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Everything You Need to Know About Torture
Here is a succinct executive summary of everything you know about torture:
Yes, Waterboarding IS Torture
- President Obama, Attorney General Eric Holder, Malcolm Nance (an advisor on terrorism to the US departments of Homeland Security, Special Operations and Intelligence), Lt. Gen. Michael D. Maples
(the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency) and many other
interrogation experts and high-level politicians say that waterboarding
is torture
- The United States has always considered waterboarding to be a crime of torture, including when the Japanese did it in WWII (and see this)
- Everyone claiming waterboarding is not torture has changed their tune as soon as they were exposed to even a small dose of it themselves. See this, this and this
It Wasn't Only Waterboarding
- Major General Antonio Taguba: Photos Show Sodomy, Rape and Sexual Assault With Wire and Various Blunt Instruments
- "The
Sexual Humiliation Of Iraqi Prisoners…Was Not An Invention Of Maverick
Guards, But Part Of A SYSTEM Of Ill-Treatment And Degradation"
Children, Too
No, Torture Does NOT Make Us Safer
- One of the Military's Top Interrogators Says Torture Cost Hundreds 'If Not Thousands' Of American Lives
The Insanity of What Actually Happened
- One
of the Main Sources for the 9/11 Commission Report was Tortured
Until He Agreed to Sign a Confession that He Was NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO
READ
- 9/11
Mastermind: "During ... My Interrogation I Gave A Lot Of False
Information In Order To Satisfy What I Believed The Interrogators
Wished To Hear"
- The Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission (John Farmer) - who led the 9/11 staff's inquiry - recently said: "The CIA tapes of the interrogations were destroyed. The story of 9/11 itself, to put it mildly, was distorted and was completely different from the way things happened"
Other Relevant Facts
- Former Navy Judge Advocate General Admiral John Hutson said that "Torture is the technique of choice of the lazy, stupid and pseudo-tough"
Should We Prosecute?
»
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I tell you now that when the lights go out bitch all of you fuck wads with "W" stickers still on your cars will have the life expectancy of a fart when I see you.
Quote me.. I am not George, I hate you baptist fucks.. I cant fucking wait.. I jerk off just thinking about kicking you idiots off my planet.
now, tell me how left I am... you dumb fucks seem to forget... the polite letfy wussies get to talk most of the time becuase people like me detract from the message "do unto others".. but aside from that, you.. your kids, your whole fucking gene pool! off my planet! buh bye bitch.. clock is a tickin!
Who would 'a thought? Gonzales said it was ok.
Did you know they executed people for saying the earth was round? and they have recently advocated executing anyone who denies man made global warming exists?
The ticking time bomb is way to cliche, I should have used something original like one's mother being raped live on the internet and gotten away from the atypical war criminal. Afterall the interrogation experts and their regard for torture is borne from an extremely narrow application.
BTW something seems to be working somewhere and I highly doubt it is soley security but I haven't seen a wide scale domestic terrorist attack in going on 10yrs, it is either some kind of massive coincidence, the war in Iraq and choosing venue is working despite protests to the contrary,
or the radical islamic terrorists suddenly love the US.
or can join the moronistas and insist the US was behind the 9/11 attacks and merely forgot to plant the WMDS in Iraq as a sequel. Afterall if they are going to blow up their own citizens surely they would have planted the WMDS too.
Nothing to do with increased security at airports, then?
According to the experts - torture is unnecessary even to prevent "ticking time bombs" from exploding (see this, this and this). Indeed, a top expert says that torture would fail in a real 'ticking time-bomb' situation
Sorry but can anyone prove that torture has failed in such a situation? If not to say it would fail is pure speculation.
GW, my balls itch. Would you mind if I scratch them with a razor blade?
This is just getting crazier and crazier. Now, we have a link to "Malcolm Nance, formerly chief of training at the Navy’s Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape (SERE)" telling us the ticking time bomb scenario will not work, yet we have told our military for decades that under torture amost all men will break. Georgie boy, do you not see even a hint of a contradiction here? Is Nance telling his guys they will face a military tribunal if they break and tell the truth? I doubt it and so do you if you actually think about it.
It is now emerging that you have an amazing inability to actually question your own sources. That is a sign of a "true believer". Adjunct professor, indeed.
Ricky-boy, it's about the quality of what is acquired.
