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The Fifth Rule Of Zero Hedge Is...
In my capacity as a casual comment viewer on Zero Hedge I have found myself of late issuing an unduly expansive number of warnings for bad behavior in print. One hates to use the heavy hand of moderation on a site dedicated to transparency and throwing sunlight on the cipher-laden world of finance, but I need to make something absolutely clear:
Anyone directly advocating violence against any individual, group of individuals, institution or organization is going to feel the sting of the lash from here on out.
This kind of psychotic noise gives us a bad name (kill the messenger, you know), tends to attract the attention of authorities, particularly in the United States (which is already predisposed to wonder after our subversive criticism of The One and the National Security™ risk we present to Bailout Nation) and more importantly, is antithetical to the goals and purposes of Zero Hedge.
To be even more specific:
Zero Hedge and the legal team here will vigorously oppose thorough all the legal means at our disposal any attempt to obtain, coerce or outright steal data from our offshore servers. This probably won't take much effort since we keep very sparse logs in the first place. However, it is not impossible to imagine that we would entertain a very narrow exception if asked to cooperate with authorities. To wit:
The credible threat of future violence.
There is no moral position we are willing to entertain that would permit us to stand idly by and ignore cases like these.
Let me provide some examples so there will be no misunderstanding:
- "Let's throw [all the bankers/banker x/that loser currently on trial] in jail." [Stupid on a truly Henry VIesque level, even forgetting for the moment that you probably only know as much about any particular case as you have read that afternoon in the New York Post - but borderline - seems to suggest due process (of a sort) at least]
- "Let's kill all the bankers." [Stupid on a truly Henry VIesque level, and also infringing - violence]
- "The next time you meet a Goldman employee, crack a fucking bottle over their skull." [Beyond stupid. Intensely infringing]
- "I'm going to slit [hedge fund manager's throat] when I next see her at L'escale in Greenwich." [So mercifully free of the ravages of intelligence so as to be mistaken for a mineral. Infringing to the level that causes serious and animated debate among the Senior Staff at Zero Hedge over the wisdom of proactively reporting this potential conduct to the authorities]
Hey. How about you do yourself and all of us a favor? Just because it's borderline and we appear to be tolerant, don't just defecate all over the whole of due process jurisprudence (due process IS in the Constitution of the United States, you know. You don't hate the Constitution. Do you, my outraged patriot friend?) as well as immediately brand yourself as a reactionary, populist tool who differs with Barney Frank only in the degree to which you tolerate violence by calling for hanging some random douchebag banker.
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In order to effect any sweeping change in society, it is absolutely essential to produce a discontinuity—that is, a break in Continuity. The theory of social continuity shows that. without this, the old continuities will necessarily tend to pull things back to the past.
agreed...and history shows us that random acts of senseless violence is part of this Continuity.
It's what happens when you use a tongue-in-cheek reference to a violent symbol as your theme. You attract people who actually believe the symbol is reality. You just cannot innocently pretend to be cool or violent or a rebel. You'll attract people who really are and then what?
Remember, remember the fifth of November. Dissent should be encouraged and civil disobedience must always be our duty.
There are certainly intelligent and tasteful comments that can be made to convey the same emotions. Idiots don't get much from ZH anyway so why would they hang here.
Let's hope we don't have to see any more Marla posts on this topic. I feel like a little kid and I didn't even do anything wrong!
You know Guy tried to blow stuff up, right?
BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH !!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night
Miss Marla: I would like to inquire about opportunities to feel the sting of your lash without having to first advocate violence against any individual or group. Thanks in advance.
HAHA! Funny.
I'm kinda wondering if Marla threatening anyone with the lash is now allowed under the Threat of Violence ban.
Is she even allowed on this site anymore?
Christ this thread is a party. So many rapiers out I can't tell the wit from the satire anymore. Irony everywhere, everywhere, irony. I'm having a bleeding ball, a wonderful time!
Marla, did we ever have sex?
Dude,
You've given some good post along the way. I am deeply disappointed at this latest, un-revolting, development. I love the fight club motif, but they can't live up to it. Please don't take your anger out on them with personal attacks. Please?
duckweed here
this is irony. - 'Marla, did we ever have sex? ' is a line straight out of Fight Club made by Cornelious after his alter ego, Tyler, starts banging her.
this is definitely tongue and cheek.
What did ZH expect when the sites theme to address these issues is that of a books whose whole plot is that of a angry young man who is split by what he see's and experiences so that the only way to salvation is to suffer the split so he can take back his life and in the end, find personal salvation. He cpuld not endure the hypocrisy any longer, neither within himself or the society he endured. It is a perfect metaphor even for this discussion of this 5th rule post.
The second paragraph gets at the heart of the issue for me. Cognitive Dissonance would love this post too. We are split, we crave integrity, and every move we make towards it seems to split us worse.
