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Europe Scrambles For Swiss Safety As EURCHF Plummets At Open To All Time Lows

Tyler Durden's picture


Someone is very, very nervous in Europe as it took precisely zero time for the various CHF crosses to plunge to all time lows. The chart below shows the EURCHF which just opened about 140 pips lower than the Friday close. And while there is little if any movement in the crap currencies, i.e. the USD and the EUR, the flight to fiat safety has never been as profound. Since the CHF is a direct proxy of gold in the commodities space, look for gold to take out $1,600 as early as a few hours from now when the market reopens. Also, expect a possible SNB intervention any minute as the Reuters IFR article below speculates.


From Reuters:

SNB's Vice-Chairman Jordan highlighted this week that not only were they "very concerned" but that they were "monitoring the euro franc exchange rate very closely". We now have suggestions that the Swiss would look to impose capital controls in order to limit safe haven inflows and thus CHF strength.

The comments from Jordan at the very least mean that the market will push out the timing of rate hikes and flatten the money market curve further. Under normal circumstances these lower yields would help to take the shine off a currency.

So what are the options? Firstly, capital controls while being in favour in the EM world and endorsed by the IMF as a policy option would likely do more damage than good to the Swiss economy. Its big banks (still too big to fail) have been hurt by the stronger CHF and talk of new round of job losses has already surfaced as a result.

Capital controls for an economy that gains much from its financial sector would not be appropriate. Second, there is the option of negative interest rates. A look at the Swiss interest rates implied by USD/CHF forwards shows that we are already there with regards to negative rates. If one works out the implied rate on the 3-month then we have a rate that is NEGATIVE 1.50-2.50%. So it is debatable whether a policy of officially shifting rates into negative would have any real impact.

This leaves the potential that when the SNB deems the CHF to have increased the risks of deflation we may get more action on 1) either the intervention front or 2) government support for exporters to help compensate for the stronger CHF.

Which is preferred will depend upon whether the SNB can overcome the criticism of its prior aggressive intervention which resulted in record losses last year. The problem with intervention is that the small open economy would be under pressure to meet what is a global demand for CHF and thus would continue to be ineffective. A better option is direct relief to the exporters but at the very least the concerns over CHF strength means that rate hikes from the SNB is still some distance away.

So far the concern that the SNB will do anything is not preventing traders from pushing the EURCHF to the unprecedented border of 1.13 any second. Next up: rumblings of Euro-Swissy parity?


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Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:21 | 1464385 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

If the banking system is fucked the Franc is fucked.

I think its a irrational move - although I guess we all know you can make serious money from irrationality.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:37 | 1464446 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Agreed.   For whatever reason folks still think the Swissy is a proxy for a gold backed currency - even though it hasn't been for a while and has  exposure in Eastern European debt.   But, I for one, have been riding a small position - will be tightening stops for sure

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:10 | 1464542 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Prescient, given the itchy trigger-fingers of the SNB. At least buy some chocolate on your way out. ;)

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 01:20 | 1465476 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

This latest move isn't much the CHF going up. CHF has been going up against all lately yes. But now the move has to do more with the EUR on it's final descent to the dustbin of history.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 02:21 | 1465547 oldman
oldman's picture

There might be an impression in the minds of individual investors that it would be smarter to hold a currency of a country that has a long history as a safe haven and an independent, stable, and well-ordered society without a military budget, AND a very large gold reserve for the size of its population, rather than have ALL of one's funds in dollars, euros, yen, etc. In a squeeze the Swiss could and might return to gold backing easier than most nations with an international reputation as bankers.

It is too small to be the reserve currency, but that might not be such a bad idea when so many other currencies are under great pressure with no where else to go but------

Just a small self-funded insurance policy that is time proven against this type of collapse

I heard this argument made in the 1970's an 1980's by very conservative bankers in the US who also thought gold was the only true money but needed some funds in cash.

They always laughed at anyone who asked about selling gold saying, "serious people do not sell gold". I thought they were too conservative then and am only now beginning to understand what they meant.

Comments welcome---my education is certainly incomplete        thanks    om

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 07:00 | 1465692 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

for what it's worth-

I don't think there is any chance of CHF returning to even a fractional gold standard.  The way I read the SVP plan was that there would be a parallel floating Gold Franc (predominantly for the isolationists and gold bugs in the domestic market).  Right now the EUR is used in parallel with CHF in many places, so adding another is not that big a deal, especially compared to previous FFranc/DMarc/ILira/ASchilling days.  Perhaps a native German (or French, or..) speaker can clarify that point, since if the Federal government doesn't pass legislation (and arrive at some bizarre compromise to do so) then the specifics of the current SVP plan should be reflected in a national referendum. 

CHF speculation is predominantly and exactly that (speculation as opposed to safety) because the SNB, for all practical purposes, either recycles the demand for CHF right back into foreign fiat reserves or outright creates CHF (which in any non-bizzaro-word would devalue the CHF).  Even though the two primary practices should result in either no net fluctuation or outright depreciation the CHF strengthens. 

The relatively small government debt market (federal/cantonal) is peculiarly insular (in usual Swiss fashion), domestically focused and driven, and rather divorced from F/X.  The exit from the CHF speculation/fear hedge could also be problematic - the ride down is often faster than the ride up, and the central bank and all the exporting businesses benefit from it, so the motivation to intervene to prevent fiat depreciation doesn't exist to the same degree in Switzerland as in other developed markets.  Also the SNB, ECB, and PBoC have a strong motivation to weaken the CHF against EUR to prevent certain other European economies from being viewed in the same light as the PIIGS (or Iceland, depending if one is viewing from the lenders' or borrowers' perspective). 

