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End Game - Would US Police/Troops Fire Upon US Citizens?
End Game - Would US Police/Troops Fire Upon US Citizens?
By
Cognitive Dissonance
This is the first in an occasional series examining the end of the American Empire and the global shock waves it will produce. Contrary to popular belief I suspect the unraveling will take place over many years, decades even, with sudden plunges and slow partial recoveries aka dead cat bounces. I call this series of examinations “End Game”.
I would wager that the vast majority of people reading this essay have already come to their own conclusion regarding the answer to the title’s query. Certainly you may have several qualifiers and stipulations with which you framed your answer and maybe even a few facts and proofs ready for quick rebuttal if challenged. But my own experience with explosive questions such as this is that there are few who have not already formed an opinion on the matter. If you have not you would be the exception to the rule.
And at this point in the meltdown it would be fair to say there are no correct or incorrect answers to be found, only supposition, assumption and what I expect will be full throated argument to follow in the comment section. May I suggest that whatever answer you’ve come up with wasn’t necessarily arrived at through careful deliberation or contemplation, but rather as an integral part of your overall belief system? And while you may consider all that you believe to be valid and fact based, for all people other than possibly the sociopaths walking among us this is far from the case.
Personally I find that sitting down and writing about a subject forces me to push through all the fuzzy logic and tenuous connections that make up my system of beliefs. For most of us what we think we know or believe is similar to a loosely connected debris field of facts, thoughts, myths, hopes and desires floating on the mind’s surface. Only in this case there really isn’t much mixing or removal of the thought debris by intellectual wave action, just a lifelong rearrangement of the floating deck chairs. When strong emotions are brought into the mix, it’s like a hurricane came through and made an even bigger mess of things.
Much of our belief system is firmly stuck in heavy mud by our late twenties, having been absorbed and adopted during our early years by way of our state mandated education, the popular press, corporate branding initiatives, consensus opinion, deliberately false public myth making and the always present and rarely subtle corporate and governmental propaganda machines. And what we call our mid life crisis is simply that period of time when we begin to call into question many of the basic and fundamental tenets that have guided us to that point. We usually get through this moment of clarity when the bills start piling up and the libido finally begins to fail care of our chemically treated foodstuffs. In practice what we believe is not a coherent jigsaw puzzle held together by reason and “facts”, but rather little islands of hope and belief that would contradict or outright cancel each other like matter and anti-matter if they ever came into contact with one other. I see this all the time not just here in The Hedge (both in the comment section and in various articles from multiple sources) but in newspapers, magazines, blogs, TV and radio; the list really is endless. Selective memory and a convoluted thought process isn’t just the domain of think tanks and the MSM. The alternative press and blogosphere are often just as guilty as well, it being one of the hazards of swimming in the same festering cesspool. Read or listen to any person long enough and you eventually begin to detect errors in logical thought and fact as well as serious conflicts between a person’s articles, books, and lectures; even at times within a specific article or essay. I find this holds true for nearly everyone (including myself) regardless of our denial that it’s happening. Courage is required to challenge our own thinking and weed these discrepancies out. Sadly it’s so much easier to isolate and ignore these inconsistencies then to purge them and face the ugly truths left behind. We hide from ourselves long before we flee the boogie man. The masks we wear in public are crude imitations of the ones we carry within.
Judging from conversations I’ve had with many people from diverse backgrounds the majority of souls seem to come down into one of two camps. For the most part the responses I’ve gathered consist of either “No….but” and “Yes….but” with the clear winner the middle ground of qualified “buts”. When questioned more than superficially and asked to explain or justify their stance, many shamelessly switch back and forth between sides and arguments, proving to me that their opinion is based upon nothing more substantial than wishful thinking and hope. However, most do understand that there are huge variables involved anytime a gun is pointed and fired, regardless of whether the person fired upon is armed or not.
Obviously at this point in the great American unwind no police or military units are patrolling the streets gunning down all who are seen as threatening. And this wasn’t what I was suggesting would happen……at least not unless worse case scenarios are achieved. But the end of the American Empire is approaching, a process that will unravel over decades. And it would be hopelessly naïve or even terminally ignorant to believe that any high ranking “authority” in America has anyone’s interest first other than their own. We can love our slave masters all we want, but they love us only for any remaining productive worth we may offer and no more.
Any remaining belief in high ranking honorable “public servants” should have been thoroughly abandoned after witnessing the outrageous antics of the financial elite and politically connected over the last ten years and particularly the last five. We are all expendable cannon fodder and contrary to any official assurances from the professional propagandists that we are all loved and cared about, we have always been so. Denial of this basic fact is the only real roadblock to a fuller understanding of what’s being done in my name and yours.
False hope inevitably binds us to truly impossible situations and this has consistently been our Achilles Heel, a weakness ruthlessly exploited by the rich and powerful for millennium. The almost universally accepted Abrahamic religious redeemer complex is the ultimate (self) enslavement vehicle. In effect, it forgives those who dish out the punishment and glorifies the suffering of those who are being punished. Talk about your dysfunctional relationship, how are we to live in peace and harmony when the basic tenets of the majority of the world’s religions glorify those who grind our bones to make their bread?
First let’s take a look at who or what would be patrolling the streets under the guise of “keeping the peace”, “finding the terrorists” or whatever excuse the government manufactures in order to justify placing armed uniformed men and women in the population centers of America. And for the purpose of this essay there is the assumption that something has happened or was caused to happen that will be used by the powers that be to deploy police/troops in America under the cover of maintaining law and order.
