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Feds Try To Confiscate $7 Million In Silver Liberty Dollars

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Following the recent conviction of Bernard von NotHaus for his "domestic terrorism", "dollar counterfeiting" Liberty Dollar operation (for which he faces up to 25 years in jail and a $750,000 fine), the Feds are now scrambling to recover each and every ounce of physical silver available as part of the fallout. Today, for example, AP reports that Federal prosecutors tried to confiscate NotHaus' hoard of silver "Liberty Dollars" worth about $7 million. Whether or not this 181,000 ounces of "fungible" physical silver will be enough to satisfy Comex silver deliveries by Federal authorities (read a key tri-party repo clearer bank), remains to be seen.

From AP:

"The prosecutors successfully painted Mr. von NotHaus in a false light and now the U.S. Attorney responsible for the prosecution is painting the case in a false light, saying that it establishes that private voluntary barter currency is illegal," Michel wrote.

The trial was scheduled to resume Monday in Statesville. The case involves more than five tons of Liberty Dollars and precious metals seized from a warehouse, which the government wants to take by forfeiture, according to federal prosecutors and Michel.

Federal prosecutors successfully argued that von NotHaus was, in fact, trying to pass off the silver coins as U.S. currency. Coming in denominations of 5, 10, 20, and 50, the Liberty Dollars also featured a dollar sign, the word "dollar" and the motto "Trust in God," similar to the "In God We Trust" that appears on U.S. coins. "Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism," U.S. Attorney Anne Tompkins said in a statement after von NotHaus was convicted.

The concerns raised by von NotHaus and his group are finding resonance among some state lawmakers, too. About a dozen states have legislation that would allow them to produce their own currency backed by gold or silver in the event of hyperinflation striking the U.S. dollar. North and South Carolina are among those states.

Not everyone believes in the purity of von NotHaus' motives: "NotHaus' group has been followed for years by the Southern Poverty Law
Center, a group that tracks political extremism. Long before the
government began its investigation into von NotHaus, the group was
raising concerns about the popularity of Liberty Dollars among fringe
groups on the far right."

"He's playing on a core idea of the radical right, that evil bankers in the Federal Reserve are ripping you off by controlling the money supply," said Mark Potok, spokesman for the group.

Um, is this actually subject to debate?

In the meantime, we wonder just how much more physical in the form silver-tipped "bringer of peace" missiles will be used up in the upcoming Operation Chocolate Dawn about to break out and restore human rights in Ivory Coast.

 

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Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:01 | 1133631 tallen
tallen's picture

Looks like they need to seize another few billion ounces to cover JPM's short

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=givYu6BW_mk&feature=player_embedded

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:02 | 1133693 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

The war has escalated.  They are fighting fire with fire.  Their shorts are no longer functioning, we won that battle, but we need to keep the heat on!  Buy silver!

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:19 | 1133770 American Dissident
American Dissident's picture

Whats this, Government's afraid of system avoidance and consumer empowerment that challenges their enumerate collectivist Ponzi pledging idiocy.

S H O C K I N G 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 16:35 | 1134222 Holodomor2012
Holodomor2012's picture

Dont like gefilte fish?  EXTREMIST!

 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:52 | 1133632 Strider52
Strider52's picture

There is no more Silver, Bitchez

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:53 | 1133634 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Thugocracy.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:15 | 1133749 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Yes.

OK, he should not have written "dollars" on his coins, but why are they targeting him rather than the criminial banksters?

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:49 | 1133960 Hero Protagonist
Hero Protagonist's picture

Agreed.

Looking at (Title 18 USC 486)  http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/718/usc_sec_18_00000486----000-.html, it appears that it doesn't matter whether you try to impersonate a coin or not.  Bottomline: You can't create a coin to compete period.  Is that possible?

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 16:07 | 1134036 Anonymouse
Anonymouse's picture

Agree he was foolish in how he did it.
But one thing I never heard the feds explain was how a "counterfeiting" scheme of buying silver at $38 and coining it for us as a $1 coin was going to be sustainable for long. If infiltrating the coins into general use to confuse the public was the concern, that implies they would be used for exchanges worth $1.
Who would do that?

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 16:20 | 1134143 Sheikh Djibouti
Sheikh Djibouti's picture

I remember seeing Von Nothaus on a promotional video clip in the 'early days' of internet video clips, circa 1999.

In the segment he spends some of his silver coins at local merchants who seem downright confused, but end up accepting the coins (at least, the ones that made it into the clip did).

I remember thinking at the time that it was sort of strange trying to spend them as legal tender, as at the time the new Sacagawea dollar coin had just came out and I was trying to get more people to use it (alas, they are rusting in vaults now).