Then there are the two big banks, which account for a huge portion of the external debt and also a significant portion of GDP.  As far as I know, there aren't any other central banks that openly scream and put in their official publications "Too Big To Save" which could get interesting when the shit starts to hit the G14 banks. 

For all the external strength of the CHF, the domestic purchasing power is a joke, even for imported goods (which of course don't actually get cheaper as CHF strengthens). 

Because I live predominately in Switzerland, I am in CHF by default.  Both personally and professionally I hedge my currency exposure, but in theory a hedge costs money and doesn't make money unless someone is wrong in their predominant investment/trade thesis.

Reversion to the happy mean in Switzerland to many Swiss means a return to a boring, bland, and weak fiat - and the rest of the world be damned. 

good luck   

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:06 | 1464529 So Close
So Close's picture

Gold and Silver should benefit form flight to safety.   In looking at the latest COT silver position reports I see there are still way more silver shorts than longs.  What do they know/think that I/we are missing.   Am long PM's.... just looking for the sucker punch....  Ideas?



Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:16 | 1464562 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Depends on what you mean.  There is always a huge net short silver position on the part of the 'Large Commercials' category, but there is, really, only one trader behind them - our old friend JPM.  What do they know?  Well, they know that the Fed has their back and will cover them for any losses incurred in their mission to suppress the price of silver on behalf of the Fed.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:00 | 1464687 So Close
So Close's picture

Thank you Quintus...    Have heard of the positions but had not actually seen the numbers.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 19:50 | 1464957 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

huge net short could have been covered when the CME "soared" margin requirements a few months back--if the rumor was true at all--and it sure had all the appearances given the outright panic by the regulators at the CME. My guess is they're acting like the French General in charge of defense when the Wermacht attacked France in 1940.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:17 | 1464566 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Honestly, I don't understand the mechanism fully since I only buy physical PMs with cash, but it is my limited understanding that shorting PMs on the Comex is the safest way to actually purchase large volumes of PM.  

If I have it right, and there's no guarantee here, it covers the purchaser both ways.  If the short suceeds and the price drops, they are paid the difference in currency.  If the short fails, they can take physical delivery (if the Comex has it, that is) by paying the for the metal at the initial short price.

I could be way off, though- the whole thing is outside of my personal experience.


Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:32 | 1464607 So Close
So Close's picture

Thank you sir...  I appreciate it..  Did not consider that.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:01 | 1464628 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

I am not a paper metals trader. 

However, if the "short fails" and the price of the metal rises, then you would have to buy at a higher price (at a loss) to cover the short position.  There is no taking delivery, except possibly for whoever loaned you the metal, in this case Comex.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 19:11 | 1464875 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Thanks for the correction- I've heard the short = fastest way to ensure physical delivery quite a few times, but your explanation makes more sense.

Apologies for jumping in where I wasn't sure.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 19:57 | 1464966 Ponzi Unit
Ponzi Unit's picture

Longs TAKE delivery; shorts MAKE delivery.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 22:30 | 1465272 The Architect
The Architect's picture


Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:47 | 1464651 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

if outside your experience, then why take up space with statements rather than specific questions?

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 20:16 | 1464996 magis00
magis00's picture

"I miss 100% of the shots I don't take."

-- Wayne Gretzky

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:46 | 1464642 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture

...what do they know? Good question, so tough to figure this one out, think I'll listen to a tune while thinking about Black Swans Black Holes and Revelations.,1941-Pentagon_construction

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:00 | 1464678 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

hey, SoClose;  on the crimex, shorts = longs.  always, by definition.  there are just shy of 113K contracts open, up a bit over 1500 for the week. 

including option contracts, we have have abt 163K contracts involved, up a shade over 4K on the week.  [5,000 troy oz of silver/contract]

the figures are obscure, b/c the bullion banksters do not want people to be able to read the strategies behind their  positions.  or, as someone like david morgan might say, to hide the price-manipulating trading of the banksters. 

david morgan's analyses of these reports have been some of the prime data presentations to the CFTC over the past few years.  they still haven't dealt with his concerns, and neither side has "taken off the gloves" yet, except for a few minor screaming episodes.

so, the guy is a team leader, but i have disagreed with his "estimates" which he uses to analyze price possibilities. about six months or so ago, he (re-?) published his above-ground silver inventory estimate:  1 Billion troy ounces.  this is too low, i think, and it is a long analysis as to why, but my heretical opinion is based on world coinage figures.  any of you who know of or have the official RED BOOK of US Coins, published yearly since 1947, will have the same figures i look at for the US.  with re-melting of coin silver for many years, i'm not a very argumentative heretic, but i really do think he is low, possibly by, like, 3X, world-wide.  my point being that the "supply" is larger than the supply/demand price "forecasts" postulate.  possibly much, much larger.

when i write of "rivers of silver" i may be dead wrong, but i'm not kidding in the least.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:27 | 1464752 Manthong
Manthong's picture

OK, lets say 3 billion ounces.. at $40.00 oz (just spiked 50 cents on Globex), that's $120 billion, and only just less than half of what Timmy stole from FERS alone and will "reinvest" as soon as the next couple trillion of US debt is agreed to.

Very rare and way more precious than people acknowledge.. yet.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 20:21 | 1465009 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

i've always been partial to both Silver & the Lone Ranger

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 19:21 | 1464904 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

I'm okay with rivers of silver- my bet is on it being useful as an interim transactional currency for day to day expenses in a way that gold is not likely to be.  For that to happen, there need to be a lot of silver coins that can move into circulation.

