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EU To Greece: "We Want To Help You Help Yourself"... And We Want To Own You After You File For Bankruptcy
Well, nobody is leaving the eurozone (as expected), but EU is merely ratcheting up the rhetoric one notch seeing full well what happens to countries that continue to endorse unlimited banker bail outs. And it is likely that the war of words will simply continue escalating until such time as the Greek restructuring becomes inevitable, which will likely happen not sooner than a year from now due to Greek bailout liquidity availability and nobody will push the country to do the inevitable until there is even one spare euro in the coffers for fears of what will happen to Deutsche Bank and the European financial domino. So for those wondering what happened at last night's secret finance minister meeting, one one hand, as Dow Jones reports, Greece "asked its euro-zone partners to ease the country's deficit targets as it struggles to comply with strict austerity terms set under last year's financial bailout agreement, a senior euro-zone government official said Saturday. The senior official said Greece acknowledged that it is unlikely to be able to return to the bond market next year and might need to tap the European Financial Stability Facility, the EU's new bailout fund, for funding. A German proposal to possibly extend the maturities of Greek debt falling due in 2012 also was discussed, this person said. Athens has a long-term borrowing requirement of EUR27 billion in 2012. "Greece has asked for the deficit targets to be eased, specifically to push the budget deficit target of 3% of GDP in 2014 forward by at least two years."" Alas, as expected the latest panhandling attempt by Greece was met with abject failure: "No decisions were taken, according to the Commission's statement. Greece's request for easier terms didn't win the assent of Germany and other participants in Friday's meeting, according to a senior European official." In other words, the country is on autopilot, and possibly worse. Per Bloomberg: "European Union officials may require Greece to provide collateral for aid as policy makers struggle to prevent the euro area’s first sovereign debt restructuring, said a person with direct knowledge of the situation."In other words, for the first time since Weimar, a country may soon be forced to collateralize superpriority debt issuance to foreign creditors: an exercise not really seen in international politics since the Weimar war reparations... and at least Germany had its own currency back then. Summary: the EU just told Greece to prepare for Debtor in Possession loan issuance. Basically should Greece default, and it will, the Parthenon will go to Germany, Santorini will go to Luxembourg, Piraeos will likely end up in IMF hands, and the Chinese will own the rest. Welcome to sovereign debt restructurings for the 21st century.
From Dow Jones:
The ECB, the European Commission, France and others remain opposed to any rescheduling of Greek debt, fearing it could spark worsening capital flight from other indebted euro members and damage the Greek banking system.
"There is strong opposition to this by Trichet," one euro-zone official said, adding that the Greek issue will be "extensively discussed" at the May 16-17 meeting of European Union finance ministers.
These meetings precede the June audits of the Greek government's budget to measure the sustainability of the country's debt load, seen as a key hurdle for Greece's recovery plan.
The Eurogroup's Juncker told journalists after the Luxembourg meeting Friday night that it was decided that Greece needs a further adjustment program, but he excluded restructuring the country's sovereign debt.
The president representing the 17 countries using the euro joined other officials in firmly denying press reports that Greece was considering a withdrawal from the euro zone altogether.
But Juncker said Greece needs a further adjustment program, without furnishing details.
"We are not discussing the exit of Greece from the euro area, this is a stupid idea and an avenue we would never take," Juncker said Friday.
Asked if rescheduling Greek debt to extend maturities also had been excluded, Juncker said: "we have excluded any restructuring of Greek debt."
Some more from Bloomberg with the quote du jour:
“We’ll just have to bite the bullet,” Barthle said in an interview today from his district in the state of Baden- Wuerttemberg. “We need to help Greece help itself. What’s the alternative? We don’t want to be pushed over the edge into restructuring.”
And just how will Greece be helped? Why by collateralizing any new supersenior debt with bits and pieces of its sovereign holdings:
Expanding the 110 billion-euro ($158 billion) lifeline Greece received last year may mean that assets or revenue from asset sales are used to secure extra funds, the person said. Demanding collateral, an idea floated last year by Finland, may help avoid a political backlash against bailouts.
Increasing aid may run into opposition in Germany and Finland, where bailouts have sparked a backlash. Finnish Finance Minister Jyrki Katainen, who suggested seeking collateral for Ireland for its November bailout, is leading talks to form a government that may include the euro-skeptic True Finns party.
As to the whole abandoning the eurozone lunacy: that will never voluntarily happen until Greece has even a cent of taxpayer funded bailout money:
Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou said the report of a possible euro exit was made up and the government was handling the country’s debt in the best way possible, Kathimerini newspaper reported.
Abandoning the euro would have “catastrophic” consequences, Greek Finance Minister George Papaconstantinou told Italian newspaper La Stampa. Public debt would double, consumer spending power would be “shattered” and the country would sink into a “war-like recession,” he said.
Which leaves just one option:
“The likelihood of a restructuring of Greek market debt this year has gone up,” David Mackie, London-based chief European economist at JPMorgan Chase & Co., said in a note yesterday.
Greece has about 330 billion euros in outstanding bonds, according to a May 5 report by UBS AG. The Swiss bank estimates that 22 percent is held by Greeks and Cypriots, the ECB has 19 percent and the EU and International Monetary Fund together have about 11 percent.
About 22 billion euros will mature this year and 33 billion euros next year, according to an April 29 ING Groep NV report.
