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Eric King Follow Up Interview With GATA On The Trail Of The Biggest Gold Manipulation Story Disclosed

Tyler Durden's picture


The Andrew Maguire LBMA whistleblower story just refuses to go away, and it is about time someone from the mainstream media (yes, we know you read us constantly) finally picked up on this massive expose about the decades of fraud and manipulation in the commodities market, with a focus on gold and silver. Don't worry, the Wall Street ad revenue sources you may lose from highlighting this "must read" story will be more than offset by the increased readership you will gain. Today we have the latest segment in this saga, courtesy once again of Eric King who interviews GATA members Bill Murphy, Chris Powell and Adrian Douglas.As is pointed out in the interview, "The CFTC, on the public record, has been shown to have known in advance of massive market manipulation, and have done nothing." Isn't this the same reason why Markopolos called SEC the biggest bunch of idiots in existence vis-a-vis their performance in the Madoff debacle? It is time someone big blew this up finally. Perhaps this will explain why it never get mainstream attention: "JPMorgan chase is an agency of the US government, rigs the markets, and undertakes market manipulation." To all our readers: this is yet another "must hear" interview.

From King World News:

In this interview with GATA we continue the saga after just having
interviewed Andrew Maguire, the whistleblower out of London. This gives
a short and long-term view down the rabbit hole through the eyes of 3
of the GATA board members.  GATA was so heavily involved not only in
breaking the news at the CFTC meeting about the the metals manipulation
but also at the same time quite possibly uncovering the largest fraud
in history. The Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee was organized in
January 1999 to advocate and undertake litigation against illegal
collusion to control the price and supply of gold and related financial
securities. The committee arose from essays by Bill Murphy, a financial
commentator, and by Chris Powell, a newspaper editor in Connecticut,
published at Murphy's Internet site,  In this GATA
Roundtable we will have Bill Murphy, Chris Powell and Adrian Douglas.

Link to King World News.


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Wed, 03/31/2010 - 13:35 | 281849 Jesse
Jesse's picture

Nice to see someone in the financial blogs has the stones to cover this besides me.  LOL.

Good job.

Huffington won't take my COMMENTS now on a story that seems to portray the TBTF banks as the potential victims of evil precious metals bulls who might exploit their naked shorts, although I think the writer might have been trying to make another point.  The silence is deafening. 

You really can't make this stuff up.


Wed, 03/31/2010 - 14:40 | 281911 svendthrift
svendthrift's picture

They won't allow you to comment on it? The US is so bloody corrupt.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 16:06 | 282133 Lionhead
Lionhead's picture

Perhaps it's a control issue; it takes time to screen undesirable comments out, so why allow readers to go there in the first place. Just shut them out.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:13 | 282012 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

Publish your comments here and I bet a bunch of people will copy-paste them into their own comments on huffpo. Not that I would ever condone such anti-patriotic guerrilla tactics.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:17 | 282026 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Trying to pull a faust one, eh? :-) Indeed a bargain.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:20 | 282034 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

lol *groan*

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 19:12 | 282451 dnarby
dnarby's picture

ow ow ow...

...Actually, that was pretty funny AFA puns go.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 19:14 | 282453 dnarby
dnarby's picture

If this is Jesse of Jesse's Cafe American, MAN have I occasionaly wanted to be at least able to email you regarding some things on your blog.  Why no comments or contact email?!

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 23:31 | 282678 Jesse
Jesse's picture


There is a contact email as big as life on my website.  Look at the profile.  That is where most bloggers put them.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 19:55 | 282486 Crime of the Century
Crime of the Century's picture

And the fact that the piece comes from Janet Tavakoli makes it all the more noteworthy. "I want to see you in jail"... exqueeze me?? Is she referring to Sprott? I got the same drift from the story, and she has a bigger, shinier tin foil hat than any gold bull.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 23:45 | 282688 svendthrift
svendthrift's picture

Sprott? Could it be?

Her article is odd. Either the bullion banks have the gold to cover or not. If they don't it is fair game to exploit that.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 13:35 | 281860 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

None of this is news as far as the markets are concerned.

Note how a stock like Yamana Gold (Eric King's favorite) is still locked in a steep downtrend, trading at the same price as 2006 when gold was $550.

What will it take to get this thing moving?  $1,500?  $2,000?

How many people have to be assassinated first?


By the way, why doesn't Eric King interview the CEO of Jos. A. Bank next week?

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:30 | 282055 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

What "markets"?

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 17:00 | 282230 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

You know. The IMF guys who pay out billions in counterfeited money for cash for gold commercials. The guys who give food and water to miners in africa and send them with guns down into gang controlled mines charging them interest on the food and water and bullets until they bring them gold and it ends up being just about what they charged for food and water and then rinsing and repeating.
You know the various levels and rings of slavery.
The markets.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 18:04 | 282365 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Markets me arse - people cannot pay their debts , that is the only true value of fiat paper - the promise and ability to pay.