Here's an interesting new thing, though:

If they can add some statistical tracking, it's got some real potential to help determine the physical spot prices of bullion without the comex.  I just hope they're not killing it by jacking up the transaction fees.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 21:09 | 1465098 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

the bullion banksters have quite the "trade" also.

as long as we have fiat, we can trade it for gold and silver (coins, etc) whether on ebay or elsewhere.  world-wide, wherever fiat exists (everywhere?)  it can be traded, locally, for gold and silver, except where restricted for poitical reasons. 

so, we already have this system in place, and working.  if you wish to use it.  PMs = all currencies, world-wide.  kinda medieval, but with supertankers and air travel.  and printing.  people call it names, like barbaric relic, or tradition, b/c they "believe" in fiat.  it should be called fiat/debt or maybe fiat/credit might be a bit softer and more palatable, which has 3 a's!  whatever people have is whatever people have.  it will be adequate for any collapse, by definition, since there really isn't much of anything else, moneywise, except smoke and mirrors, bullshit, promises, and legal tender, which should be filed under bullshit. 

fiat serves its functions, but if these greedy bastards blow the fuk outa their very own goose-that-laid-the-golden-egg situ, again, tough shitsky.  let the chips fall and move out smartly.


Sun, 07/17/2011 - 23:23 | 1465366 takeaction
Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:33 | 1464784 sheeple
sheeple's picture

LOL gold's touching 1598

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:23 | 1464388 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

EUR/CHF move is very long in the tooth and getting very extended.

I expect a dramatic reversal soon, as everybody and their brother in FX is band-wagoning and pyramiding on this "no brainer" trade.

I mean, really chasing FXF right now would be like the last minute IBD Mo-Mo Monkeys chasing LULU or FOSL.

Would you buy a gap up on this?



Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:29 | 1464411 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Other than the dollar, the AUD looks strong.  The!

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:53 | 1464498 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture


I've noticed you haven't posted charts in about a month or two.  Has your contributor privileges been revoked? 

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:05 | 1464528 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Let's certainly hope so.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:18 | 1464565 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

+1. Pump-N-Dump boy has been outed!

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:10 | 1464544 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

Robot's been pumping for the $ for 6+months. Obliterated if you listened to him.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:33 | 1464610 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture


He's a trader and doesn't make any predictions past a day or two, and constantly comments on the lunacy of the markets.  Why is it so difficult for you idiots to understand this?  All you doomers have been dead wrong for over 2 years - it's probably about time for you guys to STFU.


Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:53 | 1464664 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

You can STFU. 

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:59 | 1464684 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture

Holy shit, that was witty!


Typical lower brain-stem libertarian.....

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:06 | 1464694 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

Hmmm, so you've been posting for a whole 7 weeks here and you've figured it all out! Probably been trading for 8 weeks then found a new guru to empty your account. Genius. I'm up roughly 210% over the past two years. Call my 900 number. I'll sell you a clue.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:08 | 1464703 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture


Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:21 | 1464737 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture

You're going to sell me a clue? 

Can I buy the letter "E"?

What are you, some sort of Pat Sajak wannabe?

If you want to play games, tell me where my socks are. I think they're under your bed, but your wife claims I never wore any. 

Help me solve this puzzle!

I'll buy an O!!  Can I buy a consonant?  How about a S and a K?

C'mon Big Money!  Big Money!  Big Money!


Mon, 07/18/2011 - 01:29 | 1465517 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

"Brother Silas drew a wife, Judas drew his pruning knife..."

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 19:32 | 1464924 snowball777
snowball777's picture


Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:22 | 1464749 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Care to elaborate over who has been wrong on what over the last two years?

I look around, and all I see is decay in the financial system, so much so that "the end of the world as we know it", aka government debt default, is actually talked about as a serious issue on MSM programs.

But then, you are just a troll, trolling for and with no reason nor purpose.

Why don't you change names again?  Maybe we won't see through you immediately next time!

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 19:13 | 1464879 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

wrong. epic wrong. robotard is a buy and hold, frozen deer in the headlights scared investor. through his own posts he owns mo, vz and hd. he has 30% of his money in the market. this information comes directly from the 'tard, not me. the last thing he claims to be is a trader given that he loses huge when he attempts to trade. that's why he posts so much. he's not trading. he's surfing the internet. and btw: if you think some of us are doomers then go read some of the 'tards early posts.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:22 | 1464389 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Gold, bitchez

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:51 | 1464489 phungus_mungus
phungus_mungus's picture

Can goods, shotguns and ammo bitchez...

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:09 | 1464539 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Beans, Bullets, and Bullion or Guns, Grub, and Gold.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:45 | 1464646 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture

Rednecks, trailer parks, white cone-shaped hats and doomer goons.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:59 | 1464682 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Stereotypes, liberal farces, Harriman-Bush, and Scull and Bones, snitch.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:13 | 1464720 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

seriously....who the fuck is that guy?

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:19 | 1464739 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Numerous aliases. William the Butthurt, GoldenDouchebag, etc...

Apparently he missed TD's classic smackdown on Robo just last week.

And look at the "doomer" trade. Gold up YOY +$400.50 +33.57%. Silver up $21.80 122%. 


Sun, 07/17/2011 - 19:12 | 1464877 I Am The Unknow...
I Am The Unknown Comic's picture

Unfortunately I missed the TD takedown.  Anybody got a link?  Even the name of the thread would be good and I'll go look it up.  If not that, then can anybody remember what day it was and I can scan the threads for that day.  I really want to see this.  When TD takes somebody on in Fight Club, it is generally spectacular. 