Greek bonds have declined since the 2010 bailout, with yields on two-year notes reaching a euro-era record of 26.27 percent on April 28. The extra yield investors demand to hold Greek 10-year debt over comparable German bonds widened 4 basis points to 1,233. Greece was supposed to return to markets next year even as its debt peaks at 159 percent of gross domestic product.
So restructuring it is, but not before European bankers show their generosity one more time by funding the Greek DIP loan which in one year will give them a first lien on all the assets used as collateral, probably at a blue light special LTV valuation. We hope Portugal and Ireland are watching and learning how the ECB has commenced the process of peacetime reparations.
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Are you saying the human imagination is incapable of any solution to this crisis - a crisis brought on by the insolvent banker-gangsters themselves - short of total subservience to them and their paper.
None - there is nothing else out there? "I need more opium," is the only response possible?
5500 years of recorded civilization - much of which existed without industrial landfills and illuminated sneakers - has armed us with only that one response?
That's funny.
Look up the definition of ponzi finance.
The greeks cant pay social security, healthcare, government salaries without it.
Imagination does no good against the cold hard reality of financial numbers and a greek population which will never pay taxes and feels it is their highest obligation to cheat the tax man.
Human imagination is perfectly capable developing a solution to the debt crisis. Greek imagination has so far been utterly INCAPABLE of providing a palatable or workable solution to escape their debt bondage. Default by Greece is only an effective solution when the Greeks no longer need to borrow, otherwise they are simply increasing the price they will pay for the luxury of future borrowing. It's a deal with the devil, but they made it, and they haven't advanced a plan to successfuly break that deal.
Because Greek government is owned by the banker-gangsters (as it has been since the 1830s).
..all your base are belong to us..
Now we can see our future. The Fed, which will own all our gov't debt soon which was bought with money created out of thin air, will ask for collateral from the Treasury and the Fed will then be given all government assets as collateral. The end game is upon us. Meet the new landlord.
This is our present. As beneficial owner of trillions of MBS, the Federal Reserve gets the collateral after foreclosure.
There the houses sit, part of the great black hole balance sheet out of anyone's sight or control.
On another note, the Weimar inflation was finally halted when Germany introduced a new currency based on -- wait for it -- government-owned real estate.
+10. It's funny how Ben B's testimony never mentions the toxic waste dump of MBS laying behind the Fed Reserve building. You'd think by this late date they could tell us the exact value what taxpayers swallowed for $Trillions in blood and sweat.
A rye standard also was an option.
"(EU) officials may require Greece to provide collateral for aid"
Maybe give up some of your sovereign land? Fuck these guys! In the words of Nigel Farage:
"who the hell do you think you are?" classic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gm9q8uabTs
+100
Bankers and their uberclass clients may not have as much time as they think.
Thanks to them, the masses have grown much more comfortable with the concept of default.
Fuck 'Default'.
The people will demand a Debt JUBILEE on obvious grounds - parasitical White Guys behind computer screens have stolen the wealth created by people who actually LABOR.
Once THEY start shredding contracts, they surrender any stupid claims to future wealth.
Be careful with the generalities.
Only a tiny proportion of white guys as well as joos have significant wealth.
From all over the world, wealth has been stolen by White Capital for about 5 centuries.
While general, it's an apt characterization when one compares the racial composition of Big Capital to that of, say, the planet's population, who it has systematically looted.
the banking system is not white, it is jewish.
Your conditioning will probably prevent you from even acknowledging this
White Capital runs the banks. Or are the Rothchilds Ethiopian?
Don't bother with this ignorant tool named downwiththebanks. He doesn't even realize with his hatred for the white man that he's a tool for the bankers he complains about.
+1
The BOE is looking like our (Irish) saviour........................ I can't believe I just said that.
Maybe that was part of the plan after all.
You can have this , I can have that etc etc.
Oh the spoils of Financial war.
A pact made with the devil. Just wait until payback time. I'm a bit young to remember the Irish Holocaust, but I've read some.
Unfortunetly the only thing the Irish can organise is a piss up so we may have no choice in the matter - we at least got to know that particular devil.
The ECB seems to be a different beast - it smells of the Vatican to me.
Did you ever smell Euro money ? - priests are ejaculating all over the stuff.
Greece isn't going to take it. The PM actually quoted the people recently and appears to realize more than just his political life is on the line. Critical mass is near, MENA is not so far away, and they will not accept a nazi occupation a second time. The grains of sand accumulate into a weight unbearable. It won't matter who is wearing the brown shirt or what logo they claim gives them their power.
Clearly the short sighted PIIG-liticos crossed that line in the sand drawn by the Banksters, and now the Banksters are bullying them as they pick their pockets (and drain their credibility at the same time).
If we go to Weimar:
I wonder whose troops will go to Greece to start collecting "goods"? Perhaps more than the Elgin marbles will be finding new Bankster homes rather than getting put up in museums. There are 6,000 islands, according to Wikipedia, of which only 227 are inhabited. The Banksters could buy a couple of thousand without making much of a dent!
Here's what I as a German think.
Neither I nor any other sensible person here in Germany wants the Parthenon or any other Greek cultural heritage, both out of moral deliberations and left alone that it would be a rather non-liquidable asset and cannot be put to any meaningful use outside Greece.
