fellow citizens they will be subjected to a barrage of intensive conditioning and will be propagandized to the nth degree.
In my opinion, to believe that the various forces arrayed against the protesting public won’t fire on them is to continue to believe in American exceptionalism and more specifically in the desire of the rich and powerful to finally see the error of their ways and thus immediately cease and desist from further exploitation and pillage. If this is the case, if this is what you believe, then all I can say is that you live in a dream world Neo.
On a more positive note I do think something has changed and it’s still not being recognized for what it is and what it might mean. The interim resolutions in Tunisia and Egypt, while undoubtedly unsettled and tenuous at best, did not result in the massive loss of lives many people and governments thought could and would happen. Libya is playing out how many expected Egypt and Tunisia would, with the powers that be fighting to retain power with modern weapons and no mercy.
My question is this, why didn’t Egypt and Tunisia go up in flames? I have some thoughts on why this is the case and I saw WB7 made mention of this change in one of his posts as well. The people who said no more to the powers that be didn’t show up with broken bottles, rocks and other assorted weapons ready to fight. Instead they just said no in as peaceful a manner as they could and they were saying no to the global Ponzi, not just the local branch. Instead of joining a mindless mob, people were praying, talking, playing music and at times even laughing. This is a dramatic sea change in the herd mentality and one that I hope to examine more closely in the future.
03-01-2011
Cognitive Dissonance
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"Find me articles anywhere of the Army or National Guard shooting citizens every day. Does not happen."
First of all, the Army or Natl Guard does not have to fire on citizens every day. They can fire on civilians on occasion and accomplish what they want. The rest of the civilians will see their brethren fallen and will back off. For examples see Kent State, the Bonus Army, the various thugs that were employed as strike breakers and were backed up by Natl Guard, Army and the local cops... examples are legion.
"Even in the Civil War, the Army officers returned to fight for their states and did not do public suppression."
BS... What was Sherman's 'scorched earth policy' across Georgia if not 'public suppression'? Tens of thousands of civilian Southerners died of starvation due to Sherman's and Lincolns policies... even though the South was carrying out a secession that was legal under the Constitution of the US. The South's term for the 'civil war' is 'the northern war of aggression'... for damn good reasons.
You say that you are an ex military officer. If so, you know that your duty is to carry out orders without question. To do differently in a time of war is treason and punishable by death. How many of the officer corps are going to risk death for failing to carry out their superior's orders?
As an officer it is NOT your duty to carry out orders without question. You are given training on what are called "improper orders". You can be prosecuted for war crimes and there is history to support this. All the examples you give of what you claim are public suppression are not. Even Kent State has been admitted as a mistake. Sherman did not round up civilians and put them in prison camps or do wholesale executions. It was the beginning chapter of what became "Total Wars" wherein you have to exhaust the fighting capacity of the nation, including its will. Essentially, it was the same as us bombing Germany and Japan and blockading them. It was also in the context of war not civil protests. I have never read of the tens of thousands starving unless you are referring to seiges like Vicksburg and blockades of ports. Food was short in the South even thought enough was grown because of their own economic and transportation problems. All are wartime phenomena. "War is hell" and "It is good that it is so terrible or we should grow too fond of it." In fact, it is so bad I think we should have a Constitutional amendment that Congress has to vote to declare war before we commit...wait a minute...
Now, if you want to argue that secession is legal under the Constitution and there should have been no war, then these days I would tilt toward agreeing. The states were the prinicples in signing the Articles of Confederartion and ultimately the Constitution. Priniciples can always dissolve the agreement, especially given there is no specific prohibition against it in the Constitution. However, that is a different argument and issue.