BTW, we should clearly understand that the real reason the troops will be deployed is to maintain and possibly even consolidate the existing power structure of the powers that be. Or at a minimum to keep the lynch mobs and revenge seekers at bay long enough to make their escape. Is this truly that surprising? After all we have devolved into a banana republic and that’s the way all bananas are eventually peeled.
Initially there would be the local police, supposedly the first line of defense in maintaining the peace. And despite the obvious fact that over the last ten or so years they have been increasingly militarized, the police are for the most part trained to resolve conflict through non-violent means. Or at least that’s the official public myth. Only after you don’t agree with their non violent solution do they pull out their Tasar or Glock. If the first thing you experience is fear when you see flashing lights in the rearview mirror, I would ask you to reconsider the validity of their “non-violent” mission.
Just conduct a “police brutality” YouTube search if you’d like a video lesson on officially sanctioned violence in America. Between the images cruiser dashboard cams have documented and those candid camera videos various citizens have captured via camera phone it’s quite clear police violence isn’t just perpetrated by a few rogue cops on an occasional basis. Instead it appears to be a systemic problem that’s growing worse by the day. A Google word search using the same term will bring back tens of thousands of hits, more than enough to turn your stomach and send the meek and mind controlled scurrying back to the safety of their warm beds. The formerly carefully hidden police state is now coming into full view.
The second line of defense would be the National Guard. If we were talking twenty years ago I might make a disparaging remark about weekend warriors more dangerous to themselves than to others. But eight years of rotations through Iraq and Afghanistan have turned the National Guard into something your father wouldn’t recognize. Without getting too deep into the merits of today’s Guard, better trained has its pluses and minuses as long as we understand what they have now been trained to do.
Then there is the military itself, most likely Army and possibly Special Forces units that will provide the actual boots on the ground. Ever since the creation of NORTHCON on October 1, 2002, supposedly as a direct result of 9/11, the political and financial elite have been overtly preparing for the inevitability of social unrest. Covert preparations extend back decades under cover of any available and plausible excuse in the book.
The military readily admits that it’s not properly trained to execute (no pun intended) domestic police actions and they agree they would be poorly suited to maintain order during any chaotic domestic uprising. And I agree. Home invasions by the military would be just as distasteful for Americans as they are for the Iraqis regardless of what it’s called and under whatever bullshit legal premise it has been authorized.
I can’t help but wonder if the UN Security Council will sanction an invasion of America by a “coalition of the willing” when our time comes around? Don’t laugh because I’m being deadly serious. Do not underestimate the measures the desperate will use to remain in power and don’t assume the rich and powerful are physically located only in the USA. It’s a global game and America has been the home field only for the last 70 or so years. It helps to remember that stock sectors aren’t the only thing that rotates. BTW notice that the eagle below covers all of North America, not just the USA.
On a side note, I still find it amazing how many political/military actions were a direct result of 9/11 yet nobody wants to seriously discuss what really went down that day. Careful because you might not like the stench of whatever it is you dig up. We all complain about political and governmental secrecy, but the vast majority of Americans don’t want to know what’s going on and are happier when they are deceived. The big lie we gratefully participate in is that we are a free and self directed people. It’s so much better to let buried dogs lay undisturbed where they can quickly decompose out of sight and mind.
And let’s not forget the foreign troops that will be invited to conduct joint exercises on American soil. On February 14, 2008 Northcom and the Canada Command agreed to come to each other’s “aid” in the event of a civil crisis such as floods, forest fires, hurricanes, earthquakes and “the effects of a terrorist attack”. While this description comes from the PR propaganda on Northcom’s web site I would love to read the actual document. Naturally Congress wasn’t consulted and were actually sidestepped entirely. It didn’t matter anyway since they were too busy whoring for re-election contributions at the time, a time honored spring, summer, fall and winter Congressional/Corporate pornographic mating ritual.
Of course, the obvious inference here is that if American citizen soldiers are unable or unwilling to “police” their fellow US citizens, we can always call in the Canadians to help us out. Certainly our Canadian brothers and sisters will be subjected to plenty of official propaganda to prepare them for their friendly invasion. I’m sure the psyops division of both countries can come up with plenty of video of homeless Americans swimming across the Saint Lawrence River in search of Canadian food stamps and citizenship….or at least their version of the green card. There are many other “agreements” with NATO and other individual countries that have been less publicized than this one if that’s even remotely possible
Now for the sleeper “police” force very few seem willing to acknowledge or even aware enough of to intelligently discuss, but who will most certainly be invited to the nationwide block party. Naturally I’m talking about private military contractors of the Blackwater/Xe ilk, also known as privately paid (with taxpayer funds of course) and controlled mercenaries of the increasingly privatized and corporatized America. This isn’t new but rather just a recycling of an old tradition of the Federal Government using private entities to provide “security” and “crowd control”. Blackwater is just the latest.
While everyone was watching what Blackwater and others like them were (and still are) doing over in Iraq and Afghanistan (and in many other countries where they are used as embassy and corporate “security” forces) rarely do we hear about the untold billions they’re being paid for services rendered in the good old US of A. Their presence in New Orleans after Katrina was a primer on how things will be done in the future. The almighty buck is their master and it’s the only flag they salute. God bless Uncle Ben.
