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EU: "Greek Eurozone Membership Is At Stake" And Greece Must Agree On Tough Measures Or Return To Drachma
The loudest warning to date. From Reuters:
- EU Commissioner Damanaki says Greece's Eurozone membership is at risk
- EU Commissioner Damanaki says Greece must agree on tough measures or return to Drachma, according to state news agency
Incidentally, Greece would like nothing more than to return to the Drachma. And here are the next steps...
- More austerity promises,
- No actual enactment,
- Many more violent demonstrations
- Much more EU disappointment,
- More cash demands by Athens,
- EU floats proposal to collateralize DIP loan with Greek gold
- Greece agrees
- Greece files for bankruptcy as IMF/EU/ECB cuts off funding
- Greek gold now held by "developed world"
- The End
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IMF: All Ure Gold Are Belong To Us
Recall how people felt when other, less-responsible people all around them were defaulting on mortgages they took out using bogus or inflated income/asset representations, and simply walked away from the losses?
Well, that is exactly how China is going to feel when the world reprices its debt in gold.
Serves them right.
"7. Greece agrees"
Why would they agree to this, if they're going to just default anyway? Perhaps I'm missing something.
As a mere guess: stupidity will rule the day, and the Greek tragedy will be dragged out until a point in time where it can do the most harm (such as in the middle of another downturn) and cause other dominoes to fall. Everyone is playing this game as if another downturn can be avoided, even though the first one never bottomed, thus making the eventual severity much worse.
Corrupt politicians owned by the Banksters...
Sound familiar??... USA! USA!
Bingo.
And then right back to number three when the populace realises the social safety net isn't sustainable on the Drachma either.
Interesting times ahead.
"Corrupt politicians owned by the Banksters... Sound familiar??... USA! USA!"
Oh yeah. Silly me, thinking other countries might act in their own best interest.
they'll eventually return to the drachma; just wondering if they will loose all their gold and the Parthenon before they do.
but I thought all talk about Greece leaving the EU were all baseless rumors HA HA HA
It ain't over till the fat lady sings.
And, as has been demonstrated, EU leaders lie, often.
Isn't half of all US Treasury debt held by US firms / citizens?? That's excluding the Fed. So how would this hurt China and not the US?
Norway's Frontline, which operates the world's largest oil tanker fleet, announced an 81-percent decline in net income for the first quarter compared to last year. The company issued a grim outlook...
The operator of the world's largest tanker fleet gives up on the global recovery
EU: "Every Non-German Member Eurozone Membership Is At Stake"
please leave your membership card at the desk on you way out.
Exactamundo.
Quit with the fucking Greek Tragedy (snigger) melodrama, Kabuki theater.
1.) Just don't pay the interest or principle when due.
2.) EU howls
3.) Tell 'em to go fuck 'emselves
4.) EU says you can't do that!
5.) Tell them to go fuck themselves; watch this.
6.) EU screams bloody murder
7.) Laugh in their face, imitate Gallic shrug
8.) EU claims Greek gold
9.) Greece says wasn't pledged to anybody. Go fuck yourself.
10.) Greece announces reissue of Drachma, backed by coffee grounds, tourists brochures, ouzo, stale baklava, old 78 rpm Greek dance records and bare breasted beauties
11.) EU army invades Greece
12.) All 3 EU army soldiers surrender, get drunk on ouzo and learn Greek dances.
Who said 12 step programs don't work.
LOL!
From its inception, the EU was destined to fail. Packaging some of the worst black market economies together, lending them money for phony construction projects and putting a shinny EU sticker on them was a terrible move. Maybe this time, someone will actually pay for their mistakes.
someone always does, just not who’d you hope would be paying, in a retribution sort of way
original captcha was minus 27 times 31 equals ? but then it said math question cannot be longer than 3 characters but is currently 4 characters long. oh well.
Remember: No good deed goes unpunished...
minus CAPTCHA never works and the wrong people always have to pay...
BTW: CAPTCHA has been fucked ever since Marla disappeared...
futures might as well be green....
Tyler, I thought you said the other day that the notion of a return to the Drachma was out of the question? What has changed?
