Banks buy state debt, right? Well there you have it. Banks have the states over a barrel. Prosecute us and we won't by debt/muni's. Your debt service costs will break you.
Now, give us a slap on the wrist for public show. Oh say $1.37 per offense, we'll throw you a jr VP to indict and prosecute, and make him serve 12 hours community service in a homeless shelter. Well you're at it Mr. Atty General, I'd like a cup of hot coccoa with.. you know.. those crunchy toasted marshmellows on top of it. Be a good sport and get me one, would you?
Anyone who claims rule of law exists is insane or a liar. The predators-that-be and predator-class have 100% taken over everything. NO paper document means anything, any more. Zip. Zero. Nada. Nothing. Everyone in government IS a predator, unless they spend 100% of their time in a futile attempt to stop what has been happening in the USSA.
Unfortunately, the entire human race (minus some infintesimal percent) has been brainwashed to accept anything and everything that:
- looks like some form of legal document - wears some kind of official-looking uniform - carries some kind of official-looking badge or ID - claims to have some executive position in some fictitious entity - wears a suit-coat and tie, or other expensive looking wardrobe - claims authority to jam it up your butt and spin it at 10,000 rpm
The fact is... ALL the above is 100% pure unadulaterated scam, fraud, fiction, nonsense. If humans don't pull their heads out of their butts, and learn the difference between "real" and "smoke-and-mirrors", very soon it will be "game over" for the human race. And sadly, the vast majority who go down the tubes will deserve it, for allowing themselves to become massively and clinically insane (at the request and pretence of the predators-that-be and predator-class). The only solution: stop dealing with everyone in any "official capacity"... PERIOD. Only interact with real, physical, living, breathing human beings. Exchange your goods for goods they produced. Avoid all paper, all official contracts and agreements, and simply exchange goods for goods. If you absolutely must have an agreement, you and counterparty write it from scratch. Otherwise... forget it.
Everyone and everything "official" IS fraud - inherently.
Anyone who re-financed or got a loan between 2003 and 2008 has a chance their loan got smeared into MERS, and even if your loan was not sub-prime, it could have been bundled into a MBS. If you understand these acronyms, then you might understand that your title could be fucked - i.e. your non-sub-prime loan could lead to sales problems, title problems, IF your loan got bundled.
The good news is, if MERS has your loan, you could bail on your loan and maybe live there for many years without paying. The bad news is, you may not be able to sell and deliver a good title, even if you did everything by the book, put 20% down, got a prime loan, etc.
BTW, I am 'The Navigator' with the outrigger avatar, not 'Navigator', the bag man avatar. And I've been a navigator for 40 years - get a different handle.
And I've got you beat assuming you're telling the truth. I've been a professional navigator for 45 years and earned my living that way. But it's OK with me if you keep your handle with the "The" in front of it.
I agree with the substance in your post, of course.
A constitutional amendment erasing all debt, public and private. A change of heart by people up and down the wealth scale. A return to an explicit and genuinely honored gold standard for the dollar.
A constitutional amendment erasing all debt, public and private. A change of heart by people up and down the wealth scale. A return to an explicit and genuinely honored gold standard for the dollar.
Good rundown of the facts, but a failure where it counts. It doesn't point to the obvious result: a whole bunch of people should be going to jail for fraud, and a whole bunch of mortgages assignments (and hence, foreclosures) are invalid.
Instead, saying "foreclosures must go forward, but must be done within the law" is tantamount to saying "just come up with some way to paper over this and make it look legit".
i dont see how anyone leaves their house without fighting these foreclosure fraudsters ....some of us may not like the idea that some may live in their houses rent/mortgage free , but it seems to be the more just outcome
I think I know where Ossama disappeared to, he became a bankster, the biggest terrorists of all, can slam the economy of an entire country and walk away smiling with pockets full of money for the service.
If the state AGs pass on this one future historians will record it as one of the critical moments where middle america had a chance and blew it. This nation is absolutely founded on property rights; property rights cannot be maintained where there is no legal protection, and where in fact the legal system works openly against them. The capitalist system depends absolutely on property rights and the expectation of the ability to enforce them non violently in a reasonably open and fair court. This is one of many critical moments and practically no one realizes it.
When officers of the court can commit fraud against the court and the court does not take them to task for it the system has failed and declares that it does not care that it has done so. In other words, there is no court.
Every man for himself in 3....2....1....
Locke:
TO understand political power right, and derive it from its original, we must consider, what state all men are naturally in, and that is, a state of perfect freedom to order their actions, and dispose of their possessions and persons, as they think fit, within the bounds of the law of nature, without asking leave, or depending upon the will of any other man.
A state also of equality, wherein all the power and jurisdiction is reciprocal, no one having more than another; there being nothing more evident, than that creatures of the same species and rank, promiscuously born to all the same advantages of nature, and the use of the same faculties, should also be equal one amongst another without subordination or subjection, unless the lord and master of them all should, by any manifest declaration of his will, set one above another, and confer on him, by an evident and clear appointment, an undoubted right to dominion and sovereignty.
