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The Fatal Flaw In Europe's Second "Bazooka" Bailout: 82 Million Soon To Be Very Angry Germans, Or How Euro Bailout #2 Could Cost Up To 56% Of German GDP

Tyler Durden's picture


A funny thing happened in Euro spreads today. While the bonds of all PIIGS countries surged higher in price (and plunged in yield) upon the announcement of the second Big Bang bailout, the reaction in core Eurozone credit was hardly as exuberant, and in fact spreads of the two core European countries pushed wider by the end of the day, and over the last week. Why? After all the elimination of peripheral risk should have been seen as favorable for everyone involved, most certainly for those who had been seen as supporting the ever more rickety house of European cards. Well, no. Basically what happened today was a two part deal: the i) funding of future debt for countries that are currently locked out of the market (all the PIIGS and possibly core countries soon) or in other words the "liquidity mechanism" which is being satisfied by the EFSF "TARP-like" expansion, and ii) the roll-over mechanism for existing holders of debt which "allows" them to "voluntarily" transfer existing obligations into a "fresh start" Greece which can then emerge promptly from the Selective Default state that is coming from Moody's and S&P any second, and supposedly allow the country to access markets as a non-bankrupt country.

For all intents and purposes the second can be ignored, because as has been made clear over the past few days, and as will be demonstrated below, the actual rollover from non-Peripheral banks will be de minimis, the bulk of impaired debt being held by banks in the host countries as is, and used as collateral with the ECB in the form of par instruments for cash.

Now the second part of the mechanism was never an issue further demonstrated by the plunge in net notional in Greek CDS as core banks no longer needed to hedge exposure and instead opted to divest their holdings. This is merely a red herring that attempts to confuse the issues associated with the first, and far more important concept: the nuances of the EFSF and its imminent expansion. And expand it will have to, because in reality what is happening is that the net debt of the countries will end up growing even more over time for one simple reason: this is not a restructuring of existing debt from the perspective of the host country! Simply said Greek debt will continue growing as a percentage of its GDP, meaning it, and Ireland, and Portugal, and soon thereafter Italy and Spain will be forced to borrow exclusively from the EFSF. Therein lies the rub. In a just released report by Bernstein, which has actually done the math on the required contributions to the EFSF by the core countries, the bottom line is that for an enlarged EFSF (which is what its blank check expansion today provided) to be effective, it will need to cover Italy and Belgium. As AB says, "its firepower would have to rise to €1.45trn backed by a total of €1.7trn guarantees." And here is where the whole premise breaks down, if not from a financial standpoint, then certainly from a political one: "As the guarantees of the periphery including Italy are worthless, the Guarantee Germany would have to provide rises to €790bn or 32% of GDP." That's right: by not monetizing European debt on its books, the ECB has effectively left Germany holding the bag to the entire European bailout via the blank check SPV. The cost if things go wrong: a third of the country economic output, and the worst case scenario: a depression the likes of which Germany has not seen since the 1920-30s. Oh, and if France gets downgraded, Germany's pro rata share of funding the EFSF jumps to a mindboggling €1.385 trillion, or 56% of German GDP!

The Europarliament, ECB and IMF may have won their Pyrrhic victory today... But what happens tomorrow when every German (in a population of 82 very efficient million) wakes up to newspaper headlines screaming that their country is now on the hook to 32% of its GDP in order to keep insolvent Greece, with its 50-some year old retirement age, not to mention Ireland, Portugal, and soon Italy and Spain, as part of the Eurozone? What happens when these same 82 million realize that they are on the hook to sacrificing hundreds of years of welfare state entitlements (recall that Otto von Bismark was the original welfare state progentior) just so a few peripheral national can continue to lie about their deficits (the 6 month Greek deficit already is missing Its full year benchmark target by about 20%) and enjoy generous socialist benefits up to an including guaranteed pensions? What happens when an already mortally wounded in the polls Angela Merkel finds herself in the next general election and experiences an epic electoral loss? We will find out very, very shortly.

Here is Bernstein with the full breakdown:

Continuation of the current strategy with a materially enlarged EFSF and private sector participation in liquidity support

Despite the failure of the current strategy, there is still a theoretical option of an extension of the current liquidity support with a materially enlarged EFSF that would also be buying government bonds in the secondary market. We believe this is the least likely option given the size of the fund required to achieve the objective.

An extension of the EFSF to cover Italy and Spain would require a €790bn (32% of GDP) guarantee from Germany

This strategy is not only unlikely to succeed but would also run into some serious structural difficulties. To cover 100% of the roll-over for Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain, Italy and Belgium as well as an allowance for bank support at 7% of the banks' balance sheets until the end of 2013, the support mechanism(s), would need to be able to deploy a total of €2.4trn in available funds.

Assuming the Greek Loan facility and the EFSM remain in place, the EFSF would have to increase its deployable funds from currently about ~€270bn to €1,450bn.

Given the 20% overcollateralization requirement on the current EFSF structure and the fact that countries that receive EFSF support are not able to provide valid guarantees mean that in order to create a €1.45trn funding capacity, the total fund would have to be €1.7trn. The guarantees to be provided by Germany would have to be €791bn or 32% of GDP.

There is a legitimate question whether in particular Germany would see the point of committing that kind of support to a concept that has so far been extremely unsuccessful. It also would expose Germany to a worst case scenario of a French downgrade. Without France, the guarantee need would rapidly move towards the whole of the €1.7trn. As the market is getting increasingly concerned about France, the odds are heavily stacked against an extension of the EFSF as a pure liquidity support mechanism.