Last, but most assuredly not least, will be the alphabet soup of government intelligence agencies (domestic and foreign) as well as too numerous to count private “interests” pushing, prodding and provoking wherever they can to influence the outcome of the civil unrest. This will be done for any number of reasons that will most certainly be at cross purposes with the interests of the American people in general and the actual protestors in particular. This will include the FBI, CIA, DIA, Mossad, MI6, BND and dozens of other public, private and foreign “security” and intelligence organizations whose primary purpose will be the protection of the vested interests of powerful people, corporations and countries. Guess where that leaves you and me?
So who will take to the streets? Ultimately this is impossible to say because the situation will be fluid and the variables unknown and in a constant state of flux. To be frank the time to push back was late in 2008 when the globalist’s financial agenda flipped from covert to overt and their plans were finally exposed for all to see who wished to look. But decades of conditioning and propaganda was sufficient to keep the American people trapped within their own minds and unable to muster the courage to begin the process of breaking free. And once TARP was rammed through without significant or sustained resistance, the financial elite knew it was game on and they’d better get it all while the getting was good.
And getting it all is precisely what they’ve done over the last 2 plus years as private debt was systematically bought by the Federal Reserve for 100 cents on each dollar in the name of “saving” the system. Now the next leg down has begun (I am not measuring economic legs by the stock market) and where it stops nobody really knows. But after 3 years of worsening economic conditions, carefully camouflaged by an artificially pumped stock market, more and more American citizens are waking up to the fact that they’ve been ripped off and to some extent they’ve let it happen. Or at the very least they barely said a word other than bitch and complain to each other about the highway robbery.
This is where the really destructive and ultimately self defeating rage will spring from. Obviously it will be acted out as simple righteous indignation over the repeated daylight robberies of the US treasury by public and private entities. But just like a women scorned, there is no anger quite like that enjoyed by the person who suddenly realizes he or she has been conned and the active ingredient was his or her own greed and willing participation. Facing this ugly self revelation, the ego has no choice but to push every emotional button it can find in a desperate attempt to keep the mind from recognizing that it is partially responsible for its own continuing enslavement.
What usually arises from this internal blame shifting and emotional thrashing about is mindless anger directed at the “responsible” con men whose motto is there will always be customers ready to purchase the lies and self deception they’re selling. Since we can’t possibly shoulder any blame for our dance with the devil no matter how small, this anger will eventually be directed towards any handy minority (group or individual, it doesn’t really matter) who happens to be in the wrong place at the right time.
Case in point is the very recent public services union bashing, themselves just another greedy patsy on a long list of willing participants in our own self destruction. Next up is unionized grocery baggers at the local Safeway followed by Meals-On-Wheels delivery drivers. There are no lows that will not be plumed by a population trying to escape responsibility and self examination and this too will be skillfully used against us.
There is one defining characteristic we Americans proudly boast of that is singularly unique in the entire world and it has nothing to do with our standard of living, GDP or total debt. “We The People” not only believed our leader’s lies about American exceptionalism, but we bought into those lies hook, line and sinker. And for several decades the lie worked magnificently thanks to the magic of a widely accepted reserve currency which enabled us to export most of the corrosive effects of our money printing (aka inflation) outside our borders and the military to enforce it when reluctance surfaced…..such as Iraq and Afghanistan to name just two. Good times were had by all, the punch bowl never ran dry and it was all due to our superior abilities. Until now that is.
This is in contrast to the citizens of various Middle East countries (or much of the developing world for that matter) who are always painfully aware of their real state of existence. Or even the Europeans, who have lived through several thousand years of regime changes, invasions and oppression and for the most part have a much better understanding of the magnitude and scope of the official lies and propaganda and how the dance plays out.
Ultimately this didn’t save the Europeans from their own greed and self interested pursuits, but at least they aren’t completely shocked that it’s all coming apart……..once again. The ice cold shower of awakening we Americans are about to experience will be unlike anything any nation has gone through since possibly WW2 Germany beginning around 1942 when civilian centers were deliberately targeted by Allied bombing and the German population began to really feel the sting of their own self deception and mass delusion. While I have no way of knowing exactly how America’s electro shock therapy will play out, it seems self evident it’s coming if for no other reason than because I can hear the electrical generators firing up in the background. Clear!
How this affects the American psyche as well as the various ways it could play out is well beyond the scope of this essay, but suffice to say it will not be pretty. For some of us escape will be had by digging ever deeper into denial. For others, especially those who become caught up in the vicious cycle of endless anger and fits of self pity and rage, the obvious targets of their self destructive outbursts will be any low level authority figure who stands up to them and that all time favorite among those who diligently practice slave mentality, their fellow slaves. Following our passive/aggressive conditioning, many of us will seek to punish those like us before we ever consider lifting a finger against our own masters.
While I expect cooler heads among the aggrieved will attempt to exert an influence over the angry mobs and demonstrators, we must not diminish the ugly truth that there will be plenty of domestic and foreign entities that will see the coming American domestic strife and unrest as an opportunity to foment violent demonstrations and even armed and violent insurrection. The use of infiltrated agents and agent provocateurs to incite violence and disrupt peaceful protest is a well known and time honored technique used by private parties, governments and even the resistance itself (to maintain plausible deniability for example) to further their own particular goals.