Europe agreed to gold as collateral (see first post this am)
Which I'm sure has Ben's thong in a bunch. He's probably been walking funny all morning.
So Europe now thinks that the 110-odd tonnes of gold owned by the Greeks is enough compensation for the catastrophe that will follow a Greek default?
If so, they must value gold a lot more highly than the spot price.
The Greek debt to the Eurozone is at least 110B euro. Greece has 110 tonnes of gold, implying a valuation of 1 billion euro per tonne, or ~31,000 euro per troy oz.
Where am I wrong?
Congratulations, you just took a step to understanding freegold. CBs already value gold much higher.
Unfortunately you are still backing the wrong horse.
No reply? You must be considering the ramifications of your mistake. Is that fear and doubt that you feel?
No reply? You're not really claiming someone is feeling "fear and doubt" for not replying before you finished writing your replay, are you?
I am well aware that gold is far undervalued. Thing is, so is silver--to a much greater degree. ESPECIALLY in the short term. In fact, I have stated many, MANY times that I will switch from silver to gold during the course of the industrial user panic that follows the COMEX default. Gold can then be ridden through the dollar collapse, and be exchanged for productive capital on the other side. This is the blueprint to becoming an oligarch in the coming years.
The fact that central banks value gold highly has NOTHING to do with freegold. That system is still bound to collapse into some form of a gold standard practically right away as the printed, manipulated fiat transactional currency goes straight into hyperinflation without the anchor of "savings" to hold its value. You are the one who never responded to my criticism of freegold in that other thread from a while ago. Though you did seem to send a few people from the FOFOA blog to discuss that with me, which I appreciate.
Still stuck in a false pardigm; you have to drop your baggage to move forward. I doubt you will find physical gold to buy when you are ready to make the switch. That collapse will be like lightning as gold 'goes into hiding'. And many people are already ahead of you.
110 tonnes of gold is better than what they currently have for collateral...a big fat Greek nothing.
EUR 31,000 /oz is roughly USD 42,000/oz. This is in the range that Freegold advocates imply.
...which is bunk.
Look, it's important to recognize that aggregate production backs currency, along with assets, of which gold is only one component.
Gold does not and should not SINGULARLY back a currency. It's only a constituent, not the entire game.
Freegold doesn't 'back' currency. You don't understand the concept.
Go easy on him...it's Trav after all :)
This bullshit about floating currency is THE thing allowing central banks to print at will and steal a nation's wealth.
A currency must be tied to something physical of value people can exchange said curency for, to prevent unlimited printing of it.
There is no other way to keep bankers from using currency to rob everyone, facilitate unlimited government spending, and all those other fiat currency problems.
In not seeing that they didn't ask for silver
That's because they don't have any. And neither does anyone else.
That's the problem.
i thought china had dibs on the gold!
Hold the fucking boat!
The EU agreed to gold as collateral, but have the Greeks pledged the gold as collateral? Huh?
This sounds eerily similar to the French saying that everybody under the suns agreed to Christine LeGarde as new MD of the IMF, when most everybody else has said that we didn't agree to fuck all.
Moreover, since when have the central banlks of the world wanted to accumulate anything that's a barbarous relic, pay inordinate amounts of money to safely store same and accept as collateral for anything whatsofucking ever?
Oh, so it is a fiat currency alternative, after all!
A Global Gold Grab!
All hail the integrity of Central Bank Fiat Moolah!
Greece would love a return to the drachma but it can never be allowed as it would blow up all the eurozone banks.
They are trapped.
it can never be allowed
Who is going to stop them? Desperate people do desperate things, consequences be damned!
The politicians in the rest of the Euro-zone will not allow it because if Greece leaves the Euro and defaults on their debt (which would be the reason to leave) the rest of the Eurozone is toast. Their financial system collapses, the world ends and all the rest of the lies we heard when the US Federal govt grabbed unheard of new powers because there was an apocalypse ahead.
The powers that be in Euroland retain that power because of the status quo. If the Eurozone ceases then these fucks are shit out of luck and scrambling to cobble together some sort of power structure but that is highly unlikely as the people will be rioting in the streets, burning shops and looking for scapegoats.
