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Faith has been reduced to religious faith.
Faith simply means strong confidence.
And strong confidence can be built through multiple experiments giving out the same outcome.
Faith in the USD does not come from belief but from the multiple repetition of experiments with the outcome: USD buys values.
The story of the US tax payer is so gross.
Many non tax payer in the US. Have they lost faith in the USD? Of course not because time after time, they experience that a USD note buys stuff.
Politicians have been using the FED in order to exonerate US citizens from paying taxes.
Contrary to the idea that the USD relies on a belief in US tax payers.
The USD buys stuff. It is a fact. People have faith in the USD because of that.
Only two ends to this scenario: people whose wealth is monetized through credit emissions repell the "deal" (unlikely due to the US being a military hegemon) or they run out of wealth to be monetized.
Good to hear someone still cares about things like truth and freedom.
I cant believe this line of reasoning about pandering to banks for the good of society and the truth being better kept from us. Sounds like the junk you hear in Bachelor of Arts courses across the nations. Small notions from insignificant men.
As you say, these statements echo the knee-knocking Quislings around the world. Thank God that for every 10 000 weasly Quislings there is one Winston Churchill or Andrew Jackson.
'Those who prefer comfort to freedom deserver neither'
I must admit, I found it positively surreal to read anyone even attempting to make the argument that we would all be better off by looking the other way to massive institutional crimes, financial manipulation and governmental monetary abuse. I can only surmise that such people have utterly lost any sense of justice or moral outrage. They are functionally slaves in every sense of the word.
Seriously though, I'm asking a real question. Can anyone of you really brilliant economists/hedge fund managers tell me how it is that a person who works for a company NOT associated with the federal government can ever beat inflation. I know the deal about living way below your means and saving.... but even this scenario doesn't keep up with inflation and the interest rates are so low on cd's..... money markets aren't safe, even pensions now are considered more or less at risk in this economic environment. And let's don't even get started on "social security" .... Used to be the deal was to invest in real estate!!! But now what? What in the world is a 50 year old person with a negative net work roughly equal to a year's salary supposed to do in order to make it over the finish line without ending up on the streets these days. I know it is complicated but there are a lot of really smart people here and I do feel more overwhelmed with finances with each passing year....... and I'm realizing there aren't that many more years left to pass...... what say ye???
Welcome to the hamster wheel of life under fiat currency!
You will be receiving your free debt collar shortly.
Keeping up with inflation? Don't you know that that is positively unpatriotic! What are you, one of those "extremists" and "conspiracy theorists" who dares to question the system?
In all seriousness, my modestly informed suggestion for keeping up with inflation would be putting some wealth into tangible assets, such as precious metals or farmable real estate. It is, however, the very nature of the game inflicted on us by our financial and monetary masters that there be few if any meaningful avenues of escape. In the end, there may be NO way to make it over the "finish line", although holding gold and/or silver have historically been one's best bet in similar circumstances.
OT/Rant: The amount that Pres Barry, Bernanke, and Michelle say "UH" is starting to really piss me off!!! Is this an attempt to dumb down 'Merca, or do they really have that much trouble speaking in coherant sentences. Do they have "Uh" on the teleprompters? I fucking hate these people.
Substitute "The Fed" for "The Second Bank of the United States"
"The paper system being founded on public confidence and having of itself no intrinsic value, it is liable to great and sudden fluctuations, thereby rendering property insecure and the wages of labor unsteady and uncertain. The corporations which create the paper money can not be relied upon to keep the circulating medium uniform in amount. In times of prosperity, when confidence is high, they are tempted by the prospect of gain or by the influence of those who hope to profit by it to extend their issues of paper beyond the bounds of discretion and the reasonable demands of business; and when these issues have been pushed on from day to day, until public confidence is at length shaken, then a reaction takes place, and they immediately withdraw the credits they have given, suddenly curtail their issues, and produce an unexpected and ruinous contraction of the circulating medium, which is felt by the whole community. The banks by this means save themselves, and the mischievous consequences of their imprudence or cupidity are visited upon the public."
