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End Game - Would US Police/Troops Fire Upon US Citizens?
End Game - Would US Police/Troops Fire Upon US Citizens?
By
Cognitive Dissonance
This is the first in an occasional series examining the end of the American Empire and the global shock waves it will produce. Contrary to popular belief I suspect the unraveling will take place over many years, decades even, with sudden plunges and slow partial recoveries aka dead cat bounces. I call this series of examinations “End Game”.
I would wager that the vast majority of people reading this essay have already come to their own conclusion regarding the answer to the title’s query. Certainly you may have several qualifiers and stipulations with which you framed your answer and maybe even a few facts and proofs ready for quick rebuttal if challenged. But my own experience with explosive questions such as this is that there are few who have not already formed an opinion on the matter. If you have not you would be the exception to the rule.
And at this point in the meltdown it would be fair to say there are no correct or incorrect answers to be found, only supposition, assumption and what I expect will be full throated argument to follow in the comment section. May I suggest that whatever answer you’ve come up with wasn’t necessarily arrived at through careful deliberation or contemplation, but rather as an integral part of your overall belief system? And while you may consider all that you believe to be valid and fact based, for all people other than possibly the sociopaths walking among us this is far from the case.
Personally I find that sitting down and writing about a subject forces me to push through all the fuzzy logic and tenuous connections that make up my system of beliefs. For most of us what we think we know or believe is similar to a loosely connected debris field of facts, thoughts, myths, hopes and desires floating on the mind’s surface. Only in this case there really isn’t much mixing or removal of the thought debris by intellectual wave action, just a lifelong rearrangement of the floating deck chairs. When strong emotions are brought into the mix, it’s like a hurricane came through and made an even bigger mess of things.
Much of our belief system is firmly stuck in heavy mud by our late twenties, having been absorbed and adopted during our early years by way of our state mandated education, the popular press, corporate branding initiatives, consensus opinion, deliberately false public myth making and the always present and rarely subtle corporate and governmental propaganda machines. And what we call our mid life crisis is simply that period of time when we begin to call into question many of the basic and fundamental tenets that have guided us to that point. We usually get through this moment of clarity when the bills start piling up and the libido finally begins to fail care of our chemically treated foodstuffs. In practice what we believe is not a coherent jigsaw puzzle held together by reason and “facts”, but rather little islands of hope and belief that would contradict or outright cancel each other like matter and anti-matter if they ever came into contact with one other. I see this all the time not just here in The Hedge (both in the comment section and in various articles from multiple sources) but in newspapers, magazines, blogs, TV and radio; the list really is endless. Selective memory and a convoluted thought process isn’t just the domain of think tanks and the MSM. The alternative press and blogosphere are often just as guilty as well, it being one of the hazards of swimming in the same festering cesspool. Read or listen to any person long enough and you eventually begin to detect errors in logical thought and fact as well as serious conflicts between a person’s articles, books, and lectures; even at times within a specific article or essay. I find this holds true for nearly everyone (including myself) regardless of our denial that it’s happening. Courage is required to challenge our own thinking and weed these discrepancies out. Sadly it’s so much easier to isolate and ignore these inconsistencies then to purge them and face the ugly truths left behind. We hide from ourselves long before we flee the boogie man. The masks we wear in public are crude imitations of the ones we carry within.
Judging from conversations I’ve had with many people from diverse backgrounds the majority of souls seem to come down into one of two camps. For the most part the responses I’ve gathered consist of either “No….but” and “Yes….but” with the clear winner the middle ground of qualified “buts”. When questioned more than superficially and asked to explain or justify their stance, many shamelessly switch back and forth between sides and arguments, proving to me that their opinion is based upon nothing more substantial than wishful thinking and hope. However, most do understand that there are huge variables involved anytime a gun is pointed and fired, regardless of whether the person fired upon is armed or not.
Obviously at this point in the great American unwind no police or military units are patrolling the streets gunning down all who are seen as threatening. And this wasn’t what I was suggesting would happen……at least not unless worse case scenarios are achieved. But the end of the American Empire is approaching, a process that will unravel over decades. And it would be hopelessly naïve or even terminally ignorant to believe that any high ranking “authority” in America has anyone’s interest first other than their own. We can love our slave masters all we want, but they love us only for any remaining productive worth we may offer and no more.
Any remaining belief in high ranking honorable “public servants” should have been thoroughly abandoned after witnessing the outrageous antics of the financial elite and politically connected over the last ten years and particularly the last five. We are all expendable cannon fodder and contrary to any official assurances from the professional propagandists that we are all loved and cared about, we have always been so. Denial of this basic fact is the only real roadblock to a fuller understanding of what’s being done in my name and yours.
False hope inevitably binds us to truly impossible situations and this has consistently been our Achilles Heel, a weakness ruthlessly exploited by the rich and powerful for millennium. The almost universally accepted Abrahamic religious redeemer complex is the ultimate (self) enslavement vehicle. In effect, it forgives those who dish out the punishment and glorifies the suffering of those who are being punished. Talk about your dysfunctional relationship, how are we to live in peace and harmony when the basic tenets of the majority of the world’s religions glorify those who grind our bones to make their bread?
