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The Fearmongering At The Top Begins: Obama Says "Can Not" Guarantee Social Security Payments Without A Debt Ceiling Hike

Tyler Durden's picture





 

It worked for Hank Paulson who showed up in Congress with a three page termsheet, delusions of grandeur, a scary story, and an easily frightened audience. Why should it not work for the president. As Reuters reports, "Barack Obama said in an interview on Tuesday that checks to recipients of the Social Security retirement program may not go out in early August if he and congressional leaders do not agree a debt deal. "I cannot guarantee that those checks go out on August 3rd if we haven't resolved this issue," Obama said in an interview with CBS, according to a transcript on the network's web site. "Because there may simply not be the money in the coffers to do it," Obama said." Is that so Mr. President? Please explain then how according to the most recent DTS the YTD (fiscal) amount paid out on Social Security is $469 billion, well below the amount collected from Federal Tax Deposits of $780 billion. As a comparison, this number is lower than the combination of Medicare and Medicaid ($638 billion YTD), and the combination of Defense and Education Payments ($480 billion). Indicatively, Federal salaries are a whopping $137.6 billion, or said otherwise, all of the SSN payments to date are just three times bigger than what the government pays its own employees. Perhaps a bigger issue is that the debt held by the public has increased by $720 billion YTD, a number which will soon grow to $1.5 trillion if the government does get debt hike it so desperately needs.

So please Mr. President, feel free to engage in your hollow rhetoric when addressing your political adversaries or staring at the teleprompter, but please don't pander to the general population. It didn't work for Hank Paulson, at least not the first time. We all know what happened with your all important stock market after that.

 


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Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:32 | Link to Comment element115
element115's picture

In Soviet Amerika - debt ceiling raise you!

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:55 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

LOL

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:01 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Did our president say something?

Was it the truth, or do I need to just let the lie go in one ear and out the other -- AGAIN!

 

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:35 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

for amusement purposes only

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:11 | Link to Comment curbyourrisk
curbyourrisk's picture

It is Soviamerika

 

Get it right!

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:22 | Link to Comment max2205
max2205's picture

earmarks

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:01 | Link to Comment eureka
eureka's picture

No! It is NAmeZIka - take from old people - pay PentaGun WarWhore.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:58 | Link to Comment Fascist Dictator
Fascist Dictator's picture

nahhh, it's the good ol' USSA

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:09 | Link to Comment caconhma
caconhma's picture

Obama is a real POS.

OK Mr. President, go ahead and stop paying to Social Security recipients. I am eager to see the consequences for you and your Zionist masters.

Lately, you and your handlers both became too arrogant. I don't think you are really that stupid but you never know. American people are indeed very stupid but, I think, this time, you and your handlers are making a colossal mistake.

So, go ahead, try it. After all, the French oligarchy never planned for the French Revolution.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:46 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

If they fail to do so for 3 months I think Los Angeles will burn again. As will New York, Detroit, Chicago....

At least the wages of the soldiers and national guard will still be paid...

I wonder if they'll thow cola bottles like in Athens or piss full metal jackets...

 

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 17:20 | Link to Comment thewhitelion
thewhitelion's picture

My guess would be much closer to 3 weeks.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:15 | Link to Comment Rick Blaine
Rick Blaine's picture

Nice.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:32 | Link to Comment spartan117
spartan117's picture

And there goes gold.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:33 | Link to Comment ads56
ads56's picture

Hope and change! Yes we can!

Now turn the AC off for the old people.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:58 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

He did it... and all your hopes and dreams are now worth the change in your pocket...

 

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:24 | Link to Comment Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

"Thank you Satan!"
"Yes we can!" played backwards...

CREEP -- Committee to RE-Elect the Puppet
The only fear mongering is that this worthless, incompetent asshole Wall Street puppet gets re-elected...

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:38 | Link to Comment HileTroy
HileTroy's picture

Holy shit that please put a warning on that !!

I shit my self silly

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:43 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Tha was funny Hile.

Strange how an intestinal joke will always get a laugh.