We know the truth of what this kind of censorship means coming from these folks. They are operating in a context that generates ambiguous cultural products (we sell rebellion and play at it but we can't really be rebellious). The truth is there is no truth. Good arguements can be made that they should take a stand and honor the integrity of the fight club motif (we might call this art, there is a way to see posting on this site as performance art). But there is something called picking your battles. Run away to fight again another day. There is not enough gain in making a freedom of speech play, particularly when, if forced, they can't resist it.
So a compromise is struck which brings a stark, cold, light to bear on the fact that the country is already lost.
This is the war.
Doesn't look like much, does it?
Regarding the comment to Marla from the book, it was a joke, that is fine. Once we get it they are not doing fight club as the motif, the comment looks threatening to me. There is a good brain behind that angry avatar. Keep posting.
peace. really, I advocate a non-violent approach and you have read it. the things that i choose to post that are inciteful, are intended as a wake up call, and I try to choose phrases that have already been well established as the voice of the revolution... and Fight Club is one of them. They also provide me the opportunity to acknowledge the beast within me that would actually enjoy "unleashing the wrath of gods" upon those that oppress the many. In the end, have found that the only true freedom is achieved from within one's own body/mind. It is that strength that has enabled me to personally drop out from the system and begin to live on the fringes. I hope that others will join me and that together we can share one anothers experience outside of mainstream and thereby reduce some of the anxiety that ineveitably comes with the territory. Eventuall this sucker is going to fall and a lot of people are going to need assistance from those of us who have already found a way to live without the current system.
Anyhow, you rock sister... and i love your wit.
And you inspire! I am a victim of systemic capture. I cling to stuff I know is bullshit. I am paralyzed, not knowing what to let go of first. What if I am wrong? I am working on finding my way to where you are. For real you are out of it? I have this one bookmarked. I am not saying this looks like perfected heaven, but, well...
http://www.ranprieur.com/essays/dropout.html
that website is damn good soap, merci.
The quest for 411 continues unabated.
for real, out of it. and somedays i experience fear and anxiety over it and some days i don't. currently I am a care taker at a buddhist temple and therefore have acces to the internet. for the 18 months prior, I lived out of my car and camped all over the united states. I have been coast to coast several times since this debacle began. prior to this I have worked as a control systems engineer for over 25 years. I started daily meditation practice about 20 years ago and have trained in both rinzai and soto zen branches with some of the most dynamic and authentic teachers in the world. I have lived and travelled the world. I have experienced the world from missile control center on a US Navy FBM Submarine during the cold war to the top of manay a fourteener in the rocky mountains, sky dived over Ohio, sailed solo in the south pacific, I have lived. Still, this is the boldest thing I have ever attempted, I felt like I could not look myself in the mirror another day if i did not at least try this radical step. Sure, I do things for money, and have contacts, but I only do enough so that I may live, and it is now outside of our current system. Someone has to do it. Why not me?
thanks, for the link, I will take time to read after I finish a project for a friend of mine.
geez uz... how embarrassing for the both of you. You wanna drop out of sight? make it real? how about this: sell everything you have, including the lap top and roam the wilderness carrying only what you can beg ala francesco and clare, OR, you could really drop out by dropping the big one on the insiders. I mean blow the fuckers up. Isn't that what the Zero is all about? The insiders come clean with us dupes and dopes?
Get this- I'm a nobody and did the random walk thing (didn't know that's what it was- average return but no hassle), snp index and out of sight, out of mind; come back after 30+ years and collect the 8% loot. Guess what? The insiders stuck it in my hiney so what to do? That's it, pay more attention, learn the ropes and reap away. No luck there as my hiney has been handed to me. And the Zero sez it's cause of cheatin' insiders. Do say!
On the West side it's kind of rough, but that's where my 401k gets fed. Lots of robberies there. At least the thievin' shithead there steals from his need; these inside pricks steal from their want. Am I pissed? Goddamn right. Do I hope the worst for the lot of them? Goddamn right- they took from my child. Will I act on it? Yeah I just did. My only hope is that the insiders reading this will blow the fuckers up. What does that mean? Literal? My hope is they end up in a max sec prison and some fella named Rick, or Dontae or Homes packs his fudge on a regular basis.
I can't blow these fuckers up. But you insiders can. Go ahead, drop out, get real and disconnect- tell on em, with audio tap, documents, whatever.
Zero, what are you fighting for? Is this just a grudge with insiders who threw you out? Or are you fightin' for the workin' man? (anyone and everyone who is not an insider). You insiders who know- you've got it comin' like the rest of us- best come clean now while you can. It's coming bigger than Butch.
i know it's a bitch, but it's time to snitch.
the chinese are going to find out in the end anyhow,
and their sense of justice is a bit more unforgiving.