The very fact that spontaneous demonstrations are by their nature unorganized and at best loosely controlled works against the intent of the people demonstrating when those who wish to disrupt and discredit are familiar with and comfortable using any means necessary to maintain or regain control over the population. The worst that can happen to any group of people working to unseat an existing power base is their failure to imagine the lengths to which those in power will go to keep it. Those who don’t lie cheat and steal for a living won’t give proper weight and consideration to the tendency of those who do so to continue to do so, let alone their desire to accelerate their methods of operation.
One would think that once the American people begin to wake up to the extent and breadth of official corruption and manipulation that they would at least be temporarily disabused of seeking additional flights of fantasy. Sadly this is not the case at all. The well worn path many newly awakened minds take is to substitute one form of self delusion with another. A conditioned mind that has been shocked into awareness will immediately begin to seek simple answers that help them rationalize away their own self deception and participation. This tendency will be repeatedly and skillfully exploited by foreign and domestic psyops campaigns. Out of the frying pan and into the fire is an apt description for how it works.
For those who may doubt the veracity of that last paragraph, consider the long and extremely painful path you have walked to get to where you are now in your awakening. How many times have you become demoralized and depressed along the way? How often did you backslide into denial with each new and shocking revelation? How many times did you try to bargain with the truth in order to forget only to fail miserably? How much easier was it for you to adapt to and then accept what you desperately wished to deny because the world remained relatively normal during your acclimation period.
Your awakening happened over a minimum of many months and most likely years and as much as you may have wished you could, it’s impossible to forget once you have been exposed to the previously unthinkable. Now consider what your state of mind would be like if all that you’ve experienced was compressed into a few short months or even several weeks. This is what the average Joe is facing at some point in the future. To have your sense of self identity and community ripped from you by the very people you’ve wanted to believe were your protectors is never easy to deal with under the best of circumstances. The easy road to awareness is behind us and it’s all downhill from here.
So while I can’t answer the title’s question for you I can offer my own opinion as to whether or not Americans will be fired upon. The short answer is that of course they will. Why would you think otherwise when US history offers up dozens of examples to choose from. The powers that be are ego maniacs, the elites have hundreds of years of experience controlling the masses and the masses are mostly living their lives in denial. I consider it inevitable that when the uprisings begin and they turn really ugly that those who are paid to protect the powerful and their assets will follow orders and do precisely that.
Hat Tip to William Banzai7 for the image below.
Once again you can’t see this from your own point of view because you most likely won’t be the one holding the riot gear and facing the screaming mobs. While I’m certain some within the police, military and National Guard will follow their heart and refuse to fire or even follow orders if doing so means hurting their fellow citizens, in effect declaring conscientious objector status, they will for the most part be a small minority and will be quickly weeded out of the ranks by the second or third round of protests.
Considering the insanity the police and troops will be facing as well as the economic collapse that threatens them as well, the police/troops will rally around each other and protect their own closed community using whatever means necessary. Throw in the mercenaries, the agent provocateurs, the psyops campaigns, the meddling from the various intelligence agencies and the only question I have is not if but when and how much.
Someone in the comment section the other day said that since the military is now an all volunteer fighting force, the standard of conduct has been raised and no one in the military would ever fire on their fellow citizens. While I would love to believe this, I see it from a different point of view. Those in the military want(ed) to be in the military, thus they were more likely to buy into military groupthink and its attendant mind control and propaganda. Rest assured that long before any uniformed service person (police or military) is asked to confront their fellow citizens they will be subjected to a barrage of intensive conditioning and will be propagandized to the nth degree.
In my opinion, to believe that the various forces arrayed against the protesting public won’t fire on them is to continue to believe in American exceptionalism and more specifically in the desire of the rich and powerful to finally see the error of their ways and thus immediately cease and desist from further exploitation and pillage. If this is the case, if this is what you believe, then all I can say is that you live in a dream world Neo.
On a more positive note I do think something has changed and it’s still not being recognized for what it is and what it might mean. The interim resolutions in Tunisia and Egypt, while undoubtedly unsettled and tenuous at best, did not result in the massive loss of lives many people and governments thought could and would happen. Libya is playing out how many expected Egypt and Tunisia would, with the powers that be fighting to retain power with modern weapons and no mercy.
My question is this, why didn’t Egypt and Tunisia go up in flames? I have some thoughts on why this is the case and I saw WB7 made mention of this change in one of his posts as well. The people who said no more to the powers that be didn’t show up with broken bottles, rocks and other assorted weapons ready to fight. Instead they just said no in as peaceful a manner as they could and they were saying no to the global Ponzi, not just the local branch. Instead of joining a mindless mob, people were praying, talking, playing music and at times even laughing. This is a dramatic sea change in the herd mentality and one that I hope to examine more closely in the future.
03-01-2011
Cognitive Dissonance
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Agreed.
Profiling is king? If only!!! The number one source of police state legislation and organisation since 9/11 has been our sensitive multi-culti namby-pamby approach built around refusal to profile. We are giving up our freedoms, our privacy, our time and money, and risking a police state because we refuse to profile. The problem isn't so much terrorism as islamism, and the latter is effing easy to spot!
