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EU: "Greek Eurozone Membership Is At Stake" And Greece Must Agree On Tough Measures Or Return To Drachma

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Wed, 05/25/2011 - 09:26 | 1308579 Mongo
Mongo's picture

IMF: All Ure Gold Are Belong To Us

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 09:58 | 1308702 quintago
quintago's picture

Recall how people felt when other, less-responsible people all around them were defaulting on mortgages they took out using bogus or inflated income/asset representations, and simply walked away from the losses?

Well, that is exactly how China is going to feel when the world reprices its debt in gold.

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:23 | 1308865 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Serves them right.

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:40 | 1308929 Ergo
Ergo's picture

"7.  Greece agrees"

 

Why would they agree to this, if they're going to just default anyway?  Perhaps I'm missing something.

 

As a mere guess: stupidity will rule the day, and the Greek tragedy will be dragged out until a point in time where it can do the most harm (such as in the middle of another downturn) and cause other dominoes to fall.  Everyone is playing this game as if another downturn can be avoided, even though the first one never bottomed, thus making the eventual severity much worse.

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 11:02 | 1309017 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

"Why would they agree to this, if they're going to just default anyway? "

Corrupt politicians owned by the Banksters...

Sound familiar??... USA! USA!

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 12:05 | 1309307 Clay Hill
Clay Hill's picture

Bingo.

And then right back to number three when the populace realises the social safety net isn't sustainable on the Drachma either.

Interesting times ahead.

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 12:13 | 1309326 Ergo
Ergo's picture

"Corrupt politicians owned by the Banksters... Sound familiar??... USA! USA!"

Oh yeah.  Silly me, thinking other countries might act in their own best interest. 

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 12:28 | 1309401 silberblick
silberblick's picture

they'll eventually return to the drachma; just wondering if they will loose all their gold and the Parthenon before they do.

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:40 | 1308933 goldfreak
goldfreak's picture

but I thought all talk about Greece leaving the EU were all baseless rumors HA HA HA

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:58 | 1308996 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

It ain't over till the fat lady sings.

And, as has been demonstrated, EU leaders lie, often.

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 11:01 | 1309022 Zeilschip
Zeilschip's picture

Isn't half of all US Treasury debt held by US firms / citizens?? That's excluding the Fed. So how would this hurt China and not the US?

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:40 | 1308932 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Norway's Frontline, which operates the world's largest oil tanker fleet, announced an 81-percent decline in net income for the first quarter compared to last year. The company issued a grim outlook...

 

The operator of the world's largest tanker fleet gives up on the global recovery

 

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 09:26 | 1308581 FOC 1183
FOC 1183's picture


EU: "Every Non-German Member Eurozone Membership Is At Stake"

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:09 | 1308790 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

please leave your membership card at the desk on you way out.

 

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 11:55 | 1309256 knukles
knukles's picture

Exactamundo.

Quit with the fucking Greek Tragedy (snigger) melodrama, Kabuki theater. 
1.) Just don't pay the interest or principle when due. 
2.) EU howls
3.) Tell 'em to go fuck 'emselves
4.) EU says you can't do that!
5.) Tell them to go fuck themselves; watch this.
6.) EU screams bloody murder
7.) Laugh in their face, imitate Gallic shrug
8.) EU claims Greek gold
9.) Greece says wasn't pledged to anybody.  Go fuck yourself.
10.) Greece announces reissue of Drachma, backed by coffee grounds, tourists brochures, ouzo, stale baklava, old 78 rpm Greek dance records and bare breasted beauties
11.) EU army invades Greece
12.) All 3 EU army soldiers surrender, get drunk on ouzo and learn Greek dances.

Who said 12 step programs don't work.

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 15:21 | 1310007 southsea13
southsea13's picture

LOL! 

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:37 | 1308917 LaLiLuLeLo
LaLiLuLeLo's picture

From its inception, the EU was destined to fail. Packaging some of the worst black market economies together, lending them money for phony construction projects and putting a shinny EU sticker on them was a terrible move. Maybe this time, someone will actually pay for their mistakes.

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:51 | 1308975 citta vritti
citta vritti's picture

someone always does, just not who’d you hope would be paying, in a retribution sort of way

original captcha was minus 27 times 31 equals ? but then it said math question cannot be longer than 3 characters but is currently 4 characters long. oh well.

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 11:11 | 1309043 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Remember: No good deed goes unpunished...

minus CAPTCHA never works and the wrong people always have to pay...

BTW: CAPTCHA has been fucked ever since Marla disappeared...

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 09:27 | 1308584 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

futures might as well be green....

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 09:31 | 1308588 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Tyler, I thought you said the other day that the notion of a return to the Drachma was out of the question?  What has changed?

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 09:39 | 1308613 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

Europe agreed to gold as collateral (see first post this am)

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 09:57 | 1308698 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Which I'm sure has Ben's thong in a bunch.  He's probably been walking funny all morning.

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:02 | 1308727 tmosley
tmosley's picture

So Europe now thinks that the 110-odd tonnes of gold owned by the Greeks is enough compensation for the catastrophe that will follow a Greek default?

If so, they must value gold a lot more highly than the spot price.