If Banks were to participate in a liquidity expansion their contribution would be minimal

Within the current strategy one of the open questions is whether or not the private sector can participate by providing liquidity to the periphery countries. We believe this to be a fundamentally marginal discussion despite its enormous political importance.

Based on the stress test data released on Friday, we find that whilst the banks account for the majority of the very short term paper, their total share of the funding requirement into 2013 is just 23% and 16% of the total EFSF.

The question is how big the private sector participation could be. Taking the "French proposal" as a guide, the private sector participation would reduce the size of the EFSF by €137bn or 9% of the €1.45bn EFSF funding, assuming 70% of the debt is rolled over, 30% collateralization and 75% of banks participate.

The problem with this private sector participation so far has been the risk that this may be regarded as a default by the rating agencies. As a consequence the banks would have to write down these exposures to market prices. This exercise would lead to reported write-downs for the European banking sector of €75bn, 0.55 times more than the liquidity support that the EU is seeking. And in particular in Portugal and Greece the fallout of the MTM losses far outstrips the increase in liquidity.

Even more importantly, more than half of these losses would occur in the banks of the periphery countries themselves. In the absence of an open market for these banks, the losses would have to be made up by the governments themselves and subsequently added back to the EFSF utilization.


And there you have it: the cost of the euro not plunging today as a result of the ECB not proceeding with outright monetization, is that Germany is now the ultimate backstopper of all of Europe's risk. And while before, when the EFSF was just over €400 billion or so, the market could largely ignore the risk, a €1.5 trillion "upgrade" certainly changes the equilibria dynamics. In an attempt to avoid the appearance of inviting inflationary pressures on Trichet's central bank, Germany has directly onboarded the risk associated with terminal failure of this latest and riskiest "bailout" plan and in doing so may have jeopardized anywhere between 32% and 56% of its entire annual economic output. One wonders if the risk of runaway inflation is worth offsetting the risk of a plunge into the worst depression in the nation's history? It sure isn't for the Fed.

The most ironic outcome would be if the eurozone, in an attempt to prevent further contagion at the periphery, simply invited the vigilantes to bypass Italy (recall how everyone was shocked that instead of attacking Spain, it was Italian spreads that got destroyed in a manner of days), and head straight for the country on whose shoulders lies the fate of the entire EUR experiment?

Is Atlas about to shrug and topple the entire oh so heavy house of cards?




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Thu, 07/21/2011 - 19:06 | 1478988 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

History shows that angry Germans are no threat to anyone.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 19:08 | 1478994 Robslob
Robslob's picture

6+ million souls may disagree

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 19:11 | 1478999 Gold Man-Sacks
Gold Man-Sacks's picture

It's called satire, you literary genius, you.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 19:19 | 1479018 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Maybe it's Germany's way to pay compensation to Greece for WWII.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 19:22 | 1479036 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Or maybe for WWIII.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 19:25 | 1479041 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

The rotmof are easily appeased. Let them "win" another sucker world cup.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 19:31 | 1479060 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Lol.  Kicking balls vs. Kicking ass.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:59 | 1479329 Juice Box
Juice Box's picture

Danke Schön Bitches!

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:26 | 1479410 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Sarkozy & Bernlusconi & Merkel had a summit today, and they talked, and their words were delicious and soothing, filling the air with hope & cheer, and they said there will be no defaults of any Euro Member, the EUR will be supported, and they will magically make all the debt crises and vexing math problems go away immediately.

So, it's fixed.

They fixed it. They fixed all the problems.

Growth can resume now, and debt is no longer an issue, nor is the tension between those in stronger EU Member States and weaker ones, nor is the strength/weakness of the EUR given that trillions of fresh EUR will be printed and distributed if these dear leaders are to be taken at their word.

They're very competent.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:54 | 1479445 I Am The Unknow...
I Am The Unknown Comic's picture

"turkey" is one of the Germanic languages.  Gobble, goggle, peas, gobble gobble. 

Problem solved

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 00:12 | 1479644 G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

""turkey" is one of the Germanic languages. Gobble,goggle,peas, gobble gobble."

If indeed the ECB turkeys leaves Germany holding the bag then talking "turkey" may very well end up a language of the past.



Fri, 07/22/2011 - 02:01 | 1479716 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

They gotta get The Won in there too.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 02:40 | 1479743 Michael
Michael's picture

The fatal flaw is, no one is ever again going to buy Credit Default Swaps because they know they will never pay off because of government and central banking cartel shit.

That also makes the holders of those CDO's very angry since their CDO holdings are now worthless. 

I hope they didn't get some billionaire CDO holders angry by doing this. They may put a hit squad out on the people who did this like they did to Scarface.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 02:55 | 1479756 Michael
Michael's picture

I'm not taking the Blame for the Climate Changing or the Weather. The blame is all on them.

I'm only to blame and take responsibility for all the crap I pulled in my 50 years of life. Not the climate changing or the weather. Got IT!

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 03:26 | 1479779 Bang Dae Ho
Bang Dae Ho's picture one is ever again going to buy Credit Default Swaps because they know they will never pay of...

Michael, I thought CDS are one more trading instrument, well- OTC trading, but still trading... Long CDS positions are profitable when the sovereign debt crisis soap heats up, and short CDS positions are profitable when it cools down, as recently. When TPTB are positioned long, they give governments and media the order: Drama, drama, please! Then, when they got enough, they take short CDS positions and order: Conference and agreement, please!