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 20:14 | 1464994 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Cue the banjo music.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:17 | 1464732 HITMAN56
Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:38 | 1464621 AccreditedEYE
AccreditedEYE's picture

+1  haven't seen it put so perfectly in a long time. haha

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:27 | 1464391 Debt Rolling
Debt Rolling's picture

Not sure how the CHF is safe... Switzerland is not what is used to be, especially in Vaud, Valais and Jura. As socialist as France and Belgium, with crappy banks like UBS and Credit Suisse which will bring the SNB with them when they fall apart. And they will fall apart if the eurozone falls apart.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:36 | 1464442 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[Not sure how the CHF is safe... Switzerland is not what is used to be...]---Debt Rolling


Swiss banks as vulnerable as the rest of them. Maybe the recent strength is coming from "tradition" as Bernanke would say. ;)



Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:23 | 1464393 Hulk
Hulk's picture

+ 6 bucks, but wake me up when Au has a $100+ day, because its a coming...

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:28 | 1464410 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

My hands are sweaty and I must hold onto my Silver. God, I think the old excitement are back for Gold and Silver.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:48 | 1464482 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[My hands are sweaty and I must hold onto my Silver. God...]---HungrySeagull

Easy there, Seagull. Push yourself awaaaay from your stack of silver.

Now. Take a deep breath.

Slowly repeat after me.

Everyone loses in a depression.

OK? Next. (deep breath)

I can't eat this silver.

There. Hope that helps. ;)


Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:13 | 1464551 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

There are winners in a depression. The winners are prepared and take advantage of the situation. All you need do is look to history and who the winners were. They are easily found in the history books.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:23 | 1464582 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Be prepared to buy when there is blood in the streets...

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:55 | 1464669 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

"There is more money to be made in the destruction of a nation than in the creation of one." -Rhett Butler

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 23:22 | 1465171 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[There are winners in a depression. The winners are prepared and take advantage of the situation.]---Long-John-Silver

Hi John. With all due respect you're not considering the big picture. 

Everyone loses in a depression; even those few who might amass wealth by "taking advantage of the situation."

I put to you identify one person whose quality of life was not greatly diminished---if not destroyed---by the Great Depression of the 1930's.

Who amassed wealth, yet was emotionally immune to the plight of their friends and family devastated by the depression?

Who amassed wealth, yet had no sleepless nights calculating how to secure and maintain that wealth?

Who amassed wealth that wished to enjoy those riches, yet could not for fear his/her carefree extravagance would attract the attention of wicked people?

Who amassed wealth that was not inconvenienced by interruptions in social services, e.g. such as a house fire gone unextinguished because the fire department was laid off?

Wealth will not fix your limo if the part needs to get shipped cross country and the shipping trucks are on fuel rationing.

You see. Every aspect of every one's life---even the wealthiest of us---will be adversely affected. Everyone loses in a depression.


(And hyperinflation? Same thing. We all lose.)


Sun, 07/17/2011 - 23:47 | 1465402 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I can certainly see your point.   The current situation is not one of "shared sacrifice" which is why it will ultimately fail.  When everyone is in the same boat (albeit a few sailing first class for sure) then the journey is not quite so bad.   Rising/falling tides move all boats, but some just don't even have a boat, and therein lies the rub.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 00:20 | 1465437 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[Rising/falling tides move all boats, but some just don't even have a boat, and therein lies the rub.]---RockyRacoon

You make my point far more succinctly than I. Thank you.

Take care, Rocky.


Mon, 07/18/2011 - 03:57 | 1465615 ViewfromUnderth...
ViewfromUndertheBridge's picture

the big pitcher...

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:33 | 1464611 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Everyone loses in a depression, but banksters lose the most because the inflationary subsidy will be taken away. The poor who never owned an asset to begin will lose the least relative to the super rich whose asset valualtion will come back down to earth.

US has come to a point where only depression might solve systemic problems.

No pain, no gain.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 19:43 | 1464947 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Yes, but i can trade it for food. And i can trade it for your wife. ;)

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 21:08 | 1465095 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

You're gonna want to work on those people skills if you hope to successfully trade your silver for food.

Here's a trading rule for you (you can thank me later by sharing your extra food with someone in need): Never trade hard stuff for soft stuff.


Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:26 | 1464400 lubyanka
lubyanka's picture

SNB still has by far the most gold (relative the size of the country) of any central bank out there. also, compare switzerland's current account to the US & PIIGS...

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:30 | 1464412 Debt Rolling
Debt Rolling's picture

The Swiss government does not hold a lot of debt, but the cantons, municipalities and private sector do. There is also a big real estate bubble fueled by socialist policies like allocations logement and eased lending.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:32 | 1464427 lubyanka
lubyanka's picture

interesting, i didn't know about that  - except for the real estate bubble. can you point me to some good reads on the swiss economy? 

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:38 | 1464449 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Nonetheless, they have the prettiest cows on the planet.  Musical too.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 08:08 | 1465823 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The real estate market here confuses me.  Prices are high and supply is short.  At the low end of the market you have masses scraping by and waiting to jump at whatever comes along.  On the high end, people take up residence in a hotel until they can find something "suitable" to them.  Prices can correct in a way which would hit leveraged or over-extended participants hard, but overall household loan debt is only 123% of household currency and deposits (SNB data).  If the structural subsidies are reduced or removed, prices (or wait times) would have to reduce to re-establish equilibrium.  But short of reducing agricultural land to build significant new homes, or a massive increase in unemployment (or an exodus of people absent that) how would it be possible to create a bubble "burst" anywhere near the degree witnessed in the US or Ireland recently (or Australia or Canada could face soon)?

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:13 | 1464552 Freebird
Freebird's picture

Yup. Without delaying tactics in terms of intervention we may have at least another 5% against Euro & USD here over the next couple of weeks.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:46 | 1464650 Going Loco
Going Loco's picture

Gold Council says Switzerland holds 1040 metric tonnes of gold which I calculate is worth USD 50b today (more tomorrow). This is not enough to make a big difference to anything unless AU is worth orders of magnitude more after the reset. Perhaps it will be.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:27 | 1464407 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Its still about the Dollar Bitches Vs Gold Bitches.

