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The Feds & UBS Reach a Squeal of a Deal
If you can't wash it- hide it, right? Generally lauded for it's banking secrecy laws- standards which have held for hundreds of years, the Swiss and their accounts have been the "hider of last resorts"- but according to the Associated Press, this may be about to change.
"The U.S. government and Swiss banking giant UBS AG have reached an agreement in a case seeking names of some 52,000 suspected American tax evaders with billions in secret Swiss accounts," but further details and stipulations will be released next week.
All sides, the US (read IRS) UBS and the Swiss government are "pleased" with Swiss Justice Minister Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf quoted as saying the agreement "is in the interests of both states."
I wonder what we're giving them in return for the names- the names of all the hack-Swiss watch counterfeiters off Canal Street? Don't laugh- that could work...
The IRS is in the belief that some 52,000 American clients are hiding upwards of $15 billion in secret accounts.
After months of negotiating, an agreement has been reached- but the details have yet to be signed in final form.
This isn't the first time UBS has been made to spill the beans- earlier this year, they paid a $780 million penalty and turned on some 300 Americans evading taxes- which ironically- and coincidentally- is not a Swiss banking crime! (Go figure... so much for "integrity?")
Since then- hundreds of other holders have come forward under an amnesty program which allows the tax sinners to pay taxes and penalties but evades the threat of jail.
This amnesty ends September 23, 2009.
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It would be interesting to see if any US political officals are revealed in the uncovering of "The Hiding".
I'd be doing the amnesty shuffle, if you know what I mean...
excellent observation
but, that could never happen. they are our elected/appointed public servants. geez, if that came out it would shatter any remaining unshattered illusions i have.
Exactly. I mean if a elected/appointed public servant was on that list we would no doubt want to block its release. I mean we wouldn't want that type of information getting out to the masses while we are still trying to convince them on health care now would we?? Certainly not...
Please report to Coping with Disbelief center.
I did as it was one of my few unshattered illusions. They turned me away. <Sigh!>
Why do you think the negotiations have taken so long? The PTB (Powers That Be) want to make sure that certain political figures [*cough*]Biden[*cough*] aren't on the lists that are released.
The amnesty shuffle is what the IRS is trying to force. The final agreement will be for UBS customers only. If you were stupid enough to bank offshore with an onshore bank your about to get spanked....
Other than that the Swiss gov will go to great lengths to insure privacy including raiding a Swiss based bank to take their records for safekeeping while another country investigates them.
Those "indirect bidders" don't seem to be too terribly price sensitive, now, do they? Especially if you compare them to the PD's
His message was being spread and gaining even more support...therefore he needed
to be censored.
Until we have guys like Black back as regulators nothing will
change. We just
good articles;
target="_blank">my newest bookmarked finance website
href="http://www.iamned.com" target="_blank">finance news & finance opinions
There are but they will never appear on a list that everyone can see (initially)
It will get leaked when enough people lose their jobs.
It wasn't enough for them to take our gold, and our freedoms, they now have to consolidate fiat paper back to the DC clown show to pay for more crap that no one wants.
Look on the bright side. It is kind of hard to build an aristocracy without a gold standard. Now we are all in it together on this great dilution experiment....
You are kidding yourself if you think we don't have an aristocracy already.
Oh Crap... Maybe that explains the $35 million Soros gave away... Trying to curry favor to get off the financial death list...
question: if you accept the amnesty, does that also prevent your name from being disclosed?
How long can you stay Bearish? Basically my whole life. Dont and wont invets in wall street criminal enterprise. why perpetuate criminal activity?
I have an (somewhat outlandish) theory about why they suddenly settled when the US seemed to hold all the right cards to win this one easily.
http://zeropointfield.wordpress.com/2009/07/02/imf-and-japans-bilateral-...
Makes sense to me. If the "smugglers" were real, it would not have made MSM.
Interesting. Thanks
I don't understand your theory. The IRS doesn't really hold many cards. If the IRS won against UBS AG, it would have serious collection issues. IRS could get a judgment against UBS AG. However, a Swiss court would probably refuse to let the IRS enforce the judgment in Switzerland. Furthermore, in most states a creditor of a shareholder in a corporation can't enforce its judgement against the corporation by pursuing the corporation, rather it has to enforce its judgment in the country/state where the share certificates are physically present. So, if the share certificates of the US subsidiaries were physically in Switzerland, the IRS would be sh*t out of luck. You think otherwise?
Also, I don't understand your theory re Japan. If you were saying Switzerland caved because Japanese aid didn't make it through, I could see that. But it seems like the US is getting the short end of the stick, so the US is the one caving.