When they cease to play this game the present "markets" are kaput

This little game is over.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 21:08 | 282537 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

Gold stocks just aren't popular.  Not to mention how demonized mining has become - who would want to harm the environment when you can just use digits?  They won't be popular until they are about to finish the boom which isn't even close to ending. Patience.

All this manipulation, short-selling, blah blah blah, it will all end through force in a crack-up boom sort of way.  This just gives us cheaper prices for longer.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 13:40 | 281870 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"Eric King Follow Up Interview With GATA On The Trail Of The Biggest Gold Manipulation Story Disclosed".......and then promptly disappeared, thus making it a non-event.

Funny but I didn't read about this in the papers nor did I see anything about it on the evening news with Brian (is placing my face on the side of a milk jug in the name of publicity going too far) Williams.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 13:44 | 281878 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Nobody cares about gold.

What they do care about is oil, and everyone seems to believe OPEC is manipulating prices higher.

I suspect that Bama knows about Peak oil and that we've passed it.  You think GATA's schtick is a big deal, who cares?

Is Peak Oil part of the mainstream discourse?  No.  Only how them oil companies is screwing us with $3 gas.

People believe in fairy tales like OCS oil saving us; nobody wants to listen.  It takes the otherwise rational YEARS to accept Peak oil.  A very educated friend of mine assumed that if it were real he'd have heard of it.  It took rephrasing what Peak meant WRT "interest rates" or the cost of capital to get him to understand.  And even crossing that threshold, you hear deus ex machina cloture.

If I were buying gold it wouldn't be because it's special, just because it's compact and of recognized real worth.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 14:03 | 281919 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

If they didn't care about gold they wouldn't manipulate it. Gold is the key to unravelling the fiat currency USD hegemony pyramid. Gold tells you the emperor has no clothes.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 17:15 | 282264 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Don't focus on the paper, focus on the real.

The explosion comes from the oil market...oil moves things and it's what digs up gold too

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 21:18 | 282545 All That Glitters
All That Glitters's picture

Even more to the point if the PTB didn´t care about gold they wouldn´t have stolen so damn much of it!  What about the tungsten bars in Hong Kong???  That story left about as fast as Sec. Clinton did on her way to Beijing hours after it broke. 


  Nahhhhh..  Thats tinfoil hatstuff, poppycock and bolderdash to boot.


  What happened with the Japanese nationals crossing the Swiss border with almost a quarter TRILLON in phony U.S. treasury bills?


  Thats IT!!!  Move along people, thats right!  Nothing to see here!!!!

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 21:15 | 282542 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

Gold represents freedom.  No one can easily counterfeit it (well except for Tungsten bars) to steal from all savers.  If everyone's savings wasn't diluted at the rate of 50%/decade, imagine how free people would be to stop worrying about money, making risky investments in the stock market, or trying to game the real estate market just to stay ahead.


You could simply exchange your labor for other men's labor to dig up the gold and then exchange it for oil companies to dig up their oil.  Much less to worry about with gold versus fiat. 


Fiat keeps people pre-occupied with worrying. This keeps the sheep from thinking too much or getting to actually accumulate savings to make life easier.  In a world where everyone is relatively rich relative to things they need to live, who is there left to enslave?


Wed, 03/31/2010 - 22:23 | 282608 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

 - hey, thought this would enhance your post;

Thu, 04/01/2010 - 00:24 | 282716 perchprism
perchprism's picture


SC, It's kinda crass to pitch your website with every comment you make. 

Thu, 04/01/2010 - 05:56 | 282810 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

"If I were buying gold it wouldn't be because it's special, just because it's compact and of recognized real worth."


Isn't that a description of "special" in the context of money?

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 13:40 | 281872 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Everyone in the know knows this is going on.  It's been talked about for years.

The Fed is managing prices through its proxies.  Period.

They can cash-settle gold at a premium, because cash is free to make.   That's actually a good way to drive inflation in the money supply if they so choose.

The problem is with oil; you cannot forcibly cash-settle a barrel because cars and ships don't run on cash.

Obviously, the paper markets have broken down because they no longer reflect reality.  It will all unwind at some point just like any other fractional paper scam.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 13:44 | 281876 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"The problem is with oil; you cannot forcibly cash-settle a barrel because cars and ships don't run on cash."

I beg to differ. What about the Stanley Steamer? It can (happily) run on cash.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 13:45 | 281880 trav7777
trav7777's picture


Gonna hafta ramp up that there production

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 13:50 | 281886 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Now those are rims to die for.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 14:53 | 281987 monmick
monmick's picture

How many miles per bill does it get?

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 21:50 | 282572 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

AHAHAHAHAhahaha, yes, excellent - but guess what...Chumbawamba is way ahead of ya !! Check out his ride;

Thu, 04/01/2010 - 12:16 | 283119 trichotil
Wed, 03/31/2010 - 13:42 | 281874 h4rdware
h4rdware's picture

With so many fab sources - many of which I had been reading/listening to/otherwise following for so long - all apparently converging on a few central themes, I'm finding it difficult to do any real work.