Hmmmm...

ORI

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 19:23 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

It's a Freudian thing.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:59 | Link to Comment Overpowered By Funk
Overpowered By Funk's picture

Despair and madness - same as ever. Go long Tabasco sauce - makes the cat food a little more palatable.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:41 | Link to Comment dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

catfood costs more than tuna...   it is still tuna, right??

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:47 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

it's whatever you want it to be :)

 

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 19:25 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

I thought the cat was the food.

Here kitty, here kitty, here kitty . . .

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 18:17 | Link to Comment NuckingFuts
NuckingFuts's picture

Hey Overpowered...how I love your western ways.

The only band that really mattered.

 

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:33 | Link to Comment dcb
dcb's picture

nope, the obama has to make the little guy pay, social security, retirement. can't stop the bombing in foreign ands and bring troops home. he is such a jerk, and I ain't voting for him again. I just won't vote

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:00 | Link to Comment TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

You voted for him? Or actually I should say you voted in the last election?

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:14 | Link to Comment Shameful
Shameful's picture

Bob Barr wasn't to bad.  Got a chance to talk to him after he spoke at my school.  Early in conversation he was the one to bring up hyperinflation and collapse of the system, not me.  Voting doesn't do anything but can always vote 3rd party to shake your fist at the two headed one party system.  Voting lesser of two evils helped get us here "I won't vote for _______ because they can't win" and maybe not but at least letting the oligarchs know that we are out there.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:44 | Link to Comment TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

Perhaps. However, I would never suggestion that I won't vote for ___ because they can't win. But I tell you what I won't do. Vote for a person I don't like, nor vote for a person I dont' know enough about, to put my name on the ballot.

My girlfriend voted Obama. Boy does she regret it, especially since she has to hear it from me, and read about it herself everyday. Just another typical uniformed voter. Ron Paul all the way.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:44 | Link to Comment dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

is your girlfriend Leo?   how are her solars??

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:25 | Link to Comment juggalo1
juggalo1's picture

I voted for Obama, and I am not sorry.  Was he better than McCain?  Definitely.  I can't think of any political figure I would rather have as President right now.  I include Ron Paul.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:42 | Link to Comment Tortfeasor
Tortfeasor's picture

Head in the sand

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 16:37 | Link to Comment Ms. Erable
Ms. Erable's picture

Not in the sand, but in a dark, odiferous orifice.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 16:03 | Link to Comment Fascist Dictator
Fascist Dictator's picture

not surprising that you'd vote for the evil one, just look at the evil one you're using as an avatar. very telling....

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 16:40 | Link to Comment rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

Indeed, so many fall for the “good cop, bad cop” routine.

And no matter how many needless wars, how much financial misery, or loss of freedoms, they’ll never be “sorry”

… because the horrors their “team” brings about are only measured against the worse possible they can imagine of the other “team”

- never against a standard of decency that would condemn both teams (of the plutocrats).

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:41 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

If I where American I also would have voted for him.

He made people see what politics are. That's why everybody hates them so much now.

But there where just to much... to many things that needed to be handeled. To many problems.

I think Obama is a good guy, but he can't pick his battles.

He took on to many fronts and was never able to fix his attention to 1 goal.

If he would have been elected in a economic stable economy, he would have been the best American president ever.

But he's a crisis president now, and as history shows, these never get elected twice.

 

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:46 | Link to Comment dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

Rahm made him.. Wall Street pulls his strings..  wish I knew that beforehand but the curtain is forever gone for me

 

the only politics you should worry about are local.  fight from the bottom up

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 19:27 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

No, the CIA made him.  Rahm was only a mentor/baby-sitter.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:01 | Link to Comment carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Time to file formal charges of Impeachment.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:29 | Link to Comment j0nx
j0nx's picture

This. ANY govt. official that uses their office like this to incite fear and panic in the people *cough* Paulson, et al should be tried for high crimes.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:26 | Link to Comment juggalo1
juggalo1's picture

Panic is a rational response in an insane world.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 21:26 | Link to Comment bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

Fuck off.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:26 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

and I ain't voting for him again

So,you at least admit your not real smart.