First let’s take a look at who or what would be patrolling the streets under the guise of “keeping the peace”, “finding the terrorists” or whatever excuse the government manufactures in order to justify placing armed uniformed men and women in the population centers of America. And for the purpose of this essay there is the assumption that something has happened or was caused to happen that will be used by the powers that be to deploy police/troops in America under the cover of maintaining law and order.
BTW, we should clearly understand that the real reason the troops will be deployed is to maintain and possibly even consolidate the existing power structure of the powers that be. Or at a minimum to keep the lynch mobs and revenge seekers at bay long enough to make their escape. Is this truly that surprising? After all we have devolved into a banana republic and that’s the way all bananas are eventually peeled.
Initially there would be the local police, supposedly the first line of defense in maintaining the peace. And despite the obvious fact that over the last ten or so years they have been increasingly militarized, the police are for the most part trained to resolve conflict through non-violent means. Or at least that’s the official public myth. Only after you don’t agree with their non violent solution do they pull out their Tasar or Glock. If the first thing you experience is fear when you see flashing lights in the rearview mirror, I would ask you to reconsider the validity of their “non-violent” mission.
Just conduct a “police brutality” YouTube search if you’d like a video lesson on officially sanctioned violence in America. Between the images cruiser dashboard cams have documented and those candid camera videos various citizens have captured via camera phone it’s quite clear police violence isn’t just perpetrated by a few rogue cops on an occasional basis. Instead it appears to be a systemic problem that’s growing worse by the day. A Google word search using the same term will bring back tens of thousands of hits, more than enough to turn your stomach and send the meek and mind controlled scurrying back to the safety of their warm beds. The formerly carefully hidden police state is now coming into full view.
The second line of defense would be the National Guard. If we were talking twenty years ago I might make a disparaging remark about weekend warriors more dangerous to themselves than to others. But eight years of rotations through Iraq and Afghanistan have turned the National Guard into something your father wouldn’t recognize. Without getting too deep into the merits of today’s Guard, better trained has its pluses and minuses as long as we understand what they have now been trained to do.
Then there is the military itself, most likely Army and possibly Special Forces units that will provide the actual boots on the ground. Ever since the creation of NORTHCON on October 1, 2002, supposedly as a direct result of 9/11, the political and financial elite have been overtly preparing for the inevitability of social unrest. Covert preparations extend back decades under cover of any available and plausible excuse in the book.
The military readily admits that it’s not properly trained to execute (no pun intended) domestic police actions and they agree they would be poorly suited to maintain order during any chaotic domestic uprising. And I agree. Home invasions by the military would be just as distasteful for Americans as they are for the Iraqis regardless of what it’s called and under whatever bullshit legal premise it has been authorized.
I can’t help but wonder if the UN Security Council will sanction an invasion of America by a “coalition of the willing” when our time comes around? Don’t laugh because I’m being deadly serious. Do not underestimate the measures the desperate will use to remain in power and don’t assume the rich and powerful are physically located only in the USA. It’s a global game and America has been the home field only for the last 70 or so years. It helps to remember that stock sectors aren’t the only thing that rotates. BTW notice that the eagle below covers all of North America, not just the USA.
On a side note, I still find it amazing how many political/military actions were a direct result of 9/11 yet nobody wants to seriously discuss what really went down that day. Careful because you might not like the stench of whatever it is you dig up. We all complain about political and governmental secrecy, but the vast majority of Americans don’t want to know what’s going on and are happier when they are deceived. The big lie we gratefully participate in is that we are a free and self directed people. It’s so much better to let buried dogs lay undisturbed where they can quickly decompose out of sight and mind.
And let’s not forget the foreign troops that will be invited to conduct joint exercises on American soil. On February 14, 2008 Northcom and the Canada Command agreed to come to each other’s “aid” in the event of a civil crisis such as floods, forest fires, hurricanes, earthquakes and “the effects of a terrorist attack”. While this description comes from the PR propaganda on Northcom’s web site I would love to read the actual document. Naturally Congress wasn’t consulted and were actually sidestepped entirely. It didn’t matter anyway since they were too busy whoring for re-election contributions at the time, a time honored spring, summer, fall and winter Congressional/Corporate pornographic mating ritual.
Of course, the obvious inference here is that if American citizen soldiers are unable or unwilling to “police” their fellow US citizens, we can always call in the Canadians to help us out. Certainly our Canadian brothers and sisters will be subjected to plenty of official propaganda to prepare them for their friendly invasion. I’m sure the psyops division of both countries can come up with plenty of video of homeless Americans swimming across the Saint Lawrence River in search of Canadian food stamps and citizenship….or at least their version of the green card. There are many other “agreements” with NATO and other individual countries that have been less publicized than this one if that’s even remotely possible
Now for the sleeper “police” force very few seem willing to acknowledge or even aware enough of to intelligently discuss, but who will most certainly be invited to the nationwide block party. Naturally I’m talking about private military contractors of the Blackwater/Xe ilk, also known as privately paid (with taxpayer funds of course) and controlled mercenaries of the increasingly privatized and corporatized America. This isn’t new but rather just a recycling of an old tradition of the Federal Government using private entities to provide “security” and “crowd control”. Blackwater is just the latest.