Like half of the 9-11 crew had variants of the name Muhammed, for fuck's sake. The guy who shot up the military base in Texas a little while back was an overt islamo nutter well recognized 360 degrees around him for that, but such was the weight of PC that nothing effective could be done. Say what you want about McCarthyism, but at least back then we had the common sense to discriminate against actual communists during the cold war against communism, at least as regards sensitive governement positions. We didn't want them as officers in the army, for example. Sheesh.
you can read what is in your head or read what someone typed. I was talking about cops and profiling. not the BS TSA and other Federal crap..
cops profile all the time. outofstaters, teens, wrong side of the tracks.. that stuff
You say they do, they say they don't. Oh, and take the supposedly fascist law passed in Arizona, which did nothing to further profiling as a reason to stop someone. There has to be cause, but then usually there is. Criminals tend to be stupid, and stupid people tend to be poor, and have broken turn indicators, bare tires, or weaving behaviors because they are intoxicated. If such behavior is strongly correlated out there in the population with some racial and ethnic identities, that isn't the LEO's fault. They are just enforcing the law, catching its violators, whoever they are. Being less stupid would be a bigger help to the latter than becoming more white would, with the great majority of LEOs out there.
"Criminals tend to be stupid, and stupid people tend to be poor, and have broken turn indicators, bare tires, or weaving behaviors because they are intoxicated."
Wow, I think there is still room in your mouth for some more foot; you'd better hurry though, it's filling up quickly.
You must have missed the COPS: wall st. edition. Oh wait, nevermind, that show doesn't exist. They never arrest those guys; this means that they must not be criminals, am I right?
/sarc off/
"They are just enforcing the law ..."
... regardless of how unconstituional it is, regardless of how much it abuses citizens and violates their rights.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (non-profit, true grassroots ex-cops, judges and DAs) exposes the ethnic cleansing (yes, ethnic cleansing is what it is called) by the rednecks (like Tuberculosis here) via tge "drug war".
www.leap.cc
The "war on drugs" was the genocidal response of the elites to the 1960s "war on poverty" and the way these bankster/CIA elites broke the old, real populist Democrats right down the Mason Dixon bigots' line (in response to 1964 Civil Rights Act).
Faux News programmed, drug warrior rednecks like this need a serious ass-whooping.
PS the C!A has always been the #1 drug cartel.
If you say so dood, but they are pikers, genocide-wise, compared to Planned Parenthood, which was started as a eugenics project, and has been crazy successfull at reducing the reproduction of minorities.
No shit!
I agree, plants will be planted. But - in an emergency, with the internet down, perhaps with rolling blackouts, gasoline so expensive...
The cities will be the focus, and the rural dwellers will be able to move around most easily.
The only place to be heard will be the most likely place to be shot. The only place to eat, walk and organize will be the country.
The cities will be the focus, and the rural dwellers will be able to move around most easily.
NOT - Roadblocks will be every 10 to 15 miles. "Let's see your license, sir - where are you going and for what reason? And I need to see what's in your trunk, can you open the trunk NOW" (hand on pistol grip, slips off the holster strap, motions to backup) Already happening where there might be 'illegals' transiting the area, or druggies on the road, or any excuse to set up the exercise on all roads in the county.
10 years past, I recall heading W. on I-10 across Texas and as I approached a good dozen flashing blue and red lights in the East-bound lanes, observed a late model Oldsmobine pulled over with a black man wearing a bright white pressed shirt on his knees with hands locked behind his neck near the closest State Patrol car; Texas trooper with shotgun at ready watching his fellows rip apart the car. Never traveled that highway again.
Well if their only every 10 or 15 miles, that gives me plenty of room to play in. An area of at least 10+ square miles. But then I'm in the country with neighbors who are ready and plenty of resources around us.
Not to mention that in any really rural area, every 10 to 15 miles would take a helluva lot more cops than most places I know have. We have entire counties with only 15 or 20 cops.
+++ 10-15 Mile Checkpoints is a serious Math-Fail, given the numbers of highways and by-ways, country roads and backwoods trails (depending where you live).
Few will be able to move around easily. Fuel will be expensive and rationed, with preference to govt and corporate employees. For others bicycles will get popular. But rurals will still have advantages.
Scoping out those rural interstates gives an idea where roadblocks will be, but if without a pass, a transponder, or a badge it might be best to stick to local roads. Living rural means you probably know those manning the first roadblock each way on the state road, and it also means you knowing how to avoid it. Going further will rarely be desirable or necessary.
Perhaps it is becuase I live in such a rural area, perhaps it is the geographic region I live in, but if you are just an average Joe trying to live an average Joe life, the cops around here are your friends, not your enemy. I have very close friends, neighbors, and aquaintences who are LEOs at different levels with different agencies.
When martial law is declared, and it WILL be, they will NOT be trying to fuck with the little guy who is holed up in his house or retreat just trying to keep shitheads from stealing their food. As long as you're not stupid, these cops will look the other way and let you go about your business. The cops I know aren't going to tear your house apart looking for guns; most of them know that they can't protect you, that you have to protect yourself.
Will they shoot rioters/looters? Perhaps. I hope it doesn't come to that, for everybody's sake. But the unrest I envision in my area will more likely consist of hungry, pissed off eaters who were either wearing blinders for decades, or were too helpless to prepare for tough times. As shitty as it sounds, these are the people I am preparing to defend myself against anyway, therefore the police will be on my side. In the beginning anyway.
I know this smacks of a "last one left standing to feed the crocodile" mentality, but I see it as the necessary step before real substantial change occurs. Chaos will have to ensue and lose, before effective organization will occur.
The next step is an entirely different discussion.
I hope you’re right Colonel. We’re prepared to be sequestered for a time and as long as the police/military don’t bother us, we’re happy to do the same. We live in one of the most isolated places in the world, so I expect resources to diminish quickly when TSHTF. That’s what scares me, martial law declared and we get a knock on our door saying that we need to visit camp FEMA for a while and when we return, everything is gone. It’s not the luxury items that I’d miss as we don’t have many but things like food, seeds, guns, ammo, etc., think Maslow’s hierarchy.