And that all men may be restrained from invading others rights, and from doing hurt to one another, and the law of nature be observed, which willeth the peace and preservation of all mankind, the execution of the law of nature is, in that state, put into every man's hands, whereby every one has a right to punish the transgressors of that law to such a degree, as may hinder its violation: for the law of nature would, as all other laws that concern men in this world 'be in vain, if there were no body that in the state of nature had a power to execute that law, and thereby preserve the innocent and restrain offenders. And if any one in the state of nature may punish another for any evil he has done, every one may do so: for in that state of perfect equality, where naturally there is no superiority or jurisdiction of one over another, what any may do in prosecution of that law, every one must needs have a right to do.
We are in very very dangerous territory here.
Men living together according to reason, without a common superior on earth, with authority to judge between them, is properly the state of nature. But force, or a declared design of force, upon the person of another, where there is no common superior on earth to appeal to for relief, is the state of war: and it is the want of such an appeal gives a man the right of war even against an aggressor, tho' he be in society and a fellow subject. Thus a thief, whom I cannot harm, but by appeal to the law, for having stolen all that I am worth, I may kill, when he sets on me to rob me but of my horse or coat; because the law, which was made for my preservation, where it cannot interpose to secure my life from present force, which, if lost, is capable of no reparation, permits me my own defence, and the right of war, a liberty to kill the aggressor, because the aggressor allows not time to appeal to our common judge, nor the decision of the law, for remedy in a case where the mischief may be irreparable. Want of a common judge with authority, puts all men in a state of nature: force without right, upon a man's person, makes a state of war, both where there is, and is not, a common judge.
Supreme Court KELO case was the beginning of the end.
Fraudclosure is the backend or follow through now that the courts have sanctioned the rights of the banks over those of individuals (primarily over tax revenues).
The housing collapse and subsequent bailouts and now fraudclosure are an unmistakable signal that the rule of law and property rights for individuals and families are dying on the vine.
"Our government... teaches the whole people by its example. If the government becomes the lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy." Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis
It's just so remarkably troubling that these concepts are so well understood historically, and yet so universally ignored by those in power.
Good post but the critical problem is this notion that middle america has a voice in these foul proceedings. It does not. The politicians are run by the "super-politicians" within them, who, in turn, have been corrupted by the banks (Spencer Bacchus said it best recently, stating that he has been elected to serve the banks), and so the banks run this whole show. I see nothing short of insurrection to change where we are - all bets are off, and to boot you've got a Vichy crowd who serve these banks and post their tripe here tirelessly. And why not? Go with the winner, they would argue, who cares about right or wrong. The American Way, they would tell you. It has not always been this way.
We here in the US now live in some weird kind of corporate controlled state - "representative government" and republics fail when all of the politicians have fallen prey to the banksters, as is so evidently the case. This all became clear when the Great Traitor Henry Paulson handed down his TARP bill, the public resoundingly rejected it, and our Congress, including Obama, voted for it.
Time to ponder where you stand in all of this. The great majority have already decided to watch American Idol and forget about it.
Very true. Unfortunately, we deal with human nature and these are things that have happened before, whereby the elite screw the poor and middle class, and it will happen again. As the Bible says, there is nothing new under the sun.
A brief update for those who had previously read my post about finding out that the note Citi claims I owe them is a fraud...an update.
More than 21 days have passed since I wrote to Citi and cited, among other codes, Texas penal code 34.24 stating that they were in possession of a fraudulent document and therefore had to release me from the note (the signature on the note is forged). They did not attempt to reply and have produced no evidence that they have the original note. I've spoke to the sheriff's dept. which said I had to make the report to the local PD. I went by and and explained my situation and the patrol officers said I needed to talk to an investigator (they didn't even bother to take a report and went so far as to say that maybe it was just a photocopying error that made the signatures look different. Losers). The investigator was out on vacation until today.
This morning I had a 30+ minute phone conversation with her explaining the situation. She didn't quite get it. She said I should talk to an attorney. I told her they were violating criminal codes and I wanted to press charges. She said they never had a case like this and didn't know what to do. She was going to call the DA's office to ask them what to do. I offered to go to the station to show her the paperwork and documents, but she said she was going to call the DA's office. I said I could e-mail her, but she declined. I rank her as just barely better than useless.
I then took a trip to the local AG office to file a complaint (the investigator told me that it might have to be an AG deal). I ended up in the "consumer protection" division. Told them the story. The lady told me "fill out this form, give us any pertinent paperwork and we will look at it." Of course, the question becomes, what do you then do? Well, it turns out, they log it in the computer system and then they either write a letter or make a phone call to the company to ask them to take action. "And if they don't respond or do anything?" I asked. "We keep them in the system and monitor them."
"That's it!?!?"
"Well, we keep track to see if there is a pattern with other consumers and if there are enough, we may launch an investigation."
"So you basically can't do anything."
"We monitor them."
So, I came home. Fortunately, the neighbor was out watering her yard and she is an assistant DA. I told her my story. She at least got it! She understood what was going on, that things were illegal, she told me to go to the DA's office to file the complaint.
Tomorrow, I will call to make sure the DA is his office (the neighbor said he had an open door policy, we will see) and pay him a little visit. She said he would likely assign it to one of the veteran DA's. Of course, she also said, "have you talked to an attorney." And the response I give is always the same "This is fraud and forgery. I'm not looking for money. I want to press criminal charges."
The saga continues. I just hope to be able to get something going before the banks get the "get out of jail free card" in their hands.