While everyone was watching what Blackwater and others like them were (and still are) doing over in Iraq and Afghanistan (and in many other countries where they are used as embassy and corporate “security” forces) rarely do we hear about the untold billions they’re being paid for services rendered in the good old US of A. Their presence in New Orleans after Katrina was a primer on how things will be done in the future. The almighty buck is their master and it’s the only flag they salute. God bless Uncle Ben.
Last, but most assuredly not least, will be the alphabet soup of government intelligence agencies (domestic and foreign) as well as too numerous to count private “interests” pushing, prodding and provoking wherever they can to influence the outcome of the civil unrest. This will be done for any number of reasons that will most certainly be at cross purposes with the interests of the American people in general and the actual protestors in particular. This will include the FBI, CIA, DIA, Mossad, MI6, BND and dozens of other public, private and foreign “security” and intelligence organizations whose primary purpose will be the protection of the vested interests of powerful people, corporations and countries. Guess where that leaves you and me?
So who will take to the streets? Ultimately this is impossible to say because the situation will be fluid and the variables unknown and in a constant state of flux. To be frank the time to push back was late in 2008 when the globalist’s financial agenda flipped from covert to overt and their plans were finally exposed for all to see who wished to look. But decades of conditioning and propaganda was sufficient to keep the American people trapped within their own minds and unable to muster the courage to begin the process of breaking free. And once TARP was rammed through without significant or sustained resistance, the financial elite knew it was game on and they’d better get it all while the getting was good.
And getting it all is precisely what they’ve done over the last 2 plus years as private debt was systematically bought by the Federal Reserve for 100 cents on each dollar in the name of “saving” the system. Now the next leg down has begun (I am not measuring economic legs by the stock market) and where it stops nobody really knows. But after 3 years of worsening economic conditions, carefully camouflaged by an artificially pumped stock market, more and more American citizens are waking up to the fact that they’ve been ripped off and to some extent they’ve let it happen. Or at the very least they barely said a word other than bitch and complain to each other about the highway robbery.
This is where the really destructive and ultimately self defeating rage will spring from. Obviously it will be acted out as simple righteous indignation over the repeated daylight robberies of the US treasury by public and private entities. But just like a women scorned, there is no anger quite like that enjoyed by the person who suddenly realizes he or she has been conned and the active ingredient was his or her own greed and willing participation. Facing this ugly self revelation, the ego has no choice but to push every emotional button it can find in a desperate attempt to keep the mind from recognizing that it is partially responsible for its own continuing enslavement.
What usually arises from this internal blame shifting and emotional thrashing about is mindless anger directed at the “responsible” con men whose motto is there will always be customers ready to purchase the lies and self deception they’re selling. Since we can’t possibly shoulder any blame for our dance with the devil no matter how small, this anger will eventually be directed towards any handy minority (group or individual, it doesn’t really matter) who happens to be in the wrong place at the right time.
Case in point is the very recent public services union bashing, themselves just another greedy patsy on a long list of willing participants in our own self destruction. Next up is unionized grocery baggers at the local Safeway followed by Meals-On-Wheels delivery drivers. There are no lows that will not be plumed by a population trying to escape responsibility and self examination and this too will be skillfully used against us.
There is one defining characteristic we Americans proudly boast of that is singularly unique in the entire world and it has nothing to do with our standard of living, GDP or total debt. “We The People” not only believed our leader’s lies about American exceptionalism, but we bought into those lies hook, line and sinker. And for several decades the lie worked magnificently thanks to the magic of a widely accepted reserve currency which enabled us to export most of the corrosive effects of our money printing (aka inflation) outside our borders and the military to enforce it when reluctance surfaced…..such as Iraq and Afghanistan to name just two. Good times were had by all, the punch bowl never ran dry and it was all due to our superior abilities. Until now that is.
This is in contrast to the citizens of various Middle East countries (or much of the developing world for that matter) who are always painfully aware of their real state of existence. Or even the Europeans, who have lived through several thousand years of regime changes, invasions and oppression and for the most part have a much better understanding of the magnitude and scope of the official lies and propaganda and how the dance plays out.
Ultimately this didn’t save the Europeans from their own greed and self interested pursuits, but at least they aren’t completely shocked that it’s all coming apart……..once again. The ice cold shower of awakening we Americans are about to experience will be unlike anything any nation has gone through since possibly WW2 Germany beginning around 1942 when civilian centers were deliberately targeted by Allied bombing and the German population began to really feel the sting of their own self deception and mass delusion. While I have no way of knowing exactly how America’s electro shock therapy will play out, it seems self evident it’s coming if for no other reason than because I can hear the electrical generators firing up in the background. Clear!
How this affects the American psyche as well as the various ways it could play out is well beyond the scope of this essay, but suffice to say it will not be pretty. For some of us escape will be had by digging ever deeper into denial. For others, especially those who become caught up in the vicious cycle of endless anger and fits of self pity and rage, the obvious targets of their self destructive outbursts will be any low level authority figure who stands up to them and that all time favorite among those who diligently practice slave mentality, their fellow slaves. Following our passive/aggressive conditioning, many of us will seek to punish those like us before we ever consider lifting a finger against our own masters.
