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Feds Try To Confiscate $7 Million In Silver Liberty Dollars
Following the recent conviction of Bernard von NotHaus for his "domestic terrorism", "dollar counterfeiting" Liberty Dollar operation (for which he faces up to 25 years in jail and a $750,000 fine), the Feds are now scrambling to recover each and every ounce of physical silver available as part of the fallout. Today, for example, AP reports that Federal prosecutors tried to confiscate NotHaus' hoard of silver "Liberty Dollars" worth about $7 million. Whether or not this 181,000 ounces of "fungible" physical silver will be enough to satisfy Comex silver deliveries by Federal authorities (read a key tri-party repo clearer bank), remains to be seen.
From AP:
"The prosecutors successfully painted Mr. von NotHaus in a false light and now the U.S. Attorney responsible for the prosecution is painting the case in a false light, saying that it establishes that private voluntary barter currency is illegal," Michel wrote.
The trial was scheduled to resume Monday in Statesville. The case involves more than five tons of Liberty Dollars and precious metals seized from a warehouse, which the government wants to take by forfeiture, according to federal prosecutors and Michel.
Federal prosecutors successfully argued that von NotHaus was, in fact, trying to pass off the silver coins as U.S. currency. Coming in denominations of 5, 10, 20, and 50, the Liberty Dollars also featured a dollar sign, the word "dollar" and the motto "Trust in God," similar to the "In God We Trust" that appears on U.S. coins. "Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism," U.S. Attorney Anne Tompkins said in a statement after von NotHaus was convicted.
The concerns raised by von NotHaus and his group are finding resonance among some state lawmakers, too. About a dozen states have legislation that would allow them to produce their own currency backed by gold or silver in the event of hyperinflation striking the U.S. dollar. North and South Carolina are among those states.
Not everyone believes in the purity of von NotHaus' motives: "NotHaus' group has been followed for years by the Southern Poverty Law
Center, a group that tracks political extremism. Long before the
government began its investigation into von NotHaus, the group was
raising concerns about the popularity of Liberty Dollars among fringe
groups on the far right."
"He's playing on a core idea of the radical right, that evil bankers in the Federal Reserve are ripping you off by controlling the money supply," said Mark Potok, spokesman for the group.
Um, is this actually subject to debate?
In the meantime, we wonder just how much more physical in the form silver-tipped "bringer of peace" missiles will be used up in the upcoming Operation Chocolate Dawn about to break out and restore human rights in Ivory Coast.
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I only bought mine because I thought there was chocolate inside. I put adhesive fuzzy pads on them and now they work as coasters.
+1 LOL
Res publica mortuus est, vivat imperium
Nos morituri te salutemus!
Iuventes stultorum magister.
Oh! and .. Fed delenda est.
+ 38.65 !!
Did someone forget the /src tag?
Pfft, show me by some miracle that gold or silver exist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnuZ062im9c
right into the sparkling new vault of JPM I guess
He Tyler, he must be meaning the WTF part of it
You would think that the "Southern Poverty Law Center" would track, if anything, POVERTY!
The Fed is a poverty maker.
Look, of all the groups out there, they're the most honest. "The Southern POVERTY Law Center". They're making more poor people every day.
Contrast that to the Democrats, who are for the poor people! Of course they are! They're making more people poor every day! They're growing their constiuitency, as any good political party is apt to do.
They track wild eyed anti-semites, anti-fed lunatics, rabid libertarians, anti-foriegn intervention radicals and soccer mom terrorists. Hands up if your a target !
how can this possibly end badly? LOL!!!!
"Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism," U.S. Attorney Anne Tompkins said in a statement after von NotHaus was convicted.
To use real money (gold or silver) is an act of terrorism?
Pretty interesting that this came out the week after that guy got convicted:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704050204576218970652119898.html
Evidently, new rules trump the constitution and the amendment process. So undermining the constitution is ok, but coining silver is an act that undermines the very foundation of this country.
"If it benefits the big banks, it's legal."
That's really all there is to it. So when a new law is discussed, that's all you have to consider.
Your LE is being taught to watch people like US, by the DHS to be on the Suspicious list for being potentally Domestic Terrorists.
If you believe in Gold or Silver over the system of FRN's, you are on the list.
Yes.
http://www.survivalblog.com/2011/03/beware_of_homeland_security_tr.html
if you own fake silver thats funny.
We need a secret Zero Hedge signal to identify ourselves with when we bump into each other in the camps.
....no need, the real members here have tasteful, yet subtle, 'zh' neck tats...
The SPLC today is nothing more than an FBI adjunct. All non-statist thought is to be attacked as extremism and racism.
Not everyone believes in the purity of the Southern Poverty Law Center's motives either.