The powers have to hold it together or they are fucked and fucked they will not be. It will be the citizens who will be fucked as these assholes grab more power under a federalization plan which will be sold as a way to save everyone but will be nothing more than poverty for all and more power for a few.
well, greece is 'not allowed' right now because the politicians in charge in greece still depend more on forces in brussels or london or frankfurt or wall street than they do on anything in greece. However, like most scenarios where you have a single concentrated source of wealth and a struggle to control that source (in greece this source is one of the worst kinds, it's the ability to borrow money on behalf of the state), the whole picture has been distorted in greece especially since the borrowing flood was opened post-1981.
What none of these people is expecting is the fact that just as that flood of money distorted the picture and made the politicos more dependent and concerned about their new masters outside of greece, this flood of money is gone now. it's reversing direction and those politicos are going to find that unless the EU and pals are ready to deploy a quarter of a million troops to conquer greece outright, those politicians are on their own. They'll be
expected to hand the country over to their masters, sure, but greece has nothing worth the expense and political cost of using real force, no oil, etc. what will happen? well, inside
greece shit will melt down, and if political power in greece suddenly depends more on support (or lack of it) within the country, the politicians will be fighting desperately among themselves for scraps. If they dont default before then, they will default then, and somebody will definitely want to get his hands on even a half-assed money printing machine.
The EU imperials really have no idea how to handle this kind of situation, but they are
not going to send in troops, so all they can do is try to sort of adopt whatever happens
in greece as somehow still inside their family. Their bigger concern will be how to contain
it and not set a precedent for ireland, portugal, etc.
bigger voices in greece (still from political scumbags, but this is an indication that they
are getting a lot more vicious amongst each other) are starting to call for a referendum on leaving the euro... for the politicians, that is a hand-grenade kind of threat, if you see
this echoed in the next few days in the parliament, it will be an interesting datapoint.
I'll believe that Greece will leave the EU when it happens. I think all the threats and demonstrations are much ado about nothing. The political leaders in Greece have always done what the ECB/IMF want. I've seen nothing to indicate that they will stand up to their masters.
i'll agree with you about most of the demonstrations- those are, so far, mostly organized by unions and lefty politicians. Most of the organized bitching ad demonstrations have been people who have been riding the cheap seats on the gravy train for 20-30 years, afraid they will finally lose their peanuts privileges when that train derails.
this is going to start changing as the population at large is getting more and more pissed and more and more discouraged. The working people in the private sector in greece are being monumentally squeezed, the young people have shitty prospects, and the only way the state will even keep up the current level of squeezing, much less crank it up even further, will be by resorting to force... but in greece, the mechanisms of force are not
going to comply. The police will largely not follow such orders (they'd be more likely to go
on strike themselves!) and the army will definitely not follow such orders.
You say the politicos in greece serve the ECB/IMF (i'd add brussels, washington, etc
to the mix of masters), and i agree- but they serve those masters because that's where the money comes from. If they can't keep borrowing like this, and the money starts flowing out instead of in, then those politicians are going to find themselves in an unfamiliar environment. They will be at each other's throats for the crumbs, and in the middle of that,
since the ability to borrow more money from the old masters will be impaired, the printing press will be a one-shot formula for success for the guy who actually does it first.
This year? no. next year? eh, maybe maybe not.
in 5 years the current greek state will be irrelevant one way or another. maybe there will be a brussels appointed regent/duke/prince shithead in athens thinking he's in charge, maybe there will be an 'elected' government acting like its in charge, but the reality will
be a tangled maze of fiefdoms, monopolies, syndicates, and honchos. Municipal and provincial governments will probably give most of the official structure to this, but as the current funding structure in greece is all top-down, the reshaping of provincial and local governments will be really weird, informal, people sitting in official positions but being paid
by some other channel, etc.
Thank you for your informative comments zuuuueri.
Damm, that's a pretty a pretty good assesment Zuuuueri..
Greece just THINKS it wants the drachma back.
Everyone, including Tyler, is failing to point out that if Greece really does say fuck you to the EU, the EU is going to come back blasting. They will clustershit the drachma to nothingness.
