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Finland Opposes Aid To Ireland
After Greek CDS went offerless, and is about to pass 1,000 bps following news of Austria's defection from the EU rescue fund over Greece's endless lies, now we get the next defector: Finland, who it appears is opposing an Irish rescue. This is not too odd, since Finland actually has a viable banking system whose viability does not depend on the generosity of Irish and European taxpayers. What this means, however, is that European unity is finally coming apart at the seams.
Sure enough, here is ever cheerful Goldman appartchik Erik Nielsen trying to spin this latest game theory collapse into good news:
Newswires have just reported that Finland is opposed to an aid-package for Ireland.
While activation of the EFSF would require a unanimous decision by the Eurogroup, in my view, the reported Finnish opposition is not very important:
First, we are still only in the stage of informal negotiations, and the Irish are surely trying to get an agreement with conditionality very close to their existing policies (to limit the domestic political fall-out), and - specifically - they dont want to touch their low corporate tax rate. The Irish stance on the issue of tax codes has long been an irritant for the rest of the Eurozone, so its no surprise that some now try and get this addressed. But it doesn't mean that they'll succeeed. I suspect that it'll be another few days before we are near an agreement.
Second, I would be absolutely stunned if any of the small countries were to hold up a package after the Commission and IMF have agreed on it (and Germany and France have signed off). If someone really were to hold out, their share of the EFSF guarantee might not be used, but that wouldn't block the program.
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Austria and Greece. now Finland and Ireland. There seems to be a pattern here.
Seems a lot like dodge ball, don't it?
The hits are now comin fast up in the EUrozone! The new cool thing is to just say no to bailouts? Uh oh, cant be too good for Ben and Timmah. Not to mention not good for us, we're about to get assrammed big time.
tell it to "New York City." Having had "personal experience with the defintion of a Federal Obligation"--take the money, fur sure..."it comes with strings attached" tho.
Do you think this Nielsen actually believes this crap? I suppose he's no different than any federal employee who gets overpaid to not really care. What a fucking tool.
He's actually a pretty knowledgeable person. Back in July he pretty much called a (albeit short) rebound in the euro to 1.40 and long-term goal lower.
What he writes for GS is more, well, filler.
Europe is destined to burn to debt!
Canada will be next, considering our debt per capita (both personal and government) is one of the highest in the world.
Except we produce things and have NatRes.
So it's more people that your needing now, is it?
How about taking, oh, say, about 3 or 4 million of the USA's 12 million 'undocumented peoples' ?
If we didn't have to struggle along the US's mistakes our government and consumer debt situation wouldn't be so bad. Mistakes with Afghanistan, mistakes with Fed interest rate policies...etc..etc.
Hopefully the UK will add its name to the opt out, we have a huge liability
to the Irish Banks, and the last thing we need is more liabilities
the UK opt out? right. just as soon as they finish voting on that forever upcoming EU plebiscite...
we would love to have such a vote, but we can't get past our bloody politicians
exactly my point.
Did you vote them out in the last election? If not, why not?
Thats the liability of private bankers that should never have been taken on by the Govenment.Brown should be swinging from a lampost for all this.Nations are just starting to realise this money can never be paid back and the first ones to go their own way will be in better shape than the rest.
FASTER than I anticipated... the EU's days are numbered. World War III is imminent.
describe what you believe the chain of events will be. I know there are 1000 black swans out there, so it's hard to say, but take a stab in the dark.
First, a catalyst is necessary. What that catalyst will be, I do not know for sure but a few possibilities are:
Now, anyone of those is fair game and it could happen that any single one event or multiple events occur in rapid succession. We all know the banks are insolvent (remove mark to myth) and that is the most likely to occur or begin the dominos. Ireland will be forced to accept the bailout. We all know the EU will do anything in its power to keep the members paying their bills even if that means selling the public's soul to the devil as is the case with Greece. I also know, China will be looking to collect on their "investments" very shortly as they will not take the manipulation/scheming/lies any longer. That's my stab "in the dark"...
Unflag this as junk. This is serious. Read history please !
Thank you, but it seems the truth is not liked by everyone here...
Silly, silly.
Finland has a most justifiable case as, after all, Ireland followed the 100% corruption model of the US.
Back in the mid to late '70s (that would be 20th century) American insurance companies, led by Prudential, began offshoring their administrative jobs to Ireland.