"But when the charter for the Bank of the United States was obtained from Congress it perfected the schemes of the paper system and gave to its advocates the position they have struggled to obtain from the commencement of the Federal Government to the present hour. The immense capital and peculiar privileges bestowed upon it enabled it to exercise despotic sway over the other banks in every part of the country. From its superior strength it could seriously injure, if not destroy, the business of any one of them which might incur its resentment; and it openly claimed for itself the power of regulating the currency throughout the United States. In other words, it asserted (and it undoubtedly possessed) the power to make money plenty or scarce at its pleasure, at any time and in any quarter of the Union, by controlling the issues of other banks and permitting an expansion or compelling a general contraction of the circulating medium, according to its own will."
"The result of the ill-advised legislation which established this great monopoly was to concentrate the whole moneyed power of the Union, with its boundless means of corruption and its numerous dependents, under the direction and command of one acknowledged head, thus organizing this particular interest as one body and securing to it unity and concert of action throughout the United States, and enabling it to bring forward upon any occasion its entire and undivided strength to support or defeat any measure of the Government. In the hands of this formidable power, thus perfectly organized, was also placed unlimited dominion over the amount of the circulating medium, giving it the power to regulate the value of property and the fruits of labor in every quarter of the Union, and to bestow prosperity or bring ruin upon any city or section of the country as might best comport with its own interest or policy."
I am quite surpised no one (well maybe besides carbonmutant) is mentioning one of if not the hugest factor the fed and tptb is resisting this. yes, lots of monetary/fiscal reasons, but i don't think that is all of it.
Are you all not aware of the size and scope of the black budgets this country has? it is massive. what about all the tons (literal tons) of cash shipped to Iraq for "reconstruction."
What about all the money for coups, opium growers in afghanistan, all the fiascos in latin america. what about the money for bribes? what about sending a few billion to allies without a peep? the list is almost infinite.
what about DoD money, NSA money and so forth.
what if their is a "deep black budget" whereby cia/dia etc. have a direct line to the reserve? wheather it be by phys. FRN or electrons, they must have a back door to the fed, i'm sure cloaked in national security language.
What are the Federal Reserve's responsibilities?
Today, the Federal Reserve's responsibilities fall into four general areas:
• conducting the nation's monetary policy by influencing money and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of full employment and stable prices • supervising and regulating banking institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nation's banking and financial system and to protect the credit rights of consumers • maintaining the stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets • providing certain financial services to the U.S. government, to the public, to financial institutions, and to foreign official institutions, including playing a major role in operating the nation's payments systems
If one were to "grade" the Fed on actual performance vs. charter (above), what would they get? How about "F"? Since any drunken lemur could do a better job that this, one has to question the Fed's real charter... You know, the one that would be explained by an audit.
I am all for an audit of the FED. But, what to do with the results? The only logic move is to move towards sound money which means to end the FED. This should be done for the future of the nation.
But now for the bad news.
The US Government cannot function without the FED. The FED is the only avenue available to soften a debt crisis through QE. Essentially, the FED's only real role now in monetary "whatever" and interest rate "inaction", is in the power to debase the currency through QE. This is their last and only real meaningful role, and a logical conclusion to a nation which has fundementally separated its fiscal and monetary policy controls.
Many argue that the politicians will not act until crisis. However, by then it will be too late to protect some of our more vulnerable citizens, like seniors and people that benefit from social programs. Because austerity means reducing benefits.
In the end, the option to embrace debt is really a fools errand when you consider what the politicians roll is in representing sound judgement. Their actions do have consequences that effect the people they are supposed to represent.
The real point of the Dodd-bill, written by Wall Street bankers, is to kill "audit the fed" legislation passed earlier.
And this bill is touted as financial reform. When it's passed the Obama administration will brag about achievements in "regulatory reform". Half the country will believe he has done something to protect them from Wall Street.
Meanwhile, the Fed continues operating in total secrecy, printing untold amounts of money and giving it to the oligarchs.
DO NOT AUDIT THE FED!
Call your senator now and tell them to vote down any bill that would open up the books at the FED.
Do you want WWIII? Do you want blood in the streets? Do you want seniors dropping like flies? Do you want to see dead bodies of children all around? Do you want to see Mushroom clouds over major cities!
