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End Game - Would US Police/Troops Fire Upon US Citizens?
End Game - Would US Police/Troops Fire Upon US Citizens?
By
Cognitive Dissonance
This is the first in an occasional series examining the end of the American Empire and the global shock waves it will produce. Contrary to popular belief I suspect the unraveling will take place over many years, decades even, with sudden plunges and slow partial recoveries aka dead cat bounces. I call this series of examinations “End Game”.
I would wager that the vast majority of people reading this essay have already come to their own conclusion regarding the answer to the title’s query. Certainly you may have several qualifiers and stipulations with which you framed your answer and maybe even a few facts and proofs ready for quick rebuttal if challenged. But my own experience with explosive questions such as this is that there are few who have not already formed an opinion on the matter. If you have not you would be the exception to the rule.
And at this point in the meltdown it would be fair to say there are no correct or incorrect answers to be found, only supposition, assumption and what I expect will be full throated argument to follow in the comment section. May I suggest that whatever answer you’ve come up with wasn’t necessarily arrived at through careful deliberation or contemplation, but rather as an integral part of your overall belief system? And while you may consider all that you believe to be valid and fact based, for all people other than possibly the sociopaths walking among us this is far from the case.
Personally I find that sitting down and writing about a subject forces me to push through all the fuzzy logic and tenuous connections that make up my system of beliefs. For most of us what we think we know or believe is similar to a loosely connected debris field of facts, thoughts, myths, hopes and desires floating on the mind’s surface. Only in this case there really isn’t much mixing or removal of the thought debris by intellectual wave action, just a lifelong rearrangement of the floating deck chairs. When strong emotions are brought into the mix, it’s like a hurricane came through and made an even bigger mess of things.
Much of our belief system is firmly stuck in heavy mud by our late twenties, having been absorbed and adopted during our early years by way of our state mandated education, the popular press, corporate branding initiatives, consensus opinion, deliberately false public myth making and the always present and rarely subtle corporate and governmental propaganda machines. And what we call our mid life crisis is simply that period of time when we begin to call into question many of the basic and fundamental tenets that have guided us to that point. We usually get through this moment of clarity when the bills start piling up and the libido finally begins to fail care of our chemically treated foodstuffs. In practice what we believe is not a coherent jigsaw puzzle held together by reason and “facts”, but rather little islands of hope and belief that would contradict or outright cancel each other like matter and anti-matter if they ever came into contact with one other. I see this all the time not just here in The Hedge (both in the comment section and in various articles from multiple sources) but in newspapers, magazines, blogs, TV and radio; the list really is endless. Selective memory and a convoluted thought process isn’t just the domain of think tanks and the MSM. The alternative press and blogosphere are often just as guilty as well, it being one of the hazards of swimming in the same festering cesspool. Read or listen to any person long enough and you eventually begin to detect errors in logical thought and fact as well as serious conflicts between a person’s articles, books, and lectures; even at times within a specific article or essay. I find this holds true for nearly everyone (including myself) regardless of our denial that it’s happening. Courage is required to challenge our own thinking and weed these discrepancies out. Sadly it’s so much easier to isolate and ignore these inconsistencies then to purge them and face the ugly truths left behind. We hide from ourselves long before we flee the boogie man. The masks we wear in public are crude imitations of the ones we carry within.
Judging from conversations I’ve had with many people from diverse backgrounds the majority of souls seem to come down into one of two camps. For the most part the responses I’ve gathered consist of either “No….but” and “Yes….but” with the clear winner the middle ground of qualified “buts”. When questioned more than superficially and asked to explain or justify their stance, many shamelessly switch back and forth between sides and arguments, proving to me that their opinion is based upon nothing more substantial than wishful thinking and hope. However, most do understand that there are huge variables involved anytime a gun is pointed and fired, regardless of whether the person fired upon is armed or not.
Obviously at this point in the great American unwind no police or military units are patrolling the streets gunning down all who are seen as threatening. And this wasn’t what I was suggesting would happen……at least not unless worse case scenarios are achieved. But the end of the American Empire is approaching, a process that will unravel over decades. And it would be hopelessly naïve or even terminally ignorant to believe that any high ranking “authority” in America has anyone’s interest first other than their own. We can love our slave masters all we want, but they love us only for any remaining productive worth we may offer and no more.
Any remaining belief in high ranking honorable “public servants” should have been thoroughly abandoned after witnessing the outrageous antics of the financial elite and politically connected over the last ten years and particularly the last five. We are all expendable cannon fodder and contrary to any official assurances from the professional propagandists that we are all loved and cared about, we have always been so. Denial of this basic fact is the only real roadblock to a fuller understanding of what’s being done in my name and yours.