"The Anti-Defamation League (ADL), along with the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), is already heavily involved in Homeland Security's locally based 'fusion centres, 'which collect personal data for intelligence databases that synchronise national intelligence collection with local police. ADL and SPLC have a record of illegally spying on American citizens and providing false information to law enforcement officials."
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Southern_Poverty_Law_Center
+LMAO good to know my shinies are in a safe place, heheheh!
APMEX to be charged with terrorism in 3... 2... 1...
Oooo, National Treasure III anyone?
It would be funny if, after seizing all of the coins, they discover it was all tungsten.
LOL
A ponzi on the ponziers.
(Better than wishing a green fuzzy scourge upon thier testees.)
Works out good for everyone. 181,000 oz for The U.S. Mint to keep the Eagle program going and to help the COMEX banking cartel that is desperately short. God has a plan for everything. That's why this country is so great. It's a sign from God that all this silver just fell in their lap. I'm so thankful I live in a righteous moral and honest nation like the USA.
yes gonzo, i read the article and figured one of two things. a) jpmorgue gets to cover their shorts or b) the us mint can suddenly have a supply of the sorely needed silver blanks to re-start the silver eagle program. if an option "c" turns up happening, there are even greater forces at work than the banks or the mint!
<sarc>
i am sooooo glad i hid my silver under the fuk-u-she-ma plants in japan. chances of having irradiated silver confiscated seems low, even for the gubberment!
</sarc>
Boy the feds were on that fast.. But the on going doj investigation into jpm keeps moving right along..
Need a larger budget to be able to handle JPM.
The same argument can be said for the federal reserve note-- time to jail Satanke.
Let's see . . . . the Constitution is 'just a goddam piece of paper', mortgage deeds are anachronistic, trivial relics from a pre-digital age, lies are truth, war is peace, black is white and up is down, BUT, US currency shall not be debased or counterfeited in any way, shape or form. Unless you're the Ben Bernank.
Fuck.
Me.
Runnin.
isn't corporate legalese great? NOT!
There is an example of private coinage that was in general usage during the California gold rush. During the boom years there was not enough currency to facilitate trade so private mints came into being to satisfy demand for money. The coins were frequently denominated as a dollar equivalent and resembled official currency in other ways as well with images of Lady Liberty, etc. Nobody considered it an act of terrorism then.
http://rarecoins.org/RCU-california-gold.htm
There is actually an old case decided about private currency out of Massachusetts. The coin was called "Moffatt's Issue". It was held in Chapman V. Cole 12 Gray (Mass) 141, 71 Am.Dec. 739 that private coins are not money and the law governing chattel applies.
Reference please. I'm having no luck with a google search for this. I have to ask, settled by whom? In a state court?
http://books.google.com/books?id=QbBJAAAAYAAJ&dq=%22Chapman%20V.%20Cole%...
decided by Massachusetts Supreme Court
Thanks. In this instance the court ruled that a mistaken valuation of the coin did not entitle the former owner to the difference in value after the mistake was discovered and the coin had passed to a third party, holding the third party harmless for the additional value. The court reasoned that it was not money in the strictest sense of the word since it wa not issued by the Federal mint while at the same time acknowledging that it was money in California. There are plenty of examples of private mints producing coinage that was used and accepted as legal tender when coinage was not available in sufficient quantities for trade. During the early years Spanish was recognized as money as well (pieces of eight).
..."Anything passing San Francisco, even the 49er’s laundry returning from the Sandwich Islands, became subject to inspection and duty at the San Francisco Customs House. Duty could only be paid in coins, not in dust or ingots. State and city taxes ($25 per foreign-born miner, $5 poll tax, 1% state property tax, 2% city property tax) also would be paid in cash. The California Gold issues were accepted as legal tender (though not considered US coins) between 1850 to 1852..."
http://oslhp.net/2009/node/91
www.libertydollar.org "site removed due to court order."
should read - "site removed due to federal reserve embarrassment."
Stodgy arrogant pompous fools do sometimes get what is coming to them. Just because the FED makes counterfeit money doesn't mean everybody should be allowed to do it. In 2000 when Ag was $5 something an OZ somebody tried to pass one of of Nothaus' $10 coins off on me as US Dollars. Knowing that the US mint never minted Silver coinage above a one dollar denomination I passed. I also informed the perpetrator that I was a numismatist and that I knew the coinage wasn't US coinage. That person appeared happy to walk away without me calling the police. If that same situation were to occur now with Silver being over $38/oz i wouldn't be so picky about it again. A jury deliberated after hearing the case for over 2 hours. 12 people who were subjected to all of the evidence and facts came to the conclusion Nothaus was guilty. Too bad. Just because Nothaus has money doesn't exclude him from a subset of idiots who don't know the law.
Does anyone else find any sense of irony in these silver coins being called "Liberty Dollars"? What a bizarro world!