While I expect cooler heads among the aggrieved will attempt to exert an influence over the angry mobs and demonstrators, we must not diminish the ugly truth that there will be plenty of domestic and foreign entities that will see the coming American domestic strife and unrest as an opportunity to foment violent demonstrations and even armed and violent insurrection. The use of infiltrated agents and agent provocateurs to incite violence and disrupt peaceful protest is a well known and time honored technique used by private parties, governments and even the resistance itself (to maintain plausible deniability for example) to further their own particular goals.
The very fact that spontaneous demonstrations are by their nature unorganized and at best loosely controlled works against the intent of the people demonstrating when those who wish to disrupt and discredit are familiar with and comfortable using any means necessary to maintain or regain control over the population. The worst that can happen to any group of people working to unseat an existing power base is their failure to imagine the lengths to which those in power will go to keep it. Those who don’t lie cheat and steal for a living won’t give proper weight and consideration to the tendency of those who do so to continue to do so, let alone their desire to accelerate their methods of operation.
One would think that once the American people begin to wake up to the extent and breadth of official corruption and manipulation that they would at least be temporarily disabused of seeking additional flights of fantasy. Sadly this is not the case at all. The well worn path many newly awakened minds take is to substitute one form of self delusion with another. A conditioned mind that has been shocked into awareness will immediately begin to seek simple answers that help them rationalize away their own self deception and participation. This tendency will be repeatedly and skillfully exploited by foreign and domestic psyops campaigns. Out of the frying pan and into the fire is an apt description for how it works.
For those who may doubt the veracity of that last paragraph, consider the long and extremely painful path you have walked to get to where you are now in your awakening. How many times have you become demoralized and depressed along the way? How often did you backslide into denial with each new and shocking revelation? How many times did you try to bargain with the truth in order to forget only to fail miserably? How much easier was it for you to adapt to and then accept what you desperately wished to deny because the world remained relatively normal during your acclimation period.
Your awakening happened over a minimum of many months and most likely years and as much as you may have wished you could, it’s impossible to forget once you have been exposed to the previously unthinkable. Now consider what your state of mind would be like if all that you’ve experienced was compressed into a few short months or even several weeks. This is what the average Joe is facing at some point in the future. To have your sense of self identity and community ripped from you by the very people you’ve wanted to believe were your protectors is never easy to deal with under the best of circumstances. The easy road to awareness is behind us and it’s all downhill from here.
So while I can’t answer the title’s question for you I can offer my own opinion as to whether or not Americans will be fired upon. The short answer is that of course they will. Why would you think otherwise when US history offers up dozens of examples to choose from. The powers that be are ego maniacs, the elites have hundreds of years of experience controlling the masses and the masses are mostly living their lives in denial. I consider it inevitable that when the uprisings begin and they turn really ugly that those who are paid to protect the powerful and their assets will follow orders and do precisely that.
Hat Tip to William Banzai7 for the image below.
Once again you can’t see this from your own point of view because you most likely won’t be the one holding the riot gear and facing the screaming mobs. While I’m certain some within the police, military and National Guard will follow their heart and refuse to fire or even follow orders if doing so means hurting their fellow citizens, in effect declaring conscientious objector status, they will for the most part be a small minority and will be quickly weeded out of the ranks by the second or third round of protests.
Considering the insanity the police and troops will be facing as well as the economic collapse that threatens them as well, the police/troops will rally around each other and protect their own closed community using whatever means necessary. Throw in the mercenaries, the agent provocateurs, the psyops campaigns, the meddling from the various intelligence agencies and the only question I have is not if but when and how much.
Someone in the comment section the other day said that since the military is now an all volunteer fighting force, the standard of conduct has been raised and no one in the military would ever fire on their fellow citizens. While I would love to believe this, I see it from a different point of view. Those in the military want(ed) to be in the military, thus they were more likely to buy into military groupthink and its attendant mind control and propaganda. Rest assured that long before any uniformed service person (police or military) is asked to confront their fellow citizens they will be subjected to a barrage of intensive conditioning and will be propagandized to the nth degree.
In my opinion, to believe that the various forces arrayed against the protesting public won’t fire on them is to continue to believe in American exceptionalism and more specifically in the desire of the rich and powerful to finally see the error of their ways and thus immediately cease and desist from further exploitation and pillage. If this is the case, if this is what you believe, then all I can say is that you live in a dream world Neo.
On a more positive note I do think something has changed and it’s still not being recognized for what it is and what it might mean. The interim resolutions in Tunisia and Egypt, while undoubtedly unsettled and tenuous at best, did not result in the massive loss of lives many people and governments thought could and would happen. Libya is playing out how many expected Egypt and Tunisia would, with the powers that be fighting to retain power with modern weapons and no mercy.