If UBS failed to provide the accounts as demanded it would probably be fined in court. UBS AG's subsidiaries are fully owned by UBS and thus their property. I don't see why the IRS can't just put a tax lien on UBS property in the US.
So it probably wouldn't be necessary for the IRS to try to enforce or collect this judgment in Switzerland.In my view, it was UBS who had the short end.
As to Japan what I am saying is that the $140bln (bearer) Bonds may be in Switzerland which would make it one of the largest creditors of the US.
Hey moron, could you stop using a religious picture for your comments?
First, if UBS AG were fined in the US, the IRS could not seize assets of UBS AG's US subsidiaries because the IRS would be a creditor of the sub's shareholder, not the subsidiaries themselves. Second, if UBS AG were fined in the US, the IRS could try to collect by attaching property of UBS AG, including the stock of the US subs. In many states, a judgment creditor of a shareholder in a local corporation CANNOT attach stock of the corporation to satisfy the judgment unless the share certificates are phyically located inside the jurisdiction. So as I said, the IRS could be sh*t out of luck because UBS AG might hold its share certificates in the US subs outside the US and state law might not permit the IRS to attach the shares in the subs because they are located outside the US. And a non-US court might refuse to let the IRS attach the share certificates.
As for real pressure, the US could hurt Switzerland by pulling its swap lines and by persuading Eastern european countries to let their currencies fall and burn the Swiss banks on their loans to Eastern europe.
That the new global currency, aka oil, is trading over 73 today and rising, says it all.
Who believes that the Swiss were neutral during WW2 when everything surrounding them was trampled is a fool.
So much for the history of this "neutral" pristine Alpine nation and people.
The Fascists, the Communists, the Islamofascists, ordinary and not so ordinary thieves and crooks - elected - and not have deposited their fortunes in Swiss banks and offered the Swiss protection in return. The Swiss banking fees are the highest in the world for a reason. It's not about the safety of the banking system, its about the fact that nobody has ever touched anyone who held money in Swiss bank accounts... unless the heat was turned on and one thug wanted money from the other thug.
I really dont understand the tax issue here. You can place your monies anywhere in the world. Thats legal. so your stock portfolio in UBS is crushed by 50%; what will you tax? 0? Your interest rate is 0% in Swiss; so 40% of 0% is...0? I dont believe there will be this magical money that the Obamas believe exists. I guarantee you, the Swiss/EU will first tax any monies repatriated before the Obamas get their hands on these monies. Then the Frans/Euros will have to be converted back to $'s which will also represent losses in many time frames. Furthermore, UBS will have allocated these monies to many different financial institutions in swiss. Even different UBS branches are considered separate entities; so, when you say UBS it means nothing. You must specify UBS 2021 Friedrichstrase or UBS 3235 bahn strasse. so I believe this is mainly a ploy to repatriate funds and implement capital controls.
Expats who left before paying their bills?
I really dont understand the tax issue here. You can place your monies anywhere in the world. Thats legal. so your stock portfolio in UBS is crushed by 50%; what will you tax
------
Dude, a lot of the money was never reported as income, so 40% taxed off the bat. Then, the US taxes people on worldwide income, so the interest, dividends, etc would all be taxed. Maybe you're thinking of some other country.
.
Those 52,000 are the 'Elites' and will be protected. It must be the same hell Tubo Timmy went through waiting for the 5 year Statute of Limitations to take care of, at least some, of his taxes. Stall, stall, stall.
No statute of limitations in a tax case if fraud can be proved. They can go back to when you were in the womb.
The Swiss certainly were not neutral in WW2. They were with Germany, austria, hungary, rumania, italy, ireland, ukraine, estonia,latvia, belarus, thousands of french, thousands of belgium,thousands of Finns, thousands of dutch, the Vatican,etc. The Communist Russian Red Army was not neutral however.
but they beat the hell out of all those above mentioned which is nice
Money from the US was transferred through Swiss bank accounts into Germany and Russia. The war pulled the world out of the Great Depression.
1. create money shortage and depression
2. buy the world on the cheap
3. fabricate a war to get the economy going
4. take spoils
5. start with 1.
My heartfelt sympathies to those ensnared in this operation. Surely now, rains of purification will fall upon the Cayman Islands.
Austria
Ireland
Gurnsey
Caymans
Channel Islands
And more. The list goes on and on.
The IRS got pissed because UBS was actively soliciting accounts using tax evasion as the enticement.
They know it is going on. They did not want their noses rubbed in it.