To compare the U.S. Army to the armies of third world and totalitarian states is ridiculous. The armies of the fascists, stalinist, etc. are doctrinal armies loyal to individuals or a party no matter the cost. The U.S. Army will do no such thing. If you think there are blemishes in U.S. Army history there are. But that is far different from saying that it is a wholesale force for oppression. I assure you you are badly mistaken...and any government official/s who tried to do that with the Army would find themselves to have badly misjudged the situation. Would there be bad apples in the Army or even misjudgements and errors? Probably. We live in an imperfect world. That's why I am a libertarian and believe we should not give other flawed often immoral people power over ourselves. However, the march of modern history is decidedly to the left and that we need infinite amounts of regulations and central management and redistribution. It always end badly. In Greece they riot and burn not for some higher principle of liberty but because they want more free stuff. Should the police suppress that...especially if they are burning your car and your store? Is that State oppression? Well, I can answer that both ways, yes and no depending how deep you go. I can argue that the guy with the firebomb is actually your oppressor, not the cop that tries to knock it out of his hand.
Note that in more advanced nations, even like fascist Germany and the USSR, the Army did not do the real public oppression. It always comes from internal police forces specially formed, trained and indoctrinated to that end. That is the thing to watch for in the U.S. When healthcare reform comes with about 16000 (!!!) new IRS agents, you'd better worry. That is the subtle creeping oppression and management of your life by central authorities that has more meaning. The Army will not intervene. The IRS will take perfectly legal actions against you, voted on by 51% of your legal representatives to deprive you of liberty and property because you missed something in the 40k pages of tax law or don't want the government insurance.
While I think this article is not so great I like the deeper question it poses which is really, "Could you get Americans to suppress and oppress their fellow citizens?" The answer is a resounding, "Yes!" if you do it correctly, slowly and on the surface legally. That is done every day as we redistribute income, property, political favors and drive up debt that will oppress even our great grandchildren. It is done by guys in suits with legal authority called "civil servants"! They are not civil and serve only the State, not you. The next question is what happens if you resist? What if you resist physically rather than at the ballot? Then we theorize here and we give our imperfect noncontextual opinions. However, I still assert that it is not the Army you need to fear here in America. Focus on your legislators who keep writing laws and rules without end that are "good" for you.
cops do not military. see above remark
oath keepers.
+++ bravo. spread the word on oath-keepers. (google it, folks)
+1
A very motivated and under reported on group.
PLEASE watch this video.....Gun Confiscation will happen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm5PC7z79-8
In the state of Illinois, unless specifically exempted by statute, any Illinois resident who acquires or possesses firearm or firearm ammunition within the State must have in their possession a valid Firearm Owner’s Identification (FOID) card issued in his or her name. In the past, the Illinois State Police, the agency responsible for determining who gets FOID cards, kept cardholder information confidential.
That might no longer be the case.
Yesterday, the Illinois Attorney General, Lisa Madigan, daughter of Illinois Speaker of the House Michael Madigan (D-Chicago,) determined that the names of those possessing FOID cards, and hence, most likely firearms and/or ammunition, must be released to the public.
From the Associated Press this evening:
Apparently, this all began when the Associated Press filed a Freedom of Information Act request back in September 2010 for the names of each FOID cardholder in the state and the expiration date of each card. Why? That wasn’t indicated in article. However, the AP piece did note:
According to the Associated Press, the Illinois State Police and pro-gun groups argued to the Illinois Attorney General that publicizing the names of those authorized by the state to own firearms and/or ammunition puts them and others at risk. It is commonly-known that guns are highly-sought after by burglars. Inversely, they claimed that public knowledge of individuals who don’t have permission from the state to have firearms makes them a target as well.
The Attorney General’s response? According to the Associated Press piece:
Boy, Illinois FOID cardholders must be going bonkers right now.
Unfortunately for Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan, there’s something else that may very well be “speculative and conclusory”:
Future political support from the more than 1.3 million Illinois residents that possess FOID cards.
Source:
“Atty. general: Illinois should release FOID card list.” Associated Press. 1 Mar. 2011. (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chibrknews-atty-genera...). 1 Mar. 2011.