My question is this, why didn’t Egypt and Tunisia go up in flames? I have some thoughts on why this is the case and I saw WB7 made mention of this change in one of his posts as well. The people who said no more to the powers that be didn’t show up with broken bottles, rocks and other assorted weapons ready to fight. Instead they just said no in as peaceful a manner as they could and they were saying no to the global Ponzi, not just the local branch. Instead of joining a mindless mob, people were praying, talking, playing music and at times even laughing. This is a dramatic sea change in the herd mentality and one that I hope to examine more closely in the future.
03-01-2011
Cognitive Dissonance
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as does the military industrial complex, no matter what the propaganda says to contrary, just look at the current adventures, and tell the truth.
Of course US troops will fire on American citizens! History is full of examples of this. Look at the Bonus Army of the Great Depression, or Sherman's March to the Sea (of note my first ancestor to America was in 1913, so a little late if you want to put me on a side).
The troops/police will be fed a line about domestic extremists, secessionists, anarchists, Muslim extremists, etc. They will be told that it's only to restore order, and they are doing America a great service in her hour of need and keeping things stable. They will be informed that if the system collapse so to does their way of life. I expect the majority to fall in line with the group think and party line.
I've known a lot of guys in the service (blue collar upbringing) and when I ask this question almost all say that yes most troops would fire on Americans. Granted they all tell me they wouldn't but they think their comrades would.
As is so well pointed out it's not like this is the oligarch's first rodeo. They have done this before so they know a trick or to. To think that Americans in their blind, doped up stupor will succeed where so many have fallen is hubris in the extreme. Americans are made up of all the peoples of the world, and share their weaknesses.
Your mention of Sherman makes my blood boil, and my great aunt traced our family all the way back to before the American Revolution.
Wish we had won that war, but looks like we have another opportunity to set it right!
Taking your Sherman example a little further, I would remind our readers that it was he who was sent out West after the Civil War to eliminate the first Americans.
Libya coming to a town near you. The only difference is you think you have live in a democracy.
What do you think they'll use to scope their sights? You
'Would US Police/Troops Fire Upon US Citizens?"
Yes
http://ragingdebate.com/government-and-politics/government-employee-shoot-the-people
Asst AG calling for the protesters in WI to be shot.
For merely exercising 1st Amendment.
This should be an enlightening thread.
I've long maintained the opinion that the lack of food will be the catalyst for violent demonstrations (food riots). Once Americans begin suffering malnutrition and starvation on a broad scale, then acts of extreme violence will become more common, by both average citizens and armed authorities alike. Any significant supplies of food or food production facilities will require heavy guard and the liberal use of deadly force.
They will cut off water and food to get the sheep in line.
I found these great pre-fabbed solar stills, cheap, hopefully we never need it - Aqua Cone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9fepEyGRx8
"they" already put industrial waste in the "community" water piped into homes, and virtually all fast fud/supermarket fodder has GMO ingredients, no laws to disclose on food labels - seriously, this "get the sheep in line" is decades old now. . .
ponder how easy to put something "new" in the water, like, um, lithium? or anything else they'd like to experiment with. . .
you named it. Much more effective than armed agression is minimum food & water, utmost limited fuel & electricity, internet and cellphones off. This creates massive swoon and fear but still enough dependence - so people do WHATEVER the ones in power want.
Yes. In the USA, Monsanto & Exxon control most of the food. A lot of the "problems" with rioting hungry people will be taken care of by lost harvests due to superweeds (not the smoking kind) destroying the monocultures, increasingly scarcities in fertilliser and seed stock, a disappearance of fertile soil useful for anything but Roundup Ready® crop, and increasingly unknown (thusfar) pathogens, byproducts of gene sequence combination and (unintended?) recombination. These will wreak havoc in the coming years on plant and animal alike. It'll thin out the herd, and drive those that survive, mortally afraid, under the protective wings of government.
The moment this subject is mentioned, inmediately normalcy bias kicks in. But this is the real weakness of dissenting individuals: We all have to eat.
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/newPathogenInRoundupReadyGMCrops.php
consequences of Monsanto/FDA corporate/"govt" revolving door. . .
Yes. That scared the shit out of me, even when it could be expected. It requires a whole new direction for the agriculture industry. It's as if someone placed a huge put, betting against the human race. Very strange! It also means the fundamentals of it are non-existent. But as pointed out on ZH, fundamentals don't matter much anymore. They'll try to gloss it over, and confuse the issue, as usual, then the pharmaceutic industry will come up with a "cure" (symptome relief). ka-ching :-D
On topic of the police, here's a video you have to see, it's about the police trying out new non-lethal methods of "containing a protest march", including "embedded journalism". Very enlightening. Also check out the "pain-ray", a microwave stuck on a Hummer, plane or building, that can be pointed at a target a mile off. Tried and tested in Iraq. There's a couple of other technical inventions for the same purpose. So that's where this part of industry has been going. It's been very profitable. Of course when citizens pick up weapons, the "non lethal" approach will be off the table. In Egypt, or anywhere else in the Middle-East, governments didn't have this sophisticated "crowd control" instrument, so they had to resort to lethal methods.
You can skip to 15 minutes in, I think the slow buildup is telling how protest marches develop (this is a peaceful one from 2003) and how the authorities build up their "case" and gradually violent response. Of course they honed their techniques as well now. It's not Kent State anymore.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7557174318773212602#
they ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT SHOOT YOU...if you are in a wheelchair or are deaf or handcuffed and laying on your stomach in the bart station....oh wait...i guess they will shoot your ass.....and they WILL NOT shoot your dog!