I'm trying to get the rule of law to work, wish me luck.
They did not attempt to reply and have produced no evidence
File a suit making your allegations; if they fail to reply, they will be in default and you should then ask the judge for a default judgement against them. Fireclosure default judgement in reverse. There should be some mechanism to do this. Consumer complaint groups seem to exist to prevent "consumers" from filing suits to which the big guys would have to respond in order to avoid default judgement.
Great post, and well thought out. I would say however, how many other critical moments have/will we have where we "blew it". When the fuck will enough people wake up, and say enough.
My money is on the thought that it is too late at that juncture
Simply unbelievable that there are no as in zero prosecutions for this. I guess bankers and their minions are above the law they apply to the rest of us mere mortals.
AGs are going to sweep blatant illegalities under the rug in return for a pittance.
You have to remember the one inviolable rule: no banker shall be held responsible for recklessness, poor judgement or illegal acts of any kind. Most certainly, none could ever be held accountable, much less penalized.
Anyone interested in the housing market realizes by now that houses with a clear chain of title are worth more than houses with title problems.
So...when do the lawsuits against securitizers who buy mortgages from an originating bank and proceed to destroy the home owners property value by messing up a formerly clear chain of title begin?
So long as the banks (GSEs) will loan money to purchase impaired houses and title insurance companies will insure them, then the change in value is negligible and, in all likelihood, too speculative to prove damages in court...
Apparently you haven't been following the housing market recently Mr. Macho. Take a look at the REO for sale in your area and compare the stuff that isn't selling to the stuff that is selling. I think you'll find that one difference is whether or not the title is impaired.
However...my question goes to the question of RE that isn't for sale, yet.
For example, do you know whether or not your home's title is impaired or if your originating bank sold it to a securitizer who then resold it and failed to record the transaction(s) as required by your state thereby destroying your chain of title and, to some extent, your home value? Most don't.
No. It's a material consideration for prospective buyers. People who own homes who have not yet put them up for sale probably do not know if their title has been impaired by one or more banks or securitizers. They may find out from their listing agent when (if) they put their house up for sale. If the title has been impaired by some entity and the impairment can't be resolved, the house will be hard to sell at any price.
Does your house have a clear chain of title? Do you know for sure?
So you don't care to address the inherent inconsistency in your argument? If the general homebuying public has no idea title to homes might be impaired, how does it enter into their purchasing decision for a home?
Further, practically speaking, most prospective homebuyers (and their creditors) are going to have a title insurance company perform a title search. The lienholder of record is going to be paid with the proceeds from sale... as far as most anyone is concerned, this is sufficient to absolve the lion's share of issues... which is good enough for most everyone... especially the general purchasing public who has little to no discipline when they want something.
This is why title insurance companies are starting to buck up... why insure something so inherently complicated and unknown, making risk virtually impossible to assess? Disclaimers go a decent way to mitigating liability, but those only work sofaras judges are willing to stick it to the home buyers...
Also, what fucking area do you live in where a listing agent tells sellers title to their home is impaired? Did the listing agent run its own title search? What the fuck are you talking about? Needless to say, this is not remotely the function of a listing agent, nor is it worth the risk to tell home sellers given the lack of knowledge on their part... sorry, but this makes no sense.
No, I have no idea whether the title to my home has been impaired... but, I have no issue with calling in the title insurance company to defend title should that be an issue... and I am not worried in the least about losing to a TBTF or some european municipality if either attempts to exercise any potential rights in my home court... good luck with that... nor am I worried about legislation given the cat is already out of the bag so to speak.
Prospective buyers are most certainly aware that homes with clear titles are worth more than homes with impaired titles...which is why homes with clear titles are worth more. Most buyers won't touch homes with impaired titles that can't be repaired.
Most home sellers, or owners such as yourself who are not *yet* sellers, have no idea whether or not some entity has impaired their formerly clear title and therefore may have an expectation of the homes value that is unrealistically high. They will find out if their title has been impaired when or if they list the house for sale for exactly the reason you suggest. A title company will tell them or their listing agent about the problem at some point in the selling process depending on how soon someone starts asking about the title. Since most agents are well aware of the impact of title problems, many listing agents will look into the issue at the start of the selling process rather than waste a lot of time showing and selling the home only to have it fall out of escrow due to an impaired title.
You do not order a title search until you're under contract... then, the title insurance company disclaims any issues with potential impairment through unrecorded assignments... and the listing agent sure as hell isn't going to tell a prospective buyer about any defect, especially a speculative one, given "impairment" has not been determined... and for that matter, cannot be determined...
Further, your entire premise is rested upon mere correlation... and I think, in all likelihood, you are arguing the exception of the exception and not remotely arguing the rule... the general rule is that your wife finds a home she likes and you buy it (you might grow some balls and demand a man cave), borrowing from future production to do so. Unless the inspector comes back and says the whole thing is about to fall down or the appraisal comes in at a materially different number, you're ready to rock and roll presuming your credit is OK.
" I think, in all likelihood, you are arguing the exception of the exception and not remotely arguing the rule..."
And I think, in all likelihood, that you have just realized that some entity beyond your control and with virtually unlimited legal resources compared to most homeowners, may have impaired your title without your knowledge.
