- advertisements -
this is merely bait for the masses....goldman, morgan stanley, jpm, and a host of other big names are walking scot free.
Gotta start somewhere. I'll happily take this over no action at all.
So, they got one small fish to scare others away from the practice or to eliminate competition in the shrinking pond? Better than nothing, but, for now, I'm not sure it is good...
The order flows these individuals were trading against WERE algos. These are the best day traders in the industry, and by diligently typing up hundreds of stocks a day and putting in orders they NOTICED that COMPUTERS chissled their orders trying to front run them. The developed a strategy to profit from the ALGOS that have DESTROYED our equity market. They are some of the only people dedicated enough, smart enough, and patient enough to BEAT the ALGOS... but...
In the this 1984, Orwellian, kleptocratic society they are being taken to the woodshed by a regulatory agency that is basically the whore of K Street Lobbyists that represent the banks that turned equities into a walking dead, zombie, worthless, manipulated market.
Thanks FINRA. and when, you get off you knees, wipe the corner of your mouth, and look up and smile at your favorite LOBBYIST PIMP, remember what you are. Wake up people.
Yes, this is the equivalent of the SEC going after Martha Stewart when they knew Bernie Madoff was out there.....
No even close. It's the equivilent of FINRA paying Mary Shapiro $7M in severance while Lehman, Bear, Citi, AIG stuff their SIVs with aged dog puke from which they protect GS but not the public.
laughing. lunch money. who cares? but it will make nice headlines for the peasantry on bloomberg, cnbc and marketwatch.
Trillium can find more cash stuffed in the sofas in the front offices. I am sure they are shaking in their boots over this "massive" fine. Get real!
Apparently Trillium was cutting into someone's profit.
Sick the dogs on them...
yes, i'm so refreshed at least that so many here understand what is going on. I know this is ZH, but I thought I'd find a bunch of posts about how great it is regulators are doing something
Does anybody ever accept the admission of guilt as part of their penalty anymore? Christ, Charles Manson wouldn't be forced to accept guilt.
Not so fast. The traders involved got up to two years' suspensions, besides fines and disgorgements.
A $1 million fine is a wrist-slap, even for Trillium, but all the major trading banks did the same quote-stuffing, and a lot more than 46,000 times.
This opens the door to much larger fines and disgorgements, and a long stint in the penalty box for platoons of prop traders from the Big Five.
This looks like throwing down the gauntlet to me. FinRA is holding the big trading houses over the fire. Somebody, somewhere is feeling the heat.
Why have a "stock market" at all? Just shut it down so people stop getting their pockets picked!
hey, algo's gotta eat too you know.
Jail time bitchez!
Absolutely. This is far worse than GS and JPM setting up AIG and Bear for the takedown then blackmailing Geithner who then sets up the bluecollar fieldhand taxpayer. But hey! We can't have elites in this country do jail time. What would the ChiComms think?
Just like when you have a bunch of lawyers buried up to their necks in sand .... it's a good start.
Are current "painting the tape" type prohibitions really sufficient to beat down HFT? I'm all for market structure reform that banishes or seriously restricts this kind of computerized trading but exactly what rule/regulation has Trillium transgressed here?
Arbitrary prosecution and vague assertions of wrongdoing aren't exactly the kinds of progress I was hoping for here.
When they get rid of all those HFT computers sitting on the exchanges, then I may believe they are doing something about this theft. Congrats Zerohedge on this great bit of real journalism.
Trillium is now a Buncha Bitter Bitches !
I don't where I saw it said, but I had more fun this weekend telling the cocktail party crowd it's not a market folks, it's just a crime scene.
Somebody had to do it.
So they busted another kid's Lemonade Stand?
So FINRA acted before the SEC could figure out what letter head to use?
Could it be the Fed supports HFT to prop the markets, and Trillium just got greedy-sloppy?
Have to burn someone to show (or give illusion) of SEC enforcement, as a lure for the retail investor.
You co-locate in order to acheive a millisecond timing advantage. What "customers" need that?
Exactly. The fines act as a strawman for the bigger theft.
I'll fine you for walking out of the store without paying for the Twinkies and we won't talk about the dead cashier and the empty cash register.