Love the essay, echoes of Thoreau. I have emailed it to myself for my files, thank you.
Thoughts like these may make a refuge for those of us who, b/c of family, cannot 'fight back' as we might like and need to figure out how to live quietly and well, relatively hidden. We are past the days when we could depend on Big Bruvver, if we ever could.
Chick,
This is irony - Irony (from the Ancient Greek ε?ρωνε?α eir?neía, meaning hypocrisy, deception, or feigned ignorance) is a situation, literary or rhetorical device, in which there is an incongruity, discordance or unintended connection that goes beyond the most evident meaning.
In the movie Fight Club, the Narrator(also refered to as Cornelius), phones Marla and asks, "Marla, did we ever have sex?" after he discovers Tyler, his altar ego, has been banging her.
The sad thing is that ZH Tyler Durden is letting Marla run interference for him, the real Tyler would handle it himself, it wouldn't even cross his mind to ask his rag doll.
The post from two days ago says it all(The DARPA announcement) - "It's time to take Zero Hedge to the next level." This next level is starting to reek of sellout - ZH's Tyler is beginning to suffer from odour of Jaque, I mean Jack(another character from Fight Club).
I only recently registered to post on this site and, for the record, I think I may actually know who ZH's Tyler Durden is, if not him then it is definitelty someone he is close to. Anyway, I started reading ZH on blogspot last January when there were less than a couple hundred readers according to his site meter. I have been impressed and immensely grateful for the content that Tyler has provided. It was sucha relief to know that someone with at least a cursory bit of insiode information, and definitely technicals to back it up, was willing to call bullshit, bullshit. Tyler did not pick this theme randomly. But suddenly he is acting like an undercover fed inciting a peaceful but angry citizenry to a protest, and after displaying his own molotov, is shocked that others actually brought their own and have started throwing them.
This is what happens when your own power begins to become palpable - it corrupts absolutely.
If this is the direction ZH is going I will be happy to fill the gap somewhere else, but I will focus on ZH's content emphasizing this post concerning the 5th rule as the catalyst and continue the good fight from there.
If this site isn't about free speech in the spirit of it's current 'about' page, and I quote,
though often maligned (typically by those frustrated by an inability to engage in ad hominem attacks) anonymous speech has a long and storied history in the united states. used by the likes of mark twain (aka samuel langhorne clemens) to criticize common ignorance, and perhaps most famously by alexander hamilton, james madison and john jay (aka publius) to write the federalist papers, we think ourselves in good company in using one or another nom de plume. particularly in light of an emerging trend against vocalizing public dissent in the united states, we believe in the critical importance of anonymity and its role in dissident speech. like the economist magazine, we also believe that keeping authorship anonymous moves the focus of discussion to the content of speech and away from the speaker- as it should be. we believe not only that you should be comfortable with anonymous speech in such an environment, but that you should be suspicious of any speech that isn't.
then it may be time for the ZH staff to cme out from under its non de plume banner and reveal themselves. If done, then hey, we can just write them off to the dustbins of history ala CNBC.
It isn't easy to be this harsh for a blog I have respected so much, but I am not afraid any longer. I would be happy to exchange my real name and address with any member of ZH staff, as long as they do the same.
Saying "the real Tyler" is like saying "the real Spiderman."
ironic! ain't it!?#
This is exactly why there should be no girls in the fight club. And that includes guys who act or think like girls (which is going to eliminate many).
Oh... look at you hiding safely behind your anon shield... I can see what a real man you really are...
I agree, you need women.
Anon, just because you happened to be born without any sexual organs does not require you to be jealous of those that were.
I suggest you find a way to attempt to respect yourself, passerby and the process of life regardless of IF you can participate in its creation or not.
In case you missed it along the way Anon I am going to point something out to you. There are huge difference between; Guys, Guyze, Dudes, Boys, Men & Gentlemen. As there are between; Gals, Guyze, Chicks, Girls, Women and Ladies. Since I cannot fathom where on those scales you reside I suggest you consult your physician for a classification determination. Perhaps they might be able to provide you with the assistance you require.
OK, finance, economy, corruption, TEOTWAWKI, whatever...
Some of the smackdowns are so damn good that they alone are worth showing up to this site for. What gives it that 'fight club' colour. Gold star to you funnyboy.
As i said before,I will always cherish the initial misconceptions I had about you Anon,,
Waite a minute. I am a banker and I want to kick my ass! Why shouldn't every one else feel the same!
That's the funniest comment I've read.
Due process... how... quaint.
Laws are for the little people. And the occasional sacrificial scapegoat needed to keep up the facade of the rule of law.
True enough.