Does your title insurance insure changes to your title after you purchased your house? Or does it just insure that the title you purchased had no liens or other impairments as of the date of closing?
That question is irrelevant given the exchange of homes during the "impairment period". Meaning, I purchased a home in 2008. The title I got was impaired when I purchased it and that impaired title was insured by a title insurance company. In other words, changes made subsequent to insurance issuance are irrelevant... anyone partaking in refinancing during record low rates... anyone exchanging homes since the advent of MBS already likely has an impaired title...
Title insurance simply states that title to property is vested in X person/entity and is free and clear from all liens/encumbrances other than those excluded or otherwise listed. Title insurance does not insure against subsequent liens on the property... as these could be caused by devious financial institutions or the homebuyer alike...
In short, my title is impaired, the title of any property I am likely to find to purchase is impaired, and I have no idea how you can look at data figures and determine that the key factor to home sales is whether or not title is impaired... In the future, I believe impairment will play a bigger issue as title insurance excludes more items, lenders policies dry up, and the entire process is more scrutinized... but, for now and for present home sales, you are talking out your ass (and still haven't explained the aforementioned inconsistency).
"So you don't care to address the inherent inconsistency in your argument? If the general homebuying public has no idea title to homes might be impaired, how does it enter into their purchasing decision for a home?"
There's no inconsistency Macho. Buyers see a home one way...they will be and are reluctant to buy a home with a title problem. Sellers see it differently due to, usually, a lack of knowledge...they don't usually know whether or not some entity has taken an action that impaired their title without their knowledge.
Your response to my question about your title insurance is correct but the question was meant to be a rhetorical question to think about. Since you claim to know you have an impaired title you have obviously thought about this issue despite your earlier post telling us you have no problem making a claim with your title company...so we agree.
It's not true, as you claim, that "the title to any property I am likely to find to purchase is impaired". The fact that there are houses for sale that do not have title impairments makes those with impairments worth considerably less to intelligent and experienced buyers...in fact, it may make the house unsaleable at any price.
You're correct in saying that a large percentage of houses that were sold between about 2002 and 2008 during the Bush culture of corruption were put into MERS and impaired.
Thus my original question: When do the lawsuits begin against entity's that impaired the title and therefore the value of homes?
Your question evidences the inconsistency in your argument. You contend that the prices of homes that are not thought to be impaired are greater than those perceived to be impaired and that the general buying public is aware of the impairment issue. Well, if so, then the lawsuits should have already begun... the issues determined... settlements made... etc.
Maybe you've seen a sale or two that a savvy buyer made because he/she knew the land had been tied up forever and never leveraged and decided to purchase because of the likely clear title... but this is not remotely how homesales are generally transacted. Not yet.
Further, I nor anyone else can get confirmation of impairment until we know the chain of title... this is something that I, a potential buyer, a title insurance company, or the prospective creditor of the buyer are not going to look into... a bank is going to loan the prospective buyer the money and then dump the mortgage on a GSE... by the time anyone knows any differently, the statutory period for adverse possession will likely have run and you can institute an action for quiet title... in your home court... amongst fellow citizens... while some municipality in scandanavian reindeer land tries to come collect. Good luck with that one.
PS, damages in this type of case are going to be difficult at best to prove... a lot of variables to eliminate [which you probably cannot do to determine the cost of impairment].
used to be US had that most transparent, reliable, protected property rights in the world...now we are but a third world banana republic due to the banks
I hope AGs keep fighting this and don't just take a bribe
Nice work, sir. Nice presentation. Nice thorough set of facts.
However, I think the Attorney's Generals of about every state have decided to take a bribe and a pass on this one. Hard to believe.
I hope you end up being the guy that derails any sort of settlement. Surely, these illegal practices need to be understood by anyone with a mortgage, and those responsible for criminal behavior removed from our banking industry.
Banks buy state debt, right? Well there you have it. Banks have the states over a barrel. Prosecute us and we won't by debt/muni's. Your debt service costs will break you.
Now, give us a slap on the wrist for public show. Oh say $1.37 per offense, we'll throw you a jr VP to indict and prosecute, and make him serve 12 hours community service in a homeless shelter. Well you're at it Mr. Atty General, I'd like a cup of hot coccoa with.. you know.. those crunchy toasted marshmellows on top of it. Be a good sport and get me one, would you?
Anyone who claims rule of law exists is insane or a liar. The predators-that-be and predator-class have 100% taken over everything. NO paper document means anything, any more. Zip. Zero. Nada. Nothing. Everyone in government IS a predator, unless they spend 100% of their time in a futile attempt to stop what has been happening in the USSA.
Unfortunately, the entire human race (minus some infintesimal percent) has been brainwashed to accept anything and everything that:
- looks like some form of legal document
- wears some kind of official-looking uniform
- carries some kind of official-looking badge or ID
- claims to have some executive position in some fictitious entity
- wears a suit-coat and tie, or other expensive looking wardrobe
- claims authority to jam it up your butt and spin it at 10,000 rpm
The fact is... ALL the above is 100% pure unadulaterated scam, fraud, fiction, nonsense. If humans don't pull their heads out of their butts, and learn the difference between "real" and "smoke-and-mirrors", very soon it will be "game over" for the human race. And sadly, the vast majority who go down the tubes will deserve it, for allowing themselves to become massively and clinically insane (at the request and pretence of the predators-that-be and predator-class). The only solution: stop dealing with everyone in any "official capacity"... PERIOD. Only interact with real, physical, living, breathing human beings. Exchange your goods for goods they produced. Avoid all paper, all official contracts and agreements, and simply exchange goods for goods. If you absolutely must have an agreement, you and counterparty write it from scratch. Otherwise... forget it.