They will probably shoot your dog if the dog is attacking them. Get a Basset Hound... they only attack, and bark at, other dogs.
Decades? Maybe, but the whole TSA/DHS thing is to condition us now, not years from now, using the convenient terrorist straw man (usually a muslim student that has been entrapped by the FBI).
Many "experts" were saying even before the Great Depression that the British Empire would end in a few years. And yet their political influence, while greatly diminished, is still much stronger even today than their size, population or GDP would seem to warrant.
There are many different ways to measure "Empire". And the wild card with the US is our nuclear weapons. I would order up extra popcorn and butter if I were you. :>)
First, I'm hoping my new avatar shows up. I thank Bob for sharing his previously (with a color change). I'm sure that someone else has the Anarchy symbol, so I don't imagine I'm original, but I thought the symbol was a logical progression of my thoughts on some of these matters.
I have enjoyed very much learning from all of the great contributors/commenters on ZH. It's nice to see many of the Greats show up for your discussion CD. As always, a good read and thought-provoking.
The question of timing and degree(s) and diversion(s) looms large for me. I do not believe the fiat system, in a compounding interest regime (h/t b9k9, sean7k, trav777), has much longer to last. A year, two at the most. Soon, the producers of real goods (oil, food) will no longer accept cotton and ink printings for their productive assets. But - the banksters and Ponzi-masters will not go quietly in the night. Their power - for the moment - depends upon fiat, the ability to create from thin air and charge interest. They will not willingly implement a PM-based money immediately. It might be a fallback (after they have confiscated SLV/GLD, etc.), but not their first choice. There's a little bit more robbing to do, and when you are a sociopath, enough is never enough.
There is no economic recovery. There will not be an economic recovery. Nothing has been fixed. They were hoping for a miracle, and at the very least some time to prepare (h/t b9k9). They got the time, but not the recovery. The monetary end-game is approaching.
Timing? There is not one government, per se, that will benefit from a PM-based monetary regime. Governments benefit from fiat - and its counter-feiting, etc., etc. China is bleeding the US through the ME wars, but China is also printing money to maintain the Yuan/dollar peg. So, the timing will have to come from the moment when the PTB start to quibble/quabble, like the ME kings not wanting to sell oil for $100/barrel anymore.
Degree(s)? As you discuss CD, the British empire was able to make it to today. But at what cost to the populace? WWII? The Battle for Britain? What will be the cost for the US to make it? How many lives? What sort of living standard?
Diversion(s)? This is my greater fear. The PTB will not go quietly. What will they do to herd the people? Will they dirty bomb a city? Will they launch a 3rd proxy war? A larger regional one? WWIII? They have more moves to make.
And then how do we fight the powers? Can't fight head on. I've removed myself from the Ponzi. I no longer contribute except the bare minimum. Battles of attrition can be won.
I do believe some significant moves are coming soon. I don't know specifically what they will be, but I do know they will try to support the Ponzi for now, and further subjugate the truth. That's my fear - a pre-emptive and larger scale action to divert attention from the failings of the monetary system...
Sorry for the rambles, cheers, and Bartender another round!
Not on my watch...we are Oath Keepers
I would hope that more police and military join www.oathkeepers.org. The police and military are SUPPOSED to to defend our Constitution and our liberty above all else. Will they?
I would urge all police and military that I know (and I hope that those you all know as well) to understand the oath keepers and join their organization.
Below are their Ten Commandments, if you will:
1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.
2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people
3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.
4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.
5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.
6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.
7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.
8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control."
9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.
10. We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.
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+1 Oathkeepers
I have a friend working in Border that has OKer ideas in principle. He was intrigued when I introduced him to OKers proper, so I'm interested to see if he's gotten connected.
OKers are keeping a low profile, avoiding things like open carry rallys, I think mainly because that will let them grow without attracting friction from above.
Speechless... so I should click that link at alt-market... Who knew?
...
Yes, I did have a quick answer for the question, and of course the US police and military will fire on US citizens. Brainwashing already allows our troops to kill and maim totallly innocent people, all they need is a reason to spread or preserve "freedom".
The good news is that it won't go on for long, just like we're seeing in the ME where military personel are starting to side with the people. Besides, the US military is across the world fighting wars for terrorist Israel, so we might not see too much of them in the future.
Dude, God gave Israel to the Jews. Says so in the Bible. Get over it.
the only holy land has oil under it.. get over it
Yeah, but look who it's populated with.
Highly inbred islamotards. Yeah, cousin marriage is standard practice over there since at least a millenium, giving the IQ results you'd expect. In Israel you have the most educated population on the planet. It's almost Asimov's Foundation amongst a sea of vile measurelessly deep animal stupidity.