Either would have been bad, but you slected the Devils OWN.

Shame on all who Voted for Hopey Changey.....

 

He's fearmongering, and putting the onus on the GOP,while another result he would very much like is the people hitting the streets.........armed.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:35 | Link to Comment j0nx
j0nx's picture

As much as I agree with you, it's not likely that anyone else would be any better under this two party bankster owned nightmare that we find ourselves in. Nothing except for term limits and complete lockdown of campaign finance can right the American political system. $50 should be deducted from every American's annual tax return for campaign funds to be split EVENLY between all prospective politicians. That way we take the big business and wall street special interests out of the equation once and for all. They won't do it willingly and the people need to get serious about it and give them no choice in the matter. Until that happens then you can forget about anything that remotely resembles representation.

As an aside, people that voted for Obama and actually were expecting change and hope and believing his campaign bullshit should be doubly flogged for being idiots.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:50 | Link to Comment TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

No questions asked MANY people were swepted up in the "going to fix it all." They needed to be made to realize how stupid of an assumption that is. There was absolutely nothing indicating this goon was "not like rest." Nearly everything this man has said and done has been a status quo to the extreme. This has to be one of the most comical (in a sad way) presidents of all time. The transparency award? Peace prizes? Nearly everything dealing with this clown is an onion piece in itself.

People who are "uninformed" shouldn't vote. I didn't say shouldn't be ALLOWED, but shouldn't vote. I can honestly say in the last election cycle I didn't know anything about Ron Paul, so I didn't vote. I think I even liked John McCain for a little while. *Shudder* Glad my laziness/didn't-give-a-fuckness didn't constitute a vote of confidence for him.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:06 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

McCain would not have given us ObamaCare, and I think his Supreme Court nominees would at least, have been pro-Constitution.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:14 | Link to Comment TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

With McCain we would be probably be at open war with many other countries for more humanitarian reasons. He is a fanatic moron. I thought he would probably be ok and maybe a bit more "middle ground." (i don't like middle ground, but its better than "far left"). However, its clear to me now what kind of a lunatic he is. I think it might almost be BETTER with Obama than him.

I'm not disputing the Osamacare point. However, I don't think it will necessarily stand the test of time, and has only opened a can of worms in so many places. Bankrupting the corrupt system faster, might also be a plus. Depends on how one looks at it I'd say.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:17 | Link to Comment Screwball
Screwball's picture

But he might have given us Phil Gramm and of course Palin.  That's not so good either.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:27 | Link to Comment juggalo1
juggalo1's picture

I'm in favor of Obamacare.  Obviously it could have been improved, but it is a step in the right direction.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 16:40 | Link to Comment j0nx
j0nx's picture

Get the fuck outa here. Said wholeheartedly with a Jersey accent.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 20:38 | Link to Comment Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

You obviously haven't tried to get capable medical care with medicare.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:33 | Link to Comment Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Obama is acting like a bananna republic dictator.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:29 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

Obama is acting like a bananna republic dictator.

 

 

Well, he's on the money, We (most) haven't figured that it is one.Plus, he's made it into one, with a lil hep from his friends at the Fedurl Rescrew.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:42 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

He IS a banana republic dictator... with a teleprompter

...& yes... we have no bananas

 

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:33 | Link to Comment iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

Bazooka Bitchez

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:33 | Link to Comment williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:38 | Link to Comment GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

+1

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:27 | Link to Comment Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

+5... Nice beard on The Bernank Bag...

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:45 | Link to Comment NumberNone
NumberNone's picture

Flaming paper bags full of dogshit left on our front step.  Appropriate.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:46 | Link to Comment MrBinkeyWhat
MrBinkeyWhat's picture

Dear Mr. Bill,

Please stay in hiding.

With love,

MBW

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:43 | Link to Comment Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

Pure genius!

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:33 | Link to Comment Blagio
Blagio's picture

Bring it all down.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:38 | Link to Comment BeachBummed
BeachBummed's picture

Pull it!