Everyone and everything "official" IS fraud - inherently.
A comment on Title
Anyone who re-financed or got a loan between 2003 and 2008 has a chance their loan got smeared into MERS, and even if your loan was not sub-prime, it could have been bundled into a MBS. If you understand these acronyms, then you might understand that your title could be fucked - i.e. your non-sub-prime loan could lead to sales problems, title problems, IF your loan got bundled.
The good news is, if MERS has your loan, you could bail on your loan and maybe live there for many years without paying. The bad news is, you may not be able to sell and deliver a good title, even if you did everything by the book, put 20% down, got a prime loan, etc.
BTW, I am 'The Navigator' with the outrigger avatar, not 'Navigator', the bag man avatar. And I've been a navigator for 40 years - get a different handle.
I like Navigator just fine, thank you.
And I've got you beat assuming you're telling the truth. I've been a professional navigator for 45 years and earned my living that way. But it's OK with me if you keep your handle with the "The" in front of it.
I agree with the substance in your post, of course.
Just another day of ripping off We The People...Seriously, what will it take to correct this malady of malfeasance?
A constitutional amendment erasing all debt, public and private. A change of heart by people up and down the wealth scale. A return to an explicit and genuinely honored gold standard for the dollar.
In short, more love, less hate.
http://strikelawyer.wordpress.com/
A constitutional amendment erasing all debt, public and private. A change of heart by people up and down the wealth scale. A return to an explicit and genuinely honored gold standard for the dollar.
In short, more love, less hate.
http://strikelawyer.wordpress.com/
O/T.
I encourage all to junk Cdad, the fukker is incorrigible. Fukker junks me with no explanation. An obvious troll.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM7LR46zrQU
Be nice if he posted a trade or one.
(Fukking hoser.)
This may be time to attend FL County tax deed sales.
Excuse me Mother, for I have sinned. It has been 4 years since I attended a tax deed sale, and told those mofos it was 10 years til normalization.
Got 3 lots anyway. Guess I need 2 more parcels to get the quiet title discount.
Opps, paid 1200 in property tax so far, on top of my 5K tax deed. Now the road is being developed. Ca-ching
!Tues at the Courthouse, Cdad, and save your junks for those that give a shit.
Yep. Kill them all - not.
No way to get rid of Cdad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM7LR46zrQU
Cdad must like cats, like pedophiles like youngsters....just sayin....
Good rundown of the facts, but a failure where it counts. It doesn't point to the obvious result: a whole bunch of people should be going to jail for fraud, and a whole bunch of mortgages assignments (and hence, foreclosures) are invalid.
Instead, saying "foreclosures must go forward, but must be done within the law" is tantamount to saying "just come up with some way to paper over this and make it look legit".
Settling on such massive fraud. It's sick what these people get away with.
Everyone with a mortgage should send an email to the holder a la Gonzalo Lira's friend and ask them to "Show me the note, motherfucker!".
Better, everyone should stop paying mortgages until these blatant violations are prosecuted and those responsible go to jail.
i dont see how anyone leaves their house without fighting these foreclosure fraudsters ....some of us may not like the idea that some may live in their houses rent/mortgage free , but it seems to be the more just outcome
I think I know where Ossama disappeared to, he became a bankster, the biggest terrorists of all, can slam the economy of an entire country and walk away smiling with pockets full of money for the service.
If the state AGs pass on this one future historians will record it as one of the critical moments where middle america had a chance and blew it. This nation is absolutely founded on property rights; property rights cannot be maintained where there is no legal protection, and where in fact the legal system works openly against them. The capitalist system depends absolutely on property rights and the expectation of the ability to enforce them non violently in a reasonably open and fair court. This is one of many critical moments and practically no one realizes it.
When officers of the court can commit fraud against the court and the court does not take them to task for it the system has failed and declares that it does not care that it has done so. In other words, there is no court.
Every man for himself in 3....2....1....
Locke:
TO understand political power right, and derive it from its original, we must consider, what state all men are naturally in, and that is, a state of perfect freedom to order their actions, and dispose of their possessions and persons, as they think fit, within the bounds of the law of nature, without asking leave, or depending upon the will of any other man.
A state also of equality, wherein all the power and jurisdiction is reciprocal, no one having more than another; there being nothing more evident, than that creatures of the same species and rank, promiscuously born to all the same advantages of nature, and the use of the same faculties, should also be equal one amongst another without subordination or subjection, unless the lord and master of them all should, by any manifest declaration of his will, set one above another, and confer on him, by an evident and clear appointment, an undoubted right to dominion and sovereignty.