I thought nobody is ever seriously considering the 'Credit Default' event, such a hypotetical event is just a pretext to justify this kind of ponzi derivative.

Am I so wrong?

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 04:02 | 1479801 Michael
Michael's picture

A hypotetical event that will never materialize, over their dead bodies.

That kind of hypotetical event?


Fri, 07/22/2011 - 04:04 | 1479806 Bang Dae Ho
Bang Dae Ho's picture

over their dead bodies.

I also have bold dreams, but I am afraid they are not as bold as yours.


Fri, 07/22/2011 - 04:22 | 1479815 Michael
Michael's picture
US panel votes to bar climate funding

"A panel of the US Congress on Thursday moved to bar foreign assistance related to climate change, defying President Barack Obama's calls to contribute as part of an international accord."

"On a party line vote, the Republican-led House Foreign Affairs Committee voted to ban in next year's budget for Obama's initiative to support poor nations in adapting to climate change or pursuing clean energy.

But the measure's future is uncertain as other committees also have jurisdiction over climate funding including in the Senate, where Obama's Democratic Party is in control."

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 05:05 | 1479830 Michael
Michael's picture

This site got 791 comments on its most recent thread;


"To address the main issue that people have been getting all bent out of shape about: the stores I photographed do not appear to be authorized Apple sellers."

Are you listening, Steve Jobs?

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 06:55 | 1479860 boooyaaaah
boooyaaaah's picture

If Germany won WW2, Greece being the soft underbelly of Europe, We all would be in the same position today

Unless Germany reassigned the Greeks to Siberia

Which they still may do

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 12:35 | 1481219 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Send greeks to siberia. Create palestinian state in greece. That would solve a lot of problems.

Kurdish homeland in germany with berlin as it's capital would also be a good start.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 19:33 | 1479067 InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture


WW3 started in 1971 and is close to being won by the US. That is of course, if the fuck-nuts raise the debt ceiling and don't accidentally forfeit.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 19:37 | 1479081 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Congressional approval not necessary as there were no boots on the ground.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:36 | 1479424 centerline
centerline's picture

Along with going "full fiat," Nixon visited China somewhere around that time with what appeared at the time to be full 180 degree in stance towards the communist country.

Not trying to imply anything.  Just putting two "dots" on the board for the fun it.  If we are going to talk about WWIII already having been waged (on-going) via pen and digital 1's and 0's, I don't think the cold war mentality is off the table.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:38 | 1479270 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

You are right that it is World War IV but I think for the wrong reasons.  One of the insiders that I always enjoyed listening to was former CIA Director James Woolsey.  He is not a douche like that Leon Panetta that just got thrust into the position.  He has always stated that the Cold War was World War III.  I agree with him on that.  Just add up the American casualties and costs in treasure that went into that debacle. 

The sad part is if you believe the Cold War was World War III you still have to think the next one will be worse.  This is going to result from such huge economic imbalances that it boggles the mind what the casualty figures can be in this one.  The "emerging market" countries should be the ones fearing what is coming the most.  They are always the biggest losers in proxy wars and major conflicts.  This time will be no different. 

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:04 | 1479305 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

This time around, the "submerging markets" (US-JAPAN-EURO) will suffer great devastation.  Fukushima is only the warm up.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 04:08 | 1479808 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Indeed Ahmee. Though this time the entire northern hemi-sphere is at risk through Air and th eentire world through water, ne?

One has to look, not even deeply this time, to see the nuclear pattern showing it's hand.

And I don't buy this surface level, Germany is payign for Italy crap. Germany has had an iron grip on the Eurozone since long before it's inception.



Thu, 07/21/2011 - 23:40 | 1479613 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  He has always stated that the Cold War was World War III.

Wow,  we became a centrally-planned scam state like the USSR in order to beat the Godless commie, so now we have perpetually increasing Big-MIC, perpetual war, and (the new an improved) Big-PoliceState.    


Can't beat a "win" like that.  

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 19:25 | 1479021 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

@Gold.  +1 

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 19:19 | 1479019 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Not Funky-Chunky-Monkey-Boy!    Europeans never kill anybody....

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 19:24 | 1479042 Sofa King
Sofa King's picture

Actually, it's more like 62 to 78 million souls...not just the 6 million that we have chosen to commemorate with the special title of Holocaust victims.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 19:31 | 1479063 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Has anybody ever sat down & tallied the number of OSCARS statuettes that have been handed out over the years (in ANY category), to films which had the holocaust as either a central, or background theme?..

It sure gives 'We will never forget' an alternate meaning... Why? Easy... Because it's sure to be shoved down our throats by the doting media & Hollywood community at every opportunity...

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 19:40 | 1479093 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

All kidding aside, I stand with the Jewish people and thier right to defend themselves.  I will never forget.  I am a Scottish/Irish/Italian mutt, in the interest of full disclosure.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:01 | 1479154 john39
john39's picture

ok, well enough... but what does that mean.  does that mean that the israeli government gets to lock the palestinian people in large open air prisons? Kill civilians whenever they deem it appropriate? institute an illegal blockaide?  lets get real, it was wrong in south africa and it is wrong in Palestine.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:10 | 1479184 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

I see by your response to Amish, you are a holocaust denier.  I will say this to you, and all the rest out there.  If I want any more lip from you, I'll touch your vagina.  Bitch.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:42 | 1479279 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

Call me Fred G. Sanford because I am the junk man.  I junked your ass for your overreaction.  I didn't see any denials in there.  Perhaps I need a new prescription.  Feel free to junk but freedom of expression sometimes leads to things you don't want to read.  In that instance your a--hole was wound way too tight. 