While his ethics were in the right place, the Feds targeted him for other reasons and although I think he should simply be reprimanded and fined, there are clearly alternative motives to their bringing a case against him.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 16:57 | 1134343 Bagbalm
Bagbalm's picture

The dollar sign first showed up on pieces of eight. They have dollars in Canada, Australia, Bahamas, and a bunch more. Don't bring any back from vacation unspent now or you may be a rightwing terrorist...

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 19:42 | 1134921 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Really?

And why not?

They don't own that word.

We do.

I will outlive the United States of America.

 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 19:47 | 1134935 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Before the United States existed, there were Americans.

After the United States ceases to exist, there will be Americans.

And after the tyranny is dead, we will lead the world again.

 

 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 20:51 | 1135153 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

amen brother mick!  the word "dollar" has many different meanings and is used by many different countries.  i call bs on this alleged terrorist conviction.  it is extremely difficult to avoid use of banks and credit cards but it can be done.  did they have plastic cc's in 1776?  don't think so!

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 00:59 | 1135748 throwitontheground
throwitontheground's picture

You two got it covered!  The law is a whore but the anarchists would rather see Geitner and all the Gov Saks (and all government SACKS OF sheet) with their heads on the chopping block rather than this disaster.  I couldn't agree with you two more..

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 01:01 | 1135749 throwitontheground
throwitontheground's picture

You two got it covered!  The law is a whore but the anarchists would rather see Geitner and all the Gov Saks (and all government SACKS OF sheet) with their heads on the chopping block rather than this disaster.  I couldn't agree with you two more..

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 19:48 | 1134943 destiny
destiny's picture

Oh sh...t, the guy did'nt make it on the bilderbergers list... wrong caste.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:18 | 1133763 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Yep. The feds can bring home a case against a guy minting silver, but haven't indicted or prosecuted anybody related to the banking meltdown.

The cops are bought. Banana Republic USA.

Disgusting, ain't it?

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 20:52 | 1135159 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

yes, especially when we grow no bananas in the ol' u s of a!

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 01:03 | 1135755 throwitontheground
throwitontheground's picture

well we can confirm what it feels like to live in a third world nation...very soon if not already.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:53 | 1133635 The Axe
The Axe's picture

Long Silver Long Ammo

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:57 | 1133665 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

Need silver bullets to take down vampires.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 18:51 | 1134761 long juan silver
long juan silver's picture

Yours are bogus

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:08 | 1133729 Clampit
Clampit's picture

Yeah, what is the legal velocity limit for compliance with a confiscation order?

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 20:57 | 1135173 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

from answers dot com - "In armor and projectile testing, the lowest possible velocity at which any one of the complete penetrations is obtained; since the limit velocity is difficult to obtain, a more easily obtainable value, designated as the ballistic limit, is usually employed."

so, the correct question (still unanswered) appears to be what is the legal ballistic limit for silver projectiles in a confiscation order.

 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:13 | 1133638 Clampit
Clampit's picture

I still think Robert Kahre for POTUS...

"Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism..."

States as terrorists?

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:57 | 1133641 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

Is there no mention that each "DOLLAR" is worth $38.50 today? Only a moron would try slip these into US circulation. How do you front-run stupidity?

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:03 | 1133692 Clint Liquor
Clint Liquor's picture

That is irony, isn't it. The Counterfeiter was minting coins of increasing value. Meanwhile the legal tender FRNs are headed to ass-wipe status.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:16 | 1133752 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+++ you guys

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:34 | 1133867 Clampit
Clampit's picture

"How do you front-run stupidity?"

Start a government?

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:34 | 1133880 DosZap
DosZap's picture

No, and no reason.

He was simply trying to sell Bullion to J6P for the crash.

Where he screwed up was using incorrect wording on the coins.

And trust me, his 7 mil is gone, he was convicted of a Felony, so all his earthly property is now the Feds.

No appeals, screwed.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 16:28 | 1134181 DivisionBell
DivisionBell's picture

http://www.littletoncoin.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product5%7C10001%7C10001%7C-1%7C35757%7C17009

How are these fake mints still in business?  They are making exact replicas of the $50 Gold Buffalo, sans gold.  Bernard had a unique design on his coins, these people are blatently copying official coinage and plating it in gold.  Is the difference that Liberty Dollars actually have value?

 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 17:53 | 1134596 JoeSexPack
JoeSexPack's picture

Great point, he might walk based on this.

The fake Buffalo nickels have the govt's name & the word 'cents'.

Much more evidence of counterfeiting than Liberty Dollars, or Ron Paul Dollars.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 17:58 | 1134606 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Exactly.  I don't know what the exact opposite of counterfeiting is, but I'm pretty sure liberty dollars fall under that category.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 18:26 | 1134693 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

....right you are....that's my take on it...passing off something of lesser value for something of greater value...his crime appears to be more like uncounterfeiting...passing off something actually of greater value than what is recieved in exchange for it....

