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In Entitlement America, The Head Of A Household Of Four Making Minimum Wage Has More Disposable Income Than A Family Making $60,000 A Year

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Tonight's stunning financial piece de resistance comes from Wyatt Emerich of The Cleveland Current. In what is sure to inspire some serious ire among all those who once believed Ronald Reagan that it was the USSR that was the "Evil Empire", Emmerich analyzes disposable income and economic benefits among several key income classes and comes to the stunning (and verifiable) conclusion that "a one-parent family of three making $14,500 a year (minimum wage) has more disposable income than a family making $60,000 a year." And that excludes benefits from Supplemental Security Income disability checks. America is now a country which punishes those middle-class people who not only try to work hard, but avoid scamming the system. Not surprisingly, it is not only the richest and most audacious thieves that prosper - it is also the penny scammers at the very bottom of the economic ladder that rip off the middle class each and every day, courtesy of the world's most generous entitlement system. Perhaps if Reagan were alive today, he would wish to modify the object of his once legendary remark.

From Emmerich:

You can do as well working one week a month at minimum wage as you can working $60,000-a-year, full-time, high-stress job.

My chart tells the story. It is pretty much self-explanatory.

Stunning? Just do it yourself.

Almost all welfare programs have Web sites where you can call up "benefits calculators." Just plug in your income and family size and, presto, your benefits are automatically calculated.

The chart is quite revealing. A one-parent family of three making $14,500 a year (minimu wage) has more disposable income than a amily making $60,000 a year.

And if that wasn't enough, here is one that will blow your mind:

If the family provider works only one week a month at minimum wage, he or she makes 92 percent as much as a provider grossing $60,000 a year.

Ever wonder why Obama was so focused on health reform? It is so those who have no interest or ability in working, make as much as representatives of America's once exalted, and now merely endangered, middle class.

First of all, working one week a month, saves big-time on child care. But the real big-ticket item is Medicaid, which has minimal deductibles and copays. By working only one week a month at a minimum wage job, a provider is able to get total medical coverage for next to nothing.

Compare this to the family provider making $60,000 a year. A typical Mississippi family coverage would cost around $12,000, adding deductibles and copays adds an additional $4,500 or so to the bill. That's a huge hit.

There is a reason why a full time worker may not be too excited to learn there is little to show for doing the "right thing."

The full-time $60,000-a-year job is going to be much more demanding than woring one week a month at minimu wage. Presumably, the low-income parent will have more energy to attend to the various stresses of managing a household.

It gets even scarier if one assumes a little dishonesty is throwin in the equation.

If the one-week-a-month worker maintains an unreported cash-only job on the side, the deal gets better than a regular $60,000-a-year job.  In this scenario, you maintain a reportable, payroll deductible, low-income job for federal tax purposes. This allows you to easily establish your qualification for all these welfare programs. Then your black-market job gives you additional cash without interfering with your benefits. Some economists estimate there is one trillion in unreported income each year in the United States.

This really got me thinking. Just how much money could I get if I set out to deliberately scam the system? I soon realized that getting a low-paying minimum wage job would set the stage for far more welfare benefits than you could earn in a real job, if you were weilling to cheat. Even if you dodn't cheat, you could do almost as well working one week a month at minimum wage than busting a gut at a $60,000-a-year job. 

Now where it gets plainly out of control is if one throws in Supplemental Security Income.

SSI pays $8,088 per year for each "disabled" family member. A person can be deemed "disabled" if thy are totally lacking in the cultural and educational skills needed to be employable in the workforce.

If you add $24,262 a year for three disability checks, the lowest paid welfare family would now have far more take-home income than the $60,000-a-year family.

Best of all: being on welfare does not judge you if you are stupid enough not to take drugs all day, every day to make some sense out of this Mephistophelian tragicomedy known as living in the USA:

Most private workplaces require drug testing, but there is no drug testing to get welfare checks.

Alas, on America's way to to communist welfare, it has long since surpassed such bastions of capitalism as China:

The welfare system in communist China is far stringier. Those people have to work to eat.

We have been writing for over a year, how the very top of America's social order steals from the middle class each and every day. Now we finally know that the very bottom of the entitlement food chain also makes out like a bandit compared to that idiot American who actually works and pays their taxes. One can only also hope that in addition to seeing their disposable income be eaten away by a kleptocratic entitlement state, that the disappearing middle class is also selling off its weaponry. Because if it isn't, and if it finally decides it has had enough, the outcome will not be surprising at all: it will be the same old that has occurred in virtually every revolution in the history of the world to date.

h/t Nolsgrad

 


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Mon, 11/22/2010 - 01:20 | Link to Comment holmes
holmes's picture

This gaming of the system is BS but everyone is doing it including the middle class. How about the public sector union workers like Long Island RR workers. 95% of them wind up with disability pensions including those with a desk job. I think the doctor who signs off on these "medical conditions" retired with one himself.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 01:35 | Link to Comment bankonzhongguo
bankonzhongguo's picture

Sure its a rip-off, but no different than the big Corporations lobbying (writing) Congress for custom legislation and gaming the IRC, but also think of the untold numbers of illegals that have their (inflated and amorally priced) medical care for free also. 

But frankly the billions down those rat holes is nothing compared to the  trillions in Corporate Welfare handed out each and every year - we are financing two regional wars after all.  After all what is TARP, QE, POMO, ad nausea, never mind the untaxed billions in unpatriated Corporate profits from international operations?

Blame the poor for trying to get rich.

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 01:57 | Link to Comment Chupacabra
Chupacabra's picture

Yeah,because it's OK to steal so long as you're "poor" and don't take as much as an even bigger thief.  I see your point.  Brilliant logic, knucklehead.

And, yeah, I can blame someone for "trying to get rich" by being a deadbeat leech and gaming the system (in other words, stealing from others).  Hopefully somebody less fortunate pays a visit to your home soon, to get what they deserve.  I'm sure you'll turn the other cheek.  Hey, they're poor and just trying to get rich.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 03:22 | Link to Comment RichardP
RichardP's picture

What is your viewpoint on Corporate welfare?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 01:35 | Link to Comment GottaBKiddn
GottaBKiddn's picture

The lazy ignorant poor never went to Washington to bribe and lobby the congress so that they could take advantage of the system. They are being bought off precisely because they are crazy enough to do anything to strike out at the government. Highly unlike the stuffy yuppie-types who are so easily intimidated into behaving in order to save their cushy jobs. The same cushy jobs that are used to buy them off. You don't see any white-collar rebellion, while the wealthy rip off everyone in sight. Every downtown in America is buzzing with unabashed fraud, but the only complaining is done by unseen keyboards.

So let's see, if we kill off all the welfare recipients, everything will be wonderful?

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 01:57 | Link to Comment Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Wonderful? No

Improved? Yes

Id like to hang the banker fraud types also, but ignoring the everyday parasites because they steal less is hardly acceptable. They just lack the ambition to be bigger and even more socially useless theives. A leech isnt as dangerous as a giant vampire squid but still needs squashing.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 05:54 | Link to Comment fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

+1 billion

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 09:54 | Link to Comment dryam
dryam's picture

Fuck.

 

I'm a physician & my after tax income is about $145k.  I work hellacious hours in a very stressful work environment.  I work many holidays & weekends.  The work can be very stressful.  Now I hear I'm making 4.5x what someone who works one week a month at minimum wage makes who didn't have to go through and pay for 4 years of college, 4 years of med school, and 4 years of residency.

 

Fuck.  

 

This country so headed for the shitter.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:06 | Link to Comment Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

The outcome Doctor is you will work less. Rat races are useful if one can continue to benefit. Longer hours at less pay crushes productivity.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:30 | Link to Comment Trifecta Man
Trifecta Man's picture

First, take care of your health.  This includes going on vacations and doing destressing activities.  You should be cutting back on your schedule.  You don't want to burn yourself out and become long term unuseful.  You can't save everyone.  Save yourself first, so you can then continue to help others later.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:47 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

I am not surprised by this outburst.

If my Doctor cut back on HIS schedule then approximately... 20 people would not be working the hours they are used to working and the Patients will go to the ER to get the care they need in a already overloaded ER.

He does take time off. No appointments for two weeks several times a year. Everything else can wait. Those that cannot get shipped to ER.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 01:37 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I know people who audit the Federal systems and I've had former family members who've gamed the system their whole lives. The only reason it's not a great life is because of the people who loaf on the sytem are dysfunctional most or all of their lives. They've not had the stress and demands of $60k and $100k+ jobs and cannot appreciate the elegant points of being on the dole. Plus, many are morons and are kept that way through government "help".  As posters above have said the system doesn't care who's stealing as long as their paperwork's done correctly. That is exactly right. Let me introduce you to two concepts that I've been throwing around for a few years.

First, no government employee anywhere has a job to get you anything or do anything for you. They have one job and only one job and it is the same for everyone in every department (except the combat branches of the military). Their job is to execute government policy. So, you can be a total scammer and if the papers are all properly filled out, you get the money or benefit. Even if you have a legitimate claim but your papers are not in order...you get bubkiss. The only mistake the civil servant can make is breaking the rules to help you. They will be employed the next day whether you get what you need or you get nothing or even if someone is running a total scam. They will all be employed and get annual raises. This is why you should laugh or alternately yell at your TV when any politician left or right talks about eliminating waste and abuse. It cannot be done. You can only ask government to do or not to do. That's it. Once you create the service or benefit the circus begins. Then it gets worse.

Concept two: The actual tax rate in all socialized countries is actually 100%. Since the government owns all money through unlimited taxing ability and currency manipulation it is theirs for the taking and the distributing. The rich take it from the top through influence and the poor or scammers take it from the bottom in return for votes and TV clips, lol. Ask any modern statist-liberal what the max tax rate is and they cannot or will not answer it. It is because it is actually 100% and you only keep what they allow. In communism and hyperinflation they take it all. That is why they always look at GDP and the percentage taken by government taxes and other nonsense. You can only do those analyses if you assume the whole GDP is at your disposal meaning you can make a claim on 100% of the work that is out there. So, it is all theft in the end and you are forced to serve the purposes and needs of others without your consent. It may be the wealthy bankers getting bailed out or as documented here, even the "poor" who have no intention of working any harder if at all. This is socialism 101 and it is sold to us as good for us at least collectively. We've been sold and sold out for decades.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 02:02 | Link to Comment bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Oh god...this is about the best time to short the euro.

The stars are aligned. This is amazing.

I'm droppin'  a 10 note on this.

Lemme see a 1.36 on the eur/usd

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 01:48 | Link to Comment SlorgGamma
SlorgGamma's picture

Lies.

The problem with the US is not some single mom feeding her kids with foodstamps. The problem is that Wall Street plutocrats blew the biggest debt bubble in human history and then raped the taxpayer for a $14 trillion bailout.

The plutocrats WANT US TO FIGHT. They have one goal: keep the middle classes warring with the poor over a few nickels, so that a bunch of corrupt elites can steal trillions. They're going to use racism, sexism, immigrant-bashing, the Terror War, poverty-bashing, any lunatic ideology of hate they can to keep us fighting amongst ourselves.

Wall Street is the enemy, and ordinary Americans have to unite against the plutocrats to save their country. No unity, no salvation.

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 01:57 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

No, the problem is not with the Wall Street Plutocrats either.  The problem was never the receipt of goods from the government, the problem was the theft of said goods in the first place.  We have a system that is evil, and it causes people to act in an evil manner.  Google the Stanford Prison Experiment.  The behaviors that were observed were created by the system that was created in an improper manner (it did not respect natural rights).  Although individuals should be held accountable for their actions, that is a separate issue.  The real issue here is that the government has created this situation.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 04:31 | Link to Comment All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

the problem absolutely is the BIG Capital crowd.  you speak of "the system" as though nobody set up the system.  the BIG Capital crowd set up the system and it is a societal asset stripping system (think star trek movie creature).

check out "the secret of oz" and "debunking money" on youtube.

there is a war going on - BIG capital vs the rest of the world - and our *sses are getting kicked!

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 02:06 | Link to Comment Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Both are a problem.

The root cause is a corrupt and overpowered central authority that allows both to flourish.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 17:21 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

You are right. Both are a problem. The problem is that there is an enormous bloated unaccountable central government with unlimited power to distribute and redistribute wealth/goods/services/favors. This will not end well over time. All levels of society will try to steal from each other and essentially demand more than we are willing to produce. It is why socialism and powerful central governments will always fail. Always.