While this helped somewhat to alleviate their unemployment, what really did the trick when the lowered their corporate tax rate to obscenely low levels, justifying Ireland as the profit shifting capital of Western Europe.
During this time, did they ever bother to develop their very own homegrown industries?
Now it's disappeared, during the great deleveraging.
Just as we see disappearing cities in America, where once stood industrial centers, we see the burgeoning cities in India and China, thanks to all those offshored American (and Euro and Japanese) jobs to those places.
Before any such WWIII, we will probably see a jihadi takeover in Pakistan, with nukes launched in multiple directions (probably towards India and Israel, but where they actually land is anyone's guess).
That will change things...how? Who knows.
And possibly anticipate the balkanization of the USA; long overdue.
Many of us are nauseated to combat over the likes of those Kentucky draft-dodgers they continue to elect to congress, and the rest of those brainless twits, twats and twerps on the R-Con side and faux crat side.
And 2012: the end of predatory capitalism.
Bet on it!
Forget the EU, the US, the world and its problems. The Beatles are on I-Tunes !!!
OMG, like wow, have you downloaded the new version? It rocks!!!
+1,000 - At least the Beatles & Apple understand the concept of 'value proposition' - a idea that no Central Banker has considered in well over 26 months!
BREAKING NEWS: "Dancing With the Stars will be adding additional drama. Keep your brains turned off and your TV's turned on to channel 7..."
this message has been paid for by Obamao
finnished
Yes, they are "Finnished" ;)
The WC is the International Room...
When you are heading there, you're a Russian
When you are in there, European
When you leave, you are Finnished
A joke told to me by a tour guide as he pointed out the bathroom at the back of a bus... 30 years ago. Why can I remember the bad jokes but not the really good ones.
When you go in the bathroom you're an American, and when you come out of the bathroom, you're an American, but what are you while you're in the bathroom?
European!
+1
The Irish are marching on Frankfurt from the west , the Austrians from the south and the Finns from the east !
Will they get cut down by Frankfurt's Prussian mercenaries or will they prevail.
Good one!
The Frankfurt Prussians wil prevail for a while but will inevitably fall
I don't know, the Prussians have Sarkozy's sacks of shit backing them up.
You can't rely on the Frogs, they haven't got any cash either, it's only the Prussians who have the cash in the EU
Well Frankfurt is not Prussian yet they seem to have the ability to propagandize these foot soldiers around the banner of a strong Euro.
Uh....wouldn't that be Austrians, Germans, and Finns marching on the Irish bondholders while the IMF, ECB, and Irish pols are marching on the Irish people?
Depends whether they are being paid.
And Gold priced in Euros is going down?? WTF is that? If I lived in Europe I would be buying Gold with both hands right now...........
Because they upped margin requirements earlier today.
I would expect a repeat of September 2008 if this sparks another financial crisis. Gold, along with everything else will sell off as everyone throws out the baby with the bath water. If this is the case, there is some pain ahead - but also some fantastic deals.
Bingo... markets are driven by fear and greed.. guess which one is in the driving seat for the next six months.. Gold bugs will be sitting in the back seat hanging on with white knuckles.
Geesh, you're easily spooked? Experienced PM traders are used to this sort of volatility and take maximum advantage of it. This kind of movement I am used to and it should surprise no-one. I am in the front seat with maximum visibility.
Sure thing.. however $650 here we come.. but you had better be quick.
If gold drops to $650, then everything will likely get annhilated. If this is the case, I would rather have assets that have no counterparty risk. Don't forget that if the Euro blows, it will set off an atomic bomb of derivatives (in which 600 trillion or so exist out there in cyberspace).
Yes, EVERYTHING is going to get liquidated including gold and silver.
Paging Magog...Magog to the white courtesy phone.
ROTFLMAO!! Now THAT is funny!
I second the ROTFLMAO - only thing missing is a William Banzia Portrait!
Shut up! That's great.
The capitan and his copilot were just seen entering the last lifeboat on the starboard side. They fled in a hurry but commanded the "music must continue to play"... I just saw the drummer flee with his belongings...
I'm a weaver of the word, not a maker of rhyme
But I'm going to tell you the story about my main man Shine.
It was a helluva day in the merry month of May,
Shine was the stoker on the Titanic that day
When a big iceberg come a floatin' their way.