FMCDH
"From My Cold Dead Hand"
at any DUI cehck point the police CAN TAKE YOUR DNA, at airports they are doing the same and its constitutional and courts have rule in favor of it extending it as the same as pictures, finger prints, breath aand blood tests. this is fact and reality, any police contact can and will take your DNA if they are so equipped, as all airports are in the process of becoming. all stored on a giant database for your "security". Congratulations. Tell you parents and siblings and loved ones see if they give a flying fuck. i doubt it.
this was the end game
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Act_of_1947
From my own research, I also concluded the National Security Act of 1947 was the beginning of the end of America. I started my research when I read the full text of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, then went back past Corporate Personhood and Posse Comitatus.
The National Security Act of 1947 was the seed from which Cheney's "inherent power" and "unitary executive" philosophies grew, because once the president was allowed to keep anything from Congress and Supreme Court, the branches were no longer co-equal and America set on the path to join Rome in history.
good sign, i know waco and randy weaver, but these are different times, walker over reached as bad as barry did, walker just succeeded in giving barry his second term ! asshole!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM0Lqi3S_mc
how many times do i have to say it on here , there is no difference between red/blue repug/dem its the same neo con neolib cabal in "black face" as glen ford black agenda editor says and mumia abu jamal says.
http://www.prisonradio.org/2-9-11TheSetUpOrTheSellOut.html
you shallow reactive fucks watch these links before you talk hitler and call me a racist.
indeed, end game cd, synchronicity, minute 3:32
http://uhurunews.com/video/play?resource_name=beyond-obama-and-the-black...
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkatimetobreaksilence.htm
obama is by his own accord, one of bushes boys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKLVPp7epC8
who was cia direktor when barry was at service international?
blowback is a bitch, that's for all you game theory quants , where is cheeky to back me up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW6LuDgVEKA
agreed cd you've come a long way excellent effort thx
I was going to say:
"Sure, they have before."
But I think I like your answer better.
On the other hand, this is america we are talking about here, if they start that shit they had better be prepared for the blowback. This isn't Lybia we are talking about here, there are a shit load of firearms in civilian hands.
I think it was CD who said in a previous piece, that more than a battalions worth of guns are sold in just California every week - or something like that.
Escalation is a bitch.
Lisa Madigan in IL is attacking exactly that shitload in her state. Hope she finds herself attacked by the courts in return. The law proposing FOID info should not be released is stalled in IL legislature, probably blocked by IL Dems.
When you fire the first shot at cops or the military you had better have said your prayers already.
The amount of fire power brought to bear on you will be astounding... even to a gun nut.
If you have not spent time in the military in a war zone you have no idea what a civilian faces daily, even an unarmed civilian.
An armed civilian is automatically deemed an enemy combatant and is fair game... and will be killed with overwhelming fire power... if they are not fortunate enough to escape the barrage aimed at them.
...and, I can damn well guarantee you that the civilian that escapes the barrage will never again fire on the police or military forces arrayed against them.
There are way too many gun owners that have watched way too many movies of fantasy heros going up against overwhelming odds and winning the day. In a word... bullshit.
When the troops/mercs in Iraq saw their buddies burned, quartered and left to age from a bridge in the summer sun, do you think that left an impression in their heads?
If the people were against the military, there is no way the military would win. Think Vietnam, Afghanistan. In France the police don't enter the muslim neighborhoods. Starvation in the Warsaw ghetto, sure but that was against a minority. If the majority here were dispossessed and responded with guerilla tactics the military would desert.
I might fall into the category of gun nut here and I completely agree with Snidley. I would be F***ed if I even thought of firing on the police or military. I may get one to five of them but when those armor piercing rounds start coming through the walls... its goodnight. My guns are for self defense against what I see as the next coming criminal class of people about to be formed - those who can't buy food and necessities and want to take it from me. I can defend against them.
On a second note here in Illinois they are proposing legislation to put into public light all the FOID Card holders for the press to publish whether or not they actually own firearms. Eventually I may just have my firearms confiscated from me and will have to resort to Rambo style bow and arrow skills. +1 Bear Archery!!!