If this war thingy get going the Dollar could surge - for the first time I am thinking about switching some Euros for FRNs.

The Eurozone must increase its base.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:37 | 1464444 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

You mean print. OK, what would you buy if you were the ECB?

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:42 | 1464460 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Gold obviously - then it can produce more Euros which have no relationship to countries fiscal debt.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:27 | 1464408 Bang Dae Ho
Bang Dae Ho's picture

EUR and USD are collateralized by thin air .... is the CHF collateralized by even thinner air and everybody assuming thinner air is safer air?

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:03 | 1464523 DaBernank
DaBernank's picture

CHF is 45% USD, enough said.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:15 | 1464557 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

not sure what you mean, here, Da_B. 

USDX Components; Euro 57.6%, Yen 13.6%, Pound 11.9%, Canadian dollar 9.1%, Swedish krona 4.2%, Swiss franc at 3.6%

USDX Components

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:36 | 1464616 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

When foreigners buy Swiss Francs the Swiss Government doesn't just print useless debt to finance more government expenditure, the SNB tends to turn around and accumulate worthless foreign currencies on its balance sheet (a rather obscene amount per capita). I think his numbers are off since the current distribution is:

EUR 55.2%, USD 25.1%, JPY 9.6%, GBP 3.1%, CAD 4.2%, Other 2.8%

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:17 | 1464733 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

yes, i understand. 

CHF is 45% USD, enough said.

i told the person who wrote this i didn't know what it meant.

you don't seem to know what it means, either, but what you "think" is appreciated.  thxz.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 19:05 | 1464863 trav7777
trav7777's picture

the CHF denominates a lot of that repays or defaults, CHF gets strength

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:32 | 1464425 Silverhog
Silverhog's picture

Interesting chart. Looks like a chunk fell off and is sitting on the floor.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:47 | 1464478 Kali
Kali's picture

discontinuous function. Yikes! 

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:39 | 1464453 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Q: How many euroclowns can you cram into a Leblanc Caroline?

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 19:05 | 1464865 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Can we use a blender? Can we dry them first?

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 19:23 | 1464908 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

they want their mummy, that's for sure.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:41 | 1464459 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

United Nations Treasury

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:45 | 1464470 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Good point about the CHF and a gold proxy.  Sinclair (or Zulauf?) also made a similar point at KWN regarding USD and the DXY.

Said DXY is giving false signals as a barometer of currency strength since the basket is full of losing currencies measured against each other.... future is being shaped by commodity backed currencies such as the emerging market currencies, eg., Brazilian real.

"Price of gold is the real USD/currency index."  

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:45 | 1464472 johny2
johny2's picture

Who runs to safety of the fiat currency in the time of the fiat currency disaster? Much better to buy Gold or Silver in my opinion.  

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:26 | 1464592 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

It's a matter of timing.  I can't do it, good luck to you if you think you can.

When the wheels fall off, normalcy bias will keep stores accepting cash for a while, even as credit/debit cards and personal checks go right out the window.  It will be a while before gold or silver can be transacted directly.  

In that window of time, PMs will need to be exchanged for cash, and cash will strengthen for a while.  If you are holding cash, you may be able to buy silver or gold on the cheap from desperate people.

Seems pretty shady to me, though- I just buy and hold for now.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:37 | 1464618 johny2
johny2's picture

I have no idea what happens after the fiats die, but quite sure paper is going to buy much less PM than it does now. At least 10 times less.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 19:23 | 1464911 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

For a modern and prescient (like right now, this minute) check out the scramble for food in the latest version of fiat and government collapse, namely Belarus. The dictatorial Lukashenko government may be in power but they are bereft of any ideas other than more socialist control. They are scrambling for food and dumping cash to get it. Trouble is, once it is gone, farmers and suppliers could give a shit about paper IOUs in exchange for goods. The rest of the world has voted in the same way with Belarus denied access to foreign credit markets because of their over-indebtedness. Their currency is a piece of shit and everyone else's currency formula is based on the same dictate.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 19:26 | 1464916 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Ultimately, yes- there's possibly a short window between here and there, though.  Like I said, there's no way I'd be able to time it and won't be risking it.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 19:08 | 1464868 trav7777
trav7777's picture

gold and silver won't be transacted.  Some other paper will.  In no case of currency collapse have reserve wealth assets like gold been transacted directly.  If the USD collapsed, the CAD or BRL would take over.

People will find some other paper which still has some confidence behind it.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 19:39 | 1464937 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

In the case of something like the peso, yes- you're absolutely right.  In Argentina and Zimbabwe, they used USD.  But what happens when the global reserve currency goes toes-up? 

It could be swiss francs, canadian, or something else, but it could be barter only for a time.  I still think that silver will fall somewhat shy of the "to the moon" projections, but will be a reasonable alternative as a steady transactional currency, and it has the advantage of *not* being made of paper.  There are a lot of 90% coins hidden away in coffee cans and boxes.  Despite the occasional hysteria, I have not had any problem buying silver whenever I want to- the coin shop still has bags of silver dollars, and ampex does as well.  It's just the ASEs that are getting scarce, from what I can tell- though they're still all over ebay.

Of course, if it does go to the moon and is not being transacted, I'm sure going to try to purchase the water treatment plant and electric (hydroelectric dam) infrastructure in my town with the stuff.  It's only going to be at a lunar level until the new currency falls into place.  Hold it too long, and it's a wasted opportunity.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 01:30 | 1465513 johny2
johny2's picture

That is more or less one option that I believe in, other being that I will be drafted in a great "patriotic" war, and my silver is only maybe going to help my family and me avoid the worst.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:46 | 1464473 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

i care not about paper. paper means nothing to me......i am a metalhead, living on a hill, filling sandbags......