The Greek debt to the Eurozone is at least 110B euro.  Greece has 110 tonnes of gold, implying a valuation of 1 billion euro per tonne, or ~31,000 euro per troy oz.

Where am I wrong?

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:32 | 1308772 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Congratulations, you just took a step to understanding freegold. CBs already value gold much higher.

Unfortunately you are still backing the wrong horse.

No reply? You must be considering the ramifications of your mistake. Is that fear and doubt that you feel?

 

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 12:43 | 1309461 tmosley
tmosley's picture

No reply?  You're not really claiming someone is feeling "fear and doubt" for not replying before you finished writing your replay, are you?

I am well aware that gold is far undervalued.  Thing is, so is silver--to a much greater degree.  ESPECIALLY in the short term.  In fact, I have stated many, MANY times that I will switch from silver to gold during the course of the industrial user panic that follows the COMEX default.  Gold can then be ridden through the dollar collapse, and be exchanged for productive capital on the other side.  This is the blueprint to becoming an oligarch in the coming years.

The fact that central banks value gold highly has NOTHING to do with freegold.  That system is still bound to collapse into some form of a gold standard practically right away as the printed, manipulated fiat transactional currency goes straight into hyperinflation without the anchor of "savings" to hold its value.  You are the one who never responded to my criticism of freegold in that other thread from a while ago.  Though you did seem to send a few people from the FOFOA blog to discuss that with me, which I appreciate.

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 13:49 | 1309674 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Still stuck in a false pardigm; you have to drop your baggage to move forward. I doubt you will find physical gold to buy when you are ready to make the switch. That collapse will be like lightning as gold 'goes into hiding'. And many people are already ahead of you.

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:09 | 1308776 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

110 tonnes of gold is better than what they currently have for collateral...a big fat Greek nothing.

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:07 | 1308779 proLiberty
proLiberty's picture

EUR 31,000 /oz is roughly  USD 42,000/oz.  This is in the range that Freegold advocates imply.

 

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:17 | 1308815 trav7777
trav7777's picture

...which is bunk.

Look, it's important to recognize that aggregate production backs currency, along with assets, of which gold is only one component.

Gold does not and should not SINGULARLY back a currency.  It's only a constituent, not the entire game.

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:19 | 1308827 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Freegold doesn't 'back' currency. You don't understand the concept.

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:34 | 1308908 Stormdancer
Stormdancer's picture

Go easy on him...it's Trav after all :) 

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 18:27 | 1310675 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

This bullshit about floating currency is THE thing allowing central banks to print at will and steal a nation's wealth.

A currency must be tied to something physical of value people can exchange said curency for, to prevent unlimited printing of it. 

There is no other way to keep bankers from using currency to rob everyone, facilitate unlimited government spending, and all those other fiat currency problems.

 

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:15 | 1308808 trav7777
trav7777's picture

In not seeing that they didn't ask for silver

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 12:45 | 1309466 tmosley
tmosley's picture

That's because they don't have any.  And neither does anyone else.

That's the problem.

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:28 | 1308882 sabra1
sabra1's picture

i thought china had dibs on the gold!

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 11:59 | 1309269 knukles
knukles's picture

Hold the fucking boat!

The EU agreed to gold as collateral, but have the Greeks pledged the gold as collateral?  Huh? 

This sounds eerily similar to the French saying that everybody under the suns agreed to Christine LeGarde as new MD of the IMF, when most everybody else has said that we didn't agree to fuck all.

 

Moreover, since when have the central banlks of the world wanted to accumulate anything that's a barbarous relic, pay inordinate amounts of money to safely store same and accept as collateral for anything whatsofucking ever?
Oh, so it is a fiat currency alternative, after all!

A Global Gold Grab!
All hail the integrity of Central Bank Fiat Moolah!

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 09:39 | 1308614 ATM
ATM's picture

Greece would love a return to the drachma but it can never be allowed as it would blow up all the eurozone banks.

They are trapped.

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:09 | 1308770 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

it can never be allowed

Who is going to stop them?  Desperate people do desperate things, consequences be damned!

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 15:17 | 1309975 ATM
ATM's picture

The politicians in the rest of the Euro-zone will not allow it because if Greece leaves the Euro and defaults on their debt (which would be the reason to leave) the rest of the Eurozone is toast. Their financial system collapses, the world ends and all the rest of the lies we heard when the US Federal govt grabbed unheard of new powers because there was an apocalypse ahead.

The powers that be in Euroland retain that power because of the status quo. If the Eurozone ceases then these fucks are shit out of luck and scrambling to cobble together some sort of power structure but that is highly unlikely as the people will be rioting in the streets, burning shops and looking for scapegoats.

The powers have to hold it together or they are fucked and fucked they will not be. It will be the citizens who will be fucked as these assholes grab more power under a federalization plan which will be sold as a way to save everyone but will be nothing more than poverty for all and more power for a few.

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:09 | 1308773 zuuuueri
zuuuueri's picture

well, greece is 'not allowed' right now because the politicians in charge in greece still depend more on forces in brussels or london or frankfurt or wall street than they do on anything in greece. However, like most scenarios where you have a single concentrated source of wealth and a struggle to control that source (in greece this source is one of the worst kinds, it's the ability to borrow money on behalf of the state), the whole picture has been distorted in greece especially since the borrowing flood was opened post-1981. 