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:45 | 1479293 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

You don't need a new perscription, you need better reading comprehension skills.  I clearly stated "in your response to Amish".  If you scroll down you will see said response.  I also addressed to to all holocaust deniers.  Junk away, my friend, to me it is a badge of honor.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:49 | 1479300 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

I deny my denial, cheddar illegitimate.  Proceed.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:58 | 1479323 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

No prob, 270degreesTownMoron.  God bless!

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 01:40 | 1479706 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

There's a JewBook somewhere which claims that the Scots are one of the Lost Tribes; they're surely obnoxious enough. If not, CheeseStink, you are a most excellent Shabbatz Goy.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 07:08 | 1479867 SirPlayomic
SirPlayomic's picture

Have you ever been to Scotland? Anyway, let's not go down this tribialistic road where we all fight each other and forget who the real enemy is. In case you forgot, the real enemy is the Banks and their politicial puppets.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 07:48 | 1479919 ArrestBobRubin
ArrestBobRubin's picture

And just who do you think owns those banks? Need to see a list of names?

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:48 | 1479284 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

Okay, I just saw the post of the holocaust denial.  I will now junk myself.  Israel, like any nation, should be questioned for its behavior.  I'm not in to the holocaust denial.  It was a holocaust in the midst of a larger holocaust. 

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 00:24 | 1479657 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

how do you get the taste of the condoms out of your mouth

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 02:07 | 1479718 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

That's the nonylphenol ethoxylates on there. Fortunately, while they are lipophilic, and thus active in your mouth, they are aslo hydrophilic too, and can be washed off easily under running water or with a very wet towel...if your sex tactics can be arranged to accomodate.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 00:38 | 1479661 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Well said     Milestones

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:01 | 1479155 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

How politically correct of you...

As well... I stand behind the right of INNOCENT victims to defend themselves...

As it so happens... I 'feel' that I am an INNOCENT VICTIM of:

- a banking cartel which robs me blindly in broad daylight every day (& laughs at me as they do)

- a complicit media conglomerate (largely run by sympathizers)

- greedy & corrupt politicians who are paid to facilitate


I'll expect MY OSCAR come next March...



Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:33 | 1479246 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Fluffers, while in the movie business, don't win oscars.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:05 | 1479172 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Schuld sein Freiheit

Debt is Freedom... I think.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:25 | 1479225 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Schuld macht frei.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 02:54 | 1479753 malek
malek's picture

Wrong are all of you.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 07:11 | 1479871 SirPlayomic
SirPlayomic's picture

Schulden machen frei

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 12:39 | 1481240 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Debt shall set you free.


So that's what all banks have on the welcome mat.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 04:53 | 1479825 Dugald
Dugald's picture

"All kidding aside, I stand with the Jewish people and thier right to defend themselves.  I will never forget.  I am a Scottish/Irish/Italian mutt, in the interest of full disclosure".

    Strewth Cobber...That makes you almost British!

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 08:33 | 1480019 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

Aye , ah noticed that.

Ah hate thae dumb cuntz thit gae on aboot hailin frum Scoatland.


Thu, 07/21/2011 - 22:16 | 1479479 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

This is only slightly off-topic and more than partly facaetious, but I think part of the fascination with the Nazis stems from the fact that their uniforms were (gay inflection) "fabulous". The all black with the little skull on the hat, and the cool iron cross medals. Hitler should have given up painting and gone into fashion design. He would have been a smashing success and WWII averted.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 23:08 | 1479539 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Hugo Boss designed all nazi uniforms.

And today, Hitler Youth camps are alive and kicking. Even getting government support:,1518,775764,00.html

Gay fucktard nazis:,1518,768641,00.html

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 01:00 | 1479675 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Wow a few hundred extremists. That's unheard of

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 10:44 | 1480608 TK7936
TK7936's picture

Homophobic A hole you are.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 03:58 | 1479800 Bang Dae Ho
Bang Dae Ho's picture

...their uniforms were (gay inflection) "fabulous"...

normally barbarism and order are contradictions... the Nazis blended both together. Their barbaric, cruel nature expressed itself by order and a some peak-of-civilization-appeal. Germans have always been obsessed by order and therefore even the most barbaric terror regime had maximum system and order.

The uniforms themselves are nothing particular. You have that impression because the uniforms are associated with what the Nazis were about. And this is sublime, and sublime = fascinating.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 12:24 | 1481149 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

No one ever fantasized being ravished by someone dressed as a liberal. So says pj O rourke.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 04:10 | 1479809 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

True Francis.

In addition, try standing at anyplace in Germany and shout loudly that the Hollow Cost never happened. Jail without a lawyer before you can say Schwien!

That is a huge tell. Huge!


Fri, 07/22/2011 - 07:18 | 1479877 L_Estasi_dell_Oro
L_Estasi_dell_Oro's picture

(p.s.: it's "holocaust" - )

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 12:15 | 1481105 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

p.p.s: it's called poetic licence.


And if something never happened, what is it doing with a definition? Eh?


Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:01 | 1479152 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

Six million is the approximate number of Jews who died in the camps. Frequently overlooked are some 6 million non-Jewish "undesirables" who also went up the chimneys. 