Anyone who has dealt with the service first hand knows how high and mighty (as well as arrogant)they can be.
oh come now--how can you be against something that was so sweet to trade?! if they're going to juice the bond markets, at least it's nice they do it in a way that
His message was being spread and gaining even more support...therefore he needed
to be censored. good articles;
target="_blank">my newest bookmarked finance website
href="http://www.iamned.com" target="_blank">finance news & finance opinions
Who in their right mind would ever put money there again? They might as well put a "closed" sign on the border.
I'm completely in favor of rich people using Swiss banks to evade the IRS. Starve the Beast.
Three Rings for the FED-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Treasury-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Bears doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord Blankfein on his dark throne
In the Land of Goldman where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all (SEC), One Ring to find them (HFT),
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them (VWAP)
In the Land of Goldman-NYSE where the Shadows lie.
Canary in a coal mine?
Hardly
15000000000
/
52000
=
288k +/-
this is hardly action that would cause the "truly wealthy" real harm...
next
I support wealthy tax cheats breaking the law while leaving the rest of us to pay their share. It fits completely with their god-given right to front-run the NYSE and play casino with our grandchildren's standard of living. Good for them. Suckers with payroll deductions should just hope that the debtors' prisons have better food than they would find in the local dumpster.
"I wonder what we're giving them in return for the names"
Hopefully what we gave them was the following: "You will give us the names, or you, and any Swiss banks which operate in a similar manner, won't do business in the U.S. any longer."
Which is why I pulled most of my assets out of UBS over a year ago.
Obama and his marxists theocracy believe the monies belong to them. It doesnt. It belongs to the People. They are trying to destabilize europe just like the marxist FDR and the marxist Stalin. Then blow up europe again and make the christian people suffer, again. What will it take to make the marxist understand? gas? fist? gun?
Lets invade Switzerland and take over the banking computers.
Oh shit, that won't work now will it?
Not that I have any sympathy for the Swiss variety of bankster crooks or the mega-rich douchebags and crime lords whose monies they launder, but to keep things in perspective, that estimate of hidden/evaded taxes amounts to less than 10% of what the U.S. has thrown into that giant sinkhole known as AIG in just one year, and is likely quite a bit less than any of a number of large U.S. corporations have evaded by "headquartering" in the Cayman Islands. Let`s pick a random one such out of a hat:
http://www.goldmansachs666.com/2009/05/23-goldman-subsiduaries-domiciled...
This fine upstanding Cayman Islands corporation - which happens to also do a small bit of side business in the U.S. - paid an effective tax rate of 1% last year, while benefiting to the tune of several tens of billions in taxpayer-funded largesse. Ain't free-market capitalism cool?
There was an article 3wks? ago, said out of 117,000 swiss accounts the u.s gov was seeking info on 52,000. So the Swiss aren't having a problem turning "them" over.The identites of the rest will remain anonymous and business as usual.
TO: zeropoint..do you remember when Mcgovern? wanted to legalize cocain in the U.S., Brazil said if we did, they wouldn't honor their payments to the world bank, that was about early 80,s. Frank
Ok, so the Swiss will give up the biggest advantage they have? I'm having a tough time with this one.
Doh! What happened to the math quiz? I enjoyed those..hey after trading FX all night they were a bit of a challenge.
The amnesty shuffle is what the IRS is trying to force. The final agreement will be for UBS customers only. If you were stupid enough to bank offshore with an onshore bank your about to get spanked....
His message was being spread and gaining even more support...therefore he needed
to be censored. good articles;
target="_blank">my newest bookmarked finance website
href="http://www.iamned.com" target="_blank">finance news & finance opinions
This is just one more example of looking like something is being done.
When will the issue of stripping header data from international transactions be addressed?
-nogeithner,
I thought about that but the whole idea that AP/reuters etc are government run "truth ministries" is so Orwellian....what a nightmare.
I still miss the math problems Tyler.
My Perspective-
Remember this is a socialist takeover - the list has incredible political leverage value
Solid comments and observations.
I'd like to add that I also think that part of the threat is a seizure of UBS assets in America for non-compliance with a court order - if the trial were to go the fed's way (not a big 'if'). If freezing/Seizure were to happen, Switzerland's largest bank would wobble and if it went down it would take Switzerland with it (UBS & CS have more assets than the entire country).
I don't think the Swiss would touch a World Bank/IMF bailout ... they know what that racket is all about.
Finally, we can expose those Cadillac welfare queens hiding millions and make Regan proud!
If this is a case of the IRS searching for unrepported income, then why are they looking for 52k individuals? shouldnt they be looking for corporations with accounts? But UBS was courting individuals not corporations for these accounts. None of this makes any sense. just seems like a marxist style shakedown. well obamas gransparents were both members of the american communist party; as was his father Frank marshall Davis.