Love the analogy, CD. This is just a warning shot don't ya know. Problem is, it was enough to send the message that all the thievery is well worth the down side. Dumbshits.
I don't believe that co-locating the machines near the market servers would provide even that millisecond of timing advantage.
Now unless you're talking that these co-located machines were in the same network as the market servers (which I doubt, but if it were true would be an unbelievable advantage). In that case, yes, there would be a significant timing advantage.
However, with co-located machines on a separate network, you'd probably get faster speeds by placing your machines as close as you can to your Internet Service Provider (ISP) and choosing the closest ISP to the market servers. Co-located machines still have to travel out to the Internet Service Provider (ISP) then travel back to the market servers. Physical distance is not the same as the logical distance. Just a thought.
Are you kidding? That's how HFT lives. On-site with the exchange. They do not trade across the interwebs competing with bittorrents of littlelupe.
This is bullshit. What the fuck? Everyone's stuffing quotes, why don't they fucking fine everyone. FINRA is another, as worthless as they come, quazi-government worhtless overloard watchdog.
Normally the feds have to go to hong kong to find inside traders/manipulators.
Criminal fraud right in your face. No different than the keyboard jockey intercepting the passwords on your accounts and chipping off part of your stash or hijacking your credit cards. Yet these particular clowns get handslap fines and suspensions. They should all be jailed and barred from trading for life. The firm should be shut down and liquidated.
We will have to see if the "message" has sunk in at other HFT desks. A decline in quote volume would signal that firms on the street are getting the "message" that they are next.
Throw a few token criminals under the bus and create illusion of regulation and law.
Doubt anyone doing this has a shred of compunction.
tyler, did you know that america "always" comes back, economically that is.
warren buffet said so, must be true.
TLT is moving up ...
Will have to see how stocks end the day but I just loaded up on ----VXX
Good luck to you. I unfortunately loaded up on that pig last week when I thought it was cheap. Wrong.
Well we win some and lose some. I hope you're still holding your VXX for earnings season here. You should at the very least break even.
Thanks. Holding on to it for now with an open limit order.
If profit is 575 mil and you were only fined 1 mil - no incentive to quite quote stuffing. in fact seems more like incentive to keep quote stuffing....they got away with it, with a teeny tinny itty bitty fine. Who wouldn't gladly trade 1 il for 575 mil? Duh?
it was $575k profits, but that's only the amount finra could prove, and with chances of getting caught so far amounting to one in however many HFT-ers are out there, you're right, not much of a disincentive.
In the Arabic numbering system 575,000 is pronounce five hundred and seventy five thousand and is a smaller number than 1,000,000 which is one million. Duh?
"..you can't eat HFT."
Give this man the Pulitzer.
Sept. 13 (Bloomberg) -- Warren Buffett said businesses owned by his Berkshire Hathaway Inc. are growing and ruled out a second recession in the U.S. “I am a huge bull on this country,” Buffett, Berkshire’s chief executive officer, said today in remarks to the Montana Economic Development Summit. “We will not have a double-dip recession at all. I see our businesses coming back almost across the board.”
A huge bull, eh ? He's a huge something...
I would agree with Buffet except for one thing. The problem is not the existing businesses, it is the structural financial and governmental problems that threaten to swamp the effects of even good business.
Our company can exist on only 80% of the total US population/market because we are not dependent on the bottom 20%. However, the banks and government are affected by the bottom 20% of the economy... even if they might think they are isolated.
A way to interpret what Buffet is saying is that he believes his businesses are doing fine and isolated from the effects of further financial defaults. As a result, there will not be a general second dip, but there might be isolated pockets of trouble such as in financial, retail and construction.