False hope inevitably binds us to truly impossible situations and this has consistently been our Achilles Heel, a weakness ruthlessly exploited by the rich and powerful for millennium. The almost universally accepted Abrahamic religious redeemer complex is the ultimate (self) enslavement vehicle. In effect, it forgives those who dish out the punishment and glorifies the suffering of those who are being punished. Talk about your dysfunctional relationship, how are we to live in peace and harmony when the basic tenets of the majority of the world’s religions glorify those who grind our bones to make their bread?
First let’s take a look at who or what would be patrolling the streets under the guise of “keeping the peace”, “finding the terrorists” or whatever excuse the government manufactures in order to justify placing armed uniformed men and women in the population centers of America. And for the purpose of this essay there is the assumption that something has happened or was caused to happen that will be used by the powers that be to deploy police/troops in America under the cover of maintaining law and order.
BTW, we should clearly understand that the real reason the troops will be deployed is to maintain and possibly even consolidate the existing power structure of the powers that be. Or at a minimum to keep the lynch mobs and revenge seekers at bay long enough to make their escape. Is this truly that surprising? After all we have devolved into a banana republic and that’s the way all bananas are eventually peeled.
Initially there would be the local police, supposedly the first line of defense in maintaining the peace. And despite the obvious fact that over the last ten or so years they have been increasingly militarized, the police are for the most part trained to resolve conflict through non-violent means. Or at least that’s the official public myth. Only after you don’t agree with their non violent solution do they pull out their Tasar or Glock. If the first thing you experience is fear when you see flashing lights in the rearview mirror, I would ask you to reconsider the validity of their “non-violent” mission.
Just conduct a “police brutality” YouTube search if you’d like a video lesson on officially sanctioned violence in America. Between the images cruiser dashboard cams have documented and those candid camera videos various citizens have captured via camera phone it’s quite clear police violence isn’t just perpetrated by a few rogue cops on an occasional basis. Instead it appears to be a systemic problem that’s growing worse by the day. A Google word search using the same term will bring back tens of thousands of hits, more than enough to turn your stomach and send the meek and mind controlled scurrying back to the safety of their warm beds. The formerly carefully hidden police state is now coming into full view.
The second line of defense would be the National Guard. If we were talking twenty years ago I might make a disparaging remark about weekend warriors more dangerous to themselves than to others. But eight years of rotations through Iraq and Afghanistan have turned the National Guard into something your father wouldn’t recognize. Without getting too deep into the merits of today’s Guard, better trained has its pluses and minuses as long as we understand what they have now been trained to do.
Then there is the military itself, most likely Army and possibly Special Forces units that will provide the actual boots on the ground. Ever since the creation of NORTHCON on October 1, 2002, supposedly as a direct result of 9/11, the political and financial elite have been overtly preparing for the inevitability of social unrest. Covert preparations extend back decades under cover of any available and plausible excuse in the book.
The military readily admits that it’s not properly trained to execute (no pun intended) domestic police actions and they agree they would be poorly suited to maintain order during any chaotic domestic uprising. And I agree. Home invasions by the military would be just as distasteful for Americans as they are for the Iraqis regardless of what it’s called and under whatever bullshit legal premise it has been authorized.
I can’t help but wonder if the UN Security Council will sanction an invasion of America by a “coalition of the willing” when our time comes around? Don’t laugh because I’m being deadly serious. Do not underestimate the measures the desperate will use to remain in power and don’t assume the rich and powerful are physically located only in the USA. It’s a global game and America has been the home field only for the last 70 or so years. It helps to remember that stock sectors aren’t the only thing that rotates. BTW notice that the eagle below covers all of North America, not just the USA.
On a side note, I still find it amazing how many political/military actions were a direct result of 9/11 yet nobody wants to seriously discuss what really went down that day. Careful because you might not like the stench of whatever it is you dig up. We all complain about political and governmental secrecy, but the vast majority of Americans don’t want to know what’s going on and are happier when they are deceived. The big lie we gratefully participate in is that we are a free and self directed people. It’s so much better to let buried dogs lay undisturbed where they can quickly decompose out of sight and mind.