Shine said, "Cap'n Charley, Cap'n Charley, there's a big iceberg floatin' our way."
Cap'n said, "Shine, Shine, don't you be no clown,
I got ninety-nine pumps to pump the water down.
I got pumps made of pipes and chumps to pump.
I got a trillion dollar load I ain't going to dump."
Shine said, "Cap'n Charley, Cap'n Charley, if you look now,
There's a whole lot of ice comin' 'cross the bow.
I ain't never read a book, ain't never been to school,
But Louzeeanna Annie ain't never raised a fool."
Shine said that to himself.
Cap'n Charley said, "Shine, Shine don't you know my might?
Anything I say and do is right.
You work for Cap'n Charley when the sun comes up
You brings my favorite slippers and my coffee cup.
You work for Cap'n Charley, stokin' the coal.
You work for Cap'n Charley and I owns your soul.
You might be a Christian and pray to the Lord,
But on the Titanic, I outranks God."
Then there was a loud, crashin,' smashin' sound
God pulled rank.
Shine said, "You might be the Cap'n on the land and the sea,
You might run the engines, you might turn the key.
You might be Cap'n Charley, well all that's hip,
But I'm gettin' off of Cap'n's stinkin,' sinkin' ship."
Jumped his black butt into the sea, he did.
He said, "I'm going to tell you one thing, and I don't mean maybe,
But I was long and grown when Father Time was a baby.
I done kilt a whole lot of men's way better than you.
Done kilt a thousand V.C. in Dien Bien Phu.
You can be Tarzan and Rambo and Jungle Jim,
But that's one iceberg that sure ain't slim.
Forked is your tongue, I done heard all the lies,
I'm going to ride with the water and make my own enterprise."
Just about then a beggar came on board cryin,'
"Save me, save me, Shine, in the name of the Lord.
I gots money and dollars I can't even spend,
I owns a whole lot of people, got stock in the pen,
I give you fine black women and white ones, too,
because I gots more money than the U.S. Mint do.
I give you big pretty houses and Cadillac cars,
Give you fifty hotels and ninety-nine bars.
I runs all the drugs from Harlem to Watts,
I takes food from the mouths of the tiniest tots,
I buys all the missiles and guns for the planes,
I own ninety-nine ships and three hundred trains.
I give you all the money that a black boy needs,
Give you ten tons of coke and twenty tons of weed."
Shine thought for a while. . . .
"I'm the runner of the world,
The master in the Lord,
I'm going to please her with my Visa and my Bank Americard.
I'll give you money and power and fortune and fame,
Every fine black girl in the world going to know your name."
Shine said, "You can giggle from the weed, you can laugh from the coke,
But get your bootie in the water and cut your stroke.
You can have all your money, your friends and your foes,
You can finance your wars and your G.I. Joes.
You gots more money than a human had oughta,
So get your butt out here in this freezin' cold water.
You rich and you greedy, ain't never been broke,
So get your butt in the water and cut your stroke.
You can call on the mounties and the C.I.A.,
But they going to get their dry behinds wet today.
Sorry, Mr. Banker, I don't need your pain,
because I'll be sittin' with my baby just a listenin' to the Train.
I'm going to swim to New Orleans for some panne meat,
Going to do the Mississippi Mambo down on Claiborne Street.
Going to wear orange and gold and purple and green,
Go runnin' with the Injuns, eat all the red beans.
You might like Chaka, you might like Rufus,
Even Leon Spinks know you lying through your toofus."
Just then the banker's daughter floated by Shine.
She said, "Come over here, Shine.
Save some o'little ole mine.
I got a body like a ballard and cheeks like Gladys,
Butt like Bertha and hair like Alice.
I got legs like Tina and a chest like Dolly,
I can almost sing colored and lilac ollie."
He said, "I like my women's lips red and my crawfish burled
I like the mamas with the boom booms and their hair all curled.
I like hot fil? gumbo and devilish eggs.
I like them Uptown girls with they big fine legs,
I like Downtown womens with they night dark eyes,
I like Backatown womens with they big brown thighs.
I done lived on the land and on ships in the sea,
And the ladies on land is the ladies for me."
And Shine swam on. . . .
Shine swam down past the Florida Keys,
He was trembling in the arms and weak in the knees.
While Shine was a'swimming, the ocean grew dark,
And he bumped right into a great, big shark,
A biiigggg black one.