Lol, so its back to the chosen race as in olden days. Zion, now house of example to the rest of the world. Something that amazes me in this line of reasoning is the insult to history that people pay like they were in outer space floating in antimatter : The greatest preliminary enacting of the Final Solution was portrayed by the concentration of those to be sacrificed in the Warsaw and Cracow ghettos of conquered "barbarian, non Aryen, non intelligent people's territory", a bit like today's Palestinian/Lebanon turf. Once the death camps were running those ghettos then fed what would truly be the 'greatest day of infamy' in the life of western civilization. Having then 'patented' the concept of 'genocide' in eternal concrete, the sacred defenders of 'Shoah' have now, in their zionist pipe dream, concocted precisely the same precondition to another enactment of a similar mega-catastrophy, first in Sabra /Shatila, now in Gaza. It is therefore ironic that these self appointed, 'super intelligent' and chosen race scions, with the blessing of new Caesar since donkey's years, now pay the most perverted kind of tribute to their own history. Gaza= Warsaw ghetto. We know what follows when the going gets tough and the ghetto natives start to revolt...'Ausweis'...is not so far away! Brave new, old style world!
Whom the Gods wish to destroy they first drive mad...into exquisite, narcistic hubris.
Stop educating the people or you will be labeled and ridiculed.
labeled : history buff..... I assume label. Even at risk of being pedant. ))
ridiculed : illogical fluff....So show me the way. ))
Kent State University and Faber College were the sites of two massacres in the 1970s. At Kent State, part time citizen soldiers called the National Guard opened fire on Viet Nam War protesters. At Faber, it was ROTC students shooting at out of control fraternity kids.
rarely mentioned or remembered is the city of Philadelphia's action on the MOVE organisation in 1985:
http://www.eco-action.org/dt/20yrs.html
it will happen "again" because it can, because people are still divided and largely ignorant, and because the hierarchy is inevitably, overwhelmingly, armed to the teeth and encouraged to kill. . . the whole point of amrkn "culture" is to measure self against other, and punish anything that gets in ego's way.
one of your best CogDiss, worth passing on, and I will. thanks!
Then there was Watts.
"Men, don't think for a minute that you're shooting Americans. You'll be shooting terrorists and communists. They hate freedom!"
Did the various armies in North Africa shoot their own citizens? Did Lincoln's army shoot New Yorkers when they rebelled at the draft?
Stupid question. The soldiers will shoot whoever they're told to shoot or they'll face a firing squad themselves.
While packing to get out of the USSA for good 40 years ago ... played this over and over...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI7-m919ynU&feature=related
1932:
The Great Depression hits even those with what they thought to be good, secure jobs.
Three thousand half-starved autoworkers, together with their families and union organizers, march on Hitler supporter and Jew hater Henry Ford's Rouge Plant near Dearborn, Michigan.
The marchers' goal is to present a list of demands to Ford.
Dearborn police block the route and attack the marchers with tear gas. The marchers fight back with rocks and frozen mud. Near the Ford plant itself, demonstrators are attacked with fire hoses and gunfire.
Five marchers are killed by machine gun and pistol fire and nineteen are wounded.
Inevitably, the marchers are labelled by the ever-compliant mass media as filthy commie rats rather than as starving workers. Aside from owning every politician in Dearborn, Ford has the police force well under control.
Dearborn police officers are required to swear an oath to uphold and protect the Ford Motor Company.
Of course, no one is charged in the killings.
................................................
My Father was a WWII Marine in the South Pacific, after being part of that 1932 massarce. He was a strong UAW man and worked at Ford's Dearborn Rouge Plant all the rest of his life.
As he shook my hand ...
"Go!"... was all he said.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLkmbLoaORU&feature=related
For those talking about Kent State....You are the quintessential example of a Baby Boomer. I was born in 1973. I am a Generation Xer. Parents divorced at a young age, and dad left to go surfing and scuba diving in California. Much like your whole generation did.
Well, I don't blame any of you, but it sure would have been nice if you had fixed this country back then when you had the momentum building. We are all completely screwed now, but with a little bit of hunger and firepower, I'm sure America will turn out just fine!
Let's not forget the use of force on our WWI veterans when they marched on D.C. for their war bonus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkmo4ygPTjc
Ain't it kind of funny how those pseudo-'History' channel videos kinda leave out a few of the more interesting details.
1932:
47,000 protesters, including 17,000 veterans of World War One, hard hit by the Depression, march on Washington, DC, to press for early payment of U.S. Army Service Certificates.
The protesters, known as the Bonus Army, set up camps in the hope that their presence will convince the Senate to pass the bill for early payment of the Certificates, a measure which had already passed the House.
President Herbert Hoover decides that we can't be havin' no democratic protests in Washington, DC and orders police to expel the veterans.
Police shoot and kill two veterans. Hoover then orders the Army in to drive the veterans from the Capitol.
The U.S. Army's 12th Infantry Regiment, commanded by the heroic General Douglas MacArthur with the heroic Dwight D. Eisenhower at his side, and the 3rd Cavalry Regiment, complete with six battle tanks, commanded by the heroic Major George S. Patton, form in Pennsylvania Avenue as thousands of U.S. government employees line the street to watch the show.
The Bonus Army, mistakenly assuming that the military action is a display in their honor, cheer the troops. Patton then orders his cavalry to charge the veterans.