I can only hope it continues.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:31 | 282061 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture


Wed, 03/31/2010 - 13:47 | 281882 fuu
fuu's picture

And yet spot silver and gold are still in the same range they have been in for a while. wtf.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:34 | 282064 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

Remember these are FAKE paper prices you're looking at.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 17:14 | 282261 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

These prices are not fake until I can no longer buy and sell physical gold at a small premium or discount to the current spot price, and this is still the case. And the BB's are constantly flaunting their ability to set this price. 

I think the issue is more one of time, as in "in 3 months, you will far better be able to see what the price should have been", or as in "if I just massively short this market over the next 3 months, then I will be millions richer.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:59 | 281893 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Be interesting to see if there will be an asian takedown, or any takedown for that matter. If the story is true, I can't imagine someone not taking advantage of it, unless they fear of military reprisal...

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 13:54 | 281898 Absinthe Minded
Absinthe Minded's picture

Nothing to see here, move along. We control the vertical and the horizontal...

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 14:03 | 281917 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 14:07 | 281924 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Damn Robo, I just found that link to post but you beat me to it.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 14:14 | 281939 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Horizontal and vertical just fine here,

Its your Yagi thats off....

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 17:44 | 282322 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Some folks like watching the Chief Show

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 14:06 | 281923 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I just ordered up the first season of the "new" Outer Limits (1995 version) for my viewing pleasure. Why the hell not? I live it on a daily basis.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 14:59 | 282000 Shameful
Shameful's picture

I will argue that why should pay when I'm already living in an episode?

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 21:20 | 282549 non-anon
Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:15 | 282020 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

we need a little vertical for some of those involved:

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 13:59 | 281907 Segestan
Segestan's picture

  With the bankrupt Euro zone , and GATA having no proof for ten years, even though true manipulation has existed.. this News is just what can save the Euro. I take this revelation as war between the Fiat overlords.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 14:08 | 281926 lsbumblebee
lsbumblebee's picture

Denninger is really beginning to annoy me. The Hunt brothers were not SHORT silver.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 14:15 | 281943 svendthrift
svendthrift's picture

I find him completely unreadable. The emoticons, bolding, underlining and the folksy use of folks all the time is amateur hour quality stuff.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 14:19 | 281950 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Denninger types in all caps, which is a sign of lunacy.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 14:43 | 281967 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

WHAT DO YOU MEAN???!!!?!?!


Seriously though, I don't see that it's such a sign.  It's often just a sign of people who don't know computers or aren't paying much attention.  (Admittedly, neither seems likely to apply in his case.)

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:16 | 282024 Jesse
Jesse's picture




Wed, 03/31/2010 - 17:39 | 282315 SRV - ES339
SRV - ES339's picture

Hi Jesse,

Just thought I'd take the opportunity to congratulate and thank you for your work... always enjoy your posts.

Here's hoping you (or someone please) can find a way to get this story "through the firewall!"

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 16:40 | 282197 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

if i type full upper-case then i get rid of that pesky "I" problem.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 19:09 | 282447 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Yah, but that would make you nuts..

Thu, 04/01/2010 - 00:03 | 282705 Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture


Thu, 04/01/2010 - 09:39 | 282901 Hulk
Hulk's picture

you're scaring me CB.....

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:32 | 282056 SRV - ES339
SRV - ES339's picture

He's also a bully... I called him out on his health care views (don't take a dime of my money to "help" those lazy blah, blah, blah) a couple of weeks ago. I prefaced my comments with "respectfully," and made them in a private email (I simply wanted to express my disappointment in his view and had no interest in embarrassing him or anyone else).

His comments... I'm a Canadian (what a sleuth... my email address is from Rogers... and WTF is THAT about), a name caller (greed and lack of empathy... none directed at an individual... is now name calling), and finally... notice my email address was off to the junk bin... to be blocked forever).

And I thought the blogging community was about free speech... apparently not for Mr. D.



Wed, 03/31/2010 - 17:04 | 282238 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Douchinger says his wheat futures price charts can predict the upcoming harvest.  I mean he says that the price is going to break down.  What if the farm season sucks ass?

IOW, how in the fuck can ANYONE believe that TA dictates the real world?

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:38 | 282076 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

I think the best revenge will be to see Denninger immolate himself in his paper dollar stash. Now THAT I will bring popcorn and beer to.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:49 | 282102 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

Denninger appears to have become tedious at best, a whining crying girly-man at worst and why his is probably losing readership. He might not be able to fully comprehend the physical gold market because he loves the paper promises, US dollar, Euro, etc and Las Vegas Wall Street scam far too much.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 17:09 | 282251 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Fuck man the guy banned anyone who wouldn't kiss his ass.

He made his money in the .com paper run and so has some affinity for paper getting him real things.  As a .com company owner, he's used to vapor and bubbles; he likes them.