another way to interpret what Buffett is saying is: "F*CK YOU!"... F*ck you from Buffett to the lower 95% by wealth in America. When anyone refers to this concept of "double-dip" they are saying they would prefer if the bottom 95% of america would die. This stupid double-dip concept is completely a MARKET PHENOMENON-- S&P dips to 666, then it bounces back to 1220 purely on QE measures and short-term balance sheet improvements... meanwhile unemployment in america grinds ever lower. The very wealthy have their stocks salvaged at the expense of the currency being shredded. Heres what Buffett's mindset is:
"F*ck you america! I act like your benevolent grandfather, then chuckle with awkward adolescent delight at the chance to abuse you even more via the impending currency destruction/ govt default or effective default. DOuble-dip you say?? What double dip?!!??? My silly tikes-- theres no double-dip when you can trade around currency degradation!! au contraire-- things are looking very bullish for me and my investments.... HEEHEEHEEHEHE Grandpa is wise enough to know that HYPERINFLATION IS A VERY DEVIOUS ECONOMIC EVENT! It allows Grandpa to take advantage of you more often and more outwardly!! WIth a colossal debt AND govt/military/agency commitments that--come hell or high water (or nuclear holocaust)--MUST be maintained, even the dopiest of his children can see that Grandpa must position himself for torrid downdrafts in deflation and inflation, in order to take advantage of his many little ones best... (and yes then one long blast of hyperinflation/devaluations/war in the finale HAAAUUUhauuu hhauuu heehee--it would warm his heart so, for Grandpa to stick around to see that conflagration!!).. For his 300 million little ones, it will surely mean misery, but they should remember that Grampa with his stocks and commodities is on the other side of the trade... so whatever agony they may face (and they certainly will face agony--- F*CK YOU my dearest little ones!), they should at least take pleasure knowing that grandpa delights in it!! Have a ride on my train, while it carries commodities across the country to ports in the west to ship to the highest bidder!! Jump on board for a train ride kiddies... ill chase you from car to car heheheeeheheheehe if you please me , and go slow enough that i can pursue , ill give you a squeeze right after i catch my breath and wipe my sweat-fogged glasses. Do u suffer from Grandpa's too-eager clawings?? Well-- my little ones-- Grandpa does that because he is VERY bullish on this majestic sh*thole mommy and daddy once called America .... HEEheeheeheah and never forget that Gramps in his infinite wisdom always looks out for your best interests! Come along now... all aboard grandpas hellride!!!!
I worked for Trillium for a short period of time, during which the 2006 problem occurred. Having worked at another prop shop after Trillium, all prop shops use quote stuffing. Most traders I know call the massive orders intended to push the price around without getting filled "juice". Getting hit on your juice was bad. Juice the book, get your trade off, cancel your juice. It is not limited to Trillium, and not even exclusively an HFT phenomenon. Humans are just as good at juicing books.
As for the 2006 problem (which actually occurred in late 2004/early 2005), it was NASDAQs fault. Trillium was the scapegoat. NASDAQ started a pilot program where people could start putting in orders extremely early, around 7:15 am, and orders were prioritized solely based on time, and orders would then execute at the market price. So you could cross a stock $100, but as long as you were first in line, you got the best price offered by the market makers when those orders started filling at 9:25, 5 minutes before the market opened to the peons. Trillium got in trouble because they created a program where you could put in an order based on the displayed price with a delta, which some traders set at $1. Well, when 100 traders in the company each set $1 deltas based on the last quote, Trillium ended up crossing lots off stocks up $100 pre market. Oops. And I hated Dan Balber, who looked and talked like Elmer Fudd.
Lastly, a prior incarnation of Trillium, (I think it went something like Datek -> Heartland ->Trillium), was busted during the rollout of SOES way back when for what the traders at Trillium called "rapid fire SOES". SOES mandated market makers to fill all orders for up to 1000 shares at the market makers displayed price, even if the market was only showing 100 shares. Rapid fire accounts were set up so that each trader had many accounts linked to his account, so he could take the market makers for far more shares than 1000, in 1000 share increments. One of the owners was banned from the securities business for life I think, and his brother took over.
Trillenium is just a starter. According to "informed informants" several of the high flying names will be soon in the headlines. That´s going to be "fun" !
Tips: tips [ at ] zerohedge.com
General: info [ at ] zerohedge.com
Legal: legal [ at ] zerohedge.com
Advertising: ads [ at ] zerohedge.com
Abuse/Complaints: abuse [ at ] zerohedge.com
Advertise With Us
Make sure to read our "How To [Read/Tip Off] Zero Hedge Without Attracting The Interest Of [Human Resources/The Treasury/Black Helicopters]" Guide
How to report offensive comments
Notice on Racial Discrimination.