And let’s not forget the foreign troops that will be invited to conduct joint exercises on American soil. On February 14, 2008 Northcom and the Canada Command agreed to come to each other’s “aid” in the event of a civil crisis such as floods, forest fires, hurricanes, earthquakes and “the effects of a terrorist attack”. While this description comes from the PR propaganda on Northcom’s web site I would love to read the actual document. Naturally Congress wasn’t consulted and were actually sidestepped entirely. It didn’t matter anyway since they were too busy whoring for re-election contributions at the time, a time honored spring, summer, fall and winter Congressional/Corporate pornographic mating ritual.
Of course, the obvious inference here is that if American citizen soldiers are unable or unwilling to “police” their fellow US citizens, we can always call in the Canadians to help us out. Certainly our Canadian brothers and sisters will be subjected to plenty of official propaganda to prepare them for their friendly invasion. I’m sure the psyops division of both countries can come up with plenty of video of homeless Americans swimming across the Saint Lawrence River in search of Canadian food stamps and citizenship….or at least their version of the green card. There are many other “agreements” with NATO and other individual countries that have been less publicized than this one if that’s even remotely possible
Now for the sleeper “police” force very few seem willing to acknowledge or even aware enough of to intelligently discuss, but who will most certainly be invited to the nationwide block party. Naturally I’m talking about private military contractors of the Blackwater/Xe ilk, also known as privately paid (with taxpayer funds of course) and controlled mercenaries of the increasingly privatized and corporatized America. This isn’t new but rather just a recycling of an old tradition of the Federal Government using private entities to provide “security” and “crowd control”. Blackwater is just the latest.
While everyone was watching what Blackwater and others like them were (and still are) doing over in Iraq and Afghanistan (and in many other countries where they are used as embassy and corporate “security” forces) rarely do we hear about the untold billions they’re being paid for services rendered in the good old US of A. Their presence in New Orleans after Katrina was a primer on how things will be done in the future. The almighty buck is their master and it’s the only flag they salute. God bless Uncle Ben.
Last, but most assuredly not least, will be the alphabet soup of government intelligence agencies (domestic and foreign) as well as too numerous to count private “interests” pushing, prodding and provoking wherever they can to influence the outcome of the civil unrest. This will be done for any number of reasons that will most certainly be at cross purposes with the interests of the American people in general and the actual protestors in particular. This will include the FBI, CIA, DIA, Mossad, MI6, BND and dozens of other public, private and foreign “security” and intelligence organizations whose primary purpose will be the protection of the vested interests of powerful people, corporations and countries. Guess where that leaves you and me?
So who will take to the streets? Ultimately this is impossible to say because the situation will be fluid and the variables unknown and in a constant state of flux. To be frank the time to push back was late in 2008 when the globalist’s financial agenda flipped from covert to overt and their plans were finally exposed for all to see who wished to look. But decades of conditioning and propaganda was sufficient to keep the American people trapped within their own minds and unable to muster the courage to begin the process of breaking free. And once TARP was rammed through without significant or sustained resistance, the financial elite knew it was game on and they’d better get it all while the getting was good.
And getting it all is precisely what they’ve done over the last 2 plus years as private debt was systematically bought by the Federal Reserve for 100 cents on each dollar in the name of “saving” the system. Now the next leg down has begun (I am not measuring economic legs by the stock market) and where it stops nobody really knows. But after 3 years of worsening economic conditions, carefully camouflaged by an artificially pumped stock market, more and more American citizens are waking up to the fact that they’ve been ripped off and to some extent they’ve let it happen. Or at the very least they barely said a word other than bitch and complain to each other about the highway robbery.
This is where the really destructive and ultimately self defeating rage will spring from. Obviously it will be acted out as simple righteous indignation over the repeated daylight robberies of the US treasury by public and private entities. But just like a women scorned, there is no anger quite like that enjoyed by the person who suddenly realizes he or she has been conned and the active ingredient was his or her own greed and willing participation. Facing this ugly self revelation, the ego has no choice but to push every emotional button it can find in a desperate attempt to keep the mind from recognizing that it is partially responsible for its own continuing enslavement.
What usually arises from this internal blame shifting and emotional thrashing about is mindless anger directed at the “responsible” con men whose motto is there will always be customers ready to purchase the lies and self deception they’re selling. Since we can’t possibly shoulder any blame for our dance with the devil no matter how small, this anger will eventually be directed towards any handy minority (group or individual, it doesn’t really matter) who happens to be in the wrong place at the right time.
Case in point is the very recent public services union bashing, themselves just another greedy patsy on a long list of willing participants in our own self destruction. Next up is unionized grocery baggers at the local Safeway followed by Meals-On-Wheels delivery drivers. There are no lows that will not be plumed by a population trying to escape responsibility and self examination and this too will be skillfully used against us.