Apart from that, that would make us Germans look no better than the British and the French who had no qualms occupying and seizing parts of Germany, especially the Rhineland, after WWI, which subsequently led to the impossibility of ever repaying reparations by neutering the industrial base (sound familiar ?) and thus hyperinflation in 1923, where millions got expropriated which then led to the rise of Hitler and then to the elimination of the Jews, who, through their then domination of the banking system, both in Germany but especially in the victor nations of Britain and France, by which to be precise the Rothschilds were meant, were regarded as main culprits of the currency debauchment and related wipeout of wealth in large swathes of the German population in the 1920s.
That's why paper banknotes were commonly referred to as "Judenfetzen" = "jew confetti".
No one could care less about Jews if it wasn't for the banking system and the inherent fraud accompanying a mathematically unsustainable, exponentially growing system of debt and interest that inevitably sooner or later leads to a concentration of all money in the hands of a few.
It's only banks and their loan-sharking that led to this mess.
This is not a question of the peoples who are just unsuspecting bystanders in both countries.
Banks rile up nations against each other and profit from both siedes while watching with amusement the "little people" banging each others heads and delving into acts of jingoism.
Goldman Sachs hiding Greek debt from the books and cashing in fees for it, so that Greece could enter Eurozone and Blankfein, Cohn and Viniar can stuff their pockets with some more bonus payments by profiting from other people's misery.
> Neither I nor any other sensible person here in Germany wants the Parthenon
Can we interest you in something more liquid?
Portugal should sell its gold reserves, says German MP
http://www.expatica.com/de/news/german-news/portugal-should-sell-its-gol...
Word is the Portuguese are waiting for the price to get to 100,000 euros or so per oz. It shouldn't be much longer.
Hey, didn't you know i took ZH usage privileges on "Jew Confetti" at least 50 threads ago. Come on, pay up, pay the fine, i only take gold or silver.
All I have is this stack of Beanie Babies.
Still worth more than a stack of worthless linen!
So what we need is a sequel to "Who Is Killing the Great Chefs of Europe?"
Substitute 'Bank Chiefs' for 'Chefs'.
So what is the endgame?
Will germany continue to subsidize the south forever?
Will germans put up with it?
Do the Germans like sunshine in January? Do they like water skiing on Lago di Como?
Greek Debt(and the rest of the world for that matter) =
Collusion between : bankers and politicians
Thus equals a screwed populace. And yet the populace continues demanding candy canes
without understanding who is really taking advantage of the situation.
In summary: Short term benefit for long term pain sometime down the road, while
the parasitic classes(bankers and pols) make off with the loot.
+ AARP
Jubilee: the obvious solution.
Is that in the Talmud?
yes....isn't it amazing how utterly rich socialism has made the oligarchy?
I always remind leftard idiots of that, just as I will at how rich the war economy (a form of SOCIALISM) has made them to the rightards.
Government's power accrues wealth to plutocrats, nowhere else.
Hey when it is America's turn, I'll take the Brooklyn Bridge!
Are you crazy? Have you seen what shape that things is in? I used to walk under it and think, "dear god please keep me from getting hit by a stray skateboard or a falling bridge". There appears to me to be some deferred maintenance on that monstrosity.
I'll take City Hall. I would immediately convert it to its proper usage, a brothel. Just take the 4, 5 and 6 train down for our Grand Opening and half-priced reach-arounds.
Um, I seem to recall that the state of Nevada seized the "Mustang Ranch" (well-known brothel, for those that have led sheltered lives) for back-taxes and promptly drove it into bankruptcy! Govt Efficiency is a total oxymoron.
No need to wait. I'll sell it to you right now for a few ounces of gold or silver.
What's the point for Greece to effectively sell all their assets to the EU/IMF cleptocrats? There's no way they can repay their existing debt or the 110 bn handouts already promised and the future handouts from EFSF most likely next year. After all, they'll still be stuck with the suicidal club called EMU where they have no say abt monetary policy, no control over currency and now under the control of EU/IMF overlords they have lost control over their domestic fiscal policy. They have lost their sovereignty and the only way to get it back is to call it the day and tell the overlords to stick it where the sun don't shine. They shud restructure first while still part of EMU and then leave the club. That would soften the blow when they take their old currency back. Sure it would be chaotic if they decided to leave euro but seriously it's not gonna be pretty if they just hang around and accumulate hundreads of billions in more debt from the overlords and cut back on everything under the forced austerity program. For whom are the greek politicians responsible, the greeks or the foreign cleptocrats?
There is an obvious solution that escapes the western mind : Greece shall be bought by china as trojan horse into EU market. As Brazil will buy portugal. The Irish will have to emigrate to AUD as nobody will buy them.
To Greece, "JUST SAY FUCK yEU!!!!!!!!!
Thats a shit ton of gyros!!
There is resistance against the EUR bailout system in the german parliament. Some delegates of the ruling parties say we should let greece go.
""If Greece wants to exit, then that is the autonomous decision of Greece, we should support this positively," said Schaeffler (FDP) to the news magazine "Focus". In view of the problems a restructuring of Greece is "inevitable".
... One of their spokesmen, the CDU budget expert Klaus-Peter Willsch said, to "Focus": "For the ESM in this form it may be no majority in the Bundestag That's clearly my goal.." All past experience showed that "States also use additional debt facilities. In addition to the resolute rejection of 14 FDP deputies, four MPs and the CDU-CSU-dissenters Peter Gauweiler consider the "Focus" report suggests that at least three dozen other coalition members to vote "no." Bundestag Vice-President Hermann Otto Solms (FDP) said in an interview with "Focus": "Our vote is open.""
http://translate.google.de/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.berlinerumschau....