People were tortured prior to the war until they learned, under torture, to give the "correct" answers that Cheney, et.al. wanted. So we wind up with "intel" like Saddam and Ossama were buds. Saddam has yellow-cake uranium, etc.
Obviously, these lies did not add to our security, so why do you like torture so much?
George, I think I can safely thank you on behalf of all secular humanists everywhere for enduring the abuse of all the loopy regressionists who feel it is their duty, empowered by the hollow spirit of Bill O'Really or some like insipid demagogue, to denigrate your valuable posts and the entirely verifiable information they contain. It is as plain as the pimples on their puerile faces that they don't like to reflect on facts and would rather wallow in a self destructive miasma of delusion and denial. I am sure that you, like me, would gladly simply allow their miserable fantasy to continue, excepting such crapulence has real world implications that have negative effects for everyone else.
But thanks again for trying to broaden the minds of the hopelessly obtuse, futile though the effort may seem, you never know; maybe they are not all as thick and cowardly as their blather indicates... though I will understand if you're not holding your breath.
Regards
But thanks again for trying to broaden the minds of the hopelessly obtuse ...
Let's follow your line of thinking out to it's logical conclusion.
What if people like GW succeeded in educating everyone into (his version of) the truth about torture?
What then?
Would torture stop?
Would there be any meaningful change?
No, of course not. Nothing would change.
Therein lies the emptiness and worthlessness of articles like this.
This guy writes for the choir. I liked the "show your work" comment. They don't have to "show their work" when they have an audience below that of Kos and the DU. I liked the one link that referenced "Raw story". Yeah, there is a site for all of us. Sure.
I invite you "GoinFawr" to actually follow some of those links and look for some actual substantiation of their accusations. You will find it wanting. I find it amusing that an adjunct professor wants to keep his writing anonymous from the academic community. He has no confidence in his posts and this one shows why.
As far as anonymity goes, I have more faith in writings by Ritholtz, Mish, Denninger, and people who are actually willing to cop to what they post than I do in ZH.
I have more faith in writings by Ritholtz, Mish, Denninger?? -
LOL, one freedom you still have in America is to lose your wealth as you choose. Good luck with that.
And as you dislike annonymity Ricky-boy, what's you real name and address? Thanks.
Okay ... tough guy ... I read through a couple of the links ...
Provide the verifiable evidence (supposedly video) of sodomy by U.S. troops on Iraqi children ...
See the problem with making bullshit assertions like Seymour Hersh did in multiple left-wing media outlets is that he's in an echo chamber where no one ever calls him to "show his work" ...
But here at Zerohedge, you have to "show your work" ... so put the verifiable evidence of Iraqi sodomy by U.S. troops ...
You (and Seymour) claim it is on video ... so post it to Youtube or Vimeo and prove to me that a U.S. soldier has sodomized a child then I'll shut up with my neanderthal, knuckle-dragging requirements for "facts" ...
When the footage and images classified by Rumsfeld after the initial Abu Ghraib leaks, are themselves leaked, fucktards like you will be nowhere to be found.
You see, the sodomy videos (and in fact MOST of the really graphic stuff) was classified IMMEDIATELY, on the (correct) assumption that it would inflame the entire world.
So demanding that someone from ZH posts links to classified material? Hoo boy! Are you INCITING a Manning-esque security breach?
Don't worry - they will be leaked eventually; the DoD is 'unwillingly Open Source'.
By then you will have generated another fake identity and will be fulfilling the role of redcoat-worshipper on some other site... because in case you haven't figured it out yet, you're the sort of craven whip-kisser who would have been a Tory in Revolutionary America... a Party supporter in 1989 in the Soviet Union... a Good German in 1944.
In other words, you're a serf, and a willing one at that.
(Note - I have no problems with psuedonymity - I use it all the time when doing things a bit more interesting than commenting on websites... , but let's just say that you ought to be aware that if Anonymous wants to find out who you are, they will, tout de suite; if Anonymous decides it wants to know, your only hope is if you're using Tor).
Cheerio
GT
Respected political scientist Michael Haas has confirmed that children were tortured, and Raw Story has explained that the newly-release Bush torture memos may corroborate claims that at least some detainees' children were tortured using insects.
More crap: "...may corroborate claims that at least some detainees' children were tortured using insects." Gee, I just love the "may corroborate" and the "at least some". Boy, that is sure persuasive. But, it is symptomatic of all of your references.