 

What none of these people is expecting is the fact that just as that flood of money distorted the picture and made the politicos more dependent and concerned about their new masters outside of greece, this flood of money is gone now. it's reversing direction and those politicos are going to find that unless the EU and pals are ready to deploy a quarter of a million troops to conquer greece outright, those politicians are on their own. They'll be 

expected to hand the country over to their masters, sure, but greece has nothing worth the expense and political cost of using real force, no oil, etc. what will happen? well, inside

greece shit will melt down, and if political power in greece suddenly depends more on support (or lack of it) within the country, the politicians will be fighting  desperately among themselves for scraps. If they dont default before then, they will default then, and somebody will definitely want to get his hands on even a half-assed money printing machine. 

 

The EU imperials really have no idea how to handle this kind of situation, but they are

not going to send in troops, so all they can do is try to sort of adopt whatever happens

in greece as somehow still inside their family. Their bigger concern will be how to contain

it and not set a precedent for ireland, portugal, etc. 

 

bigger voices in greece (still from political scumbags, but this is an indication that they

are getting a lot more vicious amongst each other) are starting to call for a referendum on leaving the euro... for the politicians, that is a hand-grenade kind of threat, if you see

this echoed in the next few days in the parliament, it will be an interesting datapoint.

 

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 11:25 | 1309119 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

I'll believe that Greece will leave the EU when it happens. I think all the threats and demonstrations are much ado about nothing. The political leaders in Greece have always done what the ECB/IMF want. I've seen nothing to indicate that they will stand up to their masters.

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 11:57 | 1309276 zuuuueri
zuuuueri's picture

i'll agree with you about most of the demonstrations- those are, so far, mostly organized by unions and lefty politicians. Most of the organized bitching ad demonstrations have been people who have been riding the cheap seats on the gravy train for 20-30 years, afraid they will finally lose their peanuts privileges when that train derails.

this is going to start changing as the population at large is getting more and more pissed and more and more discouraged. The working people in the private sector in greece are being monumentally squeezed, the young people have shitty prospects, and the only way the state will even keep up the current level of squeezing, much less crank it up even further, will be by resorting to force... but in greece, the mechanisms of force are not

going to comply. The police will largely not follow such orders (they'd be more likely to go

on strike themselves!) and the army will definitely not follow such orders. 

 

You say the politicos in greece serve the ECB/IMF (i'd add brussels, washington, etc

to the mix of masters), and i agree- but they serve those masters because that's where the money comes from. If they can't keep borrowing like this, and the money starts flowing out instead of in, then those politicians are going to find themselves in an unfamiliar environment. They will be at each other's throats for the crumbs, and in the middle of that, 

since the ability to borrow more money from the old masters will be impaired, the printing press will be a one-shot formula for success for the guy who actually does it first. 

This year? no. next year? eh, maybe maybe not.

 

in 5 years the current greek state will be irrelevant one way or another. maybe there will be a brussels appointed regent/duke/prince shithead in athens thinking he's in charge, maybe there will be an 'elected' government acting like its in charge, but the reality will

be a tangled maze of fiefdoms, monopolies, syndicates, and honchos. Municipal and provincial governments will probably give most of the official structure to this, but as the current funding structure in greece is all top-down, the reshaping of provincial and local governments will be really weird, informal, people sitting in official positions but being paid 

by some other channel, etc. 

 

 

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 11:27 | 1309142 M.B. Drapier
M.B. Drapier's picture

Thank you for your informative comments zuuuueri.

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 12:11 | 1309330 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

Damm, that's a pretty a pretty good assesment  Zuuuueri..

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:21 | 1308838 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Greece just THINKS it wants the drachma back.

Everyone, including Tyler, is failing to point out that if Greece really does say fuck you to the EU, the EU is going to come back blasting.  They will clustershit the drachma to nothingness.

Greece is getting austerity or it's getting scorched earthed.

This wasn't a "big deal" when Iceland did it and yet still the Brits invoked terrorism and war powers to extract flesh.  When do we see navies sail and armies move over this?  

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:39 | 1308913 Mountainview
Mountainview's picture

Return to the DRACHMA and fast. Politicians won't do it but the street will force it...

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 10:57 | 1308988 caconhma
caconhma's picture

"They are trapped." No, they are not.

Early or later, Greece will default. The earlier one deals with a cancer the better.

PS

The old EU economic model when prosperous and highly productive EU members lent money to poor EU members to buy their products is dead now since the original greedy & speculative assumption that somehow these poor EU members would grow into prosperity through consumption was/is outright stupid.

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 11:36 | 1309189 Mountainview
Mountainview's picture

And with the entry of former Eastern Europe in the EU the former low wage platforms Portugal, Spain and Greece have been replaced...Thank you very much, see you soon...

Wed, 05/25/2011 - 09:32 | 1308596 LRC Fan
LRC Fan's picture

JAFA-Just Another False Alarm

Buy any and all dips. 

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!