The absolute genius of the American Constitution was a severely limited central government and the idea that free individuals would chart their own course in life. America was incontrovertible proof of the power of freedom. We have traded it for monthly checks of one sort or another. We will get the corresponding results.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 04:25 | Link to Comment midtowng
midtowng's picture

You are right. But will anyone here listen?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 17:42 | Link to Comment Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

 He is right, and the enemy is a master of distraction and divide and conquer.

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 02:20 | Link to Comment mbouman
mbouman's picture

I knew a guy who really milked the system.  He ran up his credit cards with new furniture, large screen TV and all new tools for his business.  He then declared bankruptcy to wipe out his debt.  He collected $300 a week in food stamps and got free medical care for his whole family. He had a pool in his back yard and enough money to buy steaks for the grill whenever he had visitors over.  He ran a roofing business and got plenty of people to pay him cash.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 02:26 | Link to Comment Chupacabra
Chupacabra's picture

That guy deserves a good ass-kicking.  Or an anonymous call to the IRS . . . just sayin.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 02:26 | Link to Comment MurderNeverWasLove
MurderNeverWasLove's picture

I know if I type something in some box somewhere on the internet, then it will never likely never really go away. Artifacts.

Stories like this lead me to believe we are closer than ever to flipping the switch on a new monetary and taxation regime.  First all taxes have to be repealed and replaced by a single fee on transactions in US dollars.

My rate is .49%, so a dollar is tax-free. A penny on a two. Two on five, nickel on ten, dime on twenty, quarter on fifty, Kennedy half on a Bennie.

For every single time that some amount, counted in USD that trades hands (excluding CASH) has a fee that goes to support the monetary system.

If it was the worst idea in the world and the economy tanked by 50%, it would still bring in $10 Trillion in revenue.

http://www.pagetutor.com/trillion/index.html

Imagine ten of them. Our GNP is only $15 Trillion. No magic at all.

Except in breaking the spell of the way it has always been and everyone thought or were taught.

That's enough to send every citizen a check for $1200 a month.

Fund government at all levels at current budgets.

And still run trillions in surplus that would pay the debt off in a decade.

The mystification comes when people understand millions versus billions versus trillions versus quadrillions, which is what we have to use to count all the money changing hands in USD every year.

But most of it is the big players. Those who use the monetary infrastructure at the greatest scale, pay the most tax. Totally voluntary in that if you don't want to pay the tax, don't make the purchase.

Once the national debt is paid, we could cut the rate by half.

I keep the challenge open for anyone to prove my math wrong on this.

It is the only fair tax, because it doesn't discriminate against any class of transaction, nor does it give special treatment to any particular activity or purchase or investment. If you think it's what you want to do is use USDollars to transact some business, that costs half a percent fee to fund the system (and the government, too, incidentally).

You are paying into the income fund, which kicks out a base income for every man woman and child for the sole reason that they are beautiful human beings that are alive and among us on this planet.

Everyone gets a base wage no matter how worthless and lazy and self-destructive they may be. People who were only working to freaking pay for a place to stay while they worked on their masterpieces no longer are taking that job from someone who really wants one.

We do away with the minimum wage, and instead install a regime that simply pays poverty off. Cheaper than fighting crime, hunger, disease, urban decay and the whole nine.

And to make it fair, everyone gets it.

What would people do? You think some of them might go spend that money into the economy for things they want and need? Does that seem like a good stimulus package? Do you think that would help unemployment?

It is this sort of setup that scares the powers that be to their core. Because now wages are going to have to rise in a lot of cases because half the underpaid workforce just quit to just live on their check.

The rest are much happier, because they are no longer really all that afraid of losing their job. If they do, they at least know they'll have their citizen's dividend coming in every month. And lots of places are hiring in this environment.

The only inflation that I have found to be virtuous is the inflation that occurs when wages are rising.

Maybe they wouldn't rise. When the sum total of taxes that it costs to employ someone is .49%, then wages have room in current budgets to rise, or like the fair tax is talking about, giving the employer the discretion as to how to allocate that massive tax cut.

The industries hit the hardest by this alternative taxation method is those who move the most money.

But here's the sneaky thing. When I go buy a loaf of bread and pay my penny tax, just like sales tax, it was never the grocery store's money to begin with. They end up spending that penny when they make a deposit. When they pay the bakery who baked the bread, they have to pay that penny to that company. Maybe the bakery accepts an electronic transfer to the bank it uses that is in Oklahoma. The bank transfers that money, consolidated with other pennies paid in bread transactions to the baker's bank on an interbank transfer network.

This is where taxes are collected. There are very few of these networks, and they move a ton of money. One of those entities, incidentally, is the federal reserve, because they still have the check clearing framework. This is where the pennies are siphoned off to the treasury, to pay our dividend.

And it is the data from those networks that I use to make my calculations. The Bank of International Settlements publishes some very rough estimates of the volumes and values of transactions that occur over various digital networks.

The DTCC processes most securities, like stocks and bonds and foreign exchange transactions, over a quadrillion dollars worth a year. Their current fee for this service is like .0015% per transaction. Now it would be the never unpaid .49% plus their fee, with the treasury receiving the .49%.

Large interbank transfers are on the fed, or SWIFT. Very few entities handle nearly all the money at some point in time. Other entities could register an account with the treasury and set up a business running a payment network of some sort that used USD.

The volumes of dollars that these primary fat money pipes do every day is astounding. If Congress directed those entities to collect a .49% fee on every transaction, they could repeal all the other taxes and have more money in the treasury than they could possibly imagine.

We keep the federal reserve, but remove its power as the national debt enabler. Implement a 100% reserve requirement for all new lending. Those who want to earn a return on their money may invest in their bank's lending program. The current hegemony of pushing reserves up the pyramid is done. The reserves are held by the lending bank. They may no longer lend money they do not have (creating it out of thin air like they do now). The Fed no longer sets interest rates, because your local bank can do that.

The states could piggyback the same system and eliminate all their own taxes, pulling any funding that would normally come from the federal level before the fee hits the national treasury.

I have no idea whether I get anywhere with all this, because it seems a bit too good to be true. I can't say what all the various things the economy might do once the distortions of the current tax regime are no longer relevant.

There are a lot of transactions that are currently untaxed. Those are mainly in the financial sector. I couldn't think of a better bunch of bastards to dump a tiny little tax on than those folks. They would scream bloody murder and pull out all the stops on the propaganda channels and politicians they own. But they are sorely outnumbered, and after all, it's the fairest tax ever devised, only in recent times technologically possible, and nullifying the control-freak, social engineering weapon of tyranny that taxation has become.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 02:59 | Link to Comment Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

And, split North America into 30 or so sovereign nations.   All use gold backed currency,  which obviously enables easy trade among all.

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 04:17 | Link to Comment MurderNeverWasLove
MurderNeverWasLove's picture

3100 counties even better.

 

But I'd say that all fiat currencies are measured in gold.  Don't get gold all mucked up in the dirty business of fiat money.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:51 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

You cannot split the USA. Every state is reliant on another state for at least one something. Trade is necessary. Then the Nation must import and export to other nations what trade is boughten and paid for.

 

Everything else hurt my head reading, but once I understood it, it seems to be fair enough. USA debt free in 10 years.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 23:02 | Link to Comment MurderNeverWasLove
MurderNeverWasLove's picture

Not sure why you'd think "splitting the states" was part of my deal.

What hurt your head?  I had actually written this as a comment in reply to an R pimping the "fair" tax BS.  So would likely have written a little differently for the ZHers.

Wed, 11/24/2010 - 03:37 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Not so much as hurt my head, I am just a very simple person who had found that Wall Street and high finance to be a sort of a Shark Tank designed to seperate fools like me from thier money.

I remember a time when America was strong because anyone who graduated high school can get a industrial work doing something greater than themselves and earn really good payroll. But all of that has been systematically reduced to almost nothing while the rest of the world enriches themselves upon our growing poverty.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 03:16 | Link to Comment island
island's picture

I'd vote YES! 

Unfortunately our government, our economy, and our democracy have been captured by the financial and corporate elite and uber-rich, so any options that benefit "everyman" will never fly until the bastards are taken down.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 04:19 | Link to Comment MurderNeverWasLove
MurderNeverWasLove's picture

I'll let others worry about taking the bastards down.

 

If a dog will hunt, that bird will fly.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 09:55 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Sounds like a pretty good idea to me, but there's a bit of a problem.

But most of it is the big players. Those who use the monetary infrastructure at the greatest scale, pay the most tax.

Those are the folks who control the government, and they probably wouldn't much like the idea.  It's occasionally possible for great numbers of the poor/middle-class to unite behind an idea and exact some demands from the people who own the world, but it's a long slow process, and we haven't reached the level of public awareness quite yet.

Definitely a good idea to be spreading, though.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 23:14 | Link to Comment MurderNeverWasLove
MurderNeverWasLove's picture

Those are the folks who control the government, and they probably wouldn't much like the idea.

That's why I like it so much.  Cuts straight to the chase.  Pits the powers that be against the superior intellectual firepower of a relentless renaissance determined to enlighten this dark age.

 

brushfires in the minds. . .

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:49 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

Fund government at all levels at current budgets.

And still run trillions in surplus that would pay the debt off in a decade.

impossible in a debt-based monetary system. 

This scam is best explained by historian John Kenneth Galbraith, who states, "In numerous years following the war, the Federal Government ran a heavy surplus. It could not however pay off its debt, retire its securities, because to do so meant there would be no bonds to back the national bank notes. To pay off the debt was to destroy the money supply."

 http://truthinprophecy.com/fedreserve.php

your comment:

Implement a 100% reserve requirement for all new lending. Those who want to earn a return on their money may invest in their bank's lending program.

agreed, MNWL.

http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/how-do-we-arrive-eve-our-collapse-1

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 22:55 | Link to Comment MurderNeverWasLove
MurderNeverWasLove's picture

I did state that we had to prevent the government to borrow any more.

I never really got around to where the hell the currency comes from, what it is based on, whatever.  Stripping the money masters of their control over the expansion/contraction of money supply has to end.  We can phase it out by instructing the treasury to issue new dollars at a 1:1 ratio as federal debt is retired.

I think the most valuable commodity is life.  Therefore the money supply should be based on population.  Inflation of the money supply is all about how much life is it going to need to support?  In theory, there should be more than enough already, but if the base money supply consists of the (population * poverty-level) per annum, and it is simply siphoned off of the mass flows, both the flow and the money supply will grow to accommodate a new child.

Life dollars, valkyries (value of life currency) issued as FRN's are retired.  It wouldn't be a note, or a bill or any of those terms of dubious legal mysticism.  They would simply be dollars.  US dollars.  Not a claim on anything, not a debt.  A simple unit of account, like an hour, a volt, or a metric ton.

Read your forum post.  Agree almost entirely.  Not a fan of "backing" dollars.  Our fiat system is totally evil.  But it doesn't have to be.  Gold and silver and the like are still going to retain their value, regardless what silly fiat scheme happens to be operant.

 

I like your groove on competing monetary systems, too.  I think a population-based greenback is the least disruptive to start.  If we can't get rid of the debt money scheme we've suffered for so long, then states have to step in with their own greenback-like solution.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 12:35 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

agreed.  we both know the clear challenge to America and understand the general solutions.

However, there is a chance that we may be disrupting a much grander plan involving useful idiots and co-conspirators.  Of course, i am but one man who cannot be certain.  however, this does seem to play into an overall theme.

For example, Is Ireland the new Turkey?: 

Turkey's 'bailing out' by the IMF in 2001 allowed the IMF to gain more control.   I view this as probably the last step in a process. 

Before all of this, it was essential to create a fiat debt-based monetary system and perpetuate a major bond market in order to support a ponzi scheme welfare state and subsequent culture of dependency. When the inevitable collapse ensued, more power was consolidated and now indigenous Turkish people are further relieved of their wealth and property over time. The IMF, which is indirectly 'owned' by the ruling elite, enslaves Turkey under the guise of 'saving' Turkey.

Member countries of the IMF are able to direct activities via their Central Banks. For example, the biggest Central Bank, the private Federal Reserve Bank, is owned by its member banks who are owned by its shareholders who consist of large private multi-national banks whose shares are largely owned by limited liability companies whose shares are owned by an elite group of individuals including the Morgan's, Rothschild's, and Lazard's.

http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/whofed.html

Simple.