Greece is getting austerity or it's getting scorched earthed.
This wasn't a "big deal" when Iceland did it and yet still the Brits invoked terrorism and war powers to extract flesh. When do we see navies sail and armies move over this?
Return to the DRACHMA and fast. Politicians won't do it but the street will force it...
"They are trapped." No, they are not.
Early or later, Greece will default. The earlier one deals with a cancer the better.
PS
The old EU economic model when prosperous and highly productive EU members lent money to poor EU members to buy their products is dead now since the original greedy & speculative assumption that somehow these poor EU members would grow into prosperity through consumption was/is outright stupid.
And with the entry of former Eastern Europe in the EU the former low wage platforms Portugal, Spain and Greece have been replaced...Thank you very much, see you soon...
JAFA-Just Another False Alarm
Buy any and all dips.
ICE LAND.
COR-RECT!!! Whom would have thought that the first shot of the global revolution agaist the criminal banking cabal would have been fired in Iceland of all places, but they have shown others the way.
Take that big credit card bill Greece and put in the round file under garbage
All your gold is belong to us
http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Cats/CatsSunbathing.jpg
11. Eurozone banks require massive bailouts and renewed fake stress tests as all are insolvent due to failed Greek debt.
12. Euro QE progresses in earnest.
13. Port., Spain, Italy, Belgium, Ireland financial systems collapse and real riots break out.
14. Euro QE2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9......ensue
15. Eurozone Federalizes
15. Bernanke does away with QE, initiates "Perpetual Liquidity Program", US faces deforestation problem.
16. Eurozone Federalizes or breaks up and tensions in Europe begin to resemble 1935 (much more likely)
15. Eurozone goes up in flames; marking the beginning of WW III. (there, fixed it for ya...)
Supply comming into euro and stocks.
http://deadcatbouncing.blogspot.com/
You mean 'liquidity'?
And she is the Greek Commissioner.
I think we've entered the Twilight Zone.
You mean she was appointed to Europe by a government forcing austerity onto the country, and comes out fearmongering about leaving the Eurozone?
Gee, I guess there is no ulterior motive behind that one.
Why don't they have a referendum instead and see what the people who have to pay for this crap really think of the Euro and the EU?
Because the Greek government has their people's 'mandate' for the next few years? /snort
Ah yes. All is good then.
she's a longtime commie. in brussels she is in her native land, not in greece.
The USA should volunteer to join the EU so then the Fed can backstop all of Greece's debt. Might as well, we're already truly fucked, might as well bail out some more bankers before we hit the skids. After all, without the bankers, where would us peasants be? We owe them.
The Bernank is already backstopping Trichet, what more do you want?
For the uninformed - even Tyler Durden:
The majority Greeks believe that a return to the drachma would only worsen the country’s dire economic situation while nearly a third think it likely that Greece will exit the eurozone, according to a survey carried out by polling firm Public Issue on behalf of Kathimerini.
The survey, which was carried out on a sample of 500 people from across the country earlier this month, showed that 66 percent believed things would get worse for Greece if it gives up the euro and returns to its original currency. Only 16 percent said they thought life would improve with the drachma while 10 percent said they thought nothing would change.
As for the possibility of Greece leaving the eurozone - an eventuality that the country’s international creditors have ruled out but which remains the focus of many speculators - only 28 percent of respondents said they regarded this as a likely scenario.
The survey revealed that most Greeks - though not an extremely large majority - support the euro.
A total of 58 percent said they believed being part of a common European currency was good for Greece.
The percentage has fallen since 2001 when the euro came into circulation in Greece and when 72 percent of Greeks had expressed their support for it, according to the European Union’s statistics service. The rate of Greek support was above the eurozone average of 66 percent.
Over the weekend Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou and senior officials of the European Central Bank - one of Greece’s foreign creditors - ruled out debt restructuring once again despite calls last week by Eurogroup Chairman Jean-Claude Juncker for “a soft restructuring” that would be carried out by extending the maturities on Greece’s debt. The ECB fears such a move would destabilize the euro.
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_.../05/2011_391740
I stopped at 500 people.
500 people is a rounding error.