Mörkel seems to be in trouble... ;)
Gauweiler, like Ron Paul, has always fought the good fight but achieved absolutely nothing.
So the ECB and Greeks will get whatever they want.
This time it's a little different, it's not only Gauweiler anymore and there is a report from the parliaments scientify service office that the bailout system could lead to unconstitutional consequences.
http://translate.google.de/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sueddeutsche.de%...
We have had bad experiences with blanco cheques in our history... ;)
The Germans, people/banks/businesses/government, are holding the BIG BAG of 27%+ of all of this EU bailout money going to Greece and Co. Well hell, they like their "haircut" short in Germany anyway. If I was a German citizen, I'd be cleaning the ye Ole Mauser up right now. Me, I'm cleaning up my "little" armory. Good time, AS ALWAYS, to be btfd's......you guys have a great weekend.
Hitler took away all the Ole Mausers. Eisenhower made sure they weren't returned after Germany was "liberated".
so if an investor thinks america will be greece how will that investor protect himself at the personal level? to ask the question is to know the answer.
glad i have a head start with the shiny while it's available.
This isn't the first time that Greece has been conquered by foreigners. What makes this time different is that the majority of the population doesn't even know it! When the Persians came, Leonidas and his boys cut them up bad at Thermopyles. The Greeks fucked shit up at Marathona. They were conquered by the Ottomans and kicked them out 400 years later. The Italians came and they tore up the Italians, embarrasing the shit out of Mussolini. Hitlers boys conquered and the Greeks took to the mountains killing German troops until they left. Now the banksters and EU corporations have conquered, they will rip the sovereignty out of Greece, put in their corporations and make the Greek population work for their own profits.
This isn't the first time nor will it be the last. Eventually the people will rise up, off some heads and burn some stores to the ground. The Greeks don't take to lightly to being conquered by foreigners. Its only a matter of them figuring it out, which can take a while.
Yes, Greece, where men are men and sheep are scared.
Seems the lords are blaming the peasants for bad crops. European style.
We have somewhat the same thing in the USA when banking interests blame Social Security for the USA deficit--- which in fact is more than solvent. (The government owes the fund about a trillion plus another half that it stole.) Just substitute the German the banks as the sovereign.
The peasants should just cope out, like they threatened in Ireland. This banking war, screwup, etc. had nothing to do with social programs, peasants, but fraud, schemes, faulty equations among the lords.
The peasants, who are no longer an econ entitity can not solve the problems of the banks. This is the show that is looming in America. The peasants must sacrifice to save the banks, the lords. Cutting off medical aid, food, and education will lower the amount owed to the gullible. It is not the lords that need regulating, but too many greedy, lazy, sick peasants. We have lord Trump. News sources that make Pravda green with envy. We worship animal spirits while being eaten alive.
Social security is a huge problem, but potentially manageable.
Medicare and medicaid are what will cause a collapse unless we tell the blue hairs no hip repair, cataract surgery, nor dialysis etc after being diagnosed with a terminal illness.
Oh yeah...and those 700 military bases. Gotta cut that out too.
Genocide at home in the forefront of your mind, and genocide abroad an afterthought.
Yet nowhere in your tidy little program are the banker-gangsters told to step up and account for their loot. Nope, from the "austerity for everyone but me" crowd these parasites get free opium and extra passes to the gambling dens.
+1. The meme of "Sodemize the Commoners and All will be Well" is really getting old and is just a diversionary tactic.
I would alter the headline slightly to read...
EU To Greece: "We Want To Help You Help FUCK Yourself"... And then We Want To Own You After You Have Done So.Merciful God, Please give me cancer of the Nut sack
Lmao
So...for any of you FX traders or experts...what's your best opinion on what this news does do to the dollar on Monday?
Stop the Friday afternoon $ rally? Reverse it? ...or will the Bernank be able to goose it up a little more?
How about next weeks bond auctions beyond the frontier uh debt ceiling ?
Micro trends are not predictable unless you have an HFT frontrunning machine.
why is everyone afraid of default......morals.....shameful......surely you must be joking.....DEFAULT = FREEDOM
Not Default - Jubilee. And force the MFing banker-gangsters to GRANT it.
At the end of the day I could care less what Germany does to Greece. These 24 or so small countries in Europe are pure garbage countries. Germany (weather you accept their Nazi past or not) is the only good country in Europe. So again I could care less if Germany takes all their assets and then 'owns' them. I would not even take ownership of Greek Islands if handed free to me. The cost of owning these garbage countries are to high. There is no profit there.
??? Are you serious? I sure hope you aren't in charge of even a hamster with such a dipshit, out of touch, retarded x1000 more than Gump, viewpoint. What a garbage viewpoint. If anyone wants to know how not to think going forward for the betterment of mankind, and probably yourself in the process, read the above again, and do everything humanly possible to avoid such idiocy to creep into your head.
No country is a garbage country, and you shouldn't care less about anything, because all of this will effect you. Greece goes down, so does everything in your life. (but I couldn't care less what Germany does to them...well you should...)...talk about a person who in via karma deserves to lose it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yep, you!