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:04 | 1479167 john39
john39's picture

another sucker who buys the holohaox...  no where near six million jews died in "deathcamps"...  but to make sure that no one figures that out, they make it illegal to question the holohoax in parts of europe, and, truth is not a legal defense... how very... orwellian.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:20 | 1479212 Bob
Bob's picture

and very German diction.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:36 | 1479264 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

OK, we get it. You wear a swastika on your burkha.


Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:06 | 1479356 MobBarley
MobBarley's picture

He's Tibetan?

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 04:57 | 1479828 Dugald
Dugald's picture

Makes for a great Sight picture though!!

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:39 | 1479429 JohnG
JohnG's picture

You are a fucking idiot. 

My late wife's grandfather ( was commissioned by the military to investigate Germany's light water facilities after the liberation of most of the concentration camps.

He took many, many pictures.  I have them. 

In one, at Auschwitz Birkenau (he got some sort of tour), you can clearly see the ovens still sitting RED HOT.

Dude even became a priest after Oak Ridge.  Read the wiki.



Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:50 | 1479441 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Additionally, my current wife's dad was one of the first US soldiers at the liberation of Bergen-Belsen.  The prisoners didn't have a clue what the fuck to do, where to go, anything...they had been tortured that much.

Fucking tool.

I'm not even Jewish and you piss me off.

I have personally seen tatoos on people that were in those camps.

Get a clue.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 00:00 | 1479638 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

I've seen the tattoos as well.. That's not proof of a policy to gas and burn Jewish people.

They were in work camps. Between 350-500k died of starvation, disease and murder by Nazis. The Red Cross was able to visit and document. Of course, they are also accuse of being an anti Semitic organization.

I guess if you don't swallow the holohoax religion hook line and sinker, you are some kind of hater. 100 million people died in the past century due to fucking wars and all we write or talk about is a quarter million Jews (turned 6 million).. What does that tell you? 

Sorry if my "hatred" causes me to morn the death of others besides Jewish people.. pfff

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 02:12 | 1479720 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Mmmkay, what's your read on the widely agreed estimate that around 100million people were terminated early by communist dictatorships, in peacetime, pretty much on purpose, across the 20th century?

Just trying to suss you out here a little, on where you stand on statist horrors.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 07:10 | 1479868 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

It's pretty hard to put numbers on all of this. Stalling killing 30 million, Tens of millions killed in Asia. I am anti war and anti killing. I view it ALL as a tragedy.

Regardless of how many Jews died in Europe it was TOO MANY !! I do morn the suffering of the European Jews but I do NOT use it to endorse the state of Israel! Period!

This is the problem I have with the 6 million. It's an eye catcher, a "religion" that gives Zionists undeserved sympathy whereby allowing them to commit crimes against Arabs.

Read/Watch Norman Finklestein on the holocaust industry. Of course Jews went to camps. It was horrible and should never be forgotten, but, it (Jews suffering) should not be amplified as to be "set above" the suffering of all others in this world. When I see that, it raises a red flag and makes me wonder who is actually in control of media/information/politics. 

I'm a simple man, I'm observant, and I believe my lying eyes..

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 12:43 | 1481257 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture


OK, that pretty much explains why you are a denier.

Infinite ignorance.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 06:48 | 1479859 WVO Biker
WVO Biker's picture

In Hamburg they killed more people in the Konzentrationslager than were killed by allied air raids. Come near my place and see the site: Neuengamme. BTW most were buried by undertakers. Unbelievable.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 23:33 | 1479599 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Did he get an accurate count on the dead Jews while he was there?

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 12:32 | 1481205 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Commissioned by whose military. If it was the allies why were the ovens hot after the camps wwere liberated. What were they baking gingerbread men. Or was he an official of the Nazi military.

U need to think your lies through.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 14:40 | 1481745 JohnG
JohnG's picture

US Government.

Ovens stayed hot for months.

Don't name me as a liar fool, that's just not my style, never has been.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:21 | 1479215 delacroix
delacroix's picture

research the world census, before, and after WWII .  6 million jews, were not murdered. too many, yes.  6 million, no.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 23:47 | 1479621 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

"world census"? Lol. Forgot the sarc flag. When the us census comes around, i toss it with the junk mail. When the temp census worker knoks on my door, i dont get up from the sofa. Imagine how accurate the census is when goose steppers walk up to your door asking how many people live there. Easily +\- 6 million uncertainty.

World census. Lol.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 23:20 | 1479583 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

5,500,000 was Eichmann's number which the Zionists rounded up to 6.  The Zionists said Eichmann was not to be believed since he was a lying Nazi and was just trying to get out of his just desserts.

Nobody really knows how many died.  

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 00:59 | 1479674 Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

Read Stalingrad

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 01:50 | 1479711 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

6 million exceeds # of Jews in Axis Europe by +1 million. Actual death camp railroad lading bills, plus populations of Jew ghettos drained into one or another death camp = 2.5 million. Another 1.1 million Jews killed off 1941-43 during pre-emptive and actual anti-partisan operations east of the June 22 1941 German-Russian demarcation line. So: 3.6 million. That's about it, less all the lieing by both Zionists and Deniers. By the way, this is about half the number of people done to death during the 1942-44 eastern India scorched earth Terror Famine in Assam/Bengal provinces (bordering on Burma) engineered by Zionist stooge Winston Churchill. Heard much about THAT "holocaust" lately? Thought not....the Victors write the history books.   