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:47 | 1464476 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Tyler, you should put on the deutche bank interview from this weekend.

They scared the shit out of every investor who watched it.

We're going to see a escape from the euro that will trigger much more shit real fast, real soon.


Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:57 | 1464509 geminiRX
geminiRX's picture

Do you have a link......I would like to see some comedy

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:57 | 1464510 partimer1
partimer1's picture

If you look at COT data, everything looks down this week. Could be a tough week.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:19 | 1464574 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

COT Gold, Silver and US Dollar Index Report - July 15, 2011

care to explain your "reasoning" for us? 


Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:02 | 1464511 Flore
Flore's picture

don't you morons know 66 % of the euro reserves are gold.... the reserves of uncle sam are (insert wind blowin sound here)..

all those thinking the euro is going to fail should read this

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:26 | 1464591 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

Actually not sure who got what data where, but the ECB has 502.1 tonnes of gold, which is about $18 billion in €, with over €812 billion € in circulation. According to our calculator, that's about 2% in gold...Uncle Sam has 8133.5 tonnes (nobody really knows if it is gold or tungsten). Or over $400 billion at current prices. USD in circulation: under $1 trillion, or 40% coverage.

Also, if anybody thinks that German will trade in its 3401 tonnes of gold to bail out Greece, well then, we have many bridges originating in Alaska to sell.

Not saying either one is better, but to claim that the EUR is better collateralized than the USD, by gold of all things, is about the funniest thing we have heard today.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:44 | 1464640 malek
malek's picture

You mean Germany's gold which is physically stored in the US for the biggest part?

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:44 | 1464811 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Or do you mean Jew gold, confiscated by the Germans, held by Jews in America?

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:47 | 1464817 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

that has been converted to gold plated tungsten?

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:52 | 1464833 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

All drug dealers cut their supply.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:44 | 1464641 Cassandra Syndrome
Cassandra Syndrome's picture


Nail on the head. The ECB took Irish Central Bank's gold reserves 6 yers ago and we only have 5 tons. One of the lowest in the world.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:27 | 1464762 LMAO
LMAO's picture

Yeah that was a touch off.


I think Flore is trying to tell us morons that the price of Gold has risen at an extraordinarily pace whilst all other "assets" on the ECB balance sheet are getting rapidly and increasingly worthless.

This resulting in a much heavier weight of Gold in € on the balance sheet even though the amount of physical held by the ECB has gone down with about 50,000 ounces since 1999.




Sun, 07/17/2011 - 19:12 | 1464837 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

It should not trade in it Gold - the stuff needs to be revalued.

And it is not bailing out Greece - its bailing out its export industry..... also imagine how many Germans will spend Drachmas in the Greek islands if the Euro is Kaput

It would have a huge export overcapacity if it went back to the Deutschemark & would suffer most at least in the short term (1-10 years).

Also I am not sure Germany really owns the shiny stuff - the Bundesbank seems to be more divorced from its state then any other CB bar the SNB and they have always had a close partnership.

We really don't know how the executive /CB relationship really works - I sense a growing distance between Frankfurt & Berlin now.


PS Tyler  - who gets the ECBs Gold if Europe goes back to national currencies ?

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 20:09 | 1464986 swissinv
swissinv's picture

I agree that you can't say that the EUR is backed in gold because no country would sacrify its gold reserve for the union. However, countries such as Italy and France should still have a lot of gold (unless not forever leased out). When it comes hard to hard and the EUR crashes, new gold backed currencies can be created. If you know the history of the dollar I think the chances are very small that the US is having the Gold reserve they are claiming incl. the Gold belonging to Germany. Thefore, the US has the biggest problem shall it comes to a total financial collaps or to a gold standard and the only solution to avoid this is war.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 20:30 | 1465026 lookma
lookma's picture

Nittery aside, Flore is talking about the Eurosystem, not the "ECB," because that is what is relevant - the Eurosystem -

I guess that's the rub, huh?  What's the "Eurosystem" all about?


Certainly no disagreement here:

Also, if anybody thinks that German will trade in its 3401 tonnes of gold to bail out Greece...


but to claim that the EUR is better collateralized than the USD, by gold of all things, is about the funniest thing we have heard today.

Yup, that's it exactly!  Team Gata = failwhale!!!

What is the "Eurosystem" all about?

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 06:26 | 1465666 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Whats is the Eurosystem all about ? - I will tell yaa

Its the Euro CBs getting all together with a single currency and screwing their respective Treasuries to a standstill.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 20:46 | 1465043 HedgedCanuck
HedgedCanuck's picture

Funniest thing I heard today was the sound of the FOFOA supporters in hysterics at Tyler's attempt to refute something he doesn't understand.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:11 | 1464716 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

euro reserves are gold

Correction.. euro reserves are tradition.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:31 | 1464778 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

If that is true than Gold must inflate to 50,000 Euros an ounce to cover all the debt.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 16:58 | 1464513 ThirdCoastSurfer
ThirdCoastSurfer's picture

With JPY likely to hit a $78 handle this week, another massive round of intervention comes from there first as the real move up in the FXF started with the initial dumping of nearly two trillion Yen back in March ($20b US) and it's not just the beef that's soon to be radioactive there in both the literal and figurative sense. 

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:26 | 1464594 jkruffin
jkruffin's picture

GOLD going $2000  Silver $75   sit back and ride the train........

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:30 | 1464602 jkruffin
jkruffin's picture

Also, its time to bring the Wall St fraud to an end,  GOOG, AAPL, AMZN, NFLX and all the other bloated bank stocks.....accounting fraud at its finest being allowed by regulators, yet they bankrupted Enron?  Go figure?  When you cheat, like changing the rules in the middle of the game as they have time and time again, you always end up the losers....