Then what is the chance that 500 other people say something entirely different? With 500 on a pop of 10m you typically get a +/-5% confidence error.
Suggest you read up on statistics before making such a comment. This is as good as any Gallup poll. They only polled 1000 people to represent the USA. Half that for a country the size of Greece is much more significant than that.
consider also that kathimerini , as a newspaper, has historically (since the 80s) been close to the PASOK party (the one currently in power), and more recently (past few years) gotten some attachement to the NYT/IHT media machine... not quite what you'd consider a reliable source on this topic.
"A total of 58 percent said they believed being part of a common European currency was good for Greece."
Tell you what - let's ask the question again when the inevitable happens (if Greece does not leave the Eurozone) and an unelected supranational team from the EU/IMF/ECB arrives in Greece to formally take charge of the government of the country and commences selling off Greek land and assets while implementing massive austerity. I think the results might be revealing.
since when does it matter what the plebs are thinking?
As long as they remain convinced by the charade of 'Democracy' where they can vote to change the faces but not the policies then, as you say, the plebs' opinion does not matter. Things take on a somewhat different slant, though, when the plebs take to the streets en-masse and start lobbing petrolbombs cf. Egypt etc.
The Greeks appear to be approaching that point rapidly. Of course, after the revolution, all they will have done is change the faces in power again, but there is a strong possibility that the repercussions will bring down the Euro in the meantime.
The survey revealed that most Greeks - though not an extremely large majority - support the euro.
A total of 58 percent said they believed being part of a common European currency was good for Greece.
Stockholm Syndrome indeed!
I guess they'll suffer some more until they effing get it.
Absurd.
Let's do the poll again after they figure out which state assets they are required to sell, and when they finally see real austerity, not this girly man variety.
I hear that Greek real estate brokers are accepting offers on the Parthenon.
Don't buy it. That place is falling apart.
Sure, in 2001 the EUR *was* good for Greece and Spain. Low interest in the light of high deficit is usually seen as a godsent (in the long run it isn't but that's a different story).
A total of 58 percent said they believed being part of a common European currency was good for Greece.
'Was' good. Not 'is' good.
so Germany may wind up owning most of Europe at some point?
the more things change the more they stay the same
who owns germany??
Maria Damanaki (Greek: Μαρ?α Δαμαν?κη) is a Greek politician, former president of the Synaspismos party of the radical left and currently a ....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Damanaki
Radical Left.
Heaven preserve us.
I wonder what the "Redical Right" think.
May 25 (Reuters) - Greece must take tough measures to deal with its debt crisis or it will have to return to the drachma, the EU's Fisheries Commissioner Maria Damanaki said on Wednesday.
"I am forced to speak openly," Damanaki was quoted as saying in a statement by the semi-official Athens News Agency. "Either we agree with our lenders to a programme of tough sacrifices ... or we return to the drachma."
Damanaki, appointed by the ruling socialists, said Greece's biggest postwar achievement, joining the euro, was at risk and all else was secondary. (Reporting by George Georgiopoulos)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/25/greece-euro-idUSATH00610520110...
"... said Greece's biggest postwar achievement, joining the euro, was at risk and all else was secondary"
These people are insane.
Hmmm...how many people have torture and communist party on their resume?
Maria Damanaki (Greek: Μαρ?α Δαμαν?κη) is a Greek politician, former president of the Synaspismos party of the radical left and currently a state member of the Hellenic Parliament within the Panhellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK).
She was born in Agios Nikolaos, Crete, in 1952. She studied chemical engineering in the National Technical University of Athens. As a student, she became a member of the Communist Youth of Greece (Greek: Κομμουνιστικ? Νεολα?α Ελλαδας, KNE), the youth section of the Communist Party of Greece (KKE). She became actively involved in the antidictatorial struggle and took part in the Athens Polytechnic uprising. She was the voice of the famous "Εδ? Πολυτεχνε?ο" ("This is the Polytechnic") radio broadcast from within the uprising, calling the Greek citizens to support. Damanaki was arrested and tortured by the regime.
http://wiki.phantis.com/index.php/Maria_Damanaki
So it would be accurate to call her a Cretin?