This is not junk you dimwit, it's a warning about a serious attack on gun-ownership rights. Madigan may believe her attempt will come without consequences but it won't. Blankman's awake, you're asleep.
"I might fall into the category of gun nut here and I completely agree with Snidley. I would be F***ed if I even thought of firing on the police or military. I may get one to five of them but when those armor piercing rounds start coming through the walls... its goodnight."
Yeah, so? Holing up in a fixed and highly indefensible structure is not exactly the smartest thing to do. If one is going to resist, one does it somewhere else (ideally where your target lives or works), and otherwise remains well below the enemy's radar screen. You don't blab about it, you don't walk around with guns hanging from your belt, you don't bad-mouth TPTB - you become Joe or Jane Average, until it is time to act, and then you act with stealth. That's no guarantee of survival or success, mind you, but it significantly increases the odds vs. shooting at armor-clad, trained soldiers or SWAT officers from a wood-frame house.
Why someone junked you is beyond me. Maybe it was the Rambo comment. Other than that, I couldn't agree with you more.
Fellow Illini.
I guess some people are legends in their own minds. Either that or someone just did not like the fact that I own guns. Either way. Mat Lauer can suck it.
Agent P
You up in Rahm land area.
Fortunately not. Central.
Dated a girl in college who was from around there . Amazed me that her father owned thousand of acres of land for farming. We would ride a 4 wheeler around her property, it was incredible to me to see how much land several thousand acres is.
By the way great article CD.
True. When one takes on a superior force head-on, what is the likelihood of success? Near zero, as you correctly point out.
10-4. This country was founded on asymmetric battle tactics. Not by taking on an overwhelming force head on.
"True. When one takes on a superior force head-on, what is the likelihood of success? Near zero, as you correctly point out."
So then why would anyone with an ounce of sense do so? Why are we even discussing such a foolish course of action? All one needs to know is that you take on the enemy where you're strongest and he's weakest. People have been doing that for thousands of years - and that's the very reason we don't drink tea at 4 PM every day.
Touche! Nice little slam -- we don't drink tea at 4pm.
How's that war in Afghanistan going. Low tech vs Hi tech.
Using insurgent tactics does work against superior forces.
You can't face them head on, it's called hit and run like hell.
There's a good book about about eastern vs western style warfare
and how low tech, under armed groups on their home turf
can prevail against a superior force. The title is a little corny
"The Tigers Way" by H. John Poole.
"and, I can damn well guarantee you that the civilian that escapes the barrage will never again fire on the police or military forces arrayed against them."
...............................
true very true..modern police and military cannot be taken head on..
the real way is to wait for them on the street and when they are alone or in small groups do your thing. then walk away..enough of this and they will fear to walk in public..they will be forced to live in guarded compounds..and thus they will loose control of the majority of the country.
for this tactic to work the public must be on your side. for the public to be on your side they must have seen the tyranny of the the gov played out on fellow citizens..
let us hope this does not come to America.
"the real way is to wait for them on the street and when they are alone or in small groups do your thing. then walk away..enough of this and they will fear to walk in public.."
We could only hope. However, constant satellite surveillance of urban centers, complete city-wide CCTV coverage, roaming naked-scan vans and who knows, soon-to-come micro-drone swarms and phased microphones array coverage will efficiently prevent IED planters/suicide bombers/snipers from doing their thing - or at most, give them 1 opportunity to hit before the chain of events is retroactively tracked and the threat neutralized.
I fully expect that the global scientific dictatorship, if we ever let things get that far (sadly looks likely), will be the most brutal, merciless AND rugged regime that humanity has ever endured.
I hope that you realize that a technological and material disparity is not a new thing - and that it doesn't prevent the weaker (on the surface) party from winning (albeit at high cost).