Following the cavalry charge, infantry with fixed bayonets using chemical warfare agents invade the Bonus Army camps, expelling veterans and their families who flee across the Anacostia River. At this point, Hoover orders the Army assault against the veterans stopped. General MacArthur, however, has other ideas. According to him, the Bonus March, like anything else we want to suppress these days in the land of the free, is a plot by the filthy Commie rats to overthrow the freedom-loving government of the U.S. MacArthur duly attacks the Bonus Army, murdering two veterans, murdering two babies by asphyxiation with poison gas, and injuring hundreds of men, women and children with gunfire, bayonets and poison gas.The Bonus March is duly crushed and, naturally, no one is charged with murder.
General MacArthur is not court martialled for launching a murderous attack on American veterans in direct violation of an order from the president.
Ya... just got to love U'all's heros and just over look the little omitted details.
Meanwhile... WTF?
The United States' most highly decorated Marine, Major General Smedley Butler, talks informally after a speech and tells of Italian dictator Benito Mussolini hitting and killing a child with his car, then simply driving on and telling his passenger, "Never look back."
Mussolini is so admired by the powers-that-be in the U.S. that Butler, the most popular military hero in the country, is arrested and court martialed by Henry Stimson, Secretary of War.
Butler is ordered to retract his statement.
He refuses and is forced to retire from the Marines.
The Rockeller-connected Stimson has, of course, a soft, soft spot for all dictators, having himself been dictator of the U.S.-occupied Philippines under the Coolidge regime.
But... that's another story.
Great comment! Have you a link?
"War is a Racket" author Smedly Butler.
From Wikipedia:
In addition to his military achievements, he ... was an outspoken critic of U.S. military adventurism. In his 1935 book War is a Racket, he described the workings of the military-industrial complex and, after retiring from service, became a popular speaker at meetings organized by veterans, pacifists and church groups in the 1930s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler
Edit
Also: might want to visit Wiki and address the difference if you have the link:
n 1931, he publicly recounted gossip about Benito Mussolini in which the dictator allegedly struck a child with his automobile in a hit-and-run accident. The Italian government protested and President Hoover, who strongly disliked Butler, forced Secretary of the Navy Charles Francis Adams III to court-martial him. Butler became the first general officer to be placed under arrest since the Civil War. He apologized to Secretary Adams and the court martial was canceled with only a reprimand.
If one wants a real history of the US simply pick up a copy of Howard Zinn's 'A People's History Of The United States'...
Still the best selling history text ever written about the US...and that is saying a lot since Zinn's History is not taught or authorized in any educational institution that I am aware of.
I've seen this book floating out there from time to time, but never looked closely. I just ordered it on the strength of your recommendation. Thanks.
don't know shit about the smedley story...
but wiki is owned. danger danger danger
Wiki... ???
Icky...!!!
Let's all play Dickeys!
Incidental Minutiae... Minor Google Mush!
He said!... She said!
21st century blogger-wisdom rung out of 80 year old Yellow Rags?
The Facts that Fit... were archived!
Truth... not so much.
So called history classes leave out lots of ugliness in our early 20th century politics. It is a sad state of affairs where Glenn Beck style infotainers have to wave their hands about the excesses of statism/progressivism back to its roots.
The admiration among intellectuals of the time for Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini is forgotten. Later on we had shameless Mao worship and of course El Che tshirts. We still have actors and luminaries in awe of Castro and Chavez.
The only enemy the left harps on about now is the nazis, the supposed "extreme right"...who were progressivist, statist, socialists, with the only special twist being their nationalist positions. But nevemind, any enemy of statism is a nazi. Tea Partiers. People against the nationalisation of the doctor client relationship. People against the undermining of our republic by abusive public sector unions. People for enforcement of our existing immigration laws. Nazis. At least they could mix it up a little. Call us Pol Potties or Maoists or Stalinists from time to time.
You started out sounding like an intelligent person and then devolved into a Faux News-bot.
If you think Obamacare, illegal "aliens", and frekking unions are the most urgent priorities for this country and our children's future....why waste my breath.
What DP was exposing is the naked truth long suppressed in order to manipulate the population (on their way to the abbatoir) by the fascists and you're gonna bitch about Obamacare.... get a clue!
zaknik... he is a troll... stop feeding the trolls please... thanks
Far from Troll. Agree with him or disagree, he brings up valid concerns and points that are acknowledged by about half of Americans. Zaknik accused him of claiming that these were the biggest problems we face. He did no such thing.
To accuse him of trolling is ridiculous. You simply disagree with him. Fair enough, debate his points on merit. Who's the troll?
Let's see, central government takeover of one sixth of the economy via extremely heavy handed regulations is not fascist????
States becoming bankrupt thanks to obligatory public employee unions voting big government candidates year in and year out isn't a problem? Are you planning on buying any muni debt soon? State government debt look attractive to you? Are the results of our school systems and police forces getting better or worse in absolute terms? relative to dollars spent?
Border states aren't suffering mightily from the influx of outright illegal and anchor baby immigrants sucking up social services, fucking up schools so much that english is a second language in some, and generally threatening to bring Mexico's remarkable civic instincts and values en masse inside our borders?