Wed, 03/31/2010 - 17:19 | 282276 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

He's not the only one.  Mish has also banned numerous people for contesting his views.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 18:45 | 282426 G. Marx
G. Marx's picture


The worst part of Karl's site is his discussion forum. Terribly strong orthodoxy defended via intimidation and threats to ban anyone who dares to question said orthodoxy. Then toss-in a cavalcade of sycophants all fighting over who can kiss his feet the most. Yuck, not very robust. Damn shame, for there have been some smart forward looking people there, all who were eventually banished from the forum.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 14:05 | 281922 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

 "JPMorgan chase is an agency of the US government, rigs the markets, and undertakes market manipulation."


shocking revelation

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 14:48 | 281978 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

My, how things have changed.  Not all that long ago the federal government was an agent of JP Morgan, used to rig the markets for its benefit.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 14:54 | 281986 svendthrift
svendthrift's picture

Obama golfs with Dimon regularly.


Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:55 | 282089 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

Sucks his **** too and then swallows the *** for lunch.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 16:04 | 282130 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ ***

Thu, 04/01/2010 - 00:12 | 282710 Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

ha ha 

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 14:51 | 281976 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

No court papers yet?

"This has been going on for so long that folks forgot how it was supposed to run".  Classic.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 16:54 | 282217 boiow
boiow's picture

"No court papers yet?"

nah. they have been leveraged and sold in the open market by jpm too.



Wed, 03/31/2010 - 14:51 | 281979 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

Lets see if we can get Jon Stewart to comment on it on the daily show.  Reply to my post on the Daily show forum, and maybe we can get some attention.


and here:


Or, we just flood his forum with comments on the subject. 

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:05 | 281995 Rick64
Rick64's picture

Good idea. Just posted on it. The more people that post the more likely he is to air it.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 17:28 | 282290 boiow
boiow's picture

good idea . posted too.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 22:19 | 282605 All That Glitters
All That Glitters's picture


  Brilliant idea!  I posted this with about 10 others (so far) from ZH...

I would love to see Gensler (as head of a high level government regulatory authority I would be suprized if he accepted the offer), but the best guests would be Andrew Maguire and Adrian Douglass or instead of Adrian, Chris Powell of GATA, as he is more eloquent than Bill Murphy in my opinion.  For an ex Goldman Sachs guy I was shocked by Gensler´s sincerity in exploring the very complex nature of this market during the hearingsMany of his follow up questions of  Christian (the Bullion Banks designated apologist) were spot on and showed that Gensler has a more profound understanding of this market than any of his predecesorsJon if you have been sincere in your recent, very well thought out and spoken criticisms of the Wall Street conmen/criminals which dominate the nation´s economic and political spheres then you simply must do a little of your own research and then proceed to expose this UberPonziFraudalooza for what it is.  I won´t lie to you Jon if this goes mainstream the effects on all capital markets will initially be disasterous, but that disaster is going to happen anyway.  If you are proactive and put this out there it will be the markets, and the hundred of thousands of investors with their retirements, children`s college tuitions and life´s work on the line , who will vote with their feet to bring this house of cards down.  If your remain silent, the big banking interests will pull the plug at the time and place of their choosing.  Beck is paid to be a schill for these guys.  Your silence on this will put you in the same chapter that he will occupy for eternity once the history of this most tragic time is written...


  I love this idea because so often it seems to me us hard asset guys are just having this conversation in an echo chamber.  We need to organize our efforts like this more often and get this stuff out there.  Look at opinion polls on 9/11 truth issues.  Pushing 70% of NYC residents who ain´t buying the official story.  The Fed/Treasury´s strong dollar policy is just as flimsy a story!  This blockbuster of a scoop only needs to get a more general circulation and this Comedy Central page is just the venue to do that!  We don´t need the mainstream media any more than a two legged world class sprinter needs shoes to win a race against a bunch of obese elementary school kids.  This story tells itself, just put it out there in as many diverse venues as possible....

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 14:52 | 281984 brushfire
brushfire's picture

I am working with a team of influential Hollywood producers to get this story told in film. We have contacted Andrew and are in the process of securing life-rights to his story. One way or another, the ponzi is coming down. Wall street may own the MSM, but they dont own Hollywood.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:14 | 282015 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

sounds like another role for Nic Cage... 

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:18 | 282028 monmick
monmick's picture

Maybe Nick Nolte could play Bill Murphy...

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 23:45 | 282689 All That Glitters
All That Glitters's picture

Mommick, you are officially a genius!  What a call, listen to this and visualize Bill Murphy....


Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:26 | 282047 lsbumblebee
lsbumblebee's picture

I'm sorry but...Hollywood? It's owned by the same people who buy Cramer his clown suits.

I wish you the best of luck and hope you prove me wrong.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:48 | 282101 brushfire
brushfire's picture

haha nick cage...what a talent. just spoke with my producer friends - their take on the story is to make JPM a fictional bank and tell the story as fiction. sorry...long live clown suits and the ponzi.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:58 | 282117 lsbumblebee
lsbumblebee's picture

JPM is a fictional bank.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 20:40 | 282519 Matto
Matto's picture


Wed, 03/31/2010 - 22:29 | 282616 All That Glitters
All That Glitters's picture

  A movie is a great idea!  Why not get Rip Torn to play Larry Summers and David Cross as Ben Bernanke!  If you think there isn´t a connection to Wall Street and Hollywood by the way you need to broaden your education a little however....