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:27 | 1479412 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

You're assuming the Germans were solely responsible for WWII. What about Japan, Italy, and the USSR? They were also aggressors

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 02:01 | 1479715 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Not to mention good old Brits, backstopped by USA: 1) backstabbed Germany at onset of German-Polish War; 2) attempted to seize Norway, Hitler pre-empted; 3) murdered Metaxas, seized and occupied Greece, long before Hitler intervened, and then 4) overthrew Gov't of Yugoslavia, set up cabal of Serb Generals, etc. Then there's the small matter of Churchill's 9:30 AM, 26 November 1941 radiotelephone conversation between FDR and WC discussing how to "handle" the upcoming Pearl Harbor attack, etc.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 08:53 | 1480066 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

This is good

'Not to mention good old Brits, backstopped by USA: 1) backstabbed Germany at onset of German-Polish War'

What are you saying?

The Brits and the Germans should have got together in ww2 and taken over the world?

You r right buddy and everyone knows it.

Imagine if Churchill and hitler had got going TOGETHER - europe would have been easy... middle east oil then enslave africa and put the lazy buggers to work with boot and fist.

America was doing nothing.

Yes, instead of being soccer hooligans and drunken easy women 'die englander' would be fucking bavarian helga's and prussian ironmen... breeding the true master race . heheh

it could all have come to pass but the dumb brits wouldn't do it.

and all the brits missed out because you just cant let the Germans win... that all.


Fri, 07/22/2011 - 07:28 | 1479893 L_Estasi_dell_Oro
L_Estasi_dell_Oro's picture

The USSR fought the Germans just as much as the Allies did.

In fact, about half of all lives lost in that entire war were lost by Russia.

Without Russia on the Eastern front, the Allies would not have won from the Germans.


It was a very, very close victory for the Allies + Russians. Germany was working hard on truly amazing technologies and without a few miscalculations on their side, they would have run over Russia and the Allies in W. Europe.


Just go dig into the German atomic bomb project, how they already had flown to the skyline of Manhattan for reconnaissance, how they were way ahead in the field of electronics by the end of the war, how they were enriching U235, how U235 + infrared-fuses  + Japanese men were discovered and captured on a German submarine.. and suddenly the U.S. has enough enriched U235 to drop a weapon on Japan..



Do not believe for a second the post-war myth spread by the Allies that the German were incompetent. (Those who win write the history books..)

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 19:42 | 1479098 caconhma
caconhma's picture

"6+ million souls may disagree"

What are you talking about? What 6+ million?

Shit, you sound like a brainwashed average asshole US citizen.

It is time for Germans to stop apologizing for crimes they never committed and to defend their Fatherland!

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:54 | 1479314 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

I think the Germans should just STFU and pony up the billions of Euros it will take to keep the Euro together.  THAT is their duty. 

Ha ha.  This is just sick.  A proud nation is being thrown to the wolves.  This fall I will spend real time in Germany for the first time.  Flying through Frankfurt doesn't count.  I look forward to seeing the country that my ancerstry came from.  I will be like Alex Hailey.  I can't wait until I get to Germany and say, "Heinz Grubenberger, I have found you".  I think I will make a mini-series out of it. 

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 01:10 | 1479685 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

very mini I suspect

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 02:16 | 1479722 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Just for the porn they produce, basically a triple X version of "Shprockets", they should pay...for a while. I'm shorting the euro 2X if it passes 1.475

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 08:57 | 1480074 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

'Shit eating dwarves 3' is a teutonic classic

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:55 | 1479316 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

The "Fatherland" of Germany is Russia.

The liberating Red Army knocked up german women all the way up to Berlin.



Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:57 | 1479321 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

"Ich habe eine 88 von zu, fraulein."

Please forgive my German. 

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:02 | 1479335 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture


And the Russians should knock on doors all the way to Berlin. It was way too cold for sex in Moscow that year.

Keep in mind that the South Germans are a little different from those in the North and particular the Austrians as well.

Oh, the Autobahn, if you see a set of lights flash at you from behind, get the fuck out of your lane pronto. especially if you are in the hammer lane trying for 130 or whatever the pathetic rental will do.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 23:41 | 1479614 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

It's a tricky manoeuvre to merge into the other lane that's bumper to bumper trucks and 2CVs doing about 60mph when you're doing 130.  (Delta is 70mph for the arithmetically challenged.)  Sometimes blood is spilled -- copious quantities of it.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 02:18 | 1479724 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Tcherman drivers guesstimate the horsepower and speed based on recognition of the headlights coming up behind. Or that's the way it was in bavaria 15 years ago.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 05:14 | 1479833 Dugald
Dugald's picture


  Ich hatte deine Mutter für ein Stück Seife

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:29 | 1479415 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

The Soviets held about 30% of Germany. Many of them weren't even Russians

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 22:06 | 1479465 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

you are named appropriately

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 22:30 | 1479485 foofoojin
foofoojin's picture

60+ million souls may disagree.

fixed that for you.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 22:42 | 1479528 Ben Fleeced
Ben Fleeced's picture



Fri, 07/22/2011 - 04:29 | 1479821 chalcedonite
chalcedonite's picture


Raul Hilberg calculated the number at 896,292.