The shark he was purty, with pearly white teeth,
He said, "Come over here, Shine, I'm a make you my meat.
You sure look good, swimming in my sea,
Gon' make a right mighty fine meal for me.
I ain't got no chilrens and I don't have a wife,
But one thing I got is your no-swimming life.
I'm a take you and eat you and swallow you whole,
Make you cuss the very day your mammy borned your soul.
I'm big and I'm strong, I takes what I like,
I done robbed Robin Givens and beat up Mike.
Yeah, Mr. Shine, Mack the Knife is sweet,
I can outswim a wave, and I like dark meat.
I rules all the waters, I'm King o'the sea,
Ain't ne'er whale or minnow can get past me.
All the fishes in the water gets outta my way,
From the Rock o'Gibraltar to Barataria Bay.
Ran into a whale, he thought he was slick,
Lil' minnow told me his name was Moby-Dick.
When I tore my teeth into that little ole whale,
I had to hang out a sign saying [high-pitched voice], `Blubber for sale.'
I done wrote with Alex Haley and dunked with Kareem,
Hung with I. W. Harper, got drunk with Jim Beam.
I done ate up the bones o'Gunga Din,
Got Cap'n Bligh's blood on my chinnie, chin, chin.
I done ate up some pirate when they walked the plank,
I done lied with Nixon and sang with Frank.
I done ate German subs and planes full o'people,
Ate the rock from the Hudson and the bell from the steeple.
I done ate up the quail that was hiding in the bush,
Took your grandma to the mountain and gave her a push.
I'm a meeaann shark.
I done ate up Sally, I done ate up Sue,
Start choking, quit stroking, I'm a eat up you!"
Shine said, "Mr. Shark, I'm a tell you, and it ain't no lie,
I taught the Signifying Monkey how to signify.
I done taught Hank Aaron how to hit the ball,
I showed Barbie's mammy how to make a doll.
That ain't really nothing, cause I tell you what,
I done showed Big Bertha how to do the butt.
You might rule the water from London to Selma,
But you ain't no badder than J. J. and Thelma.
My daddy's a poet, my mama's a singer,
I got a uncle out West who's a baaadd gunslinger,
Kilt three white men and lived, he did.
If you wants you some bones and some flesh to tear,
There's a cap'n and a banker and his daughter out there.
If you might chance to think you can catch this man,
You might as well be a tuna in a tunafish can.
Who you out here call yo'self trying to warn?
All you sayin' ain't but talk behind the barn.
You mighta ate a lotta pirates when they walked the plank,
But I likes shark meat, don't you see my shank?
I like red, silky shirts, I done paid my dues,
I like black Cadillacs and shark-skin shoes.
You might rule the ocean, reign over the sea,
But you gotta grow new fins to outswim me.
And Shine swam on.
The Titanic sank and a lotta folk died,
Grandmamas was weepin' and little babies cried.
When the news hit shore about the Titanic that night,
Shine was in New Orleans, high as a kite!
He played him some music with Satcha-moe,
Went to a cemetery party with Marie Laveau.
He was the slickest and the quickest,
He was fine like wine.
He was wicked in the picket, my man, Shine.
They thought Shine was dead, somewhere down afar,
But Shine was in New Orleans,
Hankin' and a pankin'
Glidin' and a slidin'
Honkin' and a tonkin'
Dreamin' and a schemin'
Smackin' and a mackin'
Smokin' and a jokin'
Bammin' and a jammin'
Jumpin' and a bumpin'
Winkin' and a blinkin'
Coolin' and a schoolin'
Juicin' and a goosin'
Hangin' and a bangin'
Skinnin' and a grinnin'
Rappin' and a yappin'
Buggin' and a huggin'
Gigglin' and a wigglin'
Hobbin' and a knobbin'
Peepin' and a creepin'
Maxin' and relaxin'
Funkin' and a junkin'
Chillin' and a illin'
In the neighborhood bar.
Yeah, yeah, in the neighborhood bar--Shine.
I likes! Don't know why you got junked--must've been Ig'nant McNugget, the man with no brain...
The situation in the Euro zone is becoming critical.
But "the decider" is Germany and Merkel. Save the "European project" and let the German taxpayers carry the cost or abandon it? So much has already been invested so it is not that easy...
Merkel does what she is told.
So what's her orders?
Save the project or abandon it?