And that all men may be restrained from invading others rights, and from doing hurt to one another, and the law of nature be observed, which willeth the peace and preservation of all mankind, the execution of the law of nature is, in that state, put into every man's hands, whereby every one has a right to punish the transgressors of that law to such a degree, as may hinder its violation: for the law of nature would, as all other laws that concern men in this world 'be in vain, if there were no body that in the state of nature had a power to execute that law, and thereby preserve the innocent and restrain offenders. And if any one in the state of nature may punish another for any evil he has done, every one may do so: for in that state of perfect equality, where naturally there is no superiority or jurisdiction of one over another, what any may do in prosecution of that law, every one must needs have a right to do.
We are in very very dangerous territory here.
Men living together according to reason, without a common superior on earth, with authority to judge between them, is properly the state of nature. But force, or a declared design of force, upon the person of another, where there is no common superior on earth to appeal to for relief, is the state of war: and it is the want of such an appeal gives a man the right of war even against an aggressor, tho' he be in society and a fellow subject. Thus a thief, whom I cannot harm, but by appeal to the law, for having stolen all that I am worth, I may kill, when he sets on me to rob me but of my horse or coat; because the law, which was made for my preservation, where it cannot interpose to secure my life from present force, which, if lost, is capable of no reparation, permits me my own defence, and the right of war, a liberty to kill the aggressor, because the aggressor allows not time to appeal to our common judge, nor the decision of the law, for remedy in a case where the mischief may be irreparable. Want of a common judge with authority, puts all men in a state of nature: force without right, upon a man's person, makes a state of war, both where there is, and is not, a common judge.
Supreme Court KELO case was the beginning of the end.
Fraudclosure is the backend or follow through now that the courts have sanctioned the rights of the banks over those of individuals (primarily over tax revenues).
The housing collapse and subsequent bailouts and now fraudclosure are an unmistakable signal that the rule of law and property rights for individuals and families are dying on the vine.
Props to Jesse's Cafe for the quote:
"Our government... teaches the whole people by its example. If the government becomes the lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy." Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis
It's just so remarkably troubling that these concepts are so well understood historically, and yet so universally ignored by those in power.
Locke is great on this point, but the corruption of the courts is not new. It may be more pervasive than it used to be but it's not new.
http://strikelawyer.wordpress.com/2011/01/04/banks-buy-off-state-attorne...
http://strikelawyer.wordpress.com/2010/11/27/banks-and-the-courts/
Good post but the critical problem is this notion that middle america has a voice in these foul proceedings. It does not. The politicians are run by the "super-politicians" within them, who, in turn, have been corrupted by the banks (Spencer Bacchus said it best recently, stating that he has been elected to serve the banks), and so the banks run this whole show. I see nothing short of insurrection to change where we are - all bets are off, and to boot you've got a Vichy crowd who serve these banks and post their tripe here tirelessly. And why not? Go with the winner, they would argue, who cares about right or wrong. The American Way, they would tell you. It has not always been this way.
We here in the US now live in some weird kind of corporate controlled state - "representative government" and republics fail when all of the politicians have fallen prey to the banksters, as is so evidently the case. This all became clear when the Great Traitor Henry Paulson handed down his TARP bill, the public resoundingly rejected it, and our Congress, including Obama, voted for it.
Time to ponder where you stand in all of this. The great majority have already decided to watch American Idol and forget about it.
Very true. Unfortunately, we deal with human nature and these are things that have happened before, whereby the elite screw the poor and middle class, and it will happen again. As the Bible says, there is nothing new under the sun.
A brief update for those who had previously read my post about finding out that the note Citi claims I owe them is a fraud...an update.
More than 21 days have passed since I wrote to Citi and cited, among other codes, Texas penal code 34.24 stating that they were in possession of a fraudulent document and therefore had to release me from the note (the signature on the note is forged). They did not attempt to reply and have produced no evidence that they have the original note. I've spoke to the sheriff's dept. which said I had to make the report to the local PD. I went by and and explained my situation and the patrol officers said I needed to talk to an investigator (they didn't even bother to take a report and went so far as to say that maybe it was just a photocopying error that made the signatures look different. Losers). The investigator was out on vacation until today.
This morning I had a 30+ minute phone conversation with her explaining the situation. She didn't quite get it. She said I should talk to an attorney. I told her they were violating criminal codes and I wanted to press charges. She said they never had a case like this and didn't know what to do. She was going to call the DA's office to ask them what to do. I offered to go to the station to show her the paperwork and documents, but she said she was going to call the DA's office. I said I could e-mail her, but she declined. I rank her as just barely better than useless.
I then took a trip to the local AG office to file a complaint (the investigator told me that it might have to be an AG deal). I ended up in the "consumer protection" division. Told them the story. The lady told me "fill out this form, give us any pertinent paperwork and we will look at it." Of course, the question becomes, what do you then do? Well, it turns out, they log it in the computer system and then they either write a letter or make a phone call to the company to ask them to take action. "And if they don't respond or do anything?" I asked. "We keep them in the system and monitor them."
"That's it!?!?"
"Well, we keep track to see if there is a pattern with other consumers and if there are enough, we may launch an investigation."
"So you basically can't do anything."
"We monitor them."
So, I came home. Fortunately, the neighbor was out watering her yard and she is an assistant DA. I told her my story. She at least got it! She understood what was going on, that things were illegal, she told me to go to the DA's office to file the complaint.
Tomorrow, I will call to make sure the DA is his office (the neighbor said he had an open door policy, we will see) and pay him a little visit. She said he would likely assign it to one of the veteran DA's. Of course, she also said, "have you talked to an attorney." And the response I give is always the same "This is fraud and forgery. I'm not looking for money. I want to press criminal charges."