The truth can be hidden. The truth never came out about Keneddy, 9/11, Obama's birth certificate!
Keep the FED secret= Keep people safe
you are a MONUMENTAL RETARD.
What are you talking about? All of it is a lie and we need to keep living the lie? if we 'uncover' those that don't want to be uncovered it's the end of civilation as we know it? i say bring it on, I'd rather be dead than live a lie.
If Toathis' post was not meant as a farce, then I as well find it pathetically spineless and lacking in any intelligence or integrity whatsoever.
Thanks for the hearty laugh, Toathis!
"Mushroom clouds" if the Fed is audited, dead bodies of children lying in the streets as a result of the exposure of their crimes?
That shit is gold, man, GOLD! LOL!
well it is not really funny at all. Don't know why you are laughing.
Do you want the dollar to collapse? What is the going to do to seniors on fixed income? what is it going to do for struggling families having a hard time already feeding their children.
Yes, DEAD BODIES! Crime would be out-of-control! Yes, we would most definitley have another World War.
Have you ever considered that? I would like you to rebute my statement that the truth can be hidden. It has been hidden. Plenty of successful cover ups. Look at the examples I showed you
Oh sure, the truth can be hidden --- for a while. And economic reality can be ignored or overridden, for a while. But the laws of existence cannot be ignored forever, and reality cannot be cheated indefinitely.
Anyway, your hysterical doom-mongering is patently absurd, and utterly baseless. Mankind has not only existed WITHOUT a gigantic parasitic bankster class in the past, but prospered as a result, and will again.
Or do you believe that the ONLY remedy for the pain of drug withdrawal is to administer progressively higher and higher doses of that drug, until the patient is killed as a result? THAT is what you are asking us to believe, as inherently ridiculous and self-destructive a position as it is.
Get a grip!
"National Security" is a tough wall to climb... especially without a Judge to support your case.
Most judges rollover when that card is played.
" The Fed argues that an audit would interfere with its monetary policy decisions. That is incorrect for at least two reasons."
Is it not correct in that the "decisions" would no longer be hidden from scrutiny, or the reasoning behind making same said decisions, and hence would interfere with the ability to make decisions, and act on those decisions, which might otherwise be preferable ( to the FED) to be hidden from scrutiny ?
My gosh, if the Fed is that insecure... I can provide a hug.
It's not as if there are millions out there that are second-guess past Fed monetary policy TODAY. They'll get criticized nonetheless. You think no one in policy circles haven't approached Bennie Mae with "what in the hell do you think you're doing with ZIRP and QE"?
The difference is that the general public doesn't know about such things until way after the fact. The issue is, under a Fed audit-- it's still well after the fact.
Most of us (rightly) suspect that if the Fed staunchly opposes being audited, they likely have something material to hide. A huge issue on an any audit is not to necessarily ask "why" a particular policy may be in place, moreso than just figuring out "where" the money is going in the first place.
And the scary thing about the Fed is that we really don't have any idea WHERE $2 trillion went, nor do we know WHY. And Bennie Mae has already told us its really none of our business.
Will the FED dump it QE assets on Fannie and Freddie? AEI is arguing that it should.
"Here's an excerpt from the AEI's web page by the eerily-named "Shadow Financial Regulatory Committee" which explains what's going on:
"Freddie and Fannie have been placed in conservatorship and the Treasury has confirmed that their debt is now guaranteed by the U.S. Government. This means that their debt is essentially identical to Treasury debt. The Treasury could simply issue Treasury debt to Freddie and Fannie with the offsetting accounting transaction being an IOU to the U.S. Treasury. Freddie and Fannie could then swap the acquired Treasury debt for MBS held by the Federal Reserve. This transaction would have several desirable features. It would place housing debt on the books of Freddie and Fannie where it belongs and remove the Fed from financing U.S. housing policy, which is appropriately a fiscal policy and not a monetary policy function. This would also help to re-establish Federal Reserve independence from the Treasury and fiscal policy. Finally, it would free the Fed to device strategies to reduce its balance sheet by engaging in more traditional asset sales in the much deeper Treasury market where the pricing impacts would be smaller and would accommodate a more rapid reduction in excess reserves." ("Mortgage Backed Securities in the Federal Reserve’s Portfolio" Shadow Statement No. 294, American Enterprise Institute)"
These are the same folks that argue that the national debt and the deficit are too high. Never mind that we have given trillions to wall street and continue with programs designed to bail out the banks under the ruse of bailing out the homeowner. More of our tax dollars are heading to Greece in the form of IMF aid. Of course the tax entitlements, contact entitlements, AG entitlements, and the bailout entitlements don't appear to be a part of the deficit commission. No, let's go after SSA and medicare. What a farce.