Cretin != Cretan
most of the 'radical right' (i suppose one might mean the Xrysh Aygh and pals) and 'nationalist right' (LAOS) are disgraced that they have been steamrolled into the brussels empire. maybe for different reasons, but basically all the other parties and movements which are not the 'big 3' (the ND 'new democracy', PASOK 'socialists', and KKE communists) tend to agree about the EU.
(the KKE plays the useful clown to the other two, they know their bread and butter is as a straw man 'opposition' of convenience)
BTW, LAOS (nationalist/right) and synaspismos (hypercommunists totally out of touch with reality) are the two parties which are consistently gaining with every election.
So in the long run there will be something like far right nationalist government with a far left hypercommunist opposition?
Sounds like fun to watch.
Seems to me, Greece will dance around as look as bailout money flows. As soon as it stopped they'll default and go back to the Drachma. They are simply playing Europe, trying to squeeze out bailout money, much like a conman strings along a victum until the victum figures out it was just a scam.
A Greek default is a guarentee, the only question is how long can they con the EU out of bailout money. The EU should have dropped Greece two years ago.
Blunt. But mostly true.
And if I were Greece, I wouldn't even consider giving gold as collateral on the any 'next' loan. It's really the only valuable thing the Greek government has in their possession.
I'd call the EU's bluff and restart those Drachma presses.
Except 'Greece' isn't getting the bailout money. Its creditors are.
Greece has approx 111 tons of gold
111 tons is approx 111,000,000 grams
The current price of gold is approx EUR 35 per gram
So Greece's gold is worth EUR 3,885,000,000
Four billion Euros ain't nothing compared to the trouble these boys (Greece, EU, ECB) are in.
an ounce is 28.3 grams in avoirdupois oz. One troy ounce (ozt) is equal to 31.1034768 grams.
16 ounces in a pound = 452.8 grams
32000 ounces in a ton = 905,560 grams
111 tons = 915,521,160 grams
915,521,160 grams x 35 eur = 32,043,240,600 Euro
I may be off, but 111 tons is way more than that.
yes, you are off. one ton is one million grams. 111 tons is 111million grams.
111 million times 35 eur is ~3.8 billion euros.
Here guys, watch this (starting at 1:30)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWS8Mg-JWSg
Yes, you are right. I double checked and he was correct. My calculation was off. Thanks for setting my thinking straight.
So in a nutshell, greece should take more bailout money and buy more gold...then reissue the Drachma at least partially backed my metals.
indeed, if they could get more bailout money, use it to a, buy gold, and b,
buy back & retire their own debt at , say, 5 cents on the dollar, that would be a nice move.
but, of course, the people in charge in greece still have their heads so far up the asses of
people in brussels that such an independent thought simply wouldnt occur to them.
Nope. 1 ton=907,184.7 grams
1 TONNE (aka metric ton), on the other hand, is one million grams.
i think this gold when accounted in tons is accounted in tonnes.
Large anti-austerity protest today at 11am EST scheduled at Sytagma sqaure in Athens. Should be fun. I pulled out my grandpa's 2 billion drachma bills from WWII from the basement this week. Should come in handy soon when they leave the Euro.
"If a donkey were a cat, it could climb a tree"
--J.C. Juncker
I have nothing to add...
FIRE BOMB A BANKER!
Coming from the European Commissioner for Maritime Affairs, i would have liked to hear :
Release the hounds on the biggest tax evaders, the greek shipping industry.
And cripple the dope trade? Don't be a buzzkill!
They packed up and moved to London a long time ago (as well as some other actual tax havens for banking purposes).
Rocks and hard places no matter where you look, but the idea is if we can only just print some more imaginary money its all somehow ok.
where are the spartans?
BBVA and STD both up.
Looks like the PIIGS crisis is over.
Time to buy stocks.
wow that is optimistic even by your standards :)
Wow! Over already!
For a while there, it was looking like default and disaster were on the horizon and approaching fast.
Glad to hear it's all sorted out now.
The sun is up.
Time for RoboSheep to mindlessly pump stocks.