Republicans better not sellout the American people either with a sham debt deal....No debt ceiling increase is what the people have called for by a large percentage.  They need to do their jobs, not cut shady backroom deals.

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 01:50 | 1465533 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Republicans better not sellout the American people either with a sham debt deal....No debt ceiling increase is what the people have called for by a large percentage.  They need to do their jobs, not cut shady backroom deals.


Is that (future) knife in your back painful?  Realpolitik sez your theory is probably incorrect, regrettably.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:35 | 1464613 Broomer
Broomer's picture

I only have 4 CHF at home.

They are old ones, made of silver 835. Their melt value is 18.43 CHF.

LOL. Tu quoque, Helvetia.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:52 | 1464662 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Real question for the experts.

If you're locked into a 401-k with limited options, see below, What is the best way to minimize the coming losses, or profit by them?

OneAmerica Money Market

Janus Aspen Series Flex Bond

PIMCO Total Return

Manng & Napr Pro-Blend® Cons

Manng & Napr Pro-Blend® Extend

Manng & Napr Pro-Blend® Max

Manng & Napr Pro-Blend® Mod

OneAmerica Asset Director

AmCent Equity Income

T Rowe Price Equity-Income

Old Mutual Focused Fund

Pioneer Fund VCT

SSgA S&P® 500 Index

AmCent Ultra

Amer Fds Grwth Fund Of America

Goldman Sachs Mid Value

Columbia Mid Cap Index

Invesco Mid Cap Core Equity

Invesco Dynamics Fund

Allianz NFJ Small Cap Value

Pioneer Growth Opp VCT

Thornburg International Value

Amer Fds Capital World Gro&Inc

Invesco Energy Fund


Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:57 | 1464668 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

That's quite a pile of shit you have to choose from. 

I would say PIMCO TRF or the energy fund.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:28 | 1464767 Eric Cartman
Eric Cartman's picture


Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:30 | 1464774 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

+1 on the pos

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:51 | 1464830 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

stinky poopoo?  i'm not familiar with all these wonderful products, but i didn't see anything that reminded me of PMs. 

how often can he trade categories?  might be fun to pay these assholes back by daytrading the 401k on their time!

i like a category where the companies have pricing power.  let's say, tempting lightning to strike, something like Kraft or JNJ.  these mofo's have already raised their prices.  and now, their cost may be going down, at least in the short run.  so, they might look pretty fat, at least until the inflation kicks back in, but they will still have access to big capital markets (assuming there are any left)  and pricing power. 

so, it depends.  unless your employer is kicking in unbelievable big bux, why not pay the taxes and not have uncle sugar as a partner?  or start something you control & can buy stuff you like, and still defer taxes?

they make this shit so appealing when they "match" your hard-earned money with (borrowed?) USDs, tho, it seems you gotsta play.  good luck in the company casino!

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 19:47 | 1464953 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

You can't daytrade accounts like the one above.  IIRC, the one my employer offers allows an adjustment one per quarter, and it's got roughly the same options.  I stopped contributing quite a while back, but they won't let me close the thing.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 20:37 | 1465034 espirit
espirit's picture

Borrow against it, buy PM's, and laugh.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 23:20 | 1465360 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Already done, but I bought a year's worth of non-perishable food and ammunition with that.  The PMs get bought with the $$$ that used to go into the 401(k).

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 20:16 | 1464995 MadT
MadT's picture

you might consider taking out a loan against your 401k if you are still working. 

you can fix the interest at the current market rate and this interest is paid back into your 401k over time. you can borrow up to the lesser of 50% of your 401k or $50,000. 

take it out, buy PMs, pay back down the road with devalued USD. 

not much you can do for the rest of the portfolio, but at least you would get something of value from this maneuver and also avoid paying interest to the banksters.

caveat is that if you lose your job, the loan may be due within a short time frame.


Sun, 07/17/2011 - 20:27 | 1465021 Ponzi Unit
Ponzi Unit's picture

Given the risk of gov-forced investment in Treasuries as gov becomes inreasingly desperate, why not take the penalty, liquidate and buy physical PMs. You'll make back the 10% (?) hit in a hurry.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 22:38 | 1465293 StormShadow
StormShadow's picture

Hit is 20% tax and 10% early withdrawal penalty. Other option is roll it into independent IRA that allows PM purchases (risky though given govt intervention possibility)

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 05:17 | 1465638 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

The only way to withdraw is to quit my job.  I'm not about to do that even though my equivalent position makes in excess of 100 grand a year.  I make $65 grand.

The difference is travel time and involvement in local activities.   I made that choice consiously, and am quite satisfied with it, and will be last to be fired as a result. 

In reality, however, when the collapse comes, I will be just as unemployed as anyone else.  I just want to have enough nest egg to allow me to learn desert farming as possible.  I expect to pay the penalty on any loan or withdrawal, but I want to make as much as possible while the scam continues.

My plan does not allow much leeway.  I'm locked into these choices unless I quit my position as Corporate Controller.

The opinions of the Zero Hedge experts will be forwarded to my real, desperate, middle class, employees.  We are, really, counting on you to come through.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:54 | 1464667 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Real question for the experts.

If you're locked into a 401-k with limited options, see below, What is the best way to minimize the coming losses, or profit by them?