There is one defining characteristic we Americans proudly boast of that is singularly unique in the entire world and it has nothing to do with our standard of living, GDP or total debt. “We The People” not only believed our leader’s lies about American exceptionalism, but we bought into those lies hook, line and sinker. And for several decades the lie worked magnificently thanks to the magic of a widely accepted reserve currency which enabled us to export most of the corrosive effects of our money printing (aka inflation) outside our borders and the military to enforce it when reluctance surfaced…..such as Iraq and Afghanistan to name just two. Good times were had by all, the punch bowl never ran dry and it was all due to our superior abilities. Until now that is.
This is in contrast to the citizens of various Middle East countries (or much of the developing world for that matter) who are always painfully aware of their real state of existence. Or even the Europeans, who have lived through several thousand years of regime changes, invasions and oppression and for the most part have a much better understanding of the magnitude and scope of the official lies and propaganda and how the dance plays out.
Ultimately this didn’t save the Europeans from their own greed and self interested pursuits, but at least they aren’t completely shocked that it’s all coming apart……..once again. The ice cold shower of awakening we Americans are about to experience will be unlike anything any nation has gone through since possibly WW2 Germany beginning around 1942 when civilian centers were deliberately targeted by Allied bombing and the German population began to really feel the sting of their own self deception and mass delusion. While I have no way of knowing exactly how America’s electro shock therapy will play out, it seems self evident it’s coming if for no other reason than because I can hear the electrical generators firing up in the background. Clear!
How this affects the American psyche as well as the various ways it could play out is well beyond the scope of this essay, but suffice to say it will not be pretty. For some of us escape will be had by digging ever deeper into denial. For others, especially those who become caught up in the vicious cycle of endless anger and fits of self pity and rage, the obvious targets of their self destructive outbursts will be any low level authority figure who stands up to them and that all time favorite among those who diligently practice slave mentality, their fellow slaves. Following our passive/aggressive conditioning, many of us will seek to punish those like us before we ever consider lifting a finger against our own masters.
While I expect cooler heads among the aggrieved will attempt to exert an influence over the angry mobs and demonstrators, we must not diminish the ugly truth that there will be plenty of domestic and foreign entities that will see the coming American domestic strife and unrest as an opportunity to foment violent demonstrations and even armed and violent insurrection. The use of infiltrated agents and agent provocateurs to incite violence and disrupt peaceful protest is a well known and time honored technique used by private parties, governments and even the resistance itself (to maintain plausible deniability for example) to further their own particular goals.
The very fact that spontaneous demonstrations are by their nature unorganized and at best loosely controlled works against the intent of the people demonstrating when those who wish to disrupt and discredit are familiar with and comfortable using any means necessary to maintain or regain control over the population. The worst that can happen to any group of people working to unseat an existing power base is their failure to imagine the lengths to which those in power will go to keep it. Those who don’t lie cheat and steal for a living won’t give proper weight and consideration to the tendency of those who do so to continue to do so, let alone their desire to accelerate their methods of operation.
One would think that once the American people begin to wake up to the extent and breadth of official corruption and manipulation that they would at least be temporarily disabused of seeking additional flights of fantasy. Sadly this is not the case at all. The well worn path many newly awakened minds take is to substitute one form of self delusion with another. A conditioned mind that has been shocked into awareness will immediately begin to seek simple answers that help them rationalize away their own self deception and participation. This tendency will be repeatedly and skillfully exploited by foreign and domestic psyops campaigns. Out of the frying pan and into the fire is an apt description for how it works.
For those who may doubt the veracity of that last paragraph, consider the long and extremely painful path you have walked to get to where you are now in your awakening. How many times have you become demoralized and depressed along the way? How often did you backslide into denial with each new and shocking revelation? How many times did you try to bargain with the truth in order to forget only to fail miserably? How much easier was it for you to adapt to and then accept what you desperately wished to deny because the world remained relatively normal during your acclimation period.
Your awakening happened over a minimum of many months and most likely years and as much as you may have wished you could, it’s impossible to forget once you have been exposed to the previously unthinkable. Now consider what your state of mind would be like if all that you’ve experienced was compressed into a few short months or even several weeks. This is what the average Joe is facing at some point in the future. To have your sense of self identity and community ripped from you by the very people you’ve wanted to believe were your protectors is never easy to deal with under the best of circumstances. The easy road to awareness is behind us and it’s all downhill from here.