A perfect example of that is in WW2 in what was Yugoslavia. Josif Tito (later Marshall Tito, who ran the country with an iron first for over 30 years and successfully defied the Soviets) was the leader of the largest Yugoslav partisan army. He was asked near the beginning of the war how his troops, armed only with antique bolt-action rifles could hope to successfully take on the occupying Germans, armed with their new Panzers. His response was an absolute classic: "When the Germans get out of their new Panzers to take a piss, my troops will shoot them with their antique rifles."
What he said was only one tactical response - what he implied was, "how stupid do you think I am, saying that I would take on the Wehrmacht at its strongest point?" Of course the strategic significance of what he said is that he intended to play on his strengths and the enemy's weaknesses. Remember, the MIND is the strongest weapon - read your Sun Tzu if you doubt it.
Note that those manning computer screens for various types of equipment for your supposedly all-powerful dictatorship have to go to and from work, and they have to eat, sleep and go to the bathroom somewhere and sometime - and in all of those places they are as vulnerable as any other person. You don't think that someone with this knowledge will be an aggrieved party at some point, and pass the info to the resistance? You don't think that the resistance will hack into Big Brother's computers and royally screw things up for BB as well as getting key intelligence? Heck, even without inside information, how is it that a bunch of sheep-fucking, half-toothless, ignorant 7th Century types armed with 19th Century bolt-action rifles took on and inflicted enormous casualties against the Red Army for a decade - a Red Army not exactly well-known for its humanitarian tactics, and not in the least bit burdened by operating on its home territory (not that such bothered them much in WW2, but still they didn't have that burden in Afghanistan)? How are they taking us on now - we, with our satellites, GPS, laser and sat-guided bombs, night-vision devices, ultra-modern tanks and fighter-bombers, and with listening posts and supercomputers galore to hear and decipher what they're saying? It is because of 2 things: numbers and determination.
We, the American public, surely have numbers in our favor - we are the most heavily-armed society on Earth (and thank God for that). All we need is determination, and that will come when TPTB go too far. What event, or combination of events, will set people off? I don't know, but I do know that the self-imolation of a frustrated would-be street vendor in Tunisia started the mess over in the Mideast a couple of months ago, and we don't know how far the effects of that simple act will go. Two dictators have been deposed, and a third (who has killed thousands to stay in power) is on his way out - and all of those in countries where the private ownership of arms is either prohibited or severely curtailed. No such thing applies here, where the police, army and various private forces combined are outnumbered by nearly two orders of magnitude. The American people are most definitely a sleeping giant - TPTB had better be careful, lest they wake him.
Tex: Was thinkin' yesterday about Goliad, the Alamo, San Jacinto. Maybe TX is the place for all patriots, soon if not right now.
I guess you are not familiar with our military involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan. Do you really think that IED"s are only Muslim tactics? Yes the firepower is overwhelming when properly applied and most civilians have no stomach for combat; but it doesn't take many. The US has many concealment advantages and plenty of urban rubble from which to fight.
There will be resistance
I think so too. Many old GBs and SFs around and they're armed, loaded, locked, and alert.
Would South Carolina troops fire on damn Yankees? Is he kidding?
Ruby Ridge
Waco
...and the po-po is taking casualties too. It's headlined in local crime reports only....unless it is really spectacular.
Thank God. I remember the seventies when cops respected and feared folks.... now they're paramilitary outfits full of adrenaline junkies playing schoolyard bully with poor or uninfluential citizens. The majority of cops I've unfortunately met are a bunch of rednecks thinking they're Walker Tuhhhxas Ranger .... jesus, it wasn't that long ago that cops didn't even carry weapons in England. That's one of the raison d'etre of the phony, genocidal and ethnic cleansing "Drug War"; turn us all into animals with no concept of the rights of man and the legacy of the Enlightenment.
Fookin shabby.