 

...and then there is the other very obvious fact: his coins bore no resemblence to anything actually in circulation....our government once again makes itself look stupid.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:54 | 1133643 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

Heidelberg GTO, bitches.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 01:09 | 1135762 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Heidelberg Speedmaster 102vp or a row of Miehle 77" 6-colors, judging the Bernank volume...

Hell, the Bernank should go Heidelberg heatset web...

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:56 | 1133644 famousamos
famousamos's picture

Silver - to the moon - bitchez!

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:54 | 1133645 HamyWanger
HamyWanger's picture

"Not everyone believes in the purity of von NotHaus' motives: "NotHaus' group has been followed for years by the Southern Poverty Law Center, a group that tracks political extremism. Long before the government began its investigation into von NotHaus, the group was raising concerns about the popularity of Liberty Dollars among fringe groups on the far right.

I've always said that bigot, nerdy libertarians were dangerous and racist. 

 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:57 | 1133667 The Axe
The Axe's picture

I resemble that remark!!!

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:09 | 1133722 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Commies hate real money -- unless it's theirs.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:18 | 1133780 DosZap
DosZap's picture

I would believe BERNANKE before the scum sucking pigs a SPLC.

THe SPLC Makes UP shit about any group that is not ultra left wing.

They are worse than the ACLU.

You own a weapon, have a Concealed carry permit,go to a house of worship,do not agree with ALL the Gov't is doing, against illegal immigration?,you believe in the Constitution?.

Your their ENEMY,just like you are to the DHS.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 16:15 | 1134108 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ Dos Zapos!

The SPLC is a leftist bunch of troublemaking scum.  THEY are internal enemies, just like CAIR and many others.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 17:03 | 1134384 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

++++DosZap!!!

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:23 | 1133812 trav7777
trav7777's picture

SPLC is jew-run and funded

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 16:05 | 1134035 Andy_Jackson_Jihad
Andy_Jackson_Jihad's picture

I believe the extremist thing to do is start taking hostages/blowing up innocents until NotHaus is released from prison.  Worked for the PLO didn't it?

 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 19:49 | 1134944 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Worked for Israel.

 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 16:43 | 1134255 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Southern Poverty Zionist Unlawful Center. 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:56 | 1133648 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

i hope no one confiscates my farmville dollars.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 19:06 | 1134804 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

There have been proposals to tax virtual money units, if they actually acquire real world value.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 19:08 | 1134809 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

That's interesting, considering I attribute negative actual real world value to virtual money units, especially when discussing FarmVille and all those other crap FB games.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 00:57 | 1135673 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

Good luck taxing BitCoins (http://www.bitcoin.org/), which are handled by encrypted transactions over a worldwide network of computers with no central servers.  Also safe from banks, lawyers, confiscation, inflation, greedy exes, etc.  The things to worry about are keyloggers, guns to your head, and the CIA corrupting the source code.  The currency is fiat, but it has to be in order to be transmitted over the intertubes.  Open source software keeps the number of bitcoins strictly capped.  As people wake up and smell the kleptocracy, bitcoins will become increasingly valuable.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 02:23 | 1135838 aphlaque_duck
aphlaque_duck's picture

Bitcoin is NOT fiat money. You're missing the whole point!  The coins are costly to produce or "mine", and their value is dictated by the market, not by law. 

Indeed, the fact that it is commodity money which can be transmitted electronically and in privacy, is what makes it such an amazing concept.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 04:02 | 1135901 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

Point taken, thanks!

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:56 | 1133649 slowx
slowx's picture

The federal government and the TBTF banks don't fight fair so why should we.  Since JP Morgan owns the Chase credit card business, why don't we get 20,000 people to get a Chase Credit Card and buy 100 ounces of silver on it.  2,000,000 ounces of silver unavailable to the Crimex and JP Morgan finances it for us.

Tyler, how many people visit this site a day?

 

 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:59 | 1133672 breezer1
breezer1's picture

+1000

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:29 | 1133830 velobabe
velobabe's picture

zerohedge@twitter, now has almost 23,000 followers. they are gaining a little under a 100 new followers a work day. twitter is kinda fun.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:59 | 1133687 sabra1
sabra1's picture

and... never pay off those cards. that'll fix 'em!

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:21 | 1133785 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Did that 2 years ago.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 19:34 | 1134887 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

yep, same here.  no is a very easy word to say to a debt collector on the phone!

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 19:52 | 1134951 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

nice avatar.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 21:01 | 1135188 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

thanks mick, one of my favorite coins, the ol' walking liberty half.  the avatar is from one of my coins i photgraphed before my digital camera crapped out.  too bad it resized so poorly.  btw your avatar looks great to me.  peace dollars are very nice too.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:29 | 1133842 DosZap
DosZap's picture

slowx

Just make sure you have no other Chase cards, or cards with high limits.