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:04 | Link to Comment eureka
eureka's picture

Blow it!

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:59 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

As long as they do it in style, I'm oké with it.

 

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:34 | Link to Comment Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

And so it begins

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:35 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

He's already reneged on the social security payments.   There was a "guanantee" of inflation protection.  This year they decided they couldn't afford it.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:41 | Link to Comment Popo
Popo's picture

Exactly.  Why doesn't he acknowledge that they're skimming social security payments ALREADY via inflation.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:45 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Well, diet COLA will reduce geriatric obesity. 

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:02 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

(With a SMILE....) FUUUUCCCKKKK YOU!!!! (Now that is funny, I don't care who you are LOL.

Love it.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:10 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I can tell you that joke would have gone over the head of the rest of Amerika's joe six packs.  God I love ZH. 

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:11 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

dup

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:04 | Link to Comment FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Lean dog food for older citizens?

Send out the "Federal Vouchers".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GSXbgfKFWg

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:12 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

I can get chicken cheaper than dog food around here.

Maybe dry dog food is what you mean?

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 19:33 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Chicken feed is even cheaper.  Cracked GM corn . . . yum!  Even better if you soak it for a while.

Wed, 07/13/2011 - 00:52 | Link to Comment FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

"Let them eat Haitian mud pies", Moochelle Obama.  "With the right dirt, they taste great and are a low calorie, filling treat".

Wed, 07/13/2011 - 00:55 | Link to Comment FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

"Let them eat Haitian mud pies", Moochelle Obama.  "With the right dirt, they taste great and are a low calorie, filling treat".

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:12 | Link to Comment UGrev
UGrev's picture

Yeah, but the aspartame will chew the fuck out of your kidneys, cause calicium oxilate deposits in your kidneys and joints and that fucks up your day.. 

Oh,  you didn't mean that kind of COLA.. nvm 

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:16 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

hah! Nice DocDic.

As per tame people.

ORi

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 20:22 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

It's the Un-COLA.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:36 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

 

That's it; beat up on the the old folks or your soldiers.

I wonder when the "Widows and Orphans" card comes out?

Maybe it will be shuttering the monuments on the mall and non-stop videos frm the MSM of crying kids and veterans, Jefferson and Lincoln in shadow behind them.

Cutting Food stamps and welfare to the inner city areas will be last.

 

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:52 | Link to Comment mtomato2
mtomato2's picture

Those who don't see this obvious attempt to foment a battle between the elderly and the "rich" making $250,000 per year deserve to be killed in the riots they instigate.

 

Darwin lives!

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:56 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Class warfare - it's what's for breakfast Amerika!

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:32 | Link to Comment juggalo1
juggalo1's picture

I don't know if "foment" is the right word.  He is certainly trying mobilize a large constituency to his side.  What else would you expect a democratic politician to do?

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:35 | Link to Comment Gert_B_Frobe
Gert_B_Frobe's picture

Pigford Settlement payments will continue.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 22:09 | Link to Comment James
James's picture

Over on Rense.com todays pic is a truck hauling a 200 ton piece of coal.Seems they're going to put Obamas likeness on Mt Rushmore.

Truck driver said they could'nt find a 200 ton piece of shit!

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:36 | Link to Comment chet
chet's picture

Just about everything but debt service would be on the table.  Without borrowing we have to cut 40% of spending. 

 

Social Security would probably be spared, but don't count on it.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:02 | Link to Comment Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

The problem is that social security is not the government's money. The only reason they need revenues to fund it is because they borrowed and spent it all. Therefore, to renege on payments is fraud and theft.

If the government is going to default on social security, then why pay it in at all? They are allowed to collect it under the premise that it will be released at a later date- much like income taxes.

However, as more states turn to IOU's and maybe the government as well, then there could be legal justification for the non-payment of taxes. 

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:11 | Link to Comment chet
chet's picture

I agree with all your points, and I think that SS would certainly be one of the last things they would touch. 