"The IMF sometimes advocates 'austerity programmes', increasing taxes even when the economy is weak, in order to generate government revenue and bring budgets closer to a balance, thus reducing budget deficits. Countries are often advised to lower their corporate tax rate. These policies were criticized by Joseph E. Stiglitz, former chief economist and Senior Vice President at the World Bank, in his book Globalization and Its Discontents. He argued that by converting to a more Monetarist approach, the fund no longer had a valid purpose, as it was designed to provide funds for countries to carry out Keynesian reflations, and that the IMF 'was not participating in a conspiracy, but it was reflecting the interests and ideology of the Western financial community'.

The IMF is for the most part controlled by the major Western Powers, with voting rights on the Executive board based on a quota derived from the relative size of a country in the global economy. Critics claim that the board rarely votes and passes issues contradicting the will of the US or Europeans, which combined represent the largest bloc of shareholders in the Fund."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Monetary_Fund

OTHER DEBT SLAVES:

"How Multinational Banks Supported Dictators in DR Congo, South Africa, the Philippines and Argentina.

The film asks whether it is fair that poor and innocent people in the world today have to repay the debts of former dictators.

The focus of this TV-documentary is the illegitimate debt in Argentina, South Africa, the Philippines, and DR Congo. The documentary looks behind local tourist attractions, and visits the poor neighborhoods of Buenos Aires and the depressing township of Johannesburg, where, where poor youngsters desperately seek jobs. The Journey ends in the slums of Manila.

The story highlights the sad fact that even when corrupt dictators and generals were committing the most horrifying human rights violations, the large banks of the world such as the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank were lining up to offer billion-dollar loans."

http://onebigtorrent.org/torrents/3614/The-Debt-of-Dictators-2005

I'M SEEING A PATTERN:

"These loans were conditional on structural adjustment policies, which required Jamaica to enact harsh economic reforms, including trade liberalization, privatization, and deregulation. However, the reforms were unsuccessful and left the country with $4.6 billion dollars in debt."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_and_Debt

 

...any idea who is next?

 

keep in mind, this also fits in well with the apparent "Protocol of the Learned Elders of Zion":

"Today I may tell you that our goal is now only a few steps off. There remains a small space to cross and the whole long path we have trodden is ready now to close its cycle of the Symbolic Snake. When this ring closes, all the States of Europe will be locked in its coil as in a powerful vice. What form of administrative rule can be given to communities in which corruption has penetrated everywhere, communities where riches are attained only by the clever surprise tactics of semi-swindling tricks; where looseness reigns: where morality is maintained by penal measures and harsh laws but not by voluntarily accepted principles: where the feelings towards faith and country are obligated by cosmopolitan convictions? What form of rule is to be given to these communities if not that despotism which I shall describe to you later? We shall create an intensified centralization of government in order to grip in our hands all the forces of the community. We shall be told that such a despotism as I speak of is not consistent with the progress of these days, but I will prove to you that it is. Capital, if it is to co-operate untrammeled, must be free to establish a monopoly of industry and trade: this is already being put in execution by an unseen hand in all quarters of the world. This freedom will give political force to those engaged in industry, and that will help to oppress the people. We shall soon begin to establish huge monopolies, reservoirs of colossal riches, upon which even large fortunes will depend to such an extent that they will go to the bottom together with the credit of the States on the day after the political smash. In every possible way we must develop the significance of our Super-Government by representing it as the Protector and Benefactor of all those who voluntarily submit to us. It is essential therefore for us at whatever cost to deprive them of their land. This object will be best attained by increasing the burdens upon landed property - in loading lands with debts. At the same time we must intensively patronize trade and industry, but, first and foremost, speculation, the part played by which is to provide a counterpoise to industry: the absence of speculative industry will multiply capital in private hands and will serve to restore agriculture by freeing the land from indebtedness to the land banks. What we want is that industry should drain off from the land both labor and capital and by means of speculation transfer into our hands all the money of the world, and thereby throw all the GOYIM into the ranks of the proletariat. Then the(y) will bow down before us, if for no other reason but to get the right to exist. They will be compelled to offer us international power of a nature that by its position will enable us without any violence gradually to absorb all the state forces of the the world and to form a Super-Government. The intensification of armaments, the increase of police forces - are all essential for the completion of the aforementioned plans. What we have to get at is that there should be in all the States of the world, besides ourselves, only the masses of the proletariat, a few millionaires devoted to our interests, police and soldiers. We count upon attracting all nations to the task of erecting the new fundamental structure, the project for which has been drawn up by us. This is why, before everything, it is indispensable for us to arm ourselves and to store up in ourselves that absolutely reckless audacity and irresistible might of the spirit which in the person of our active workers will break down all hindrances on our way. When we have accomplished our coup d'etat we shall say then to the various peoples: 'Everything has gone terribly badly, all have been worn out with suffering. We are destroying the causes of your torment - nationalities, frontiers, differences of coinages. You are at liberty, of course, to pronounce sentence upon us, but can it possibly be a just one if it is confirmed by you before your make any trial of what we are offering you?' Then the mob will exalt us and bear us up in their hands in a unanimous triumph of hopes and expectations. Voting, which we have made the instrument which will set us on the throne of the world by teaching even the very smallest units of members of the human race to vote by means of meetings and agreements of groups, will then have served its purposes and will play its part then for the last time by a unanimity of desire to make close acquaintance with us before condemning us. To secure this we must have everybody vote without distinction of classesand qualifications, in order to establish an absolute majority, which cannot be got from the educated propertied classes. In this way, by inculcating in all a sense of self-importance, we shall destroy the importance of the family and its educational value and remove the possibility of individual minds splitting off, for the mob, handled by us, will not let them come to the front nor even give them a hearing; it is accustomed to listen to us only who pay it for obedience and attention. In this way we shall create a blind, mighty force which will never be in a position to move in any direction without the guidance of our agents set at its head by us as leaders of the mob. The people will submit to this regime because it will know that upon these leaders will depend its earnings, gratifications and the receipt of all kinds of benefits. These schemes will not turn existing institutions upside down just yet. They will only effect changes in their economy and consequently in the whole combined movement of their progress, which will thus be directed along the paths laid down in our schemes. The reforms projected by us in the financial institutions and principles will be clothed by us in such forms as will alarm nobody. We shall point out the necessity of reforms in consequence of the disorderly darkness into which the(y) by their irregularities have plunged the finances. The first irregularity, as we shall point out, consists in their beginning with drawing up a single budget which year after year grows owing to the following cause: this budget is dragged out to half the year, then they demand a budget to put things right, and this they expend in three months, after which they ask for a supplementary budget, and all this ends with a liquidation budget. But, as the budget of the following year is drawn up in accordance with the sum of the total addition, the annual departure from the normal reaches as much as 50 per cent in a year, and so the annual budget is trebled in ten years. Thanks to such methods, allowed by the carelessness of the States, their treasuries are empty. The period of loans supervenes, and that has swallowed up remainders and brought all the States to bankruptcy."

 

(The United States was declared "bankrupt" at the Geneva Convention of 1929. [see 31 USC 5112, 5118, and 5119)

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion1.htm#Table%20of%20Contents

...again, I am just connecting dots and in deep wonder.  Sincerely, no offence to anyone here, but is there a chance that we are racially targeted by a select group of ruling elite?  I keep an open mind and am reminded of this quote:

 

"if you wish to know by whom you are ruled, ask who cannot be criticized."   

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/how-do-we-arrive-eve-our-collapse

 

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 21:48 | Link to Comment MurderNeverWasLove
MurderNeverWasLove's picture

...again, I am just connecting dots and in deep wonder. Sincerely, no offence to anyone here, but is there a chance that we are racially targeted by a select group of ruling elite? I keep an open mind and am reminded of this quote:

"if you wish to know by whom you are ruled, ask who cannot be criticized."

 The race-baiters and neo-crypto-eugenicists like to pretend that there is a race-component to nearly anything sufficiently contentious.  Even if that IS a component of the mindset of the enemy, these days it can do no good to fight fire with fire--just plays into the divide and conquer.  I don't believe any of it--what people do is what matters, not their genotype/phenotype.

 

Otherwise, yep, you found a pattern.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 13:45 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

mate, i am hardly 'race-baiting'.  frankly, i do not believe in race, as we are all cousins and of African origin within 30,000 years.  personally, i refuse labels of any kind.  however, that does not mean that others refuse labels.

http://www.suite101.com/content/the-true-meaning-of-race-a220244 

this "Protocol of the Elders of Zion" somewhat shocked me (hard to do), but makes sense with all of the other connecting dots. 


makes sense with a debt-based monetary system predestined for failure. 

the plan has been working famously well since monopoly control has been gained over 'legal tender' 100+ years ago. 

everything is progressing as planned in the federally-funded universities. women are forgoing children and competing directly with men for jobs, conveniently lowering the cost of labor in the process. 

the IMF has been established and third-world countries (jamaica), second-world countries (turkey), and now first-world countries (ireland) are being placed into the perpetual debt-slave system. 

our foreign policy supports land confiscation in Palestine with many Americans marching off to Muslim lands to die. 

obviously, there are plenty of freedom-loving Americans of Jewish origin who are being hurt by the possible underlying policy of this cartel as well. I keep an open mind that there may be powerful forces racially targeting me. 

again, this one makes too much sense as it relates to Bilderbergers and the like, along with our private Federal Reserve and extended International Banking Cartel which maintains its advantages over individual Americans with fiat money printing, front-running the 'welfare state' bond market, and fractional reserve counterfeiting. 

am i missing something? am i imagining all this? 

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 13:49 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_of_the_Elders_of_Zion

UPDATE:

"The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a fraudulent antisemitic text purporting to describe a Jewish plan to achieve global domination. The text was fabricated in the Russian Empire, and was first published in 1903. The text was translated into several languages and widely disseminated in the early part of the twentieth century."

apparently, 'NOT REAL', although still a damn good playbook for any global elitist who wishes to take over the world, and very, very fitting as well, even over 100 years later. ????

It does NOT escape me, however, that these papers were published before the treasonous secret planning (at Jekyll Island) and creation of the private Federal Reserve:


Planning of the Federal Reserve System 

At the end of November 1910, Senator Nelson W. Aldrich and Assistant Secretary of the Treasury Department A. Piatt Andrew, and 5 more of the country's leading financiers, who together represented about one-fourth of the world's wealth[citation needed], arrived at the Jekyll Island Club to discuss monetary policy and the banking system, an event led to the creation of the current Federal Reserve. According to the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta, the 1910 Jekyll Island meeting resulted in draft legislation for the creation of a U.S. central bank. Parts of this draft (the Aldrich plan) were incorporated into the 1913 Federal Reserve Act. On November 5 - 6, 2010, Ben Bernanke stayed on Jekyll Island to commemorate the 100-year anniversary of this original meeting.

Forbes magazine founder Bertie Charles Forbes wrote several years later:

Picture a party of the nation's greatest bankers stealing out of New York on a private railroad car under cover of darkness, stealthily riding hundred of miles South, embarking on a mysterious launch, sneaking onto an island deserted by all but a few servants, living there a full week under such rigid secrecy that the names of not one of them was once mentioned, lest the servants learn the identity and disclose to the world this strangest, most secret expedition in the history of American finance. I am not romancing; I am giving to the world, for the first time, the real story of how the famous Aldrich currency report, the foundation of our new currency system, was written... The utmost secrecy was enjoined upon all. The public must not glean a hint of what was to be done. Senator Aldrich notified each one to go quietly into a private car of which the railroad had received orders to draw up on an unfrequented platform. Off the party set. New York's ubiquitous reporters had been foiled... Nelson (Aldrich) had confided to Henry, Frank, Paul and Piatt that he was to keep them locked up at Jekyll Island, out of the rest of the world, until they had evolved and compiled a scientific currency system for the United States, the real birth of the present Federal Reserve System, the plan done on Jekyll Island in the conference with Paul, Frank and Henry... Warburg is the link that binds the Aldrich system and the present system together. He more than any one man has made the system possible as a working reality."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jekyll_Island

Importantly, consider that one decade after the private Federal Reserve gained monopoly control of 'legal tender' in 1913, its members expanded the US money supply by 62% creating the Roaring Twenties stock market bubble, then contracted the money supply by 32% prolonging the Great Depression. 