So a 404 (that's where your link lands ...) and a leftist professor who makes unsubstantiated claims about all kinds of shit ...that's showing your work?
That's intellectual laziness ... or just another GW contribution to ZH.
I tell you now that when the lights go out bitch all of you fuck wads with "W" stickers still on your cars will have the life expectancy of a fart when I see you.
Quote me.. I am not George, I hate you baptist fucks.. I cant fucking wait.. I jerk off just thinking about kicking you idiots off my planet.
now, tell me how left I am... you dumb fucks seem to forget... the polite letfy wussies get to talk most of the time becuase people like me detract from the message "do unto others".. but aside from that, you.. your kids, your whole fucking gene pool! off my planet! buh bye bitch.. clock is a tickin!
Fret not, their delusional heads will be handed to them in due time by forces much larger than you or anyone else ...but I suppose it might be personally gratifying to contribute in whatever small way you envision.
Here you go...
Nice broken link GW. Stick to Oil Spills.
I tell you now that when the lights go out bitch all of you fuck wads with "W" stickers still on your cars will have the life expectancy of a fart when I see you.
Quote me.. I am not George, I hate you baptist fucks.. I cant fucking wait.. I jerk off just thinking about kicking you idiots off my planet.
now, tell me how left I am... you dumb fucks seem to forget... the polite letfy wussies get to talk most of the time becuase people like me detract from the message "do unto others".. but aside from that, you.. your kids, your whole fucking gene pool! off my planet! buh bye bitch.. clock is a tickin!
Yes. Hearsay is substantiation ...
I could claim that you raped my sister even though you've never met, post it all over the internet, and get 5 "witnesses" to corroborate my "claim" ... it wouldn't make it any more true ...
Again, you need a lesson in objective reasoning, foundational logic, and reading comprehension ... as well, you need a class on how to tell the truth.
I've seen a bunch of robots (cybertronians) transform into vehicles commonly found here on Earth! When all media can be doctored by Computers, the only way to ascertain truth left is via eyewitness(es), which has problems too numerous to mention! WHAT IS TRUTH? You complain about not seeing it, yet provide no definition(s). Thanks for contributing more fog...
THe ultimate in masochistic torture is reading the posts on this site.
But I get it, the self loathing wannabee intellectual saints wouldn't torture anyone even if they knew with 100% certainty a nuclear bomb was set to go off somewhere in their neighborhood in 24hrs.
I'm pretty sure that the President can take the time to personally pardon every person who tortures someone and then difuses a nuclear bomb in an American city, and is then arrested and charged. It's the other every single time torture has ever been used in human history that we intellectuals are concerned about.
+1000
Please not concerned about actual people being tortured in the slightest. Afterall Saddam was killing Kurds by the masses, guy lived in oppulent palaces while the people lived in poverty and yet same folks here opposed to torture were opposed to taking him out, something about empire building, Bush/Cheney lining their own pockets, economic sanctions were working despite the immensly corrupt food for oil program blah, blah, blah,
but he was torturing real people?
Concerned about ramming that agenda down everyone's throat fact and fiction.
There is no doubt when the world loves the USA things are very wrong. So keep on keepin' on.
... guy lived in oppulent palaces while the people lived in poverty ...
Hmmmm..... sorta sounds like some of our government / Fed / banking leaders.
Yes it does.
? non sequitur.
As far as torture in Iraq goes..Abu Gharib.
Saddam was evil.Are you arguing we should be evil too?We should embrace all those values inimical to America's values?So we can do what....win?Don't you understand what a defeat it is to do that?How we become indistinguishable in action from the "enemy"?
Of course it is a non sequitor.
Have to rationalize the absurdity of the contradiction somehow.
If you spin anymore you may get motion sick.
I posted in english and afterall you people are the wannabee intellectuals remember.
If left up to you, there is no US invasion in Iraq and the guy is still torturing people.
There is no correlation to GITMO.
Don't care about people being tortured, care about furthering the hate US agenda.
IF it wasn't so transparently obvious an idiotic imbecile like me would never see it.
"...hate US agenda."
Best advice I ever listened to was...
"Love it or leave it!"
I left.