I tried that 2 weeks ago, and was approved for a $500.00 credit line.

They explained in the letter, that I already had more than sufficient credit lines available from their sister branch SLATE.

They were more interested in me moving balances to them.

Plus they stopped the 5% deal, and will allow you to receive 1% on your purchases, and will give you a 6mo, no interest on pmts.

I told them I never carry a balance period.

Then I was basically SOL, so I told them keep your card, I do not need a $500.00 pissy CC w/ that limit.

Not going to buy much silver w/that.

They were pissed when I said cancel my app, and don't bother, this is a one sided deal, FOR you.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:57 | 1133657 breezer1
breezer1's picture

the confiscation begins. give with one hand and take with the other.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:57 | 1133659 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

F**king Banana republic reaches new lows daily.

Please Lord, remove this cancerous USA from the planet, so we can live in peace from this evil... in god we trust.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:56 | 1133660 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Poverty_Law_Center


Finances

The SPLC has received criticism for excessive fundraising and disproportionate reserves. Starting in 1974 the SPLC utilized fundraising efforts to build up its endowment, stating that all its activities including litigation are supported by fundraising efforts, and it does not accept any fees or share of legal judgments awarded to clients it represents in court.[26][102] In 1994 the Montgomery Advertiser ran a series alleging the SPLC was financially mismanaged and employed misleading fundraising practices.[103][104] In response Joe Levin stated: "The Advertiser's lack of interest in the center's programs and its obsessive interest in the center's financial affairs and Mr. Dees' personal life makes it obvious to me that the Advertiser simply wants to smear the center and Mr. Dees."[105] The series was a finalist for but did not win a 1995 Pulitzer Prize in Explanatory Journalism.[106] In 1996 USA Today called the SPLC "the nation's richest civil rights organization", with $68 million in assets at the time.[107][108] In 1998, columnistAlexander Cockburn, from The Nation, wrote that SPLC had done little with its funds and used unjustified fear as a tactic to extract money.[109] Similarly in 2000, Harper's Magazine published an article by Ken Silverstein critical of the SPLC, noting the poor ratings from charity ranking organizations and stating that it spent twice as much money on fundraising as it did on legal services.[110] In 2007 Silverstein wrote a follow-up saying that the SPLC had only been more successful in fundraising since the year 2000 and that its endowment had grown exponentially, but the imbalance between monies spent on legal services and fundraising was still present.[111]

SPLC stated that during 2008 it spent about 69% of total expenses on program services, and that at the end of 2008 the endowment stood at $156.2 million.[112] The SPLC's fundraising methods are somewhat unconventional and critics accuse it of leveraging fear to solicit donations, and say that top officials in the SPLC are paid very high salaries.[103] According to Charity Navigator, SPLC's 2008 outlays fell into the following categories: program expenses of 68.0%, administrative expenses of 14.3%, and fundraising expenses of 17.6%.[113] In October 2010 the SPLC reported its endowment at $216.2 million.[1]

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:02 | 1133691 HamyWanger
HamyWanger's picture

Honesty and probity are for Gentiles only. 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 16:43 | 1134259 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Zionist puke.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:36 | 1133891 DosZap
DosZap's picture

As I said, lying SCUM.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:56 | 1133661 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

Peter Schiff says it best in this clip...about 4 minutes in

 

 

http://peterschiffblog.blogspot.com/2011/04/video-market-update-us-economy-jobs.html
 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:56 | 1133662 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

I see a lot of these Liberty dollars for sale on ebay.   Soon enough those buyers will probably be getting some weird confiscation order.   

To my insurance agent: "Lost my silver in a boating accident along with all my guns"

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:19 | 1133772 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Boating accidents,,,,

!

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 19:39 | 1134904 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

agreed silverrhino, i see them command a 67 to 80+ bid in fiat on ol' ebay.  i had to wonder too when the auction buyers get a surprise visit since what you bought on ebay is public record for 90 days on your feedback file.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:59 | 1133664 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

..., we wonder just how much more physical in the form silver-tipped "bringer of peace" missiles will be used up in the upcoming Operation Chocolate Dawn about to break out and restore human rights in Ivory Coast.

+10 Côte D'Or connoisseur bars.  http://www.belgiumschocolatesource.com/Brands.aspx 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:01 | 1133674 tmosley
tmosley's picture

So does this mean Singapore dollars are illegal in the US now, as they also contain the word "dollar" and have a "$" on them?