Average man is hardly touched by deflation. Getting hyper about it is for the banks and other failed institutions. Hyper deflation wont affect my taters. Hyperinflation will bring the hungry door to door.
Already figure whats good for the banks is what will be done, hyperinflation here we come.
dead wrong. If you are a saver and have money this when you get rich and everyone else is in the poor house because the very nature of deflation happens because there is no money. Simple Economic theory. Some people here blow my mind.
The lady above says auditing the Fed will immediately throw us into the Great Depression. Amazing tards abound everywhere.
Let's say nothing and let a private banking cartel continue to do what they want by binding us to debt forever. WOW, sounds like a great idea.
Beam my up Scotty.
Where are the goldbugs now saying everything is a scam but gold is the answer. Funny we are having nations default and gold has hardly moved. The only time gold moves is when the big dogs sell and sell short then wait for the Rocky Raccoons to convince his clients gold is the answer then you dopes buy it up again only for the big dogs to get further short and wait for the same genius's to buy it up again.
"The lady above says auditing the Fed will immediately throw us into the Great Depression. Amazing tards abound everywhere."
What I'm implying is that no amount of political pressure through conventional channels is going to convince the polity to audit the Federal Reserve, because of the obvious economic damage resulting from doing this (in addition to the pile of other incentives via campaign contributions/blackmail/kickbacks/etc.). Think it through politically, if you value your survival as a politician in this system, there is no incentive (and a great deal of disincentives) to push for auditing the Federal Reserve. Simple economic theory indeed, sir, perhaps you should review the section on cost/benefit analysis.
The merits of actually following through this audit are basically irrelevant, our current power structure ensures that this won't occur. The question then is what we can actually do to affect the overall situation. Preaching to the choir or trying to affect change within the current system isn't going to do the job. Flamethrowing dumbfuck insults isn't going to get you anywhere either.
Well now that you clarified it I will take back my flamethrowing dumbfuck insult. I agree but it awakens senitment.(hopefully)
No more than the US government can do squat to financially hurt Goldman Sachs it's the sentiment and a public awakening. It's the only thing we have left.
I'm with you, I think I've just reached the point in my analysis where anything short of civil unrest doesn't appear like it's going to do the job. Fortunately, the controllers of the machine are still human and thus mortal. I know there are a lot of folks out there that have seen the light and are actively working legal channels to try and raise awareness and build pressure, and I think that is a noble cause/purpose, but I question whether it's ultimately futile, and whether more drastic action might be needed.
Funny. We TOTALLY agree. It's not going to do squat, there is no question about it. It's like an indivdual getting audited who knows he can hid this and that, if the taxpayer does it and gets caught it could be jailtime, if the Fed Res does it, it's a mistake if it's every found out at all. Totally futile in the end result. Sad. Civil unrest will just account for lots of military and camps full of the people revolting, unfortunately that won't work either.
Yep. I guess we should all just give up, roll over, and surrender to criminality and serfdom. Why bother rocking the boat? Nothing is worth fighting for, justice and truth are just futile illusions. Move along, move along.
i'll be the head dog in the pack leading the charge guy. I'm an animal, I'm just stating the obvious. relax. The fact is too many people have no balls and as a result the fight would be futile. Facts are facts however, personally, I'll NEVER ROLL OVER. Kill me first. I'll go with.. is it North Dakota's slogan? Live Free or DIE.
" ... no amount of political pressure through conventional channels is going to convince the polity to audit the Federal Reserve"
" ... no amount of political pressure through conventional channels is going to convince the polity to audit the Federal Reserve"
That is the "conventional wisdom", certainly, regarding auditing the Fed.