No, I believe that this decision is upon her. She has immense pressures from both sides. But she remains "the decider".
She has to face the toughest decision in European politics since 1945.
Yeap, It's the oval office where Merkel gets her orders from! No doubt about that.. It is still reparation payment time!
Problem is that it is political suicide for Merkel to keep giving the German taxpayers money to Greece et al.
The German electorate have grave doubts about the EU, why.... because they are having they are having to pay for Greece et al.
I thought George was The decider.
The Germans are going to be pissed.
I salute to Finland.
And the sandcastle virtues are all swept away in/the tidal destruction/the moral melee/the elastic retreat rings the close of play as the last wave uncovers/the new fangled way
Yeah, thick as a brick.
Is it melee or decay?
If they could just roll out Arch Duke Ferdinand we got Bingo.
This piece of news is not reliable. There is no talk in Finland about declining aid to Ireland. The Finnish Finance Minister however has mentioned about demanding collaterals for the loan, but even that talk is probably directed towards the Finnish public (so as not to look like he is again wasting Finnish taxpayers' money).
Finland will cave in just like the other "rich" eurozone countries.
You may be right, but I hope not, we need the Euro to re-structure of implode so that we can all escape the corrupt EU Bureaucrats in Brussels
As a (fellow?) Finn, I agree.
There's a parliamentary election coming in a few months, and The People is furious about the current EU shit. The Finance Minister must make some noise so that he can say that he has at least tried to get better conditions for the aid package. Eventually, Finland will approve the aid package like every other EU nation will.
Sad, but true.
Allright! Allright! We'll put in our money. But you have to buy 500 Nokkia phones!
"It's all good!"
--Ben Bernanke, Ph.D.
They're fjuck'd
Erik Nielsen, you sir, have FAILED.
Ireland will be making a statement in 1.5 hours. I'm sure they caved.
http://tickerforum.org/akcs-www?post=172392
11 est no?
This dude must be stoned 24/7 to make a declaration like that. It must be easy making the squid salary.
I'm afraid news of Finland somehow miraculously growing a backbone are greatly exaggerated...
The Irish Lapdog Govt will certainly cave - it's what they have been doing for the last two years since they unconditionally guaranteed the Six Main banks in Sept 2008. Nothing to see here move along.
Here we go...http://bit.ly/bEAwaV
War amongst the EU? Nah...just a few bitch slaps... Both sides will roll over and do what ever the EU talking heads say.
War amongst the EU? Nah...just a few bitch slaps... Both sides will roll over and do what ever the EU talking heads say.
Hmm. Kind of like the 30 years war, everyone trampling across Germany.
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Just to continue, the sheeple at Finnish "equivalent" of the FT, Kauppalehti newspaper, are crying why do we have to help out why why moan moan noboby helped us early 90's now everyone is being bailed out...why don't you crybabies grow a pair, this train is headed for a collision, runaway train, nothing you can do you socialist morons, you too stupid to buy gold or silver so shut the f***k up and bend over.
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compound annual inflation rate, the appropriate term to measure this year over year inflation measurement? This level of inflation will make it difficult for people to properly value the products they buy relative to the products value in silver.. A value buying guide might be a useful tool going forward.
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Think that everybody who export and have tangible production (all growth emerging markets BRIC etc) shun SDR. Only banksters like it. Guess why?
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The first thing in the morning ZH read makes me wonder? Is the confidence and faith in the Government and Media so destroyed that it can not be rebuilt? Not to say that I believe any one of the sons of bitches. Just sayin that some how some way, trust has to be re-invented.
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Very good article.
It's interesting to note that the European population is shrinking considerably.
Without the young people to create new demand for goods and services, it's hard to imagine any kind of quick recovery. Add to that all these debt-ridden nations, it doesn't take much to put two-and-two together to see the prognosis for the Euro isn't great.
Europe is looking more and more like South America in the 80's: a bunch of debt-ridden Banana Republics. The South Americans learned their lesson (at least Brazil is on the right track) and IMF bailouts are part of the past.
So, the trillion dollar question is: Why can't Europe and the US control their spending???
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It's retarded shit like this that really detracts from the quality of the site.
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we all know that pure communism does not work, and pure capitalism does not either because capitalism is in effect a small group of parasitic individuals that exploit and destroy the masses of poor in order to create untaxed dynastic wealth for the few.
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