But that leaves:  Medicare (also for them ornery seniors), Medicaid, and Defense.

All I'm saying is it isn't "fearmongering" to point out, if asked, that the failure of this legislation would likely be very very serious.  Not to mention that GDP would go negative basically immediately.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:39 | Link to Comment Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I agree it isn't fearmongering Chet, but I also question whether default is bad for the country. Who loses? Holders of American debt. Who are the holders? 

Iceland had a very successful bond auction yesterday. While the IMF may be able to put a ring around Iceland, Greece or Ireland- America is a whole different animal. 

More important, how does continuing to raise the ceiling help? It doesn't. It merely creates a larger debt obligation and larger interest payments from money created out of thin air- and who benefits from that? 

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:47 | Link to Comment chet
chet's picture

I don't think would default in terms of not paying our debt.  I think we would cut way back on entitlements and services first.  Ultimately, we are headed for some sort of calamity.  I just don't think that suddenly forcing it by not raising the debt ceiling is the way to go.  If you want to stop of the freeway, do you pull the emergency brake and come to screeching sliding halt in the middle of the fast lane, or do you work your way over the right lane and gradually slow to a stop on the shoulder?

In the long run, I agree with the GOP's approach.  Cutting spending is the best way to close the deficit.  And your right, raising more debt just makes things worse.

I just don't like the way it is being handled in DC right now.  We have the luxury of being angry absolutists here, but in DC people actually have to be adults and work with people they don't agree with.  We've condoned them, and even rewarded them, for acting like five year olds, and we're seeing the logical results of that.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:04 | Link to Comment Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I suggest a different analogy: if you are drowning in the ocean, do you add another 50 pounds concrete? 

I don't agree with government at all, nor do I think you will ever find a governmental solution palatable, because government is tyranny. It has always been tyranny and it has never transformed or evolved into less tyranny- only more.

So, why not just cut to the chase and end the deficit all together? Eliminate government.

 

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:17 | Link to Comment chet
chet's picture

Let me know how that works out.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:41 | Link to Comment fallout11
fallout11's picture

Indeed. Care to name a single instance of a civilization with "no government" in recorded  human history, aside from short periods of total anarchy/collapse/warfare?   

I've been to Somalia, and can tell you firsthand what appears 0.0001 seconds after you eliminate government - another form of government.

The tribal or clan chieftain/elder(s)/family patriarch was/were the first known form of government and dates to paleolithic times. Man has always had government, some just better (and smaller) than others.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 17:00 | Link to Comment Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Pennslyvania colony, the "wild" west, Ireland before the British conquered it, Somalia pre 1963 and in the most of the country since 1993-read, "The Law of the Somalis" by Van Notten.The examples are legion. 

Anarchy as a a form of sovereignty has been discussed since the 1800's. It was considered a natural evolution from the tyranny of government.

You assume since we have government, there is no alternative, just as the Monarchists did not foresee democracy or republics. There is a huge body of work on the subject- try "anarchy and the Law" by Stringham. 

Government always results in tyranny and trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is textbook lunacy. Allowing a small minority of the population to rob you day after day for eternity, place you in a police state and create a society where it is impossible to own a house, charge you to drive a car, visit a park or open a business? This is your idea of how to live? 

What a slave mentality.

 

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 19:46 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Anarchism worked well enough in Ukraine until the Bolsheviks decided that it was too threatening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Ukraine

Wed, 07/13/2011 - 08:47 | Link to Comment fallout11
fallout11's picture

Yep, they lasted roughly two years during the chaos of a world war, a collapsing central government (the Tsar), and subsequent revolution. As soon as things settled down, they were violently crushed. The very definition of my caveat above (i.e. short periods of anarchy/collapse/warfare).  Thomas Hobbes called it.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 13:00 | Link to Comment fallout11
fallout11's picture

Every example you cited actually had a government, just a small one.

Regarding the Pennsylvania colony, 

"The government of colonial Pennsylvania was made of the county seat. As the population grew, it became necessary to put people as the court of commissioners. These representatives were voted in by the people of Pennsylvania, and were given permission to govern over all matters, such as ones concerning public and commercial affairs."