  Check out links from Jordan Maxwell to wrap your mind around the origins, design and intent of Hollywood....  ``The wizard´s wand was always made from the branch of a holly tree.  The wizard´s wand, used to cast many a spell, was always made of holly wood..´´

Jordan Maxwell, it is almost impossible to waste your time listening to what this guy has to say.  He answers a lot of questions most intelligent, curious and critical thinking people never think to ask...

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:19 | 282032 Jesse
Jesse's picture


Yeah and Laurence Olivier can play Bernanke in dental gear "interviewing" Maguire to find

out how much he knows.   "Is it safe?"  "Is it safe?"

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 19:12 | 282449 TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

LOL. I caught that on HBO last month. I was half wondering what it was about and half wondering why Cramer references it. Pretty good flick. Then I watched some show on the history channel about the Nazi's escaping to South America and realized the movie probably wasn't too far off of reality.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 22:31 | 282620 All That Glitters
All That Glitters's picture

Marathon Man.  A true classic!  Although I believe that character would best be done as Hank Paulson...

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:23 | 282041 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

So, in terms of what I can get my hands on, I am 1/3 cash and 2/3 precious metals. I am sooo tempted to get more pms but I told myself no, because they could crash from here and while I am happy to have my physicals, I may need the cash if TSHTF in a deflation scenario. But I keep reading this stuff and thinking about getting more. What do ya think, keep powder dry, or go get more pms?

Yes, I know I'm starting some crap with this, but I really do want to know your thoughts and hey, this is a gold buggy kinda thread.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:32 | 282062 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

If you don't believe the world is going to end in a mad max finale, I say, and Sprott, and Jim Puplava say build a position in mining stocks.  I think if a time comes where stocks get seized from everyday people, we're also going to be a world at war... and that would suck immensely.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:36 | 282072 monmick
monmick's picture

I have been looking at PALL and PPLT myself, to add to all my gold and silver. Anyone have a view on these?

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:41 | 282082 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I was looking at Platinum at $1370 or so and thought I would wait until it went down some...boy do I regret that...had it in my hand.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:45 | 282094 monmick
monmick's picture

Yeah, auto production is ramping up... which I don't understand, but it is.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 17:06 | 282243 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

No it's not. People are saying this and that is ramping. It's not actually doing it. Intel sold more motherboard chipsets recently than it did CPU's which says restocking ramp job. It's all manipulation to get people to move money and stock up and get ready for exactly the opposite of what is going to happen.
It's trying to get china to tip over from a saving culture to a spending culture but it won't work. You can't make your wife buy new 160 dollar pumps when she is really planning on leaving you for beating her. It just won't work.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 19:16 | 282456 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

I had similar thoughts MsCreant , thinking a second crash would bring down PMs with a more industrial use - now I cannot justify the price of Platinum Maples as I am also a euro buyer

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:43 | 282086 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

Only. Gold.

Everything will fall by the wayside as the Gold mothership takes off. And I'm not talking about the FAKE, RIGGED CRIMEX price.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:59 | 282119 Segestan
Segestan's picture

Exactly.. and all the PC mouth pieces will say... Noooooooooo!!!

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 16:16 | 282152 The Disappointed
The Disappointed's picture

Recently made my first palladium buy.

Was reading the Wiki article of the Fleischman-Ponds Experiment, which said that on two occasions, The Dept. of Energy had found no validity to their claims.

So, operating on the theory: 'Never believe anything until it is officially denied' , I bought some.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 16:44 | 282200 Hulk
Hulk's picture

2/3 in PM would be plenty if a paper takedown actually

occurs....Better off not to get greedy, IMHO

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 18:02 | 282361 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I think you are right Hulk. But I do get tempted, particularly on a dip. Also, I have money that is hostage in an annuity (need to be fired or retired to get it, pay tax & penalties), so I can tell myself to include that in my grand total (I actually count it as lost, gone, bye-bye, kinda like SS) and use that logic to justify more metal. But it is sooo gone (this is one of the many small balls of rage I nurse about this whole rip off, the biggest one being my mother losing a shitload of money the family invested for her so she would not have to live off of anyone, including the gov, she is VERY disabled). Ah well. But I think you are right about the greed thing. Greed vs. insurance. I want insurance.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 20:26 | 282513 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

I'm about 40% PMs, PM miners, sprinkled with DBA and MOO, a little bit of FXF and FXC, and about 60% cash.  I am actively moving towards higher percentage of PMs and miners.  I'll probably never exceed 60-65% combined PMs and the other listed items.  I also have a small stash of physical CHF.

Thu, 04/01/2010 - 00:15 | 282712 Gold...Bitches
Gold...Bitches's picture

then call me extra greedy.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 16:58 | 282202 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Cash is great because it is so liquid. PMs are tricky because of potential haircuts with buyers/traders - "price" is always the agreed middle-ground, no? If they know you are desperate for what they offer in exchange you will pay accordingly - that's da rulez. Only masochistic idiots will be running around with their immensely valuable gold coins before the dust has settled - silver, on the other hand, could get you a tank of gas or bucket of wheat for 1oz coin, depending on what they other guy knows - and that's if they happen to up for sale in the first place!