OneAmerica Money Market

Janus Aspen Series Flex Bond

PIMCO Total Return

Manng & Napr Pro-Blend® Cons

Manng & Napr Pro-Blend® Extend

Manng & Napr Pro-Blend® Max

Manng & Napr Pro-Blend® Mod

OneAmerica Asset Director

AmCent Equity Income

T Rowe Price Equity-Income

Old Mutual Focused Fund

Pioneer Fund VCT

SSgA S&P® 500 Index

AmCent Ultra

Amer Fds Grwth Fund Of America

Goldman Sachs Mid Value

Columbia Mid Cap Index

Invesco Mid Cap Core Equity

Invesco Dynamics Fund

Allianz NFJ Small Cap Value

Pioneer Growth Opp VCT

Thornburg International Value

Amer Fds Capital World Gro&Inc

Invesco Energy Fund


Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:20 | 1464743 The Grip
The Grip's picture


Depends on how long you plan to live and how many mouths you have to feed. One option is to plead a hardship, take the tax hit, buy physical pm.

I rassled with the same dilemma for over a year and finally forced my fund manager's hand with the assistance of a lawyer friend. But I'm of an age where it was all but certain the $ would be gone or diluted to nothing by the time I could lay penalty-fee claim to it.

Amazes me to what lengths these bastards will go to in order to keep your digital fiat within their clutches.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:49 | 1464823 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Sorry for the double post.

I already took a loan out so I could pay myself interest, but it's only 5.5% and the loan with be paid off in May 2012.  At that time I may do it again.  I'm 52, and plan to live a while, thank you, and basically only have self, wife and couch potato son (has job, not enough hours/pay).  I've had a substantial portion in the Energy Fund, but that tanked quite a bit over the last month.  I've been trying to stay ahead of things, but I'm already down 3% this year.  Previously I was maintaining better than 12% each year.

Now I'm pretty lost.  The news and markets make no sense anymore and all I'm after is protection of my nut with modest return.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 19:13 | 1464884 Selah
Selah's picture

couch potato son (has job, not enough hours/pay)

Hopefully you are putting him to work in your home.

It should be well kept and have a nice vegetable garden. Even a balcony on an apartment can provide food. If not, he should have a reason for existence in your home. I've been to many countries where several generations live under the same roof, but everyone pulls his load.


There are no "couch potatoes" in the real world.


Sun, 07/17/2011 - 23:37 | 1465386 Peter_Griffin
Peter_Griffin's picture

Amazes me to what lengths these bastards will go to in order to keep your digital fiat within their clutches.



House got hit by a tornado 7-8 weeks ago.  Insurance company said a lot of people's checks got lost in the mail, took about 5 weeks until I received the "second" check.  Mailed it to the bank that day, and they deposited it within 48 hours.  Now they are taking me through the ringer and won't release any of the funds until the insurance company provides a document pertaining to the claim that my insurance company doesn't have and won't provide.  I'm sure it's orchestrated, holding money against people's will keeping it vested for a period of time just as they are doing with the 401k's.  With all the "natural" disasters we have had recently, and the population's rising insecurity of wallstreet's and America's future,  I'm sure its a very profitable scheme.  These guys are truly fucking ruthless.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 19:20 | 1464900 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Investigate rolling some, or all, out of the 401-K and into a self-directed IRA. You can then do anything with it including buying property and PMs.

It's a cottage industry now and not that hard. I'm not certain about how it works with 401-Ks. I rolled my SEP out of Fidelity into a self directed and haven't looked back.

Google: self-directed IRAs. Then,  call a few outfits to pick their brains to see if it's for you. Should be a rollover if allowed so there's no penalty or taxes. Just follow the simple rules. 

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 20:18 | 1465003 konputa
konputa's picture

@OldPhart , in the short term you won't make money if everything goes to hell in a hand basket. 401k funds aren't permitted to short equities so you can't profit on a massive dive per se. Ain't that a bitch?

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 17:57 | 1464674 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

UK Spiralling...


Ex-Murdoch aide Brooks arrested; Police chief out"

Currencies are all "On Risk" Now.

GOLD and commods are the only escape Imo.


Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:04 | 1464695 Cassandra Syndrome
Cassandra Syndrome's picture

Gold August Futures opens at just under $1,595

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:05 | 1464697 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Unemployment (March 2011): 3.4%

Labor: One-fourth of the country's full-time workers are unionized. In general, labor/management relations are good, mostly characterized by a willingness on both sides to settle disputes by negotiations rather than by labor action.


The country has a well-developed infrastructure for scientific research. Companies spend generously on R&D. Business activity benefits from a well-developed institutional framework, characterized by the rule of law, an efficient judicial system, and high levels of transparency and accountability within public institutions.


Due to the successful government debt reduction (imposed by the so-called debt brake), Switzerland is not expected to be impacted by strict austerity measures imposed in other areas of Europe.

Swiss nationality law:

  • citizenship by birth to Swiss parents or mother (no anchor babies)
  • citizenship by marriage to a Swiss citizen after 5 year residency requirement and 3 year marriage requirement (no greencard marriages)
  • citizenship by naturalization with proof they can speak one of 4 languages, integration into the Swiss way of life, familiarity with Swiss habits, customs and traditions (waving mexican flag speaking only spanish doesn't get you citizen's rights)

Education: Attendance--100%. Literacy--100%. (ebonics doesn't count)

Health: Life expectancy--men 79.4 yrs., women 84.2 yrs. (5 yrs higher than US)

Heathcare: basic universal coverage with half of US expenditure per capita. insurance premium is up to 8% of their personal income. additional private insurance available.

Per capita income (2010 est.): $66,367.
Avg. inflation rate: 0.7% (2010); 1.1% (2011 est.).


Military: Switzerland has a militia army (no military industrial complex wasting half of your tax). It would be difficult to invade the Alps anyways.

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:09 | 1464706 savagegoose
savagegoose's picture

screw euro, CNY just gained 8.8% v usd

if u had leveraged trade you just made an assfuckingly gross amount of money

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:11 | 1464714 tallen
tallen's picture

Gold @1598, about to break $1600 an ounce

Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:13 | 1464722 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Beat me to it!


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