This is asinine.  Those jurors should be stripped of their citizenship for their treachery, not to mention the prosecutors, judge, and anyone else involved in this farce.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:59 | 1133685 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Next up: owning any asset which protects against inflation is considered terrorism, and punishable with 40,000 years in jail.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 19:24 | 1134863 BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

I'm a terrorist then - I could never figure out how to eat an iPad - my inflation hedge is stored in 5 gallon buckets with oxygen absorbers.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:12 | 1133746 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

American political prisoners must be quickly replaced!

Martin Armstrong was released so some other innocent American must replace him.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:28 | 1133832 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Logical.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:40 | 1133916 DosZap
DosZap's picture

The Jurors are sheeple, the Judge is the problem, find the closing statement she made.The jury had no clue they could declare the law, a BAD Law, and set him free.

Sickening.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 18:32 | 1134702 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

The right of jury nullification is never ever explained to a jury.  

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:57 | 1133675 Yardfarmer
Yardfarmer's picture

with equities losing more than 90% to Ag in the past decade, i can understand the Fed's panic  attempt to cover.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 18:54 | 1134764 long juan silver
long juan silver's picture

What ag are you refering to?

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 21:31 | 1135290 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Disambiguation:  Ag-47, feel better now?

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:58 | 1133678 tickhound
tickhound's picture

"Cash for Gold" (the modern day gold confiscation) takes a more serious turn...

 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:58 | 1133679 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

His mistake was calling them dollars. He could have beat the rap. Unless he was intentionally trying to make some kind of martyrdom move, it was a bad decision. I understand the desire to trade outside of the fiat fed notes, but as they say, bad money drives out good. We need to let the current dollar regime collapse before I would do anything but hold precious metals for long term value.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:24 | 1133802 Antarctico
Antarctico's picture

His mistake was calling them dollars.

For anyone else tempted to mint their own alternative money, my suggetion is to call them Quatloos.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:31 | 1133846 knukles
knukles's picture

"Caaalllll lemm' Quaaludezzzz  zI meeeen ugmblfxt." says Bill the Cat.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 16:27 | 1134171 Antarctico
Antarctico's picture

Bill The Cat for president!

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:27 | 1133822 Clampit
Clampit's picture

Sorta like Robert Kahre's mistake-du-Jour was immediately exchanging the coins for cash? Otherwise all of this would go totally unchallenged.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 17:04 | 1134386 indio007
indio007's picture

Kahre's mistake was claiming the face value for tax purposes then claiming the market value to get credit etc...

 

He tried to have it both ways.

If your going to accept it at face value , you need to spend it at face value.

 

 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 17:29 | 1134501 Clampit
Clampit's picture

I don't think he accepted it at face value, that was up to the individual employees. I'll pay you a "dollar" per hour ... of course the wink-wink-nudge was deafening. Much like Mozillo's origination centers. (And I happen to know for fact that the creative income "statements" originated with loan officers ... a friend was protecting himself on a Sillycon valley condo.)

Not all laws are created equal.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 18:12 | 1134581 Clampit
Clampit's picture

And to save time, I'll answer the obvious reply; that he purchased the coins at melt valve. They were purchased at a business that markets US currency. What's a four letter word for currency retailer?

Funny thing, the older coins have a much higher storage fee.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 16:24 | 1134163 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Oh shit, next they'll be after my Canadian silver maples, because they say 5 dollars right on them. After that it will be the gold maples that say 50 dollars. And I think I had one of their green twenty dollar bills in my wallet when I crossed back after spending time in Toronto.

That's it, time to declare war on Canada, those fucking terrorists trying to undermine the USD by having the CAD buy more stuff that the USD.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 16:32 | 1134200 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

They only say 5 dollars because that's how much it costs to dig out of the ground!

 

/sarc

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:00 | 1133680 tek77blu
tek77blu's picture

Everything they do to supress, force, keep under duress(u get the picture) will ultimately force gold, silver, and the people's rage far, far higher than would otherwise occur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk3z-JUKp3k

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:00 | 1133681 HamyWanger
HamyWanger's picture

It's a known fact that anti-Federal Reserve, pro-capitalism, bigot libertarians are anti-Semites and paranoid. 

It's a pity, though, that such nefarious hate speech against the FED is not yet punished in the US. 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:03 | 1133697 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

You're signaling to the government that you'd make a good commandant for the concentration camp?

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:07 | 1133714 HamyWanger
HamyWanger's picture

I know the idea may sound a bit far-fetched, but I've always advocated the idea of placing fringe groups such as the so-called 'libertarians' in reeducation camps. 

It's not their fault if they have a deranged and paranoid opinion about economics ; the State must act to counter the propaganda they received from their redneck parents at such an early age. 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:16 | 1133753 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Please do not junk the trolls - It only brings attention to their comments.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:28 | 1133826 umop episdn
umop episdn's picture

Screw that noise. Tyler giveth us the junk button for a reason, as inscrutable as that may appear to you.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:34 | 1133865 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Why engage?