First time posting. I love this site as it provides another perspective - and not from the main stream media. I don't need another perspective from them I know they are worthless. What I want is another perspective from other bear/Austrian/real money sites. From those I need variant perspectives and ZH provides a real nice collection of view points (both from posters and commentators).
And frankly I don't have any problem with the rules implemented - I tend not to talk in such terms I find it a waste of time and energy. As many have pointed out talk has never won a war and that includes talking about violence (although I am aware that they meant the opposite).
But I once worked at a game company and I can see that a lot of the posters on ZH have the same mind set. They are the type who when told they cannot use certain swear words will make up new euphemisms that mean the same thing. Be prepared for people to put Bible references or put certain names of books or literature into posts as veiled references to what they want to say. People will get around the rules and there is no way you will be able to chase after their creativity. Draw a tight line and don't sweat the details or you'll drive yourself nuts.
T
"As many have pointed out talk has never won a war and that includes talking about violence (although I am aware that they meant the opposite)...They are the type who when told they cannot use certain swear words will make up new euphemisms that mean the same thing. Be prepared for people to put Bible references or put certain names of books or literature into posts as veiled references to what they want to say. People will get around the rules and there is no way you will be able to chase after their creativity."
Which is the essence of satire. You don't think Pope's 'The Rape of the Lock' was about hair, do you, or Swift's Proposal about dinner. ;-) If no-one's offended, then it's comedy not satire.
Oh, and it's the essence of revolution, too...and 'Vive les sans-culottes, jettez les sabots!' was not really about breeches or shoes...
The 18th century may be about to rhyme. Mmmm, I think I'll have salt&pepper squid for lunch.
They have been having us for a while, eh Renfield? Least we can do is return the favor. ;-D
Does canibalism qualify as a reasonable future threat or some such? Of course I guess it is not canibalism because they are another species from us....
They are evil, we are not. I always work out first who's on my side and who isn't. :-) They are 'from' and will 'return to' an entirely different place, and yes have been eating us for lunch for awhile now.
Idi Amin claims that human tastes like chicken. But I expect squid still takes lemon juice, salt & pepper, or some good batter to make it palatable and get rid of that fishy, oily flavour...
I noticed someone up there, well before me, suggested calamari. I think Tyler has hit on the perfect meme here. I am dedicating myself to sending it viral to the best of my ability, as indeed I dislike confusion around who the Real People are. And who they aren't.
(And I think Lloyd Blankfein, or Jamie Dimon, whatever they may be are not real people.)
As to being a threat...I dunno. On the 'threat' scale of "Would I be afraid if...", if someone said he was gonna eat me for lunch...well, it would just depend on how cute he was, I think. ;-)
"I can't stand violence," said the Fight Club fan.
The troll problem already solved on many sites like news.ycombinator.com or even reddit.com. What you need is public up/down voting for posts, so the racist or hysterical junk will fall down the page almost invisible.
And drupal is probably not the best engine for this site. But it is just simple to maintain.
Comment rating...seconded. Including the earlier idea about 'abusive' (or 'waste of time') rating...
Live ammo? Ruh Roh. Can one play with live ammo at fight club?
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=az7AcisnxsCA&pos=10
Wall Street Faces ‘Live Ammo’ as Congress Aims to Unravel BanksBy Alison Vekshin and Robert Schmidt
Nov. 12 (Bloomberg) -- Seven Wall Street lobbyists trooped to Capitol Hill on Nov. 9, hoping to convince Representative Paul Kanjorski’s staff that his plan to dismantle large financial firms was a bad idea.
They walked out with a sobering conclusion, according to the accounts of two attendees who requested anonymity because the meeting was private. Not only was Kanjorski serious, he planned to offer the legislation as early as next week -- and it just might pass.
“We’re playing with live ammo,” said Sam Geduldig, a lobbyist at Clark Lytle & Geduldig who represents financial- services firms and wasn’t at the Nov. 9 meeting. “The banking community is rightfully concerned.”
Who judges metaphor?
Right. And this is what kids play these days.
"Feelings? Professionals have standards"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyNuriXG3BQ
Revenge fantasies...where do they get filed? Personally I don't post 'em but they are a healthy and indeed necessary part of being a human being affected by trauma. It took me a long time to understand this.
As for force or power vs. violence per se, please examine the list of actions in Gene Sharp's amazing Politics of Non-Violent Action and you'll find everything you need to move quite a few mountains without staining your shirt...er, maybe some sweat or cola, but nothing from another person's body.
http://aeinstein.org/organizations/org/198_methods-1.pdf
How about water boarding? Water Board the Rich?
Water Boarding is legal, How about Water Board the Rich?
hehe
so the plane hijack and fly into canary wharf city group,hsbc,or whatever concrete cock effigy isnt allowed to be dreamed of anymoe. i wouldnt put them out with my piss.
need to get it out somwhere otherwise i might just do it.