...and that the 'counterfeit' is worth more than the real thing???????
The simple solution to this is to simply accept trade in silver on all EBAY & Craiglist transactions. This puts to rest discussion of counterfeiting since you can accept any item for barter be it a musical instrument, dvd collection or precious metals. Simply put the discussion to bed by not having it resemble minted U.S. coins.
Then we will see the attempts at confiscation and the next groundless excuse.
busted by suits with phds in
.
they hate our freedom
I am assuming that these "Liberty Dollars" are the same ones that I bought a bunch of back in 2006?
The ones I have Have a proof-finish on them...have a lady liberty head on the front...and say USA and TRUST IN GOD.
On the Reverse...they say "Liberty Dollar" m have a torch and say the weight, purity and face value -
I bought a bunch of these back in 06. 1/4 ounce, 1/2 ounce an 1 ounce rounds....
Does that mean I contributed to a crime?
OH SHIT..I AM SCARED NOW!
They're fucking coming for ya - RUN!
Thought crimes are evident with public asset #4,518,315,617.
As your attorney ad litem, you are safe. You cannot be charged a crime without intent. You can't be held legal for something you didn't know about. The dude selling this stuff on the other hand, may need Johnnie Cochran to pull a magic trick.
Now take my fee, and buy some more real silver eagles with it for yourself. Better yet, take the fake ones you have and take them to a flea market somewhere in F**kville, USA where hillbillies live who don't know any better and trade them in for cash, let JP Morgan have them. lol
In my years of coin collecting I have somehow managed to get stuck with three of Nothaus' Silver Liberty coins. I'll use them for making colloidal Silver someday if I need to.
I don't know suckerfish, they may become more valuable now as collectors items....they are at least worth their silver content. Still going for around $45.00 or so on ebay.
Really now? You would be surprised to find out what is sold as bullion when all of the local dealers know that all you are interested in is bullion. Here in Portland Oregon when they become available on the market they sell for spot.
I ordered $200 worth of the Ron Paul dollars from these guys and they were within days of being shipped when the Feds scooped them up. I want either my coins or FRNs back.....most preferably the former.
Why? The fake coins are worth more than the FRN's.
http://www.businessinsider.com/jesse-ventura-ron-paul-michele-bachmann-6...
I'm so glad that the SPLC is looking out for our best interests. Who cares if they are just a shill for the politically correct NWO. I find their motives genuine and doubleplusgood.
The NWO is politically correct? Explain, please.
I wonder if confiscation of the silver was impetus for "enforcing the law".
Hmmm...
Is this like the DEA going after drug dealers because they have a lot of cash and boats and expensive houses to confiscate?
Gee, I wonder...
Cold Dead Hands comes to mind!
Good 'ol W Bush was right; The terrorists do hate your freedoms... but he was talking about the wrong terrorists.
...nicely put....we are only to have the freedoms which those in government (who know what is best for us) deem as safe and appropriate. Our government is castrating us with its rules and regulations as it operates only for the benfit of several special interest groups...
For those of you in Gold and Silver, myself included, be careful, these scumbags change the rules at the drop of a hat and will have no problem trying to confiscate any and all. Hide it, hoard it, bury it under your house, but do not keep it in a vault, deposit box, closet, or anywhere they can get to it.
Have weapon in hand when they come knocking for your stash.
Agreed.
Right now there is a total and complete breakdown of ethics and law. The criminals run the system and we need to be ready for anything.
Indeed. Any confiscation would STOP right away after a few fascist thugs were shot trying to steal our precious metals. They would too scared of the 80,000,000 gun owners...
The good tar heel will be known in these States United as the Thom Paine of the precious. Common sense should have been used on striking the precious with purity and weight only; these are the only rights of man.
DHS probably monitors this site.
Probably? Christ, if I were them I'd be a junkie on this site. Of course it has to be hard on the agents being explosed to so many red pills. I bet DHS has a lot of turnover or has agents that are extremely good at cognitive dissonance.
What? Cognitive Dissonance is DHS?! ;)
And?
A GSR of 37.2 be intolerable. Parity
How will the welfare state function with real money?
How will the international banking cartel function with real money?
How will the military function in its current form with real money?
The answer to those questions is the same.
The critics of real money will usually be supportive (or a beneficiary) of a) the welfare state b) the military industrial complex or c) both.
The "practicality" of real money is ridiculous, let there be choice, and then let's see what is practical. What's practical will be defined by what the people would rather use.
Flush out the parasites 2011-2012
So what will become of the bitcoin terrorists?
I used to think Kafka represented what is going on.
Now I would have to say Alice in Wonderland.
We are not in Kansas anymore Dorothy.