Gee I don't care about something that will cause a new dark age. "There's no profit in it. If I could somehow wave a magical wand and be prince...no...fairy...of fascistland, the most corporate profit motive place on earth." and "Meanwhile if some people get screwed...so be it". If some people are treat like beasts, "I could care less".
Man do you have a dipshit streak in you or what? You do not have the head for anything important, because it is so clear you forget about the most important aspects that should be driving your deicisons. The point from which the decisions have to work, the people. What are afterthoughts to you, are the most important aspects of the situation. You really belong working for the federal reserve, you two have the same idiot mentality. No doubt you come to the same unoptimal solutions.
But I bet like Goldman Sucks, you sure know "profit motive"....in fiat bizarro monetary world...a really useful (not really) skill going forward. (especially since this bizarro monetary world will continue on forever..yeah right). You may find out your head is just filled with stuff that won't be useful in the real world, where your head doesn't reside. Money isn't real, it's an illusion. The most real stuff in this world isn't about money, it just takes money, and hopefully soon credit dollars, along with people and a plan to do something. Why on Earth is Germany the only good europe country?
Hey Cletus, go play with matches between your divine snake handling rituals. Seriously. If Germany is the only good European country in your eyes, you are a disphit of magnficient proportions. You make Richard Branson look down to earth even with his arms around flight attendants.
It's dipshits that think like that which got us here, one dipshit overlook at a time. If you don't play with matches, go work for the SEC, DOJ, Obama, Tea Party, etc. They need people who overlook everything important and just focus on bullshit. Real dumbasses who don't know the forests from the trees, and sure in the hell don't know how to identify nor solve anything important nor a real problem. It's all about sophistry to idiots like you, whatever sounds good...is goood. (again only in bizarro monetary world, and even then, only sometimes)
The first part of getting this thing right, is ridding the idiot mentality in some of us. This my friends, by construct, is the example of what a complete douchebag says, a real George Bush when it comes to details. Who cares about PDB Aug 6th memo, the cost of opening and reading it is to high, and there's no profit in it to read it?
Is this guy pro-slavery or something? Owning who? Sounds like this guy's mind is a slave. You actually think it's ok for people to 'own' others (regardless of how close to the definition of slavery it is), it still is econoimcally owning people, which pretty much is everything.
Same Bush mentality, Same Obama mentality, Same idiot mentality, different person. SAME RESULTS.
Wake up man, cause you're on the wrong side with crap in your head like that.
As for Greece, yep, being completely screwed, and this IS how wars start. ECB is engaging in virtual acts of wars on the behalf of banksters. Not even legitimate claims, but fraudulent once foisted upon greeced. Perhaps Greece won't go jihad on them, this time, but some country will, and soon. ECB = Fraud. Everything they do is fraud. Create crap, and foist onto other people to pay. Germany got screwed once, and the Nazi's came out of it...(also funded by the ones who did the screwing). Bankster derived wars. The banksters are creating the conditions causing wars all around the planet, and it ain't going to stop in MENA. But who cares right?
Like WWI, and ever since. (not to mention all of history). But who cares who owns them or not? What are they going to do? Idiots like you always allow the wars to happen, because you are an grade A idiot, and somehow allow the retarded fake belief that it happens for another reason. Nope it's for the money.
But lets just give a free pass to the ECB to screw over anyone. How about yourself, your accounts, your businesses, your country? But who cares, just one dipshit being crushed by such a swell group of guys. So if you don't care about the ECB screwing Greece over, why should anyone cares if somehow the Fed screws YOU over. Way to kick to the curb your european cousin who is undergoing the same screw job you are undergoing. Again....are you trying to be a mental thug for JP Morgan?
Greece needs to exit the euro ASAP, cancel the debt, and start uttering credit like its 1776, american credit system (hamiltonian) style.
America needs to as well.
Glass-Steagall
Idiots who don't know how to do anything but see monetary (aka fake) profits in doing retarded and shameful acts, should sit down, and shut up. They ain't driving the boat, they just were given a whistle and was told this is the captain's wheel (fake one). You're not a useful idiot any more, you're mentality is just that of an idiot. Clearly you are also not informed about anything real, so start reading.
I am European myself and I have been to every single European country and yes they are all garbage and I could care less what EU does to them. You reap what you sow.
The world said those same words regarding the Jews.
WOW!!!! NICE RANT!!!! I enjoyed reading it.. lololol
Nice rant indeed.
But you exaggerate. Greece will only bring a dark age on themselves. They will handicap the euro, and the dollar as always wins again.
Long live dollar hegemony!
I love the smell of napalm in the morning. You know, one time we had a hill bombed, for 12 hours. When it was all over, I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' dink body. The smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole hill. Smelled like ...victory (desperation). Someday this war's gonna end...
Collateral my ass, just the other day Trichet was calling Portuguese bonds collateral and how will he define collateral now. There is a rising tone of desperation in the air.
http://imarketnews.com/?q=node/30325
Charlie dont surf!!
You can either surf, or you can fight!
debt serfs don't surf!
Charlie now works in an outsourced Chinese factory, where Fu Manchu Bernank's buddies pay half what Foxconn does.
Zorba has conundrum, the JCT pawnshop wants to up the collateral requirement on his payday loan, but if Zorba says No, he then has to go begging to Fu Manchu Bernank next payday, and Zorba will wind up working right beside Charlie for the same slave wages.