Why draw attention to the idiot?

Simply ignore!

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:58 | 1133991 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

An 'ignore' button would be really nice.

Click on ignore and never see another post from the offender.

Enough ignores and the troll becomes ineffective.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:21 | 1133769 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Communist Scum ..... The godfather of Modern Libertarianism in the USA was a Wacko 

 

 

Murray Newton Rothbard (March 2, 1926 – January 7, 1995) was an American individualist anarchist,[1] author, and economist of the Austrian School who helped define modernlibertarianism and popularized a form of free-market anarchism he termed "anarcho-capitalism".[2][3] Rothbard wrote over twenty books and is considered a centrally important figure in the American libertarian movement.[4]

Building on the Austrian School's concept of spontaneous order, support for a free market in money production and condemnation of central planning,[5] Rothbard advocated abolition ofcoercive government control of society and the economy. He considered the monopoly force of government the greatest danger to liberty and the long-term well-being of the populace, labeling the State as nothing but a "gang of thieves writ large"—the locus of the most immoral, grasping and unscrupulous individuals in any society.[6][7][8][9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Rothbard

 

Video of this goof' 1989

Murray N. Rothbard: Libertarianism

 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:33 | 1133871 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Murray Rothbard kicks arse. Ony my way through "Conceived in Liberty", though it's a "Tragedy & Hope" sized work...

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:53 | 1133971 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Marxism of the Right 

Free spirits, the ambitious, ex-socialists, drug users, and sexual eccentrics often find an attractive political philosophy in libertarianism, the idea that individual freedom should be the sole rule of ethics and government. Libertarianism offers its believers a clear conscience to do things society presently restrains, like make more money, have more sex, or take more drugs. It promises a consistent formula for ethics, a rigorous framework for policy analysis, a foundation in American history, and the application of capitalist efficiencies to the whole of society. But while it contains substantial grains of truth, as a whole it is a seductive mistake.

There are many varieties of libertarianism, from natural-law libertarianism (the least crazy) to anarcho-capitalism (the most), and some varieties avoid some of the criticisms below. But many are still subject to most of them, and some of the more successful varieties—I recently heard a respected pundit insist that classical liberalism is libertarianism—enter a gray area where it is not really clear that they are libertarians at all. But because 95 percent of the libertarianism one encounters at cocktail parties, on editorial pages, and on Capitol Hill is a kind of commonplace “street” libertarianism, I decline to allow libertarians the sophistical trick of using a vulgar libertarianism to agitate for what they want by defending a refined version of their doctrine when challenged philosophically. We’ve seen Marxists pull that before.

This is no surprise, as libertarianism is basically the Marxism of the Right. If Marxism is the delusion that one can run society purely on altruism and collectivism, then libertarianism is the mirror-image delusion that one can run it purely on selfishness and individualism. Society in fact requires both individualism and collectivism, both selfishness and altruism, to function. Like Marxism, libertarianism offers the fraudulent intellectual security of a complete a priori account of the political good without the effort of empirical investigation. Like Marxism, it aspires, overtly or covertly, to reduce social life to economics. And like Marxism, it has its historical myths and a genius for making its followers feel like an elect unbound by the moral rules of their society.

The most fundamental problem with libertarianism is very simple: freedom, though a good thing, is simply not the only good thing in life. Simple physical security, which even a prisoner can possess, is not freedom, but one cannot live without it. Prosperity is connected to freedom, in that it makes us free to consume, but it is not the same thing, in that one can be rich but as unfree as a Victorian tycoon’s wife. A family is in fact one of the least free things imaginable, as the emotional satisfactions of it derive from relations that we are either born into without choice or, once they are chosen, entail obligations that we cannot walk away from with ease or justice. But security, prosperity, and family are in fact the bulk of happiness for most real people and the principal issues that concern governments.

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2005/mar/14/00017/

 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:56 | 1133979 tmosley
tmosley's picture

lol, you think Libertarianism is "right".

Butthurt faggots can't think for themselves, and should stick to delivering lawn furniture to corrupt Chicago politicians.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:59 | 1133981 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Free spirits, the ambitious, ex-socialists, drug users, and sexual eccentrics often find an attractive political philosophy in libertarianism,

God damn, that is the single most stupid thing I have ever read. Well done for locating it.

If you can't tell how obviously biased that is, then I genuinely feel sorry for you.

Lazy fuckwits, untalented wankers, welfare moms, megalomanical midgets, and egocentric diabetics often find an attractive political philosophy in socialism.

See how that works?

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 16:02 | 1134005 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Libertarianism = Anarchy. Book it.