The saga continues. I just hope to be able to get something going before the banks get the "get out of jail free card" in their hands.
I'm trying to get the rule of law to work, wish me luck.
They did not attempt to reply and have produced no evidence
File a suit making your allegations; if they fail to reply, they will be in default and you should then ask the judge for a default judgement against them. Fireclosure default judgement in reverse. There should be some mechanism to do this. Consumer complaint groups seem to exist to prevent "consumers" from filing suits to which the big guys would have to respond in order to avoid default judgement.
Great post, and well thought out. I would say however, how many other critical moments have/will we have where we "blew it". When the fuck will enough people wake up, and say enough.
My money is on the thought that it is too late at that juncture
Economic martial law seems to have been in effect since August 2007. That's the only possible explanation.
"economic martial law" - very nice. It's like the marshall plan, except it's spelled different and it helps the wrong people.
"Linda Green's 'signature' appears on hundreds of thousands of mortgage assignments."
Sounds like another Betty Crocker.
Does Mr Al Kyda realize he has the wrong group in his sights? He needs to run up on mr. banksta .....not uncle
The solution is very simple. Jail time for banking perps... and as a bonus disgorgement of property gained as a result of illegal action.
Fraud lawyers need to go to jail as well.
Simply unbelievable that there are no as in zero prosecutions for this. I guess bankers and their minions are above the law they apply to the rest of us mere mortals.
AGs are going to sweep blatant illegalities under the rug in return for a pittance.
You have to remember the one inviolable rule: no banker shall be held responsible for recklessness, poor judgement or illegal acts of any kind. Most certainly, none could ever be held accountable, much less penalized.
FED gov will take care of bankstas and fraudstas alike. No one will serve time and penalties will be minimal.
Even the mushroom cloud thinks the prospects are a joke!
Anyone interested in the housing market realizes by now that houses with a clear chain of title are worth more than houses with title problems.
So...when do the lawsuits against securitizers who buy mortgages from an originating bank and proceed to destroy the home owners property value by messing up a formerly clear chain of title begin?
So long as the banks (GSEs) will loan money to purchase impaired houses and title insurance companies will insure them, then the change in value is negligible and, in all likelihood, too speculative to prove damages in court...
Apparently you haven't been following the housing market recently Mr. Macho. Take a look at the REO for sale in your area and compare the stuff that isn't selling to the stuff that is selling. I think you'll find that one difference is whether or not the title is impaired.
However...my question goes to the question of RE that isn't for sale, yet.
For example, do you know whether or not your home's title is impaired or if your originating bank sold it to a securitizer who then resold it and failed to record the transaction(s) as required by your state thereby destroying your chain of title and, to some extent, your home value? Most don't.
So, most people have no idea about whether title has been impaired, but yet it is presently a material consideration by them in home purchases... ok.
No. It's a material consideration for prospective buyers. People who own homes who have not yet put them up for sale probably do not know if their title has been impaired by one or more banks or securitizers. They may find out from their listing agent when (if) they put their house up for sale. If the title has been impaired by some entity and the impairment can't be resolved, the house will be hard to sell at any price.
Does your house have a clear chain of title? Do you know for sure?
So you don't care to address the inherent inconsistency in your argument? If the general homebuying public has no idea title to homes might be impaired, how does it enter into their purchasing decision for a home?
Further, practically speaking, most prospective homebuyers (and their creditors) are going to have a title insurance company perform a title search. The lienholder of record is going to be paid with the proceeds from sale... as far as most anyone is concerned, this is sufficient to absolve the lion's share of issues... which is good enough for most everyone... especially the general purchasing public who has little to no discipline when they want something.
This is why title insurance companies are starting to buck up... why insure something so inherently complicated and unknown, making risk virtually impossible to assess? Disclaimers go a decent way to mitigating liability, but those only work sofaras judges are willing to stick it to the home buyers...
Also, what fucking area do you live in where a listing agent tells sellers title to their home is impaired? Did the listing agent run its own title search? What the fuck are you talking about? Needless to say, this is not remotely the function of a listing agent, nor is it worth the risk to tell home sellers given the lack of knowledge on their part... sorry, but this makes no sense.
No, I have no idea whether the title to my home has been impaired... but, I have no issue with calling in the title insurance company to defend title should that be an issue... and I am not worried in the least about losing to a TBTF or some european municipality if either attempts to exercise any potential rights in my home court... good luck with that... nor am I worried about legislation given the cat is already out of the bag so to speak.
Prospective buyers are most certainly aware that homes with clear titles are worth more than homes with impaired titles...which is why homes with clear titles are worth more. Most buyers won't touch homes with impaired titles that can't be repaired.
Most home sellers, or owners such as yourself who are not *yet* sellers, have no idea whether or not some entity has impaired their formerly clear title and therefore may have an expectation of the homes value that is unrealistically high. They will find out if their title has been impaired when or if they list the house for sale for exactly the reason you suggest. A title company will tell them or their listing agent about the problem at some point in the selling process depending on how soon someone starts asking about the title. Since most agents are well aware of the impact of title problems, many listing agents will look into the issue at the start of the selling process rather than waste a lot of time showing and selling the home only to have it fall out of escrow due to an impaired title.