Fully agree.
In other words the politicians are sowing the seeds for the next big war in Europe.
What time do the Greek riots begin on Monday? I'm hoping to get over there soon enough with fuel, bottles, and rags to sell.
Just don't accept Greek paper for your good merchandise, the 50% discount on that crap is going up.
Greeks want another bailout. Any thing else is "Greek to them." Germany should take posession of the country via a "soft invasion" since they are bailing out all the defense contractors..none of which are Greek--but they won't nor just as likely they can't. If it were me I would recommend that Americans commence negotiating with English, Spanish and Swedish royals about occupying Salonika in order to establish a massive naval complex since "now you're actually getting something for the trillions." Needless to say "don't ever bail out a bank (ESPECIALLY if it's you're own!) and think you're going to get some form of public benefit for it." In that sense "Europe is merely deluded" and nothing more.
The EU confuses me greatly, and its probably the American in me that is confused. I would have a hard time with say, China, coming over and telling us how to fix our economy. Yeah, they lent us the money, but they were also the ones dumb enough to lend us the money. I hope Greece tells the EU to eat a bowl of dicks and stop meddling in their affairs.
Chinese deer dick soup is a delicacy. City debt masters used to pay something like £100 per bowl at Kai on S. Audley (however it isn't listed on their website menu). In short, telling a Banker to eat a bowl dicks can backfire, beacuse he will cut off yours and cook it up for lunch as the collateral if you have to go back again for another loan.
When is someone in authority going to raise the completely obvious issue that debt represents risk to the creditor? These globalist bankers are pretending that there's no risk, because they can't bear the thought of losing. Where are the politicians with enough spine to call their bluff and tell them that they made bad loans, and they have lost.
*Winning* requires one single sentence: "Sorry, you're not getting shit". Done.
After all, if there's no 'risk' involved, why are there different interest rates to begin with???
That's the easy way out. I'd prefer to shove a Forced Jubilee down the throat of the banker-gangsters.
I want Jamie Dimon - to the world on CNN - announcing a Jubilee on all accounts held by the criminal enterprise for which he speaks.
And then ... and only THEN ... does he get the firing squad. That can be his reward.
If there is a jubilee that means all debtors gain and all savers lose. Do you really think the widow with a few treasury bonds or maw and paw kettle with their money locked up in a five year CD deserve to be shat upon?
One minute you're taking away grandma's Medicare, the next you're defending her against those marauding debtors!
I suppose it's chivalry of a sort!
It would be really hard to target the Jubilee. To get it right, you'd probably have to bring in some nerdy little quants to make up a bunch of stupid formulas.
repeat
It'll be like when aol unleased their clueless users into usenet. It was never the same.
Do these boards have any anarchists? Or just a bunch of patriotic flag-waving dumbf*cks? I come here looking for intelligent humans. Let me know.
WTF, Willis? How many posts have you read in your 6 fucking days on board? I doubt you'll have much success recruiting anrachists, though there's a few. I'd guess most here abhor anarchy, per se, but try to prepare for that (probable) inevitability. If by "patriotic flag-waving dumbfucks" you mean folk that would dearly love to see some real fucking leadership in .gov, comprising individuals NOT at the beck & call of banksters, so that the nation could have maybe an outside chance to re-assert itself, then I certainly am guilty as charged. I'll let others speak for themselves.
"real fucking leadership in .gov"
oh we have it. always have. I don't want to have masters. You can pray for a nicer slave-owner. But who wants to be a slave? Oh yeah, you do.
Ok....so what is your utopia scenario where everyone is free and does it include forced income distribution from everyone making over 75000 per year?
I'm not a long time commentator; and only a reader for approx. 7 months, so hardly a long-timer either.
Quick answer:
There's a few AnCaps [notice: not AnSynds etc] - these post some of the most interesting side lines, but they're rare, and hardly vocal.
There's a medium sized amount of Libertarians [old school Libertarians, Ayn Rand focused prior to 'paperwashing' teaparty Koch funding] - these form the largest / most dedicated pure PM holders.
There's a large number of "Patriots" [traditonalists, finding it difficult to accept that USA is under Globalist Capital Rules just like any other country - if/when find out about things like BIS + FED get angry] - large amounts, hold belief that silver / gold currencies will protect them from global perfect storm. This belief may, or may not, be true. Also hold PMs - not necessarily different than Libertarians.
There's a medium sized amount of Traders [old school - the kind who bought into "Greed is Good" but also that "Greed is a meritocracy" or "We protect Wealth through investment" and then watched with horror as the Market proved them oh so terribly wrong] - some still argue with the "bugs" over trading tactics, then the market goes and proves it isn't Capitalist, again, they get angsty & bait the bugs to feel better.
There's a small contingent of theorists [academic level + probably old bones network types, with tied-in wealth, which in the US amounts to getting screwed by the new boys] - rarely post, watch for them when they do.
There's the mad max crazy fraternity [everyone who reads this blog; if you took the blue pill, you'd be reading MSM and nodding along.] - the % variance and gullibility / cynicism / sophistication index of Conspiracy Theory here varies user by user. It is a spectrum, not a black/white; yes/no paradigm, remember.