So while I can’t answer the title’s question for you I can offer my own opinion as to whether or not Americans will be fired upon. The short answer is that of course they will. Why would you think otherwise when US history offers up dozens of examples to choose from. The powers that be are ego maniacs, the elites have hundreds of years of experience controlling the masses and the masses are mostly living their lives in denial. I consider it inevitable that when the uprisings begin and they turn really ugly that those who are paid to protect the powerful and their assets will follow orders and do precisely that.
Hat Tip to William Banzai7 for the image below.
Once again you can’t see this from your own point of view because you most likely won’t be the one holding the riot gear and facing the screaming mobs. While I’m certain some within the police, military and National Guard will follow their heart and refuse to fire or even follow orders if doing so means hurting their fellow citizens, in effect declaring conscientious objector status, they will for the most part be a small minority and will be quickly weeded out of the ranks by the second or third round of protests.
Considering the insanity the police and troops will be facing as well as the economic collapse that threatens them as well, the police/troops will rally around each other and protect their own closed community using whatever means necessary. Throw in the mercenaries, the agent provocateurs, the psyops campaigns, the meddling from the various intelligence agencies and the only question I have is not if but when and how much.
Someone in the comment section the other day said that since the military is now an all volunteer fighting force, the standard of conduct has been raised and no one in the military would ever fire on their fellow citizens. While I would love to believe this, I see it from a different point of view. Those in the military want(ed) to be in the military, thus they were more likely to buy into military groupthink and its attendant mind control and propaganda. Rest assured that long before any uniformed service person (police or military) is asked to confront their fellow citizens they will be subjected to a barrage of intensive conditioning and will be propagandized to the nth degree.
In my opinion, to believe that the various forces arrayed against the protesting public won’t fire on them is to continue to believe in American exceptionalism and more specifically in the desire of the rich and powerful to finally see the error of their ways and thus immediately cease and desist from further exploitation and pillage. If this is the case, if this is what you believe, then all I can say is that you live in a dream world Neo.
On a more positive note I do think something has changed and it’s still not being recognized for what it is and what it might mean. The interim resolutions in Tunisia and Egypt, while undoubtedly unsettled and tenuous at best, did not result in the massive loss of lives many people and governments thought could and would happen. Libya is playing out how many expected Egypt and Tunisia would, with the powers that be fighting to retain power with modern weapons and no mercy.
My question is this, why didn’t Egypt and Tunisia go up in flames? I have some thoughts on why this is the case and I saw WB7 made mention of this change in one of his posts as well. The people who said no more to the powers that be didn’t show up with broken bottles, rocks and other assorted weapons ready to fight. Instead they just said no in as peaceful a manner as they could and they were saying no to the global Ponzi, not just the local branch. Instead of joining a mindless mob, people were praying, talking, playing music and at times even laughing. This is a dramatic sea change in the herd mentality and one that I hope to examine more closely in the future.
03-01-2011
Cognitive Dissonance
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My guess is the propaganda soldiers will be primed with--to get them to shoot--will be that they're fighting the "socialist enemies of capitalism and democracy" for the Very Survival of this Great Nation.
Yes, Virginia, people really are that dumb. I already hear it every day.
Dear Bob,
I was going to get in line and post this at the end, but your last line "for the very survival of this great nation" caused me to jump in here.
Everyone so far has focused on what the troops would do, not on the actions of the Generals. I believe TPTB will do whatever they can to retain power as CD suggests. However, I believe the military leadership will not stand for it. I have faith in our Generals to see what is going on and to do the right thing "for the very survival of this great nation". After all, if it is a true populace uprising in the name of restoring the principles and ideals of this country, how could they consciously side against it?
Maybe I'm being naive. But I'm coming at this from the deep understanding of the mind and character of one particular military General, my father (retired Major General US Army Reserves). I'm confident in how he would act in the situation being pondered, and I'm willing to bet that those in similar positions with similar training and combat experiences would do the same.
If the uprising occurs, I believe the military sides with the people.
I hear you. Funny, I've never been a big fan of the military, but given the alternatives I'm inclined to agree that a charitable coup would be the best outcome.
Sad, but there are indeed many sadder things.
So, you perversely tune into Fox News (sic) from time to time as well?
I can't even call it a guilty pleasure --- more like gawking at a traffic accident. Only in this case, the wounded and killed are the minds of the American people.
(PS: Nothing in the above should be construed as support for MSNBC, CNN, or any other pro-Establishment,corporate-controlled media outlet.)
I turned off MSM years ago. I don't miss it one whit... It's all bs anyway.
The internet contains some kernels of news along with mountains of bs. Hopefully one can tell one from the other...most of the time.
Not anymore, but I do run into his disciples online with surprising frequency.