But never, EVER forget that politics is the art of the possible.
History is littered, indeed crammed full, of examples of events which were considered "impossible" --- until they happened.
Even if the current fight to audit the Fed ends in a temporary stalemate or defeat, it will have accomplished a great deal toward exposing the lies and corruption of the power elite to light, and very possibly ending their abuses down the road sooner than would have otherwise occured.
I agree with this. At the point when it becomes politically preferable to cause a (short term) economic crisis, vs losing power - the politicians will choose to keep power. So... they're really just waiting until a crisis is demanded of them by their most powerful constituents, and they'll deliver. Right now, they're controlled by special interests - but be careful, because things like urgent populism and nationalism can be more powerful than money "in the moment".
That said - I believe the disaster predicted from a Fed audit is exaggerated.
And that said ... regardless - in my opinion, constitutional integrity trumps economic stability every single time.
Its very existence is beyond the authorized powers of the Constitution.
Nobody is going to sign off on auditing the Fed because it would immediately chuck us into a great depression. Just ask yourself what the implications would be of a true valuation of the 1.1 trillion in MBS's currently on their books. That stuff is probably worth about 400 billion, tops (ie., a true valuation would mean a 63% drop in asset value). Now consider that the total proportion of the MBS's to the Fed's total balance sheet is about 50%. In other words, an audit of the fed would yield, just on the MBS portion, a 32% drop in the total valuation of the balance sheet.
This then presents two scenarios. The Fed could either maintain the currency/balance sheet proportion and plunge us headfirst into hyperdeflation, or, decouple the currency/balance sheet proportion and plunge us headfirst into hyperinflation. Either way we'd be completely fucked.
It may help some to vent about stripping the FED naked, but there's no chance it will ever happen.
Long money on these MBS's looks out 10-20-30-40-100 years and by then today's valuations may look like pennies.
There's the public story of the "Fed" being created in 1913 (along with the IRS) and that's sort of the level of "real" that you get in "dolt" history class. As in its "neat" until you try to do something with it, then you realise its meaningless.
So, a little closer to the "real" (but of course never real) is that the Fed was created by the Owners to allow repayment of a debt. What is this debt? Is this a crim network and they set up the Fed in 1913 to con everyone, usurp power, and rule the world? Maybe. Is it the case that the US has been bankrupt since 1789 and the Owners have been trying to collect since? Maybe.
Regardless, the FED is a supervisorly org in an org chart of a receivership (the US, since 1932 at the very latest). It looks like this (Owners/creditors/Ex-US) > (Fed/Ex-US) > (Dept. Treasury/Ex-US[?]) > (Supervisorly Orgs / CFR / Foundations /Tri-Lat/ Etc) > (More Supervisory / Lesser in Authority / Congress [all attorneys are ex-US, regardless]) > (More Supervisory / Less in Authority / Judical / Police ) > (More Sup. / Media ) > (US ****small**** >>>c<<< citizens, no longer large C .) Large C was removed in 14th "Red" amendment when all citizens were relegated to the level of rights of slaves. (neat trick eh?)
So please Fed is ex-US. Greenspan was quoted as saying "Y'all know that the basement of the FRB-NY is ex-US...."
So all these cries for "End" "Audit" "Regulate" the FED have no merit.
Right now, FED is appealing the request for records and will go all the way to the Supreme Court, but they will never tell anyone what their real role is. They could say, "Hey we're ex-US, so piss off." But they want to keep the belief system going that they are US and that FRNs are US. Even though that is patently false to anyone who cares to read.
Hey coming to ZH is cool, but go to Mises and read. Hunt around and find what else interests you.
And quite frankly there are quite a few folks here who (for cause or not) do not know a great deal about the "money" system. And I include my self in that group, because my world view changes radically about every month.
Washington:"But funneling hundreds of billions to foreign nations and foreign banks, accepting worthless junk from the too big to fails and marking it at unrealistic valuations, and doing the other things which the Fed has been doing recently..."
Bennie Bernank-ster:"Are all in a day's work at the Fed... I mean...
Well, Washington, these specific allegations you've made...
are absolutely bizarre...
and I have absolutely no knowledge of anything like what you've just described."(Fingers crossed under the table...)