Sounds like governance to me. See also-

http://www.publicbookshelf.com/public_html/The_Great_Republic_By_the_Master_Historians_Vol_II/pennsylvan_j.html

Ireland had tribal/clan governance prior to Britain's conquest. I'll check out the book you suggested on Somalia, but from 1993-2008 most of the country was under the control of various competing warlords (some backed by the US) and various islamic militant groups, the Ethiopian-backed Transitional Federal Government (really a local dictatorship in Mogadishu proper) not withstanding. Like I said, I've been there personally working on various engineering projects (church volunteer work) and can happily provide copious print sources to back it up. Even the main airport still regularly comes under mortar attack.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123967368677815883.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Africa/2010/0208/New-Somalia-government-offensive-against-Al-Shabab

Don't get me wrong, I subscribe to Jefferson's tennant that the best government is the one that governs least, and it sounds to me like you equate small, informally structured and/or local level governance (i.e. no CENTRAL government) as "no government" (not true). But to pretend that all government can be eliminated is naive and ignorant at best, and the vast majority of Somalians themselves will readily tell you that things after 1993 were not better than pre-1993, that even a corrupt and inefficient central government was better than warring gangs and warlords, multiple violent successions/breakups (Puntland, Jubaland, the Rahanweyn Resistance Army, etc), and 'private security forces' (militias/gangs by a new name) running their own territories.  Ask a random Somalian immigrant to the US next time you encounter one.  Now imagine the Zetas or MS13 running your local area.

True anarchy and subsequent lawlessness does not lend itself to a robust free market, enterprise, transparency, risk assessment, or proper price discovery, that requires stability. It also tends to be a destroyer of resources, rather than an effective utilizer of them. Further, human nature seems to abhor a power vacuum, anarchy is by its intrinsic nature unstable, with new would-be tyrants appearing to fill the void almost constantly. 

 

A very limited central government was tried in the United States as well, under the Articles of Confederation (1781-1789), but that approach did not endure.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:45 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

The only reason they need revenues to fund it is because they borrowed and spent it all

The Clinton 'Economic Miracle'...

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 20:02 | Link to Comment Kali
Kali's picture

but, but, but I thought SS was solvent and had a surplus /sarc.

Let it happen, then maybe j6p will get that the money they paid in IS NOT THERE.

Just like those RI and AL public pensioners are finding out.  Reality bites.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:52 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

Social Security would probably be spared, but don't count on it.

 

If it's not, get ready for a possible armed revolt.( Nothern Command/Southern Command/Canucks, on full alert..........Defcon 2 and holding.

Operation "Geriatric Geritol Cleanse",bringing caseloads of Geritol, and enemas........LOL

10 million grey hairs,marching on D.C.,now that would be sumpin......LOL

The world would love that,carried into all the Worlds homes.

American's groveling at the feet of the Beast.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:54 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

Social Security would probably be spared, but don't count on it.

 

If it's not, get ready for a possible armed revolt.( Northern Command/Southern Command/Canucks, on full alert..........Defcon 2 and holding.

Operation "Geriatric Geritol Cleanse",bringing caseloads of Geritol, and enemas........LOL

10 million Grey hairs,marching on D.C.,now that would be sumpin......LOL

The world would love that,carried into all the Worlds homes.

American's groveling at the feet of the Beast.

Satanica Pandemonium.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:20 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Chet, it's all mathematically unsustainable. And Fiat Ponzi is all mathematics. 

Simple maths too. Actually interest is the only 'real" concept in ponzi fiat land. Per 100, simple or compound.

There is no ceiling.

ORI

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/07/08/july-15th-aug-15th-month-long-window-coming-up-initial-thoughts/

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:36 | Link to Comment WallStreetClass...
WallStreetClassAction.com's picture

it could be because tax revenues come in lumps, and the short term shortfall is borrowed? ever think of that, "bitchez"?