I make a few references in the essay to the certainty that the police, National Guard, the military, foreign troops brought in by prior agreement and the mercenaries will all be propagandized to the hilt to help them pull the trigger and live with it afterwards.
Vintage American propaganda c. WWII: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v5QCGqDYGo
Of course it will be colorized and the names changed before being recycled here in America.
What's that.....it's already being done?
Oh!
LOL! Ode to Joy: A Peace That Could Last Forever. Wow.
Mercenaries need no propagandizing. They are loyal to the highest bidder.
You know, for someone possessive of obvious intelligence, you could do better than this scare-mongering topic.
First off, the police shoot citizens every day and the military has shot civilians in the past, so what's the point. Better would be to promote something positive, like where do you hide when the police/military begin firing on civilians, or, what are the best ways to fight back.
Even a travelogue on ex-pat countries would be better than this tripe.
But I suppose you fancy yourself a writer, though I doubt you've ever had to make a living as one or ever had to meet a deadline or ever had to complete an assignment on a subject you didn't particularly like.
The internet has cheapened the value of the written word; your writing is proof of that.
Do yourself a favor. Read some Mencken or, better yet, William Faulkner. Then compare to your work and grade yourself on a scale of 1-10, 10 being the Mencken or Faulkner. It may give your cognitive dissonance a little bit of humility, which would be a blessing to us all.
Say good night, Gracie.
If you didn't read the article, as you point out above, how do you know he is or is not any of the things you ascribe to him? Talking out your ass... again.
The obvious part of your comment is that you are jealous.
This is not English Lit. Book Club, it's Fight Club!
"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken."
And being erudite and loquacious does not make you brainy.
"for someone possessive of obvious intelligence"
Lolz, yea ok.....
I know, I was just calling out my personal favorite. Let Freedom ring!
Freedom has already been used to justify everything. Many times over.
This is easily your best essay yet. Tyler should move this to the top and keep it there for at least the next 24 hours. I bet it would garner over 300 replies.
As to US citizens being fired upon - perhaps. I still can't believe the average soldier would align themselves with the very enemies of their own families & friends.
Glad you enjoyed it. I stopped at This is the first in an occasional series...
I happen to find this writer far too wordy, pedantic and utterly boring. Nice pictures, though.
You know, frankly, Rick, I don't give a shit what you think.
"thanks for yer input... oh, and please, watch your step on the way out."
(mumbles under his breath... "dork")
Well reasoned and thoughtful essay. I agree with B9. Unfortunately, US history is filled with examples of the military, police and private contractors (Pinkertons) firing on men, women and children.
What it isn't filled with is what would happen if the people fought back violently and with temerity. Oh wait, there is one example- the Revolutionary War. There are some good examples in the history of the colonies as well (Bacon's Rebellion).
Tough call all the way around, still, congratulations on a well written piece.
Thank you for the compliment. I have no doubt that civilians will be fired upon. I really have no idea how they will react. A lot depends upon how long the slow grind goes on before the average Joe says enough is enough.
The difference will be if more than just kids hit the streets. I believe the troops/police/whatever will easily justify shooting at mouthy kids who become violent. But get the pharmacist, the school teacher, the janitor, the bank clerk, the middle management person on the protest line and the justification to shoot will become much more difficult. And the consequences much bigger.
The consequences may be bigger, CD, but I don't think it will be much more difficult to shoot because: (1) conditioning has trained people to shoot their fellow humans more quickly and effortlessly, and (2) historically the U.S. army has shot our own people.
Are you familiar with the Ludlow massacre? The Colorado national guard shot and killed 19 family types at an encampment of strikers.
And only in a massive effort of propaganda would MacArthur and Patton be rehabilitated after the Bonus Army was run down in Washington, D.C. in the 1930s. The army corralled women and children with tanks and the calvary rode them down like a cossack would a serf...
It's just human nature to strike at a perceived threat.
As long as the sheeple are well fed and the teevee is on there will only be small protests - easily picking off the ringleaders.
The real uncontrolled riots will be over baby formula and diapers. Looting and generally burning anything that can be reliably started on fire.
Also, consider that only idiots would be firing at riot police with pistol calibers. And anyone with a rifle:
When the shooting starts it will won't last long - the surveillance state already has tabs on all of those that would likely be involved. Expect a knock at 3am - it worked in Russia. Happens for $20 of weed. Right here in the good ole US of A! There will be no "revolution". Balkanization in a big way.
Rocky Mountains FTW!
people in the Country think the door to door thing wont make it thier way... well I hope no one is hurt and / or targeted... but I think in the end we all we stand together or fall individualy. no magic.