There's also a couple of spooks [worried about radicals] a few squids (and ex-squids) [cleaning up on the markets, loving the squirming masses in pain as they manipulate; currently worried that they're going to get spanked soon for ruining things by G.O.M.M.'s] and a whole howling mob of sheeple trying to educate themselves.
There's also a couple of old deep ones lurking, of notable and excellent pedigree.
The traditional forums are pure Chinese Bot Spammers, which should tell you something.
And then there's the ringmaster, who is a bit of a cherry picker, has his own agenda, but leading the elephants on a wild ride, so why not play along. I disagree with his current ignoring of Missouri / arable lands, but there we go - it is his site, and he's making money, so 'doff your cap' time.
But what do I know?
Astute. You do know, know a lot and it seems you have absorbed a lot in 7 months that many haven't in years. I have been here a long time, read all posts, but rarely comment. Some of the best commenters are long gone, probably never to return. I miss them. But what you have just listed is so true. This site has been overrun by everything you mention above. Whether it is a good or bad thing, it is best left to one's interpretation.
Thanks for your post.
Well. That was informative. I appreciate the response, as it was 10x better than I expected. It looks like I'll be pissing a lot of people off when I point out the contradictions in their views. Should be fun-- er, um...I mean, intellectually satisfying to convert some statists over to AnCap.
Hey Guys,
Here's a hilarious animation exhorting folks to get even against the banksters and government:
http://thesilvergoldhedge.blogspot.com/2011/05/join-sla-to-get-even-and-...
"WE WANT YOUR GOLD"
I thought it ended up in Russia.
Not necessarily. It's likely that the EU will get relatively little out of those collateral obligations when Greece defaults, and that the EU knows it. Of course, to the extent the collateral requirements are not oppressive to Greece because they won't actually be fulfilled in the event of default, then to that extent they're a con-job on German and Finnish voters instead. But at this stage the EU will say or do almost anything to keep the ponzi going for just one more round, and will worry about the consequences later.
But the Bankers don't want the islands, they're a PR red herring. The bankers want the gold and the paper (preferably equity backed by tangible assets, Euroclear eligible is a +) so that they can lever up the collateral and increase their fiat debt ponzi, and generate more profits & bonuses until the inevitable happens.
Once these kinds of EU bailouts of EU-member nations start, this is the only way they can end. The government getting the bail-out money will, obviously, do everything it can to get the maximum flow of bailout money for the maximum length of time. When the governments giving the bailout money start to even threaten to cut off the money, or even just refuse the bailed-out government's request for more, the bailed-out government will turn nasty and start to blackmail. Absolutely completely predictable and the same will be repeated with Ireland and Portugal, and Spain if the EU hasn't lost its appetite for bailouts already by the time Spain asks for one.
Sorry, but I think you're slightly wrong. Look up (on this very site) the Irish situation.
We have the insanity of the IMF going for a 'liberal' position, and the USA pushing (and winning) for a hard-nosed default / bailout.
At this point, if you think that the IMF & FED are anything but differing tentacles of the same beast, I'm afraid you're never going to 'get it'.
The Battle of Marathon, Greek Μ?χη το? Μαραθ?νος (Mache tou Marathonos), took place in 490 B.C.E. and was the culmination of King Darius I of Persia's first full scale attempt to conquer the remainder of Greece and incorporate it into the Persian Empire, to secure the weakest portion of his western border. Most of what is known of this battle comes from Herodotus.
To Bad since they lead History in so many ways. Idea's start small...
war of words will simply continue escalating until such time as the Greek restructuring becomes inevitable
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Getting back to the post...
""European Union officials may require Greece to provide collateral for aid..."
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What colleteral?
And who is to say Greece doesn't say, "oops my bad, changed my mind...?"
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What are these bankers going to do? Invade Greece and take over public assets. Can't wait for those riots.
Right on!
Imagine one of our little 5'8" Keyboard Cowboys trying to steal bread from a Greek dockworker.
Funny stuff.
What will "they" own if they take over Greece?
"
Greek banks hit by wealthy citizens moving their money offshore Greek banks are being hit by a wave of redemptions as the country's most wealthy citizens and corporations look to move their money offshore or to international financial institutions perceived as safer homes for their assets."http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/7557213/Greek-ba...
Atlas Shrugged: Greek style
I wonder what would happen if all the Greeks who have sold out to the world of finance, insurance, kangaroo law and hedge funds, would face their Oedipus ignorance and start asserting some honor and fight for Greece. Or is it possible that these guys are so fucked up that they can't see that they've sold out?
They've been fighting for a year. They're not giving up a thing, methinks. At least not without a serious, serious fight.
Feels like (and certainly is) the markets, including the ECB, are taking hostages with just one gun pointed to the head of a country. If you are not with us you are against it. I can almost hear the mechanical part of the gun because of the finger on the trigger is getting nervous. The first one to get out is going to be left with a bullit in their economic brains
Wow.
Some administrator deleted franken stein's answer to my question?
It was very mild in its anti jewish banker's tone.
Why was something so mild censored?
.
The answer is simple, Greek "Island Drachma" notes. Backed by the islands mentioned, that douche bank wants...say they're worth 300 billion each, print notes for each. These need to be printed and distributed by the same Govt, and political classes who'll be hanged otherwise. Only redeemable in Greece, by Greeks, pegged at an exchange rate based on the old Drachma, over some span of time. Let tourists use them when in country, but they cannot be redeeemed on the world market, only in country at some said rate for local services. A competing, in house currency and BTW no thanks IMF for the loan suggestion.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-07/eu-said-to-consider-requiring-m... Now, about those Elgin Marbles. What do you say we just keep them here in Berlin for safety's sake, ja?