Audit th Fed, end the Fed...the mantra misses the point. Protecting the unwashed from the information presupposses that the unwashed will give a rat's about the information.. the numbers are just nuts and bolts. eah, there might be some market action, Pensions might be rocked.. but they are anyway. Like Institutions, the unwashed want some leadership on the economy. It isn't coming from the Fed- it's like a housewife who tidies up all th rooms in a house, the washing, the hoovering, except one. Where she puts all the dirty clothes, plates, rubbish sacks... the masses aren't looking forward to sorting through the trash, they just want it dealt with.
Auditing the Fed isn't a goal unto itself, it's in the context of sorting out the mess.. setting up closed funds to hold the junk- placing incentives around those, to get investors to sort it. It's about writing off what isn't worth holding.. keeping adequate reserve ratios vs. risk, by splitting up core banking functions from prop-trading.. that's basic. People shouldn't have faith in a financial system where commercial and industrial banking functions are used to underwrite synthetics, or secondary markets like CDOs'. Yeah, that's what gets me about the argument to protect the faith in the financial system.. it's not a healthy system.
Look at it this way. The insane toxic waste and derivatives are financial black holes larger than the entire world's economy. All they were doing was passing money back and forth between themselves. The "Federal" "Reserve" (A deliberate misnomer), then bought all these worthless notes from the insane banks, and has them on their "balance sheet", to the tune of 1.3 trillion! This is abuse of power. Any other random pair of counterparties will prompt another bailout when margin calls are again triggered. Looks like today, possibly. Since the counter-party risk is larger than GDP, it cannot possibly be paid. Declare all CDS Null and Void. Now.
End the Fed .. Shut down Goldman Sachs.. Go Ron Paul..
>>> one of the few honest people in D. C.
It is blatantly obvious to anyone with a pulse and a brain that those whom dont want to be audited have something to hide -- and are most likely breaking the law! No one in organized theft and looting old ladies wants an "audit".
I am absolutly confident that one would find that the Federal Reserve is as crooked as a coffin nail, serves ONLY private interests (domestic be damned), is indeed VERY politicially fallable, and even worse does not serve the interests of the citizens of the United States at all, if ever. Fraud Street is another matter, as the Fed obviously is the corrupt enabler dripping with moral and systemic hazzard -- Good for the street!
I know this because of the way savers and risk averse are being thown to the dogs by their precious "federal reserve mafia." This same private bank mafia that puts justice, enforcement, regulation, and old ladies on the street so it's private interests can steal bonus after bonus after bonus out of the US Treasury.
END JP MORGAN'S FED MAFIA AND BURN ALL THEIR SHIT TICKETS!
Who the hell wants to be audited. I'd rather have an enema.
Maybe instead of T-shirts ZH should make "End The Fed" enema bulbs.
"And with this handy extension, it can also be used as a baster on Bernanke and Geithner's cooked goose!"
"Am I concerned that some of the most powerful and wealthiest people in the world are in opposition to my amendment, people who have run the United States Congress for decades?" Sanders asked reporters rhetorically before a caucus meeting today. "Do I have any worry about that? Yeah. I do."
This is the right thing to do but will never happen, American citizens are too "soft".
"On each and every country; The citizens get the government they deserve."
audit the fed petition:
The whole failure for this bill to be easilty passed in light of all that has happened amazes me. It has really detroyed my faith in this country and in our so called democracy. I've come to understand the terrorist mind set where one commits acts of violence agains the state because of feeling helpless to the governing powers. And because the will of the people gets ignored. when Polls, petitions, events, etc prevent the state from functioning for the people what does one do? I get it. Why we are going down this road I don't know, but seeing the rise of domestic "terror" groups doesn't surprise me, and I'm sure there will be more.
Thanks for the link. I have passed it on. The FED crossed the line when Turbo Tax Tim was presdident of the New York Fed and put the central bank in the micro business and out of the macro business. Once the FED got into the business of picking and choosing which individual firms would libve and die, it became just another political animal and should be treated as such. Particularly if it helps us put both Turbo Tax Tim and the Egregious Ben Bernanke in jail.
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