Quoting JW n FL / GLP ^TrInIty^
>>people in the Country think the door to door thing wont make it thier way...
>>well I hope no one is hurt and / or targeted...
>>but I think in the end we all we stand together or fall individualy. no magic.
I will not be standing with you, even if... http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/892/gunze.jpg
1. I have told my name is James Edward Workman
2. I am not a fan of .556 or FN (not the FN doesnt make great guns.. my personal preferance is just H and K)... I like H and K.
Good essay Cog Dis and JW... I enjoy reading your posts... I also reside in the Sunshine State...
My take is that it will unfold along the lines of what happened in Nazi Germany but maybe without a nut case like Hitler... hopefully.
Hunger and unemployment were rampant and Hitler promised to end both...and, he did for the 'Aryans'...at least for a time. Of course he suppressed all dissent and even those that might dissent.
Hitler accomplished this eradication of dissent very carefully and in stages.
A smart pied piper could step in and accomplish the same in America when the unemployment get high enough and the people get hungry enough.
Human nature is the same everywhere.
Which might just explain why "they" aren't trying to "fix" the system....at least for the plebs. So much easier to control the crowd when it's fighting among itself for life's basics.
bingo...
sad when the 'embeds' are at the top...
Agreed. Active, tough community. What happens to my neighbor tonight might happen to me on the morrow. Die motherfuckers!
Granny kills dirt for Freedom
i often cite the unfortunate jews who didn't fight on the nazi trains, right from the start. they knew. you *know* they knew what was coming. WTF? where did that silly "hope for change" trust of theirs come from?
so, how many americans will "go down" taking out as many of the "operators" as they can on the way out? certainly not enough. we've recently proven that we also do a lot of "hoping for change" ourselves, haven't we? "gotcher ticket?"
It's not like they will be told "Hey bro, could you do me a solid and kill your family for me? It would really help me out a lot"
I've known a lot of guys who are in now or have been in. They are good guys, but lets just say they are not totally up on the situation of who is really in charge.
It will be spun like an emergency, and if needs be bet there will be a few boys in the crowds with guns to trigger an event even if things are looking peaceful. After all the troops have to shoot back right?
There are other tactics than indulging ourselves in riots, you know. That is just begging for it and they can hardly contain themselves now. Will the police, National Guard, regular Military or XE mercenaries fire on American civilians? Of couse they will if we give them the chance. Consider the virtues of a disorganized resistance. Then pass it along.
http://www.harrysnews.com/tgTheVirtuesofaDisorganizedResistance.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZNr5QiIeSE
Well, I'd say NAY. Why? because the restrictive ROE for the past like five years have brought the 11B/0311 killers into closer to the SpecOps zone of extreme discernment when they put the finger onto the trigger. Then decide to stroke same.
Doesn't mean there will be none in your zone. Does mean that there are a hugely greater set of guys (fewer, but significant group of gals) who sit on the military zone but can actually understand the civil unrest zone. And who can stay out of the civil unrest/Black Panther '68/Weather Underground '68 zone.
But it is a working hypothesis.
- Ned
My running "larger" hypothesis, in my deepest darkest thoughts on this, is...
There may be possibly one division commander who would act on orders from on high. Then it would fall to the line officers to carry them out, if it get's that far. The life expectancy of senior officers to give orders tails off pretty drastically after that as we have seen throughout history.
Short, sharp engagements by the commited professional(s), sure ...yeah.
Ethics and morality will always win out...it is still taught. I don't fear my own massed military as much as I fear walking in some cities...LOL.
"...I fear walking in some cities..."
As you should... !!!
Steel reinforced concrete highrise buildings are exploding all the time.
Concrete Gone!; turned into fine talc dust: everyday, everywhere it happens. Nothing left but short lengths of cut steel beams piled in the footprint!
:<{)
......................................................
"I still find it amazing how many political/military actions were a direct result of 9/11 yet nobody wants to seriously discuss what really went down that day.
Careful because you might not like the stench of whatever it is you dig up.
We all complain about political and governmental secrecy, but the vast majority of Americans don’t want to know what’s going on and are happier when they are deceived.
The big lie we gratefully participate in is that we are a free and self directed people.
It’s so much better to let buried dogs lay undisturbed where they can quickly decompose out of sight and mind."
"As you should... !!!"
LOL...allow me to revise and extend my remarks.
I don't fear drug addled minds who promote a vast government initiated conspiracy when it has been shown and documented time & time again that the very same government is completely incompetent at keeping a secret.