Also, it is not lost on me that this paper, "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", as fraudulent as it may be, was written long before the State of Israel was established by Great Britain in 1948. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine

Of course, American foreign policy to this day favors the State of Israel over Palestine. 

Finally, it is abundantly clear that the Federal Reserve Bank has caused the current prolonged boom, including the technology stock bubble and real estate bubble, by leaving 'interest rates' much too low for much too long. Further, it is very possible that we are on the brink of both hyper-inflation and subsequent currency collapse as a result of $Trillions of new private Federal Reserve Notes being brought into circulation. 

Also, it is clear that the very system designed under extreme secrecy at Jekyll Island is one destined always lead to a collapse since new Federal Reserve Notes may only be brought into public circulation by first issuing debt from our Treasury. When we understand that debt must be paid back with interest ( P = P + I), it becomes clear that this system can only continue with debt expanding exponentially for an indefinite amount of time. Obviously, this is impossible and I do not believe that this was lost by the conspirators at Jekyll Island. 

Finally, consider that we have paid owners of the Private Federal Reserve an interest rate on money since day one, which is a clear and consistent means to siphon wealth upwards from all aspects of our once-free economies. With this debt-based monetary system adopted word-wide by members of the "G-20" under the direction of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), it is no wonder why the number of debt-slaves is expanding exponentially under this system design. Coincidence?

http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/government_debt?fsrc=s

It is also clear that the next "progressive" step in this process is to consolidate under one global currency (special drawing rights) issued by the International Monetary Fund.

At this point, our last opportunities to restore liberty will be lost. 

...things that make one go hmmmmm, indeed.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 03:19 | Link to Comment bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

That eur/usd move was soooo hot

Added another 10 note short posish on the eur/usd...

Thank you sir may I have another...

I will spank ya

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 03:26 | Link to Comment island
island's picture

I'd also like to see an analysis for a single person.  Some of the benefits mentioned in the analysis are not available unless you have minor children -- e.g. Medicaid, TANF.

Why do we "reward" people who have children they cannot afford?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 04:21 | Link to Comment MurderNeverWasLove
MurderNeverWasLove's picture

Every child has just as much right to its life as you or I.

 

Daniel Patrick Moynihan taught us back in the sixties that the welfare state had the primary effect of breaking up families.

 

Broken families -->  easier to control.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:55 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

eliminating the need for family and increasing dependency on the State is by design. Additionally, a large welfare state increases the size of the bond market which enables front-running and other revenue generation by the International Banking Cartel.  Also, woman who work, along with gay couples who do not have children (stay in the workforce), increases the overall supply of 'educated' labor thus decreasing the costs.   

here is an interesting read:

"Today I may tell you that our goal is now only a few steps off. There remains a small space to cross and the whole long path we have trodden is ready now to close its cycle of the Symbolic Snake. When this ring closes, all the States of Europe will be locked in its coil as in a powerful vice. What form of administrative rule can be given to communities in which corruption has penetrated everywhere, communities where riches are attained only by the clever surprise tactics of semi-swindling tricks; where looseness reigns: where morality is maintained by penal measures and harsh laws but not by voluntarily accepted principles: where the feelings towards faith and country are obligated by cosmopolitan convictions? What form of rule is to be given to these communities if not that despotism which I shall describe to you later? We shall create an intensified centralization of government in order to grip in our hands all the forces of the community. We shall be told that such a despotism as I speak of is not consistent with the progress of these days, but I will prove to you that it is. Capital, if it is to co-operate untrammeled, must be free to establish a monopoly of industry and trade: this is already being put in execution by an unseen hand in all quarters of the world. This freedom will give political force to those engaged in industry, and that will help to oppress the people. We shall soon begin to establish huge monopolies, reservoirs of colossal riches, upon which even large fortunes will depend to such an extent that they will go to the bottom together with the credit of the States on the day after the political smash. In every possible way we must develop the significance of our Super-Government by representing it as the Protector and Benefactor of all those who voluntarily submit to us. It is essential therefore for us at whatever cost to deprive them of their land. This object will be best attained by increasing the burdens upon landed property - in loading lands with debts. At the same time we must intensively patronize trade and industry, but, first and foremost, speculation, the part played by which is to provide a counterpoise to industry: the absence of speculative industry will multiply capital in private hands and will serve to restore agriculture by freeing the land from indebtedness to the land banks. What we want is that industry should drain off from the land both labor and capital and by means of speculation transfer into our hands all the money of the world, and thereby throw all the GOYIM into the ranks of the proletariat. Then the(y) will bow down before us, if for no other reason but to get the right to exist. They will be compelled to offer us international power of a nature that by its position will enable us without any violence gradually to absorb all the state forces of the the world and to form a Super-Government. The intensification of armaments, the increase of police forces - are all essential for the completion of the aforementioned plans. What we have to get at is that there should be in all the States of the world, besides ourselves, only the masses of the proletariat, a few millionaires devoted to our interests, police and soldiers. We count upon attracting all nations to the task of erecting the new fundamental structure, the project for which has been drawn up by us. This is why, before everything, it is indispensable for us to arm ourselves and to store up in ourselves that absolutely reckless audacity and irresistible might of the spirit which in the person of our active workers will break down all hindrances on our way. When we have accomplished our coup d'etat we shall say then to the various peoples: 'Everything has gone terribly badly, all have been worn out with suffering. We are destroying the causes of your torment - nationalities, frontiers, differences of coinages. You are at liberty, of course, to pronounce sentence upon us, but can it possibly be a just one if it is confirmed by you before your make any trial of what we are offering you?' Then the mob will exalt us and bear us up in their hands in a unanimous triumph of hopes and expectations. Voting, which we have made the instrument which will set us on the throne of the world by teaching even the very smallest units of members of the human race to vote by means of meetings and agreements of groups, will then have served its purposes and will play its part then for the last time by a unanimity of desire to make close acquaintance with us before condemning us. To secure this we must have everybody vote without distinction of classesand qualifications, in order to establish an absolute majority, which cannot be got from the educated propertied classes. In this way, by inculcating in all a sense of self-importance, we shall destroy the importance of the family and its educational value and remove the possibility of individual minds splitting off, for the mob, handled by us, will not let them come to the front nor even give them a hearing; it is accustomed to listen to us only who pay it for obedience and attention. In this way we shall create a blind, mighty force which will never be in a position to move in any direction without the guidance of our agents set at its head by us as leaders of the mob. The people will submit to this regime because it will know that upon these leaders will depend its earnings, gratifications and the receipt of all kinds of benefits. These schemes will not turn existing institutions upside down just yet. They will only effect changes in their economy and consequently in the whole combined movement of their progress, which will thus be directed along the paths laid down in our schemes. The reforms projected by us in the financial institutions and principles will be clothed by us in such forms as will alarm nobody. We shall point out the necessity of reforms in consequence of the disorderly darkness into which the(y) by their irregularities have plunged the finances. The first irregularity, as we shall point out, consists in their beginning with drawing up a single budget which year after year grows owing to the following cause: this budget is dragged out to half the year, then they demand a budget to put things right, and this they expend in three months, after which they ask for a supplementary budget, and all this ends with a liquidation budget. But, as the budget of the following year is drawn up in accordance with the sum of the total addition, the annual departure from the normal reaches as much as 50 per cent in a year, and so the annual budget is trebled in ten years. Thanks to such methods, allowed by the carelessness of the States, their treasuries are empty. The period of loans supervenes, and that has swallowed up remainders and brought all the States to bankruptcy."

(The United States was declared "bankrupt" at the Geneva Convention of 1929. [see 31 USC 5112, 5118, and 5119)

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion1.htm#Table%20of%20Contents

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 00:10 | Link to Comment MurderNeverWasLove
MurderNeverWasLove's picture

In every possible way we must develop the significance of our Super-Government by representing it as the Protector and Benefactor of all those who voluntarily submit to us. It is essential therefore for us at whatever cost to deprive them of their land. This object will be best attained by increasing the burdens upon landed property - in loading lands with debts. At the same time we must intensively patronize trade and industry, but, first and foremost, speculation, the part played by which is to provide a counterpoise to industry: the absence of speculative industry will multiply capital in private hands and will serve to restore agriculture by freeing the land from indebtedness to the land banks. What we want is that industry should drain off from the land both labor and capital and by means of speculation transfer into our hands all the money of the world. . .

Money stolen?  Check.

They will bow down before us, if for no other reason but to get the right to exist. They will be compelled to offer us international power of a nature that by its position will enable us without any violence gradually to absorb all the state forces of the the world and to form a Super-Government. The intensification of armaments, the increase of police forces - are all essential for the completion of the aforementioned plans. What we have to get at is that there should be in all the States of the world, besides ourselves, only the masses of the proletariat, a few millionaires devoted to our interests, police and soldiers.

 

 95% complete.

 We count upon attracting all nations to the task of erecting the new fundamental structure, the project for which has been drawn up by us. This is why, before everything, it is indispensable for us to arm ourselves and to store up in ourselves that absolutely reckless audacity and irresistible might of the spirit which in the person of our active workers will break down all hindrances on our way.

Well, here are the weaknesses all laid out, but

"it is indispensable for us to arm ourselves and to store up in ourselves that absolutely reckless audacity and irresistible might of the spirit. . .[that will] will break down all hindrances on our way." --  this is the clue they are on the ropes, because I see this description more fitting those ready to fight for some real freedom, and not from the tools and trolls of the overlords.

They count on attracting all nations to their ideas, and have activists, psyops, police and wealthy partners in political crime -- failing, from 19+1 to failure in Copenhagen, to the mockery that is the UN.

The voting and mob mentality and enticed dependency, marginalizing the free-thinkers, cloaking the financial takeover so as not to arouse alarm, perpetual emergency budgets/borrowing. . .a document creepy on so many levels.

Think I'll write a little web form, where you can fill out a few fields and roll your own evil plan for world domination.  Take scissors to it like Jefferson channeling Burroughs would a Bible.

 

 

 

Wed, 11/24/2010 - 00:10 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

its definitely a creepy document.  i didn't ignore it just because it was probably originally posted by a neo-nazi.  i give it a fair and objective shot to stand on its own merit, and its got a spooky fit to the events of the past 100+ years.  

"For the first time in its history, Western Civilization is in danger of being destroyed internally by a corrupt, criminal ruling cabal which is centered around the Rockefeller interests, which include elements from the Morgan, Brown, Rothschild, Du Pont, Harriman, Kuhn-Loeb, and other groupings as well. This junta took control of the political, financial, and cultural life of America in the first two decades of the twentieth century."

- Carroll Quigley

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 13:56 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_of_the_Elders_of_Zion

UPDATE:

"The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a fraudulent antisemitic text purporting to describe a Jewish plan to achieve global domination. The text was fabricated in the Russian Empire, and was first published in 1903. The text was translated into several languages and widely disseminated in the early part of the twentieth century."

apparently, 'NOT REAL', although still a damn good playbook for any global elitist who wishes to take over the world, and very, very fitting as well, even over 100 years later. ????

It does NOT escape me, however, that these papers were published before the treasonous secret planning (at Jekyll Island) and creation of the private Federal Reserve:

Planning of the Federal Reserve System 

At the end of November 1910, Senator Nelson W. Aldrich and Assistant Secretary of the Treasury Department A. Piatt Andrew, and 5 more of the country's leading financiers, who together represented about one-fourth of the world's wealth[citation needed], arrived at the Jekyll Island Club to discuss monetary policy and the banking system, an event led to the creation of the current Federal Reserve. According to the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta, the 1910 Jekyll Island meeting resulted in draft legislation for the creation of a U.S. central bank. Parts of this draft (the Aldrich plan) were incorporated into the 1913 Federal Reserve Act. On November 5 - 6, 2010, Ben Bernanke stayed on Jekyll Island to commemorate the 100-year anniversary of this original meeting.