BTW, good job CD, I appreciate you getting us thinking along these lines.
Mainly (horribly oversimplifying) I think that initial unrest is going to come from (ironically, because they are biting the hand that feeds them) the "pro-government" people in the U.S.. This will ultimately be the result of increasing food prices, economic collapse and what is perceived to be economic injustice. TPTB are not going to roll over for the starving masses, and I fear (Mako'ish) that millions will not survive this. Without firing a shot, TPTB will be able to starve out the masses, in reality eliminating what has been a huge thorn in their side for decades.
I honestly think that TPTB, (police, government, National Guard etc..) are going to be too busy dealing with the millions, that they are not going to be too interested in a dude planting a garden in the country somewhere. The squeaky wheels will be the ones getting greased. I am certainly not cheering for the death of masses, but I'm afraid it is what is coming. Unavoidable. The very same Government that claims to care so much will prove to be horribly efficient (first time for everything) at letting/helping people die.
The next step for them, is how to deal with the people (you in your garden) who are left. These are going to tend to be the more self sufficient and wealthy, and difficult to subdue. That is when true "revolution" will occur, armed or (hopefully) otherwise.
There is simply no way to have a successful productive revolution/overthrow/[insert generic term here] today. The whole of our population is too large, too devided, and has opposing goals. Those with a Socialist bent will riot first and lose. Those who are left MIGHT have a shot at pulling it off. But the US populace as a whole? Never happen.
There are many people here who say that the Govt. can't stand against an armed populace of 80 million. I disagree. At least to the extent that 60 million of us will get slaughtered like lambs because we have no organization, training, communication, or even similar goals. Can you imagine Egypt if a million of those people would have been armed? Mubarek would have blown them all to Hell, and having defeated the "armed insurgency", he'd still have people kissing his ring. Who would we shoot at while mobbed together in town squares? As free as we are (snort), there is no way to organize in advance. Militias are either "nuts" or portrayed to be so, and jailed or killed.
Any effective resistance would need to come from bottom up, at a local level, and be done at a time when Big Brother is busy with something else. (Detroit, Chicago, L.A., N.Y., etc.. on fire)
Ultimately there's a boot for every throat, and that threat needs to be confronted, but there is a shitload of unrest coming down the pike first, that I believe needs to be avoided rather than participated in. When the first dust cloud begins to settle, it's time to reassess.
Good luck to you.
One point you don't elucidate is that with the many dead, gov and TPTB may then safely take on the rest.
As I said before I'm grossly oversimplifying, but I don't really think that those who are going to lose out in the first round of unrest are people who would support a free people, or be very useful in achieving that cause.
Mostly I'm saying that when Detroit goes up in flames because their SNAP cards won't work, don't expect to see me there. It isn't my fight. And those aren't people who would take up arms to help overthrow statists and return to a constitutional government.
Let the leftists and statists fight it out first. Then we take on what's left if it's still necessary. The irony is that Statists think I'm a threat. It's their own sheep that will be coming for them.
Good stuff! Thanks Col.
I think this comment might need some adjusting, however:
Presuming there is some Internet/phone operablility, the ME has shown that social networking works. And if TPTB shut down the Internets (thank you GWB), the young folks will come out their front doors in their undies and add to the chaos.
Remember the old joke: Back in Abe Lincoln's day, when a wind blew out your candles did you go out on the porch to see if everyone else's candles were out?
Thanks Rocky. You are correct, but I was referring more to organizing in terms of militia.
Naturally you followed up to find out what it was about, correct?
I mean, just assuming the cops were fascists and the guy getting arrested had his rights violated would be, well...pretty godamned incurious of you now wouldn't it?
when the lights go out... whos not to say the police arent walking targets less than the un-armed people they have harrassed going back decades? whos to say those blue lights are not bullet magnet? whos to say the people may have just about had enough of beat downs, shootings and red tape from the leo community?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTQ5PTlxD0M
Time is running out, enjoy the last days of being the bully in the school yard LEO.
Quoting JW n FL / GLP ^TrInIty^
>>when the lights go out... whos not to say the police arent walking targets
These comments should be reserved for the funny-farm forum that you own and control, not here at ZH. While on the subject of malfeasance... Know anything about spyware?... http://www.ftc.gov/os/comments/spyware/040414lucas2.pdf
It would appear that a line has been drawn in the sand. You can like JW or hate him, but as I've said for a long time, he is who he is and I don't think it's an internet tough guy thing.
Not sure I'd step across that line if I were you.
No... no.. nothing like that, just meet and have some coffee and I would then try to figure out why Jason and Alex would believe that I was a good person to use to advertise thier shitty fucking web site behind (of everyone of my posts).
But other than that, how are you Sir? I hope all is well out your way.
Lets hope for the best but prepare for the worst is my motto as of late. It is harder to control your own water and power in the city than one might think... space and building requirements are a bitch.
All is fine JW.
Maybe you should get the hell out of that city you live in. Find a spot in the woods somewhere.
Take care.
I keep telling you my name... James Edward Workman... would you like to meet me in person, you can.
ZH readers skip on please this one's for ...
JW n FL / ^TrInIty^ / J.L. / J.E.W.