Follow the yellow brick road:
http://prosperityuk.com/2001/01/a-wonderful-wizard-of-oz-a-monetary-reform-parable/
BEYOND STAGGERING
The idea that the Fed Prosecutors, who are illegally allowing the Federal Reserve, a group of Privately Owned Jewish Banks, with many of the Owners dual-citizens to Coin the U.S. Dollar, IN COMPLETE CONTRAVENTION OF THE U.S. CONSTITUTION,....and then,....and then, to prosecute this guy, is so far beyond belief, credibility, and involves TREACHERY and HIPOCRACY to the billionth power, that if ever there was a reason for (as Jeff Bridges says in True Grit, "fileting the souls of their feet and then rubbing hot pepper in there") before hanging, I don't know what is.
Perhaps rather than waiting for the Federation -
to come to our doorsteps and take all -
we should go to it - and end its miserable life...?
sounds like a plan to me....
Advice and consent, don't ya know. Zimbabwe Ben has Congressional permission to mint money, unlike that German con man.......and Ben's currency is light and can conveniently be folded in your wallet, unlike those heavy, clunky coins.
I think it's obvious this guy had a shit bag sell out lawyer. He should have easily been able to prove he did not intend (men rea) for the coins to mpass as current US coinage. His lawyer probably told him not to testify. Unrebutted facts are proof. So you probably have a one sided record that is undisputed , factually peaking that is.
That's what I thought; Shite, Peter Schiff demonstrated that clearly ....
Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XWAZfAOwHk
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704425804576220383673608952.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
the friggin inmates keep running the asyllum!!
curious if the silver will be returned...as an eagle :) it should be..in a SANE, JUST society
Does anyone know the actual marginal cost (in present day US$ or a fraction thereof) to print a $1 bill?
At my last knowledge, three cents; to wit, where'd the other $.97 go?
Not sure about the cost to print a dollar bill, but I think you can get a sheet of hundreds for about 25 North Korean Won.
$2.1990627947 is the total melt value for the 1942-1945 silver nickel on April 04, 2011.
Wait a minute, so only the extreme right has people that believe the Bank's are acting in this manner? So what was all of that hubris about the SEIU guy conspiring to bring down JP Morgan?
I laughed at the 'extreme right' thing as well. Damn Presstitutes, propagating the false political duality of left vs right.
I act in this manner and I am registered Green Party, Volunteered at a Nader Event and photographed him, and I am going to a NYS libertarian convention on the 30th of this month.
I buy copper and silver and fully support the Crash JP Morgan Campaign.
and you burn hella doobies all the while.
Imma tokin' n'a stackin'; they be hatin'.
Standard & Poor’s chief investment strategist Sam Stovall
http://blogs.forbes.com/steveschaefer/2011/04/04/why-gold-isnt-overvalue...
Gold, Silver Rise as Inflation Protectionhttp://www.thestreet.com/story/11070759/1/gold-silver-rise-as-inflation-...
One needs a very dark sense of humor to survive what is going on....the Fed is destroying the value of the $$$ as fast as possible and here's some dingdong minting silver coins that are worth far mor than their face value....as if anyone with an IQ over 40 would confuse these silver pieces with the mock metal currncy now being circulated.
meanwhile commanding a high frn count on ebay no less!
reality is sure stranger than fiction anymore.
.......
No matter what you say, I refuse to be convinced that all this recent hubub over Disney Dollars is related to Liberty Dollars. Disney Dollars are real dollars and you have every right to use them in Disneyland and Disney World and probably even the Disney Store at the mall (do they still have those?).
I even read that a spokesperson for the Northern Elite SEC Enforcement Avoidance Center said "Mickey Mouse is playing on a core idea of soccer moms, that Disney shareholders would enhance Disney Dollar values by allowing their exclusive use within Disney parks," said Park Richtok, Alternative Currencies Enforcement Spokesperson.
Based on this research, Dave fully expects not only Mickey, but the entire Disney enterprise to be included in the upcoming revised list of "Sovereigns" and the Sovereign Movement as described by the Southern Poverty Law Center. There is still some debate in regard to both the sui juris and strawman traits of Mickey and his common law bride Minnie, but Walt's sovereignty is unquestioned although his sanity for building a themepark in the middle of a wasteland is still the subject of much debate. http://tradewithdave.com/?p=1652
Senator Dick Durbin explains the challenge when in the spirit of the Supreme Court's Citizen's United v. FEC decision, you are not only faced with treating corporations like people, your thrown into a cage match with your grandchildren's favorite cartoon character.
http://tradewithdave.com/?p=5883
jew bankers are the only people in america allowed to legally own gold and silver.
don't you know?
JPM Mafia looking for physical silver. Bernanke your are about to get your bluff called. Ben....you are truely an idiot.
Oh my God, the criminals. They're trying to confiscate the only thing we have left! Not our precious silver! Regardless, the power is still in our hands, the dollar is done fore.
www.forecastfortomorrow.com