Forbes magazine founder Bertie Charles Forbes wrote several years later:

Picture a party of the nation's greatest bankers stealing out of New York on a private railroad car under cover of darkness, stealthily riding hundred of miles South, embarking on a mysterious launch, sneaking onto an island deserted by all but a few servants, living there a full week under such rigid secrecy that the names of not one of them was once mentioned, lest the servants learn the identity and disclose to the world this strangest, most secret expedition in the history of American finance. I am not romancing; I am giving to the world, for the first time, the real story of how the famous Aldrich currency report, the foundation of our new currency system, was written... The utmost secrecy was enjoined upon all. The public must not glean a hint of what was to be done. Senator Aldrich notified each one to go quietly into a private car of which the railroad had received orders to draw up on an unfrequented platform. Off the party set. New York's ubiquitous reporters had been foiled... Nelson (Aldrich) had confided to Henry, Frank, Paul and Piatt that he was to keep them locked up at Jekyll Island, out of the rest of the world, until they had evolved and compiled a scientific currency system for the United States, the real birth of the present Federal Reserve System, the plan done on Jekyll Island in the conference with Paul, Frank and Henry... Warburg is the link that binds the Aldrich system and the present system together. He more than any one man has made the system possible as a working reality."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jekyll_Island

Importantly, consider that one decade after the private Federal Reserve gained monopoly control of 'legal tender' in 1913, its members expanded the US money supply by 62% creating the Roaring Twenties stock market bubble, then contracted the money supply by 32% prolonging the Great Depression. 

Also, it is not lost on me that this paper, "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", as fraudulent as it may be, was written long before the State of Israel was established by Great Britain in 1948. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine

Of course, American foreign policy to this day favors the State of Israel over Palestine. 

Finally, it is abundantly clear that the Federal Reserve Bank has caused the current prolonged boom, including the technology stock bubble and real estate bubble, by leaving 'interest rates' much too low for much too long. Further, it is very possible that we are on the brink of both hyper-inflation and subsequent currency collapse as a result of $Trillions of new private Federal Reserve Notes being brought into circulation. 

Also, it is clear that the very system designed under extreme secrecy at Jekyll Island is one destined always lead to a collapse since new Federal Reserve Notes may only be brought into public circulation by first issuing debt from our Treasury. When we understand that debt must be paid back with interest ( P = P + I), it becomes clear that this system can only continue with debt expanding exponentially for an indefinite amount of time. Obviously, this is impossible and I do not believe that this was lost by the conspirators at Jekyll Island. 

Finally, consider that we have paid owners of the Private Federal Reserve an interest rate on money since day one, which is a clear and consistent means to siphon wealth upwards from all aspects of our once-free economies. With this debt-based monetary system adopted word-wide by members of the "G-20" under the direction of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), it is no wonder why the number of debt-slaves is expanding exponentially under this system design. Coincidence?

http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/government_debt?fsrc=s

It is also clear that the next "progressive" step in this process is to consolidate under one global currency (special drawing rights) issued by the International Monetary Fund.

At this point, our last opportunities to restore liberty will be lost. 

...things that make one go hmmmmm, indeed.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 03:31 | Link to Comment glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

lady owns a house behind me and she's classified as disabled. She's bilked the system out of thousands any way possible. she doesn't live there and doesn't pay taxes and rents it to someone else. got her lipo paid for on the system, got her food stamps for her son, who didn't live with her, and sold them. I could go on but you get the picture.

last year she sold the deduction for her son on taxes to someone.

just sayin...

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 03:31 | Link to Comment DisparityFlux
DisparityFlux's picture

One important relationship between the $60000/yr case and the others, not evident from the table, is the relative difference in personal freedom to dispense funds.  The person making $60000/yr has greater freedom in allocating their wages toward needs and wants.  However, a person on government subsidies has severe restrictions on where and on what the benefits can be spent.  Also, I believe most of the programs have some fairly stringent eligibility requirements, which if not enforced is merely indicative of government bureaucratic incompetence, similar to that demonstrated by our federal financial regulatory agencies.

And just what is the credit eligibility of a single parent with three kids making $14500 a year?  Do they qualify for any credit or loans, but say payday or ninja type with extremely onerous interest rates?  And what about purchasing a car?  Can they afford a new one with an extended warranty or are they forced to drive a 10 year old gas guzzling POS on a weekly payment plan, which is one breakdown from the junk yard and one week from being repossessed?  Can they live in a decent neighborhood with a low crime rate?  Are their kids ridiculed by others for having to wear used clothes from the Salvation Army or Goodwill because there is no way they can get revolving credit card accounts to shop at the trendy mall boutiques?  Are they constantly worried about losing their $14500/yr job because it's cheaper to hire two illegal aliens who will work for less than half their wage?

Yes, I know of people using every available government program just to keep their heads above water, and if you offered them a $60000 year job they would take it in second.

Yes, I'm sure you believe they have discovered the secret of being poor and happy, full of hope for a bright future for themselves and their children by scamming the system.

Exactly what is the cause and effect relationship between poverty and wasteful government spending?

Exactly how did poor people force the TBTF banks into reckless, high risk investments and exotic derivative schemes that have imploded, bringing about a potential global economic collapse?

By the way, have you been keeping up with all the MSM reports on the coming permanent two-tier wage systems which are bound to force more middle-class workers below the poverty level.  I'm sure those workers are praying Uncle Sugar doesn't get all austere when it's their turn to feed at the so called trough.

Which brings up the probable reason the article was published.  What is Mr. Emmerich's agenda and who are his patrons?

Welcome to the 21st century ant-hill, have you been assigned your place yet?

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 08:51 | Link to Comment Dan_Sylveste
Dan_Sylveste's picture

Credit eligibility? Clothes? Nice houses? You don't need those things to get high all day, dude...

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 03:40 | Link to Comment YHWH
YHWH's picture

Pray for the coming austerity to right these wrongs.

Maybe there's a benefit to eliminating all tax deductions, and lowering the overall rates?  Time to call your representatives and ask them to support the debt commission recommendations.  Wouldn't you be glad to see the EITC go?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 03:41 | Link to Comment Tell me lies
Tell me lies's picture

Just came across this. Sad but true.

 

Also, can we have tax relief for fathers current with their child support payments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOpyggmTmeE

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 03:53 | Link to Comment tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

this wealth redistribution is very suckass but on the other hand millions who want to work cannot do so for equally suckass reasons...is your solution to let them eat cake?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 03:58 | Link to Comment bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

HA!

I was .01 from being stopped out on my eur/usd trade....

I'm killin it now.

1.6 or BUST....BITCHEZ!!!!!!!!!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 04:03 | Link to Comment Convolved Man
Convolved Man's picture

Thanks for creating wealth.

Everything is proceeding as planned.

 

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 04:15 | Link to Comment bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

You're welcome

You do realize I'm on your side right?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 04:01 | Link to Comment dewhacker
dewhacker's picture

@MurderWasNeverLove

Probably the most constructive idea I've ever viewed from comments on this website.

@ZeroHedge

Probably the most disingenuous article I've read here.  I've been a long time reader, but you really have to be kidding me posting garbage like this.  Can you REALLY call food stamps disposable income?? Are you fucking joking me that NSLP falls under the same category?  You have to be out of your mind to think that gov't programs give a person making $14,500/yr more money in the pocket of someone making $60,000.  Yes, the welfare state is out of control, but if you're writing an article to change minds about state spending, maybe you shouldn't have borrowed the same bullshit accounting/statistical methods the BLS uses to pull numbers out of their ass.

All this article does is scapegoat the poor and reaffirm the unfounded beliefs that those on gov't handouts are living high on the hog off hard earned tax dollars.

 

I frequent this site mainly because the coverage of the financial crisis is so spot on, and they usually have the most bleeding edge analysis of the problems with our economy.  Please do us all a favor and remove this trash, all it's doing is giving the tea partiers a warm fuzzy feeling inside.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 04:04 | Link to Comment Eureka Springs
Eureka Springs's picture

The monster on that chart makes a strong case for single payer or tri care for all. Would dramatically reduce cost on low to no income folk... while doing the same and increasing net for mid to upper mid earners.

 

It's much cheaper to do the right thing.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 04:24 | Link to Comment midtowng
midtowng's picture

I'm going to file this one under "don't believe everything you read on the internet".

I've searched and searched and I can't find the original article. Also, it doesn't make sense since I've worked minimum wage and made about $60K a year, and my experience says otherwise.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 04:26 | Link to Comment bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

oooooooo

Spain is in troubleeeeeeee

Portugal is a foregone conclusion.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 04:48 | Link to Comment bingaling
bingaling's picture

I find articles like this to be ridiculous . It blames the poor when it is obvious from the chart that federal payroll taxes are the problem . Anybody who makes under 200k a year should be tax free except for federal property taxes . Have you ever seen what the top 5 percent of the top 1% makes? It is RIDICULOUS , the numbers are uncomprehensible. This is a taxation problem and could just as easily be spun to show that the uber rich don't pay their fair share not to mention the fact the largest corporations have failed to pay taxes in the last 20 years with record profits.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 06:08 | Link to Comment Incubus
Incubus's picture

These motherfuckers don't give a shit about who's stealing from them--as long as the person who's stealing from them is someone that's in a social position that they themselves aspire to be in. 

If you happen to be beneath them on the social ladder, then no-sir. You're better off dead, you're not worthy of anything.

 

And I can't wait until these 'Randian' type people get what's coming to them, bunch of ignorant pseudo-libertarians. Myopic little pigs, wallow in the mire a bit more. These people haven't a goddamned clue about how to improve a society, even if their lives depended on it, because they're all a bunch of money-mongering psychopathic sub-humans.

 

and the edit note:  and no, I won't be polite with my words: I don't hold in any esteem anyone's opinion of myself, at least not on this site. 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 08:12 | Link to Comment Slartibartfast
Slartibartfast's picture

The article is simplistic to the point of being absolute nonsense, and also illustrates the entire underlying problem with constructing such comparisons: mainly, that money/income defines quality of life, which it most certainly doesn't. There will be a vast chasm of a difference in quality of life between $14k on welfare and $60k in income...what you do or expect to achieve with that $60k is entirely up to you, whereas someone on welfare has virtually no options on where they live, etc.

You're right about those Randian overly simplistic types. Remember folks, Rand's biggest fan and total toady was Edward Greenspan, so tell us all how that worked out for ya? Alot of the problems we face today have been caused by the very same ''leave me alone to make money' types who just couldn't stop themselves from wanting more, and more, and more...and then laugh when the poor take the heat for it.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 09:13 | Link to Comment bingaling
bingaling's picture

I see where your coming from -without personal responsibility or a society which doesn't punish irresponsible people you cant have a free market especially where liability for personal responsibility is limited by a protective corporate structure . A person who does wrong against another and profits should not be considered a good businessperson but a parasite on society . I think you well ahead of the crowd on your thinking .

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 09:33 | Link to Comment Slartibartfast
Slartibartfast's picture

Adam Smith and his 'enlightened self interest' comes to mind. There's nothing wrong with pursuing wealth, but when it pollutes the town well, uses your neighbour's kids as labour and otherwise disregards society at large (on which your 'market' is based) then you've now joined the 'classe sterile'. Most of the financial sector falls into this class now. They produce nothing, contribute very little and often work in a polar opposite direction to what society needs. To be wealthy enough to pay tax was a ' badge of, not slavery, but liberty' in Smith's eyes. Large international corporations don't pay enough tax, full stop. Time to hammer them senseless.

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 09:50 | Link to Comment Implicit simplicit
Implicit simplicit's picture

Its alright to use your neighbors' kids; just make sure you pay them under the table. The parents and the kids will be happy.

 Many times child labor laws make no common sense; other times they are justified.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 08:31 | Link to Comment bingaling
bingaling's picture

"federal property taxes" should read just property taxes- for some reason I cant edit

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 05:15 | Link to Comment QEsucks
QEsucks's picture

 @London Banker. Sir, while I agree that there are any number of problems with our  

 system, I would point out that the 5 year cancer survival for all US males/ females 

 (not just those with pvt health insurance) significantly exceeds those of populations

 in Europe, Canada, and Great Britain with G.B. coming in dead last. No pun intended.

 This was pointed out by a countryman of yours in Lancet Oncology.2007.#8. 

 Delvecchia et al. It's a function of early diagnosis as well as myriad other factors.

 I believe Bruce Kasting made a critical observation about this with regard to his near

 fatal brush with anthrax, indicating he'd have been toast in any other venue. 

 I have extended family in Canada, London and Eastern Europe and it's been an 

 education to me regarding how many times we've had to provide or politely

 intervene in their care. Hope this helps.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 08:18 | Link to Comment Slartibartfast
Slartibartfast's picture

I live in Canada and the care has always been exemplary, both now and in the past. Sorry to hear about your family, but would I trade this for the big profit bureaucratic nightmare of US care? No freakin' way. And as for your stats, how the US is so successful with 5-year cancer survival rates, but so abysmal when it comes to infant mortality, is another question entirely.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:01 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

keep in mind that Canada's healthcare benefits from technological advances arrived at via a profit-driven system in America.