It sprang forth from this vile pool of deceit .....

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 16:04 | 1134029 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Vile pool of deceit? Is that a joke, or are you seriously that deluded you can't tell both Democrats and Republicans are lying to you?

I think you should spend more time watching CNBC. I think you'd like it.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 16:14 | 1134085 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

What's the fucking situation in the U.K.?

 

Every country has issues with corruption always have, always will ... Or can you point out Utopia on a map for me. 

 

But the anarchy libertarianism would bring with it is o.k. ? Look at the criminals throughout world history in every land, and you just want to hand them the keys , madness. The corrupt scum would have a field day in your open , hands off, everything goes society.

 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 16:21 | 1134138 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

You really think it was socialism which built the UK? Or America? No, what built both were ideologies a lot closer to libertarianism than whatever you seem to subscribe to.

"Every country has issues with corruption" - wow, so you are ok with it WHEN IT'S GOOD, AMERICAN, SYSTEMIC CORRUPTION, blasted to you on TV, but heaven forbid it's the kind of corruption which built the country.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 17:22 | 1134464 brokenspoke
brokenspoke's picture

There is one in Texas SW of San Antonio.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 18:34 | 1134720 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

They already have the key's, and you agreed with giving them away.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 19:52 | 1134949 Ganja Jane
Ganja Jane's picture
anarchist –noun 1.
a person who advocates or believes in anarchy or anarchism. 2.
a person who seeks to overturn by violence all constituted forms and institutions of society and government, with no purpose of establishing any other system of order in the place of that destroyed. 3.
a person who promotes disorder or excites revolt against any established rule, law, or custom. libertarian –noun
1.
a person who advocates liberty,  especially with regard to thought or conduct. 2.
a person who maintains the doctrine of free will (distinguished from necesstarian). –adjective
3.
advocating liberty  or conforming to principles of liberty. 4.
maintaining the doctrine of free will. Why I feel need to punish myself by trying to educate the willfully ignorant is beyond me. I guess I am just a hard-core masochist.
Mon, 04/04/2011 - 16:30 | 1134190 SRV - ES339
SRV - ES339's picture

Right you are... but you forgot to mention the Libertarian (Tea Party) movement is the biggest lie of all... funded by the Koch brother crowd, and all the corporate money required to seed the anarchy, and enable the complete compromise of democracy (thanks to their loyal Supreme Court majority).

But hey, look at the bright side... you are an integral component of the master plan... 'useful idiots' are the foundation.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 16:39 | 1134237 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

I love when people just make shit up, and assume what I stand for.

Please point out exactly where I said I sided with the Tea Party? Really, please do. I would love to see that, as I must have been unimaginably drunk at the time.

The Tea Party is a fucking joke. Can't even agree on a balanced budget. Won't cut entitlement spending.

But hey, keep posting shit you make up, as it frankly tells posters a lot more about you than me.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 18:36 | 1134725 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

The Tea Party and Libertarian Party are not connected in any way.

We never had Democracy, so your initial premise is off-base.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 19:20 | 1134828 Ganja Jane
Ganja Jane's picture

True BUT there are libertarians (whom I kept in contact with here in NYS during gubernatorial-I petitioned for Green Party Candidates) who also participate in Tea Party events. I do need to point out that there are different tea parties and the one I deal with are level headed people who don't buy into the false political duality; That said, there are 'the other ones' who think I am going to steal their gun and give it to a Mexican to kill their God.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:39 | 1133897 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Your picture is in the dictionary next to the word "butthurt".

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 21:24 | 1135257 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

You are a pimp, and a shill. 

Whatever they pay you for doing what you do here is not worth the price of your soul.

 

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 00:14 | 1135670 GreenSideUp
GreenSideUp's picture

Let's see if I get this right: those of us who philosophically believe in anarchism are wacko because we do not need some goobermint goon telling us what to do 24/7/365.

Makes plenty sense to me! 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:46 | 1133946 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Hey asswipe, you would have done well in Nazi Germany.

As of today, we all have the right to believe as we wish, and speak out for our beliefs.

Over a million Americans have died for your right to your opinion, and THEIRS.

Guess you don't believe in the Const, or the Amendments, or the BORS.

 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:59 | 1133994 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

I love America just the way it is ....

 

With this many synonyms in common, it's fair to say "libertarian" and "anarchic" are synonyms also. The only difference seems to be that anarchists oppose political authority and libertarians oppose authority, period.

No doubt Roget's was compiled before Ayn Rand's books came out and the Libertarian Party debuted. Since then libertarianism has become a political position as well as a philosophical one. We can characterize the position in a few words: unruly, ungoverned, and unchecked.

In other words, anarchy. The law of the jungle. Survival of the fittest.