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:37 | Link to Comment Dreadker
Dreadker's picture

So its gonna be benefits, followed by medicare/medicaid payments then the last resort of suspend the govt employees and don't pay the troops... but of course the troops have to still fight...

Did i skip back to may?  If so, then i'm selling my time machine for gold ;-)

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:03 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Even though I will pay for the debt increase through increased cost of living in general, I am soooooo grateful I don't count any of my paycheck as coming from ANY government agency.  Additionally, I have no plans on being dependent on these fucktards.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:37 | Link to Comment espirit
espirit's picture

What? No mention of Federal Govt retirees pensions not being paid on time?

Go for SS, let mayhem begin.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:42 | Link to Comment espirit
espirit's picture

I might also add that disabled veterans are also paid with SS benefits, and BO is using this as a trump card?

Massive fail.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:53 | Link to Comment KCMLO
KCMLO's picture

double post

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:52 | Link to Comment KCMLO
KCMLO's picture

While I agree with your disgust, VA disability is not paid by Social Security.  It comes from the VA directly.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:44 | Link to Comment redarrow
redarrow's picture

+1

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:38 | Link to Comment Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

We really need to start marching and then lopping off some heads.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:38 | Link to Comment Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Hey it's not just old folks on SS.  Consider the payments to the children of gangbangers killed in the line of duty.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:54 | Link to Comment Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Oh I notice now he's only talking about "retirement" benefits.  SOB targets a primarily republican voting block.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 20:01 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 20:00 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Make that the primary voting block.  There's a lot of them that depend on their SS check as their only form of income.

No SS check -- no heat, A/C, food, shelter, dog food.  "So sorry, but due to circumstances beyond my control I'm afraid I'm going to have to starve your granny.  I understand that your granny worked all her life at her low paying job and paid into social security for about 50 years believing it would care for her in her declining years, but frankly I don't give a damn."

Pretty fucking shitty, if you ask me.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:38 | Link to Comment Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

That box is less locked than Paris Hilton's.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:40 | Link to Comment Deepskyy
Deepskyy's picture

Tankz in the Streetz BITCHEZ!!!!

 

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:40 | Link to Comment grunk
grunk's picture

He's shooting this wad a little early, imho.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:41 | Link to Comment GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

MEEEE-OW! Kabuki at its finest.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:41 | Link to Comment Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Gold, record high price now?

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:43 | Link to Comment Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

.

Never tell a joke twice, good or not.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:42 | Link to Comment Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Side-splitters for contemporary living:

An old woman was arrested for shoplifting at a grocery store. When she appeared before the judge, the judge asked what she had taken. The lady replied, "A can of peaches." The judge then asked why she had done it. She replied, "I was hungry and gridlock stopped my eating money." The judge asked how many peaches were in the can. She replied, "Nine." The judge said, "Well then, I'm going to give you nine days in Gitmo--one day for each peach." As the judge was about to drop his gavel, the lady's husband raised his hand and asked if he might speak. The judge said, "Yes, what do you have to add?" The husband said, "Your honor, she also stole a can of peas."

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:43 | Link to Comment MrBinkeyWhat
MrBinkeyWhat's picture

Been married for a long time 'eh?

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:52 | Link to Comment Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

LOL..

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:42 | Link to Comment MrBinkeyWhat
MrBinkeyWhat's picture

SSI is the glue that holds the USSA together. Without that it is end game.

Think about it. Who are the predominant set of voters?

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:44 | Link to Comment magis00
magis00's picture

Hence playing the strongest card first -- "we'll have to fire police and firefighters, and turn off the electricity and the water . . . everything bad will happen if you don't do what we say" [with gun pointed at head].

 

Textbook pussy fear-monger.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:46 | Link to Comment Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

"We'll have to lay off TSA granny gropers."

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:47 | Link to Comment MrBinkeyWhat
MrBinkeyWhat's picture

Would you please.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:51 | Link to Comment Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

I would disband the TSA.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:01 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

If not disbanded, those who get the freedom taps at the airport should also be allowed to "touch" back.  What's fair is fair mother fuckers.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:37 | Link to Comment Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

No child's behind left!