Erm, I think the upshot of the enlightenment ideal of liberty included the notion that one should not be able to alienate his or herself from liberty. Drug addiction does that. No one addicted to addictive drugs is free, ergo our drug laws are for the most part there in there in the service of liberty. I'd rather they focus on heroine, meth, narcotics and whatnot, and with greater ferocity, and let go a little bit on pot. OR, if we are going to let anyone sell addictive drugs to anyone, then at least stop taxing me to pay for the destruction they wreak on themselves and everyone else. I.E. ZERO welfare, and a positive discrimination toward "clean" folks when they're found to have conflicts with the addicted.
Our "War on Drugs" is a "War on Personal Freedom". Period.
If you're really interested in liberating people from the effects of addictive narcotics, you'd stop using them as fodder for the Prison Industrial Complex and get them treatment.
How many addicts are shooting up behind bars right now?
How many (ab)users end up on welfare because they went to prison instead of rehab?
How many people are dealing drugs because it's the job they can get and it pays better than welfare?
You're getting taxed because of our stance on drugs...its much more expensive to jail people for non-violent crime than treat the core problem.
“... get them treatment.” Why do we assume there is something wrong with them.
Pertaining to Substance Prohibition: There can be no guilty mind … to one who is willing ...
… this (Volenti Non Fit Injuria) logic seems to be used to clear the conscious of those who send “volunteers” to their death in stupid wars … to bad it doesn’t extend to other personal freedoms … kind-of hypocritical if you asked me … not unlike, Cognitive Dissonance psychology.
The 'war on drugs' is an absolutely failure, in any rational light that one cares to examine it in...
In many countries around the world one can enter a pharmacy and purchase any drug in the store that the individual deems necessary for him/her self. Those countries do not have the big 'drug problem' that exists in America, nor are they prosecuting a 'war on drugs'. Why not, a rational person would ask.
Go ask yourself the 'why not rational question' and get back to me on your conclusions.
You can add the War on Poverty, the War on Hunger, the War on Terrorism, the War on Whatthefuckever to the list.
The Drug War is UTTERLY anti-liberty. The central tenet: YOU DON'T OWN YOUR BODY, WE DO.
To convince someone to stop taking drugs is generally a good thing. To use violence toward that end is thuggery.
The drug war is smoke to cover up the involvement of TPTB. Small and unaffiliated outfits are targeted, while the main suppliers and profiteers go unmolested.
With lots and lots of drug money laudered by Wall Street and invested in the stock and bond market. In the late 1990s the head of the Naz made a weekend trip to SA to drum up business.
Yep and yep (to the OP). According to "Crossing the Rubicon" author Michael Ruppert, the stock market would collapse without all of the laundered drug money flowing through it. One of the more interesting connections he made was actually about the drug trade and AIG – remember those assholes? Apparently in its prime AIG had the largest private air fleet in the world (almost 500 planes), and operated as a cut-out for the U.S. intelligence community throughout the world (the implication being that they were primary participants in global drug trade and money laundering operations)...
The connections between the F.I.R.E. industries, the intelligence community, the military-industrial complex, and the global drug trade run deep.
+++
it's a friggin precedent/momentum thing:
- one guy gives a poor stranger a can of soup. nice.
- a family see this and says "us too".
- a community likes the idea and makes a private food bank. great.
- the food bank gets grants from the county... hmmm.
- the county/state starts a welfare system and we're all fucking doomed to feed everyone... fuck.
Where's that critical line of choice go between "one guy" and "county/state"? Nobody sees it. ever. it just morphs from one to the other, because it sounds good, becomes policy, and suddenly we're involutarily paying taxes to a cause we may *not* like, or more likely be unable to *afford*... and then somehow we're fighting over whether that program should be cut or saved...
and then bozos like the guy above declare boldly, in rich academic terms, that keeping all lazy bastards fed is a god-given right and pro-liberty! un-f'n-believable.
so, ... if you libs want your wunder-gift programs, make yourselves a nice little group that doesn't include those of us that don't f-n want to sign up, and pay for your wunder-gifts with your wunder-fuking own money. get it?
churches do this. you can leave your church.
governments don't. my government will shoot me if i become uncooperative...