You do not order a title search until you're under contract... then, the title insurance company disclaims any issues with potential impairment through unrecorded assignments... and the listing agent sure as hell isn't going to tell a prospective buyer about any defect, especially a speculative one, given "impairment" has not been determined... and for that matter, cannot be determined...
Further, your entire premise is rested upon mere correlation... and I think, in all likelihood, you are arguing the exception of the exception and not remotely arguing the rule... the general rule is that your wife finds a home she likes and you buy it (you might grow some balls and demand a man cave), borrowing from future production to do so. Unless the inspector comes back and says the whole thing is about to fall down or the appraisal comes in at a materially different number, you're ready to rock and roll presuming your credit is OK.
" I think, in all likelihood, you are arguing the exception of the exception and not remotely arguing the rule..."
And I think, in all likelihood, that you have just realized that some entity beyond your control and with virtually unlimited legal resources compared to most homeowners, may have impaired your title without your knowledge.
Does your title insurance insure changes to your title after you purchased your house? Or does it just insure that the title you purchased had no liens or other impairments as of the date of closing?
That question is irrelevant given the exchange of homes during the "impairment period". Meaning, I purchased a home in 2008. The title I got was impaired when I purchased it and that impaired title was insured by a title insurance company. In other words, changes made subsequent to insurance issuance are irrelevant... anyone partaking in refinancing during record low rates... anyone exchanging homes since the advent of MBS already likely has an impaired title...
Title insurance simply states that title to property is vested in X person/entity and is free and clear from all liens/encumbrances other than those excluded or otherwise listed. Title insurance does not insure against subsequent liens on the property... as these could be caused by devious financial institutions or the homebuyer alike...
In short, my title is impaired, the title of any property I am likely to find to purchase is impaired, and I have no idea how you can look at data figures and determine that the key factor to home sales is whether or not title is impaired... In the future, I believe impairment will play a bigger issue as title insurance excludes more items, lenders policies dry up, and the entire process is more scrutinized... but, for now and for present home sales, you are talking out your ass (and still haven't explained the aforementioned inconsistency).
"So you don't care to address the inherent inconsistency in your argument? If the general homebuying public has no idea title to homes might be impaired, how does it enter into their purchasing decision for a home?"
There's no inconsistency Macho. Buyers see a home one way...they will be and are reluctant to buy a home with a title problem. Sellers see it differently due to, usually, a lack of knowledge...they don't usually know whether or not some entity has taken an action that impaired their title without their knowledge.
Your response to my question about your title insurance is correct but the question was meant to be a rhetorical question to think about. Since you claim to know you have an impaired title you have obviously thought about this issue despite your earlier post telling us you have no problem making a claim with your title company...so we agree.
It's not true, as you claim, that "the title to any property I am likely to find to purchase is impaired". The fact that there are houses for sale that do not have title impairments makes those with impairments worth considerably less to intelligent and experienced buyers...in fact, it may make the house unsaleable at any price.
You're correct in saying that a large percentage of houses that were sold between about 2002 and 2008 during the Bush culture of corruption were put into MERS and impaired.
Thus my original question: When do the lawsuits begin against entity's that impaired the title and therefore the value of homes?
Your question evidences the inconsistency in your argument. You contend that the prices of homes that are not thought to be impaired are greater than those perceived to be impaired and that the general buying public is aware of the impairment issue. Well, if so, then the lawsuits should have already begun... the issues determined... settlements made... etc.
Maybe you've seen a sale or two that a savvy buyer made because he/she knew the land had been tied up forever and never leveraged and decided to purchase because of the likely clear title... but this is not remotely how homesales are generally transacted. Not yet.
Further, I nor anyone else can get confirmation of impairment until we know the chain of title... this is something that I, a potential buyer, a title insurance company, or the prospective creditor of the buyer are not going to look into... a bank is going to loan the prospective buyer the money and then dump the mortgage on a GSE... by the time anyone knows any differently, the statutory period for adverse possession will likely have run and you can institute an action for quiet title... in your home court... amongst fellow citizens... while some municipality in scandanavian reindeer land tries to come collect. Good luck with that one.
PS, damages in this type of case are going to be difficult at best to prove... a lot of variables to eliminate [which you probably cannot do to determine the cost of impairment].
+++++++
The chain of title issue is a huge deal. Sheesh, you can't sell a car without clear title--what makes anyone think a house is any different?
Honestly, I can't believe mayors aren't screaming about the recording fees they've been cheated out of.
Let the whole fucking rotten edifice crumble - its time for a fresh start.
Very powerful piece of work
used to be US had that most transparent, reliable, protected property rights in the world...now we are but a third world banana republic due to the banks
I hope AGs keep fighting this and don't just take a bribe
its over. they are going to take the bribe, at least in my state.
4closureFraud.org,
Nice work, sir. Nice presentation. Nice thorough set of facts.
However, I think the Attorney's Generals of about every state have decided to take a bribe and a pass on this one. Hard to believe.
I hope you end up being the guy that derails any sort of settlement. Surely, these illegal practices need to be understood by anyone with a mortgage, and those responsible for criminal behavior removed from our banking industry.
CAPITAL CANNOT FORM IN BANKS AS CORRUPT AS THESE!