What would you need your cash for, until then, in a long-term deflationary environment? The necessities, no? Stock up on them if you have the space in your place to hedge your bets on increasing scarcity (lot of companies going out of business), followed by total collapse.

Get more füd (in #10 cans) and bullets!


Wed, 03/31/2010 - 17:55 | 282345 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

füd (in #10 cans)


Who do you like for this WaterWings? I keep filling my shoping cart on line but not pulling the trigger on it. I have lots of cans and some beans and grains laid up (I am very systematic, just took down the late 2010s and putting up some late 2012s [you should see the dining room]), but nothing that will last 25-35 years.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 19:24 | 282465 Hulk
Hulk's picture

I have 64 gallons of these baby's

Best dehydrated potatoes ever. First found them at costco, now just order them over the web (but not from the above site)

get spam too, chilli beans, etc


Wed, 03/31/2010 - 20:14 | 282504 Crime of the Century
Crime of the Century's picture

I'm with Celente, if the pain lasts that long, I'll figure a way to leave. The whole world won't be as fubar unless the final credits are rolling.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 20:30 | 282514 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

I took physical delivery from

Mountain House sells great ready-made meals, but they are expensive. I wanted the highest value (cost/quality) so after looking around, and realizing that MREs are not the answer for long-term food, I decided to get all the ingredients a la carte.

Take a look at a few one-year supply kits that run around $1500, like eFoods direct, for comparison and ideas for what you want to get. I used Excel to pick all the items I wanted, with columns for prices, quantity, and the stock# from Walton.

I called and asked about product freshness after opening - they said no more than 30 - 60 days (which is still a long time for food that actually contains water!). Everything comes with lids, but after you've cracked the 25-year seal it needs to be consumed for max nutrition. If you look at one-year kits they will have #10 cans of items that most people plan on using over the course of a year! But Walton also sells #2.5 (about 1/4 the size of #10) cans of almost everything, so I bought the staples (beans, rice, wheat, cereals, etc) that I would use within ~30 days in the big cans, and the other items like flavored tvp (protein), vegetables, fruit, milk, eggs, etc I purchased in the #2.5ers so that they would be consumed in the same time frame. You pay slighty more, but you won't have a freshness/nutrition problem.

I can prepare my meals using all the self-picked varieties instead of what the packages offer. I have found that there are re-sellers of their stuff that charge slightly more, so I went straight to the source. I opened three random cans (banana chips, BBQ-flavored TVP, and granola) and they were all great - the rest is for "safe keeping". I plan to deepen that larder by the end of the summer by adding wheat, yeast, and a hand grinder.

Already have a 5-gallon bucket of sprouting seeds and two sprouters from Amazon for vitamins and protein. I feel that I have a pretty well-rounded larder that will provide nutrition and won't run the risk of appetite fatigue. If nothing collapses I have a long time to eat it!

Prepared for the worst, but hoping that Goldman Sachs will give up and turn themselves in instead! ;-)

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 22:01 | 282585 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Try those paradise valley potatoes I posted above. They come in individual packets, are indistinquishable from the real deal, and last for many years. 1 packet serves 4

Thu, 04/01/2010 - 12:58 | 283172 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Hmm. I think I shall. Potatoes are freaking great and I don't have any of that, yet.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 22:56 | 282644 A_MacLaren
A_MacLaren's picture


I've purchased from these merchants:

Not one I've purchased from, but a nice selection.

Thu, 04/01/2010 - 00:34 | 282725 dumpster
dumpster's picture

buy spam it last for ever ,, lol

but so does cardboard

Thu, 04/01/2010 - 12:57 | 283171 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Anybody have nutritional facts for the latter?


Wed, 03/31/2010 - 16:50 | 282209 Return2Sanity
Return2Sanity's picture

You know up until a week ago, I was pretty solidly in the 'gold is my only protection' camp too. I figured no way on earth those clowns in DC were going to embrace fiscal responsibility. They would just keep on spending until they collapsed the currency. Heck, they even unamimously passed a senate resolution in January that said they would not even consider cuts to SS. But now that they've PO'd so many people with the health care bill, I'm thinking there's a possibility that we'll get a big turnover in November. The May primaries should provide a useful bit of foreshadowing on the level of public outrage. If you see the incumbents getting a run for their money from the fiscal responsibility crowd, then deficit reduction and deflation may win out yet. Don't forget that the federal deficit became such a huge concern to the public in the '80's that we nearly passed a balanced budget amendment.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 17:14 | 282262 trav7777
trav7777's picture

question you have to ask yourself is whether you think the other party is fiscally responsible. 