When I was staying on a beautiful little island in Maluku, Indonesia with my girlfriend in August 1998 we became quite good friends with the local chief/imam. His English was not much better than my Bahasa. At breakfast one morning over a coffee, toast and nutmeg jam we were discussing the charms of the island. We had discovered a little spot where a new swish house had been built. He told us that an Italian man had hooked up with a local woman and had "developed" the site. Property laws and issues of control were a tricky issue in these parts, but the eight hundred islanders were extremely happy to take the US $125,000 for the land and building. I asked the chief if he was worried about losing his little slice of paradise to foreigners. He just smiled and nodded and said in similar words "If the s*#! hits the fan then the land would stay with the locals.” It would be a swift arriverderci for the Italian property developer whether by being sunk over the reef drop-off to swim eternally with the fishes, via swimming and donated floaties or on a Pelni liner back to Jakarta would be up to the mood and graciousness of the locals. When in Rome...
The Greeks are very proud. They will only countenance selling or renting some land if they are paid well. Like the bailouts they will take the money, like they have been doing, and if need be when it suits them they will close up shop and take back what they think is theirs.
They have a few choices in front of them. If they want to go the drachma, default, I spit in your general direction route this will have consequences. Why they can even go the paranoid dictator Enver Hoxha Albanian route and seal the borders off completely, build nice whitewashed bunkers on the hillsides of the islands, clean the goat tracks, ban all tourists and plan a new Athenian conquest of the Mediterranean. Επιλογ?ς, επιλογ?ς, επιλογ?ς ! They can't enjoy the benefits of an interconnected globalised world and still retain a myopic, selfish, limited nationalism. They can't have it both ways. They still think they are the centre of gravity for the world. Unfortunately they lost that mantle about two millennia ago. They are a centre, but not the centre. They can retain their sovereignty under supra-national oversight.
The global financial system is at a very interesting point. Greece is just one part of the mix. May 16th is the predicted date when the US debt ceiling is reached. There is going to be some massive shifts in the coming days, weeks and months. What would old Solon think ?
When I was staying on a beautiful little island in Maluku, Indonesia with my girlfriend in August 1998 we became quite good friends with the local chief/imam. His English was not much better than my Bahasa. At breakfast one morning over a coffee, toast and nutmeg jam we were discussing the charms of the island. We had discovered a little spot where a new quite swish house had been built. He told us that an Italian man had invested. Property laws and the issue of control was a tricky issue in these parts, but the five hundred islanders were happy to take the US $200,000 for the land and building. I asked the chief if he was worried about losing his little slice of paradise to foreigners. He just smiled and nodded and said in similar words "If the s*#! hits the fan then the land would stay with the locals.” It would be a swift arriverderci for the Italian property developer whether by being sunk over the local reef drop-off to swim eternally with the fishes, via swimming or boat back to Jakarta would be up to the mood of the locals. When in Rome...
The Greeks are very proud. They will only countenance selling or renting some land if they are paid well. Like the bailouts they will take the money, like they have been doing for the past five years, and if need be when it suits them they will close up shop and take back what they think is theirs.
They have a few choices in front of them. If they want to go the drachma, default, I spit in your general direction route that will have consequences. Why they even go the Enver Hoxha Albanian path and seal the borders off, build nice whitewashed bunkers on the hillsides of the islands, clean the goat tracks, ban all tourists and plan a new Athenian conquest of the Mediterranean. Επιλογ?ς, επιλογ?ς, επιλογ?ς ! They can't enjoy the benefits of an interconnected globalised world and still retain a myopic, selfish, limited nationalism. They can't have it both ways. They still think they are the centre of gravity for the world. Unfortunately they lost that mantle about two millennia ago. They are a centre, but not the centre. They can retain their sovereignty under supra-national oversight.
The global financial system is at a very interesting point. May 16th is the predicted date when the US debt ceiling is reached. There is going to be some massive shifts in the coming days, weeks and months. What would old Solon think ?
Common sense calling the people of Greece. DEFAULT. If your bribed predator politicians and "leaders" refuse to default, get rid of them. They are stealing your life and country from you for nano-pennies on the dollar. Get rid of them in whatever way you can, for they are guilty of treason and egregious crimes against humanity and deserve zero consideration.
Since you can't be the best model (Iceland already took that honor), show the world another way. It is time for the revolution against the craven, diabolical, scumbag predators who create fiat, fake, fraud, fiction, fantasy, fractional reserve toilet paper at zero cost to themselves, and spend it to destroy and enslave you.
Become a model for the rest of the world.
They are wanting some of those islands that are uninhabited for collateral. I knew that was the plan all along, Greece has so much land and so few people and in a prime spot. So that is why they want the land.
The EU may have their version of our civil war. Of course it will not be the first time for them.
Greece should be owned by anyone other than Greeks...
Deutsche Bank to greek government "ALL YOUR COUNTRY BELONGS TO US!"
I don't like DB, but i must say, taking greece this time without a shot fired and without the loss of even one plane, tank, or soldier...respect!!
This time, everything works out.. looks like 3rd try is really lucky