Whenever anyone dares to point out the painfully obvious fact that the U.S. and its leaders have for two hundred years consistently acted in a fashion diametrically opposed to the values which America claims to represent, that person is instantly accused of being anti-American.Am I anti-American? I don't think so. But, if believing in free speech and real democracy is anti-American, then I guess I am. If believing that a government should not lie endlessly is anti-American, then I guess I am. If believing that a government should not spy on its own citizens is anti-American, then I guess I am. If believing that a government should not kidnap, torture and murder is anti-American, then I guess I am. If believing that a government shouldn't slaughter millions of innocent people simply to further enrich the same old handful of psychopathic bastards and their offspring is anti-American, then... I guess I am.
The absurd contradiction is an American who supports torture.
Troll away all you like, but know with certitude you are on the wrong side of history.Enjoy the company of other shining heroes like Pol Pot,Mao,Hitler,Kim Jong-il, etc.
You are a credit to America, just as those other heroes were a credit to their countries.
3 weeks.
????????
.gov .contractor .troll
Sure spinbot afterall up to you Saddam is still in power and the Nazis rule most of Europe and North Africa.
But you care about people. A true blue humanist while oppressive sharia law takes over half the globe.
It is not everything we need to know about torture,
it is everything every left wing fringe whackjob has ever posted accusing the USA of torture-fact and fiction. The main purpose being hate mongering towards the US but thanks for playing spinbot.
If you read the links, you would see that the TOP INTERROGATION experts say that the "ticking time bomb" scenario is false, and that torture does NOT work.
I was waiting for the ticking time bomb to get trotted out.
Did you know torture is a war crime?And people after WW2 were executed for it?
No, if Jack Bauer does it, it must be ok!
The 'ticking time bomb' scenario enables rapid identification of fuckwits who 'know' everything they 'know' from TV and movies. In that sense it plays a useful role in that it shows you're dealing with someone who has no operational idea what the fuck they're talking about.
Orwell put it best: the purpose of torture is torture.
The 'my country right or wrong' fucktards would be screaming blue murder if the Iranians had waterboarded the UK and US soldiers caught in Iranian waters a few years back. (Maybe they were in Iranian waters, maybe they weren't... but they sure as fuck weren't in US or UK waters, and as Mavi Marmara shows us, the US de facto position is that anything goes on the high seas)
Remember when the Yank media went Full Retard when the Iraqis sank to the level where they put (oh, I can hardly write it, my hands are shaking with terror) captured US personnel ... (I'm crying now... oh, the humanity).. ON TV?
That new software that DHS, State and DOD have to create sock-puppets for 'social network' sites (the US 'megaphone') really needs to be refined to the point where it can pass a Turing test... because they unpaid shills really are worse than useless.
Cheerio
GT
+100
Excellent point, any rationalization to the contrary is fuck twit material no matter how ludicrous the underlying point happens to be. Go with the other guy's answer next time-exclude the ticking time bomb instead of pretending otherwise.
Who cares if torture actually ever worked, keep posting it never has and there is no such thing as a ticking time bomb or some other rationalization and maybe torture will disappear from the planet.
Nothing like a pompous arrogant naive Eurotrash to explain the fukk tard rules all the while trying to stamp out evil by ignoring it.
Cheers and regards mate.
"...keep posting it never has and there is no such thing as a ticking time bomb or some other rationalization and maybe torture will disappear from the planet."
Lol, aren't you just using the opposite argument there?
So what is the point of torture, if not torture itself? Is it to elicit a confession? The following is from the wikipedia page on the Spanish inquisition:
SO...there's that...
Is it just that you want to live in a world where we have all of the tools available to us to get the job done, torture included?
I don't know man.... seems sick to me.
Excellent top notch post!
Given a choice between the rack, bamboo caning esp. on soles of feet, being hung by elbows behind back, having bamboo splinters shoved up your fingernails, being forced to watch episodes of the Rosie O'Donnell Show & etc... and being waterboarded which would you choose?
I'd choose waterboarding, tell the bastards ANYTHING they want to know, and move on. sheesh
And if you don't know anything just make something up.
What a bunch of uber left-wing crap................anyone can find anything on the net to back up their point of view no matter how demented.
This GW BS serves no purpose at all and I'm surprised Tyler allows it.............must be a slow news day today.
I know, it's like sooooooo 2008. Can't we just move on and let bygones be bygones? ( I mean as long as they are Lily white, natch) Responsibility is only for the brown and the poor.
/sarc
Face it, ZH is a very informative economic site - not so much in the political realm though. Depressingly left-oriented.