Sat, 07/23/2011 - 16:36 | 1485469 Great Dane
Great Dane's picture

Oh please!  If you that bad at the delineation of basic math & time then perhaps you should reconsider, as it would be more your speed.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 19:09 | 1478996 Gold Man-Sacks
Gold Man-Sacks's picture


Thu, 07/21/2011 - 19:38 | 1479087 rocker
rocker's picture

No threat to anyone ?   It would sure be nice to know.........

Who, exactly are the large bond holders in all of this........?


Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:05 | 1479173 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Unfortunately Jean-Claude deferred that question to the bond holders....

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:03 | 1479342 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

"Who, exactly are the large bond holders in all of this........?"

WTF does that matter?  The actual bondholders are the "you and me" of Europe.  The regular people will pay for all of this with their blood, sweat, ,gold, toil and lives.  The men that hold the bonds right now know that they have no risk of paying for their sins.  Bonds are risk free, don't you know?  It can all be passed to the lower species.  I don't know why I have such cynicism while I sit here typing and looking at The Financial District.  Hmmm, it could be that sailboat that just went by. 

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:21 | 1479402 rocker
rocker's picture

I think you mean we are the bag holders. I understand this part. I would like to know who the bond holders actually are.

The best I came up with is the 'Euro Financial Group' and the name 'Billberg'.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:16 | 1479197 MiguelitoRaton
MiguelitoRaton's picture


Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:05 | 1479349 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture



I don't know if that worked.  Damn it.  It was a riff on July and being lied to.  I need another Scotch.  Maybe some peyote.  Yes, that would do.  This all calls for peyote and Cherry Garcia. 

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:38 | 1479427 centerline
centerline's picture

It worked perfectly.  I guess I need a scotch too.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 22:45 | 1479532 Ben Fleeced
Ben Fleeced's picture

Fukin show your face junker. I have a free kick in the throat for you. Yep IT'S FREE. like on yahoo.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:27 | 1479232 Needosh
Needosh's picture

They are a bi-word for eficiency.....  and can be a problem when pissed, ask your grand father....

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:07 | 1479357 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

And let us not forget that they also planted, and nurtured the Bolshevism seed in Russia.  Can you say, "sealed train", bitchez?

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:27 | 1479234 espirit
espirit's picture

False flag. Default of EU member bullish for Euro and US markets according to AEP.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:43 | 1479287 B-rock
B-rock's picture

Wow, that's funny!

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:54 | 1479312 Re-Discovery
Re-Discovery's picture

Germany doesn't respond well to European debts shoved down their throats.

They should include a clause thatif they have to pay on any guarantee, the defaulting county agrees to be invaded with no resistance.  The Reich may yet rise again!!

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:09 | 1479365 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

They should have strong throats with all of the sausage they take in.  Does anybody remember Kilbasa Queen from the Howard Stern show?  That is what the Germans are going to feel like. 

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:18 | 1479392 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Oh the Brat? Bring the beer. The two go together.

The nose knows no toot'  ;)

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 22:52 | 1479538 Ben Fleeced
Ben Fleeced's picture

having been granted land by Henry II, I say take 25 kilos of that sausage and stuff it your own pooper and then tell the German people what they can or cannot up with put. Go have a drink at Puss n Boots and pretend you are worthy.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:49 | 1479439 Kali
Kali's picture

That thought passed through my mind too.  Wouldn't it be ironic that Germany "owns" all of Europe in the end.  With not a bullet fired.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 09:03 | 1480091 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

All because they work harder than the rest of europe and still have functional companies where their CEO's were still paid only a fraction of their USA counterparts...

bloody germans

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 05:38 | 1479835 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The article seems to imply that Germany would be willing to pay out some obscene amount of its GDP to subsidize the continued profligacy of the southern European States, which seems unlikely to put it mildly.  Failure to explicitly endorse the monetization issue is also problematic, but from more than the traditional can-kicking perspective.  The entire Euro-zone is now more dependant on Germany than it was before to prevent collapse, and the French are more irrelevant than ever before.  What happens if they replace Frau Ferkel with Little Adolf?  Germany is in a position to demand outright monetization and the installation of a Bundesbank Bernanke at the ECB at the threat of leaving the Euro-zone and leaving the rest of Europe with an even bigger burning bag of shit on their door step.  By monetizing the Euro Germany gets what it needs to support domestic exports through a weak Euro.  WW3 would be over without a shot fired and Germany conquers Brussels (again), so onto WW4 (the "anything but" axis Berlin-Moscow-Beijing vs. Washington and the $ aligned States).  By postponing the inevitable resolution of the monetiztion question the other Euro-zone States would appear to be placing themselves at the mercy of the German political establishment, which works fine with a Miss Piggy figurehead running the show, but that paradigm might not be maintained if a more results-oriented establishment comes to power.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 07:00 | 1479862 Bang Dae Ho
Bang Dae Ho's picture

...axis Berlin-Moscow-Beijing...

you presume some superior intention/plan here... thank you for the schmooze (I am German), but German population and politicians are the same denial-can-kickers as the US and the rest of Europe. Believe me.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 08:48 | 1480056 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Actually I am presuming that (outside the of fascist/socialist single fiscal policy ambitions of the aspiring dictators in Brussels) the mindless can-kicking opens the door something even more nefarious as an unintended consequence of the current ill conceived actions.  China is propping up the Eurozone out of financial self-interest, Russia has been working its way into the multilateral EU institutions, meanwhile the EU has been increasing its dependency on Russian energy, despite the convenient reminder of the occasional drops in pipeline pressure whenever there is a particularly cold winter in Europe.  Both Russia and China have an issue with USD hegemony.  So what happens when the bill for the current round of can-kicking comes due if Russia and/or China make an offer that can't be easily refused to the next German government ?  Or absent the Russians and Chinese getting involved, what options does the next German government have other than outright monetization of EUR (and extracting concessions from Brussels and the other Eurozone countries in exchange for something which ironically supports German manufacturers and bankers) or leaving and destroying the Eurozone?  