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 19:02 | 282443 Return2Sanity
Return2Sanity's picture

Their recent track record is very poor, but I think they would dance on tables if that's what gets the votes. So the question is whether the public will start demanding it. It's a tough call with the other big priority being jobs. I won't bet on it right now, just wait and see what develops.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 20:11 | 282501 Crime of the Century
Crime of the Century's picture

I believe the pain will be too great, and the populace isn't like the 1930's where people weren't used to getting a chack and having money come out of lighted walls. The states may not get the full monty from a congressional sea-change, but they will get a bailout, because the alternative is a relentless hammer from the vanquished party and the MSM. Heartless racists! (rinse repeat ad nauseum). The fiscally responsible crowd better get some diverse spokeswomen on point.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 22:29 | 282617 Return2Sanity
Return2Sanity's picture

You make some very good points.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 20:42 | 282520 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

The question you have to ask, IMO, is whether or not we've already crossed the event horizon.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 20:49 | 282528 boiow
boiow's picture

history will show that at this point in time we have indeed crossed the threshold.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 21:28 | 282557 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

I believe we have.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 22:51 | 282641 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

As do I.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 21:32 | 282560 Return2Sanity
Return2Sanity's picture

Oh, it's time to pay the piper, that's for sure, but I don't think it's been quite decided yet who will get the bill.  The people are opposed to tax increases, they're opposed to spending cuts, they're opposed to rising prices, they're opposed to losing their homes, they're opposed to more bailouts for the banks.  Something has got to give somewhere. The big questions are what will finally cause the dam to crack and who is going to get soaked.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 21:51 | 282573 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

I am virtually certain that the little guy (otherwise known as "taxpayers") will get the bill.  The dam will crack under the strain of sovereign debt service.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 16:54 | 282216 Edmon Plume
Edmon Plume's picture

Buy lead in tiny brass containers.  They also make good gifts for people who want to take your PMs.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 18:04 | 282366 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Who needs FTD for gift giving when you have AR or AK, eh?:-)

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 22:52 | 282642 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 9mm MsC!

+ 7.62x39!

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 19:14 | 282454 TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

Buy PM stocks MsCreant. I don't have a lot of powder but I am waiting for a pull back to buy a couple. Just research them and pick out a few top notch ones. They will provide you with more leverage. Mix them up across the different PM's.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 22:34 | 282624 All That Glitters
All That Glitters's picture

Not to pry but my answer to your question totally depends on how much one third is and how much are your rough over head costs are per say two quarters.  My opinion varies greatly depending on the specifics of your situation....

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 23:42 | 282685 Lionhead
Lionhead's picture

MsCreant, if you're going to buy physical, wait to see if the LBMA club runs the suppression play on Friday with the jobs report. If gold plunges, there's a good buying op. Since Andrew Maquire has given us the playbook on the scam, let's see if they're brazen enough to do it again now it's public. This would also be a good entry point for gold stocks if they plunge also. Here's your risk/reward for the set up. Judge for yourself what's best for you.

Good Luck!  Lionhead


Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:26 | 282046 zenon
zenon's picture

Through a friend of mine I asked the head dealer of a large swiss bank if there was a large naked short in silver. He answered (through the friend) that he could easily sell 25m ounces spot. Don't know what to make of it, given the BIS numbers showing a huge OTC short and not to mention Comex's alleged difficulty in delivering this amount for March.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 16:37 | 282190 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

I went into the LBMA the other day and asked the same question. Got the same answer. They were able to sell me one hundred times that much. Just send them the money.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 17:01 | 282232 zenon
zenon's picture

I believe he was talking about physical delivery. I will double-check to make sure.  Of course he may be refering to bullshit claims on bullion banks. Problem is very few people actually take delivery, esp. of silver. In Switzerland there is a 7.5% VAT on top. People are happy to be told they have X amount with whichever bank. On an individual level it sort of makes sense. On an aggreagte level it's collective shooting in the foot.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 17:32 | 282299 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

Thats one reason why ZSIL.SW is interesting for Non-US citizens.  You American tax slaves need not appy.

The Zuricher Cantonal Bank PM ETF's are all redeemable in PM's in Zürich.  They were originally set up for the swiss life insurance industry and the serial numbers can be tracked online.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 20:28 | 282489 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

Read their literature carefully.  If memory serves, this bank does not deal in LBMA "good delivery" bars.  Caveat emptor.

With James Turk's you can store your physical in Zurich, London, or NY.  GM is not associated with the big Bullion Banksters.  Their premiums and fees are reasonable.  (You pay just when buying; not on selling; GM will buy back your PM from you.) 

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 23:07 | 282651 Return2Sanity
Return2Sanity's picture

That would be my interpretation too. In other words, it doesn't matter if there are naked shorts, as long as someone can deliver all the physical that is demanded. If you listened to the whole Maguire/Douglas interview, you might have noticed the part where he mentioned that there were some delivery problems in the fall of 2008. He said something like the guy (I forget his name) in Dubai kept getting calls from bankers asked who's buying all this gold. The implication was that the bankers were going to lean on the buyers to knock it off. But the answer was it's not a few people, it's everybody. The demand was coming from  a huge number of small buyers, so there was nothing they could do about it.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 16:55 | 282048 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

J.P. Morgan and the squid have been manipulating markets on behalf of the government for years. They manipulate the stock and bond markets higher and gold (and commodities) lower.