Greeks that have accumulated PM's are just fine regardless of the flavor of fiat.
Gold $2000, Silver $70 seems quite reasonable if the underwater sovereigns can print money in Europe.
Get that Gold in Euros while it's "cheap".
The EU sure knows how to push a state to the brink. Too bad they don't realize the ECB's solvency as well as that of pretty much all Greek banks is hanging in the balance. WHoops
this much is true
ALERT!
CNBC ANCHOR.... ERR SALESMAN MARK "PHAT" HAYNES HAS DIED AT THE AGE OF 65.
"10. The End"
Au contraie Mon amie Tyler.....for this is just the beginning. Once Greece goes then we will see the others race for the exit door. I suggest the following order...
Ireland
Portugal
Italy
Most of Eastern Europe
Spain
UK (not in Euro, but in line for default)
All that will be left in the end will be France and Germany - the rest will leave of their own accord (without default) as the strengthening Euro (as the bad boys depart) will destroy their exports - and we all know that exports are the only way out of recession (according to the politicians handbook)
Don't see how it can be any other way.
Also don't see how Greece will not default.
EUR 31,000/oz? FREEGOLD!
Probably a bit higher, but yes.
Since there is no gold left in Fort Knox, the Globalists, backed by the Nato (er US Military) forces will liberate all of the gold in Greece, Lybia, etc etc. Lucky for the Icelanders; they have no gold worth pursuing. And some idiots thought that all economic and military interventions were and are for "humanitarian" reasons.
I can haz gold
This is the EU Fisheries Commissioner so not exactly the loudest warning to date - nobody is listening to her when she opens her mouth. The only thing the market is doing after she blabbed is making fish puns.
Just like the roach motel. You can get in but you can't get out.
So why do "investors" keep buying Greek and other bonds (including U.S.) if they are really worthless promises that are all destined to default. Why would supposedly rational humans buy such worthless trash in the first place?
Let Greece go back to the Drachma if they want, but good luck getting anyone to give them any money.
The markets have very short memories.
Besides... once Greece defaults, it'll be one of the very few solvent countries on Earth, with 0% GDP debt!
Do you mean Lybia and Zimbabwe are next super powers?
"So why do "investors" keep buying Greek and other bonds (including U.S.) if they are really worthless promises that are all destined to default. Why would supposedly rational humans buy such worthless trash in the first place?"
The people who make these buying decisions aren't (mostly) risking their own money. They are central bank bureaucrats who buy one another's bonds (sort of a circle jerk charade), or incorporated big banks with no personal partners' skin in the game, whose incentive is only to be as profitable in the short run as their competitors. Or funds, where again short-term underperformance is severely penalized, so everyone goes along with the crowd and they all march off the cliff.
Their bluffing - Greece should call them out.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OP9zbN8BLE
No need to worry folks, the man with the appearance of a bank clerk, the so-called EU-president who hasn't been elected as one and who nobody even knows, comes to the rescue:
05-25 10:24: EU's Van Rompuy says economic fundamentals remain solidHow long before they go for confiscation of private citizens/sheeple’s gold?
Any guess?
We know that game.
The Eurozone, when it was setup, took on too many countries with disparate cultural values and it now faces a critical decision juncture. The question of whether Greece can ever repay these loans isn't a question because they can't...pure and simple. The criteria for allowing countries to enter the EU allowed countries to rig their balance sheets for the few years they needed to during the "inspection" period to appear like they could be contributing members of the collective. The reality is now coming home that the EU basically allowed too many countries into the fold that were going to be welfare recipients. The IMF is only going to continue to do things that help the "IMF" which will have nothing to do with solving any problems and will only exacerbate the problem.
So where are we now? Greece, as a country, will either have to sell its soul and then still collapse.....or face the music and realize that they need to chart their own course. If Greece stays with the EU, eventually Greece will be a country in name only and the people, of the country formally know as Greece, will be working for their appointed EU Regent and function as a EU prefecture zone. The wildcard will be truly if the people of Greece are willing to rise up and take control of their destiny away from their politicians soon, because they are selling everything not nailed down and you can only do that once without revolution. The fate of Greece is already sown so deeply into its soil that it really would be better for them to take the pain of a triple by-pass surgery than to die later on from a full blown heart attack. I don't think they will change course and will be stripped clean and become a formal ward of the EU state.