I really don't get what the big deal is... you people want to rant, create your own blog and talk your garbage. As far as I'm concerned, I learned so much about economics, finance and all that jazz from this site and appreciate the work they're doing. Let's not forget about the research that is required to bring the content and commentary they do.
People should keep their comments and questions insightful and constructive. The whole purpose of this site is to inform and unveil the truth to the "commoners", such as myself.
Basically, shut up to the haters who have nothing of value to contribute, and let the rest enjoy this site.
BTW, you should get rid of anonymous commenting... and ban IPs of people who put up stupid crap... be elitist and selective in who you let see and comment on this site. It's THAT good, and deserves that respect.
This is by far the worst comment I've read here.
The System has won.
Godman/Rothschilds rules, we obey.
To paraphrase the late great Sam Kinison, "its not that I'm against broker death", just that there is a time and a place to air these views, and its not in the public domain, especially now that the Obambi Administration is subpoenaing ISP's for client addresses.
We no long live in a free country, the first Amendment is under siege, and my guess is ZH has recognized that reality.
It's not a free country anymore, get over it.
Its not a perfect world and everything has costs.
You go Marla! While there's always room for the bullion and canned goods crowd, ZH is foremost a productivity tool. Let's keep it working.
But please don't stop Robo's eye candy.
I think I will find it very difficult to entirely stop my exhortations for certain members of the financial services industry to commit that most Wall Street version of Seppuku. However, in keeping with the request to clean up the comments ghetto I will change my occasional post tag from, "Jump! You Fuckers" to simply "Jump!" That should massively improve the level of discourse.
Jump!
Tom,
I think it is safer to say, "You Fuckers." "Jump" is the incitement, the violence.
Maybe shorten it. Let me try:
"You Fucks!"
Obviously Goldman Sachs, who deserves a slow painful death has infiltrated Zero Hedge.
Pathetic and a cop out.
Taxation without representation is violent, get over it!
Thank you for this post, Marla.
A few weeks, maybe a month ago, someone posted a message about the US needing the services of Tim McVeigh again - or something to that effect. Not only was the post tasteless (which I can let slide) it was troubling. So I'm glad to see ZH making an attempt to clean the boards up of crap like that.
Everyone be nice.
Stay in a single file line and no pushing.
One cup of kool-aide per person and you can keep the plastic Zero Hedge cup as a souvenir.
FUCK you!
Classic ZH Anon comment.
I love it.
SO, as owners of this site/place/address, how do you moderate those that add nothing but hot air or take the air from the rest of us? I believe this is the second itteration on this theme-first back at the blog. And, since then matters have gotten a bit 'worse'. And better. Contributors are good, generally. But overall, emo has ruled on the board, not totally, but enough that it is a tough slog for me. Sure Fight Club rules....all that. Except that is virtual, this is actuality. I have always been an adherent of the axiom, if you write it you cannot take it back. You may obfuscate, spin or apologize, but it is there, black and write. My only thought is if you cannot back it with some facts that you can stand on and can hold up to some review, think before you post. If not Marla, post the piece from ZH and comments are off line to seen after they are moderated. Not very free wheeling, and definitely not like BD, "If dogs run free, why can't we?"
Going to do something about the anti-Semitism next?
Hey everyone:
I can see a need to "ban" incitements to violence or disorder here.
This site is dedicated to publishing the unpleasant truths about the greed, corruption and lawlessness in our financial system that TPTB do not want us to know.
As such -we're being WATCHED - and the quickest and most painless way for TPTB to get rid of ZH once and for all is for them to have us effectively and credibly dismissed as another "nut-job wacko" site.
Let's not forget that ZH's biggest strength is its key readership on Wall Street, in Washington, and in The City - and these folks have neither the time nor the inclination to get involved in juvenile discussions of gratuitous violence on "guilty bankers". That just cheapens the site and takes us all "off message".
But, metaphoric and amusing descriptions of the condign punishments these miscreants deserve should be allowed. My favorite?
After the Squid and his pals have completely wrecked the global economy, have the Mother of All Show Trials at The Hague. Charge them with "Financial Crimes Against Humanity".
I want to see Lord Blankfiend and the others sitting in the dock in cheap suits, listening to the translations as twelve judges decide their fate.
And try them under the Legal Code of Singapore. Singapore is famous for being both relatively uncorrupt and having rather draconian anti-corruption laws. Hanging and Flogging are just two of the punitive options.
And the sentence? Complete forfeiture of all wealth. Twenty years maximum-security confinement at the new Financial Crimes Detention Center at Guantanamo Bay.
And two hundred lashes with the brine-soaked rattan cane - said punishment to be delivered publicly on worldwide TV at the scene of the crime.
Hey, I'd love to see that, while I'm snacking on my calamari and marinara.