 

http://www.bluecorncomics.com/libertrn.htm

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 16:27 | 1134169 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

DosZap did not just say that, if he said it above you should specifically refer to where he did.

I like your avatar though...

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 16:40 | 1134249 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

I love america just the way it is, good and the bad ... Nothing is perfect.

It's funny though, one of my favorite stocks is 'MPEL' an ADR from China. Wish I had more money I could dump on that stock, its a long term keeper .... 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 19:03 | 1134797 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

America is best as she is, threatening to collapse at any moment due to termite-infected wooden house-like systemic corruption.

And now you're touting Chinese ADRs? Isn't one collapsing like every five minutes these days?

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 21:26 | 1135268 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

I love America the way it will be, when it remembers what it always needed, and wanted, to be.

That time is coming soon.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 17:15 | 1134434 tmosley
tmosley's picture

As opposed to the current "America" you love so well, where it's survival of the zombiest?

Clearly butthurt beyond all degree of rational thought Spalding no longer lashes out at owners of gold and silver, because he has been proven stupid too many times to count.  Now, he just insults freedom itself.

This is why our home delivery shoeshine boy here doesn't even bother to keep a shinebox.  He just licks clean the boots of any politician that orders a dinette set from his "pal", dogshit and all.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 18:56 | 1134781 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

"Survival of the fittest."...well, right now we appear to be working on survival of the unfit...that might not be a long term solution.....

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 18:18 | 1134667 Hicham
Hicham's picture

Junkers...he is clearly being sarcastic.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 10:41 | 1136693 Ganja Jane
Ganja Jane's picture

I find it hard to believe he is unaware of the /src tag; given the amount of trolls visiting lately, one cannot assume.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:01 | 1133688 Spaceman Spiff
Spaceman Spiff's picture

"He's playing on a core idea of the radical right, that evil bankers in the Federal Reserve are ripping you off by controlling the money supply," said Mark Potok, spokesman for the group.

 

Let the demonization of those believing in a basic fact begin.   There seems to be a mass delusion by lefty economists that it is ok to spread misinformation and be intellectually dishonest.

 


Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:01 | 1133690 Badabing
Badabing's picture

"He's playing on a core idea of the radical right, that evil bankers in the Federal Reserve are ripping you off by controlling the money supply,"

Idea?

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:15 | 1133759 pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

radical???

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 20:10 | 1135019 edotabin
edotabin's picture

Right?

 

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 10:41 | 1136682 Ganja Jane
Ganja Jane's picture

Ripping you off by [inflating] the money supply?

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:02 | 1133694 What_Me_Worry
What_Me_Worry's picture

So eventually all the Fed has to do is declare silver eagles to be counterfeits and all will be well.  Throw in gold eagles while they are at it.

It is ironic that they spend all this time and energy declaring a form of money explicitly stated in our constitution to be counterfeit while FRNs are inherently counterfeit to actual US dollars.  The USA can fix its fixed debt problem any time they want by declaring all FRNs to be counterfeits and therefore null and void.

At least we live in interesting times.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:19 | 1133768 pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

it's not money..it's a silver round, but as stated by a previous poster his mistake was calling it a dollar and either he is setting himself up tp rpove a point and become a matyr or didn't know any better.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 10:37 | 1136669 Ganja Jane
Ganja Jane's picture

Well, do we need to do something about Canada, Australia, Singapore or Hong Kong putting 'dollars' into circulation? Didn't realize there was copyright and/or trademark on the word 'dollar.'

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:00 | 1133695 Running on Empty
Running on Empty's picture

Seriously Tyler shit like this is below you man. I know you want to pump up the Silver Gold bullshit all the time but really WTF.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:02 | 1133703 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

Which part exactly?

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:15 | 1133751 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Silver and gold are clearly a conspiracy theory.  Everyone knows they don't exist.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:23 | 1133811 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Ha ha!

+ $1430!

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:34 | 1133882 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

They don't in Fort Knox at least.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 16:07 | 1134040 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Ya but the can use the unlimited dollars to buy the limited silver and gold. The only problem is doing so at market value makes them look bad after everyone has lost complete faith in the dollar.

One look at the M2 chart shows a whole bunch of debt is getting retired into massively printed dollars. And it's been running for a while.

There is going to be massive tech failures over the next few months. We'll just have to see how that affects things. Doesn't do much good to be a god for TSA when 5 foot holes are ripping open in cabins.

 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 21:31 | 1135294 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

There's plenty of gold in Fort Knox.

It's all in the form of thousands and thousands of little gold PostIt Notes(tm) that say "I am 100 ounces of gold." 

And they're all signed by Bob Rubin and whatever other animals came after him.

 

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 10:31 | 1136641 Ganja Jane
Ganja Jane's picture

Com'on, the tungsten is gold plated!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!