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 07:31 | 1479898 L_Estasi_dell_Oro
L_Estasi_dell_Oro's picture

The Reich never went away. It just went undercover and international, not bound anymore to a specific country...



Thu, 07/21/2011 - 22:34 | 1479511 Quixote
Quixote's picture

"Angry Germans"--new iPad game?

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 22:54 | 1479540 Ben Fleeced
Ben Fleeced's picture

Fuck off!

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 23:23 | 1479586 Quixote
Quixote's picture

Who the fuck are you? Nice user name. Why don't you go stand in front of the Federal Reserve and wait for everyone to show up? Dillweed.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 00:18 | 1479652 wsmith
wsmith's picture

The Germans need the Euro to sell their junk.

If they went back to the Hun-mark, it would hurt their economy.

So the average Hun on the street better get used to picking up the slack.

Anyway, so long.

And God bless all you Marxist cocksuckers.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 02:45 | 1479746 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

And of course now the English speaking media will stop talking about Nazi troops invading Greece and focus on how generous the Germans are...

And all this talk about exporting countries robbing the others blind...

And all this talk about the Euro getting printed like toilet paper will also stop...

hello? No way! The Germans will not repeat the Irish error. This fund is all a charade to distract the bond markets and the media...

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 11:01 | 1480736 TK7936
TK7936's picture

What are you talking about? Look at ZH Comment Sections. The tools cant avoid a holocaust debate at the mere mention of Germany. While ZH might be the epidome of objectivity now, the users are clearly the manipulated sheep that come from the Jewish media to this site and ejaculate there "education" all over the place.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 11:08 | 1480762 TK7936
TK7936's picture

What are you talking about? Look at ZH Comment Sections. The tools cant avoid a holocaust debate at the mere mention of Germany. While ZH might be the epidome of objectivity now, the users are clearly the manipulated sheep that come from the Jewish media to this site and ejaculate there "education" all over the place.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 03:04 | 1479766 Karl Danneskjold
Karl Danneskjold's picture

thank you, best laugh in a long time...

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 19:08 | 1478989 mynhair
mynhair's picture

What can the Krauts do?  Cry like a Boner?

Looks like I sold EUR just in time.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 19:39 | 1479075 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Sold Euro just in time ? A depression means the currency (Euro) will rise sharply.

Anything the ECB et al does is just to buy time and wait for the US to implode. So far they are doing a good job. The Euro is up, there is some austarity coming down the pike and they are raising interest rates.

Contrast that with the US....

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:32 | 1479244 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Intraeuropean war is days away.

The "enlightened" fiefdoms linear thinking has once again been exploited by Mr. Market.

Chinese are doing a great job in duplicating entire cities like Florence, Hallstatt, Dorchester and others. China knows europe is days away from warpocalypse and few/no cities will remain standing when it's over.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:45 | 1479292 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

intraeuropean war days away. lulz. Take a break, you need it.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:04 | 1479347 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Actually, the more I think about it the more it's possible.


Money in the trailer park at night equals yelling that escalates into domestic violence. The neighbors know enough to stay the fook in thier own damn trailers if they too want to be safe.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:14 | 1479377 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

White trash, meth and firearms.  I think you have an idea for a great reality TV show on your hands.  Oh, wait, they already have COPS. 

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:19 | 1479395 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

No need for reality show. They are just down the road. When the wind is right... you can almost tell where they are in the cooking.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 23:00 | 1479546 Ben Fleeced
Ben Fleeced's picture

You are supposed drink Schinken Hager not smoke it.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 21:12 | 1479370 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

"Contrast that with the US...."

Currencies are backed by military might.  What are the Germans going to do, throw potato pancakes at the Greeks? 

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 01:22 | 1479695 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Ahhhh the miltary might.

How did that work for the Soviets ?

Why does somebody always have to say that...its really starting to piss me off.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 02:22 | 1479727 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

The USSR's vaunted military was a POS, the giant 50megaton H-bomb warheads taken aside.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 05:59 | 1479839 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The USSR's vaunted military was not much more of a POS that the USSA's vaunted military. 

The administrations in Washington have went from not wanting to waste million dollar cruise missiles on a few goat-fuckers in tents, to wasting trillions of borrowed dollars and thousands of lives on a few goat-fuckers in tents.  In a decade, Washington has been no more successful in pacifying Afghanistan than Moscow was during its decade-long-infatuation with the country. 

Furthermore, in eight years the USSA has failed to increase Iraq's oil production and exports to the global market to anything above the levels achieved during the Oil-for-Food racket or above pre-embargo/sanctions, pre-Iran-Iraq levels, and in exchange for the vast wealth expended in that pursuit, the US has secured a relatively small piece of the Iraqi oil concession pie for US oil firms.  Meanwhile the Russians are doing quite nicely in Iran, despite any bad memories of the USSR's annexation of Iranian oil fields in the late 40's.      

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 21:30 | 1483721 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

nice synopsis of the RISK board as is.   funny, i read this hearing a Howard Cosell voice in me head.

"Down goes Frazier!   Down goes Frazier!"

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