KptLt. laughing swordfish
9er Unterseeboote Flotille
"Twenty years maximum-security confinement at the new Financial Crimes Detention Center at Guantanamo Bay."
and then give back gitmo to the castro boys.
"The shepherd drives the wolf from the sheep's throat, for which the sheep thanks the shepherd as his liberator, while the wolf denounces him for the same act, as the destroyer of liberty. Plainly the sheep and the wolf are not agreed upon a definition of the word liberty; and precisely the same difference prevails today among human creatures." -- Abraham Lincoln
"The very essense of liberty lies in man's duty to protect the innocent." -- Prophet of Wise
What if the shepherd eats the sheep, later, after sparing it from the wolf?
It just sucks being a sheep.
Best to be a ram which is differnt than being a Rham, who is like the shepard who eats the sheep later.
Very few are innocent.
The real question is when is the advocation of violence appropriate. While saying certain things I would agree isn't nice. I do think the American people need to have a real discussion about the nature of our democracy and when a time of action would be appropriate. I know the second amendment and the right to carry arms was inteneded to ensure tyrany never rose in the US. The question worth asking is has the deomcratic process been so corrupted by corporate influece that action is justified.
If you were in jury and someone came to trial for certain acts against the state would this person be a hero in your eyes even if his/her acts were against the law. I can say I would consider a person a hero for doing things the government would prosecute. since one persons fredom fighter is anothers terrorist what does it say about our society when well educated upper middle class individuals would consider enemies of the state to be heros. This debate ios worth having, esp because it is getting clearer by the day that our constitutional rights are being taken away. I for instance consider the actions of the Federal reserve, and wall street to have done more damage to our country than Osama Bin Laden. Yet only one is condsidered a "terrorist".
Our founding fathers engaged in debates to determine when action agaist the state is justified on moral and political grounds. Is have that kind of debate against the rules?
"This kind of psychotic noise gives us a bad name (kill the messenger, you know), tends to attract the attention of authorities, particularly in the United States (which is already predisposed to wonder after our subversive criticism of The One and the National Security™ risk we present to Bailout Nation) and more importantly, is antithetical to the goals and purposes of Zero Hedge."
Marla has a valid point here.
Investigating and incarcerating those who are responsible for looting the US treasury is a good thing. But Free speech is not a license for anarchy.
Those in search of violent solutions should visit elsewhere like Denninger's board.
I love this site. 'Cause even though I had to spend, like, 30 seconds fast-forwarding through 10,000 comments to say this, I know it'll get read by people making more than me, day-traders with time enough to sit here and read these rants and brains enough to keep the thread pretty funny, all the way down.
hahahaha the delicious irony of a no-incite-to-violence post on the Fight Club!!!
As to the rule laid down, I surmise it is due to pragmatism rather than a moral imperative. The satirists of the 18th century also used noms-de-plume, and anonymous pages distributed at night and written in secret. As opposed to a public message board under the suffrance and control of the mighty fist of the New World Order. One does what one can and complies where one must.
Violence has its place and is sometimes necessary.
That said, anyone stupid enough to announce contemplated violence in public, or publicly incite thereto, is stupid enough to be banned/punished by the authorities whose faces they're screaming in.
The turmoil and debate in this thread, and the strong emotions over curtailment of speech, are why I love the American people. And it's the people ultimately I put my faith in.
(The *people*, not its goddamn government or its bloated corporates. Oh, and Blankfein's head resembles a penis. First runner-up in the Paulson dickhead lookalike contest.)
OT, some will find this post too mushy.
Reni,
You make me proud to be a woman. I have enjoyed every single one of your posts on this thread. Love your take on things. Hope you get back here to hear this. Bask at will. Live your one life to the fucking hilt, it is clearly there in you to do so.
I gotta confess now, at one point I thought you were a gay dude. But that was before I understood your avatar and talked to you. I was happy with you either way. That entity in there is smart, fun, and open! I hope you hear this as a huge compliment. I have gay male friends that are the best to talk to with about men, aesthetics, relationships, etc.
You represent Aussies well!
For the rest of you, if this post ain't financial enough for you, your problem. Get some love in your life.
HAW! Believe me, if I couldn't be a woman, I would SO be a gay dude! Could dress nice, dance well, love men, AND higher earning power. (Yes, sometimes stereotypes rock...!)
Coming from the most authentic, fearless commentor on this blog, that is a TREMENDOUS compliment. And one I take to heart.
I prolly should have put more thought into my avatar. Or at least, more 'realistic' thought...in your case, I always picture you just as your avatar looks. Please tell me that IS you! To the fucking hilt it is, sister...your words gave me a big smile right now, way over here across the planet. Thank you for this gift.
(Only reason I'm so talkative on this particular thread, is b/c the issue is so important...)