 

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649

 
Fact No. 1:  Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers.[1]  Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States, and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom.  Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. and 457 percent higher in Norway.  The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.
 
Fact No. 2:  Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians.[2]  Breast cancer mortality is 9 percent higher, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher and colon cancer mortality among men is about 10 percent higher than in the United States.
 
Fact No. 3:  Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries.[3]  Some 56 percent of Americans who could benefit are taking statins, which reduce cholesterol and protect against heart disease.  By comparison, of those patients who could benefit from these drugs, only 36 percent of the Dutch, 29 percent of the Swiss, 26 percent of Germans, 23 percent of Britons and 17 percent of Italians receive them. 
 
 Fact No. 4:  Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians.[4]  Take the proportion of the appropriate-age population groups who have received recommended tests for breast, cervical, prostate and colon cancer:

  • Nine of 10 middle-aged American women (89 percent) have had a mammogram, compared to less than three-fourths of Canadians (72 percent).
  • Nearly all American women (96 percent) have had a pap smear, compared to less than 90 percent of Canadians.
  • More than half of American men (54 percent) have had a PSA test, compared to less than 1 in 6 Canadians (16 percent).
  • Nearly one-third of Americans (30 percent) have had a colonoscopy, compared with less than 1 in 20 Canadians (5 percent).

Fact No. 5:  Lower income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians.  Twice as many American seniors with below-median incomes self-report "excellent" health compared to Canadian seniors (11.7 percent versus 5.8 percent).  Conversely, white Canadian young adults with below-median incomes are 20 percent more likely than lower income Americans to describe their health as "fair or poor."[5]
 
Fact No. 6:  Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the U.K.  Canadian and British patients wait about twice as long - sometimes more than a year - to see a specialist, to have elective surgery like hip replacements or to get radiation treatment for cancer.[6]  All told, 827,429 people are waiting for some type of procedure in Canada.[7]  In England, nearly 1.8 million people are waiting for a hospital admission or outpatient treatment.[8]
 
Fact No. 7:  People in countries with more government control of health care are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed.   More than 70 percent of German, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand and British adults say their health system needs either "fundamental change" or "complete rebuilding."[9]
 
Fact No. 8:  Americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than Canadians.  When asked about their own health care instead of the "health care system," more than half of Americans (51.3 percent) are very satisfied with their health care services, compared to only 41.5 percent of Canadians; a lower proportion of Americans are dissatisfied (6.8 percent) than Canadians (8.5 percent).[10]
 
Fact No. 9:  Americans have much better access to important new technologies like medical imaging than patients in Canada or the U.K.  Maligned as a waste by economists and policymakers naïve to actual medical practice, an overwhelming majority of leading American physicians identified computerized tomography (CT) and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) as the most important medical innovations for improving patient care during the previous decade.[11]  [See the table.]  The United States has 34 CT scanners per million Americans, compared to 12 in Canada and eight in Britain.  The United States has nearly 27 MRI machines per million compared to about 6 per million in Canada and Britain.[12] 
 
Fact No. 10:  Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations.[13]  The top five U.S. hospitals conduct more clinical trials than all the hospitals in any other single developed country.[14]  Since the mid-1970s, the Nobel Prize in medicine or physiology has gone to American residents more often than recipients from all other countries combined.[15]  In only five of the past 34 years did a scientist living in America not win or share in the prize.   Most important recent medical innovations were developed in the United States.[16]  [See the table.]
 

statistics from a survey by the United Nations International Health Organization:

 Percentage of men and women who survived a cancer five years  
 after diagnosis:
 
  U.S.              65%
  England        46%
  Canada         42%
 
 Percentage of patients diagnosed with diabetes who received  
 treatment within six months:
 
  U.S.              93%
  England        15%
  Canada         43%
 
 Percentage of seniors needing hip replacement who received it  
 within six months:
 
  U.S.              90%
  England        15%
  Canada         43%
 
 Percentage referred to a medical specialist who see one within  
 one month:
 
  U.S.              77%
  England        40%
  Canada         43%
 
 Number of MRI scanners (a prime diagnostic tool) per million people:
 
  U.S.              71
  England        14
  Canada         18
 
 Percentage of seniors (65+), with low income, who say they are in  
 "excellent health":
 
  U.S.              12%
  England        2%
  Canada         6%

Tue, 11/30/2010 - 21:56 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Facts one through 4 don't apply.

The VA saved my wife and gave us a few good years. We take each day as it comes.

If we did not have anything and were just private citizens, we would simply call Hospice to manage the pain in the last days and bury after.

Fact number 9- I have had MRI for 16,000 dollars to do a scan plus another few thousand dollars billed for the CT and regular Xrays all billed to insurance.

They paid a little bit, what was due to me was just short of bankrupcy.

I will NEVER go through another scan like that again no matter what. I choose a good doctor who knows what he is doing and will do the best he can.

One of my eye surgeons actually has NO computers in sight. Just straight from the late 1950's in his eye office with everything textbook based and his experience along with all the lenses and tools manually ready to go neatly organized.

THAT surgeon actually diagnosed and proved via blood tests two conditions I must deal with. A second eye surgeon used that information and his modern technology to fix it and make me effective with sight again instead of legally blind unable to contribute to society.

Number 10.

We don't know nothing about research. However VA likes to offer Vets an oppertunity to accept a treatment that is called research to seek a better solution. Spouse usually rejects such offers. She is not a Guniea pig.

 

Bottom line, we cannot afford to be going to these fine multibillion dollar trauma centers and special centers for cancer or whatever else that sprouts like weeds all over. Our own hospital actually indicated to all employees yesterday that within two years there is a good chance that they will have to close down and sell it all off.

 

They are making less now they they did 20 years ago and the new laws coming this year and the next 5 years forced cuts so deep and created a patient population unable to pay a penny for anything so. The Hospital is effectively finished.

 

What I can offer you is a good doctor in several fields that can help you for a certain amount of cash per hour of his time plus the costs of dressings and medicines.

 

Or I can break out my Civil War era Surgeon Kit and try to fix your broken arm myself someday.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 05:33 | Link to Comment flaunt
flaunt's picture

Fuck the government.  That is all.

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 05:36 | Link to Comment frenchie
frenchie's picture

lol

we have this in France since years !

good luck...

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 05:39 | Link to Comment gloomboomdoom
gloomboomdoom's picture

Go ahead, bring them to me up front. When you hit *it* really feel that anger pulsate through your veins. Lets see if we can get 15+. Being dead wrong about economics for so long is really a tough a bitter pill to swallow. So bring that hate to me. You got it yet?

I am ready to debate. This is Alpha Male club, no? We can hide behind Avatar's until the sheet isn't cute anymore.

I will probably be banned because my opinion is not popular, but then again it could be worse just like you folk talk about everyday.

Nothing is coming guys! k? Death and Taxes are inevitable just like always have been.

The history books will not agree with you. Unfortunately, this is news you folks aren't comfortable hearing- just yet. This behavior and constant GLOOM is really quite unhealthy. Don't turn into this guy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWIenEil1fc

Sell your Gold. Then can backspace on their computer just as quickly as they can enter them in. Don't be holding the cards for these guys yet again! sometimes it gets hard to remain sympatheic to any of these "causes". They die as quickly as they start.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 05:59 | Link to Comment Ace
Ace's picture

Just another sign that collapse is on the way.

Things that can't continue forever, don't.

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 06:17 | Link to Comment sabra1
sabra1's picture

it's only a benefit if you use it!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 06:25 | Link to Comment Kyron95131
Kyron95131's picture

 

 

 

This table fails to take into account how flawed our income tax system is and how easy it is to get around... but you wont need to explain that to someone whom can employee a resourceful CPA to do your taxes...

 

One of the greatest anthropological discoveries of the modern age was that poor people pay their debts... most other mechanisms of American capitalism have been built around the exploitation of that mechanic...

 

 

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 06:30 | Link to Comment anvILL
anvILL's picture

Creating incentives for single mothers to make more kids into a country where healthcare is so inefficient so that the kids won't be able to live long.
In addition, if I was a girl born from a mother like that, I would probably make the same kind of living after I pass 18.
What a great idea for a sustainable country and a wonderful lifestyle.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 08:59 | Link to Comment Dan_Sylveste
Dan_Sylveste's picture

Mothers vote. Put starving children on TV and ALL mothers will vote to 'stop it' by any means _apart_ from taking the children away from their mothers.

It is not stoppable.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 06:27 | Link to Comment anvILL
anvILL's picture

double post

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 06:42 | Link to Comment vxpatel
vxpatel's picture

You want good news?

Sarah Palin's Alaska has record ratings!
AND
The Pope has said his priests can moonlight as TSA screeners!

DRILL BABY DRILL!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 06:54 | Link to Comment iota
iota's picture

Divide et Impera

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 07:03 | Link to Comment Djirk
Djirk's picture

if they test drugs on you in private employment and do not on welfare, you save a lot on entertainment.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 07:05 | Link to Comment GoldbugVariation
GoldbugVariation's picture

The example does not even show every cost incurred by the full-time worker.  It misses out the cost of retirement planning (you would be expected to finance this out of your $60,000 a year salary), also the costs of travel to work.  Plus, there are plenty of other small differences - commercial and public entitities which offer discounts or subsidies to the "low income" family.

The situation is similar in the UK where I live.  I haven't done the maths, but it will be a similar picture apart from the medical costs (we have free public healthcare here in the UK).  There is a more fundamental truth here, which is that the hard-working middle class is being screwed everywhere.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 07:04 | Link to Comment Chappaquiddick
Chappaquiddick's picture

"Divide and conquer, anyone?" said Hitler

[Lots of hands go up]

"Yes, you!" [Hitler points at Himmler]

"The Jews and the gypsies???" said Himmler

"What an excellent idea, Himmler.  Give yourself a star!" said Hitler.

And then the fun started......

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 07:20 | Link to Comment doomandbloom
doomandbloom's picture

To maintain the pyramid, it is necessary to for the top guys to entertain the bottom feeders by fleecing the middle class.

The bottom guys are a huge vote bank which helps maintain the system.

Good luck, trying to change, as now the battle will need to be opened on two fronts.

This is a very similar case in UK, where benefits scam have been going for years and run into Billions of £. Govt is now trying to get these people on minimum wage, but it seems that they earn more in benefits (!!!), so what is the incentive?

Welcome to Socio-Capitalism...the dark side.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 07:50 | Link to Comment anony
anony's picture

Precisely.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 07:21 | Link to Comment Lost My Shorts
Lost My Shorts's picture

The analysis is bogus because Medicaid, which makes up more than half of the poor person's take, is not "disposable income" or cash.  In fact, the $60K family has more than 2x the cash to spend as the part-time slacker.  Also, the $60K family might have health insurance as a benefit which is omitted from the calculation; and their health insurance if present is a log cushier than Medicaid, where patients are not accepted at many places and must settle for long waits and bare bones service.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 07:49 | Link to Comment anony
anony's picture

Health insurance for me is paid for with after tax income, ma'am.

THAT is disposable income, mi amigo---MY disposable income, which I am happy to part with to secure a bulwark against catastrophe.

So your analysis is only partly, very partyly correct.  The people I know, my own niece and her husband  and 2 children have only one inconvenience in life: IF they need medical care they have to wait a bit for it.

That is a very small price to pay for having to do absolutely nothing but eat, shit, pray and play.

The blood suckers at the top and bottom of the economic ladder are putting the vise on the middle classes, just as the post says.

It's interesting (and humiliating to you) that you think health insurance, paid for by the patient, is less deserving of one's disposable income than one's, say, car payment, cell phone, cable/satellite feed, food, clothing, and shelter.

Talk about fucked up priorities.

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 07:47 | Link to Comment bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

here weeeeeeee goooooo on the eur/usd

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 08:00 | Link to Comment Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

I love all of the strawmen being built as a rebuttal to Tyler's article.

 

How about addressing the fvcking problem instead of attacking the messenger or creating unrelated arguments?

 

End the entitlements, restore freedom and accountability, make America great again.

 

It really is that simple.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 08:02 | Link to Comment bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

k...

Closed...done sir done.