We now know the reason why Brooksley Born was ordered not to regulate derivatives, for they are the dark matter that J.P. Morgan and the squid use to manipulate markets. Same with the audit of the Fed. If derivatives are put on exchanges we will see the manipulation. If the Fed is audited you will see how they team with J.P. Morgan and the squid to make good their losses when their government induced manipulations hit the wall.

This has been going on since the 1970's, but never on such a massive and risky (for the government) scale.

They have been tripped up over gold, as these delusional New York financial types and their revolving door government regulators assumed that everyone in the gold market really just wants paper money, and not gold itself for its own sake.

Given the demographic disaster facing the U.S., all the layers of the onion will get peeled away in the next 15 years.


Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:46 | 282092 svendthrift
svendthrift's picture

King World News is outstanding. I've subscribed to the podcast for a few months now.

Are there any other high quality podcasts on finance/economics I should subscribe to? I can not and will not consume CNBC/FBN/WSJ/NYT et al ever again.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:54 | 282112 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

Jim Puplava's Financial Sense Newshour is a must listen (IMHO)@  You used to be able to go back quite a ways in past shows. 


Wed, 03/31/2010 - 16:20 | 282160 svendthrift
svendthrift's picture


Wed, 03/31/2010 - 16:29 | 282171 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

correct URL is:

It's good stuff.  Jim has brought both sides of the debate from deflation / inflation.  He lets his guests speak their views without interrupting even if he disagrees.  It's been a very valuable resource to me.  I listen to it when I'm traveling, mowing the lawn, or burying my dubloons.


Wed, 03/31/2010 - 22:37 | 282628 All That Glitters
All That Glitters's picture

No CNBC!  What!!  How do you live without your daily dose of Money Honies????

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 16:11 | 282142 goldisok
goldisok's picture

This has to be a result of GATA efforts: SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- The Securities and Exchange Commission said Wednesday it will consider revising rules that govern asset-backed securities. At a meeting next Wednesday, the SEC will consider proposed amendments to Regulation AB and the Securities Act Rule 144A. "The proposed amendments would revise the shelf offering process and eligibility criteria for asset-backed securities and require asset-backed issuers to provide enhanced disclosures including information regarding each asset in the underlying pool in a standardized, tagged format," the SEC said in a statement.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 16:12 | 282145 Camtender
Camtender's picture

Big news, story is in New York Post


JPMorgan 'chase' story in UK

Last Updated: 4:51 AM, March 29, 2010

Posted: 12:37 AM, March 29, 2010

A London-based precious-metals trader who had accused JPMorgan Chase of manipulating the gold and silver markets was involved in a bizarre weekend car accident that triggered a police chase before the suspect was nabbed.

Andrew Maguire, a metals trader at the London Bullion Market Association, and his wife were traveling in their car when a second car coming out of a side street struck their vehicle. That car then hit two more vehicles before fleeing.

London cops using helicopters and patrol cars chased the hit-and-run driver before nabbing that person, whose name has not been released by authorities.

Maguire and his wife were released from the hospital yesterday. London police would not comment on the accident investigation.

The hit and run occurred after Maguire's name came to light Thursday during a US Commodities Futures Trading Commission hearing on limiting gold and silver positions held by large market participants in order to prevent manipulation.

During the hearing, Maguire was identified as having sent e-mails to Bart Chilton, a CFTC commissioner, and Eliud Ramirez, head of the commission's enforcement division, alleging that JPMorgan had used its massive metals positions to manipulate the commodities markets.

In one e-mail, Maguire wrote, "It is common knowledge here in London among the metals traders that it is JPM's intent to flush out and cover as many shorts as possible prior to any discussion in March about position limits," referring to last week's CFTC hearings.

JPMorgan inherited the positions when it acquired Bear Stearns two years ago.

When the allegations first surfaced last week, JPMorgan declined to comment.

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 16:20 | 282161 JuicyTheAnimal
JuicyTheAnimal's picture

So if I get this story straight:  This fellow McGuire became pissed off that the big guy started cheatin' harder then the little guys, hijacking one of the last little guy cheater markets that still existed.  He's mad because even though he already got rich off cheatin' himself, he wanted to have his kiddies in it instead of have them work for a living.  So he executes this plan:  He tells on everyone after he's burried a huge treasure chest in his backyard.  He goes to the media.  He hopes for the Asians to pile in like they got a new camera and wanna see the Grand Canyon.   Then he can go and dig up his bootie and cash in for a comfy retirement for both himself and his kiddies.   But damn it, for some odd reason nobody seems to care.  Perhaps GATTA shoulda got a 30 second spot during the superbowl?  And JuicyTheAnimal scratches his head not ever knowing who or what to beleive and says..I guess i'll buy another ounce or two cuz what the hell dem coins is darn purdy anyways.   And this means that you should probably not buy cuz JuicyTheAnimal is always the bag holder and no reason to think it will change this time. 

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 17:46 | 282327 JuicyTheAnimal
JuicyTheAnimal's picture

What part of that are ya junkin?

Wed, 03/31/2010 - 20:47 | 282523 perchprism
perchprism's picture


I think the juicy part.

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