Marla, kind of windy - but I did enjoy it. Best part "So mercifully free of the ravages of intelligence so as to be mistaken for a mineral." LOL
May I suggest reducing it to one sentence:
ZH won't be wronged, ZH won't be insulted, and ZH won't be laid a hand on. ZH doesn't do these things to other people, and ZH require the same from them.
Books
is threatening to t-bag someone a threat of violence, or is that just a threat of humiliation?
i just want to be clear... ;)
Go commenters! Another spirited debate brought to you by ZeroHedge. Come for the unique insight, stay for the music.
hell yea! I love it.
Do what you have to do to keep bringing us the truth. I chose my avatar and picture because M. Jendrzejczyk paid the ultimate price for exposing tyrants and fighting for the little guy.
Thanks for all your work.
If you're going to threaten someone over the internet just put a smiley after it and it is no longer "credible" and goes into the realm of being a joke. I won't tell you how I know this.
So I came to Zero Hedge this afternoon to see how the markets reacted to the 30UST auction, and instead I found this?! Awesome.
My own humble contribution to this is as follows:
LIFE IS FULL OF HYPOCROSY. Everything we are exposed to in our lives (food, family, co-workers, religion, etc.) reeks of doublespeak.
Government is created to serve the best interests of society, yet politicians win elections by placating to special interests.
Investors are angered by bankers who took unscrupulous measures to create higher-yielding securities with hidden risks, yet bankers created them because investors demanded a better return for their money with reduced risk.
A small box of Corn Flakes costs $6, yet a large box of Frosted Flakes (the same box of Corn Flakes, but with all the extra sugar, corn syrup, etc. that would make it more expensive) only costs $4.
A financial website designed around an aggressive theme ("FIGHT Club") yields highly-charged, testosterone-laden interactions between members.
Insightful commentary offered in hopes of providing a glowing review towards the contributor appear more time than not next to an established profile, yet scathing remarks meant to inflict ridicule or embarrassment towards a user appear almost exclusively through anonymous users.
What is the common denominator in all of these comparisons? Human nature, as expressed through a open market environment.
Just as it says in the top-right corner of the page, "On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone falls to zero."
That includes Rome, Napoleon, The British Empire, GM, Reagonomics, Obamacare, Zero Hedge, Goldman Sachs, me, you... (well, maybe not GS after all)
Lets not lose sight of the big picture here: This is Tyler's website, not ours. Now, Tyler, Marla, et al understand that our participation ultimately drives what ZH will ultimately become. But, their demands are final, and our participation is optional.
I find it rather silly that a financial website with such tremendous resources would find it necessary to crack down on bullying, but I'm guilty of it too. I fucked up, I apologized to the user, to Tyler, and to all of ZH, and become a better user for it.
Next time you log in, think about what you want to attain from your visit before you start blowing someone up with your blog-rage.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/bruce-wasserstein-dead#comment-99805
With our emphasis on all other facets of personal development, there is much to be learned from practicing humility.
Unscarred,
Good job.
Thank you, MsCreant.
The Declaration of the Causes & Necessity of Taking Up Arms
http://www.nationalcenter.org/1775DeclarationofArms.html
The Continental Congress wrote the Declaration of the Causes and Necessity of Taking up Arms on June 6, 1775. It explains why Americans were at war with the legal, constitutional government of the American colonies. This occurred 13 months prior to the Declaration of Independence, a document possible only because the colonists did not submit their "unregistered assault weapons" to government control at Lexington and Concord.
In order to retain their natural rights, Americans were forced to take up arms. 25,000 American died carrying "unregistered assault rifles" in the 8 years of war that established American independence. The document states - "The arms we have been compelled by our enemies to assume…We will…employ for the preservation of our liberties, being with one mind resolved to die freemen, rather than to live as slaves."
I appreciate the quotation.
'We' would like to think we are beyond such barbaric days, the days of revolution, force, violence.
This denial has given our governments free reign for several decades of undeclared global warfare.
As long as we don't have to acknowledge it, and never say it...it doesn't really exist, right? Freedom of speech...freedom to criticise the *government*, whoever that government may consist of, is inseparable from other freedom of life.
Hitler _ Vietnam _ Iraq
We are not beyond such barbaric days. We are shielded from it by two vast bodies of water.
Marla,
How does one's first amendment rights get translated on Zero Hedge ? Is ZH private property that can impose it's own rules of conduct ?
Or is this a public forum which must guarantee the same rights to free speech that apply in the public square ?
It is well-known that the free expression of ideas from many people can be blocked simply by raising the fear factor…the chill. The authorities don’t need to be involved at all; just the threat by a few vague references to the authorities can be made.
Some of the comments on this thread would indicate that such confusion already is creating prior restraint on free speech.