For the second time... If you want to finish this, meet me at the forum you are very aware of. Create an account (totally free) chat with me there. We can work out our impasse. I have an IP that is not banned that I'm prepared to get hosed. You can also create a disposable web mail address if you wish. I want to talk.
JWinFL, you are a shit stirrer. you are TRINITY from GLP.
Zerohedge readers, please disregard what JW in FL says, he is a paid to datamine, to stir the emotions and collect reactions, and names if possible.
JWinFL is the enemy. the enemy of common decency.
oh, your GLP forum is a loony bin, and your taste in gangsta rap sucks.
and by the way it was your shitty taste in music that gave you away.
you large pile of shit. you are scum. you aer the real enemy JWinFL
YOU SUCK.
Quoting mikhail lalashnikove:
JW n FL, you are a shit stirrer. you are TRINITY from GLP. Zerohedge readers, please disregard what JW n FL says, he is a paid to datamine, to stir the emotions and collect reactions, and names if possible. JWinFL is the enemy. the enemy of common decency. oh, your GLP forum is a loony bin, and your taste in gangsta rap sucks. and by the way it was your shitty taste in music that gave you away. you large pile of shit. you are scum. you are the real enemy JW n FL
mikhail, I assume you are refering to the owner of www.godlikeproductions.com posting here as JW n FL... Harsh but true! I have a distaste for his self destructive poison. Some seem to think he is bi-polar, I personally think he a psycopath (a person who lack empathy, only understanding pleasure or pain). I might have felt sorry for him, if I hadden't had the mis-fortune to work with such a person. The book "Snakes In Suits: When Psychopaths Go To Work. by. Paul Babiak, Ph.D. and Robert D. Hare, Ph.D." Published by HarperCollins. Review here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/article826475.ece
Generally this type of community so sure of its victimitude does much more damage to itself during any sort of uprising than it does to LE.
LE are hired guns of government thuggery, front-line mercenaries in government vs citizens.
Mercenaries are loyal only to their government bosses.
Any LE person believing otherwise is a delusional fool.
As government thuggery gets worse LE will be increasingly viewed as government mercenaries. How it plays out is anyone's guess.
There's no way I'd be a LE government mercenary facing increasingly enraged looted ripped-off violated abused armed citizens.
For every ying, there is a yang.
Granted, there might be significant numbers of soldiers who may not know who's really in charge and may not be so disinclined as to shoot civilians.
However, and this is a really big however, they may pause to reflect & consider that their family's neighbors know what their current involvement may or may not be.
There's a reason the police typically "lose their uniforms"; it's not just for their own personal safety, but the safety of extremely, shall we say, soft targets. If you get my drift.
I cannot believe the MIC really wants to get into this kind of insurgency in its own back yard. It's not just about IED's targeted at troops & directed sniping activity.
The real nasty stuff is reserved for the shadow battles. These typically incorporate primal drivers like 'retribution' and end up involving all kinds of 'innocents'. The PTB need to consider just how may direct & indirect family members can be protected?
Thanks for your rational comment!
I'm not saying want a fight, why would they? I'm sure they would much rather people peaceably go along with being looted and exterminated. This is a contingency plan I would assume. Never want to waste resources unless you have to after all.
And I think you are putting a lot of thought into what will be a heat of the moment decision. I expect the first shots to come from an "orderly" dispersal of protesters and some shots start ala Boston Massacre. They will not think about it in the fire fight. Once they have pulled triggers they will be more or less mentally committed. Even if there are not plants, if you have a bunch of pissed off armed people and police/military trying to suppress them one of those guys is going to take a shot, won't have anything to lose in their own minds.
"...if you have a bunch of pissed off armed people and police/military trying to suppress them one of those guys is going to take a shot"
Please list the dates and locations of such incidents in the US since... let's say, 1965.
I'm not remembering any except the ones where the government attacked citizens, who may have had guns or not but who did not confront the government first. Leave Waco and Ruby Ridge off your list.
Others?
From my essay.
...which is why we've avoided all "political meeting" invitations, tea party, whatever.
This happened at Kent State. There were shots or firecrackers before the Guardsman fired. Ditto additional guns at Bobby Kennedy and probably JFK.
Bingo! If the masses are being violent enough just plant a few boys in there to cause a ruckus. It's all but assured the enforcers will pull triggers when asked. As you point out the oligarchs are an old hand at this. Nothing new under the sun. It feels special and unique because it's happening to us, but it's no different then our forebears have endured. Just higher tech and more Kafkaesque, but the main idea is the same.
I don't even think it has to go that far. When my girlfriend told her family that she was going to march on the pentagon with IVAW, her mother threw a crying fit and her brother, in the military, said "fuck those pussies." In an earlier thread, a poster and alleged ex-military guy said "dude, I'd shoot protesters waiving a hammer and sickle flag." If (When) things get out of hand, at least some protesters will be waiving communist flags. The attitude is that "civies" owe the "heroes" a favor, and if we don't fall in line and acknowledge that favor with gratitude by blindly following our "elected leaders" and bastions of corporate leadership, we are traitors. I have no doubt that it would take MINIMAL propagandizing to get them to shoot us at that point. The brown people are just a temporary diversion and tool to train LE and military in dehumanization, a mere prologue. They are getting ready to torture us indiscriminately as well.
Indeed, the belief, taken so for granted, that military people deserve extra honor and respect is more repugnant that fecal matter to me.