Better? ;-)
Have any A students become cops? C students are what the force wants. And with a badge and a gun they climb over their inferiority complex.. so taking that away throws their whole identity away.. that is why you get that US vs THEM mentality
But it's all bias. If you are on the cop's side you get away with whatever. Profiling is king. So no, they wouldn't be attacking their families, since there are a ton of THEM out there that will get it first
"Have any A students become cops? C students are what the force wants. And with a badge and a gun they climb over their inferiority complex.. so taking that away throws their whole identity away.. that is why you get that US vs THEM mentality"
You don't even know a LEO.
I have many friends at different levels of law enforcement. These people worry about all the same things, have the same problems, no difference. It's a job - and many I know look at their service as actually doing good for people.
Are there fucked up people in law enforcement? Yes. Do I have a healthy dose of disdain for the "law"? Yes. These people I refer to understand my distaste and respect me for being honest about it.
Here's a project for you - get to know someone in law enforcement.
"These people I refer to understand my distaste and respect me for being honest about it."
My bullshit detector just pegged VI. Leo's have distain for anyone who questions their reality. They have a deep need to be right. Even at the expense of Liberty, Truth and Justice. What a symbiotic relationship they have when they come to understand there just a revenue tax collector for the State.
These LEO's are all about the pay check, and count the days to their full pension. What ever they tell themselves to stay "in the game" is delusion, and they own all of it. These Leo's are overseen buy there own Police Arbitration community where they have closed door "conduct review" meetings. These guys are the very definition of cognitive dissonance.
"and many I know look at their service as actually doing good for people" Sounds like God's work to me.
"My bullshit detector just pegged VI."
Your bullshit detector gives false readings in my world, friend. And don't be so cynical, this is Zero Hedge, for dogs sake.
I know a lot of people in law inforcement. My son in law is a cop, a lieutenant. He has a MA in law enforcement from a diploma mill. He was a MP in the military prior to becoming a civilian cop over twenty years ago.
He, and his family, avoid becoming friends with those that are not cops. They find kinship among other cops almost exclusively.
His outlook on the world is 'us vs them'... meaning that he sees non cops as 'them'.
His cop job is officer in charge of the local vice squad. He enjoys running around the local black neighborhoods and busting small time drug dealers... usually the same ones over and over. Is his job productive? His incompetence is legend, even on his own police force. Several times he has kicked down the doors of the wrong house when attempting to carry out a drug raid...and terrorized totally innocent people. Our daughter, the cops wife, has told me that her husband 'enjoys' this type of work. I told her that it is disgusting that a grown man would spend his time so foolishly...sending the same people into the court system time and again, only to see them back on the street in short order. He is not a professional, he is a man playing a childs game of 'good guys vs bad guys'. He is a good example of how our tax money is wasted.
Even the cops children, my grandchildren, have been effected by his choice of profession...in ways that are too painful for me to put into print here. I cannot express how sorry I am that my daughter chose this cop for a husband.
Do I believe that this cop would fire on civilians? Damn right I do... especially if they were black or brown civilians... he has told me that he would if given the leeway to do so.
Great comment.
Sadly most LE people have the same attitude as your daughter's nazi cop husband.
"Are there fucked up people in law enforcement?"
Yes. The large majority.
They happily and arrogantly go around violating the freedoms military soldiers have shed blood to protect.
LE are the soldiers of a police state.
LE are directly responsible for America morphing into a police state.
His statement seems to be valid in many ways. Just look at the requirement for becoming a cop. "A" students aren't becoming cops. That much you know. Not in a city like NY, where starting pay was around $27,000 for awhile. Who carries a gun for that much money? Not an "A" student. It has been my experience, that often people become cops as a last resort type of career.
Not to say there aren't many good people that are cops. There are. But I think you might just over reacting to his comments based on the people you know.
"But I think you might just over reacting to his comments based on the people you know."
Based on my response, yes, I can see how you would come to that conclusion. My reaction was to the textbook bullshit found below (no disrespect). I used see it this way, and then I took the time to start understanding. Everyone has their own experience with LE. Mine includes being chained to a urinal, being layed flat by five cops and being told I had no rights, etc. Get to know these people, if you dare. As an aside, I do believe LE will follow orders...until they don't.
"Have any A students become cops? C students are what the force wants. And with a badge and a gun they climb over their inferiority complex.. so taking that away throws their whole identity away.. that is why you get that US vs THEM mentality"
Fair enough. Thank you sir.
Thank you.
Thank you, VI. Reality matters.