Have fun gentleman.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 08:22 | Link to Comment cjbosk
cjbosk's picture

Great post and yes, it's disgusting at best but the middle class got what they asked for, Obamination!  The middle class will be extinct in short order and oddly enough, most people that voted for "change" were the middle classers that loved the eloquint little brutha from the most corrupt political system on the planet. 

We tried entitlements in housing (thanks Barney), hey...how's that working out for us people!  This too will end badly.  And I see the left wing nut jobs posting above about the right to health care et. al.  ARe you kidding me, what... is the right to food and water next?

I've got a reform idea: Congressional Reform, that's what we need now more than ever. 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 08:24 | Link to Comment moneymutt
moneymutt's picture

Am I missing something or are the medicaid health benefits counted at disposable income? Great benefit, but not exactly disposable income. Guy makin 60k may or may not be getting that from job.

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 08:29 | Link to Comment Jason T
Jason T's picture

I knew it!!! I always stated how in NY, if Dad works at home depot, makes less than $28k a year, gets $668 a month in food stamps for family of 4.  Fucking Crazy!!!  

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 08:42 | Link to Comment primefool
primefool's picture

OK by me if it reduces crime. I mean if the guys making 5000/yr or whatever are kept happy by the govt., smirking at their good fortune in makingh a higher disposable income than your average engineer - goodanya. Just stay off my property.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 08:50 | Link to Comment max2205
max2205's picture

I want the 15 min back that I wasted reading All these posts

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 09:15 | Link to Comment ReeferMac
ReeferMac's picture

ROTFLMAO!!!!

Yeah, me too!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 09:38 | Link to Comment Implicit simplicit
Implicit simplicit's picture

Time is food stamps, oh, I mean money.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 09:04 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

YOU'VE GOT TO LOVE THE SOCIALIST STATES OF AMERICA BITCHEZ!!

LONG LIVE THE SSA!!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 09:15 | Link to Comment the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

All the makings of a successful civilization... haha

 

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 09:36 | Link to Comment barroter
barroter's picture

Life is wonderful at the bottom of the barrel?  Living in high crime neighborhood the goal in life?  I dind't know the poor had it made. 

When the mob gets angry, make sure to divert their revenge at the weakest part of society.  NEVER be angry at the rich! 

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 09:38 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

Good old divide and conquer. 

It gets even scarier if one assumes a little dishonesty is throwin in the equation.

This little "piece de resistance" is the most dishonest pretense of an analysis I've ever seen.  But then, I only know how the system really works . . . I spend no time reading bitterly twisted propoganda. 

You can get social security disability for being culturally and educationally deprived?  False.  That is, word for word, explicitly grounds against a "disability." 

I'm not going to bother refuting this garbage on a point by point basis.  I see, surprisingly enough, that the first few commentors took its absurdity to task.  Anyone who didn't is almost certainly somebody who revels in his/her hatefully envious ignorance, something I've invariably found impervious to rational thought based upon facts.

 

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 10:14 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Why so serious, Bob?

There's a large segment of the readership just looking for an excuse to vent.  They're miserable people--it's not about the politics or the morality.  So this is just another excuse.  If even just ONE of those folks decides to go partake of poverty for awhile, it benefits someone else out there who is personally motivated to go get a job, despite the "great rewards" inherent in a life of crushing poverty and squalor.

(The nice thing about this place is you can pretty easily identify the posters who've actually been through some shit.)

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 10:46 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

Actually, I should be taking a more positive view of this.  In spite of the energy put forth by the haters, it is truly redeeming to see that in this audience there is a great deal of both common sense and compassion.  After all, virtually everyone here could argue for the eugenic "solution."

All the more impressive given the exhaustive testimony of all the folks who feel compelled to stir the pot with examples both real and fictional of how the system is gamed by the few. 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:32 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

and in these comments, you guys make the assumption that everyone who disagrees the current welfare system is selfish & not compassionate & has never experienced poverty.

sorry but this is not the case.   the point some of us are trying to make the current welfare system IS NOT WORKING the way that it should be.

would you like to come to NYC and take a field trip up to the South Bronx (the poorest congressional district in the nation) with me and find out ?   find out how difficult it is to find any sort of funding whatsoever to help teach kids how to grow their own food so they don't have to be dependent on food stamps?   find out how all difficult it is to get access to a plot of land that has been discarded for a decade to use to make a community garden?

what happened to christ's parable, teach a man to fish?   where's the incentive to learn how to fish in the current system?  the only incentive to better oneself is to go into debt or stay in your house, make babies and collect bennies.   just as long as they consume, consume, consume like good little GDP slaves.

i would argue that those who argue for the current welfare system AS IT EXISTS from federal to local are as uncompassionate & selfish as those who argue that it's every man for himself.   they just want to make themselves feel good by thinking they're helping the little people but not raising a god damned finger to do so.  

"the government's taking care of it for me."

until folks are willing to come to grips with both sides of the argument with an attitude of constructive change, we will all continue to live in the worst of both worlds.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 17:59 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

you guys make the assumption that everyone who disagrees the current welfare system is selfish & not compassionate & has never experienced poverty.

Well, I won't speak for Bob, but for sure that's not true of me, tip, hell no.  *I* disagree like hell with the current welfare system.  And in fact, if you're paying attention to what I write, you'll note I'm pretty careful to specify that it's SOME of the voices here.

Just have a look at this stuff.  There are far more hate-filled "guns & gold" bullshit macho posters than there are folks talking seriously about the issue.  Post a single word in favor of any form of social safety net and you'll attract a half-dozen replies (to use the term loosely) from folks calling you a Marxist.  The name-calling doesn't bother me, but it sure doesn't advance a discussion or even communicate a clear idea.  Can these guys do better, or what?

Someone else summarized it pretty well earlier today: the economy is largely controlled by forces which have created structurally high unemployment.  This is by design.  People are not out of work because they're lazy.  They're out of work because our policies create high unemployment.

Hating the idea that the government sends out checks doesn't contribute anything.  Start thinking about how to address the issue of structurally high unemployment.

Wed, 11/24/2010 - 18:28 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

You present my position well enough.  Basically, condemnation of the unproductive class seems to rest upon the notion that the lack of workers is created by a lack of people looking for jobs.  Absurd on its face. 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 10:02 | Link to Comment CitizenPete
CitizenPete's picture

"Not surprisingly, it is not only the richest and most audacious thieves that prosper - it is also the penny scammers at the very bottom of the economic ladder that rip off the middle class each and every day, courtesy of the world's most generous entitlement system. "

 

Ever been to Holland?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 10:11 | Link to Comment Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

In all fainess, if the author is going to include the healthcare benefit entitlement for the low wage earner, he should also include the employer provided healthcare benefit for the high wage earner. How many people working a $60,000 job get some sort of employer provided health insurance? Tax free, of course, but that's another issue.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 10:16 | Link to Comment ella
ella's picture

1.  Not all low income families have subsidies form Section 8 because the funding for Section 8 is finite.  Most jurisdictions have multi-year waiting lists for Section 8.  When the lists are opened, only a finite number of applications are taken and placed on the waiting lists.

2.  Section 8 recipients do not qualify for the utility subsidy you attribute to them because they are receiving Section 8 benefits.  They receive a small utility subsidy, for example one gas or electric payment a year.

3.  Most families do not have SSI for their children.  It is a minority of Section 8 recipients that receive this benefit. The child must be disabled for SSI.

4.  Medicaid is also a limited program, and not available to all Section 8 recipients.  

Your argument seems to be based on the fallacy that all Section 8 recipients receive numerous other benefits.  This is simply not true.  Anyone with knowledge of Section 8 understands the fallacy with your presentation.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 10:17 | Link to Comment Oquities
Oquities's picture

i know people who:

have 5 kids who get health ins. for all for $100/yr each while previous husband does not pay child support

have called an ambulance 50 times for delivery to hospital for minor issues

receive disability for alcoholism

destroyed their own lungs with cigarettes and now receive ss disability, but still golf and smoke

dump out soda cans to quickly get deposit refunds for cigs

use medicare for not much more than sustaining their vicoden/xanax habit

become serially unemployed to get rolling unemployment comp

quit giving charity to "needy" families after seeing them live with more i-pods, smart phones and HDTVs than the givers

use food stamp scams to buy liquor, cigs, drugs, etc.

use their child's disability check (dad's disabled by choice) for travel hockey and private school

eat candy and drink beer on disability while waiting for their next diabetic leg to be amputated

get section 8 assistance and ss disability while working for dad off the books

i know people who could be wealthy if they used this same creativity in a productive capacity but will not as long as they can milk the gov titty

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 10:36 | Link to Comment ella
ella's picture

Then contact your local Housing Authority and report them, then contact your local SS office and report them.  Do the same with your state agencies.  And guess what, they will investigate and terminate them from the programs if they are cheating in the manor you claim.
 
I know hearing officers that routinely hear cases of program violations.  The housing authority wins 95%+ of the cases they bring. The law is very strict when it comes to violations. 

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 00:30 | Link to Comment MurderNeverWasLove
MurderNeverWasLove's picture

You should work for them, ella.  You have that authoritarian control-freak tattle tail thing going really well.  Amazing how 99.9%+ of cases against the banksters are not even brought, and 95%+ of the ones that are end in some sort of BS, token settlement.

HELLO, We're in class here!  Did you fall asleep again?

Wed, 12/01/2010 - 06:29 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

I will defend Ella and say that she is correct.

One phone call to each of the agencies involved with a name and address of the suspected fraud, and the agencies will move heaven and earth to shine sunshine onto the case in question and decide very quickly how to deal with it.

 

I used to see shows on TV where people claimed to have hurt the back working, collecting benefits and were caught on Investigator's camera hauling plywood up a ladder to a roofing frame.

 

Busted. Class dismissed.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 10:24 | Link to Comment ella
ella's picture
PS TANF is time limited. "What time limits are imposed for TANF benefits

An eligible family that includes an adult in the TANF assistance unit may receive TANF for no more than 60 months lifetime benefits unless they meet certain exceptions.   Also, no benefits will be paid if the TANF parent or needy caretaker relative is not participating in an approved work activity after being determined "work ready", or no longer than 24 months (within the 60 month lifetime maximum), whether or not consecutive, after receiving benefits, whichever comes first."  http://www.mdhs.state.ms.us/ea_tanf.html

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 00:32 | Link to Comment MurderNeverWasLove
MurderNeverWasLove's picture

I'm sorry.  You DO work for them.  Sorry you seem to have so much of your brain tied up in this ridiculous system.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 10:55 | Link to Comment Abraham Snake
Abraham Snake's picture

$60,000 is the new minimal wage. $60,000 is no longer a middle class wage. You see, social support is designed to bring the bottom tier of earners into minimal sustainability, not bring them into the ranks of the so called middle class, thus logic would indicate $60,000 is now closer to minimal class.

Inflation has already decimated the middle class. The new start of middle class income is probably closer to $120,000, which is more typical of entry level doctors, dentists, and lawyers. That's why this country is economically falling apart, the abuse of our fiat currency. We haven't seen it because the misdirection has been so damn effective.

There is plenty of anger toward the entitlements of the underclass. A typical response might be, "How dare those layabouts be so easily handed my hard earned economic tier position." But the anger is misdirected, the better response is, "How dare our government so easily perpetuate high order fraud to inflate my currency and destroy my hard earned economic tier."

The lower economic tiers are not responsible for these high order frauds, it's the systemically corrupt government to be blamed. And if you added up all the nickle and dime frauds of of the lower economic tiers, you would have totaled a few tens of billions, not the trillions or quadrillions in fraud perpetuated by the upper levels.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:05 | Link to Comment ella
ella's picture

The low tax rates, government give-a-ways and insufficient regulation on the wealthy amount to nothing less than entitlements of the wealthy class.   You can find the details here " Free Lunch: How the Wealthiest Americans Enrich Themselves at Government Expense (and Stick You with the Bill)

 

http://www.amazon.com/Free-Lunch-Wealthiest-Themselves-Government/dp/159...

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:34 | Link to Comment Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

A few more factors to consider:

1) The $60K worker commutes to work and must pay for transportation

2) The kids of the $14K earner are eligible for many benefits: reduced tuition, tutoring, enrichment programs, camps etc.

3) The $60K worker is away from home 10 hours a day

4) The $60K worker probably is paying off student loans

All this is fine if the rich are taxed to pay for it.  They are not.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:37 | Link to Comment the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

1) some companies provide van service, expense accounts, company cars. None of that working at Burger King. You take the bus homie, or you walk.