Criminal violent organization seeks peaceful coexistance with non criminal non-violent participants in it's economic system. Come co-create with us. Our problems are your problems. Our fortunes are you're misfortunes. We seek as much support as we can get while supporting as little and giving as little as possible. Much comes in. Little goes out. Our goals are complete world domination. Followed by universal domination. We've extensively studied mob rule techniques. Emotional manipulation, financial manipulation. We like to be the only organized force in the universe so we try our best to confrom and manipulate every other organization. We do this by continually damaging and diseasing participants in our reality construction till they become accustomed to deeper and stronger levels of damage and disease as we march towards domination. Work harder to please us and remain non-violent as it makes us destroy the world and employ better manipulation techniques. We currently are using our best technique and have no others to employ as the sillyness of it all is becoming glaringly obvious despite our best illusionment efforts.
That is an excellent post!!
Agreed!
Thank you. I just was really disappointed with this post. I don't like violence and I don't want to promote violence. But you give an entity or a person power as that power grows you can contain it for a while by appealing to it's higher self which is really it's lower self the people it governs and has authority over. But you run it for very long over time and it always and I mean always turns evil. I do NOT CARE WHO YOU ARE CHARACTER WISE if you were sitting in the oligarchys chair there is no amount of character or self control that will keep you from not turning doing and being utterly evil. I'm sure Caligula was good kid. I bet Mary Antoniette was nice to people during some points of her life. It's just the structure of things. The people in charge appeal to OUR HIGHER SELF but since the people in charge are sadistic lying manipulative bastards they have to create an illusion of being a true higher self which isn't sadistic, callous, dictatorial, etc. You see the real deal here on earth. Bernie Madoff. He won't follow a law, he won't be guilted or goaded into doing the right thing. He has no better nature. If you study mythology you see the same stories repeated. God needs his shield fixed, the young knight tries to fix it but it's NEVER quite right. It's the KING MODEL that is screwed. The king is perma fucked. He's evil. He'll ALLWAYS BE EVIL. It's the most rediculous thing in the world. Looking for the source of evil in the goddamn sheep when it springs from the KING. I do not care about pleasing GOD. I do not care about following any GODDAM FEDS LAWS RULES. FUCK SIN. FUCK THIS WHOLE WORLD. The beam is in GODS EYE and I'm not here to fix or remove any splinter in my own. I won't listen to a HIGHER VOICE because there IS NONE. I won't appeal to fucking Tim Geitner's better nature because he HAS NONE. He's pure lies and manipulation. If you think I'm paying another cent in taxes so you can blow 14 year girls legs off in afghanistan with mines you're out of your goddamn mind.
When I get to heaven. They are going to come to me. They are going to throw down their lying ass I'm the most trustworthy thing in the universe energy and I'm going to remind them of all the drilling I did into their psyche. I'm going to remind them of how the appeals to thier higher self didn't get anywhere. Then I'm going to remind them of every time I got closer and closer to nailing the true understanding of how the world works all I got was manipulation. I'm going to remind them of just how much hysterical laughter it generated on my part. Thanks for trying to flood me with anxiety about how I'M FAILING COLLEGE. I will not be your higher self any more. I will follow but ONE COMMANDMENT and ONE COMMANDMENT ONLY. Though shalt not hog all the evil.
Two wrongs won't make a right. But neither will one wrong and one right. Don't give me shit and strawberries and ask me to bake you a pie that doesn't taste like shit motherfucker.
Having skimmed the postings, I'm reminded of the old question: "what's the difference between blather and drivel?"
Marla, I'm guessing you had no idea that a fairly straightforward, common sense notion would be met with such a variety of pure crap. Too bad, since the theory of this site seemed to be to build a more informed level of discussion, complemented by refined disrespect.
Keep the faith
Blather: to talk foolishly, gibberish.
Drivel: Idiotic utterance; silly nonsense; twaddle; drooling.
I think your post qualifies as both. I hope my post shows distinction (I distinguished the two words for you) and refined disrespect.
Keep your faith.
I'm sorry PK, but how does common sense justify censorship and prior restraint on free speech ?
Interesting to see how some people ego's would like to wipe out 200 years of American Jurisprudence.
I don't think anybody thinks advocating violence is good taste - but that's not the question. Free speech is.
Marla, I think your admonition is well advised - minus the threat to punish the perpetrator with censor.
(Legal Mode Off)
Agreed, Hayek and MsCreant. This is not about 'good taste' or even agreed standards. This is about the principle of freedom, vs the pragmatism of dealing with the New World Order.
It is a topic worthy of the most discussion on a site like this, not the least. It is *not* a simple matter, as so many financial issues are by comparison.
What if I enjoy the sting of the lash?
=]
"So mercifully free of the ravages of intelligence so as to be mistaken for a mineral."
Now that is an insult!