Think of the thousands of PTSD cases back home. Unemployed. Discouraged. Hairline cracks ready to shatter - "full battle rattle". Obviously the employment outlook won't change anytime soon. This just adds normally good men to the sociopathic ranks that love to stir up trouble on a full-time basis.
"Hey, Uncle Sam needs you back!"
Everything they learned in skool about America will become background noise shouted by those that "just don't understand". Once the molotovs start flying the sniper teams will open up.
On YouTube there are many bubbas that have announced they will fire on martial law checkpoints without a second thought. Get into the Alex Jones world for a few months and you won't think it entirely enreasonable.
"Would US Police/Troops Fire Upon US Citizens?"
Um, they already do. Every day.
"Would US Police/Troops Fire Upon US Citizens?"
Um, they already do. Every day.
That's ridiculous. We all would shoot fellow citizens under the right circumstances. If you are trying to rob my home or assault my friends and family you can sure as hell bet I will fire on you! Is that shooting a U.S. citizen? Strictly speaking if you're not an immigrant, yes! Under the proper meaning, no! I am firing on a criminal in defense of self and property. Cops do that every day. Troops do not. Find me articles anywhere of the Army or National Guard shooting citizens every day. Does not happen.
Context is everything. If the violence is perceived as some fringe threat like the old Black Panthers, Weathermen, Commie uprising, it could happen in a violent scenario. If its nonviolent, then still won't happen.
What is posited in this rambling poorly written article is some sort of national uprising against a failed and even authoritarian government. I personally don't think you can realistically answer that question because of the variables.
Cops can break both ways and would depending on the scenario. If Texas secedes from the Union it is unlikely Dallas cops will fire on Texas citizens. Nor will the Texas National Guard. More likely is say a "blue" state goes full socialist but the Tea Party, local militias and allied individuals don't want to go along. Top cops are political appointees and will support the State. Contrary to our popular myth, cops work for the State and not the public. That's why you get traffic stops to raise cash for the state. They become a branch of the Dept. of Revenue in every state. No one votes for seat belt laws or even heavy handed traffic fines and laws. Cops walk on the dark side and because of the pressures and contradictions in what they are asked to do, sometimes cross over. In the end, they serve the state, though. So many will stand with the state but many will not, particularly in Mayberry if you get the picture.
National Guard, not likely although they are trained in riot control and in uncertain situations may err. But they are local citizens themselves and lately have been in real combat in the Middle East. They are not up for public suppression, in general. However, they are controlled by the Governors and in a blue state gone socialist might support the state, but would have many defections.
Army-No way. Won't happen. I speak as an ex-officer. Reason one is that the Army has no history of authoritarian actions with the public like your local police officer. They are trained to shoot the enemy and not their neighbors. I assure you that it will not happen except in very specific nearly impossible circumstances. They are the ace in the hole, actually. The reason is that in a totalitarian state they have bigger guns that your local police force. In fact, they are the only ones that do. Even your best survivalist or militia could not hold out long against your average police force and SWAT teams. The Army has no tradition of being loyal to individuals. In the U.S. we do not swear loyalty to the fearless leader like a Hitler or Mao or Mubarak. MacArthur was fired by Truman and no revolt. Nixon is nearly impeached and he could never have called on the Army. There are no kickbacks and bribes and favors like N. Korea or most the third world...where they have a veto if not direct selection of any government. There is no Praetorian guard. Even in some apocalyptic U.S. scenario the Army would melt away or stay on the sidelines. I feel certain of that. Even in the Civil War, the Army officers returned to fight for their states and did not do public suppression.
So, context is everything. Even in a hyperinflation meltdown as is popular here on ZH, you will find local cops on your side trying to protect you as you get your PM's out of your safe deposit box or keep you from getting carjacked as you grocery shop. There are not many realistic scenarios where you'd have to worry about this, I believe.
I actually don't worry about the police forces of any type (Cops, NG, Army) as much as I worry about how much of an authoritarian state we will tolerate peacefully. That is more the police forces of the IRS, DEA, FDA, ATF, etc. History says we will put up with a hell of a lot. I think even more not less so in America because we have an investment in our homes, cars, neighborhoods, etc. So, we will suffer terrible tax rates, tens of thousands of pages of regulations, government protection rackets, inflation, banker stimuli, etc. To not do that is to say you are willing to risk losing everything you have...as our founders pledged their honor and fortunes. I am not sure we are of their caliber. Plus, we are the proverbial frog in the water and it is hard to tell when to jump out.
"
I actually don't worry about the police forces of any type (Cops, NG, Army) as much as I worry about how much of an authoritarian state we will tolerate peacefully. Etc., etc."
I'm thinking the same thing and I'm sure others are too.
Police Power out of control:
http://reason.com/archives/2010/03/16/pre-crime-policing
http://reason.com/archives/2010/03/01/45-swat-raids-per-day
http://reason.com/archives/2010/02/17/flashbangs-under-fire
http://reason.com/archives/2009/12/14/chicagos-thick-blue-wall
http://reason.com/archives/2009/12/01/jericho-bile
http://reason.com/archives/2009/10/05/scenes-from-a-crackdown
http://reason.com/archives/2009/09/28/the-infallible-prosecutor
http://reason.com/archives/2010/01/19/sheriff-joes-enabler
Careful with that axe Eugene!
Was just about to post about Reason. Current print issue has another story on the militarization of our police departments.
Good topic search string here: http://reason.com/topics/militarization-of-police
Look for the most recent print edition for an excellent article, should be added to the topic heading online soon.