This is Moral Hazard defined:
Perhaps remarkably, some banks even saw the drop in prices as a chance to increase their exposure to Greek bonds, so as to repo the instruments at full face value at the European Central Bank's open market operations. "One chief financial officer told me I was a complete idiot not to be buying bonds and that was only back in April," said one adviser, who asked not to be identified.
This is what happens when CB's screw with the markets, causing the mispricing in risk.
Now EY banks have over 100 billion in Euro exposure, through no fault but their own:
European banks remain saddled with almost 100 billion euros of Greek government debt they can't sell, hedge or ignore, after a number of recent deals to offload the exposure to reduce the impact of a possible default ended in failure, according to bankers involved.
And at the end of the day, instead of allowing Greece to restructure, and creating some sort of TARP to deal with the bank fall out, worse money will be thrown after bad, in an attempt to extend and pretend some more. Booyah to the Central Bankers.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/25/us-greece-shadow-ifr-idUSTRE74O2VM20110525
Europe is already a sort of Federation, if ECB care of this, Greece will remain in Eurozone.
Greece is a Mediterranean nation... people have other customs and rythms.
They move slower than nordik nations.
The globalists must understand that. Different regions move at different economic speeds.
Same happens in most Federated countries, yet there is no problem because poor regions always get more money from other rich entities via taxes.
I live in a very productive state (we are workoholics, and it is a rough, scarce resource, piece of land). We get about 10% back of our 100% federal contribution.
Yet our non-productive states, generate about 90% of our electricity.
We are co-dependent. Perhaps it is not so clear, but there must be a hidden benefit of having Greece in the EuroZone.
Obama is getting no love from the British Parliament.
Good God he's shameless.
I wish I could lie without conscience like that.
Don't pay too much attention to what she says. She is a nobody in Greek politics, that's why they send her to Brussels.
EU commissioner was a hint.
All hail the mega-state.
Papandreous is a suicide prime minister, this scumbag will comply to any EU requirements...
This guy and his government will be lucky to escape Greece alive by the looks of it. The same goes for many other politicians in other countries.
Dust off the drachma.
the ecb will support greece at least until the bankers can buy state assets for pennies on the dollar
this is all about trading worthless fiat currency for control of real weath, hard assets, gold state owned entities etc., and will play out around the world. The banker cabal's plan is moving into stage two. time to fight it, before its too late.
Bingo.
Unfortunately most people are trapped by the mold of their conditioning.
Today's troubles seem to match the Empire of Alexander (the Great):
http://www.katapi.org.uk/images/Maps/EmpireAlexanderHR.jpg
And what will happen when they return to the drachma? Devalue by 70%? That would make their exports more competitive, assuming they had any.
What the fuck does Greece produce? What export industry would a devaluation support? OK maybe tourism would get a boost but that alone will not support an entire country.
Anybody who thinks that a weak currency and further currency debasement (the whole point of the drachma) is a way for increasing economic output must have studied economics in the university of Zimbabwe under professor Ben.
The return of the drachma will bring its pain, but, at least, they are not slaves to the IMF and EU. If Iceland can be used as an example, they don't have much in the way of an economy....other than fishing.....and they still made the choice to tell the banks to pound sand. If the European banks made a bad bet on Greece, that's their problem and their own fault. Greece will be facing austerity either way either through more loans from the ECB and IMF or through devaluation by exiting the Eurozone. The question is which medicine is better and will, in the end, allow them to find a way to be a self-sustaining country again.
Next step (singular):
1. Restructuring (doublespeak for DEFAULT)
aND THeY STaY iN THe euRo Too!
Get real folks. Ask yourselves, what's the worst case scenario (for private investors that is, not public accounts) and you'll have the future in your sights.
When the SHTF, you've got to have a scapegoat - someone's got to pay the piper, and you can bet it ain't gonna be sovereigns. (Their voting base won't allow it. Isn't that becoming overwhelmingly clear? Well, maybe not in the STaTeS).