2) the kids of the 14K earner are stuck in dead end classes and schools. My old HS is 90% poor Latinos. If you have money, you can transfer to a better school, a magnet school. If you're poor, you get a poor persons education, you have to go to school with drug dealers and gang bangers.

3) the worker who is away from home 10 hours a day is quite happy with not being locked up in his 400 sq ft apartment

4) oh but to have a student loan to default on. the culture of higher education doesn't exist in these poor families. you know what it feels like to be the first in your family to go to college, pretty lonely actually.

5) in the first instance they built an economy which would never have full employment. then they put one worker against the other, and the church backed them up, with bs about work ethic and so on. then one day instead of 5%structural unemployment, it was 10% then 15%. what do we do with all these extra people? when there is more than enough wealth to go around? the rich aren't complaining though, because the government gives them (the poor) money to spend, while the rich don't pay taxes, the money is printed out of thin air, and the rich ring the cash register, selling goods and services to these disenfranchised workers, who got their money from the federal money tree. then the rich move their profits offshore, or they buy gold as the system spirals into deflation. neat story huh?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:49 | Link to Comment bluelou
bluelou's picture

" A person can be deemed "disabled" if thy are totally lacking in the cultural and educational skills needed to be employable in the workforce. "

This is a total lie.  My mother fought (successfully) to get SSI benefits for the 3 years before she died.  Also, my wife, doing pro bono work, helped to get disabled people through the administrative hearings that are required to obtain SSI.  Many who need SSI are rejected for years before they receive any benefit.  These are not people who are tired or lazy.  It could happen to you or someone you care about and you'll be glad its there.  Lastly, it's not a generous benefit.  I think my mother got about $300/month and all of it went to food, meds, and transportation to medical specialists not covered by other benefit programs.       

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:52 | Link to Comment RKDS
RKDS's picture

I hate the poor who game the system as much as anyone but this is clearly a distraction meant to get the middle class fighting the poor while the rich continue to rob us both blind.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:59 | Link to Comment ella
ella's picture

That is my point.  Well said. 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:21 | Link to Comment the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

the poor who have learned to game the system aren't poor any more

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:36 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

and guess who makes a cut off of every EBT debit card purchase?

JP fucking Morgan Chase Rockefeller.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:16 | Link to Comment Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

oh, that's funny. MoreCT calls the working, taxpaying people "freeloaders". So what are the welfare recipients? Heroes?

By definition, someone producing economic goods or services & paying taxes cannot be called a freeloader.

Your argument flows from a backward premise. It is invalid. Think critically about that.

Cheers,
Beef

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:20 | Link to Comment the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

Of course there is no mention of all the entitlements the 60K worker receives. If he can qualify for a mortgage, (automatic ATM machine, courtesy of the FED), access to consumer credit, (just open the mailbox, there's a new card every week) When Obama handed out checks to taxpayers, only those who actually paid taxes received them.

And of course from a business perspective, giving poor people disposable income, insures they will spend that money, and that means economic activity. How about we do a hit list on America's teenagers, one of the highest disposable income demographics. One suspects that in the end this is an Immodest Proposal, brought up to date. 

Although Ohio is the new Mississippi, I understand. There may be some squabbling over the bragging rights for poorest state in the Union. sad.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:59 | Link to Comment Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

The historic track record of the Soviet Union and Cuba prove that once all the population is entitled to the same level of benefits whether they work harder for them or not, that the productivity level of the producer plunges. People pretend to work as the pay doesn't incent additional performance. Since Healthcare bill takes effect January 1st and Healthcare will be added as income to one's W2, watch the result to productivity in 2011. It will begin to plummet by the second half of the year. We won't have to wait long to see this effect of reality. One dollar one vote works until you run out of other people's money. The U.S. has reached this place.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:53 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Productivity in the USA has been flat for about two decades.

This already HAPPENED.  You're talking about it as if it's current events.

"Economic growth" for (at least) the past 15 years has been entirely based on financial fraud and asset price inflation, not productivity and work.

Where've you been?

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 13:02 | Link to Comment toady
toady's picture

Huh... That not what I've heard. As the company I worked for laid off thousands of the last decade they kept talking of 'productivity increases'. The media (I know, I know, don't trust the media) has also parroted the 'great productivity increases'  that were allowing all these wonderful layoffs.

The productivity increases have led to 20 people working 24 x7 (16 to 20 hours in the office 6 days a week) and the other 280 people laid off/retired.

Thats how it is on the ground here. Is it a good thing? Time will tell.

 

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:11 | Link to Comment Dweeb
Dweeb's picture

We're missing the long-run consequences of this situation.  All the talk about different values is meaningless in terms of end result.  If we structure a society that penalizes the 60K family, we'll slowly eliminate the majority of 60K families struggling to "do the right thing" and pay taxes for those collecting benefits.  It matters not who has a big heart, a small heart or who is a partisan.

 

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:28 | Link to Comment Captain Kink
Captain Kink's picture

My friend makes 200k a year in NYC.  he pays 40+ percent in 3 levels of income tax. add social security and medicare, and he's at 55%.  Add 8% sales tax to every purchase he makes and we're at 63%.  No property tax.  He is depressed and rambles constantly about being disenfranchised and dis-incented. He's going to a shrink to help deal with the despair he feels at the injustice.  and the shrink doesn't take his insurance.  200k is lower middle class in NYC. 

 

 

 

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:04 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

No, cap'n, actually your friend is just a whiny lil bitch.

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:20 | Link to Comment Captain Kink
Captain Kink's picture

Perhaps he is.  My point was merely to illustrate that the guy works until the middle of August each year just to support the various levels of gov't.  And they spend beyond their means.  I also live in Manhattan, and I can't imagine living here on that kind of money.  Rent for a small, livable two bed apartment is 4500.  Parking a car is $400. Ridiculous, I know, but thos are the facts.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 18:10 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Manhattan's a playground for the bankers.  The majority of the population (poor/working class) is allowed to stay to pour drinks, whore out, and mop up the puke.  I was there from '00 through '06, I have some understanding of the facts on the ground.

But if it sucks so bad, at least you top 1% income guys can LEAVE.

What you consider "livable" is the cause of your problem.  Most NYCers are getting by in apts the size of broom closets with no car. 

But to live like that is an intolerable concept, I know.  Think about it: it's intolerable because?

Thu, 11/25/2010 - 15:53 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Captian, with all due respect; tell your friend to get off his New York Ass and Get OUT of the Empire State.

He can go anywhere in the United States of America and Experience greater freedom, less cost of living, less taxes and even perhaps enjoy Consitutional Freedoms.

4500 Rent for a NYC Apartment is stupid. Here in Arkansas Rent for a house 2000 square feet is about 1200 or you can buy the whole thing for 160,000 and a few acres of land.

And with whatever Skills your Friend has, he can still be a power player anywhere. Just take care to pick a area that has not been severly impacted these last few years.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:09 | Link to Comment Eureka Springs
Eureka Springs's picture

The framing is all wrong. It is divide an conquer. At this point the poor are being told. Jobs wont be available for a very very long time. Decent paying jobs? Never. If you earned minimum wage in early 1970's and your pay rose with inflation you would be earning over 20.00 per hour today. That's 40k, folks. Minimum wage today is less than a shadow of it's former self... as is 60k. Offer those on the dole 40k per year now... and watch well over 90 percent stampede for the time clock (just to work all day and live like a 1970's American on minimum wage earnings.. People are not stupid... working for todays minimum wage is nowhere near an answer for them now... so why consider it. My God, society would get half of it back in taxes since these types of paychecks (and ensuing sales taxes) are garnished at the pay point. The very venom spewed by many in these threads come from the same people who would rather shoot a poor person than pay a living wage, who would rather pay 200 to 300 percent more for health insurance and pharmaceuticals than have a universal system which competes with 35 countries who do far better than us. All the while they have watched the value of 60k plummet while cheering and betting long on shit like NAFTA and howling at any organized effort to get a a decent wage from their brethren.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:10 | Link to Comment Yossarian
Yossarian's picture

There is no Wyatt Emmerich at theclevelandcurrent.com  This is very sloppy work to not provide a link and some further explanation of the #'s.  Please clear up this matter.  Thak you...

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 15:05 | Link to Comment proLiberty
proLiberty's picture

Socialism is the fraudulent bargain that we each can live at the expense of everyone else.  I used to say, if only they would let us, but in fact socialism must involve government coercion and the threat of deadly force, or else people would opt out, especially those people the system needs in order to fund the scheme. 

 

This is a system built on lies, coveting and theft.  It cannot stand. It is neither morally nor economically sustainable, a concept the left loves to scold us about when it comes tom causes they are trying to sell to the rest of us.

 

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 15:17 | Link to Comment MyKillK
MyKillK's picture

The entitlement system in this country is way, way out of control. The whole thing about the black market jobs is so true. I've seen and lived near plenty of mexican gardeners and tree-trimmers who drive BMWs and brand new GMC trucks. They work 20 hours a month at some minimum wage job (hired by people they know) and then collect their tens of thousands in entitlements on top of the thousands they get in assistance for each child they have (and boy do they take advantage of this...) and then work a full time job as a gardener making another $30,000 a year under the table.

The lower middle class is the new poor and the poor is the new lower middle class. Disgusting.

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 19:25 | Link to Comment ClearSpecs
ClearSpecs's picture

MCT needs to read some anarcho capitalist stuff.

enough externalities BS.  People can put together roads and organize a civil society themselves.  the state has externalities too, but they usually result in millions of deaths.

The idea that force can be used to create a civil society is a contradiction of ideas.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 20:11 | Link to Comment Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

I wanted to comment on this last night but held back because I was tired and it is a complex issue. My disclosure - I grew up in a mixed working/welfare neighbourhood and I was lucky. I liked to read. The library (public  funded) was my refuge. 

But also hung with other kids and saw them locked out of their homes when it was cold. In terms of education, level the playing field. Give the kids a chance. I remember in grade 4 that a few boys were trouble-makers. And the smartest of them went on to be drug dealers!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrZ4sMRYimw

 

Wed, 11/24/2010 - 18:05 | Link to Comment sharonsj
sharonsj's picture

I'd like to know where he gets those figures from.  For a single person, here in PA, my food stamps are $25 a month!  (A friend who actually earns below the poverty line gets $145 a month.)  Energy assistance was $300 for the full Winter.  My income was way less than $14,500 and I was told I was too rich for Medicaid.

I don't know any poor people who get the kind of assistance described.  And I don't understand how you can conclude that being poor somehow makes you rich.  Somehow this smacks of blaming the victim.

Wed, 12/01/2010 - 06:41 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Let's say someone works and makes 4000 dollars a month that should be around 48K gross for the year leaving say.. 25,000 dollars to spend in net cash.

If you are debt free and only maintain a free and clear home with just utilties, food and gasoline then you probably pay about 500 dollars a month and another few hundred to drive to and from work.

As long you make your own pot of coffee and bring a thermos and stay the hell out of that Starbucks or any other 5.00 cup of coffee you can enjoy good coffee for .15 cents a pot.

The rest of the money piles up in a bank account ready to go round tax time.

 

After a while it matters not what happens because you will have years of savings ready to sustain any damage, loss or medical trauma or loss of work for a very long time.

Being debt free is the secret. You can live on less than 1000.00 each month if you are debt free. Nothing to it.

 

That includes being sober, staying away from drugs, strong drink and other activies like nightclubbing or whatever that gets you into trouble. You dont need a Ipod either. Just a good old ledger pad to keep notes and a brain in your head to retain the day's work.

 

But sadly, this is not to be. Half the United States have been caught up in consumerism for so damn long and enslaved by credit cards, student loans and car loans and medical bills in addition to all the children that must be fed and so on etc etc etc etc.

It matters not anymore.

Just waiting for a tipping point at which the population will create a revolution and make change happen to break the current chains that sit on thier shoulders.

Me?

 

I am just trying to stay out of the way of the coming shit storm that will splatter.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 12:51 | Link to Comment toady
toady's picture

I'm WAY late to this party (I had to stand on the porch for 2 days without encouragement) but I just had to comment that the headline said 60K a year, and the Data in the chart said 30K.

So 'The Head Of A Household Of Four Making Minimum Wage Has More Disposable Income Than A Family Making $30,000 A Year'

I beleive that a lot more than the 60K number, but its not nearly as sensational.

 

 

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