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:49 | Link to Comment magis00
magis00's picture

Imagine that.  And EPA good-for-nothings.  And 100,000s of "clerical workers" and "admins" with union benefits.  And "administrators" to siphon off all the funding for the aforementioned automatons.  And 13,000 new IRS revenue agents.  And ATF agents better-suited to open new books of business for gun manufacturers than to be Gov't Ee's.  Fucking despicable.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:27 | Link to Comment John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

So true.  This would be my "threat":  I'm going to close down the dept. of energy, education, homeland security,  bring back all foreign troops and eliminate all payments to the UN and IMF and foreign aid, stop all the fraudulent SS "disability" payments and fire 50% of the federal "work force".  Most of these disabled frauds suffer from "work aversion" psychosis due to obesity.  Then I'll block grant medicaid with anything left over from revenues.  Let families take care of their own for a change.

Apparently, Obummer doesn't think families should take care of their elders (or their children for that matter).  It only "takes a village" in places like Africa.

 

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:44 | Link to Comment bankonzhongguo
bankonzhongguo's picture

Trillions for War.

Billions in no-bid contracts and mercenaries.

Trillions in private bank bailouts for fake gambling debts.

Trillions for inflated subsidized medical and prescription medicine costs.

Trillions for government pensions.

 

Social Security - paid in monthly by American Citizens for the last 76 years - 'Fuck You! You're Old and Poor!''

Oh thats right, "eat our peas."

What an absolute disgrace.

Maybe Obama is the Anti-Christ.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:45 | Link to Comment SirMike
SirMike's picture

Just remember president Sotero, the passengers of the ship usually blame the captian, not the deckhands or the midshipmen.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:46 | Link to Comment NumberNone
NumberNone's picture

You guys and your facts....

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:46 | Link to Comment Sofa King
Sofa King's picture

I think it's more on the fair side if the incompetants in Washington not get paid until they can straighten this shit out.  I think the Sheriff has got his pecking order all screwed up.  How much does it cost taxpayers for every golf outing? What's the hit for every "official" trip that the President makes that ends up at fund-raiser?  These Jackals need to take a deep hard look at their expenses first, before they ask us to pony up more cash.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:56 | Link to Comment youngman
youngman's picture

Eliminate the Secret Service first and foremost...then the limos and jets...the cafeteria..hair salon..health spa.....then watch things get done fast..

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:05 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

HA! Fair? Since when does the mafia care about fairness?

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:47 | Link to Comment Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

HOPE!!  . . . and that's ALL you'll get.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:10 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

More like... "COPE!"

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:25 | Link to Comment Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

or MOPE if you're DOPE who voted for the fraud

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:47 | Link to Comment Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

I bet a quick survey of voters would help prioritize things real quick-like.  Just lay out the line items and start shopping.

Congressional and WH compensation being highlighted in the question of course.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:48 | Link to Comment redarrow
redarrow's picture

But... there was money to bail out fat cats on Wall St?

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:49 | Link to Comment ForWhomTheTollBuilds
ForWhomTheTollBuilds's picture

And so, selective default is telegraphed.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:50 | Link to Comment Silverhog
Silverhog's picture

He could make a better pitch to the public with a pair of hand puppets and two TelePrompter's.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 13:53 | Link to Comment carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

I can guarantee he won't get reelected if he tries to pull that shit.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:05 | Link to Comment Commander Cody
Commander Cody's picture

I can guarantee that the banksters will off him if he doesn't.  Otherwise, they may have to chip in.  And that ain't happenin'.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:08 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Besides, they will just replace him with the next wannabe savior/charlatan. I'm sure Hillary wouldn't mind ascending the throne ahead of schedule.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 14:07 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Nothing to pull.  Consider the debt ceiling passed regardless of the threats of cutting off those dependent on the Feds for their end years.  Obama is really telegraphing the end to Social Security anyway.  The payments will come to those on SS, the problem is cat food will cost more than their monthly SS check. 

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